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but is there any reason this is a big deal ?

Yes, AV1 is a royalty-free, efficient video codec that has good industry support. Anyone can implement AV1 without having to pay patent licensing fees, as opposed to H.264 and most especially as opposed to HEVC (aka H.265).

AV1 outperforms VP9 and as time goes on AV1 will become the dominant video codec on the web.

If MPEGLA pull their heads out of their arses and makes the codec as cheap to use as MPEG2

The problem is that it's not just the MPEG LA. It's HEVC Advance, it's Velos Media, and it's individual companies that aren't in any patent pool. There's a reason why Leonardo Chiariglione calls HEVC an unusable modern standard.

AV1 will almost certainly be as dead in the water as Theora was

Theora never had the backing AV1 has. Theora wasn't on the roadmap for YouTube and Netflix.

And yet Leonardo Chiariglione, the founder and chairman of MPEG, calls HEVC an unusable modern standard. The problem is that the licensing situation has gotten out of hand. HEVC's growth has been stunted because of it and AV1's growth will be boosted by it.

So badly that the chairman of MPEG says HEVC is unusable.

How many people will actually be using AV1?

Everyone eventually. AV1 will be the codec of choice for all web video. It outperforms the other options and doesn't have the licensing hassles of H.264 or the licensing mess of H.265. The licensing of H.265 is so bad that even the founder and chairman of MPEG, Leonardo Chiariglione, thinks MPEG probably doesn't have a future.

People will encode to H.264 for legacy devices, VP9 for current devices, and encode to AV1 for current desktops and future devices.

I agree, a link to something like this or or this all of which came from a quick google and give some basic info on mpeg 7 and mention some content ID tech would be helpful as a real source of *something* on this new standard (that I just heard of today)! Damn it editors, do your jobs!

Or you could take a look at MPEG7

This is the kind of stuff it was designed to do

Nine visual profiles have been defined in MPEG-4 Visual Version 1 [MPEG4-2]: Simple, Simple Scalable, Core, Main, N-bit, Scaleable Texture, Simple Face Animation, Basic Animated Texture, and Hybrid.

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it. If i've got this straight you're saying H.263 is a subset of MPEG4. I'm still a little confused though as I've been reading through the page linked: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standards/mpeg-4/ mpeg-4.htm, which says...

H.263 uses 'Group of Block' (macroblock) resync, and Mpeg 4 uses ' the packet approach'

H.263 also puts information on the macroblock in the header, the document says MPEG4 uses a 'picture start code'. These appear to be different and the page indicates they are used by hardware decoders to tell them apart.

Same page references H.263 using 'spatial resynchronization' which is more susceptible to errors in high motion environments (so ideal for video conference, but maybe not motor racing), and states the resync markers may not be equally spaced. The MPEG4 appears to use video packets for resync with markers in the bit stream which allows them to be equally placed. Also states MPEG4 use a second method called "fixed interval synchronization" which requires start codes and resynchronization markers to appear at 'legal' fixed interval locations in the bit stream which is not supported by H.263

H.263 packets are determined by the number of macroblocks (variable). MPEG4 is based on the number of Bits (not variable) and will spill over to the next packet if required.

Because of the major difference in macroblock vs fixed number of bits and regularly timed markers, I just cant see how H.263 can be a subset of an MPEG4 standard.

I'd appreciate any comments you (or anyone else) has.

I thought that what everyone refers to as MP3 is Layer 3, which in turn is based on ASPEC (while Layer 1/2 are based on MUSICAM).

Certainly MP3 is layer III, but since you seem to be insisting, I'll elaborate...

Instead of the "two-path" approach that you seem to be implying (e.g., layer I/II MUSICAM and layer III based on ASPEC), instead, the MPEG 1 audio standard was structured in a series complexity layers (layer I was the simplest and layer III the most complex), but they were based on the same basic 32 sub-band filterbank schema from MUSICAM. Layer III borrowed many ideas from ASPEC (most notably augmenting the sub-band filterbank with MDCT for better frequency resolution, and using huffman codes instead of fixed length codes), but really still uses the the sub-band filterbank schema rather than the ASPEC spectral transform scheme so in a sense, layer III really had many fathers. In fact it's pretty easy to see in layer III that the MDCT was really sort of grafted in over the sub-band scheme from layer I and layer II. It's a bit unfair to say that MP3 has nothing to do with MUSICAM, although like I said, FhG certainly deserves a lot of the credit and as a result has some of their IP in the standard...

Here's a press release from the Convenor that probably conveys what I was trying to say a little bit better.

Perhaps surprisingly to most people not familiar with the process, quite a bit of technical work from many companies are integrated into standards the MPEG committee produced. This is sort of collaboration is somewhat unusual for an international standards body (which often just rubber-stamps proposals from a single company). In the committee, people/companies that have good ideas (that bear out under analysis) and are willing to do the hard work to refine the ideas into practice, generally see their IP incorporated into the standard.

Of course, the view is that "FhG developed MP3" is just a sound-bite like the "US govt developed the iPod". All sound-bites have some fraction of truth and some fraction of spin. The fraction of truth is much higher in the former than the later, but like the orignal poster said, I think that gives short shrift to the many companies and individuals that contributed to making MP3 (and that's not just a political point of view about MP3, you can see it in the technical details).

However, this is /. so it's usually just easier to dumb-down into sound-bites for the fan-boys to argue about... ;^)

Of course there are open DRM standards, e.g. OMA DRM or MPEG-21, but there won't be a royalty free DRM anytime soon. It's all patented up.

If the plan was just to add games, then I would agree with you. Actually, the idea is that MPEG-4 streams will carry coded "objects" which the user can interact with. Hence MPEG-J. See http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/tutorials/koenen/ mpeg-4.htm

The question isn't if MPEG4 has those features - it doesn't. MPEG4 (DivX/XviD/others) is a compression format for video, not a wrapper (avi/ogm)

There's an interesting Bio of Robert X. Cringely on the conferencing page of the Broadcast Engineering Conference 2003. http://www.chiariglione.org/leonardo/conferences/p rograms/nab2003.htm .
He seems to be at least somewhat close to Apple, HDTV and MPEG :-) and I just decided to buy this little thingy.

If you read the MPEG-7 proposals, you'll find that there are provisions for searching based on varying granularities of characteristics of the video and audio both in metadata and within the clips themselves.

I wonder if the frameworks that these guys are developing are within the standard, or if they're going on their own to do this to sidestep patent licensing obligations?

A few links:
- Audiocoding - open source AAC codec
- MPEG-4 - MPEG 4 specification making reference to AAC

"Apple AAC" - WRONG: check out DOLBY's AAC licensing page, you'll see the list of licensing prices anyone can pay if he/she so desires and has the funds.

"[...] the problems Apple AAC [...] files do" - pure FUD: which are those problems? State them or shut up.

H.264 is an international standard from MPEG and ITU, sometimes known as MPEG-4 Part 10 or MPEG AVC (Advanced Video Codec).

And yes, if they're supporting HD DVD, they will be supporting H.264, since it's one of the required codecs for HD DVD, along with VC-9 and MPEG-2.

H.264 is an international standard from MPEG and ITU, sometimes known as MPEG-4 Part 10 or MPEG AVC (Advanced Video Codec).

And yes, if they're supporting HD DVD, they will be supporting H.264, since it's one of the required codecs for HD DVD, along with VC-9 and MPEG-2.

MP3 is MPEG-1 Layer 3 audio. Are you saying AAC is the audio compression defined by MPEG-4? I didn't think so...

Don't believe me, read for yourself:
- Apple's AAC page
- AAC licensing page
- Audiocoding - open source AAC codec
- MPEG-4

Note you may have to search for either AAC or "Advanced Audio Coding".

Now where did your hear the name Chariglione? Could it have been during the Felten dispute? (He was executive director of the SDMI standards body). This guy's a member of the industry that has sprung up, complete with lobbyists and all, trying to deliver "secure content" (read: snake oil).

If we look at what he wants it's clear that he has already chosen DRM to be the solution, and now we must find some way to make end users "accept" it. He talks a lot about "mapping traditional usage rights to the digital space" but the fact is that he's trying to replace court rulings on fair use with software. I wonder how well software will replace judges and jurors? (Remember, the preciousss "content" should at all times stay "protected") Someone please mandate "open" standards for playback devices!

He's sweet-talking, and politicians will really want to believe his promises - too bad that he's earning money from seeing DRM as the solution rather than the problem.

Apple certainly doesn't seem to have fought the MPEG-4 standard like, for example, fellow MP4IF member Microsoft did. (As an aside, Fraunhofer Institute IIS and Thomson - who hold the MP3 patents - are also in the MP4IF.) But I'd expect that the majority of the lobbying for its inclusion would have come from Dolby.

I agree that it's all about selling more Apple stuff. :)

"mp4" is here allready, as a matter of fact. However, any audio encapsulated in an MPEG-4 file that employs a bitrate higher than 64kbps is most commonly going to be MPEG-2 AAC encoded audio, and MPEG-2 AAC is nothing new. There are some fancier stuff for the lower bitrate audio streams in the MPEG-4 standard, but if you're like me, you tend to encode your music files at bitrates above 64kbps. For more information regarding MP4 (MPEG-4), see this FAQ from the Motion Picture Experts Group.

From: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standards/mpeg-4/ mpeg-4.htm

10.9MPEG-4 File Format

The MP4 file format is designed to contain the media information of an MPEG-4 presentation in a flexible, extensible format which facilitates interchange, management, editing, and presentation of the media. This presentation may be 'local' to the system containing the presentation, or may be via a network or other stream delivery mechanism (a TransMux). The file format is designed to be independent of any particular delivery protocol while enabling efficient support for delivery in general. The design is based on the QuickTime(R) format from Apple Computer Inc.

Although, to be fair, I should have said "based in part".

As opposed to the state of Microsoft, where they have standards you *can't* license.

OpenGL is open for anyone to license and implement.
DirectX is not. It is proprietary and you *have* to agree with Microsoft's vision.

In fact I am incredibly surprised you would call DirectX a standard; it is a platform tied, closed, proprietary, and controlled API.

They are the 'standard' in the sense that Microsoft, having the largest market, in supporting it and pushing it also makes it the most common API. Of course I'm sure you mean to imply that by saying the 'standards' I list aren't standards at all, but despite the fact that they have patents and licensors, I think they are still standards! (I also listed open source groups too, if that's confusing you).

MP3, MPEG4, AAC, are all defined by the ISO-MPEG group.
Firewire was created by Apple, but has it's own trade association
OpenGL has it's Architecture Review Board.
PDF is an open format, and as such a subset has been adopted by the ISO as a document interchange format and standard.
Zeroconf, as well as WebDAV, is an IETF working group. Included in that list is LDAP, Kereberos, IPv6, and DHCP.
Java is questionable, I probably should not have included it there ^^
PCI, PCI-X, USB, and AGP are all standards as well, with working groups and standards bodies.

My point is that Microsoft will take 'standards' and then change them to suit their needs, and Apple does not. If Microsoft is to become like Apple, then that means endorsing and supporting open source groups (Apache, SMB, KHTML, SSH, etc), opening the source of their own programs (IE core, OS core, etc), and using industry standards instead of rolling their own to control the market (DirectX, ActiveX, XDocs, etc).

So what is a standard? I propose that a standard is any format, API, or interface that you can license, get access to, and not worry that it is being controlled by a single organization who's wishes may differ markedly from yours. By that definition, Java definitely doesn't qualify; but also none of Microsoft's "standards" as well, while MP3, MP4, Firewire, etc, all do.

Despite them not being free, libre, or open.

Only if you tell iTunes you want AAC. My iTunes rips to MP3. The MP3s it creates can be played anywhere, including WinAMP, mpg123, and any number of portable players, such as my Zaurus PDA. There's a setting in the preferences pane.

>MPEG 4 is an ISO standard. If other player
>manufacturers don't want to use standard formats
>and instead use WMA, that's not Apple's fault.

What a load of B.S. - who told you that?

Uh, you're kidding right? MPEG-4 is very much an ISO standard, as were MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. Perhaps you should go take a look at the MPEG site at http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/index.htm, specifically this page.

Only if you tell iTunes you want AAC. My iTunes rips to MP3. The MP3s it creates can be played anywhere, including WinAMP, mpg123, and any number of portable players, such as my Zaurus PDA. There's a setting in the preferences pane.

>MPEG 4 is an ISO standard. If other player
>manufacturers don't want to use standard formats
>and instead use WMA, that's not Apple's fault.

What a load of B.S. - who told you that?

Uh, you're kidding right? MPEG-4 is very much an ISO standard, as were MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. Perhaps you should go take a look at the MPEG site at http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/index.htm, specifically this page.

Files created by iTunes are by default mp3s, but you can change that to normal AAC files. AAC has a feature that allows for DRM, so even the "locked" versions you get from the iTMS are standard AAC files with the DRM turned on. Obviously it is "volutarily enforced" by iTunes, as iTunes could just as easily authenticate any DRM AAC file it encounters.

What a load of B.S. - who told you that?

I don't know about the parent poster, but I learned it from the Moving Pictures Expert Group (ie. MPEG)