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Discipline Global Mobile, the record label founded by Robert Fripp of King Crimson, has this same policy for the music it publishes - the copyright remains with the artist ("with whom it rightfully resides" IIRC).

You can read more about the admirable aims of DGM here .

Here's an excerpt:


The business aims of Discipline Global Mobile are....

* to help music come into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and/or musicians.

* to operate in the market place, while being free of the values of the market place.

* to help the artists and staff of DGM achieve what they wish for themselves.

* to find its audience.

* to be a model of ethical business in an industry founded on exploitation, oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fuelled by greed.


There's also more of Fripp's sardonic sense of humor, and one of the better explanations of "standard practice" record label-artist contracts (not for the squeamish!).

Perhaps the rate of adoption of this sort of ethical business model by the music industry will at least serve as a lower bound for those wondering about the rate of adoption in other media.

Do artists have a viable choice?

Perhaps, see here for Robert Fripp's solution.

SteveM

Soundboard mixes are not representative of what an audience might hear. Those instruments which are naturally louder in the theatre are not likely to be as loud in the P.A. Panning is also likely to be more extreme in a theatre, where audiences on the right might not hear a carefully placed shaker on the left. But there are refreshingly different perspectives, also intriguing close-ups on drum kits and internal guitar panning, which would never get past the censorship of a studio and good taste. Which is maybe one reason why bootlegs are popular......

...at Discipline Global Mobile. Fripp et. al. has plenty to say about the "industry" and how actually wound up in the hole even when Crimso was (and still is) one of the world's most progressive virtuoso combos. I say death to the RIAA and all the conventional rip-off organs of the "music industry."

As for the sound quality:

To quote Robert Fripp, talking of the B'Boom official bootleg of '94:

Soundboard mixes are not representative of what an audience might hear. Those instruments which are naturally louder in the theatre are not likely to be as loud in the P.A. Panning is also likely to be more extreme in a theatre, where audiences on the right might not hear a carefully placed shaker on the left. But there are refreshingly different perspectives, also intriguing close-ups on drum kits and internal guitar panning, which would never get past the censorship of a studio and good taste. Which is maybe one reason why bootlegs are popular......

In any instance, at least the production of the music is already paid for by the ticket sales.

As for mass-pressing the CDs to order, well, I really don't know how they're going to manage that...

As for the legality of it, well, its dependent on the artists relationship with the record label. Some labels hold to their exclusive rights (even as the same label would never release a live album since live albums became "kiss of death" to groups like Heart, INXS, and Poison (though its partially coincidental, as the same year as those live albums were released, Nirvana showed up and changed the whole pop-rock music genre). Anyways, the label would have to take a cut, likely.

As for providing this technology to bands NOT on the majors, its a significant achievement. Not that I want CC's hands in it, per se, but combine this with mp3.com, and you have an alliance that could finally bring enough promotion to a group to allow them some significant success without signing a slave-labor faust contract to a label.

For more on the Crim, past, present and future, there are three worthwhile sites to visit:

• elephant talk - reference site, home of the mailing list
• krimson news - news & blog site
• discipline global mobile - fripp's independent record label

Small artists which do not get screen-time on MTV or air-time on popular radio stations have no other way to let people "try before you buy" than the Internet. Some recording companies provide samples of music from the albums they publish, but an artist should have the right to do this him/herself if the record company doesn't. I know of only one record company where the artists own the copyright to their own work. DGM only functions as a recording and publishing company, they don't buy intellectual property. Arthur Brown made a record which sold 5 million copies in three months and never got anything for it. Somehow I don't buy it when the big recording companies say they work for the artists. They are in fact only working for artists that sell millions and then only to rip them off completely.

Fripp probably intended the company to be more a proof of concept than a cash cow; however, it was clearly intended to be a working and sustainable business.

The project was terminated April of 2002 as album sales had not begun to cover reasonable business expenses. Fripp details reasons for the failure to thrive in his online diary. Either this business model failed, or they were the wrong people for the right job.

Discipline Global Mobile still exists, now as just another artist-owned label marketing directly to existing fans.

Fripp probably intended the company to be more a proof of concept than a cash cow; however, it was clearly intended to be a working and sustainable business.

The project was terminated April of 2002 as album sales had not begun to cover reasonable business expenses. Fripp details reasons for the failure to thrive in his online diary. Either this business model failed, or they were the wrong people for the right job.

Discipline Global Mobile still exists, now as just another artist-owned label marketing directly to existing fans.

Fripp probably intended the company to be more a proof of concept than a cash cow; however, it was clearly intended to be a working and sustainable business.

The project was terminated April of 2002 as album sales had not begun to cover reasonable business expenses. Fripp details reasons for the failure to thrive in his online diary. Either this business model failed, or they were the wrong people for the right job.

Discipline Global Mobile still exists, now as just another artist-owned label marketing directly to existing fans.

King Crimson retains copyright to their works. The way they did it is to found their own record company. I don't see anything specific on the site, but the back of their CDs has a blurb on how it's wrong to take copyright from artists...

King Crimson retains copyright to their works. The way they did it is to found their own record company. I don't see anything specific on the site, but the back of their CDs has a blurb on how it's wrong to take copyright from artists...

Go away and let us ask someone who really matters, like Blixa Bargeld or Robert Fripp.

King Crimson did the same with their label, Discipline Global Mobile. (They're not just King Crimson any more, either. I believe that John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin has signed up with them, too.)

A look at their business aims is quite instructive as it sums up what they think is wrong with the rest of the industry.

King Crimson did the same with their label, Discipline Global Mobile. (They're not just King Crimson any more, either. I believe that John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin has signed up with them, too.)

A look at their business aims is quite instructive as it sums up what they think is wrong with the rest of the industry.

If anything, I'd say that an absolute blank on the disk is closer to Cage's original intent than a recording of a live performance. It forces the listener to strain his ears trying to figure out what's going on, resulting in him listening to ambient sounds.

Interesting thought. I think it depends on how you listen to the CD. If you're concentrating on something else (say, you put the headphones on while you're coding), you don't strain your ears. At a live concert, you have a more captive and focussed audience.

Of course it would be a strange person indeed who used Cage as background music. But then, I occasionally put on THRaKaTTaK while coding, so who am I to judge?

Robert Fripp, of King Crimson fame, has started a record label, Discipline Global that lets artists keep their copyrights. Check out this pagefor some general philosophy of their business. Unfortunately it doesn't say there explicitly that they do this, but it does say it on the back of one my Crimson CDs.

However the page discusses 'ethical' businesses and makes some interesting points.

Oh yes, if you're not familiar with King Crimson, go out and buy some right now!

Robert Fripp, of King Crimson fame, has started a record label, Discipline Global that lets artists keep their copyrights. Check out this pagefor some general philosophy of their business. Unfortunately it doesn't say there explicitly that they do this, but it does say it on the back of one my Crimson CDs.

However the page discusses 'ethical' businesses and makes some interesting points.

Oh yes, if you're not familiar with King Crimson, go out and buy some right now!

Robert Fripp, of King Crimson fame, has started a record label, Discipline Global that lets artists keep their copyrights. Check out this pagefor some general philosophy of their business. Unfortunately it doesn't say there explicitly that they do this, but it does say it on the back of one my Crimson CDs.

However the page discusses 'ethical' businesses and makes some interesting points.

Oh yes, if you're not familiar with King Crimson, go out and buy some right now!

What I am seeing more of these days is music staying in the hands of the artists, and not being signed away to a label to dispose of as they wish. DGM is an example of a "label" who act as distributors, helping to release music by its artists and getting it into the stores, yet ensuring that the rights stay with the artists. (No, they're not taking on new artists at the moment - I checked!)

That, in my opinion, is the way forward, but it means we're not likely to see a "one-stop shop" for music downloads. I can live with that, in the same way I can live without buying a Dell PC - I like freedom of choice, even if it means I have to do my homework...

We need to work hard to educate people how the artists they love are getting screwed by the labels. Robert Fripp does a wonderful job of exposing the horrors of the recording industry, and went so far as to create his own label for himself and other artists to publish under.

Read his description of an ethical company, and an unethical company, and see where the normal industry company fits:

http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/businessaims . html

Unfortunately, Robert has taken down the DGM mission statment, which was a scathing look at standard music industry practices.

Also, DGM is going through some rough patches of economic reality. Not playing the unethical record industry games means that the business isn't always a winning proposition. See his diary, and look at the entry for the 6th of April.

We need to work hard to educate people how the artists they love are getting screwed by the labels. Robert Fripp does a wonderful job of exposing the horrors of the recording industry, and went so far as to create his own label for himself and other artists to publish under.

Read his description of an ethical company, and an unethical company, and see where the normal industry company fits:

http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/businessaims . html

Unfortunately, Robert has taken down the DGM mission statment, which was a scathing look at standard music industry practices.

Also, DGM is going through some rough patches of economic reality. Not playing the unethical record industry games means that the business isn't always a winning proposition. See his diary, and look at the entry for the 6th of April.

Intelligent, thought-provoking, emotionally engaging...

Discipline Global Mobile

I guarantee you that anything that comes from there is all three of those things.

I guess that my point is being obscured by my example. It is in fact true that the RIAA represents a cartel of sorts, just ask King Crimson's Robert Fripp or Courtney Love and Don Henley...

I suppose that what I am envisioning is the nightmare of Disney and Sony execs world-wide. All of the things you say are kind of true if it weren't for the stranglehold producers have on artists. But my point is (and by the way, to the extent that capitalists have a conscience I say "go ahead man, go for it") that if we really actualized the potential of the internet, businesses that can be wholly engulfed by this medium due to the fact that their product can be reduced to pure information streams would be radically transformed because the content would be free.

That is what would turn the industries on their ear.

Jacques Cousteau points out to us that a sign of a degraded ecology is loss of diversification of species. Well, I find parallels in software, movies, and music, where diversity is not celebrated. But thanks for the thoughtful treatise on capitalism at its best. I can't argue with what you said.

The phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Discipline Global Mobile on behalf of the artists, with whom it remains, contrary to common practice in the record industry. Discipline accepts no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a "common practice" which was always questionable, often improper, and is now indefensible.

The phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Discipline Global Mobile on behalf of the artists, with whom it remains, contrary to common practice in the record industry. Discipline accepts no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a "common practice" which was always questionable, often improper, and is now indefensible.

No. I don't think people generally want to take from artists, but they don't seem to mind getting what they can from 'the man'. When did this seem acceptable? At what point did a schism between people and corporations occur? I think it is borne from the abrogation of a social contract between corps and people. Once they were perceived to act in their most craven interests to the detriment of people, people turned on them. What the hell, Welcome to the Machine. I don't think corporations know how to restore people's faith in them; in any case it would be bad business. The best way to regain power, for the people, is to undermine that profit-driven system. It is an anti-capitalist concept, but it is not necessarily evil, though it may be a serious threat to the status-quo. For instance, the rise of communism was at least partially a result of the fears of Eastern Europeans about capitalists. If you read Das Kapital you will learn that the persuasive argument of Marx centered on stories of sweatshops and usury and indenture: basically human misery at the hands of capitalists. Only the sound of lady garment workers hitting the sidewalks reached the government's ears. My point is that people perceive corporations as being craven, self-interested, and dangerous, no matter how many "People Do" ads we see.

So we feel justified, nay, in fact Glorified! when we beat the system and stick it to The Man. Tell me: why is Courtney Love suing the RIAA? Why did Pearl Jam try, unsuccessfully, to stop Tickemaster's monopoly on concerts ticket sales?

What true artist who hasn't lost his soul to the capitalist ideal wouldn't attack the current system?

Here, I want you to read what Robert Fripp of King Crimson has to say: Go Here. And then try to understand why we believe that once the distributor is out of the picture, then the artists will be better off than ever.

The reason is, to use Marx's words, that the distributor once possessed the "Ways and Means of Production", whereas in this day and age we all possess them, on our desktops. So the threshhold should have come down. But corps somehow convinced our elected officials to be their personal pit-bull lapdogs. I hope that it is a case of a desperate and futile trying to hold back the floodgates that will soon prove too time- and energy- consuming for our government to continue to fight, but, when I realize that this generation has allowed for more of their rights to be taken away than any other, I have less hope for the outcome. People are losing power daily.

I remember when this Napster thing was in it's infancy, before the dotcom gold rush, the attitude here at /. was one of hubris: "Those idiots can't figure this internet thing out like we can and we can always remain a step ahead of them." But I suspect that that attitude has been mollified somewhat, as the descending team of lawyers, entrepreneurs, con artists, and newbie hackers without a code, without loaylty to an ideal, took the net and re-made it into something I frankly should have, but didn't anticipate: a cultural wasteland as vapid as a TV with a mouse attached.

Well, heh, it's not all that bad just yet; the net is a great source of raw information, but I don't like the trend I'm seeing...

Of course they're corrupt. The moral bankruptcy of the mainstream music industry is only too well documented.

I say that it doesn't matter. What's really corrupt is slickly packaged, trite, utterly empty rubbish that passes for music. There's no law against that, and there shouldn't be.

The music industry are scavengers, cleaning up on second handers who don't want to listen to music they like so much as music they are told that other people like. That they ruthlessly exploit musicians is another topic.

My suggestion is that if you don't like what you hear on the radio, turn it off, and support the small labels trying to change the way the business operates; e.g. Chris Cutler's Recommended Records, John Zorn's Tzadik, or Robert Fripp's DGM. That all of the above are run by world class veteran musicians should be no surprise - they've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and the shaft.

Being a musician is about turning feeling into music, being a professional musician is performing the alchemy of turning music into money. Just be a musician.

Brought to you by Discipline

Robert Fripp just copied that article on his diary, adding the caption: My only substantial criticism of Steve's commentary is that it paints the music industry in too positive a light.

I have to put in a plug for Discipline Global Mobile, which has signed a lot of progressive rock greats (Robert Fripp/King Crimson, Bill Bruford, Peter Hammill and Tony Levin to name but a few). Check out their business aims to get a feel for their attitude towards the recording industry.

From their FAQ:

Q. Do you have anything to do with the mainstream music industry?

A. Yes, but more so in performance than records. And even there a lot of my performance activity is independent.

Once my view was to work for change from within. But at EG over a period of 21 years I became marginalised and sidelined to the partners' main interests, and my affairs were closely managed, even controlled. Now, I work alongside.

One day the dinosaurs will fall into a tar pit. There has to be a structure to carry on at that point. Mammals didn't kill off the dinosaurs: the weather changed. There are some people in positions of power who see that the weather is changing, and some of them are taking what they can for themselves before things collapse. This is short-sighted: we all breathe the same air and drink the same water.

The most rigid, inflexible and controlling structures are the first to go when the ground shakes. Discipline is flexible, adaptable, transparent, responsive and participatory.

As has been mentioned MANY times, there are many independant labels out there. We run a small recording studio in our basement, Barkin' Beaver Records . Click on the link to Gnawed Trees and there's some absolutely free MP3's there. Share 'em with your friends. There's also Discipline Global Mobile, a new label from (primarily) Robert Fripp of King Crimson (if anyone out there is old enough to remember...:)

What's tricky is that we understand it's NOT the artists, but the gawd-awful industry they're in. It's tough for the band to make any money when they immediately go into debt to the label (with the RIAA way of doing business) before they even have anything recorded. Then, it's like the old "company towns" where you owe them for everything and they would take it out of your paycheck. The artists are starting to speak on this issue now and Robert Fripp is a very articulate and bright individual with some very sound opinions on the subject.

This has been a very touchy subject for us, and we hope that some will begin to listen to reason instead of being the normal spoiled rotten web-babies crying about not getting free stuff. I am all for freedom and accessability, but I'm also pro-eating and pro-income. As some artists create and post music for free, some will charge for the music because they HAVE TO EAT!!! The music IS their day job. Just as you code for pay (if that's your job), and I network for pay, so these guys create music for pay. I just ask that we all keep that in mind.

There are many sources out there to get good independent music. I would recommend going to: Artist Shop in order to get a better idea of what is out there. There is a company called Discipline Global Mobile that produces outstanding music and operates under a philosophy of *true* respect and cooperation with artists. They don't have contracts with their artists and they don't own the copyrights to their work so that the artist maintains their right to their work instead of some label owning it. While they make mainly terrible punk music, Epitaph records is an independent label that has some good artists on it...Tom Waits and Wayne Kramer (of the mc5) namely. For better punk music check out: Dischord Records. The owner of this label is in the band Fugazi and they're a truely amazing band that I would recommend to one and all.

It's nice to see that independent artists are getting some attention from a more mainstream audience in the wake of the general disgust the world seems to feel towards the RIAA. Independent labels have helped nuture less commerical bands that have often changed the way that music is defined. Bands like the velvet underground, king crimson, and joy division were all able to make an amazing contribution to music without the aid of a large record label.

In case you haven't already been;mp3.com is a good source of outstanding independent music. Anyway, I hope this helps someone find independent music that they enjoy...music is my passion in life and I love to help people find stuff that they might like :-) In all seriousness though, people should have been looking into this stuff *WAY* before the RIAA decided to go after Napster and for some reason started a boycott (one company sues another one and we side with the one because we honestly believe that they're 100% right in what they are doing or because they are giving us something we want...hm I wonder)...independent music was always there for you to hear if you were interested...or if you cared...

Best wishes,

Jon Swinghammer

I tend to collect unusual music, from other countries. If you want to stay away from RIAA companies, the easiest way is to purchase import albums. (Not all of them qualify, of course. Arista and Virgin might be from Great Britain, but they're both members.)

One album company that I want to feature: Discipline Global Mobile is the recording company for King Crimson . On the back of their album "The Deception of the Thrush" is the comment:

The phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Discipline Global Mobile on behalf of the artists, with whom it resides, contrary to common practice in the record industry. Discipline accepts no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a "common practice" which was always questionable, often improper, and is now indefensible.

Their business aims on their website goes into more detail of how they apply their philosophy.

(Note: I am not affiliated with Discipline Global Mobile in any way, except that I love King Crimson's music.)

I tend to collect unusual music, from other countries. If you want to stay away from RIAA companies, the easiest way is to purchase import albums. (Not all of them qualify, of course. Arista and Virgin might be from Great Britain, but they're both members.)

One album company that I want to feature: Discipline Global Mobile is the recording company for King Crimson . On the back of their album "The Deception of the Thrush" is the comment:

The phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Discipline Global Mobile on behalf of the artists, with whom it resides, contrary to common practice in the record industry. Discipline accepts no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a "common practice" which was always questionable, often improper, and is now indefensible.

Their business aims on their website goes into more detail of how they apply their philosophy.

(Note: I am not affiliated with Discipline Global Mobile in any way, except that I love King Crimson's music.)

That said, I agree wholeheartedly that labels spend a lot of time screening in order to find what's most likely to sell. It's a process that's guaranteed to generate mediocrity, really.

Is the idea here that when being a musician is no longer such a potentially lucrative career, people will stop making music? That the reason for people to make music is to make profit?

Music will continue even in the absence of high profit recording industries. There is a reason that such labels as Discipline Global Mobile exist.

I will refrain from stating the impression that one might get concerning Metallica's motives after reading Lars's comments.

• Like "hacker", "nigger", or any other label, the word "hippie" has a wide and varied meaning depending on context, and can be positive or negative.
• While the popular image of hippies as ones who would completely abolish the idea of privately owned property, many have in fact worked within that context of rights, seeking instead to empower individuals despite the various constraints placed upon them by nation-states, corporate entities and thieves, control freaks, etc. not already working for the latter groups: Co-ops, voluntary standards for organic foods, private/local currencies, fighting the War on Some Drugs from the FDA to the CIA, and more.
• As another poster noted, much of the harm done by this sort of thing is in the secrecy. And as Justice Brandeis noted, "a little sunlight is the best disinfectant." They claim we have nothing to hide? Let's make sure their inner workings are given complete public exposure.

In every language, the first word after "Mama!" that every kid learns to say is "Mine!" A system that doesn't allow ownership, that doesn't allow you to say "Mine!" when you grow up, has -- to put it mildly -- a fatal design flaw.

Actually, to be slightly closer, I think of Robert Fripp as the Richard Stallman of the music world, and Frank Zappa as its Eric Raymond.

Male, female, any color, yadda -- vive la difference! But despite the value of individuality, let's not lose sight of our essential similarities -- definitely where we should be focusing our attention if we want to improve the way we interact. Life isn't a zero-sum game...or at least, it doesn't have to be.

Peace and prosperity to y'all, in all your honest endeavors.

Any news on who's doing the soundtrack this time round?

The guitarist Robert Fripp (of King Crimson fame) reported a few years back how he started work on a soundtrack in the late eighties. (More info on Fripp and his contemporaries can be found at the web site for his company Discipline Global Mobile or at Elephant Talk - an enthusiast site.)

FYI...