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U.S. Government Developed the iPod
ezavada writes "Engadget reports that in a speech at Tuskegee University, President Bush claims that government research developed the iPod." From the article: "While we have to gratefully acknowledge the efforts of government agencies such as DARPA in some of the fields mentioned by the President, we also feel obligated to point out the accomplishments of private companies in the US and abroad, including IBM, Hitachi and Toshiba -- not to mention the Fraunhofer Institute, which developed the original MP3 codec ..."
Que expected Bush flaming...
Al Gore invented the internet, Bush invented the iPod.
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
Because i'm almost sure that the US Military needed a way to store audio in a portable device without carrying tapes and disks around long before the iPod
And the Iraqi Government had Weapons of Mass Destruction
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Not another meme!
thinks like CCD's... and this little thing... called the internet...
Thank you President Bush.
One question-- did the government invent the word "duh" as well?
He didn't say that at all. According to the article, he said that the "the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression" and goes on to say that while the government intendeed that for one (unspecified) purpose, that "it turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod".
That's a long long way from claiming to have "invented the iPod".
This whole story is a waste of space. It doesn't even mention Ponies.
The title of the article is incorrect; the US government didn't develop the iPod. It just helped fund the development of certain technologies at various research labs and universities that private corporations picked up and further developed on.
In other news early this morning, the US government helped develop Linux. More details come later.
You can say what you want about Bush, but not that he hasn't got a sense of humour.
-- Cheers!
The bold type is mine. I doubt that the single reason that things like signal compression were funded was because it was necessary to develop the iPod. It seems like these things could be more useful in military/computer/communications/etc. spheres than in personal entertainment.
Does this sound like a (bad) joke taken out of context to anybody else? Don't we have editors for this sort of thing?
Baltika
--
http://www.pancakelane.com/
This proves my conspiracy theory. You think you're listening to music, but in reality, your brain juice is being sucked out and put to nefarious use by the CIA.
The truth is out there, my friends! Protect your precious bodily fluids!
FTFA:
"the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression."
Yes, that seems reasonable enough. The government does lots of research, much of which benefits private companies.
"They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod."
The thing about this statement, is that they don't actually state a reason. They say there was a reason, then they go on to say that the research resulted in the ipod. The result is not a reason.
The sheer vagueness and lack of point to this article makes me want to smack whoever wrote it.
Well to take it to the logical extremes, the people elected the government who decided to fund these projects with their tax dollars.
Which means I indirectly contributed about a hundredth trillionth trillionth percent to the development of the iPod... which means based on iPod sales I'm owed about $400,000 in royalties, if my calculations are correct.
1. Use your Taxe money to develop the Ipod.
.....
2. Ipod consumer pay taxes on purchases
3. Apple pay taxes on all money they've made from Ipod
4. Apple employees pay taxes on their income.
5.
6. Profits !
He didn't say "we invented the iPod". He didn't say "We invented MP3".
What he did say, according to the article, was: "the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod."
I don't think there's anything outrageous or untrue in there. And it's so short an excerpt that it's impossible to say what the overall tone of the speech was. Quite possibly this was taken out of context.
So an obviously partisan article and an inept Slashdot summary. Don't bother to read TFA.
Since this will obviously raise the spectre of the "Al Gore invented the internet" meme, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind people that Robert Kahn and Vincent Cerf (who arguably did invent the internet) have defended Gore's actual statement, with the observation that: "No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time."
--- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
Sounds like your president is really, REALLY desperate to get re-elected.
Can't wait to see the first americans holding their red,white and blue coloured iPOD into CNN cameras.
So he's only claiming the funding of research for ingredients that would eventually be used in the iPod. He's not claiming that they have developed the iPod. Sounds like press hype to me.
Sure. After God invented it, of course.
George W. Bush "invented" the iPod, and Al Gore "invented" the internet (and the Algorithm). Seems like I can't trust either side of politics at the moment!
"Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
You don't really think he was taking credit for inventing the iPod, do you? He was just trying to get a laugh from his audience.
I bet it sounds quite good too when delivered by somebody funny (not that Bush isn't funny, just not in the right way).
:) I thought Slashdot was better than this... :(
What is up with Slashdot lately ? It seems all the articles these days are just misleading headlines with little or no reference to the content of the "news" story it covers, and are designed simply to start flame wars.
I can (and do) get that sort of crap from lots of other web sites
In a private email message, Vint Cerf told me that it was true that Al Gore was instrumental in the development of the Internet. Before Mr. Gore's involvement, it was a semi-private utility known as ArpaNet and NSFNet. Mr. Gore championed the development of the private network as a public utility. This was years before Bill Gates, for example, recognized its importance.
Bush had to have said this to get a laugh. If he pulled it off and got a laugh, I'm honestly surprised. Not because I don't think it is funny - it is. I'm just really surprised to hear something so witty from the man that gave us these gems:
"Those who enter the country illegally violate the law." --George W. Bush, Tucson, Ariz., Nov. 28, 2005
"Wow! Brazil is big." --George W. Bush, after being shown a map of Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia, Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005
"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
"I can only speak to myself." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
I was in the park the other day wondering why frisbees get bigger and bigger the closer they get - and then it hit me.
..why they cost as much as a toilet seat in the pentagon.
Research leads to applications ! research leads to applications ! sensational ! cavemen were the forerunners of modern society ! cavemen invented the ipod ! unheard of !
Figures.
>not to mention the Fraunhofer Institute, which developed the original MP3 ...
>codec
Actually, a lot of the critical development was done at AT&T Laboratories, a US company.
Crediting Fraunhofer with MP3 is somewhat of a historical injustice. The standard was finalized with contributions from a dozen companies.
Come on you guys. Surely there aren't any of you left who think that Bush is anything more than a simple downhome Texan carefully selected to deflect criticism and invite ridicule? He's a _figurehead_ guys, just like Blair.
Surely you know that in tribes like Britain and America the real power will always be found _behind_ the throne and never actually on it?
Come on. You guys are smarter than that. While the inattentive are busy posting endless pro- and anti-Bush writings, are any of you watching Cheney?
"We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." Dave Clark, IETF
Ok, so we all know Bush is a moron. Next news item please. PS: Was he holding an ipod upside down?
Al Gore WAS critical in securing the funding that made the DARPA project that became the Internet possible. Historical fact.
IMO, Ipods is overrated. Personally, I like the Samsung players. Next one I purchases, I'll be looking for something that plays FLAC.
Myth: Bush is an idiot.
Fact: Bush optimized the original MP3 codec and worked with top engineers to create the ipod.
The US government supplied 'weapons of mass destruction' to Iraq and Saddam Hussain in 1988 and earlier. Imagine that...
...Yes, and in Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four "The Party" invented the airplane.
calling them part of the "Axis of Evil". Before that little gem the younger generation in Iran was probably among the most pro-western group of people in the middle east according to some reporter(The NY Times Kristoff among them). Due to demographic issues the younger generation in Iran is very large and powerful. They were seriously resisting the government and the "Islamic Revolution" However, Bush's wonderful little speech and random invasion of a neighboor killed all that.
He gave a perfect chance for the conservative Iranian government to say, "Look, these people hate you, we don't, so screw them and come to us!" And obviously people don't like being called evil and being bullied, so alas they are now rallying around the government instead of fighting it. And we have $75 a barell oil....
I have travelled around the world, and I would have to say that America used to be my favorite country....pre Bush America that is. The man and his neocon hawks have destroyed that. Now except for visiting family I really don't want to go back....
Monstar L
The mis-interpretation of Gore's words came from a dishonest political attack.
Anyone wanting to read more may be interested in a quote from Wikipedia's History of the Internet: "Funding for Mosaic [the first browser] came from the High-Performance Computing and Communications Initiative, a funding program initiated by then-Senator Al Gore's High Performance Computing Act of 1991."
Here's a quote from one of Wikipedia's articles about Al Gore: 'His [Al Gore's] statement caused no surprise at the time, and none of the journalists who covered it thought it worth including in their stories. However, two days later, the Republican Party began issuing press releases and statements denouncing Gore for claiming to have "invented the Internet".'
Another Wikipedia article about Gore quotes Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf: "...as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time."
Interesting fact: IMDB says that the character Oliver in the movie "Love Story" was partly based on Al Gore. Al Gore had been a roommate of Tommy Lee Jones, who appears in the movie.
sure thing! Great story!
I know that the wheel control of the Ipod makes it easy to scroll thorugh songs. But besides that, is there any special tech in an Ipod? I do not own one so I don't know. What so special that the President of a country would even try to take any credit for it?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
The iPod is a sucess, unlike anything that Mr Bush has ever been associated with.
...robotic lapdog party leaders; programmed to obey their owner...
, , , , , karma elon
Remember the old saying, in the land of the blind, one-eye is king. Now in what kind of land could a certified idiot be president.
I think you know the answer.
Not that the rest of the world is any better.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
George W. Bush was merely mouthing what someone else wrote, and he read on a page: "... the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression."
He knows NOTHING about those subjects.
I like how this obvious and meaningless comment gets modded +5, while the parent is modded troll.
The abuse of mod points by lefties is too funny sometimes.
I don't understand what he has to gain here. Is it a politicians job to make iPods? Not as far as I can tell. Is this what people expect him to do? No. What is his politican gain from this?
Nobody, as far as I can tell, will respond with: "Nice job, president". This won't get him any new voters (or at least, I truly hope it doesn't). It looks like a joke to me.
From the article, I get the impression Bush is almost claiming they invented all of those things entirely with the creation of an iPod in mind, which is obviously not true either. There was no foresight - the iPod was created using several of those things he mentions, sure, but those things were not created simply so an iPod could one day be made. This seems ridiculous. Surely there were far better reasons why researchers invented all the components with which the iPod was made possible - yet it's presented as if the iPod was the only goal here.
This is a strange speech. So, again, it looks like a joke to me - or possibly somebody spotted the potential for creating some internet hype here (because nobody checks facts on the internet, and any mention of apple and ipods gets lots of internet exposure) and decided to grab their 15 megabytes of fame.
Bush : Beach Boys, Beatles, let's see, Alan Jackson, Alan Jackson, Alejandro, Alison Krauss, the Angels, the Archies, Aretha Franklin, the Beatles, Dan McLean. Remember him? Hume: Don McLean. Bush: I mean, Don McLean. Hume: Does "American Pie," right? Bush: Great song. Hume: Yes, yes, great song. Unidentified male: . . . which ones do you play? Bush: All of these. I put it on shuffle. Dwight Yoakam. I've got the Shuffle, the, what is it called? The little. Hume: Shuffle. Bush: It looks like. Hume: The Shuffle. That is the name of one of the models. Bush: Yes, the Shuffle. Hume: Called the Shuffle. Bush: Lightweight, and crank it on, and you shuffle the Shuffle. Hume: So you -- it plays . . . Bush: Put it in my pocket, got the ear things on. Hume: So it plays them in a random order. Bush: Yes. Hume: So you don't know what you're going to going to get. Bush: No. Hume: But you know -- Bush: And if you don't like it, you have got your little advance button. It's pretty high-tech stuff. Hume: . . . be good to have one of those at home, wouldn't it? Bush: Oh? Hume: Yes, hit the button and whatever it is that's in your head -- gone. Bush: . . . it's a bad day, just say, get out of here. Hume: Well, that probably is pretty . . . Bush: That works, too. ( Laughter ) Hume: Yes, right.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Alas I don't like to get into political conversations, but I also don't like people smugly saying something so blatently wrong even more.
Speaking of smug, I find that people that use the word "alas" in common speech typically fit the bill. Score a point for irony.
I'll give you another 4 irony points for misspelling "blatantly wrong". That gives you 5 irony points. Use them well... unlike the moronic mods with an agenda that modded you +5 Informative.
I'm a big tall mofo.
The man with the sig - "I was in the park the other day wondering why frisbees get bigger and bigger the closer they get - and then it hit me." - doesn't see the humor in "Wow! Brazil is big"... I question your neutrality.
The US government supplied 'weapons of mass destruction' to Iraq and Saddam Hussain in 1988 and earlier.
As did the French, West Germans and Sovs.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
If any government, the german government developed MP3.
Fraunhofer is around 1/2 sponsored by the government to develop stuff; the other money is comming from direct development activities with the industry.
Bill Gates invented the iPod ;-)
The government, or more specifically your tax dollars, have developed all kinds of stuff that gets comandeered by business. Good example: Celera. They took a whole shitload of taxpayer funded data in regards to cracking the human genome and built on top of it.
Celera needs to give some credit where credit is due as does Apple. As far as Apple being "innovative" I have been enjoying watching and recording video on my 80 Gig Archos PVR for well over a year now. Apple is only successful because they discovered that marketing actually accounts for something and they are becoming masters at it. That's not evil but it is necessary. You can only cruise on the groovy hipster elitist vibe for so long until you actually have to start showing a profit for your shareholders. (Disclaimer: new iBook G4 owner just this week).
Remember the optimized version of the Fraunhofer codec done by Radium? The guy who did it was called Ignoramus... Bush's secret cracker identity has been uncovered! Impeach him now!11!! http://windows.media.player.mp3.hack.399019.crack- locator.org/
he should have been bragging about helping develop the Creative Nomad and Jukebox players that were among the first HD based portable mp3 players- there are a few earlier players, as I'm sure I'll now be told, but the Nomad was one of the first really popular ones. Of course Pinnochio doesn't know the difference, and I suspect that history will see itself rewritten to show that the iPod was the first HD based mp3 player on the market, but Creative were there first.
Now, Apple did an astoundingly good Job(s) in taking the existing clunky models and making a sleek, user friendly player out of more-or-less existing technologies, but by no means were they the inventors of the portable mp3 player.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
there's some kind of preverts everywhere
At least, that's my theory.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
Christ, you would think the editors wouldn't have posted this... :)
-w
The Swedish mathematician who proved a convergence theorem for Fourier series.
:p
2 7/0548252
without him there would be no IPOD.
That is, according to the article in
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country. "
- George W. Bush
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W. Bush
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is ' to be prepared '."
- George W. Bush
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future. "
- George W. Bush
" The future will be better tomorrow." George W. Bush
" We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- George W. Bush
" I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- George W. Bush
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe We are a part of Europe."
- George W. Bush
" Public speaking is very easy."
- George W. Bush
" A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- George W. Bush
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur. "
- George W. Bush
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- George W. Bush
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children. "
- George W. Bush
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- George W. Bush
" It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- George W. Bush
fifteen jugglers, five believers
Are you kidding me?? They can't even handle dupe postings with multiple editors and you expect them to actually READ the submissions?
It's becoming harder and harder to discern the nuggets of good stuff drowning in this sea of bullshit. You'd think with the money they make from adverts and subscribers, slashdot would at least demand some minimal amount of competence from the editorial staff...
Al Gore must be fuming over this statement. It think he thinks he invented the iPod when he was dreaming up the Internet.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
You guys forget that alot of the people that are and were in power in the middle east we helped to get there right? Bush is trying to be al gore (with his I invented the internet quotes)
Well, it' good for rightwingers like Bush to acknowledge the importance of government funding of research; in their free market fervor, right wing ideologues often forget that there is something called a "public good" (that's a technical term--look it up before you comment).
As for the iPod, Apple "invented" it in the sense of design and marketing. Almost all of Apple's underlying technology comes from elsewhere; Apple is "innovative" only in the sense of defining new product categories, not in terms of technology.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/04/20 060419-5.html
I suppose it's too much to ask that slashdotters actually read it. But I can always hope.
The latest Slashdot meme.
I think this is what Bush was trying to put into words.
a ges/mp3-technologies.gif
http://www.whitehouse.gov/stateoftheunion/2006/im
This graphic explains what Bush is talking about. Many of the components in the iPod were made possible because of basic research funded by the federal government. Much of this basic research was done at government labs, universities, and within companies with funding from the Pentagon, Department of Energy's Office of Science, National Science Foundation, etc. Hosts of other individuals and companies developed that basic research into components, but the initial funding and reseach was supported by the U.S. government.
Smaller hard drives, codecs, file compression, etc. are build on the foundation of basic reseach - much of it made possible by initial U.S. funding.
Now it is official: Bush developed the iPod and Al Gore the Internet.
Based on his sense of humor, you'd probably better invest in a bigger brain.
The US government invented the FFT?
Hehehehe, that's cute.
As for the others... well "contributed to" is better than "invented".
If I find a way to make a better tasting sugar then someone takes that and makes a completely new drink. Did I invent the drink?
The government through it's research may have helped but I'd like to think it's the millions of people all over the world who have individually contributed to various projects.
But that's typically American. take credit for everything regardless of the contribution.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific."
* Remarks by the President to the Diet, Tokyo, Japan. February 18, 2002
Here's another interesting example of where basic research can help change quality of life or provide practical applications for people. The government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the Ipod. I tune into the Ipod occasionally, you know?
It finally all makes sense. George Bush has publically admitted that the U.S. Government is responsible for the death of the music and movie industry. To compensate for the sins of the US Government in unleashing this horrific technology, they are now compensating and giving a nod to the RIAA and MPAA with the DMCA, DRM, and of course the new chick at the FCC who wants to copyprotect everything and make citizens register their DVD burners (just like a handgun). How could I have been so blind?! It all makes sense now!
I thought you were making this up until, I found the video clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb7iOvS7Akc
I for one welcome our new iBush overlord.
Now, I'm not a fan of him. But this is a prime example of what happens when you rip a few words out of context and twist them long enough to make the speaker look silly. Same with Gore and his "invention of the internet". He never said that, his words were, if I remember right, that he had the foresight to fund what became the first "browser" and thus helped to give the "net to the masses".
Imagine what could've happened about 50 years ago when JFK was standing in Berlin, giving his impressive and memorable speech that had its climax in the immortal words "Ich bin ein Berliner". The whole text around it was, IIRC, "Two thousand years ago the proudest boast was "Civis Romanus sum". Today the proudest boast is "Ich bin ein Berliner"."
In context, a speech to boost morale and faith in a town surrounded by communist GDR. Out of context, he pretty much said "I'm a donut".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Plus common sense says this is a dumb idea. How does Saddam ensure Syria won't out them to their American allies in the war against Al-Qaeda. It's true Colin Powell was full of praise for Syria in fighting Al-Qaeda and we dispatched some Canadian guy to be tortured on the mistaken assumption he was al-Qaeda. Also, how does Saddam ensure he gets them back had the US called off the invasion/ It's not like he could have sued or invaded otherwise the US would have justification and he'd been fucked.
Common Sense and basic historical knowledge can be fun.
... we'll get Dubya to dumb it down for you next time.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
I want "Jurassic Park"-style cloning and futuristic intelligence enhancement for the SOLE PURPOSE of creating an army of Tyranosaurs that will repeatedly rape W and anyone that voted for him in 2004. But even I acknowledge that this was a joke that he INTENDED to tell. This is too stupid even for Slashdot. That's what Fark is for.
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
Read the actual article.
Hmmm... Pie...
you know his low popularity is getting to him when he tries to align the govt with the ipod.
No, he does a good job of that all by himself.
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
All you have to do is mention ol' Georgy, and otherwise intelligent people lose about 50 IQ points. Dubya was making a joke!
It is a sad day when a joke by G. W. Bush goes over the head of most people on Slashdot!
It was a line calculated to get a laugh, and it did (from the crowd at Tuskeegee). Only Slashdot and DailyKos would try to interpret it literally.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
The exact speech reads as:
"Here's another interesting example of where basic research can help
change quality of life or provide practical applications for people. The
government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and
signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those
were the key ingredients for the development of the Ipod."
Bush claims that the govmt funded research was done FOR ONE REASON (to develop the ipod)
That is total B.S.
The argument as I hear it put forth is that Saddam wasn't giving the weapons to the Syrian government just to factions in the area.
he meant to say "government research developed the FreedomPod"
now is the winter of our discotheque
Compare
with
If the colon is used, it links the iPod and the reason. If a period is used, it becomes far more obvious that this is a coincidental relationship -- the government provided funding for companies researching these technologies, and the iPod uses technology derived from these same technologies.
(Wait. Did I just defend George Bush? I think I need a shower.)
For fuck's sake, IT WAS (supposed to be) A JOKE. You don't even need the context to figure that out. I'm no Bushlover, but if his retards' brand of humor is not immediately obvious to you from the paragraph itself, you're probably autistic.
No one thinks that the toshiba 1.8" hard drive is the only reason why Ipod is existing ?
For(k;;)(Fork();)
...the government were intelligent enough to invent ANYTHING! Most days I think that if all the brains in Washington were put together, they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get a booger out of their nose.
Where does OS X have DRM? I run OS X and I've never run into it.
Unless you're talking about encrypted volumes...
GPL Deconstructed
The Swedish mathematician who proved a convergence theorem for Fourier series. without him there would be no IPOD. :p
Without Fourier transforms, we would have used time-domain methods for processing digital audio. Shorten, FLAC, Apple Lossless, and most other lossless audio codecs make use of an autoregressive analysis of a block of audio, followed by linear prediction with entropy coding of the residuals. The GSM Full Rate codec (implemented in Toast) and the Speex codec operate in much the same way, except they add pitch analysis (to filter out the periodicity of vowels and instrumental chords) and lossy quantization.
Let's see, we've got the Iraq War, the Plame affair, the destruction of American credibility abroad, the promotion of a black-and-white, moralistic crusade against science, oil drilling in our nature preserves, and attempts to replace the text of the Bill of Rights with the phrase, "NO HOMER-SEXSHULS ALLOWED!" ...And we're wasting time arguing about whether a comment about a music player was a joke or not.
He quoted the exact statement that Al Gore made and expressed his opinion as to what it meant. And if you remove your partisan blinders, "I took the initiative in creating" sounds a rather lot like someone taking credit for it.
Mmmm.. Donuts
And he is generally recognized to be a very intelligent man. Of course, given that most slashdotters weren't even Hershey bars in their dad's back pocket back when Carter was president, it doesn't surprise me that everybody thinks Bush is the only president to mispronounce nuclear.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Nice job mindlessly reciting the racist caricature put forth by the military propagandists. You duckspeak doubleplusgood.
Now let me ask: How many real-life Japanese people do you actually know? I bet the answer is: "none". I, on the other hand, know quite a few, tourists and exchange students I've met, and immigrants and their descendants I've gotten to know long-term. (Admittedly, I may have an unfair advantage. I live in San Francisco now, and used to live in Honolulu.) And they are among the nicest, most decent, generous and intelligent people I've known. And they are nothing like the stereotype that people like you try to present.
In summary, kindly FOAD plz. K thx.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
I wonder if his entertainment factor gives him any kind of advantage. Kerry was boring, but this guy cracks people up. Its one thing to elect big actors like Arnold and Raegan, another entirely to elect someone who is entertaining while in office.
Oh and the wars arent boring either for this cowboy country.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
To ask ANYONE with higher than a fifth-grade command of the English language to read that man's words.
Is the entire audience of Slashdot and engadget so stupid that they can't tell when someone is telling a joke?
Don't just comment, place your vote at: http://www.exploremix.com/polls/slashdot-ipod-gove rnemnt-aaa.php
You know, so they could keep the Russians from infulencing the gov't. Of course, the Russians were there attempting to prevent the USA from influencing the gov't as well.
Too bad the terrorists ended up with those weapons and took down the towers. Too bad we didn't learn from that lesson.
Blar.
who invented the need for the funding for the work:-).
When the country falls into chaos, politicians talk about 'patriotism'. Lao-Tzu
If the French, West Germans and the Soviets jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?
It's been a long time.
I'm among the last people to praise Bush for doing anything, but I think that his speech hit spot on.
The gist of his speech was that research - any kind of research - is pivotal to creating and helping develop new technology, and that often new technology that's exciting in its own right ends up being used in totally different ways, many of which are also useful (and many times more useful than what it was originally invented for), and he used the iPod and Internet (if your reply concerns Al Gore because of that word, don't even bother).
You just can't argue with that kind of logic, because it's absolutely true. This is the essence of the saying "greater than the sum of its parts" and it's a very good way to back up added funds for research, which Bush advocates (doubled funds, if I recall correctly).
I didn't think anyone would be malicious enough to graft it into "Bush claims government invented iPod". I think that those who're doing that needs to watch that portion of the speech and ask themselves if he's really saying that, or if you just wish that he did say that because then you could ridicule him. I'm all about ridiculing Bush, but there's plenty of legitimate cases to choose from, and the truth of the matter is that this isn't one of them.
He said the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression and that these technologies found their way into the iPod among other things. His point was that the U.S. government, through funding, has helped to advance society and that these advances are making their way into private industry.
I don't agree with him on his policies, but I see nothing wrong with what he said here.
I mean since it was developed by the government, and anything they do is in the public trust and not owned by any one group. It can only be concluded that all patents (other than design) related to the iPod are null and void. IANAL
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
doPi (dopey???)
Which, I believe, is iPod spelled backwards....or is it????
The so-called "Liberal" media isn't. They just report on whatever is more humanly gripping, pants-dropping, rabblerousing. They don't report on positives. "A good economy -- how the hell do we get copy sold on that?"
And the papers will always try to get whoever is -in- office, out. It's basically the requirement of the fourth estate.
things I've heard Bush say. Government-sponsored research, mostly by the military, has been a prime engine of development in the United States. And it doesn't always show up in a straight-line fashion. The Manhattan Project is the best known investment, of course, but many, many other inventions were made possible by the government doing basic research. I have no doubt that the iPod contains elements that the government made possible by answering some basic questions about nature. So I think we should do ourselves a favor and not attack Bush for one of the few "sensical" things he's ever said.
Really? You been there?
If it's so fucking nice, why did they have to use a secret place where no one can have any oversight? Why not use a prison on US soil? You fucking anonymous coward tightasses have no fucking clue, you're just knee-jerk dickwads who are so stupid you can't even tell when we're ALL getting our freedoms taken away. Fucking cocksucker.
Liberal media? That's because the inevitable result of DOING THE FUCKING RESEARCH IS TO BECOME LIBERAL. Remember how we slashdotters say to RTFA? Well, these reporters are the ones doing the investigating and know what's going on. But they have editors and other higher ups who are beholden to the corporate power structure. The reporters might be liberal (good for them) but the media in general isn't, unless you're listening to Air America radio. The media are owned by the same forces taking over our country - business interests who have manipulated crazy fundamentalists into being on their side. Mussolini himself defined fascism as the merger of state and corporate power. In an open and free country, EVERYONE should be outraged a place like Gitmo exists.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
...is a walking, talking joke. He is an embarrassment to America.
You can't "disprove" a bad joke, no matter how much well-researched fact you throw at it. Because, frankly, nobody cares about the truth. The truth is boring.
Seeing people get worked up, on the other hand, is funny.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
I think you should grow up and get out of this juvenile paranoia. This is an implanted attitude, put there by the Overlords so that you will be able to deny your lyin' eyes at all times. If something unflattering to the Generalissimo appears in the media, it must be because "80% of the media are liberal," or some such bullcrap, outdated artifact of a survey done ages ago, which ignores one big fact anyway: the great majority of the owners of the media are rock-rib Republicans. Whatever. I did see the resignation of the Democrat from the ethics committee reported. It is embarrassing, though what he's accused of is exactly the scam that Gingrich and Delay -- and a few dozen other Republicans -- have been working for years. We hear from opinion journalists that "Democrats are involved in the Abramoff scandal," but not a single Democrat is on the list of those likely to be indicted. Not that we're THAT much cleaner, but Abramoff tried to make lobbying a completely Republican province in the 1,000 Year Republican Reich. The economic data is not all that great, in fact. I suggest you read this, written by a former assistant secretary of the Treasury under Reagan, Paul Craig Roberts: "Nuking the Economy." http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/021306Roberts.s html
And actually, I'm pretty sure that the 60 Minutes story was pretty accurate, though the documents are likely faked. It doesn't cause you the slightest problem that the man who runs the most belligerent administration in American history was a no-show when it was time for him to do his duty?
Before Bush's popularity numbers began their tumble, the media were enormously deferential to him. Remember, the leaks from Libby et al. ended up on the front page of the NY Times, that liberal bastion, helping him go to war based on fake intelligence.
Not entirely wrong, but probably not entirely true either.
WMDs in the Iraq-Iran war translates to poison gas. There's no meaningful evidence that Iraq (or Iran) used biological weapons, and no indication whatsoever that Iraq had or used anything resembling a nuclear or radiation weapon of any sort.
TRUE: The US backed Saddam Hussein's Iraq against Iran.
TRUE: Saddam Hussein used poison gas several times during the Iran-Iraq war. Iran may also have used poison gas but there is no solid proof that they did so.
PROBABLY NOT TRUE: The US government supplied raw materials for poison gas to Iraq. The US government provided intelligence data and 'crop dusting' helicopters to Iraq. On the other hand, the Reagan admistration made an apparently sincere attempt in 1984 to prevent further shipping of precursor chemicals to Iraq after it was discovered that an Iraqi front business was buying and shipping DMMP (a nerve gas precursor) to Iraq. Didn't impede the Iraqis much, they just bought the stuff elsewhere.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_at tack
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
If the French, West Germans and the Soviets jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?
The point is that people (especially Western Europeans) who dump on the USA are being highly hypocritical, and blind to the complicity of their own governments.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
I think the current situation justifies that to some extent. It wasn't france and germany who wanted to rush into Iraq and head into war.
And as for the soviets, I severely doubt there are many russians who are exactly blind to the excesses of their government.
It's been a long time.
- it was joke, wasn't it, Bill?
wink wink...
It seems to me that the reason this article was posted and is receiving such discussion is because Bush said it. He was obviously joking. The US Government did not fund research so Apple could make the iPod. Please.
Anyway - goverment funded research is behind all kinds of products that we use every day. NASA research for example, has led entirely or indirectly to smoke detectors, laptop computers, cordless tools, invisible braces, infrared thermometers, joystick controllers, consumer water purifiers, radiation blocking and scratch resistant eyeglass lenses, safety grooves on highways, modern athletic shoes and many others.
The IBush
DARPAnet != Internet, any more than blastocyst = infant.
If you remembered that, you'd be less wrong. Unfortunately, then you wouldn't have a point. Either way, you lose.
>> You have got to control that massive resource, it is a source of world control.
So why did U.S. forces not occupy Kuwait at the end of Desert Storm? We were already there, and we had a good excuse: "To ensure that we can rapidly respond to another invasion attempt by Saddam Hussein." If we only cared about Iraq's oil, why did the U.S. forces depart from Iraq instead of conquering it? Why wait over ten years?
>> And the profit from it also matters,
From what I have heard, maintaining a presence in Iraq costs FAR more than the oil revenue earns.
>> and having bases there that allow you to organize the region in your own interests, of course that matters.
The U.S. already had military bases in Saudi Arabia. If the U.S. only wanted more military bases, it could have maintained a presence in Kuwait and/or conquered Iraq during Desert Storm.
---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
Toshiba bought this technology from IBM years ago (BTW working there I've seen the first model of microdrive).
Yeah, the NSA did create the SELinux patches, and TOR was originally developed by the US Naval Research Facility. If you worry about any backdoors in either programs, then study the source code and try to find them.
---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
> Bush claims that the govmt funded research was done FOR ONE REASON (to develop the ipod)
That's one (relatively absurd) reading.
Another (much more sensible) reading is that this research was done for one reason, but another use turned out to be things like iPods.
True, the wording isn't the best, but what do you expect - Bush isn't the brightest. Saying he made the claim that this research was done for the sole purpose of creating iPods, though, isn't the brightest either.
No, that's not what the article says. It says that the government researched key technologies which made the creation iPod (among other things) possible. That's not the same thing as claiming that they developed the iPod, except for fools with an agenda to push.
P.S. Can no one on Slashdot spell the word cue properly?
> Here's the lay-down. We have records saying that Timmy bought 1,000 copies of J-Fed's cd (which I
> believe counts as a WMD). 500 copies were used to kill Kurds. 350 copies were later destroyed by the UN.
> When asked where the remaining 150 copies were, Timmy replied that there were no remaining 150 copies.
Wrong.
Timmy replied "I've destroyed them."
We replied "Prove it."
Timmy replied "Well, I can't - they're gone."
We replied "Let us look through your room to see if they're there."
Timmy replied "Okay."
We looked and didn't find them. Then we replied "Prove you destroyed them."
Timmy: "I told you - I can't prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist! You said it was okay if I let you search all through my room!"
Us: "Tough luck, Timmy - prepare for an ass-whupping."
Not only did we insist Iraq prove something unprovable (not to mention that even the US has lost a few chemical weapons in its day, and I bet our military is a whole lot better at keeping track of stuff than theirs), but we led everyone to believe we wouldn't attack if weapons inspectors were given unrestricted access, and then we attacked anyway when that access was given.
Basically, we lied, and now nobody in the world will trust our diplomacy.
This could have been a justified and successful war if it hadn't been bungled so badly. I don't know if it could have been screwed up worse and made the US look less trustworthy and less powerful if we'd tried. Now the world knows that our diplomats can't be trusted and our military can't handle insurgents. We blew our diplomatic credibility and showed our military isn't as all-powerful as everyone believed. We're in a much weaker position than we were 4 years ago, plus there are thousands of insurgents receiving hands-on training in how to conduct attacks against us.
Only if the goal was to make us less safe can anyone say "mission accomplished".
If the French, West Germans and the Soviets jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?
Probably. If the french, the West Germans, and the Soviets can agree on something, it's probably the right thing to do.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Is there a single person on slashdot that knows how to spell "cue"?
If only I could mod this... I go to Oberlin College, let's not forget the liberal bias in practically all the professors, everywhere if I'm to understand it correctly. True, the earlier statement that actually doing research inevitably leads to being liberal might have some truth in it, but for god's sakes people think for yourselves! The liberals are simply the lesser of two evils, and not always right.
It was probably a reference to the DRM in iTunes.
I notice you're marked "off-topic". I'm just wondering, how is pointing out that Bush was joking when he said this, or pointing out that the coverage is wrong, off-topic?
strange...
Racist caricature? Tell that to Nanking. OH GOD, THE MILTARY PROPAGANDISTS MADE IT ALL UP!
How's this for a viewpoint: I don't care about the Japanese body count in WW2. Dropping a couple nukes saved a hell of a lot more American lives than storming the island, and that's the primary thing the US miltary should be concerned about. To criticise A war of that scope does not reward mercy.
FTA:
"the government funded research in microdrive storage, electrochemistry and signal compression. They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod."
I love how the poster left out the most important part to make the statement sound silly. Apple didn't invent the mp3 player either, not even a hard drive based mp3 player. The only innovation from apple is the scroll wheel.
Here is the real quote:
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"
You clearly haven't read the Geneva convention. Go read it. Maybe next time you won't sound like an 8th grader spouting off crap he read on Daily Kos or something.
For the benefit of others, who may be interested in actually knowing the facts of the matter... a POW is defined as follows...
***"Now, as to the media leaning left, you have to be kidding me. Show me any real study and the result, coward."
Something like 90% of the Washington press corp votes Democrat, and twice as many self-identify as liberals as the general population.
Here is at least one poll of journalists that you could find for your self if you really wanted to know the answers to your questions.
And another, showing that they are way to the left of the general public on the Iraq war. Furthermore, if you don't trust the journalist themselves, the public, by a 5:3 margin perceives the media as being biased to the left. This margin handily exceeds the margin by which the public self-identifies as conservative (not to be confused with Republican).
Article
It wasn't france and germany who wanted to rush into Iraq and head into war.
You're right. They just wanted to sell more and more "dual-use" technologies to Iraq while buying oil from them, ensuring that more money funneled into Saddam's pockets.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Uh, hello! World to Slashdot! Knock, knock, Engadget! Reminds me of a joke I heard about liberals and conservatives.
What's the difference between a liberal and a conservative? Liberals have no sense of humor.
I'm assuming the Engadget post is just another attempt to point to evidence that Bush is deranged or megalomanical. How anyone can mistake an obvious punchline to get laughs on a serious point about the importance of government-funded research seems that the more likely conclusion is that some people need to lighten up.
So for the humor impaired, here's a humor-obvious version of the punchline:
"They did so for one reason: It turned out that those were the key ingredients for the development of the iPod." (Laughter)
With stories like this being highlighted as "news" on Slashdot, I propose the following format for future posts for the sake of the humor challenged readers among the Engadget and Slashdot crowd.
How nice of Bush "to point out the accomplishments of private companies in the US and abroad, [...] not to mention the Fraunhofer Institute". But the FHG is for a large part public funded.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
That's a ridiculously transparent thing to say: Almost all technology is 'dual use'. You can take an RTD, a plastic jug, and a heater, and use it to create a fermentation chamber. If you know what you're doing, you can make some of the most destructive chemicals known to man without working all that hard to acquire the raw materials.
The really important thing has never been about the 'dual use' technology, but ensuring that the people with the skills to do something with it aren't there -- and the shitty conditions in the war ravaged country more or less took care of that.
It's been a long time.
Their government, and following with that military. Oh, and corporations.
In all honesty I find the ratio of Americans I dislike to those I like is probably about the same as locals here, but I find their corporate practices (esp RIAA/MPAA/Sony/etc), military machine, and government policies/corruption detestable. But then again, so do many of the more educated Americans.
as the Bush that illegally copied his Beatles CD and put it on his iPod (beatles tracks aren't available in digital form in the US and ripping CDs is illegal in the US) Impeach!!!
I mean, the enemey will always.. ALWAYS.. be described as a suicidal maniac who is willing it give up everything, their life, civilans everything, to kill you and "your way of life"[TM]
And this is what just plain drives me nuts about today's 'libertarians'. Look at what you're saying there. Somehow, all of a sudden, the most important thing about choosing a society is what people are able to do with money. Property is more important than people. And anything that maximizes the 'freedom of the market' (whatever that means, given the tendency of a market-based economy to create economic slavery) is, ipso facto, good. It's a religion, because nobody even does a very good job of saying why a free market capitalist who puts people to death on a daily basis is somehow better than a socialist leader who doesn't. But they just are, because a free market is more important than people.
I'm not a big fan of collectivism either, in its most absolute forms. However, the freer the market, the less opportunity the people with no money have to ever gain money, and the more they come to resemble slaves. (In a truly free market, without copyrights and patents, any invention made by someone without the money to market and defend it himself instantly is coopted by the organization to take advantage of it.) So now you have a choice: slavery to collectivism, or slavery to capital. The latter is often preferred by the people with capital (who tend to be Republicans and libertarians, in this country). The former isn't really preferred by anyone, which is why it's never really been tried. (The USSR, Cuba, etc are all authoritarian/aristocratic states, that are only capitalist in the lower rungs of society.) It would seem to be to be appropriate to find a happy medium where there isn't anyone who is enslaved.
Sadly, that's not the direction the USA has been moving in of late.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
How is it you can organise this lengthy list of bullshit - err - I mean academic stuff - and yet you are utterly unable to spell the word "definitely" correctly?
You seem to have a brain - so why make people think you're a fool by adopting a 13-year old's spelling of "definitely"?
Try thinking about the actual words you use - and where they come from. I think you'll find there is no word "finate", or "definate" for you to draw on.
If you think spelling isn't important, please note, that hundreds of job application letters cross my desk throughout the year, and any letter containing spelling mistakes goes straight into the rubbish bin - no exceptions. Those who spell "definitely" wrong actually *do* get a reply, stating they won't be interviewed because they can't spell. I enclose their original letter, with red ink added, too.
Anyone applying for a job which pays better than twice the average wage should be spelling correctly, using a different word, or looking elsewhere for employment.
Thanks for your attention.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
I hope people will read this site instead of (or at least in addition to) the Snopes article.
It's a much more complete and coherent explanation of exactly what Al Gore's legitimate claim is with respect to contributing to the creation of the modern Internet.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
IBM developped the microdrive used for CF type II cards in 1999. The technology was sold to Hitachi later. Toshiba then developped a 1.8" 20 gig low power consumption hard drive. It was designed initially for the laptop market. By chance, Apple got into that and used that new 20 gig hard drive in their first Ipod model. At that time Hitachi was building 4 and 6 gig version of their microdrive used later in the Ipod mini. So unless you think that Ipod mini (discontinued!) was more popular than the classic Ipod 20 gig, then the key innovation for the Ipod is actually from Tokyo.
For(k;;)(Fork();)
What a moron... there's so much liberal bias it's not even funny! Grow a brainstem and get back to me. Yes, this is an ad homeinem (sp?) attack, but you people seriously annoy those of us in society who know how to think!
Ahh, thank you. You are an excellent spellchecker, sir.
I think this is totally awesome. I wish the government would spend more time developing stuff useful to us instead of bombing, invading and occupying other countries.
[o]_O
Go to the Tokyo-Edo museum sometime, and look at their memoirs of the ramp-up to "The Pacific War."
They see themselves as being suicidal maniacs at that time. The culture of 1030s Japan was one of hard-core Shinto warrior ethic. Losing the war was a tough lesson in humility, particularilly for the Japanese government. These days, most Japanese people are Budhists. Budhism, unlike Shinto, reveres humility. Most Japanese people consider Empirial Japan to be a very dark time in their history, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Japanese person who believes the US was wrong to drop the nukes.
Look, Bush got into and graduated from Yale, Harvard Business, and then became the governor of Texas, then 2x President of the US. You don't get this resumé by being an idiot, even if your Daddy is powerful.
Go listen to transcripts of some of his gubernatorial debates - before he learned to say 'nuculur'. These comments and 'mismalapropisms' are calculated and deliberate. If you've been fooled otherwise you've been disarmed as designed.
Don't be used.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
s/transcripts/recordings/
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Back then, most people who had access to what would become the Internet were VERY much against letting it be open to other people.
It was a big leap of thinking that it should be a public utility.
Back then, people accessed the resources using gopher. Gore sponsered the bill that created the first browser.
I never had access to the pre-Internet Inter-network myself, but I talked with people at Tektronix who had access. The pre-cursor to the Internet was a very limited resource compared to what resulted because of the funding arranged by Mr. Gore.
... the Internet's "most determined congressional
advocate"
My understanding is that there was no HTML in those days, and there were no generally useful browsers. People used Gopher and Archie to access resources. Numerous provisions needed to be made before what became the Internet could be an enormously useful, and public, resource.
Back then many, many technically knowledgeable people were actually against the idea that their semi-private inter-network would become a public utility. Then Senator Gore had the vision that most people didn't have, including Bill Gates.
Quote from Marc L. Andreessen about Senator Gore: "He had people buying into the concept of the information superhighway before anybody had an idea about what it would be." (This quote is just one I found on the first page of a Google search.)
Here's another quickly found web page which discusses the issue:
Not that the guy wasn't an asshat - but why not go all out and demand he put on a suit before he posts on Slashdot?
The Internet does exactly the same boring thing now it did 25 years ago: best-effort packet routing between IPv4 addresses. If you were to throw Web server and client hardware into a riced-up DeLorean, teleport them back to the mid-1980s, drop in BNC thinwire Ethernet adapters, and plug them in, bandwidth would seem poor by our standards but they'd work just fine. Everything you've described is an application that uses the Internet but isn't part of it.
If we manage to migrate everyone to IPv6, that will mark the first time the Internet has ever actually changed.
Have you figured it out yet?
Blar.
- namely, that Bush is talking about increasing funding to basic research. Talk about a flip-flop - did an alien invade his brain and boost his IQ or something?
You misspelled "Jew conspiracy."
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
Actually, it wasn't the GOP, but Wired.com and Declan McCullagh who first jumped on the idea that Gore claimed to have invented the Net.
Seth Finkelstein has a very thorough debunking of the tale on his site, showing that while Gore was sloppy in his speech, he did lots to promote the Net.
Did any of it make a difference? Discuss among yourselves.
Actually, don't laugh, they do this in North Korea.
:)
The papers are full of the Dear Leader's exploits, as he makes some new technological breakthrough, directs a hit film or finalizes the plans for some architechtual feat.
Everything in N-Korea is labeled as a N-Korean manufactured item, phones for instance, even though they might be built by a major S-Korean or Japanese manufacturer, are labeled as locally built with local brands.
The Pyongyang metro for instance uses train cars bought used from Berlin, complete with german graffiti. These have had the original (Siemens probably) manufacturers plaque removed and replaced with "Pyongyan Locomotive Company" plaques. I'm sure Kim Jong Il drew up the original designs for those train cars though
So, maybe this is where the US is going?
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig