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FCC Move Could Shut Down High School Radio Station

Saeed al-Sahaf writes "This probably has been happening all along, maybe just not in my area. A broadcasting company bought an FM radio station in The Dalles, Oregon (a little hick town east of Portland), and wants to move it to a much choicer market in Seattle, Washington. The FCC has given the green light for the move. Problem is, the frequency in Seattle is being used by a station owned by a local high school, Mercer Island High School. The school has appealed, saying the decision ignores the FCC's own rules, and questioned the FCC's assertion that there's space available elsewhere on the Seattle-area radio dial. The school says the proposal is 'little more than an effort to migrate from a rural community to an extremely well-served urban area.' Critics of the proposal contend that the move is an attempt to tap the much larger Seattle radio advertising market."

212 comments

  1. Not an unusual request... by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Trying to relocate a radio station such that it better covers a major metro area rather than covering the subberbs on the fringe of the city is a regular event in the radio biz. The FCC originally wanted to hand out radio allocations so that small communities had stations all to themselves, but this policy has more or less outlived its usefulness as small town ad markets simply just don't exist. A station needs to be either allowed to play ball in its nearby major market, or it most likely is being rented out or sold to a 24/7 national interest which doesn't serve the small market very well anyway.

    1. Re:Not an unusual request... by EssenceLumin · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Dalles is 250 miles from Seattle and isn't a suburb of anything. It's 85 miles from Portland.

    2. Re:Not an unusual request... by zentec · · Score: 5, Informative

      This isn't necessarily true. There are still a number of small owners in very small markets that make a decent business out of serving the community. Granted, you're going to hear high school sports, and "trade-e-o", and community bulletin board and all that folksy stuff, but isn't that what serving the community of license is all about?

      Your comments that small communities had stations all to themselves isn't on point either. None of the reallocations I've been involved with had nothing to do with the smaller community not requiring the services of the station and everything to do with the new big owner (Cumulus, Clear Channel et al) wanting to push it into the market and require advertisers to buy multiple advertising packages on all stations.

      Let me tell you, you'll never hear high school sports scores or community bulletin board on a Cumulus station. You'll hear rap music being piped to farmers, but nothing of community interest.

    3. Re:Not an unusual request... by Detritus · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If the station received its license on the basis of its promise to serve Fooville, why should it be allowed to move to a nearby major market? If it can't comply with the terms of its license, it can return it to the FCC. Maybe another broadcaster, who didn't pay an inflated price for an existing station, can build and operate a profitable station in Fooville.

      I've seen this sort of thing happen several times in my local area. A big conglomerate buys a small station outside a major market for big bucks, and immediately applies to move the station to a more profitable location inside the major market. They never had any intentions of continuing to serve the community that the license was originally issued for. They just see an opportunity to gain an outlet in the major market.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    4. Re:Not an unusual request... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      If the station received its license on the basis of its promise to serve Fooville, why should it be allowed to move to a nearby major market?

      Because they can claim that Fooville is already recieving a "primary local service" from several other radio stations, so even though they were the closest station to Fooville and got their allocation in the early days by promising to serve Fooville, Fooville doesn't really need them anymore. Therefore, they want to move to Barville and provide a new "primary local serice" to them since they seem so underserved.

      The fact that the real motivation is that a new setup in Barville will give them a whole lot better signal in Capitol City, which is where they've really been trying to aim themselves at all along, is something that they can easily leave out of the FCC applications.

      The fact is, "primary local service" is a joke these days, and have been that way for a long long time. The laws of market economics have basically taken over. If there's an ad market to support a community than the market exists, otherwise it gets folded into the nearest market that is large enough to qualify.

      Afterall, ad sales is really what local service is all about in broadcasting these days. Community calendars are being left to the local newspaper, which more and more is now just some localized inserts into an otherwise regional newspaper. (In some cases, it's one title with a regional section... in other cases it's 5 co-owned papers with different titles that have their own front page, but share any story that applies to the whole area or is purely a "feature" story.)

      If the local radio market really was that viable... than MegaCorp wouldn't be able to justify coming up with enough money to get the local owner to part with his station.

    5. Re:Not an unusual request... by tybalt44 · · Score: 1

      this policy has more or less outlived its usefulness as small town ad markets simply just don't exist

      That's not quite true. There are thousands of small-town radio stations making money in the U.S.

      But because the FCC allows the stations to be moved, the market for small-town stations has changed. There is more money in selling out to a conglomerate and crying poor, garnering the FCC's blessing for a move, than staying in one place and making a lower level of profit serving the local community.

      So the big cities get served with more of the same undistinguished crap, and the small towns lose their community voices. So it goes.

  2. Do I smell evil? by irokitt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is this a ClearChannel Station?

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  3. Not for profit stations at lower frequencies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I thought most non profit stations, such as high schools and so forth were below like 90 or 91Mhz or so?

    1. Re:Not for profit stations at lower frequencies? by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      They were there, but were ordered up to 104 in the 90's.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:Not for profit stations at lower frequencies? by denisonbigred · · Score: 4, Informative

      They are. As I understand it (and I am no expert) it is because when you broadcast at lower frequencies, the signals require less power to reach a greater area, and many of these stations broadcast at 1-10 watts, rather than 5000-10000.

      --

      "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
    3. Re:Not for profit stations at lower frequencies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      No, the difference from one end of the FM band to the other is utterly negligible, as long as the antenna is optimised for your actual frequency. I assume that the FCC control radiated power, rather than the actual RF power output of the transmitter, if not, they are complete idiots.....

      If you were going down to the AM band, maybe, but you would need an enormous antenna to efficiently radiate the power, and it would be useless at night anyway. It would be quite difficult to make the power comparison between AM and FM, a major AM station (I know only of the UK, the numbers might differ elsewhere) might radiate 100Kw, so might a major FM station, but the FM transmitter will only be a few Kw, the apparent increase comes from the antenna gain (not a real power gain at all, it simply puts most of the energy where it matters, mostly horizontally), whereas the AM transmitter will be some enormous thing pumping thousands of volts into an inefficient antenna with an apparent loss, rather than gain.

      The AM transmitter should cover a radius of 50 miles or more, maybe even 100, during the day, and will not be affected significantly by most obstacles, the FM range is effectively line of sight plus a bit, depending on antenna height it may well be 50 miles in favourable terrain, but it will be affected by obstacles although remaining useable at night.

      So, you can't make a direct comparison of the effects of major frequency changes, the bit in the middle (HF) is even less amenable to simple definition of how it will behave.

      But from one end of the AM band to the other there is a 3 to 1 frequency ratio, it is far easier to get an efficient antenna at the top end, smaller wavelength, so the dimensions of an efficient antenna do not make it unaffordable. But an FM dipole is only about 1.5 metres long, who cares if it is 1.4 or 1.7, at either end of the band, it is quite immaterial to the cost. Nowadays the power transistors in the transmitter don't have much difficulty performing at the top end of the band either, at one time there would have been a decrease in electrical efficiency towards the top end because the transistor (or valve/tube) gain-bandwidth product was embarassingly low, but not nowadays.

      The ultimate limiting factor, "atmospheric" noise, is more or less constant across the FM band and is anyway quite low, so unavoidable receiver noise matters, at the bottom end of the AM band, atmospheric noise is bad, a low-noise receiver is an irrelevance, and the efficiency of a whip antenna is minimal, so all in all, FM is best, exact frequency unimportant, followed by the top end of the AM band as a poor second.

      All in all, a very complex subject, and then there is band planning, you don't want low-power stations in among the big boys, so that they are obscured by poor receiver selectivity, but that is the function of the FCC, whose reputation abroad is no better than in the US.

  4. Space on the dial? by EvanED · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...and questioned the FCC's assertion that there's space available elsewhere on the Seattle-area radio dial"

    If there's space elsewhere on the radio dial, why doesn't the other station take it?

    1. Re:Space on the dial? by irokitt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which station? According to the article, the school changed from the lower end of the dial (where most public/community radio stays) to 104.5 because the FCC told it to (in the early 90s). Supposedly they could change it back, but the FCC would have to approve, and that's provided the lower band isn't already saturated. Of course, the station that is new to the area should be the one to change frequency, because making the school change frequencies can confuse/drive away customers. The station that is moving to Seattle will be new to the locals no matter what the frequency, so it doesn't suffer a disadvantage by accepting a different frequency.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    2. Re:Space on the dial? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because that "free space" is most likely in the 88.1 to 91.9 FM educational band in which the commercial station can't move into, but the high school's station most certainly can.

      Small-signal educational stations have been put on notice that if they've got a Class D license in the commerical section of the FM band, they'd better get their act together and move into the educational band or at least admit they're small-timers ad step down to an LPFM license. This school did neither... and now the station-owners of the other 104.5 FM stations in the area have come up with a plan that pretends that the high school station doesn't exist. Guess what, since the high school never got relicensed as LPFM, they're a "secondary user" of their channel that could be squeezed out by anybody filing a primary use request... so for the purpose of this new filing by the commercial stations they don't exist.

    3. Re:Space on the dial? by johnpaul191 · · Score: 4, Informative

      well i am sure the Class A filed to cover a large area, including the small area the Class D station covered. If it's Class D then it is under 100 watts. The new commercial station is probably a few thousand watts or more, so it's harder for them to fit in the FM puzzle.
      That's why *most* Class D stations that had support fromt he School, or whomever funds them, refiled for power increases and became Class A almost 25 years ago. The station i do work at, WKDU Philadelphia, jumped to 110 Watts from 10 Watts back in 1981 to avoid being bulldozed like this. Initially back in the 70s the wording made it seem like any station under 100 Watts was toast so most little stations freaked out and applied to be 100+ watts. The situation wasn't as bad as it initially seemed, but in the end the stations that stayed Class D were told they pretty much had no squatters rights if a Class A station wanted to stomp on their broadcast area.
      I do not know the exact legal classification that makes a station Class A, but WKDU was Class A when we were 110 Watts (now 800), non-commercial and owned/operated by Drexel University. I guess it is not much more than jumping over 100 Watts? hell, we were not even stereo till about 1990.

    4. Re:Space on the dial? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

      KMIH has been an exception to the FCC rules since 1978, when after being backed by NPR and universities operating larger stations in the dedicated "educational band" from 88.1 to 91.9 got the minimum power requirement for any station in that band to keep its primary status to be 100 watts. KMIH was lucky to have survived this timeframe... dozens of similar stations got bumped out of the band when larger stations filed for upgrades leaving the smaller station with nowhere to go other than out of business.

      KMIH didn't meet its match until the 1990s when finally a larger station came forward with a plan that bumped them off their allocation. The FCC, however, was nice to them... they were given a gift in the form of being allowed to start a Class D allocation at 104.5. That represented an FCC rule being waived for them... Class D stations don't belong outside of the educational space. But, it came with a catch. Being a non-compliant grandfathered station, they were still stuck with "secondary status" which means any application for primary status would be able to bump them out of existance. The only thing that protected this station was the fact that the surronding 104.5 FM stations were owned by different owners, and none of them could really upgrade themselves without crashing into another commerical user who'd most definitely object.

      Now, when LPFM came out... there was a chance for KMIH to get themselves out of the doghouse. They could have simply filed the paperwork to convert their Class D license into an LPFM1. It turns out, they were fully compliant already and they wouldn't have had to change their technical operations at all to change status, but it'd gain them the chance to become a primary user of the space they were hanging onto so that nobody could knock them out of it. They likely didn't do that because they didn't see this kind of problem coming, or if anybody raised the posiblity they weren't able to get the school to pay the legal fees to get the paperwork done.

      So, when the surronding 104.5 FMs were able to create a plan that benefited all of them but left KMIH with no place to hide, KMIH's lease on life expired.

      When you've got a secondary allocation, you've got to beware of those things possibly happening... clearly this high school operation wasn't and that turned out to be their undoing.

    5. Re:Space on the dial? by waynelorentz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Very well put, and just what I was thinking. They KNEW this could happen because of the nature of their license. They had a secondary allocation. If other stations can get primary allocations in their service area, they too had the chance but didn't take it. Secondary means secondary.

      Sure, it's a shame to lose a signal -- especially an educational one. But there's probably very little stopping them from moving to a nice 1,000 watt AM allocation with far better coverage. Oh, the little baby DJs don't want to be on AM? Then they're not using it to learn, and shouldn't have an educational radio station. They could probably sell/trade their 10 watt FM transmitter for a 1kw AM transmitter. The only real hassle would be finding a frequency and going through all the paperwork and lawyers. And if that doesn't work, LPFM is still an option.

    6. Re:Space on the dial? by clarke1866 · · Score: 1

      Ownership is 9/10ths of the law.

    7. Re:Space on the dial? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      that is not quite true... class D has more protection than LPFM (we [KMIH] did look at the option of going that route)... we have been persuing class A status since about 1994 (look at our past filings).

      Additionaly, senator Cantwell is currently soponsering legislation to force the FCC to convert super powered class D stations (like KMIH) to class A. If you have any doubt about KMIH, just head to their website at http://x104.fm and find out what they do.

      John :)
      john@x104.fm

    8. Re:Space on the dial? by lpret · · Score: 1

      Check out their website: http://x104.fm There is no way that Blazin' Seattle's New Hip-Hop and R&B is indicative of an educational program. Their DJs are not high-school kids, and I don't think it should be given any preferential treatment. John, respond if you will...

      --
      This is my digital signature. 10011011001
    9. Re:Space on the dial? by PopeFelix · · Score: 1

      I think the poster was referring to the high school station, KMIH, not the new station.

      --

      Pope Felix the Scurrilous.
      Computer Geek by day, religious Icon by night.

    10. Re:Space on the dial? by wunderhorn1 · · Score: 1

      KDU is 800 watts? Why can't I ever pick it up outside center city/west philly?

      --
      Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
  5. content? by lawngnome · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Im unclear of the FCC's rules, but I was under the impression that a certain kind of station (rock music for example) needs to provide a reason their content should be allowed in the market and is not similar to other options...

    this may be a local thing tho...

    1. Re:content? by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      Heh, must be a local thing. Here in milwaukee we have like 6 major commercial stations, 2 rock stations... 2 adult contemp/alterna whatever stations, and 2 hip-hop/top 40 stations. Radio used to be better, but now theres one decent station left.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    2. Re:content? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you may be thinking of Canadian broadcasting

    3. Re:content? by RedSteve · · Score: 2, Informative

      The FCC stays out of the content business. It doesn't care what you broadcast, as long as you pay their fees, identify yourself once an hour, and stay away from the seven dirty words.

    4. Re:content? by pilsner.urquell · · Score: 1
      Im unclear of the FCC's rules, but ...

      If you have a semi-truck and a 40' trailer you can pick up a copy.

    5. Re:content? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      stay away from the seven dirty words.

      Hasn't Mr. Powell made that the "407 dirty words" recently?

  6. What crap! by thewldisntenuff · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This whole thing is BS, but the high school will most likely get moved around (once again, as noted by the article - yeah, I RTFA) ...

    Another example of the little guy getting his ass kicked yet again by the Powell and his idiot-brigade known as the FCC...

    1. Re:What crap! by xplenumx · · Score: 1

      Another example of the little guy getting his ass kicked yet again by the Powell and his idiot-brigade known as the FCC.

      Oh, I don't know. Mercer Island High School resides in one of the wealthiest areas of Seattle. If any high school has easy access to top lawyers, this would be the one.

    2. Re:What crap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try, but you suck too badly to get modded up.

  7. The school missed its chance to protect the slot! by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Class D stations are hanging on by a grandfather clause at this point. The FCC is handing out no more new Class D allocations, and all Class D stations have been demoted in status such that if any higher-class stations (which include all commercial stations, since Class D's are by definition non-commercial) gets an allocation that interferes with them, the Class D must cease operations.

    In short, Class D is in a phase-out period... stations in the Class D status need to get themselves moved into the dedicated educational slice of the FM band from 88.1 to 91.9, or convert their license to being LPFM station (possibly with lower power than they had before) in order to regain primary status so that nobody else can stomp on their turf.

    This poor high school hasn't acted, and now the bulldozer of several stations re-aligining themselves on "their frequency" is coming in to knock them down. Sure, changing frequencies or converting to LPFM isn't a free thing to do, but it was part of their obligations as a broadcaster to keep up with the changes in the FM band. They did nothing, and if they can't afford to get themselves onto a safe channel then that's there problem. They clearly had a chance to do so when LPFM came out, and they passed...

  8. high school channel? by hellmarch · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    exactly how interesting is a high school channel?

    "in kinda important news timmy j. got first in the 400m track race. now onto teacher's lounge gossip..."

    if the change goes through i don't think anyone will really miss it after a couple of weekend without it.

    Make $5250 Guaranteed!!! All you need is a PayPal account and $25. We'll do the rest. Click here to find out how.

    1. Re:high school channel? by gui_tarzan2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It doesn't matter how interesting the high school radio station is. What matters is that the students are learning the trade. My high school (I graduated in 1981) has had a broadcasting station for about 30 years. It has helped many students interested in radio and tv production and the local community which also houses Central Michigan University. Not exactly a small market although nothing like NY or LA.

      --
      Have you hugged your penguin today?
    2. Re:high school channel? by hellmarch · · Score: 0

      if its not interesting no one listens. if no one listens there's no need to be actually on the air. a simulated broadcast would be just as effective.

    3. Re:high school channel? by gui_tarzan2000 · · Score: 1
      You're missing my point - a high school radio station is a class, just like any other vocational class. It doesn't matter if it's only received inside the building or if it's available to the public. It's a teaching station, a learning experience so when the kids go out in the real world they have a clue what they're doing. Unlike most people at NPR stations...

      --
      Have you hugged your penguin today?
  9. My Rights Online by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whatever decision is eventually made in this dispute, I hope it protects "my rights online" -- somehow.

    It would be bad if my rights were somehow jeopardized by some high-school vs. commercial radio station dispute in distant Washington state. Bad indeed.

    1. Re:My Rights Online by jb.hl.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It would be bad if my rights were somehow jeopardized by some high-school vs. commercial radio station dispute in distant Washington state. Bad indeed.

      Don't you get it?

      The point is that the FCC is letting large corporations control the airwaves to the detriment of the public (i.e schools). They are prioritising the big and wealthy over the little guy. It doesn't affect your rights online, but holy fuck does it affect your rights.

      Put it this way: say that a large corporation wanted your domain name, which coincides with the name for one of their new products. Also say that your web host willingly handed the domain over to them, without giving you a say in the matter. You'd be crying "OMGWTF THE HOSTS TOOK AWAY MY NAME AND GAVE IT TO PROCTER AND GAMBLE!!!111". I think you'd have a right to be pissed then. Same thing here.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    2. Re:My Rights Online by Kohath · · Score: 0, Troll

      I guess you have to hate corporations a lot to "get it". Hate isn't really my thing.

    3. Re:My Rights Online by jb.hl.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess you have to hate corporations a lot to "get it". Hate isn't really my thing.

      Once again, you missed the clue train. Time for a repeat pickup...

      IT ISN'T ABOUT HATING CORPORATIONS. I don't hate corporations as a concept (I hate some corporations: AOL, Gat^H^H^HClaria, News Corp, Daily Mail) as a lot of corporations have given the world great shit. What it is about is prioritising those with plenty of sway and cash to back it up over those who have less money which can **HINT** be donated to certain parties which **HINT** employ someone who is the father of **HINT** the chairman of the FCC. It's also symbolic: it's David vs Goliath, but this time Goliath has some kickass ninjas and a few other Goliaths on his side too. End result: David gets squashed.

      Sorry if that turned ranty :)

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    4. Re:My Rights Online by mc6809e · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The point is that the FCC is letting large corporations control the airwaves to the detriment of the public (i.e schools).

      Apparently a good deal of public values what the corporations provide. Maybe you don't value it, but many people do.

      If people really valued this radio station so much, where is the money? I've found it's easy for people to claim such and such is the greatest thing, but when they are asked to pay for it, suddenly it's less important.

      The fact is most of the public likes what you and I would consider crap and that means most of the resources are going to go to providing them with their crap.

      That doesn't mean what the public wants is somehow objectively worse than what we want. We have different values. But, should we given resources, airwaves and otherwise, disproportionately?

      They are prioritising the big and wealthy over the little guy. It doesn't affect your rights online, but holy fuck does it affect your rights

      The problem is that "the little guy" mostly doesn't give the public the crap it wants and the wealthy do.

      If you want to be one of those wealthy people, you need to provide people with the crap they want, like Beanie Babies, or Public Storage, or fatty Hamburgers, or Britney Spears' T&A, or shiney Chrome rims for SUV's.

      The fact is that the animals mostly make the world go round and stations like ClearChannel are giving them what they want. Shouting "NO!" isn't going to change that.

    5. Re:My Rights Online by __aanebg9627 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It isn't about hating corporations, it *is* about the danger of graft and corruption, and that those with money can unfairly change the rules our democracy lives by in order to gain power and more money.

      That kind of thing can (and has) lead to tyranny and the end of a republic when it is allowed to spread unchecked. Don't belive me? Read Rubicon by Tom Holland for a "case study".

    6. Re:My Rights Online by Kohath · · Score: 1

      So, rather than hate, it's about prejudice against "those with money". I see.

    7. Re:My Rights Online by __aanebg9627 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's that the rules of governance should apply to all of us fairly, and that money should not corrupt the process. The slide from republic into tyranny happens when the citizens do not fight those things, and the elites use them to increase their power. What's so hard to understand about that?

    8. Re:My Rights Online by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So this is another 'big bizness bad' rant discussion and it's on YRO because that's Timmuh's hobby: ranting about big bad bizness.

      You still didn't explain how this relates to 'online' except in an extremely peripheral way.

      --
      resigned
    9. Re:My Rights Online by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      This is modded up as insightful???? Let me get this straight, if rights are infringed but the infringing doesnt effect you directly you dont care? interesting, then I'll remember that the next time your rights are infringed and they dont affect me directly. Its not a question of whether your rights are being infringed or not, its about rights in general. Any infringement on rights of any kind sets a precedent and allows easier infringement of other rights later. You are a fool to beleieve what you do, that if it doesnt affect you it doesnt matter.

      Ever heard the old saying about the holocaust: First they came for the gays, but I didnt care and said nothing 'cause I wasnt gay... Then they came for the jews, but I didnt care and said nothing 'cause I wasnt a jew... Then they came for the gypsies and I didnt care and said nothing 'cause I wasnt a gypsie...When they came for me there was no-one left to say anything or even care......

      be careful what you choose not to care about....
      --Aaron

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    10. Re:My Rights Online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, rather than hate, it's about prejudice against "those with money". I see.

      No, it's about prejudice against "those who take bribes from those with money to screw over those without money".

      I would call you a filthy troll, but I'm trying to stay away from the hatred thing, and it's always possible you're merely an idiot.

    11. Re:My Rights Online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I'm appointed dictator, you can bet that everyones vote is going to count thusly: one dollar = one vote according to how much you choose to contribute in taxes.

    12. Re:My Rights Online by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      Hate isn't really my thing.

      Get with the program! Hate is what makes the world revolve. It's the lubricant of civilization. Take politics for example. Without hate, then people might actually have to think before they vote. And we certainly can't have that!

      Yup, hate is what divides us, and keeps us a controllable populace.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    13. Re:My Rights Online by lewp · · Score: 1

      I could use some Britney Spears T&A.

      --
      Game... blouses.
    14. Re:My Rights Online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I strongly doubt that most people would be willing to pay for commercial radio if they were given the choice. They're not, because it's paid for by advertising, which means a sizable percentage of the dollars they spend every day on goods and services - many of them essential. Choice really doesn't enter into that at all, and as a result the free market argument basically falls apart.

      People mostly haven't a clue how much stuff costs or what it really involves, and they like it that way. Make an argument on that basis and you might score some valid points. But you're barking up the wrong tree here.

    15. Re:My Rights Online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When will people learn? Democracy doesn't work!

  10. Same thing happened in my area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A college radio station was pre-empted because a major new york radio station wanted the frequency. The college refused to move and put up a fight against the FCC, which fined them for various "other" violations.

    The taxpayers ended up flipping the bill because of the greedy commercial radio station and the hard nosed college administrators. The FCC is a bunch of corrupt people buyable by whoever has the most money. it just goes to show that the US government is corrupt.

    1. Re:Same thing happened in my area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was talking with my faeces and it tells me the same thing happened in the magical toilet kingdom underneath the sewers/septic systems deep within the ground.

    2. Re:Same thing happened in my area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the FCC is in the last C. "commission". Not deparment, not bureau.

    3. Re:Same thing happened in my area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, what do you expect? The FCC's head is the son of Colin "bitch" Powell, so the FCC is not about to do anything in the interest of the people. Incidentally, The Dalles is quite far from Hickston, with a metro population of over 16,000. Of course to some cosmopolitan buttfucker like the son of republican bitch 16,000 is just the number of soldiers you send to their mutilation/death for your own personal jollies so I'm just showing how much of a "hick" I am.

  11. What! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You mean to tell me an agency of the United States government is putting corporate interests before the public's interests?

    I never thought I'd live to see the day!

    1. Re:What! by Radon+Knight · · Score: 1
      You mean to tell me an agency of the United States government is putting corporate interests before the public's interests?

      I never thought I'd live to see the day!

      No kidding! Next thing you know, they'll be giving out tax breaks to the rich!

    2. Re:What! by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

      In this case, it just turns out that the corporate interests had the resources to dot all the I's and cross all the T's on their application... and take advantage of the fact that the public group missed the chance they had to turn in their Class D license for a LPFM1 license that would have blocked this move.

      Failing to do that when the LPFM classes were created basically left this station exposed. Any non-commerical interest could have taken their license away simply by proposing an LPFM1 station on their channel. The commerical stations didn't exactly want any LPFM1 station to form there... so they pulled out their mapping software and created a plan that got upgrades for all of them and locked-out the posiblity of there being a 104.5 FM where KMIH stands and submitted it.

      The FCC's mode as a bureaucracy kicks in, and has to approve this plan because Class D's that are under 100 watts have no protection from competiting plans.

    3. Re:What! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding! Next thing you know, they'll be giving out tax breaks to the rich!

      Well, at least we can be sure they won't go launching any invasions. There are limits, after all!

    4. Re:What! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you liberals jack off to your overgeneralizations?

    5. Re:What! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dot all the I's and cross all the T's

      Hmm. Can you dot a capital I? Or cross a capital T for that matter?

  12. Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by Psycizo · · Score: 1

    That is by far the strangest place to find a Hip Hop & R&B radio station...

    1. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by josh3736 · · Score: 1
      That is by far the strangest place to find a Hip Hop & R&B radio station...

      Considering the station is run by high school students, its not really at all strange.

    2. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it makes perfect sense. It's all the rich white kids with parents who work at Microsoft who want to 'bling-bling' it with their 16th birthday present, and Escalade with spinning rims. Get to know some Mercer Island kids, and you'll be glad you didn't grow up there.

    3. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by wankledot · · Score: 1

      You're not from seattle, are you?

      --
      My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
    4. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm from MI... just because the general family is in the high upper class doesn't mean we don't listen to hip hop or R&B, strange as it may be to believe.

    5. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, Mercer Island is one of the wealthier communities in Seattle, chock full o' Microserfs (and not so serfs including at least one founder) sitting on inflated real estate purchased with stock options, and but a brief boat ride from Medina, home of Billy G himself.

      Given the cash & clout indirectly available to Mercer Island HS, if I were a major media corp. - or even the FCC -, I might think twice about treading on those particular toes.

      On the other hand, maybe Paul and Bill don't have a taste for hiphiprapcrap...or perhaps Michael Medved (another island resident) whipped up the rightwingers to crush the negative influence of such musical fare ?

      As for the Dalles, I'll point out that the area is world-famous for its nuclear windsurfing on the Columbia. But since so few /.er's ever leave the confines of their darkened gaming lairs, its not surprising none are aware of it.

    6. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by jinushaun · · Score: 1

      The best alternative to the crap they play on KUBE and KISS. Too bad reception is horrible outside of Seattle.

    7. Re:Hip Hop radio station on Mercer Island? by raodin · · Score: 1

      No, the best alternative to the crap they play on Seattle radio stations is a CD player.

  13. The best for the public by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FCC and most federal agencies work on the opinion that the largest income intake from licensing and taxation is the best way to serve the public. Sadly this only benifits the largest markets eliminates any minority services and ends with a homoginized beaurocracy controled competetive monopoly market.

  14. Bitches by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WTF!? If they are moving the station then when it gets to the new location it will be a new station! Why would they need to keep the old frequency?? this is total bullshit and just prooves how fucking sold out the FCC is, not just to the self-righteous nutcases who think Janet Jackson should be sent to prision, but also to the selfish assholes who want to stop at nothing but total domination of the radio spectrum. Wouldnt be surprised if before long they want to re-assign air-traffic control and emergency services onto one frequency because britney spears is more important!

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Bitches by martinX · · Score: 1

      Maybe they haven't figured out that they can change the frequency they're transmitting on by twiddling dial #3 on the board...

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    2. Re:Bitches by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      Is that a metaphore for something!?

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    3. Re:Bitches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hate to be a pedant, but I think you mean "euphemism".

  15. This is hypocritical but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Seattle and I have heard this high school radio station. It's complete and utter crap in my opinion. They play all the heavily commercialized rap and R&B songs. We have two great radio stations in Seattle that pay little attention to commercialization of music:

    103.7 The Mountain plays all sorts of music, not just the singles everyone else plays. Furthermore, they don't overplay songs and they aren't afraid to take risks (They played artists like Jack Johnson before anyone else caught on).

    90.3 KEXP plays almost any kind of music that has not been commercialized by the RIAA. Sometimes they play things that are a little too weird for me, but sometimes I hear a GREAT song and look it up online (they log all their playlists since you won't recognize their music from TRL).

    I doubt the radio station that is trying to displace the hich school station is as good as the two I have mentioned, but seriously, the high school station is not good at all. Also of note, Mercer Island, where the high school is, is where Washington State's most privileged families live. Mercer Island is where a 16 year old girl drover her new Audi A6 drunk and killed a child. (Not to generalize.....)

    1. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by gangien · · Score: 1

      hey now, c89.5 fm plays seattle's hottest music.

    2. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by sindarin2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hate to be a jerk, but just because you don't like their musical selection doesn't mean they should have to give up their frequency. I'm not arguing either side of the fence in this discussion, but by no means should personal preference in musical choice be used as a consideration of whether this station should give up it's piece of the spectrum. Also, regardless of where the station is, they should have a fair chance in the system.

    3. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by nvrrobx · · Score: 1

      *ahem*

      I happened to live in the Seattle area for a few years. There's one high school station that plays really great stuff (if you like dance music) - that's C89.5 FM, operated by Nathan Hale High School.

      Now, just because YOU don't like "heavily commercialized rap and R&B songs" does not mean that other people do not.

      Just because you think it's crap, does that make it right to have their license stomped on?

      Not only that, but you sound amazingly bitter that you aren't from Mercer Island. Did you grow up in Preston or something?

    4. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 1

      They blew their fair chance in the system by not properly maintaining their license, i.e. converting to LPFM.

      It sounds like a rich-kid station thing from the grandparent's comment. It's tenuous to claim they're an 'underserved community.'

      --
      resigned
    5. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by linzeal · · Score: 1

      As long as they don't take out my favorite College radio station I don't care. Who the hell listens to radio anyways?

    6. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by MaufTarkie · · Score: 1

      I grew up in the Seattle area, but moved elsewhere after college... and I miss C89. I make a point of listening to it every time I visit Seattle. Sometimes I even break down and listen to it over the Interweb.

      My local area has crap. I don't listen to broadcast radio anymore, and nothing like C89 exists in my market. Thank goodness for the Internet.

      --
      Without you I'm one step closer to happiness without violence.
    7. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      but yet again, his testimony would temper the argument that the Big Bag Overcommercialized Clear Channel Crap Station is moving in on the Little Guy Playing Local Music In The Spirit of Brotherhood and Harmony, which i can see being made in the forums. He's just pointing out that Seattle isn't losing NPR or thoughtful selections on the local college station -- that perhaps the change of radio stations will not be a detriment to the community.

    8. Re:This is hypocritical but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ok, get your facts correct, she wasn't 16, and she wasn't in an audi A6, it was a benz, and there were no children killed. you have the whole thing wrong. reading this thread is like watching a rumor spread. i suggest you look at the rules that the FCC has, and X104's postings with the FCC. DO RESEARCH BEFORE YOUR BITCH!
      nickj

  16. Actually this change... by Chordonblue · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...might do some good! :P

    "...KMCQ's {the nasty corporate commercial station} Web site says the station plays adult contemporary music and uses local announcers. KMIH (The 'hi skool', yo} plays hip-hop and R&B."

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:Actually this change... by rspress · · Score: 1

      Most High School radio stations don't operate under the same rules as the commercial stations. The are usually granted secondary status on the frequency they are assigned. Since they are secondary and do not have to follow all of the same procedures and rules set forth for commercial stations, if push comes to shove they will have to be the ones that either go off the air or move their frequency.

      It may sound unfair but the free market should get priority over a government run broadcast station.

    2. Re:Actually this change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally don't believe this will do any good - I'm originally FROM The Dalles, and personally KMCQ was the only station worth listening to in the town (everything else is Country, which I personally abhor). As a native listener of the existing KMCQ I personally would prefer that this move NOT take place.

      This has actually been in the works for a couple of years now - so seeing it crop up on Slashdot == aBigSuprize for me.

    3. Re:Actually this change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may sound unfair but the free market should get priority over a government run broadcast station.

      The high school != the government. High schools are not run by faceless men in suits on the other side of the fucking continent; the FCC, on the other hand, is.

      Yes, it sounds unfair to me. If you want to convince me that the "free market" is more deserving of the frequency, maybe you'd like to back up your assertion with some sort of argument?

  17. So instead of the FCC shutting them down... by emcron · · Score: 5, Funny

    We'll take care of their site with a thorough slashdotting :-)

    1. Re:So instead of the FCC shutting them down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmph. Amazingly, all of the sites are still up. Memorial Day weekend affecting people in the US, probably.

    2. Re:So instead of the FCC shutting them down... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Better yet, let's all tune in to the radio station. We'll have so many radios tuned in that we'll crash their transmitter tower. Think of it: a distributed denial-of-radio attack.

      (oh, wait)

  18. Wishful thinking by Bill_Royle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This high school doesn't stand a chance. Other than state lotteries and tribal casinos, frequency negotiations are about as corrupt as it gets.

    The FCC hasn't been a useful tool of airwave management for a long time, evidenced by their refusal to allow cell/wifi devices on planes. Now there's wifi capability on some planes, but only through the carrier... and do you think that those carriers have figured out some way to isolate that signal that regular industry hasn't? No, it's just that there is money involved, and noone has put forward an ample attack for consumers.

    Planning commissions are almost as bad, but at least there's an appearance of more public deliberation for those.

    Good luck to that HS, but the chances are slim. My bet is that they'll be left scratching their heads, saying "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

    1. Re:Wishful thinking by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 1

      and do you think that those carriers have figured out some way to isolate that signal that regular industry hasn't?

      This is topic-drift, but I am more confident in an air carrier implementing a managed, tested cell/wifi system on board their planes than I am in an ad-hoc 'anything goes' system where anybody rich enough to have a handheld of some sort can just jam away.

      --
      resigned
    2. Re:Wishful thinking by Blrfl · · Score: 1

      Now there's wifi capability on some planes, but only through the carrier... and do you think that those carriers have figured out some way to isolate that signal that regular industry hasn't?

      Why yes, they have. It's called having a device capable of radiating no more than 100 mW RMS into a low-quality omnidirectional antenna enclosed in an aluminum can moving at well over 500 miles per hour at an altitude of 39,000 feet. If you've invented something that can reliably, repeatably make an off-the-shelf Wi-Fi card communicate with a network of access points on the ground under those conditions, call me. We'll make a buttload of money together.

      The FCC doesn't allow mobile phones on planes because they were licensed as a land mobile service based on a petition from the people with a buck to make: the future cellular companies. If they were thinking ahead when they petitioned the FCC, they'd have included provisions for airborne operation.

    3. Re:Wishful thinking by Naffer · · Score: 1

      I may be completely wrong but I had heard that one of the reasons that cell phones aren't allowed on planes has to do with the fast moving high altitude phones being unneccesarily demanding on the system that coordinated the passing of a cell phone signal from tower to tower as you move.

    4. Re:Wishful thinking by green1 · · Score: 1

      If you talk to people in civil aviation (small planes instead of the big commercial stuff) you'll find many of them leave their cell phones on when flying, this is ok for several reasones, they're moving slower and at lower altitude than something like a 737, they know that there is an extrememly slim chance of the phone interfering with anything, they know that even if it does interfere, it won't take them long to find their phone in their pocket and turn it off, and lastly, they know that they don't make any money off installing special "air phones" in the seatbacks...

      The major reasons you can't use a phone airborne are because it will cause problems for the cell system as it will see MANY towers at once and changing between them so frequently, the airlines and the cell phone companies make lots of money off those air phone things, and lastly they want to play it safe rather than sorry with all the electronics on board, now I can't really blame them for the last one, but it seems that a little testing would probably prove to them how harmless a cellphone really is...

    5. Re:Wishful thinking by Blrfl · · Score: 1

      That's a small factor, but it isn't what drives the rule.

      The whole cellular concept relies on having a limited number of channels and re-using them to cover a wide area. Each base station is allocated a number of channels to use in fielding mobile calls. (How a channel is defined depends on which mobile service is in use, but for simplicity's sake, think of them in terms of TV channels.) Each base station is designed to have an artificially-limited coverage area, achieved through a combination of low power, low antenna height and, in some cases, tailored radiation patterns. The base station's coverage area is called a "cell." Cells overlap a bit, and because of that, adjacent cells can't use the same channels without stepping on each other's calls. A channel can be re-used as long as the two base stations using it are far enough apart that there's no risk of interference.

      An airborne handset screws that whole model right into the ground. Its altitude gives it a much larger coverage area than one on the ground. Inside that larger area, there are might be many cells assigned to a channel. If one base station fields the handset's call, all of the other cells that can "see" it would be forced to abandon use of the same channel until the call ends or moves out of range. At very high altitudes, it's likely a single handset could "see" an entire metropolitan area, and the loss of capacity that would result is simply unacceptable. (If you were a carrier, would you like to have 100 of your cells lose, say, 5% of their capacity?)

      So, the FCC has rules that forbid the use of mobile phones in the air, and cellular carriers contractually bind their subscribers to obey them. (Read the fine print. I have yet to see a contract that doesn't.)

    6. Re:Wishful thinking by spacefrog · · Score: 1

      evidenced by their refusal to allow cell/wifi devices on planes

      Huh?? That is not an FCC, nor even a government regulation. Although the airlines will often try to make it sound like an FAA regulation, the FAA's rule is that the airlines must make disable any devices that the airline believes may cause interferrence.

      When cell phones were new, and were 900 Mhz mini-microwaves with 3 watts of power and the effect on the nav system was an unknown, that was a reasonable precaution.

      20 years later and with no real evidence to conclude they are any more dangerous then my laptop, they still keep saying that. But now, the airlines make a tidy profit on those in-flight phones....

      It's no different then the movie theater not letting you bring your own drink.

    7. Re:Wishful thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Just an FYI... It would be obvious that we are not scratching our heads, the problem is there are no more frequencies in the seattle area. So far the High School station (not the high school) has spent a huge amount of donated money on trying to get a more powerful liscence, a fight which dates back years if you lookup our application history with the FCC. In fact, we are such a powerful class D that we go more than the minimum distance with a 60 dbu conture that a class A station is requried to go. Take a read of "Mercer Island School district" filings in the actual rule-making procceding, we are not sitting around with our thumbs up our asses.

      Procceding number 02-136

      John :)

  19. We're the governent. We're here to help. by katdillon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Right! Government once again using the broad law to help those who can pay for it. The little guy shouldn't have any rights? So much for government being the helpful force. Let's reduce it, reduce the FCC... we're moving to NH to start the process. The Free State Project proposes to reduce government to its constitutionally mandated limits. You can help! http://www.freestateproject.org

    Kat Dillon

  20. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by irokitt · · Score: 1

    The article made it sound like they were opposing this from the beginning. If they didn't notice their frequency was being taken until now, then I can perhaps understand it.
    I wonder if there are rules on the books that say the FCC has to notify stations when their license is about to change or if their frequency might be affected. It's not like you can find out about these proposals in the local newspaper.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  21. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Sometimes I wish Slashdot had some sort of 'issue resolved' button where, when an obviously conclusive, well-thought out post was made, the discussion could be closed.

    Seriously, there's nothing else to be said after this post.

    You may all return to your regularly scheduled lives.

  22. FCC Policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for the FCC and I know that mostly they don't get involved in these things unless you offer them a bribe. These things don't go to the chairman, but they are still pretty high up.

  23. same thing this year in Philly burbs... WHHS by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2, Informative

    it happened to WHHS Haverford HighSchool... the oldest High School radio station in the United States.....

    They too are Class D and in the way of a Class A that wants to start up somewhere in South Jersey.... The FCC rules offer them nothing much since they never became Class A. They have to yield to other stations. The only chance is for them to find another frequency to move to (not a simple or cheap thing really).

  24. I'd like to make a poll by loraksus · · Score: 1

    If you're surprised, just respond with an empty ac post (or put crap in so the filter lets you).

    --
    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  25. Bad yes, Clear Channel no by lothar97 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The station that is moving is owned by Mid-Columbia Broadcasting Inc. It looks like that Mid-Columbia only has 1 station, and 10 employees- so it's a pretty small fish compared to Clear Channel.

    Here is San Diego, we're lucky that Clear Channel can own stations in San Diego, and in Tijuana, Mexico (right across the border). We thus get double the Clear Channel, and yes, our radio sucks more than most cities.

    --

    1. Re:Bad yes, Clear Channel no by irokitt · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I know, I live in North County ;)

      Still missing 92.1, which was at least different. Kinda sad that ClearChannel owns everything around here :(

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    2. Re:Bad yes, Clear Channel no by Dever · · Score: 2, Interesting
      i remember a few years ago when i lived in north county we had Y107, and for a long time while i guess they were looking fo djs, they didn't have any! it was jut music. ok music, sometimes git ood music, but it was a beautiful change. i think it used to be modern rock Y107 from arcadia, but couldn't compete with kroq, and now it's a spanish station...

      --
      - I'd prefer not to.
    3. Re:Bad yes, Clear Channel no by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

      We thus get double the Clear Channel, and yes, our radio sucks more than most cities.

      We live in the most conservative part of the west coast, with the possible exception of Orange County. What do you expect?

      Hell, I listen to KFI 640, and it's like reading the Village Voice in comparison to KOGO 600. The only redeeming feature of KOGO is that they don't preempt Coast to Coast on weekdays like KFI now does.

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
  26. Re:Warning! On-Topic Adult Material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    If Oprah ran for President, she would kick W's ass and Kerry the Kommie also. (W is also a commie, just stupider than Kerry, btw.) No one is going to fuck with her.

  27. Parent is not OT.... by josh3736 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Mods, I'd like to take this oppertunity to point out that the parent is not really offtopic. He raises a good point, that the larger corporations (ClearChannel) are coming in and pounding the little stations into the ground. In my area, pretty much ALL the stations are ClearChannel, except for the (suprisingly good) local college channel.

  28. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take another look at the article. The high school started on 90.1, but was ordered to move to 104.5 by the FCC in the early 1990's.

  29. Re:We're the governent. We're here to help. by Wakkow · · Score: 1

    "Let's reduce it, reduce the FCC"

    If the FCC wasn't in this, they would have moved the tower three years ago when they first wanted to. What are the other options? This isn't a troll, I'm curious what the alternative is.

  30. Who owns the US government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FCC and just about the rest of the US government is owned by corporations. We all know that. What's the surprise?!

    1. Re:Who owns the US government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The surprise is that they put forth less and less effort into covering up the fact.

  31. This happened to my school as well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Furman University in Greenville, SC was without a radio station for about a year and a half because Clear Channel bought a station and boosted its power enough to knock us out. What's annoying is that an exec for Clear Channel is on the board of trustees for Furman. Talk about right hand not knowing what the left is doing... They promised us new equipment to make up for it, but that never materialized. Meanwhile, we were stuck without our beloved WPLS for a significant amount of time....

  32. Boycott by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The highschool students need to remember that they constitute a large and influential portion of the market this station is going after.

    If the students start keeping a weekly public list of all advertisers on the current station, and perhaps a playlist of artists as complete as can be, and boycotting where appropriate and writing letters to the advertisers, this plan will come to a halt.

  33. and guess who's responsible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the station that is kicking them is owned by Clear Channel......

    1. Re:and guess who's responsible... by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      You can't exactly fault Clear Channel for reaching over and picking up a picking up a penny that was on the ground right in front of them.

      It was a chance for Clear Channel to make money, and all they had do is to shove another station right out of their way. The smaller station's lease on life was subject to there being no other request to use their space by a larger station... the moment one showed up they were dead. Well, Clear Channel was smart enough to come up with that bigger allocation, so there they go.

      Yep, it's the kind of action that gets Clear Channel its well-deserved reputation as a bully, but having not done so would have had Wall Street yelling at them for not making money when they clearly had a chance to do so.

    2. Re:and guess who's responsible... by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      First - I ain't no lawyer. With that said...

      I'm getting really tired of seeing variations on the the claim that any publicly held company must take all actions that seem likely to make them more money, or face criticism that can devalue their stock and even lawsuits from investors.
      First, Investors whine, usually because they didn't make twice the national average for the period, and investors sue, frequently filing rediculous suits that end up having no chance of winning, whether the company acts on an opportunity or declines it. There is always someone who will second guess any action, and swear the company should have done b not a. In this case, the commercial station faces at least as much risk if they get their new location and then it doesn't do as well as projected, as if they didn't move on the percieved opportunity.
      Second, it goes against the actual letter of the law, which narrowly defines what is valid grounds for such a suit by pevious case law, and specifically includes exemptions for when the CEO or board thinks an action might violate criminal law OR civil penalties under anti-trust. Professional analysts (there are a lot of self professed 'gifted' amateurs), know that they too can get in trouble for getting too free waht are undenyabley specualtions instead of facts in the 20-20 hindsight type article.
      Third, if investors could have won some of these threatened lawsuits or influenced their corporations with various publicty campaigns, Bill Gates would have already declared a stock dividend for Microsoft every quarter starting 8 or 9 years ago, and Berkshire-Hathaway would have split shares at least five times. There were analysts and pundits advocating both of those. It took a major court case of a different kind to get MS offering dividends, and BH is still doing exactly as it damn well pleases.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    3. Re:and guess who's responsible... by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 1

      Why are you broadening the discussion into a general purpose anti-business rant?

      This station being discussed probably had options they should have taken to get off the deprecated Class D license. The LPFM upgrade that some people have been mentioning should have been acted on. Instead they just mulled along doing nothing, and the world changed around them.

      But now I've gone and drifted back on topic. Sorry.

      --
      resigned
    4. Re:and guess who's responsible... by Rangsk · · Score: 2, Informative

      I went to Haverford High School, and let me tell you that the school administration could care less about the radio station. It was primarily student run and student funded. I can tell you that any action to move from a Class D license, such as converting to Class A, would have taken far more money than the administration would be willing to even consider. I remember they recently replaced the failing tower with a brand new one, and that took years of student effort and organization, not to mention a whole lot of begging for funding. So, basically, a radio station that has been around since 1949 and primarilly run and maintained by high school students suddenly must shut down (with all the student's efforts for naught) because some corperation wants a frequency in the area that no one else has used in 55 years. Do they really think the community is going to listen to this station, after it has trounced out the highschool station that has been there as long as they can remember?

      --
      "Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." --Douglas Adams
    5. Re:and guess who's responsible... by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      1. I responded to a post that already raised the point I addressed. So why not criticize that poster for wandering off topic already. At the worst, I followed him.
      2. If you go back and reread the entire thread, that same mistaken point was made independantly by at least two other posters at the time I posted, and some other posters seem to be taking it very uncritically. When the same mistake keeps being promagulated as a basic truth pervading the discussion, it needs to be addressed. (Who am I kidding - Slashdotters actually reading before posting?)
      3. Just what did I say that's anti business? Stockholders can and sometimes do complain about what they feel are missed opportunities. That's a fact, not an opinion. CEOs and boards can choose to yield to any such pressure or to stick to their original aims. If a minority stockholder doesn't like that they don't have to sue, there are the (sometimes seen as old fashioned) options of voting their shares and hoping for agreement from other stockholders or selling. Those are also simply facts. Judges don't normally accept arguements based on a requirement for absolute infaliability, so many of these threatened suits don't fly. That's admittedly not absolutely always true, but as Runion said "That's the way to bet". Microsoft is an example of a company that did not bow to some stockholder's pressures on the issue of dividends. Berkshire Hathaway is a company that did not bow to some stockholder's prssures on the issue of splitting shares. Yep, Fact, and Fact. YOU see an anti-business rant in those facts.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  34. The Dalles... end of the Oregon Trail !! by green+pizza · · Score: 1

    I remember The Dalles from the game I used to play in grade school, The Oregon Trail. Some quick googling found this:
    http://www.isu.edu/~trinmich/Thedalles.html

    Apparently The Dalles is where the Oregon Trail ends and the 100 mile Columbia River rafting to the Willamette Valley began.

    BTW, did anyone else here ever play The Oregon Trail? I practically grew up with it. Version 1 on the Apple II only required 48 KB of RAM but it was crap. Version 2 was way better but I thnk it required 96 or 128 KB and used a double sided disk. The first Mac version was awesome, it even supported LAN play via AppleTalk. I recently got to play a modern version at my Mom's school... all sorts of funky pre-rendered 3D, but it was more restrictive and less fun than the original versions.

    1. Re:The Dalles... end of the Oregon Trail !! by Tezkah · · Score: 1

      Dang what in the heck Ray, how did you get syphilis?

      There's a few comics about Oregon Trail and Hirum the Blacksmith, just click next. :)

    2. Re:The Dalles... end of the Oregon Trail !! by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Around thes parts, Oregon City is the generally accepted end of the trail. There were actually two routes to get from The Dalles to Oregon City. You could go the river route, but there used to be some fierce rapids at Cascade Locks. The other way was a toll road that ran to the south of Mt. Hood.

      There's a nice interpretive center in Oregon City you might be interested in.

      I did see in the educational row at Best Buy, Broderbund updated the old Oregon Trail game.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    3. Re:The Dalles... end of the Oregon Trail !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap! I was hoping for a reference to the Oregon Trail game. I live and grew up in Oregon, and played that game all the time. My favorite part was hunting for food. It sucked when you got dysentary though.

      I kind of thought that Oregon City was the end of the Oregon trail. Maybe it forked?

    4. Re:The Dalles... end of the Oregon Trail !! by PJB71MGBGT · · Score: 1

      The argument behind The Dalles as the end of the oregon trail is that it really is the end of the -oregon trail- the options at the dalles were either rafting the columbia river (not in any way a trail) or a toll road known as the Barlowe road (and therefore also not the oregon trail) around Mt. Hood. Therfore, since neither of the routes past The Dalles were the oregon trail, the trail officially stopped there, whether people kept going west from there or no.

  35. Allocating frequencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    A low power transmitter with an antenna that is not mounted on a high tower has the most flexibility wrt its frequency. As long as there is not another station on that frequency in the immediate vicinity then there's no problem.

    A high power transmitter whose antenna is on a high tower is quite different. Interference is possible at a much longer range. ie. the commercial station has a lot less flexibility than the much smaller high school station.

    In any event, most school transmitters aren't really considered to be commercial. Confusing the market shouldn't be an issue.

  36. Mercer a suburb of Renton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Really it isn't, Mercer is just the High Class Ghetto of Renton. All the little white gangstas get dropped off at school in mercedes minivans driven by their mommies.

    "Sup-yo? the homies and I are chillin at the crib tonight, then we're gonna cruise in my dad's landrover to Bellevue Square and look for bitches, shoplift sports paraphanelia, and make jokes about Samammish High. Oh, hey, I am talking on the new cell phone I just bought with my allowance. What? how much is my allowance now? $200 a week. Ya, I want more, but Dad thinks I should work around the house for it. I am not his bitch, he can mow his own lawn. "

  37. Good Riddance by batura · · Score: 4, Informative

    I used to listen to X104 a couple of years ago (actually, when I was in High School). It used to play really interesting music, such as independent techno and dance music.

    I tuned in recently, and I all I could hear was the same generic commerical Rap/"R&B" that every other ass clown radio station in Seattle plays.

    If anyone is interested, there is another HS radio station called C89fm, run by Seattle Public Schools. It plays content similar to what x104 used to play and even has a webcast so I can listen at work.

    Its a great break from the average commerical crap radio in Seattle.

    1. Re:Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      X104 never played dance/trance like C89...

      KMIH has been Rock -> top40/chr -> top40/hip-hop

      john :)

  38. Captain Obvious by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 3, Funny
    Critics of the proposal contend that the move is an attempt to tap the much larger Seattle radio advertising market.

    Rich buyers: Hey, let's buy this station and move it to a profitable market!

    Critics: We're on to you! This is just an attempt to tap the much larger Seattle radio advertising market!

    Rich buyers (in deadpan tone): Gee. They discovered our secret.

  39. Run-ins with FCC Woes by DarkHelmet · · Score: 4, Informative
    My friend ran a pirate radio station for about 8 months, and had it shut down by the FCC back in February.

    It's really regrettable, in the sense that the Mariposa, CA area had NO rock radio station in the area. The closest station was in Fresno, and didn't get reception well, if at all, in the area.

    The station itself had a range of approximately 3 miles in any direction, which was enough for the town of about 2000 to be entertained. The only thing that was even close on the frequency was a spanish station, whose reception was incredibly poor in the radius of 20 miles from the town. Considering up there is a mostly white demographic (like 95%), I can't imagine any objection.

    The thing is, creating a radio station, thanks to the FCC and government, forces the act into a business. This was something that my friend ran out of his house. He received no donations, just overwhelming community support, especially from the 700 or so high school students that had nothing to listen to on the air.

    The crap part, is since that it's such a small town, there's no amount of advertising that would make up for the FCC fees alone. Therefore, Mariposa, CA is stuck with a country music station.

    This story is just another one that ends up frustrating me in the end. Thank you, FCC. You properly ended up making free speech available and accessible to the upper class.

    *** END RANT ***

    --
    /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
    1. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      The crap part, is since that it's such a small town, there's no amount of advertising that would make up for the FCC fees alone. Therefore, Mariposa, CA is stuck with a country music station.

      This story is just another one that ends up frustrating me in the end. Thank you, FCC. You properly ended up making free speech available and accessible to the upper class.


      If the FCC didn't shut him down, ASCAP/BMI would have chased after him for mechanical royalty fees for the music he played.

      The right to free speech doesn't mean everybody's entitled to a soap box to stand on, and the freedom of the press belongs to the people who own a printing press.

    2. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check this out! Stealing Back the Airwaves

    3. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The right to free speech doesn't mean everybody's entitled to a soap box to stand on, and the freedom of the press belongs to the people who own a printing press.

      Unless the FCC decides to shut down your printing press, or in this case radio transmitter. Got any more salient analogies, dumbass?

    4. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      While my libertarian ideals deplores the FCC's handling of the radio spectrum, I do have to take issue with one thing...

      When 95% of Mariposa listens to country music, what's the problem with having a country music station?

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    5. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      If the FCC didn't shut him down, ASCAP/BMI would have chased after him for mechanical royalty fees for the music he played.

      The right to free speech doesn't mean everybody's entitled to a soap box to stand on, and the freedom of the press belongs to the people who own a printing press.


      That's a horrid analogy. I'll agree that ASCAP wwould have been within their (legal) rights to shut him down, but comparing that to a printing press is absurd.

      I own a "printing press" right here. It's a HP Office printer that can turn out 20 pages+ per minute; and as long as I'm not reproducing copyrighted material, I have the right to print my own speech on that and distribute as I like - and the constitution and the law protects my right to do so. Hell, I own another "printing press" - and I'm "printing" on it right now in posting this - and it sees worldwide distribution, even.

      Oh, and free speech rights *do* (or _should_) mean that everyone is entitled to their own soap box - the rest of us are just as entitled not to listen to it, but taking away people's right to get on their soap box makes a mockery of what free speech was intended for - the WHOLE POINT OF FREE SPEECH WAS THAT *EVERYONE* IS ENTITLED TO SPEAK, WHETHER THEY ARE RIGHT OR WRONG, OR WHETHER THEY PISS SOMEONE ELSE OFF, whether or not it's individuals, corporations, or whomever. )

      No offense, but that analogy is just ridiculous and wrong, and trying to say that not everyone is entitled to their "soap box" flies in the face of reality (slashdot, for example).

      Sheese, LostCluster. I've followed your posts for a while, I simply can't see that you actually meant what you said. Did you?

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    6. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      "When 95% of Mariposa listens to country music, what's the problem with having a country music station?"

      Nothing... But the other 5% would like some rock to listen to.

      The fact that someone who understood this, took it upon themselves to start a pirate radio station to offer freely to those 5% is proof that if you biuld it, they will come.

      frankly this guy is as American as it gets. He was doing something for the folks who had no voice and got shot down by the fcc over a rediculous technicality of law.

      He wasnt hurting anyone, just helping a few hundred folks out in a free manner.

      And if anyone says "well what about copyrights etc" Bah. In a town where there was only a country music station.... I would think the record industry would have no problem with kids getting to hear some ROCK albums under "illegal" circumstances, where other wise they would have not have heard them at all.

      It translates to record sales.

    7. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Myopic · · Score: 1

      the upper class folks in your neighborhood listen to country music? shit, dude, i'm sorry for you.

    8. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      If you own a soap box, it's your right to stand on it and say what you want. However, if you don't have a soap box, nobody's required to give you one and you can't just take somebody else's.

      We're allowed to post on Slashdot because OSDN has invited us all here as their guests. They didn't have to do that, they're just being nice to us.

      My point is that the "right to free speech" doesn't translate into a reason why pirate radio should be allowed to operate. If you want to provide rock radio to a community that doesn't have a rock radio station, you're going to have to do it as a business because broadcast radio costs money to produce.

      My point is even if the pirate radio station went legal as a web stream, the copyright interests would still come knocking for their royalties and that'd put the kid who's just playing songs out of his CD collection out of business too. You can't just create a "radio station" unless you're able to come up with the content to fill your broadcast day.

      The right of freedom of speech is important, but I hate to see it being cheapened by people who invoke it when it just isn't valid. Far too often, the people who are yelling that they have the right to free speech are in fact in a situation where that right just doesn't cover what they wanted to do.

    9. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't live there.

    10. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. I have no problems with someone providing services for that 5%. I am not defending the FCC. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

      If you read the original post, it stated "Therefore, Mariposa, CA is stuck with a country music station." The implication, at least from my reading, is that something is wrong with Mariposa having a country music station. Please note that the quote does NOT say "stuck with only a country music station".

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    11. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      So if it wasn't for the ASCAP fees to cover the copyright issue, you'd be perfectly OK with this guy running his FM station? He owns his "printing press" (transmitter) and can say what he wants, right?

      But the FCC didn't shut him down because of royalties he wasn't paying, it shut him down because he didn't have the gov't stamp of approval for his speech (transmission) even though there was no conflict of broadcast coverage on that frequency in the area.

    12. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      Great link, AC. Thanks! No more mod points, or I'd bump you up.

    13. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      No, I'm arging the grandparent poster's point that it's the FCC limiting the radio business to corperate interests by jacking up the fees, but there's fees to run a radio station payable to places other than the FCC as well. You just can't run a non-for-profit music formated radio station unless you've got some rather deep pockets.

      Also, people think that there's no conflict of broadcast coverage because their radio can't get a station on that channel where they're standing... but that's more often than not a false sense of security. Just because there's no audible radio station at that point doesn't mean there is no signal present... there could be a signal that's just too weak to make any sense of.

      And the little pirate station has the same effect. There's a circle around the coverage area of a radio station where some splashes of the signal is still present, even though the signal isn't good enough to be useful for listeners. And, if any part of that circle touches the actual listening area of any licensed radio station, they're impacting that licensed station's operation.

      Also, people might not realize that the "capture effect" may cause their station to overpower a station that's up or down one or two ticks of the dial from them. So, even if there's no station on the exact channel they picked for 100 miles, there might be one that's +/-.2MHz from them that they're putting a dent in.

      In short, it's nearly impossible to put up a pirate stick and have it not interfere with something. If you can pull it off, then you oughta file the paperwork with the FCC to prove that you figured it out and make your operation legal...

    14. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      In regards to "You just can't run a non-for-profit music formated radio station unless you've got some rather deep pockets." have you ever heard of listener-supported radio? People will pay to have music without ads shoved in their ears.

      Other than that, the technical points you mention all have merits. However, I don't think that government regulation is the only way to solve the problems of spectrum competition. I'm not sure what other solutions might be, since I only started thinking about the issue when I saw this story. If there really wasn't any harm to what the guy was doing...why shut him down? Did another station complain of actual documentable problems? Or did some overly officious busybody stick his nose in?

    15. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      In regards to "You just can't run a non-for-profit music formated radio station unless you've got some rather deep pockets." have you ever heard of listener-supported radio? People will pay to have music without ads shoved in their ears. Such stations require corperate gifts that are almost akin to commericals, however...

    16. Re:Run-ins with FCC Woes by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      If companies are contributing to the listener-supported stations that I listen to, I've not heard about it. There are annual pledge drives, and I'll hear first names given. That's it.

  40. Description of The Dalles by po8 · · Score: 1

    Submitter wrote "...The Dalles, Oregon (a little hick town east of Portland)." Geez. I don't recommend a career in journalism, or especially PR, for anyone who would post that in a national forum. On behalf of my friends who live in The Dalles, may I suggest something more like "...The Dalles, Oregon, a rural community of around 15,000 people 80 miles east of Portland?"

    1. Re:Description of The Dalles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OH, come on, get over it. It IS a hick town, just like Salem is the hickish capital city.

      At least Amity is a good bohemian kind of town *:)

    2. Re:Description of The Dalles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amity! C'mon now, we all know that Silverton is where it's at!

    3. Re:Description of The Dalles by geomon · · Score: 1

      Amity! C'mon now, we all know that Silverton is where it's at!

      Silverton? Capitol of Mobile Home Manufacturing?

      Nah, Enterprise is where its at.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  41. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    This station has been lucky to be alive since 1978. In 1978, the minimum power requirement to be in the protected educational band from 88.1 to 91.9 got raised to 100 watts. KMIH was on 90.1 and far short of that...

    They were allowed to get by until the 1990s when the FCC ordered them to move to 104.5. But even that was a secondary allocation that has no standing to block primary requests like the one that just popped up.

    What they should have done was the moment that LPFM came out converted their station from a Class D license to an LPFM1 class license that would have locked them into a primary status on that channel, which would have caused the commerical station's plan to get denied due to interfering with a primary user. Instead, however, they're a secondary user whose signal interfering with this about-to-be-approved primary user is just going to have to get out of the way.

    The only way to have blocked this proposal was to have seen it possibly coming in the future and having taken the action to protect their station before it hit. Instead, they were seen by the commerical stations as being weak prey, and were dead the moment that the commercial interests had worked out a plan that gave them upgrades at the expense of KMIH.

    Objecting after the plan was filed is too little, too late. Their life on borrowed time is now over.

  42. The school lost before it even started by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    The winner has the money.. the school has no money so they have lost before the battle even began.

    Education takes a back seat once again.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:The school lost before it even started by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      This is Mercer Island, man. You know, the island where Bill Gates lives? It's chock full of rich white folks. They aren't hurting for cash, I can tell you that.

      They have enough money that they can afford to have a toy radio station for their kids. If they can afford that then they certainly can afford to move their radio station to the educational allocation of the radio dial (assuming there's a place for them, there).

      There's always AM, like all the other High School stations...

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    2. Re:The school lost before it even started by Kev6 · · Score: 1

      Being from Mercer Island, I would like to point out that a) Bill Gates does not live here, he lives across the lake in Medina (Paul Allen does live here though) and b) There's also a bunch of rich Asians here too.

    3. Re:The school lost before it even started by adpowers · · Score: 1

      Kev6 is right (hey, who are you Kev6?). We don't have Bill Gates, but we do have Paul Allen and a bunch of other rich Microsofties (unfortunately, it means everyone is a Microsoft whore, but I guess that is normal). We also have a lot of Boeing higher-ups. Oh, and like half of every major sports team in Seattle lives here.

    4. Re:The school lost before it even started by Babbster · · Score: 1
      Oh, and like half of every major sports team in Seattle lives here.

      Is that a very subtle complaint about dropping property values?

  43. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >Seriously, there's nothing else to be said after this post.

    Oh please. The post does not go into why the Class D change happened, who is serves, why community radio is being killed in favor of commercial radio, etc.

    Last I checked, the people owned the airwaves and the little slice they had for colleges and highschools is being systematically being pull-out in favor of more clear channel crap.

    Secondly, if you read the article you'll see the FCC asked them to move to 104.something. If the FCC didn't ask them to move, they wouldn't be having this problem.

    LPFM is largely a joke and its too late to get licenses now. A LPFM station covers a few blocks at best, especially if there are any tall buildings.

    As far as the "keeping up with the changes" comment goes, well its important to ask why and understand such changes. What if your city aldermen or state legislature decided the land you live on is too close to the freeway and the Walmart people should have it? Would you and the grandparent be quick to defend a change of law without asking the ethical questions involved? Or is it "that's the law, shut up" all the way?

    FCC is not above criticism, especially when its run by Michael Powell and the GOP.

  44. Which website is which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Judging by the websites, the High School station looks far more professional that the hicksville station. Or did they get them the wrong way round?

  45. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Moridineas · · Score: 1

    Last I checked, the people owned the airwaves and the little slice they had for colleges and highschools is being systematically being pull-out in favor of more clear channel crap.


    Did you ever stop and think why Clear Channel is succesful? Maybe it's because people listen to their stations. Everyone gets their panties up in a knot (and by everyone I mean geeks on slashdot and a handful of indie music fans) when a channel that no one listens to gets replaced by a Clear Channel station. What's the big deal, if people didn't like the stations they wouldn't listen, and no one would sell advertisements to clear channel. Not to mention, with tapes, cds, satellite radios, mp3 players, etc, there's NO shortage of music media.

  46. Strange how this quote just fits the topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Do you ever get the feeling that everything in America is completely fucked up?" - Hard Harry, Pump Up The Volume

  47. The FCC and Mercer Island (the Rock) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First they want to move the station in question a full state, from Oregon north several hundred miles to Seattle. I could possibly see moving it to Portland, but this is a real streach.

    Next, if the high schoolers really want to fight, all they have to do is to talk to their parents. Mercer Island, is located in the middle of Lake Washington and the residents are VERY well off. Paul Allen lives on the island as do a lot of the Microsoft millionairs. Bill Gates lives just north of the island. Quite a few Boeing executives in addition to at least one Senator for Washington (if I remember correctly). If they want, they (the school) have the connections to steam roll the station and make an example of them. Given that its the end of the shcool year with exams, now is the perfect time for this move on the station's part in the student body is out for the summer.

    Housing prices start around a million for a modest home....

  48. sure the FCC are usually the bad guys, but jeeze by louden+obscure · · Score: 1

    KMCQ-FM operates at 100,000 watts, but would drop in power if it were to move to Covington. KMIH-FM operates at 30 watts.

    The FCC decision also says that "there are alternate channels available" for both operations and that the areas already receive service from more than two dozen existing FM and AM stations.

    so like, what's the school's problem? it's an effin high school. the school could go part 15 inna pinch. 30 watts, jeeze, my little ramsey fm10a issa microwatt transmitter. i cover better than a 1/4 mile radius with my "toy" transmitter (i yardcast, i can take the boombox out into the backyard and listen to a shoutcast or live365 stream or my mp3s or whatever else i care to pump out of my soundcard). why does a high school need 30 watts and/or need to cover more area than the campus?
    --
    Serenity now, insanity later.
  49. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't people that live under oppressive regimes yet have the chance to escape stay? Why do those in abusive relationships not leave? They must enjoy it, right? We should take away all their other options because they're obviously not going to use them.

  50. This would all be moot if everyone did what I said by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 4, Informative

    As is the usual case, this would all be a moot argument if the whole world would set aside what it thinks it knows and let ME make all the important decisions.

    My declaration to remove all the current problems with so-called "interference" (listen up HAMs, you guys complain the most about "interference", at least on Slashdot): Software defined digital radio

    Seriously though, one of the issues that has been brought up with a software radio is that "interference" isn't what it's portrayed to be. Radio waves don't collide with one another, the way that "intereference" implies. Interference is actually an artifact of the low quality analog recievers we use to listen to radio. Their selectivity leaves a whole heckuva lot to be desired. A radio with greater selectivity (the ability to distinguish two radio boadcasts with similar carrier frequencies, even those coming form the same source) can eliminate this dated notion of interference.

    Read This Salon article on the subject and be converted to the new way of thinking about "interference". Or not :)

    P.S. This article was the subject of a previous Slashdot article.

    --
    by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
  51. This is a high school station? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does any of this have to do with high school, I ask. Have you seen this "high school" station's website? What high school activities can you identify? Do any of those DJ's look like high schoolers to you?

  52. Talk Hard! by pcraven · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but I thought 'Pump Up The Volume' was a great movie.

  53. Educational stations gave birth to radio by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    just as with the Internet, it was the efforts of educational institutions that pioneered and gave birth to radio as we know it in the late 1920s and early 1930s. The communications act of 1934 was essentially a giveaway to commercial interests, but it did, however, state that the airwaves belong to the public--a commons, if you will, and it did, as part of the compromise, carve out some of the spectrum for educational broadcasting and create special educational licensing.

    The commercial interests basically got their way. It is a crying shame that they can't be content with what they have and that they, and the FCC, are now pushing around little educational stations and generally acting as if the airwaves were private property.

    1. Re:Educational stations gave birth to radio by waynelorentz · · Score: 1

      Educational interests started radio? You must have gone to different broadcasting schools than I did. It was the commercial interests (usually newspapers) who pioneered both radio and television. Educational broadcasting didn't blossom until decades later.

      For example: The earliest station I can remember reading about is now what is known as KCBS -- a commercial station formerly known as FN as far back as 1910.

      Other early stations include:
      WTG - commerical
      3XJ - non-commerical
      WGY - commercial
      WSAJ - commercial
      2ZK - commercial
      WGI - commercial
      the list goes on, but the point is that commercial stations proliferated long before their non-commerical counterparts.

      If you wanted to be even more accurate with your statement, you'd say that it was the U.S. Military that pioneered both radio and the internet, and then commercial interests moved in. But that's another argument.

  54. the least of their problems... by louden+obscure · · Score: 2, Funny

    is their FCC skirmish. the name of the school paper is the "mercer high times."

    --
    Serenity now, insanity later.
    1. Re:the least of their problems... by adpowers · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is we have a really big drug 'problem' (problem is in quotes only because I don't necessarily believe drugs are a problem). I think the biggest 'problem' is pot. Most of the kids here have too much money and live in an unstimulating suburbia, so they resort to drugs. Three years ago a junior at the high school died because she was driving while high, went up a hill, flipped her car, and went out the windshield (no seat belt).

  55. But who is going to pay for the upgrade? by Bishop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Software defined digital radio is great. But who is going to pay to upgrade all the existing radios? Some stations are useing the same hardware they started with 50 years ago. The stations will probably continue to use that gear for another 50. An AM reciever has maybe as much as 50 cents worth of electronics in it. A FM reciever costs another 25 cents. Can a digital radio be made that cheaply?

    Reed (RTFA) may be correct about the technology, but in my view he is naive about the economics.

  56. school radio is cool by golgafrincham · · Score: 1

    yeah, fight for this. it's really cool. our school couldn't effort buying radio frequencies, so we used the pa the school band had and placed two giant speakers at the windows in the 3rd floor (no joke). our teachers and the principal were with us.

    and in every break, we did it. it was quite fun, but the coolest thing is, that some of the "djs" continued their "jobs" and are now local djs making their living from that. me not, but that's another story (y'know, this geek issue...)

    but school radio is a cool thing according to breeding.

    --
    beer as in "free beer"
    1. Re:school radio is cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did they teach you about that "Shift" key thingy in school, by any chance?

  57. Go with the station with the right motives... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its all about politics. I say go with the station that reflect the Nazi polititics of the Bush administration the closest. That way we all win. Life has never been better than right now. I love the Bush Administration. I have to say this or they will beat me....

  58. Re:We're the governent. We're here to help. by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 1

    The school-run station is the Government entity.
    The so-called 'little guy' is a tax-supported bunch of people messing around. The entity taking away their spot on the band is the non-government entity, freeing up something formerly owned and dominated by government.

    --
    resigned
  59. Who do the airwaves belong to? by inkswamp · · Score: 1
    Gees, you'd almost think that it hasn't long been established that the airwaves belong to the people not to dumb-ass corporate dweebs. As far as I'm concerned, the high school has more legal and moral claim to it than any business concerns.

    --
    --Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
  60. But they're the people's airwaves... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

    Or atleast thats what the FCC keeps telling us... Fuck the FCC. They have to go.

  61. At Ohio State.... by atheken · · Score: 1

    The student radio, after being reduced to pirate radio had to make the move to all internet streaming. CRAP! But, and I haven't listened to the station in years, you can check it out at "underground.fm"

  62. This is a really, really tough decision by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

    To support the snotty little yuppie puppies at Mercer Island High or the FM media pigs?

    Having grown up in a rural Washington town, I can honestly say that I don't have much sympathy for the yup pups. OTOH, they were there first and we're talking about giving pig media a win. I guess I'd go with the pups.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
  63. What's really sad... by Law1620 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Seattle and do listen to the hishschool station. KUBE 93.3 is the biggest hip-hop and R&B station in the Greater Seattle area. They cater to the Top 40 format so on any given day you will here the same eight songs every hour. 104.5 plays more of the underground and non-mainstream (read: GOOD) hip-hop. You barely every here commercials and hear alot of older stuff that never made in big with commercial success. It is really sad if they do bring down that station. I guess big business is where it's at.

    1. Re:What's really sad... by adpowers · · Score: 1

      Umm, I'm sorry, but x104 is good? I go to MI and am forced to listen to that station all the time in weight training. It drives me crazy. They replay the same playlist all the time (how many times do I need to hear Quarterbackin'? (zero)) and the announcers don't even know what time of day it is (saying good evening in the middle of school).

      That said, as much as I hate the radio station, it shouldn't be shut down in favor of another station moving in. Being a nerd, I have a number of colleagues who are really into the radio station. The music may suck, but it provides students with some intersting opportunities and we shouldn't be hit down by the big guy.

  64. the dalles is not a hick town!!! asshole! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sure it is small but it is more of a tourist town...don't you have to have farms to be a hick town...i think the dalles was originaly a port for goods going up the columbia and lumber coming down the river.

    stendec@gmail.com

  65. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Thats just stupid to say. Thats like saying "well black people can't vote.. and well thats the reason they werent allowed to enter the polls"

    We change things in this country by recognizing the wrong doings of our past. The fact that we can vocally express dissaproval of a law, a situation, a flavor of ice tea... is the beauty of free speech.

    Just because its law, doesnt mean its right.

    Frankly the FCC, as someone stated... Has simply taken away free speech broadcasting from average citizens and have give them to corperations and the upper class.

    How many steel welders, or under 30k a year folks get to really express their opinions on the air?

    How many DJ's get to actually play music they enjoy? How many of them get to expose new music that isnt produced, spoon fead and shoved down their throats by the record industry?

    HOw many of them do anything these days? Most just pop in a cd and press play. The mix of the week. Yay.

    The FCC for all the bullshit it spouts about the air waves being property of the citizens... Is simply nothing more than a bargaining chip they can use AGAINST the 5 corperations who own the entire broadcasting industry. The problem is, the FCC doesnt give a crap about the people, it just wants to have something to keep them in the game when dealing with corperations. Its a money thing.. not a people thing.

    As is always the case with the FCC.

  66. 15,000 is hickville? by green+pizza · · Score: 1

    What huge city did the original poster come from? Since when is a city of 15,000 people a hick town? When someone says "hicksville" I tend to picture a town of 200 - 2000 people. The type with two gas stations, a bar or two, maybe a resturant, and nothing more.

  67. learning the trade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like they ARE learning the trade, like applying for your class A license before a commercial competitor stomps on you. A hard lesson, to be sure, but not one that will be forgotten. And, fortunately, they can move into the non-commercial FM band, where they are more properly located anyway.

  68. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by waynelorentz · · Score: 4, Informative

    the little slice they had for colleges and highschools is being systematically being pull-out in favor of more clear channel crap.

    You are correct, there is a little slice set aside for colleges, high schools, religious broadcasters, and other non-commercial interests. It's 88.1 through 91.9.

    Now I'd like you to point out even ONE case where Clear Channel kicked someone out of this band. Clear Channel is not able to own a station in the non-commercial band. It's been about five years since I worked in radio, but I think I'd notice if suddenly commercial entites were allowed to have non-commerical radio stations "systematically being pull-out" (whatever that means).

    Moreover, can you document that Clear Channel/Viacom/CBS/Whatever Megalomedia is "systematically" pushing non-commercial stations off the air, or are you just making things up as you go along?

    Furthermore, how is LPFM a joke? There are dozens of LPFM stations out there working very hard to serve thier communities, and doing a fine job of it. This high school's little Class-D signal wasn't much different than a legitimate LPFM that you consider a joke. The kids have the station to learn. They don't need 100,000 watts to learn how to bulk erase a cart.

    And it's a lie to say that it's too late to get LPFM licenses now. Dozens were awarded within the last month or so. In fact, just last week WKHV-LP/Kingston and WXLJ-LP/Harwich applied for licenses to cover (if you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be posting in this Slashdot conversation). Two weeks earlier, WJSK-LP/Bartlett was granted its license to cover.

    Again, anything to back up your claims, or are you spewing rectally again?

  69. What the HS Should Do... by HerbanLegend · · Score: 1

    What this high school needs to do is arrange their equipment such that it detects the signal from the SuperStation and broadcasts the inverse wave, effectively destroying the signal for a good distance around. Sure, it won't save them, but at this point, nothing will!

  70. The FCC is only there to accept money for licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I live, I can not listen to any of the stations that I used to listen to while growing up. Although they were broadcast from other locations, they were perfectly receivable with even crappy car radios. However, every single one of them is now being trample by another licensed station from a different location. Calls to the FCC yield a response of "Too bad, you weren't supposed to be able to get that station in the first place."

    The FCC could care less that licensed broadcasters are trampling each other, or that before the second broadcaster showed up I and many others had no reception problems *EVER* receiving the first one. I now have less stations to choose from, and the majority of those left are clear channel. There's even a station that my mom used to listen to while growing up, which I could once also listen to, but is now trampled by another licensed station.

    I haven't listened to the radio in my town for at least five years now. Thanks FCC.

  71. FCC Charter by Laroue · · Score: 1

    Quite simply the FCC has ceased to fulfill a usefull function, from the peoples perspective. The original act in 1934 which created the FCC was flawed to begin with (http://www.spectacle.org/896/mistake.html) in several ways. Since that time it has ceased behaving in the public's interest and instead operates for profit.

    (http://www.wzls.net/) WZLS was a locally run
    station which the FCC decided to auction to the highest bidder. It makes for interesting reading. Over 6,000 of the locals in Asheville, NC signed a petition to save the station. This had NO affect.
    WZLS had a varied format, they would play pop, rock, country, folk, blues, almost anything that the public requested. They truely served the community and have been much missed. The station that has taken over the frequency now plays canned oldies.

    The truely sad thing, is that we have no construct in place to revoke a federal orginazations charter. I believe it should be a simple act. We can take them to court and try to modify them, but frequently that really can not accomplish what needs to happen.
    The 1934 Act specifically mandated that the FCC would act in the interest of the "public convenience, interest, or necessity."(http://www.legal-database.com/communic ations-act-1934.htm)
    Quite simply in the case of WZLS it has failed to do this.

    In my mind that means it is time to replace the FCC as an entity. Some would say that one failing is not enough, but I feel that this behaviour is such that it must addressed. I do not believe it is too much to ask that my government operate correctly. To have a known error and continue is unacceptable. Clearly the FCC is run with a "good-enough" attitude. I don't believe that "good-enough" is a good strategy for running the land of the free.

    Just my 2 cents.

    When the next constitutional congress convenes I suggest they make a simple structure for removing a governmental agency which no longer serves its charter.

    --
    #### ## Laroue ####
  72. This is nothing new.... by Newer+Guy · · Score: 1

    Class D FM stations were basically put out of business in 1980. Except in Alaska, the FCC doesn't allow new ones. Most of the class D stations converted to class A status (minimum power of 100 watts or equilavent coverage thereof) back in the mid 1908's. Some moved into the commercial band as secondary stations and one or two moved to a new FM frequency, 87.9 FM. These secondary stations can be displaced by any other station except another class D, a translator or an LPFM. And, yes more then a few were forced off the air as well.... Fortunately, as mentioned above, class D stations till have priority over translators, and this station can bump an existing translator off the air and take their frequency over if they want. They also have priority over LPFM stations. Their other possibility is to find a frequency in the reserved band where they can run 100 watts. Practically speaking, this isn't really that difficult, as you only need run the 100 watts in one direction. I know of several college FM stations on the east coast that beam a very narrow 100 watt signal straight out to sea, while running class D power in every other direction. Also, the FCC allows these stations to use "off the shelf" directional antennas made by companies like Scala and Winegard that only cost a couple hundred bucks (as opposed to a multi-thousand dollar directions that a commerical broadcaster would use). Finally, the FM band in Seattle isn't nearly as crowded as you might think; I have two rulemakings for new 6000 watt commerical stations pending in the Seattle area right now. And, when I read the report and order, the FCC said that they had found several alternate channels where this station could move to. Since it's on an island, and any interference occurring over salt water can be ignored, I'd wager that there's perhaps half a dozen places it can move to. I might even fire up my copy of RF Investigator and check it out for myself. This station should consider itself lucky, at least there are places where it can move to. I know of one class D community station in the Boston area that signed on in 1959, only to be displaced in 1990 by the third NPR station for Boston. With no place to move, they are only a memory today, leaving their town with no local radio service whatsoever.

  73. Re:The school missed its chance to protect the slo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Did you ever stop and think why Clear Channel is succesful? Maybe it's because people listen to their stations.

    Or maybe it's because their cost structure is better. Once syndicated talk-host broadcast across the whole country is far cheaper than one per small-town across mid-america.

    There's an enormous economy-of-scale in Radio; and just becasue a station is cheaper doesn't mean it's better for listeners.

    Oh the otherhand it _does_ mean it's better equiped to buy expensive spectrum.

  74. Re:We're the government. We're here to help. by katdillon · · Score: 1

    You're completely right.

  75. Re:We're the government. We're here to help. by katdillon · · Score: 1
    Here are a couple of discussions on alternative ways to handle this. They can get long, so not repeating them here. Hope this helps!

    FCC
    Microbroadcasting:

  76. Re:sure the FCC are usually the bad guys, but jeez by argent · · Score: 1

    High school and college radio stations don't and aren't supposed to just cover the campus. Unless they're a boarding school, I guess, so all the students live on-campus. :)

  77. Shhh.... by IceAgeComing · · Score: 1

    Nah, Enterprise is where its at.

    I have fond memories of biking through that area; I was part of a family-oriented club from Corvallis that would organized 10-day, 450 mile bike-camping trips around various part of OR. I hope it's as beautiful and scenici as I remember it being 20 years ago.

    1. Re:Shhh.... by geomon · · Score: 1

      I hope it's as beautiful and scenici as I remember it being 20 years ago.

      No timber, no jobs, no prospects for an expanding economic base....

      Yeah, it is still the same as it was 20 years ago. They may try to take a stab at tourism, but it is pretty far off the "beaten path" for most folks. The bikers (of the mountain variety), backpackers and cross-country skiers have tried to keep it to themselves for the last ~10 years.

      Once you get out of the High Plateau region, Eastern Oregon is pretty scenic.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  78. um yeah by rb240sx · · Score: 1

    I used to live in nearby Bellevue, and could see where the high school resides, and yet could barely recieve their radio. When I got it though, it was decent content. As far as public radio in the area, 89.5fm (Nathan Hale High School) was far superior. I'd be really pissed if that was being shut down. Its really a tradgedy when a public school's radio station is shut down for commercial interest. I don't see how it is even logical for something from Oregon to be moved to Seattle to an existing frequency. That makes no sense! Mercer Island should have enough rich asses to pay for the legal battles though. We can only hope that the fcc stops sucking.

  79. The Dalles by suparjerk · · Score: 1

    I certainly wouldn't call The Dalles a "little hick town". Nearby Hood River/Parkdale/Odell, OR is much closer to a little hick town than The Dalles is. I would much sooner label The Dalles a "disgusting ugly drug-dealing polluted air and water crackhead town". Just for the record.

    --
    I caught the Mountain Wumpus! He gave me his treasure chest ($100) to let him go free again.