Slashdot Mirror
Java to Appear in Next-Gen DVD players
Ivan P. writes "Sun Microsystems's Java technology will be built into Blu-ray DVD players, executives said on Monday during Sun's JavaOne trade show, a development that advances the technology in the consumer electronics market for which Sun originally developed the software. 'Java will be used for control menus, interactive features, network services and games,' said Yasushi Nishimura, director of Panasonic's Research and Development Company of America. 'This means that all Blu-ray Disc player devices will be shipped equipped with Java.'" Next stop, annoying Flash intros.
Microsoft's codec is in the HD-DVD spec
That means it will take about a week for someone to write a crack to bypass all those annoying trailers we have to watch before we can actually watch the dvd we payed for.
Since when did operating systems become a religion?
Now my DVD player is going to be slow to respond to UI, just like my mobile phone is now. Next they'll be putting Windows Mobile on these things too, and it will take 45+ seconds to 'boot' the damn thing, like with the Orange C500 phones....
I believe they're already essentially here, in the form of previews - some of which are unskippable - before you can even get to the menu. (Not Flash, but obviously still something very, very wrong.)
Well, at least they'll take up less space than the current annoying MPEG2 intros...
Does this mean I can run NetHack on my new DVD player?
Next stop, annoying Flash intros. Sigh... how this relates to java is beyond me... java is actually a very powerful language that drives alot of enterprise solutions and embedded systems. People always confuse java with java applets, or for some reason think java is crap. I used to too, before I got to know the language better. Oh, do I like Ruby or python better? Sure. But that doesnt remove the fact that java is here to stay and has proven itself more than enough in the enterprise. So why slashdot's hostility towards it remains is beyond me. I've seen large scale systems attempted to be developed in perl and believe me... that doesnt work well at all! :)
After reading the article, it seems to me that these new media standards are pushing far beyond just new ways to store video. Gosling is quoted as saying "Part of the DVD standard is the players have network ports out of the back". This just smacks of network controlled DRM, and the ability to run java bytecode when the discs boot could allow a whole new range of lockdown facilities on the disks. Not to mention the amount of complexity having network & JVM functionality must be introducing to the end units. Surely even mass production wil struggle to bring such complex devices down to sane prices in the near future.
This would appear to be strongly pushing the bias of practicality toward the opposing HD-DVD camp, while attempting to strengthen Blu-Ray's position as technologically more advanced and superior.
Business Voyeur
thanks for telling me what NOT to buy.
Kinda funny, Java started as a language for programming TV cableboxes, and after years of evolving into everything from J2ME to J2EE, it finds itself back home atop the TV in DVD players.
The important innovation here is that each of these players will also include a network port. Together with Java, this will mean a huge amount of stuff that we can with these players.
One idea I'm not so sure about is that it could become a small game platform. DVDs tend to come with little built in games. In the future, they'll be networked. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceburg.
I don't know what happened to the real site, but there was a site (viewable here, now gone) that had gobs of additional information. I think it was from the same people.
Is it just me, or am I the only one completely freakin annoyed with DVD menus? One out of every two has a DVD menu that is absolutely infuriating from a usability perspective. Half the time I'm guessing at what is about to happen, as there appears to be not one freakin convention in the industry as to how DVD menus should be laid out, operate, and respond. I appears to be a totally 'make-work' industry, and nobody can convince me that the production of fancy interfaces doesn't cost a little extra. I'm not saying you can't figure them out after a little fumbling, but sheesh, I'm buying a movie and some comentary, not a magazine that happens to contain a movie.
ARGH. Probably one of my absolute top peeves of the last 10 years of technology. Its enough to make one weep for the comforting sight of a simple, nondescript blinking 12:00.
As for Java, I don't care what it is. I hope to god that interface creation is done through SOME kind of standardized framework or toolkit so at least widgets can at least act, if not look similar, DVD to DVD.
I know I'm asking for a lot tho, because it really seems to me that there are a lot of things in our technilogical world that are done simply because somebody sees a potential way to make money and successfully sells the problem (standardized DVD menus, in this case, the horror) to an industry.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Editors, you should try to correct the original article not parrot it. 'nuff said
Anyhoo.. what they are saying (which I think is pretty cool) is that the movies will be scripted by programs "written in" java byte codes. Who cares what the language is (java is a language editors). It could even be Flash something or other, or C++ compiled on Windows as long as the output is JVM byte codes who cares. This _could_ lead to very interesting development tools and quite imaginative use of next gen disks.
More interesting would be knowing about the API to be specified along with JVM. It could even be DirectX. There's nothing to prevent that.
The API is more interesting as having picked a general purpose machine representation how general purpose will the API be that it uses?
Basically this is worth crap to Sun except for publicity. I thought the JVM specs were open(ish).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
> Next stop, annoying Flash intros.
The playstation 2 already has a flash player in it, used by various games for their menu systems among other things.
I guess game companies try not to annoy their customers, so Flash gets used reasonably there.
Damn, now we just need to get these things a network connection and a plugin for Azureus, then I can download new movies before their released, watch them on my TV, and maybe if its also one of those nifty VHS/DVD combo things, burn my new movie to a disk.
Scott Swezey
correct link
Rip, edit, burn.
Bye-bye menus, trailers, etc.
DVD Shrink is also good.
Although I see what you are saying about the danger of a network based DRM creeping into discs, I think it very unlikley - a deivce that requires a working network connection would not be nearly as mass-market as DVD players are today. It simply cannot be a requirement.
There may be some specialized discs that do something like this but I don't not think it will be mandatory.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The inclusion of Java could lead to nicer open source DVD authoring apps that would allow easier control over menu workings. And it's a lot nicer to have a standard language underneath rather than the cryptic menu building language of todays DVD's.
At the very least those games they always throw on kids DVD's might not be so awful to play if they do not have to be shoe-horned into a system never really designed for games.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Next stop, annoying Flash intros."
Relax, Mr. Slippery Slope: Java is just a programming language.
k.h.
k.h.
- Toasters
- Microwaves
- Refridgerators
Being funny is my sig nature.
Over a period, I have developed feeling that the advantage Java has ("Write once run everywhere") is also available in "Linux". Java technology enables a layer on OS that makes "a virtual machine" out of any of the OS available. Whereas Linux provides a real machine.. and a large variety of programs (c, c++, perl, ruby, python, php) are executable and they do offer "Write once run everywhere" advantage. If Sun does not open source Java sooner, it will lose it to Linux.
Note: the majority of people couldn't give a hang about back-end, so called 'enterprise' solutions with Java)
Yes, because, like, no-one uses E-Bay, banks, stock-markets, airline on-line booking systems.
I'm sure the majority of people couldn't give a hang about these.
That means it will take about a week for someone to write a crack to bypass all those annoying trailers we have to watch before we can actually watch the dvd we payed for.
I suggest breaking copyright law and aquiring a better copy.
Or a bloody coup... ya know... whichever.
You can't take the sky from me...
Mod parent down, GNAA troll redirects to "Last Measure" site.
This convergence thing is really starting to go too far. Does anyone else agree, or do people actually want all your products to do a gazillion things?
today is spelling optional day.
JVM is not complex at all. Any reasonable emulator coder could lash one up in no time. Getting it fast is another matter but JVM is designed to be implemented in silicon and as (a form of) stack machine is not to difficult to implement in a small amount of silicon.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
So now when I pop the DVD in it will say "applet started" and then nothing will happen.
It's funny how every specialty manufacturer attempts to reach out to another not-new-and-already-dominated market segment with an idea that they should have committed to years ago.
It sounds like they want some kind of time shifting device that's network enabled. Let's see, time shifting? Yup done. Now networked media device? Yup done.
So that means my mega-corporation will make a device that will be higher priced that no one will buy because the price is too high and the feature set too vague! "Let's do it! Come on! Who is with me!!!"
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I see a lot of little applications (usually bundled on a device driver CD) with ultra-kewel "skins" on them that have the same problem (look at the WMP skins, or any XMMS theme). Likewise, newer versions of Microsoft Office have stupid-looking toolbars and menus that aren't anything like standard Windows ones. I seem to recall that a consistent UI was one of the pitches for these GUIs in the first place. I'm assuming munging the UI in Office counts as a must-have upgrade since nothing substantive has changed since Office 97 or maybe 2000.
yes java is not slow... only the mind of the parent.
.. will it takes us to get that f*cker to boot the kernel?
I'm happy to see this. It's a big piece of the technology market that is going to be occupied by someone other than Microsoft. Can you imagine if every DVD player in the future had Windows and .NET in it? It would take less than a year for Microsoft to begin forcing all DVD player owners to become XBox owners.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
A bluray disk might actually provide enough memory for Java.
Stop being difficult for the sake of it. Other than people who work in that industry no end-user cares a damn about what goes into running enterprise (god I HATE that word) solutions. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. You act like every little pleb out there owes a big thank you to people who write this crap in Java, ASP, .NET whatever for those wonderful big companies that keep our beloved economy moving.
And personally, for me as the end-user, I won't even use a site/service if it needs Java, it's just too much a security risk. I have permanently disabled Java in all browsers I have used for the last 6 years or more and will continue to do so.
Am I missing out ? I really don't think so and am very happy with that decision. If gullible idiots want to run Java in their browsers to access their bank account or anything else let them, it's their problem not mine.
As for it's application in DVDs, well it's a bit like ID Cards; put forward as an idea that will improve 'things' for everyone but actually is just little more than a way to enforce (with the ethernet port (WTF is a DVD player doing with an ethernet port)) more DRM, more snooping and to subvert control of the end user's equipment.
They can stuff their Java, their ethernet port and everything else.
P.s thankfully I have never encountered Java on eBay.
GEM also appears to be at the heart of the convergence efforts for iTV (DVB-MHP, OCAP, ACAP, and ARIB - otherwise known as the digital broadcast standards for Europe, North America, and Japan for over-the-air and cable TV).
One iTV standard would certainly simplify life for content developers, cable companies and broadcasters - but Microsoft and Toshiba are now pushing a Microsoft .NET based approach for HD DVD - and MS may be putting an HD DVD drives intothe Xbox 360 http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=conte nt&task=view&id=1473),
coupled with MS's IPTV efforts - a unified iTV technology will be elusive.
That said, there may be a unified DRM technology between HD DVD and Blu Ray based on AACS. See this site http://www.aacsla.com/ for the specications. Apparently, we would be able to download and burn DRM'd content to HD media.
Fun fun fun.
Wow just what I always wanted, DVDs that crash and lock up the system or that keep records of things. Oh hey why not that need you to insert a patch CD first before going through some moronic high tech looking idiot made interface so that you can do stupid things, I liked the old days when you just put the things into the things and the moving pictures showed up in the magic box!
This is a disaster waiting to happen.
No this isn't a shot at Java this is a shot at over building things. What's next Java in my car?
Microsoft's codec is also in the Blu-Ray spec
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
There is a very simple way around all of this...and I am supprised more people haven't found out about this yet...press the next chapter button. It has worked on every dvd played flawlessly..
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
He means Java on the *server* side. Just because it is written in Java does not make it an applet that your computer has to load. But if you really want to block all java - stop accessing all sites that use .jsp because their server uses java to prepare the page!
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
"Java bytecode" isn't very specific. Will this be running J2ME? Something new? What?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Stop being difficult for the sake of it.
.NET whatever for those wonderful big companies that keep our beloved economy moving.
I am simply pointing out what Java can do.
Other than people who work in that industry no end-user cares a damn about what goes into running enterprise (god I HATE that word) solutions. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. You act like every little pleb out there owes a big thank you to people who write this crap in Java, ASP,
But they do. These systems are designed because they can provide services that really work, and that stay working under heavy load.
And personally, for me as the end-user, I won't even use a site/service if it needs Java, it's just too much a security risk.
In what way? Could you mention a single security breach due to Java in the past few years?
I have permanently disabled Java in all browsers I have used for the last 6 years or more and will continue to do so.
The sites I mention don't require Java in the browser at all. They are using Java on the server to provide your web pages, and to process your data.
P.s thankfully I have never encountered Java on eBay.
Yes you have! The entire E-bay site and infrastructure runs on Java.
I can't make it through the trailers :|
I can run Eclipse on my Blu-Ray player!
A player that can decode high definition video should be able to run Java software with incredible speed. Keep in mind that a CPU to handle menus doesn't need to be that powerful.
I'll have more of them now; guess I'll have a place to set my java.
Vic
will run java?
DVD menus should be completely declarative, and the exact layout should be decided and implemented by the player. This would allow for players which can attempt to read the menu captions out for blind viewers, among other benefits. It would also mean that they would by necessity be less flashy and annoying, and they'd work the same for every DVD. It wouldn't work the same on every DVD player, but then people might start shopping for DVD players based on who has the best UI, which would be fine by me.
Joe Sixpack inserts his new DVD into the drive and...
"NullPointerException? WTF?"
Now you have a retro gaming machine, and with 50 gig per blue-ray disc, lots of room left over!
I predict the RIAA will be the number one revenue stream for malware authors, whose spyware and viruses will primarily be used to detect illegal files on the home network and alert the DVD player server to lock you out. I figure that's the main reason for the Java, to make it easy to calculate and update encryption. Conceivably an i-Mode type network could be built but it's hard to imagine all companies working together in step on it..
Thanks for the link - I found this part AMAZING:
Since the HD-DVD drives probably won't be ready by the time Xbox 360 is available in retail channels, Microsoft said it would ship the console initially with regular DVD drives and then revise the console with HD-DVD drives once they are ready.
Yes, Microsoft is prepared to Osbourne its console!!! Who will buy the launch units when HD-DVD units (which you know some interesting games will make use of later on) will be out later?
I was amazed that Microsoft did not originally include HD-DVD units, for the very reasons you noted about using it as a lever to push Microsoft technologies. This is going to give Sony and Nintendo a HUGE leg up, and shows a lucky break on their part (well, perhaps just good sense of timing) that they release when all of the console can truly be "NextGen".
To throw another metaphor in there, I think the XBox 360 is now the Jaguar of the current console war (which shipped with kind of anemic cartridge capabilities, as I remember). Perhaps they can ship the HD-DVD drive as a toilet-shaped add-on that rides atop the original XBox 360. Hey, I owned one and liked it a lot so I'm allowed to kid!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The AC is either trollong or just doesn't understand the difference between server side and client side java.
You throw enough hardware at something, anything can be fast. That proves nothing. What has been proven to me, at least, is that every Java application I've encountered has been a slow, memory-hogging pig compared to applications written in other languages.
Sure, it might be possible to write a Java app that doesn't suck. But all the hand waving in the world about Ebay, who can afford massive amounts of hardware, is not going to change everyone's personal experiences with the language. What, do you think everyone is making it up? No -- A LOT of people have sucky experiences with applications written in the language.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
This is great ANTI-DMCA loophole!!!
The only executable code on a DVD has at least one copy on the disk stored in UNENCRYTED non protected form, all other parts of a DVD are unlocked.
The reason? The law, specifically as it eventually became DMCA.
The full provision of DMCA allows any means needed to fully deprotect a protected asset if you are trying to execute code.... its in clear english in the act.
I welcome any addition of executable instructions to Blu-Ray!!!!
This is fantastic (and foolish for MPAA) news!
Yes you have! The entire E-bay site and infrastructure runs on Java.
That would explain why eBay is so slow.
Actually I think we are getting muddled up here. You began by saying that Java (as in back end/server side Java) was something we all use and should appreciate. I'm saying no one cares about that and it is highly swappable with any other competing technology.
But you also mentioned online banks. Several online banks do use a client side Java interface for end users (never mind whatever they are using server side) and I am saying I don't ever use any client side Java and never really have.
So I still stand by my original view. Java as a run-of-the-mill end-user desktop application is about zilch. It's simply too slow. For other areas it may have some uses but don't expect me to get excited about them.
P.S to the cretin below, yes I do know the difference between client and server side. Troll or not though, well that's all a point of view isn't it.
That or doesn't understand that Java != JavaScript.
That would explain why eBay is so slow.
That is a very easy comment to make, but I don't think that it is fair comment considering E-Bay is possibly the highest volume website ever, and I doubt that the developers of that site are stupid enough to develop the site using a slow technology. I'm afraid the 'slow' argument is getting very old fashioned and rather boring. Java is used for extremely high volume websites, dealing with thousands of transactions every second.
It is time the 'slow' argument was finally put to rest.
Actually I think we are getting muddled up here. You began by saying that Java (as in back end/server side Java) was something we all use and should appreciate. I'm saying no one cares about that and it is highly swappable with any other competing technology.
What other competing technology?
Just not right away.
Don't believe Microsoft would be so stupid? Read this!
As the saying goes - Game Over, Man! And not for Sony.
And for cross-reference, Balmer said as much (about the eventual inclusion of HD-DVD) when interviewed by Engadget way back in May. Actually what he really said then was they could go other way, but the link I provided seems to indicate which way they are swinging - and is anyone surprised it's whatever Sony is NOT doing?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Some of the Thomas the Tank Engine videos my three-year old is in love with have 3 seperate, unskippable "We made this!" snippets, along with the FBI warning and two trailers. (At least the latter are skippable.)
Now add in menus that have to go through the entire minute plus animation before responding, it can easily take three minutes from disc insert to viewing the video. Ever waited with a three year old desperate for his fix for that long?
HULK WANT TO SMASH!
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
There are lots and lots and lots of DVD's with "games" on them today. Mostly kids DVD's but not all.
I use the term loosely because the games are hampered by the fairly horrific need to use the DVD menu system to play them. This makes for really annoying games, even if you like the basic concept.
In the DVD release of National Treasure, they had actually kind of a cool little movie/game, that was trying to interactively demonstrate different forms of encryption. It had some kind of interesting activities, but these would have been a lot nicer if the system had the ability to really be more like an application and less like a game tacked into a menu with a lot of loading pauses.
Generally I am also against devices that try to do too much. But given what DVD's are already doing today I'd say allowing a little leeway with the menuing system is probably going to be kind of handy and work out well for everyone (that is the consumers too!)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
" It doesn't matter how good a language it is, if all it is capable of delivering are pig ugly end-user applications. Note: the majority of people couldn't give a hang about back-end, so called 'enterprise' solutions with Java) Azureus, LimeWire, Neo Office are all butt-ugly with sluggish, slow and buggy interfaces. The promise of Java on the desktop is long since over. People realized that it just didn't deliver. No surprise then they are desperately trying to find other uses for it like embedding it into DVD Players."
The fact that this is modded +5 insightful really shows how much Slashdot has become a haven for idiocy. Your so called 'note' is honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You really think people don't care about the websites they visit for things such as banking, auctions, airfare etc.? You and anyone who modded this as insightful is an idiot.
Slashdot has become nothing more than a page for open source extremists to vent their frustrations.
P.S. Real good example of open source by using Slashcode to render this site. Slashcode looks like it was written by a 10 year old who has never touched a computer.
Yes, since it will also be a Blu-Ray player.
What that really means though, we all have no idea as there are a lot of variants of the Java platform.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I thought the companies were thinking of using Cell for their processors, and if they are, wouldn't having a supercomputer kind of deminish the fear of Java's "slowness"? Or was the talk more of using Cell to power new TV's and the like?
While reading WiReD circa 1995!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG SET TOP BOX! orange TEXT on green BACKGROUND omG oMg Omg OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!
Assuming the beasty retains state, I can have consistent look and feel to the menus and options in my collection. I can set what I sound system I have, what languages I speak, etc. And also, I can export my preferences and viewing habits, so I know when I last watched something, which special features I have used, etc. And for the doting (control freak) parent, last time the porno collection was played :)
For the recorder, lots of neat options abound (in NZ, we do not have tivo).
And finally, WIZZY screensavers !!! :)
Does anyone read this ?
I like java a lot and use java a lot, but this sort of benchmark doesn't prove a whole lot. It IS impressive that Java can run floating point ops at the speed of C++.
However, java is slow because of object allocation and deallocation and arguably because of the immutability of objects.
Personally i think the drop in runtime speed is acceptable given shorter development times and safer code.
If the plan was just to add games, then I would agree with you. Actually, the idea is that MPEG-4 streams will carry coded "objects" which the user can interact with. Hence MPEG-J. See http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/tutorials/koenen/ mpeg-4.htm
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
IAADA (I am a DVD author person) (or what ever I'm called) and agree that badly designed menus are a disgrace. I also know that potential clients of ours sometimes choose to 'let some one else author the dvd' because they are just not willing to pay the price for a proper design that a professional business as ours asks.
But standardizing widgets is just plain stupid; it's like standardising book covers. What I would personally like to see is a more coherent view on the look-feel of a product and that all design related to the disk is done by one person ie. the inlay, the disc-print and the menus.
Not even his posted comment, but to him, he is objectionable:
Next stop, annoying Flash intros.
Right... the processor that will run the JVM, if not a specific Java chip, then the DVD will certainly have a chip capable of running an embedded flash player.
Now. I have to shout sorry:
FLASH IS A DISPLAY / VECTOR ANIMATION TECHNOLOGY.
1) It has nothing to do with Java - THIS news is AWESOME and I look forward to being able to write my own programs to take screen caps, and write a whimsical comment while the player is playing, and email it to a friend. Or keep a log of my movies and ratings as I watch them, or write a book mark sharing XML format, and wire it to the remote, so you can bookmark film locations, and plug your own audio commentary on them. (think about wedding videos / holiday video, and you will see why this is nice - but also for mainstream stuff)
2) So, Java can do games and animation, and even there are Java flash players, and SVG players, and MPEG4 players. Just because the technology is there, doesn't mean annoying 'Flash' (unrelated) intros.
3) *ahem*
What is more annoying is the abundance of unskipable content on DVD's, and this has nothing to do with either of the unrelated technologies that you have mentioned.
If this can be screwed off, I would be happier, I still haven't had time to look for a firmware hack for my DVD player.
Anyway.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Out of work VB6 developer by any chance?
Bob
Listen to my latest album here
Java is just a programming language
Actually, it's just the Java VM that will be included in the players. Which means that you could program in Java or Jython or any other programming language whose compiler outputs opcodes for the Java VM.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Next stop, annoying Flash intros.
Because of course with the existing DVD technology it isn't possible to create annoying intros. Plus, all Java is good for is creating annoying intros.
Wow, that's dumbest remark I've read in a long, long time.
Azureus,
LimeWire,
Neo Office
are all butt-ugly with sluggish, slow and buggy interfaces. The promise of Java on the desktop is long since over. People realized that it just didn't deliver.
Many of us have realised that Java isn't the problem. AWT doesn't deliver. SWING, being based on AWT, also doesn't deliver. SWT, however, seems to be pretty good. My company has its own internal class library, similar in many ways to SWT, which also works well.
AWT is just too abstract -- the double layers of abstraction involved in every operation slow it down too far. Use Java without it, and you'll see a big difference.
Ebay, who can afford massive amounts of hardware, is not going to change everyone's personal experiences with the language.
It is absurd to say that a company like E-Bay would deliberately waste money throwing hardware at a slow language.
They use Java because of its speed.
Java is being used in record-breaking sites that are hitting tens of thousands of transactions per second.
What, do you think everyone is making it up?
Actually, yes. Java has a reputation from years ago, and most critics are basing their opinions on that reputation or the experience of a slow GUI (which is certainly not the best way to measure speed).
http://www.robert-tolksdorf.de/vmlanguages.html
First of all, to each his/her own: I very much like the beautiful (in my eyes) interface Azureus presents the user with.
Second, I'm running Azureus on a Pentium 133Mhz, 48Mb Ram running Windows 2000 Evaluation and I can assure you that it's not slow. If it's not slow on that old iron, it should definitely not be slow on something that can be considered of this era.
Third and last: Java was DESIGNED for embedded systems, they are not fleeing to other markets now as you'd like to point out.
http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
Why would the industry want a proprietary, non-standard language in their set-top players? They'd be much better off putting Squeak or Python, or just about anything else in there....even .NET!
Best Buy can have you arrested
My Panasonic DVD-RAM recorder takes a flipping age to boot, and to shutdown. Presumably its checking the filesystem on the disk or something.
Jave would speed it up.
Bus error in your favour. Collect 200kB
Hopefully this will enable better subtitles in the features themselves. I'm a little bit of an anime fanboy, and anyone that watches a lot of anime can tell you that the fansubs (fan-made subtitled anime releases) have far superior subtitles to the dvds, as they hard-code the subtitles into their releases. These days, during the opening theme tune, every fansub has an English translation of the lyrics, a romanized Japanese version, and a version in Japanese script. The dvd version will invariably just have the English translation, or even just the romanized Japanese. The fansubs are also able to translate signs that appear in the feature, whereas dvds can't. If the professional anime releases came to approach the standard of free fansubs, I would probably buy a lot more anime dvds. Does anyone know if this will be possible, and if the HD-DVD camp has an alternative solution?
One good turn - gets all the covers.
Now my dvd player will be even slower :(
Java can run crypto. I bet you 10 bucks they will use it to enforce some new Drackonian DRM scheme.
The European Commission are also using Java in environments that take so much stress there is no other option, and because of its reliability and team oriented nature (the standards in development an close ties to many tools) it has gone 100% Java.
:-)
The biggest hurdle for many people who taught themselves languages like perl, and vb, is they learned in a linear, copy paste way of doing things.
The languages support linear learning. Java does not really.
You need to know what an object is, a primitive, object concepts, method calling, scope and a heap of other things (not even counting the need to know the standard libraries) all at once to really be productive.
I learned VB on the first day of the job, when I said I could do it, and got the job. (oh so many painful years ago....
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Oh great.
As if starting a movie isn't slow enough as it is....
I don't buy DVD's anymore.
My heart broke when I find out that DVD's don't last for more than a few years... something to do with the durability of the information on them being less than 5 to 10 years. Everybody thinks these silver plastic discs will last 10,000 years or more, only to find out that EPA wanted green plastics for the landfills. Now I know why my DVD home movies and albums suffer from skipping and just plain won't play. losing money and memories along the way.
Note: Biodegradable media turns to tiny pellets. That means green CD and DVD (burnt or pressed) will start to degrade once you open the package.
Copy and paste:
www.lenica.net/bioplastics/patel.ppt
Review of Life Cycle Assessments for Bioplastics
OK, yes, the announcement is something new and it is relevant for /. to report this kind of story, but as far as the DVD industry is concerned, they blew their chance and this is essentially old news.
Every DVD player comes equiped with its own CPU, and even its own assembly code that is a part of the DVD-Video specification. This is already a part of the DVD-Video spec from even the very beginning. The problem is that Hollywood (together with the other members of the DVD Consortium... now DVD Forum) deliberately crippled the CPU so that it could in reality do very little. I've described this CPU has having 26 registers, no RAM at all, and 1 TB ROM address space, with incredible video capabilities but lousy rendering capabilities (sub-pictures).
Frankly, I think the DVD Forum blew their chance at having a cheap consumer entertainment computer back when the original design was put together back in the mid 1980s. If the CPU would have even had just a little bit more computing power, including a small (even 64 K) amount of RAM and text rendering capabilities (nothing new or even expensive to implement back when the design was being put together) they would have had not only a movie playing machine, but a computing platform that would have been more widely distruted than the X-Box or Playstation.
Even before the DVD-Video 1.0 spec came out (it was at a beta 0.98 when I mentioned this) I was suggesting to the design committee for DVD-Video to incorporate Java into the specification. Even then (about 10 years ago) I felt that some sort of programming environment would have been both easy to implement and offer to make DVD-Video something well beyond a simple movie playback box. Obviously my idea fell on deaf ears. Too bad I didn't patent the idea (perhaps I should have).
The DVD Forum will probabaly screw this one up as well, but at least they are going down the right general direction. IMHO there is no reason to make it specific to the Blu-ray format except as a splash to make the new generation of players seem to have more capabilities. Existing DVD discs certainly could be using this same capability, and there is plenty of space on a DVD for some binary (even raw source code) programming instructions, with a full two hour movie.
During that period while the hotspot profiler thread is looking for sections of code to optimize, your performance is going to be quite horrid because your program will be competing for resources with a compiler. So instead of a start-up pause we have a start up "really slow period".
This is a good thing. If these players are able to read CDs and regular DVDs as well, I could easily see this becoming a new platform for homebrewed games. Which would be a huge boon for small time indy game makers. :-)
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
that the PS3 will not have this java "feature". So 'This means that all Blu-ray Disc player devices will be shipped equipped with Java.' is thankfully incorrect.
The Green project which spawned Java at Sun origionally targeted set top boxes and consumer devices. Oak which morphed into Java was intended to support the kind of consumer device which blu-ray will be.
The slowdown in interest in set top boxes coincided with the rise in interest in the Internet and Java was born. We are have now come full circle with most mobile phones supporting java.
My guess for the real reason for putting Java on a set-top box is to have real a real encryption system. This way the box could be programmed to use a high quality encryption system, perhaps one like what is used to encrypt web traffic today. I'm guessing a system like this would be much harder to crack than one that is in use today, but it doesn't seem impossible to me.
SIGFAULT
is that the FBI have no jurisdiction in the country I bought the DVD in/live in (Canada).
Do I get this right?
A $50 box that is quiet, plugged into my TV, plugged into the Internet, and can run custom code from a custom disk that I burn?
Possible applications anyone?
A cheap slave box with a custom Java code that functions as an alternate type of MythTV front end, that streams video on demand from a MythTV backend?
Games? (Using only the remote control as an input device?)
A general porpoise Java app could be written that talks to a server, where the server "drives" the user interface on the TV screen. This general purpose DVD only needs to be released once. Applications can be written on your Linux box that present any type of user interface for any purpose. Home control menus and applications, for example. Show me the latest Slashdot headlines. (But the custom code for this is on the Linux box, the DVD is just a general remote driven user interface toolkit.) Show me the current weather map. Show me the front door security camera.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I think the problem is deeper than whether JAVA or C or some other language is used. The problem is that the device recieves outside updates.
As the patches become more sophistcated{sp} or bloated depending on your point of view the device of course slows down.
This is especially true of updates that phone home to track usage. {To improve your user experence of course.}
JACEM
DOC Disinformation Obfuscation and Confusion
The carrot to FUD's stick
Lots of other people have been defending Flash, but so far I haven't seen any comments that mention the fact that FLASH IS ALREADY IN CURRENT DVD-PLAYERS.
Those interactive DVD menus, little buttons the light-up when you select them, transitions from one sub-menu to another, etc, it's all done in Flash right now.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I just compiled a small Java command line application and executed it, using Java 1.5 on my 2.8 ghz p4, in this universe. Startup time for the Java app was 51 milliseconds, which is virtually imperceptible to the user.
As a test, I just ran a minor swing app, and the RAM consumed was 9M (excepting share). This would not "send the machine into swap" unless I were using a 386 sx/16 with 8MB of RAM from 15 years ago, or unless I were running so many other things that I had virtually no RAM remaining, which would be my fault and not Java's.
You may consider taking your own advice. Several of the things you claimed were true can be proved false. Either you didn't try the things you claimed, or you're making stuff up, or you did something wrong.
...I routinely use the IntelliJ IDE/Case Tool, which is an enormous, heavyweight application written using Swing. Although the memory usage is worse than a comparable C++ app, I don't detect any difference in GUI responsiveness. In fact, GUI responsiveness is so good that Swing apps on Windows are perceptibly more responsive than natively compiled C++ apps on XF86, since X still imposes noticeable performance penalties.
Granted, memory usage is worse with Java. This is for two reasons: 1) a generational compacting collector takes about twice the heap space, and 2) libraries are not shared between different Java apps. The second problem is going away with Java 1.6. The first problem can be gotten rid of by changing garbage collection parameters, but it's a size vs. speed tradeoff.
erm, you getting activeX and applets all mixed up. An applet running on you machine can't do much besides hog your cpu (which java apps are reeeally good at
Also, backend java doesn't require anything besides html as interface for the use.
___
No power in the 'verse can stop me
If you're on a lo-carb diet, leave the hi-carb linguistics to others.
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