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http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml.....Canada sucks I live here.

Sorry to reply to myself again, I still can't find the official government page I was looking for earlier (I suspect that's partially because one of their servers pch.gc.ca is down right now) however I did find this excellent FAQ including analysis of rulings by the Copyright Board of Canada on the subject:
http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy_for_friends

I note the date is a few years ago, however the law has not (yet) changed on the subject

I like how in Canada it's allowed to copy a friend's CD they lend to you, but you can't have your friend copy the CD and give it to you. http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml So, there are quite some differences between how the media is copied and who is doing the copying. Not quite ripping your own stuff, but at least ripping things that would become yours after the fact. Even though the end result is the exact same.

So you spew random crap and expect others to use Google to prove your point?

Then again, the link that I found using Google says you are full of shit

There's already a tax on MP3 players in Canada. This is a new tax they're proposing, meaning we will now be taxed twice on an MP3 player. Why hasn't this been mentioned yet by the stupid news reporters?

Lots of pirates seem to think it's some kind of free pass for downloading whatever they like and it somehow makes it legal.

That's because it actually is legal, at least in countries with a judicial system sane enough that it can add 2+2 and get 4 - which is e.g. the case in Canada (it only applies to music, because only blank "audio" CDs are levied).

It is, and always has been, a violation to provide the copies.

No. There is no law against "making available", which is why when the CRIA filed a court order to obtain the personal information of alleged filesharing users in 2003, the judge basically said "you haven't shown that any law has been broken." Bills C60 and C61 both had provisions to add "making available" to Canadian law, but as you mentioned, both of them died on the floor of Parliament.

This provides the interesting point where if someone downloads an album via Azureus, that's legal up until the point when you start seeding.

Again wrong. If you're using Azureus then you are (by definition) making a copy for your own personal use. Once you're seeding, it's *other people* who are making the copies.

In short, up here, it's legal to download but unlawful to upload.*

True, but irrelevant in this context, as when using P2P, nobody is actively "uploading" - people download from you (which is not the same thing), but you're not actively making any copies. The copy you made went into your "downloads" directory, which you (ostensibly) made so you could listen to it. The additional copies made when other people download from you are legal, as they are (also ostensibly) being made for those people's personal use. "Making available" isn't illegal, so no laws are being broken.

That's because we pay a CIRA levy on all blank media; a "pirate tax", if you will. CIRA has already decided that I'm going to use that spindle of DVD-Rs for pirating, so I should pay a little extra at the counter to compensate them for the loss of revenue. I am not making that up.

You may be surprised that the US has a similar levy, but it applies to blank "audio" CDs only. As mentioned in the link, many other countries have a copyright levy too.

The levy doesn't only allow you to copy music you already paid for. It is the way you pay for music that you haven't purchased, you've just copied for your own use.

It's not as simple as that. If they legitimized music sharing fully, then maybe it would've been worth it. But as it is, the CD-R levy actually only covers copying music that you have somehow obtained; however, copying music that you own for others is illegal. This allows some low-volume sharing (you can legally give a CD to your friend, and then he can legally make a copy of it), but P2P or any other sort of hosting music for "public access" is still illegal.

Should we adopt an American system where unauthorized copying is illegal, and you can be fined huge amounts for doing it? I don't think so.

And why not? In the ideal version (not what U.S. has now in practice), it's a pretty straightforward system - you purchase content, and have rights to use it as you see fit. You can give your CD to a friend so he can listen, but he has to pay for his own copy. You can format-shift all you want without additional fees. And fines don't have to be so huge, either - it's not something inherent in the system, but rather the result of RIAA abusing it.

Now, I'm a Canadian, and one thing I've always been fuzzy on is exactly how the CD-R fee benefits "The Artist". My understanding, based on hearsay and no research, is that the fee is pocketed by the corporations and never trickles down to the artist.

It ostensibly goes to the artists, for a very specific definition of "artist". Only the biggest of the big - the names you know - and their songwriters get a cut.

However, I do know that the federal and provincial governments do provide funding for "The Arts"; presumably some of that must go to this mythical "The Artist", right?

Completely different entities. "The Arts" can be anything. A painting, a symphony, a guy who covers things in plastic. In the context of the media levy, "the artist" is a very specific group, see above.

I wonder if any of the CD-R fee goes to fund those grants.

None. The fee is a levy, not a tax. While the government are the ones who made the law demanding it, just like a tax, they don't collect it. It's collected and used by a private third party. Government funding for ANYTHING can't come from a levy, because it's not theirs. They hold the gun to your head, but it's another guy who goes through your wallet.

Old but informative: http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

think of how much money the record industry could make if they could just impose an arbitrary tax on all people

Uhh? you mean like the Canadian copyright levy on blank audio recording media ?

doesn't matter what we do with it but just in case someone copies something they shouldn't everyone pays. Here let this guy explain.

Umm, you have that wrong.

It's the Americans that only pay on cassettes and audio-cdr.

http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#what_amount

Not on all media.

Correct.

Not DVDR/W

Correct, for now.

not HD

Depends on what device the HD is included in. If it's in an ipod, yes you *do* pay.

not printer paper

Yes, because printer paper is a digitial storage medium, right?

oddly enough not on CDR/W "data".

Bullshit.

You mean the same Canada that taxes anything even vaguely related to music or movies -- including blank media and concert halls -- and sends that tax money straight to the RIAA/MPAA?

You know, I live in a Canada, but it's really nothing like that at all. I've never heard of the Canada you're talking about (I even searched Google for it.) Frankly I'm a little surprised that there is another country called Canada.

The Canada I live in has a levy on blank CDs, just like the USA. However none of the money goes to the RIAA or MPAA - it goes to the CPCC (Canadian Private Copying Collective) who distributes it to music artists and labels (not all of which are CRIA members.)

(Seriously, if you're going to criticize something, get your facts straight first.)

Ah but according to this, in Canada we do indeed pay extra for hard drives.

I am surprised to see that it's as small a fee as it is, given the proposed rates in the middle column.

Please FUCK OFF already. You've been bullying me ever since I've been old enough to buy my own music or more recently (2003), any blank media.

You've been bullying my friends and local businesses running restaurants/bars who have the audacity to play CD's, or turn on the radio - two things that you're already paid for. Those who operate all live music establishments, supporting local and other Canadian artists of all types (not just music) have had you send threatening letters demanding your tithe. I have been present in a restaurant when one of your hired goons strolled in unannounced and began loudly suggesting that the proprietor was engaging in illegal behaviour by not paying up, right there, on the spot. In front of a room full of customers.

To top it all off, I now have the great (mis)fortune of working in the building next to the SOCAN Toronto offices. Of course this means that the line at the coffee shop downstairs is filled with SOCAN's sometimes offensive-smelling, unkempt, unprofessional, "working here while I'm waiting for the album to hit it big" employees. Now they're taking my TIME too. Get lunch in your own damned building and stay the hell away from my wallet while you're at it.

Fuck right off,
Sincerely,
The Yuckinator

Sharing copyrighted music in Canada is still illegal, but interestingly, downloading and burning copyrighted material for your own use is not.

How can you say canada gets the epic fail when it comes to technology?

I don't see your logic. We've got some of the best laws (for consumers rights) in the world, we've got freedom of speech and protection from unlawful persecution.

On top of all that, we've got legalized file sharing in the form of a cd levy! (Yes, you americans have it too, but your laws still allow the RIAA to run rampant...) Well, so long as it is paid, there is no criminal basis for non-profit filesharing lawsuits!

A non-Canadian visiting Canada can make a private copy of a CD (even one he brought with him from a foreign country) and he will not be infringing copyright in Canada. His home state might consider the copied CD an infringing copy when he returns.

A Canadian making a private copy of a CD in another country could be infringing copyright in that country.
...
Can I legally copy music CDs for my friends?

The simple answer is NO, but you can legally copy your friend's music CD for YOUR OWN use.

The levy does not legitimize the sharing of copyrighted works over the internet without permission of the copyright holder

Private copying is legal, yes. Distributing copies to other people, even though you have paid this fee, is still not legal without consent of the copyright holder (specifically, the Canadian copyright act makes the original _copying_ of the work criminal after the fact if you do something with the copy that you made which voids a notion of private use copying).

Of course, one might think that's what sucks about the whole levy in the first place... that it supposedly legitimizes something that was actually perfectly legal in the first place (personal and private copying being supposedly exempt from copyright infringement). But since the levy applies to all blank media, regardless of form, it actually legitimizes private copying of _ALL_ forms of copyrighted works that can be copied onto such media, where the Canada Copyright act only exempted private copying of audio works from infringement.

Info about the blank media levy in Canada can be found here.

> If enough of us refuse to buy software, music, or movies from companies that deliberately frustrate their paying customers, then they will either change their strategy or they will deservedly go out of business.

Or they will lobby and push for a levy.

http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

I thought we had a CD/DVD media levy in Canada to pay for any loss due to "copying". As such, copying does NOT constitute piracy in Canada.

Of course, we don't have any such thing as a "fair use policy" enshrined in law. Is that a good thing or bad thing?

So... what do we need a DMCA for exactly?

Since I live in Canada, there's no DMCA, and I'm already paying taxes on blank DVDs, so this is not yet a problem. Still, I figure Stephen Harper and his cronies will bless us with a DMCA-like law soon.

I believe the levy is not on DVDs but on CDs and media playing devices as it DVDs are not considered Audio recording media (see table in link). And don't blame Harper, well at least not for the copyright law that the govt is trying get through as this was introduced by the previous residents of parliament.

Yes, like in Canada.

The act of putting a file in a directory(or uploading to a shred server) where others can get at it is not a crime

The act of downloading it is a different matter entirely.

Again, Canadian rules specifically allow that, on the assumption that people will be pirates, so they've been charged in advance for it. How many other countries have rules like this?

...where you are presumed to be a pirate. Broadcast from Mexico!

You don't say whether that "under twenty bucks" includes the levy

You've apparently never driven across Canada in a van with no heat in the middle of winter playing gigs in small clubs and trying to make enough off t-shirt and CD sales to buy gas to make it to the next town

And yes, many independent artist, who want nothing to do with the CPCC and the companies they represent, produce their own CDs.

[able to bring unlevied blank media across the border] I'm not sure if you are right or wrong about that.

Oh, and let us know how much this little exercise cost you in gas.

The Canadian government has given taxation authority to a collection of private businesses with no accountability to the public as to how and to whom these funds are allocated, and no recourse to members of the public who put blank media to uses that have nothing to do with their shitty music.

DVDs don't have a levy, I think because there are significant non-infringing uses and because CSS is supposed to stop people from copying them. However, there's many places where you can buy CDs for about the cost of the Levy. Even future shop has CDs for 45 cents each, with the levy being about 29 cents, according to this. Which means that about 2/3 of the cost of the blank CD is actually the Levy. Meanwhile, other stores have CDRs for 22 cents each (7 cents less than the levy) I find it hard to believe that anybody is collecting the levy with these prices, even futureshop)

Actually, copying a friends music is Legal in Canada if it's for personal use. http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy_for_friend s

Damn, here is the link http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

This is completely legal here in Canada.

wow. funny.

Want to know how the Canadian levy system mostly operates?
http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

And, from there, the hilarious bit. The U.S. ALREADY HAS ROYALTY PAYMENTS ON MEDIA.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/u sc_sec_17_00001004----000-.html#b
Apparently CDs weren't for home copying last time this was addressed - 1994 or so.

My guess is that its not being enforced or even discussed because it would actually
let you copy CDs, just like we can. Not being familar here with u.s. law ... suggest
trying to decode http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/u sc_sup_01_17.html

Please go to the source and get the facts first. http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/ For an interesting discussion on how this all works please go here http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

1) The CPCC decides who gets paid and not, and they simply won't pay non-Canadian performers, though they graciously pay non-Canadian songwriters and record companies, for what it's worth. I believe there's an application process for smaller Canadian artists, but don't know how fairly the levy is distributed.

2) It's a bit odd, but you can receive an exemption to the levy only if you have some sort of disability, or are an organization buying on behalf of the disabled.

This may seem to blatantly disregard notions of just taxation, but I don't think they maintain any delusion that this is a fair system. They are not a governmental organization, and are not beholden to democratically reviewable notions like "fair play" or "common decency."

See The CPCC homepage.
Also this CopyLevy FAQ.

Here's one FAQ on this.
The independent non-profit that collects the levy, the CPCC, has some additional information.

This levy:
a) penalizes non-infringers and discourages fair use
b) only compensates a select group who are harmed by illegal copying
c) is managed by a group with no democratic oversight
d) is confusing so as to encourage double-taxation
e) only taxes a select group of infringers, those who copy to certain types of media
f) is easily avoided through poor construction (you can legally self-import all your CD-Rs and avoid the levy)
g) other reasons?

I presented a paper in July 2005 titled "Using Wikis as a Low-Cost Knowledge Sharing Tool". The authors describe their experiences using a wiki to prepare and upgrade task-based training courses. The wiki was used both as a repository for the training materials as well as a daily communication vehicle for multiple co-authors working in Canada and Austria. If you are interested in reading the abstract or the paper, it is available on a wiki that has anti-robot password protection. Start on this page to get the password: http://saturn.eton.ca/

I believe that France collects blank media levies, similar to Canada. Perhaps they also have something relating to private copying in their copyright law.

In Canada, downloading of musical works from the internet was in fact covered under private copying last I checked. It is perfectly legal as far as I know, provided you are not also uploading or otherwise distributing. That may have changed recently though - I haven't been paying much attention to it lately and I don't have time to search for more recent sources. This is the most recent I had.

I do know that the recording industry associations here were on the same all-out assault they are elsewhere to nullify any private copying rights that Canadians may have. They are also introducing the same copy protection schemes and digital restriction mechanisms to musical CDs that are sold here (e.g., Sony BMG-Rootkit). They also lobby to have the levies raised at every chance they get, despite the fact that they continue to try and make it impossible to perform the copying that the levies are supposed to reimburse them for. So from my point of view it looks an awful lot like it's the recording industry that doesn't believe in copyright - at least not as it has been interpreted by the Canadian judicial system.

what right did you have before the EULA to keep copies of the CD after you no longer possessed it?

In Canada, this is expressly coded into copyright law. If you make a copy, then give (or even sell!) the original, you are legally entitled to keep the copy (although you are not allowed to make a copy of the copy.)

You always have the right to have those (and any other) songs in Canada. For your own use and as long as you don't redistribute them.

All Canadians have already been tried, found guilty and sentenced for copyright infringement. We've been paying a levy on blank CDs and tapes for years, thanks to CRIA. They've also tried to impose their levy scheme on ISP fees and DVDs and more, but thankfully failed. Anyway, CRIA drew first blood, but we have the right to download as much as we want.

Their latest antics just prove they want to have their cake and eat ours too. Screw em.

http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml

(pdf) http://www.cpcc.ca/english/pdf/interimDecision2005 .pdf

• The difficulty of preregistering copyright if you use Linux
• The inability to travel by air in the US if you're not willing to obey laws you're not even allowed to see
• The trouble you can get into if you behave counterculturally in redneck America

Here's more info on what we pay in Canada: http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml Check out their proposed levies if you want a good laugh! I believe you pay similar levies on older recording media in the U.S. (like tapes), but the legislation regulating that hasn't been updated to cover newer storage mediums. Lots of countries have similar legislation.

The upside of this is that the Canadian courts have ruled that the levy actually makes copying music from a source you obtained legally (e.g., a copy loaned to you by a friend who him/herself has it legally) is legal in Canada since you've already paid the copyright fee in the blank media.

Foo

At one time, the Canadian Private Copying Collective proposed a $21CDN per GB levy on iPod type devices. That was insane.

Take a look at more of their previous proposals for levies on different media here

wasn't the "pirate tax" Canadian, not French?

If you're referring to a levy on blank media, I think you'll find that most "first world" countries have one, including the USA, which had it long before Canada did.

As a Canadian, do you know who gets money from the media tax?

CPCC began making payments early in 2003

The Canadian Private Copying Collective is the non-profit agency charged with collecting and distributing private copying royalties. Established in 1999, CPCC is an umbrella organization that represents songwriters, recording artists, music publishers and record companies. These are the groups on whose behalf the royalties are collected. CPCC is not an arm of government. (Emphais mine.)

> we pay a levy on all recordable media

Yes.

> (including hard-drives)

No.

See http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#what_amount