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I do not understand how Photoshop running under Linux is "thanks to Disney". I have been running Photoshop under Linux the same way for months now, so is it thanks to me that Photoshop runs under Linux? No. It's thanks to these guys because of what these guys started. Try to have some more integrity, would you?

I've been running it for awhile and it works great. There's slight window redrawing problems, but that's just fluff. The meat of the program is solid. Check out the demo version is you have any doubts. Worth the money.

I've been running version 7 with cxoffice for quite some time. If they can do it, it can't be that hard for someone else to do it.

I've been using Photoshop since the 2.5 days (pre layers -- when real men [and women] used alpha channels) on Macs. I then switched over to using pshop on the PC because, well, I couldn't afford a mac!

But then, something strange happened. I had been using Linux (Redhat) as my OS-of-choice at home and would switch to my laptop (running 2k) to do Photoshop work. Out of the desire to use my mouse, I went and sunk a few bucks and bought the crossover application (commercial version of wine) and whalla! Photoshop 6 runs on my linux box, and faster!

So, now I can use Photoshop with my mouse (instead of that annoying touch-pad). The only thing that is a little annoying is that the focus of the tool bar and the other pallets take away from the canvas, so if you click on the marquee tool, you have to "double click" on the canvas to get the focus where you need it. Not a big deal, just a "thing."

Crossover Office 2.0 has official support for Adobe Photoshop.

I installed PS 7 on my P4 2.4Ghz and is ran quite nicely. It's amazing how far Wine has come.

See Crossover Office, which is based on Wine, to run Photoshop, Internet Explorer, MS Office and a number of other big-name Windows applications in Linux.

If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, take this advice to heart:

You would gain an amazing amount of respect that you desperately need if you stopped fighting Linux and made an effort to join the community. Many of my customers are chomping at the bit to dump Microsoft and go Linux on the desktop. The day is coming when that'll be possible. I've already begun the migration with the help of CrossoverOffice.

Inaction on your part is creating a vacuum in the marketplace. Someone will fill it like they always do. Unfortunately for you, this time you won't be able to use your competitive advantage to stop them.

Really? Then the folks at Codeweavers must have sold ZERO licenses of CrossOver Office. No wait, looks like some people don't run in your social circles.

Really? Then the folks at Codeweavers must have sold ZERO licenses of CrossOver Office. No wait, looks like some people don't run in your social circles.

Really? Then the folks at Codeweavers must have sold ZERO licenses of CrossOver Office. No wait, looks like some people don't run in your social circles.

Rather than give you a whole bunch of details about what "I" do that will add a lot of noise to the discussion, I'll point you toward the actual tools that may be of help in creating your own workflow:

scarse for command-line calibration and profiles work (pre-built rpms can be had at the rpm search sites, see also patches if you want to compile yourself.)

And of course these days there are also additionals things that you can do some tasks related to color management:

Photoshop and some other tools from device vendors in the Windows world will run under Crossover Office (I use PS6 mysefl).

Some basic (very basic) stuff also exists for GIMP if you are so inclined.

VMware is helpful if you need to run applications in a real Windows environment from within Linux with device support, including support for USB.

Finally if you are a coder you may find littlecms to be useful as well.

Or Adobe needs to get on the linux train and port Photoshop [...]

The CrossOver Office folks say that they support Photoshop 7 on Linux.

> You've run MS-Office on Linux? It was faster? Have you tried it with one of the newer 2.5.x kernels, you may notice a speed increase.

I run MS Office on Linux all of the time - see Codeweavers for info. BTW, Office on CXOffice is definitely faster than OpenOffice. But I tend to use OpenOffice for everything that I can, given that it's free and all, and world domination would be a Good Thing in my opinion.

I tried OO, but people get irritated (at least) when I send them a fscked file. And since my company has a site-wide license for Office and I'm running RH Linux on an intel, for $55 I just bought Codeweaver's Crossover Office and be done with it.

I think that an open source solution for several software apps that the appartment industry uses should be developed. This is true for several other specialized industries.

This can be the only way to take back power from the vendors.

I would imagine that convincing the Apartment Managers association would be the way to go to accomplish this, but I would have to have some demo's ready. I have had good luck with setting up linux public access labs at a few appartment complexes, however I want to enhance the capabilities of those labs with full user accounts, and other features.

On the office side of these businesses they seem heavily dependant on MS Office, but not neccessarily on windows. Perhaps CrossoverOffice would be in order?

Let me take this opportunity to plug one of my favorite OSS providers - Codeweavers Use IE 6 natively...

eMight be able to get it to run under wine (yes I am joking).

Actually, SirCam runs fine under WINE, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could too. Wasn't one of Wine's goals "bug for bug compatability"?

CLARIFICATION: Deagol's comment is facetious. Notepad isn't the only app that runs on Wine. Check the Wine compatibility database.

There's no Linux equivalent to Microsoft Money, for example [...] Same with Microsoft Streets&Trips

I can't connect a Linux box to my work's VPN either -- there's no working client.

And if I managed to do so, what would I use to connect to the Exchange server to get my emails and appointments?

I like Microsoft Office

Check out Transgaming. They support a variety of DirectX games, including some 3d games iirc. They do this through extending wine to support DirectX. What I don't know is if they feed changes back into the mainline Wine. I do know that CodeWeavers do, but they don't support DirectX...

On the other hand, the age old question is that if Windows emulation works SO well on Linux, then will there ever be a commercial market for native Linux apps? I'd rather see native ports of these various apps/games, and I hope emulation is simply a stopgap...

Codeweavers?

Transgaming?

Of course you could use Wine, but this is a next-next-finish install and it runs VERY stable. They offer a trial version. I loved it and then bought it. It's only $55, and you prolly have an MS Office license anyway from the corp. where you're working.

I bought it, it's very cheap($55). It's fast, stable and of course doesn't have im/export problems. It even runs Outlook and IE!

I bought it, it's very cheap($55). It's fast, stable and of course doesn't have im/export problems. It even runs Outlook and IE!

While it has very good Word im-/export, it's not yet faultless (and won't be any time soon, because of inherent limitations of OpenOffice). And you NEED that import, because otherwise you can't exchange documents outside of your department.

They could also use the excellent CodeWeavers' CrossOver Office but then they'll probably pay more $$$ for the MS Office licenses than when they make a OS+Office deal with the MS sales reps.

Either way, they'll have to solve a problem, now or in the future. Then again, Windows brings its own host of problems.

Check again!

I have never found any graphic that I haven't been able to create or manipulate using gimp that I have on photoshop.

Then again, I used to make only part of my living with graphics creation/manipulation. I'm sure just as people with favorite operating systems and car brands, people will live or die by photoshop or gimp.

Gimp has advanced features. And plugins. It just take time to learn the application, just like photoshop. Those that don't take the time to learn the application throw in the towel and go back to their photoshop immediately, never giving gimp half the chance. And the choice of operating system/other apps should not be dependent on one application unless that one application is the money maker (what percentage of the population is a graphic artist/related field?), or unless they are carrying a bias that they don't want to get rid of.

As for word, you can run microsoft word on gnu/linux using suse's desktop linux release. Suse's gnu/linux distribution (the regular 7.3, 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 professional versions) is an excellent distro, I use them for my desktops and servers, and from reading the reviews and knowing someone who purchased it, the suse desktop linux release is excellent also.

Star Office and Open Office are not the same, although they share code. And Star Office isn't free, though it's much cheaper than ms's word/office.

What of wine? Don't know. Never had to use it yet, and I suspect with the current development momentum, and with all my application needs being met by gnu/linux, I'll never have a reason to look at it. But apparently you have a need for it, so you can look at suse's implementation of wine (which is what gets word to work on their distro), with their further development of wine, as I mentioned above.

As for power apps, let me know how much the proprietary version of snort costs, vs. the open source version, and which has better functionality, etc. Should I go through a complete list? Did you add the cost of photoshop to your lowball price? With a more realistic price for the oem version of windows, the small business retail version of office, and the retail cost of photoshop, we're now talking a thousand bucks, right? Per computer. Right?

Power app? Photoshop on windows? Take a look at slashdot today. Load Knoppix's cd with the openMosix kernel patch on a handful of my computers, as I'll be doing shortly, and my installation of gimp will rip to pieces in rendering time for any graphic you want to compare on photoshop. But of course, if you must use photoshop, you now have no excuse to not use it on gnu/linux.

Power app? Your photoshop on windows on one box, vs. my gimp on an openMosix/linux/debian cluster. Yeah. Now that's a power app! Your cost, about a $thousand$. My cost? An iso image download, and wiping a cdrw for each computer. And should I mention uptimes? In the hundreds of days for my servers, and approaching that for my desktops, only because I decide to shut them off. More specifically, if it wasn't for a reboot required for some reason by a video driver, I'd have been running my servers for close to two years without a reboot. I've never, I repeat, never, had a gnu/linux server or desktop crash on me. Minor application crashes, for less mature or beta applications, but you learn to get around them or fix them (ark still crashes on occasion, the find/properties on konqueror as a file server ocassionally chokes on multi gig file sizing, but I use the command line, which is better and faster, etc.). I don't recall EVER losing data on gnu/linux, except for hard disk crashes (raid took care of that).

How much does a proprietary windows clustering application running photoshop cost? Per box? For all necessary licenses included? Can you even do that without advanced server and other windows server/network

I have never found any graphic that I haven't been able to create or manipulate using gimp that I have on photoshop.

Then again, I used to make only part of my living with graphics creation/manipulation. I'm sure just as people with favorite operating systems and car brands, people will live or die by photoshop or gimp.

Gimp has advanced features. And plugins. It just take time to learn the application, just like photoshop. Those that don't take the time to learn the application throw in the towel and go back to their photoshop immediately, never giving gimp half the chance. And the choice of operating system/other apps should not be dependent on one application unless that one application is the money maker (what percentage of the population is a graphic artist/related field?), or unless they are carrying a bias that they don't want to get rid of.

As for word, you can run microsoft word on gnu/linux using suse's desktop linux release. Suse's gnu/linux distribution (the regular 7.3, 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 professional versions) is an excellent distro, I use them for my desktops and servers, and from reading the reviews and knowing someone who purchased it, the suse desktop linux release is excellent also.

Star Office and Open Office are not the same, although they share code. And Star Office isn't free, though it's much cheaper than ms's word/office.

What of wine? Don't know. Never had to use it yet, and I suspect with the current development momentum, and with all my application needs being met by gnu/linux, I'll never have a reason to look at it. But apparently you have a need for it, so you can look at suse's implementation of wine (which is what gets word to work on their distro), with their further development of wine, as I mentioned above.

As for power apps, let me know how much the proprietary version of snort costs, vs. the open source version, and which has better functionality, etc. Should I go through a complete list? Did you add the cost of photoshop to your lowball price? With a more realistic price for the oem version of windows, the small business retail version of office, and the retail cost of photoshop, we're now talking a thousand bucks, right? Per computer. Right?

Power app? Photoshop on windows? Take a look at slashdot today. Load Knoppix's cd with the openMosix kernel patch on a handful of my computers, as I'll be doing shortly, and my installation of gimp will rip to pieces in rendering time for any graphic you want to compare on photoshop. But of course, if you must use photoshop, you now have no excuse to not use it on gnu/linux.

Power app? Your photoshop on windows on one box, vs. my gimp on an openMosix/linux/debian cluster. Yeah. Now that's a power app! Your cost, about a $thousand$. My cost? An iso image download, and wiping a cdrw for each computer. And should I mention uptimes? In the hundreds of days for my servers, and approaching that for my desktops, only because I decide to shut them off. More specifically, if it wasn't for a reboot required for some reason by a video driver, I'd have been running my servers for close to two years without a reboot. I've never, I repeat, never, had a gnu/linux server or desktop crash on me. Minor application crashes, for less mature or beta applications, but you learn to get around them or fix them (ark still crashes on occasion, the find/properties on konqueror as a file server ocassionally chokes on multi gig file sizing, but I use the command line, which is better and faster, etc.). I don't recall EVER losing data on gnu/linux, except for hard disk crashes (raid took care of that).

How much does a proprietary windows clustering application running photoshop cost? Per box? For all necessary licenses included? Can you even do that without advanced server and other windows server/network

I'm using the testversion and I gotta say it works like a charm with Office 2000. It's quick, stable and guarantees interoperability.

And with the new licensing policy, it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore when your company has licenses.

btw screw you apple and microsoft for not providing media players for linux

Screw them indeed for not attempting to fit with everyone's pet OS. Screw them for putting their own interests first. Screw them to hell. Screw 'em. Screw 'em. Screw 'em.

Whatever.

Go purchase CrossOver or something.

I've been running Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect for about 1.5yrs on Windows. Prior to that, I was running Rational Rose - but got sick of paying out the ass for upgrades each year. EA, as it's known, rivals Rose in many ways and costs less than $200/seat. I absolutely love it. It doesn't entirely answer your question; So recently, I discovered that it works flawlessly on Linux via CrossOver Office (assuming you copy over MS Sans Serif from Windows). Check it out (there's an unlimited 30 day trial version) or send me a private message.

As far as us being responsible for the Wine fork, yes, I personally requested that Wine's license change to the LGPL; Alexandre made that change after he felt that a majority of the Wine developers supported it.

The choice to fork was made by Transgaming.

I remember Lindows being heralded as a Linux distribution that could run Windows applications out of the box. Since then, I believe any attempts at doing this have been removed. Perhaps I am incorrect, but I imagine this is a widely held misconception. Is the commercial version of Lindows bundled with CodeWeavers CrossOver Office/Plugin? If not, what's the point of the Lindows moniker? I've definitely found RedHat 9 to be a much more up-to-date/mature desktop distro, so where is the Lindows edge? Why not make some licensing deals so that out of the box, users can at least runs some of the basics?

Guess I was in too much of a hurry and didn't even notice I bungled the links. here are the right ones Home page and the change log

Guess I was in too much of a hurry and didn't even notice I bungled the links. here are the right ones Home page and the change log

I just popped over the the CodeWeavers site and saw CrossOver Office 2.0.0 Ships today also. Changelog.

Still no FrontPage or Dreamweaver support, though. :(

I just popped over the the CodeWeavers site and saw CrossOver Office 2.0.0 Ships today also. Changelog.

Still no FrontPage or Dreamweaver support, though. :(

Make no mistake, while Wine is getting damn good it is not perfect or even practical for all Windows software. Some software will probably never run under it, most will not run without some tweaking, so don't expect it to. OTOH, if you tried Wine even as late as a few months ago you might be surprised how things have changed. It all depends on what you 'need' to run.

Many of the main Wine sites have reviews of software and what works -- or how to get it to work. Keep in mind that if a comment is old, even a few weeks, it may not apply to the latest version of Wine. Usually this is a good thing, though some regressions do happen, so you might need a specific 'vintage' for a specific application.

That said, here's a good list;

1. Frank's Corner -- always deserves a mention

   The official Wine Application Database sponsored by Codeweavers

   Transgaming's WineX game list and search engine

   Wine Headquarters -- also sponsored by Codeweavers -- is the main Wine site and has the detailed and oft quoted FAQ-o-Matic

For more information, check the links on any of these sites.

Make no mistake, while Wine is getting damn good it is not perfect or even practical for all Windows software. Some software will probably never run under it, most will not run without some tweaking, so don't expect it to. OTOH, if you tried Wine even as late as a few months ago you might be surprised how things have changed. It all depends on what you 'need' to run.

Many of the main Wine sites have reviews of software and what works -- or how to get it to work. Keep in mind that if a comment is old, even a few weeks, it may not apply to the latest version of Wine. Usually this is a good thing, though some regressions do happen, so you might need a specific 'vintage' for a specific application.

That said, here's a good list;

1. Frank's Corner -- always deserves a mention

   The official Wine Application Database sponsored by Codeweavers

   Transgaming's WineX game list and search engine

   Wine Headquarters -- also sponsored by Codeweavers -- is the main Wine site and has the detailed and oft quoted FAQ-o-Matic

For more information, check the links on any of these sites.

It should work with CrossOver Plugin. It's not horribly expansive, and CodeWeavers is a big supporter of the open source version of Wine.

Mine already works under Linux using Wine without any need to port the code. These guys did a good job.

Try MailWasher, it does a heuristic scan of all mail coming in, you can quickly check to see if things have been detected correctly, and then you can actually bounce spam back, as if your mail server rejected it. This may get your email address removed from spammers' lists.

Although there is no native Linux version, there are instructions on how to get it working under WINE here

As a side note, Dirk suggested Yahoo. Yahoo uses fairly effective built-in spam protection. I currently get no spam at all (after 8 months of use), I get POP access and a 6MB mailbox on yahoo.co.nz (or 4MB for yahoo.com don't ask me why)

Now, if you are trying to avoid paying for the ICA client, but you are willing to pony up the money to Microsoft, then there is a client named rdesktop that does the Microsoft remote desktop protocol (RDP). It was reverse Engineered from scratch, and supposedly is reasonable stable. So now, you can run this on Linux desktops, but you still have to pay Microsoft a bunch of money for the apps (just because they are all running on one server, doesn't get you out of paying them for as many concurrent users as there could be).

Now, if you have to have Microsoft Applications, but not a Microsoft desktop, you might want to see the guys who develop the Crossover stuff. Now you can run a lot of Windows Apps on a Linux box that has a Wine processes running remote. The product is called Crossover Office Server Edition I don't follow the legality of this, so get a real good lawyer before you try it out. looks like CodeWeavers is saying, you get to pay Microsoft a bunch of money.

This is probably roughly the same quality, but now your talking about using X for your network transport. Which is a little awkward for remote users, as they will have to run an X server. Cygwin ships with one for Windows desktops.

Now, if all you want is a bunch of desktops you can run remote from a linux server. Get a bunch of machines that can act like X-Terminals. A bunch of old cheap PC's with a good NIC will do the job, as long as the NIC will do PXE, or netbooting of some flavor. Go get PXES from sourceforge and run it. It will net boot, and run rdesktop, a Citrix ICA client, or run as an X Terminal for you. It is very good, and runs pretty well. This is what the city of Largo, FL does. They claim it's great, grand, glorious and best of all, dirt cheap.

I don't understand your requirements. They appear to be directly contradictory. We have to have cool stuff from Microsoft, but we can't afford to pay for it. My guess is the cost of the Citrix Clients isn't nearly as bad as the cost of all of the copies of MS apps you sound like you want to run. Anyways, these are some pretty decent ways to get remote desktops. However, with Microsoft, you don't really get a break on the pricing that way, it does simplify administration of the desktop, and makes replacing broken hardware much easier.

Kirby

Now, if you are trying to avoid paying for the ICA client, but you are willing to pony up the money to Microsoft, then there is a client named rdesktop that does the Microsoft remote desktop protocol (RDP). It was reverse Engineered from scratch, and supposedly is reasonable stable. So now, you can run this on Linux desktops, but you still have to pay Microsoft a bunch of money for the apps (just because they are all running on one server, doesn't get you out of paying them for as many concurrent users as there could be).

Now, if you have to have Microsoft Applications, but not a Microsoft desktop, you might want to see the guys who develop the Crossover stuff. Now you can run a lot of Windows Apps on a Linux box that has a Wine processes running remote. The product is called Crossover Office Server Edition I don't follow the legality of this, so get a real good lawyer before you try it out. looks like CodeWeavers is saying, you get to pay Microsoft a bunch of money.

This is probably roughly the same quality, but now your talking about using X for your network transport. Which is a little awkward for remote users, as they will have to run an X server. Cygwin ships with one for Windows desktops.

Now, if all you want is a bunch of desktops you can run remote from a linux server. Get a bunch of machines that can act like X-Terminals. A bunch of old cheap PC's with a good NIC will do the job, as long as the NIC will do PXE, or netbooting of some flavor. Go get PXES from sourceforge and run it. It will net boot, and run rdesktop, a Citrix ICA client, or run as an X Terminal for you. It is very good, and runs pretty well. This is what the city of Largo, FL does. They claim it's great, grand, glorious and best of all, dirt cheap.

I don't understand your requirements. They appear to be directly contradictory. We have to have cool stuff from Microsoft, but we can't afford to pay for it. My guess is the cost of the Citrix Clients isn't nearly as bad as the cost of all of the copies of MS apps you sound like you want to run. Anyways, these are some pretty decent ways to get remote desktops. However, with Microsoft, you don't really get a break on the pricing that way, it does simplify administration of the desktop, and makes replacing broken hardware much easier.

Kirby

Check out CrossOver OfficeServer Edition.

Runs M$ Office on a Linux 'terminal server'. You still have to buy the M$ Office licenses and the OfficeServer software, but it's hella-cheaper than Citrix.

100 users for Crossover OfficeServer is something like $5,000 where Metaframe XP (with Windows CALS and Terminal Server CALS) for 100 users would be something like $60,000. You do the math :)

There is also Kapital from The Kompany. And gnucash, which is linked in other replies. And CrossOver Office, which supports Quicken.

So has anyone had good or bad online banking experience with any of these? I think all of them but gnucash are supposed to support it. I'd like to see a comparative review...

On average, each user has years of experience, probably has taken courses in using Photoshop's advanced features, and may have a considerable investment in plug-ins on which they rely to do their job. They would sooner switch personal computers before they would switch image processing software.

If this were really true, then Adobe wouldn't screw users over by releasing "upgrades" that completely f*ck up everything you know about the program, from short cuts to menu commands, to tool behavior. Face it, the reason that professionals have to keep taking courses on Photoshop is because they keep changing Photoshop - and not necessarily for the better.

Anyways, you could allow photoshop plugins if you wrote the appropriate framework into Gimp - programs such as After Effects and Premiere can use Photoshop plugins. In fact, such a plugin has been discussed on the codeweavers site...

Face it, Adobe makes money by selling software (like Microsoft.) If the current tool does the job, nobody's gonna upgrade, hence these "improvements". If GIMP does the same job without having to keep changing and throwing users off stride, and without having to keep charging upgrade fees, AND supports Photoshop-style tools, behaviors, and plugins... well hell, why use Photoshop?

I assume you mean besides the Crossover Quicktime plugin?

Oh Sh**! Of course I meant Codeweavers.

And now I even supply a link to the product's homepage: Click Here!. Should have done that before ...

Bye egghat.