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Anti-DMCA Petition in Canadian Parliament
Matthew Skala writes "Last month we heard that the Canadian government is rejecting some of the worst features of the DMCA (more analysis here), but with Heritage Minister Liza Frulla parroting the media-cartel lobby with a promise to "give the tools to companies and authors to sue" and persuade children that downloading music for free is morally wrong even though it's presently legal in Canada, the battle is far from won. Yesterday, Member of Parliament Peter Julian (Burnaby-New Westminster, NDP) introduced the first batch of signatures on Digital Copyright Canada's Petition for Users' Rights. This isn't just a Web click-through petition that politicians can freely ignore; more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected from Canadian residents opposed to further expansion of copyright privileges, and the campaign is hoping for many more. Additional coverage on p2pnet.net."
If something's legal, it doesn't mean it's also moral and conversely, doing the morally right thing might not be legal at the time.
The owls are not what they seem
From the article:
Mabye she could start up a hip, happening new ad campaign like the SPA's Don't Copy that Floppy.
Mabye it will be just as effective, too.
Mabye I'm a Chinese jet pilot.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
And plan to sign it, and have everyone I know sign it. I won't have my rights stepped on without a fight. Who knows, maybe parliment will even reject the WIPO changes.
Find Nearby Indie Events
And this, being a petition, is even weaker than an amendment to a bill.
I've re-parsed and summarized the article:
> This isn't just a Web click-through petition that politicians can freely ignore; more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected
Excepting for the political thieves involved in the Sponsorship scandal, sometimes we get things right. Canada has great fair-use laws and politicians seem to know we the voters like it that way.
Enjoy.
It's a good thing to stand up for what you believe in. It works out for the best, especially here in Canada where there are fewer people, so your vote counts just a bit more.
Check journal for info on Anti-TextBook, an idea by me.
Shoot, that's half the country right there alrady opposed to it!
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
My ass is headin north where people can still find freedom.
All laws should be based on morals. its the moral thing to do. otherwise the cavity of immorality will rot away the molars of our morals.
Starsucks
I honestly don't think the MP in questions gives a damn about the rights of the listeneres. But at least he is doing something for whihc people would remember him, in a positive light.
British style Parliaments have their own problems, but I think Canada has quite successfully implemented that by using the PR system.
Nothing to see here
1000 signatures! Wow! We're at .003 percent of the population! Unfortunately, I believe the various pro-DMCA lobbies have a lot more weight in the form of dollars...a few million Canadian dollars still is a lot of money.
AC comments get piped to
Isn't it about time that Slashdot gets a 'Canada' Topic Icon? We have a USA one.
I mean, how many YRO stories involve Canada doing something we wish was happening here? Don't we get more 'Canada' stories than, say, 'Transmeta' stories or 'Geeks in Space' stories?
In any case, no matter what Liz Frulla is saying to appease the lobby groups, if the legislation sticks to the proposed plan there should be no problem.
And what the article summary appears to have missed is that one of the things in the plan is to close the loophole that probably makes unauthorized downloading of copyrighted music legal in Canada.
This should go hand-in-hand with repealing the blank media levy, since it is supposed to be linked to the legalization of 'private copying', but no word on that yet.
Not that I'd expect it, though, the government has never met a tax dollar it didn't like.
and is therefore irrelevant in a Parliamentary system. Unlike the States, where Representatives and Senators can attach riders, opposition parties in parliamentary systems typically have zero say in what goes into laws.
The current Canadian government is a minority government and each of the 3 opposition parties has enough power (seats) to bring down the government. Admittedly that this is an anomalous situation (last seen in the 1980's), but it is a fact. I guarantee however that most Canadians are in no mood to waste money on an election, so any party that were to bring down the government had better have a damned good reason, or risk decimation in the subsequent election.
"Everything starts with the children," she said. "They're the ones who say `recycle' and `don't smoke.' The Internet is their world."
Ah, yes, the children, and all the terrible things that might happen to them if this isn't passed.
I hope the American lobby tries to butt in to get Canada to make more severe copyright laws because speaking as a Canadian, nothing makes us more stubborn than when America tries to make us do something we haven't made up our minds on. End result, no additional copyright laws.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think your just pissed that what is happening in Canada is something you would LOVE to see in the US. Believe it or not the US IS NOT the best at everything dispite your (and others) claims that it is. It just grinds the yanks when someone can do something better than them. And Canada as a marginal nation..I think you better look at the toilet bowl you call them United States of American and re-evalute ignorant comments such as this one....
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
If the "mods" would care to read the replies they would see that the parent post is not informative, rather it is wrong.
so it's a hardcopy petition that politicians can freely ignore. how is that different? Or do you have actual decent people as leaders up there in canada?
Peter Julian is the Member Parliament (MP) for that area. So anyone who gets 25 or more signitures for there area must take their copy of the petition to their MP, weather their in "power" or not!
My MP (Jaff Brya Victoria-Becon Hill, [Libral]) happens to be a member of the ruling party, and ther more MP's whose contsituants ask their MP's to Present the petition to Parliament the stronger it looks!
Here is the Cool part: If I am correct, only 25 signitures are needed for each MP, so the more Rideings (Canadian for an MP's electoral district) who collect signitures, the better!
I applaude the NDP's efforts but lets not get ahead of ourselves, they are the NDP. They have ~15 seats (not sure exactly the number) in a parlament with ~300! They dont have enough pull to move a chair, let alone get a bill passed. This is probably for political points with canada's left that are looking for a reason to not vote Liberal in the looming election. Ohwell... I'll probably have to start downloading music illigally soon. OhOh, but then it might be morally wrong! :-O
Cheers
Give them the illusion of choice and they will blindly follow for they choose not to make one.
But we aren't stealing music.
Downloading, copying or taping off the radio is a legally permitted activity in many countries.
In Canada we even even have the blank media levy (tax) to pay the copyright holders for their work.
Next they'll tell us getting a tax refund is stealing from the government.
well can you blaim us?? we have been living under some false pretense that we ARE the best. Maybe the UN, EU are wrong, maybe we really arn't the best... Nah
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
Peter Julian is the Member Parliament (MP) for that area. So anyone who gets 25 or more signitures for there area must take their copy of the petition to their MP, weather their in "power" or not!
My MP (Jaff Brya Victoria-Becon Hill, [Libral]) happens to be a member of the ruling party, and ther more MP's whose contsituants ask their MP's to Present the petition to Parliament the stronger it looks!
Here is the Cool part: If I am correct, only 25 signitures are needed for each MP, so the more Rideings (Canadian for an MP's electoral district) who collect signitures, the better!
Copied from MY OWN AC post cus I forgot to turn cookies on in Firefox!
There are things that fair use guarantees you can do in Canada.
Ripping mp3s from a CD that is placed into your own CD-ROM is one of them.
Downloading commercial music without payment is not.
And, no, the media levy has _nothing_ to do with either of them. Don't let anyone tell you that you are allowed to rip and download in Canada because of the media levy.
Your fair use right to rip is over here.
The levy is over there.
They are completely and wholly unrelated, and neither grants you a right to download.
Our current governing party is useless. They have no backbone, vision or plan.
I would rather have ANY of the opposition parties in power, they at least have an idea of what they want, will honestly and clearly state it, and work towards it.
The liberals keep changing depending on the public opinion poll of the day. Which is a sad way to govern.
Well... Quebec would made a better contry, but since we are not an offical contry yet, i am still happy to live in Canada!
Just printed off the petition, passed it around the department to sign and then gave it to the shipping department to mail out.
Total time: 25 minutes
Cost to me: 50cents (postage)
Feeling empowered istead of victimized: Priceless
theres some laws you cant buy, for everything else theres internet petitions
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
You should have said that it was technically impossible to steal music by downloading copies of files up there... and anywhere. It is copyright infringement. It is not forgery, theft, fraud, theft, rape, or murder. It isn't even GTA.
"and the relevant peer groups' opinion of music thievery as perfectly acceptable."
I defy you to find one message in Slashdot, usenet, or the whole wide world web that justifies music thievery. Can you meet the challenge?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
We could all learn a lot more about each other if we got rid of these attitudes and spent a little time getting to know one another's countries.
Petitions delivered by MPs to the Canadian House of Commons are routinely ignored. The government Minister whose department covers the subject matter of the petition must give a written response, but that's it. The government is under no obligation whatsoever to do anything about the petition.
There have been petitions with hundreds of thousands of real, hard-copy dead-tree signatures that received no attention by policy makers whatsoever.
Petitions make the petitioners feel good and give the MP presenting them a chance to do a little chest thumping. But that's it. I should know. I've been working for MPs for fifteen years.
I'm not Canadian, but I sent an email to every Canadian paliamentarian last weekend. A few responded. This is very important. Things are also falling apart in Norway. I sent the Storting (parliament) members a note as well. You'll find somewhat less polite versions of my messages here: www.litenverden.org
Man... Apart from that toilet bowl comment i would aggree with you... and i'm and American. That's increasingly starting to sound like "i'm and alcoholic." So. How does one go about moving to Canada. I'm about done with "Bush Co. USA".
Americans already stick a Canadian flag on their backpack when they go traveling... and now you want to stick a Canadian flag on your website? Sheesh! At least be proud of your country and proudly wear that American flag when you go traveling!
So, they still have the language-nazi problem? For all of the US problems with the Spanish language, I have yet to see a proposal as extreme as having the government punishing individuals for writing in the "wrong" language. Not even Pat Buchanan.
"Speak the language ... French!"
Why not let them speak what they want? There is no good reason at all that the "French language protection" needs to go beyond making sure French is used in government operations (inciuding government road signs). It really crosses the line to censor private individuals.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
In order to get a Icon for Canada don't start a petition. Start an Inquiry. They seem to be very popular in Canada. (And cost lots of money.)
A levy is a kind of tax. Don't make a distinction that does not exist in order to make it sound better. If it is money that the government forces you to pay to it, it is a tax. This particular money is collected by the government and then given to CRIA.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I hope this post gets Modded UP!
Of course the U.S. is going to compel other nations to follow in its stead. It produces more music than any other country in the world, so it has the most to lose in an issue like this. If it makes a decision regulating certain aspects of copyright, and Canada decides that it should be free to do whatever it wants with U.S. copyrights and music, regardless of what our Legislation and courts have said, then the U.S. law loses a lot of its effect. The U.S. has always claimed its intellectual property at an international level, and unless you're a communist, you can see why the U.S. would have an interest in protecting its own economy. Now if a country like Albania were to demand that the U.S. conform its laws to prevent copyright infringment on Albanian music, you can see the absurdity, because no one has ever downloaded a song from Albania. But you can see that the U.S. imposing laws makes a lot more sense. Anyway, if Americans are prohibited from downloading music (which I hope will never happen), then Canadians should not alternatively be able to download American music. And you can make all the claims you want that all you download is Celine Dion and Alanis Morissette, but I'm pretty sure Canada downloads a lot more music from the U.S. than its own soil.
Also, do Canadian students elect a class president, or a class prime minister? Just a question I've had for a while.
So u are a coward and u want to run away from us. I think u need to ckeck yourself out b\c if u dont like it here we dont want u here.
You know, the red and white maple leaf thingy.
Not that blue and white thingy from Kabec, eh?
Stay and fight for a D E M O C R A T I C goverment!
If you're gonna turn tail and run on account of Bush, you're no use up here when shit happens either.
Yeah. As soon as Canada elects a government they do not like, they will run to Cuba. And if an election ever happens in Cuba, they will run to North Korea. Then they will have no where else to run.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
they've got their own little congress, how sweet...
Actually, legally immigrating to Canada is a very difficult process if you don't already have family to sponsor you, or have some sort of skilled professional status, or have a ton of cash to invest.
(The political situation in the USA at the moment isn't sufficiently dangerous to qualify you for refugee status.)
Look here if you're serious:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/
It's hard to say whether or not the petition will have any effect in the end. Artists have to be paid in north american society in order to produce and at the same time the consumer expects a degree of degree of ownership over what they've bought. You can argue all you want that software, music etc can't be bought, or licensed for use, but when money has changed hands people get funny about it. There's also the issue of what the price of the media should be to properly reimburse the artist in a sustainable fashion.
The industry companies, however, are a different matter. Their business model is completely and irrevocably broken no matter what law comes down the pike. Yet, they cling to it. These same companies that were used to exorbitant profits for the longest time, the same ones that were nailed for price fixing not that long ago, are desperately trying to prop up a way of doing business that began to spiral downwards since the first consumer audio recording was possible. The internet was just the last nail in the coffin of that business model. I find it ironic that the most successful service to date, the Apple service, has been getting pressure to raise prices. Obviously Apple can make cash at a 99 cent price point. So can the industry members, they just don't want it. They want to keep things the way they are and are willing to go to court and endure bad pr to do it.
In the end though, it is all less than a finger in the dike. I wonder what would happen if big names artists at the end of their contracts began to use some of their elaborate home studios to sell direct to the public over the net? They could probably do quite well selling music at 99 cents a song without having to line some record executive's pockets. At the most, I'd say the present way the record companies operate has maybe five years left. That is regardless of whether downloading is legal or illegal.
It is (IMHO) that it is immoral to take our money and then try to convince us that we can't use what we have purchased.
speaking of morality in government this is from the Ottawa Citizen:
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 300 employees and has the following statistics:
30 have been accused of spousal abuse.
9 have been arrested for fraud, 14 have been accused of writing bad cheques.
95 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.
4 have done time for assault,
55 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.
12 have been arrested on drug related charges.
16 are currently defendants in lawsuits.
62 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year.
Can you guess which organization this is?
It is the 301 MPs in the current Canadian Parliament.
The same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line.
Starsucks
This isn't just a Web click-through petition that politicians can freely ignore; more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected from Canadian residents opposed to further expansion of copyright privileges... Emphasis mine
I'm very happy to see that somebody actually sees copyright for what it really is...A privilege...granted to you by the public, subject to revocation at every election. Let's not forget that, eh?
What?
Freedom-of-speech certainly did not benefit. What did benefit "tenfold"? Are the Quebecoi ten times richer than before?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
That is interesting, but it is granted by the government, not the public. Big difference.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Gack! Why don't they just call themselves the Rename Party and be done with it? We have a "Reform Party" in the US. It started out with its main mission being defecit-reduction under Ross Perot, but evolved into a "We Hate Mexicans" party under Pat Buchanan.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"I'm Burke, I work for the company"
The quote might not be accurate but the power of corporations keep growing lately. Especially in the US where the laws keeping corporations in check are too weak.
A lot of conflicts where people died were partly because of corporations. Corporations get too powerful, violence has to happen to get the situation back to normal/livable. Happened in history lots of times. Mussolini said something like: "Fascism can be more accurately called corporatism"
It's happening right now as well, there was this piece in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911" where the population in a South-American country/province rebelled against a corporation and it's corrupt helpers. They were forbidden to collect and use rainwater from their own roofs because the water company wanted to sell more water at starvation prices.
I hope we can fight off software patents in Europe, I hope Canada can fight off this law. Better to do it now peacefully than having to do it violently later. Might already be too late for the US. Incredible how the doofuses there vote their enemies into government.
The most important thing is to keep thinking logically and optimistically. Keep an image of what you want in your head and things will work out. For example, think: "it's not too late for the US, things WILL work out better if we can just convince people of the truth, the brainwashed can not be convinced should be labeled not sane" etc.
- -- Truth addict for life.
my last place of residence was in Burnaby-New West.
The only way to fight this is to fight hard.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"then why is there such a heavy infulence from Quebec? and yet you want more??"
You have me confused with another. I came into the Quebec argument as a non-Quebecoi questioning how that province denies freedom of personal expression based on ethnic heritage.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Parliament is currently being entangled in the sponsorship scandal, and it is very well possible that the opposition parties will force a general election on the minority government as more dirt is uncovered.
They can pass all the laws they want about copyrights for digital media. They will be largely inneffective as a deterrent.
Until someone breaking such a law shows up in court, this will all mean nothing anyway. I would prefer the petition succeeds, but sooner or later, the entire damn thing will come crashing down simply because the law that the petition is against is essentially unenforcible anyway.
Trying to pass laws preventing computers from copying information and using the internet from sharing that information is like trying to pass a law saying you can buy scissors, but cannot use scissors to cut things.
It makes no sense to pass a law preventing you from using an item that you are permitted to own in a manner it is designed to be used.
END COMMUNICATION
sven's old riding?
One of the things in the list however deserves attention: "117 have bankrupted at least two businesses"
As a body, they have bankrupted thousands of business due to enacting of regulations and punitive tax increases.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Of Canada doing something right, which american could not.
My congratulations go out to the organisers of this, and to the canadian people as a whole for having the stomach to say " enough is enough "
Now I feel even better that I voted for this guy last election day. I also signed the petition and if you live in Canada I urge you to do the same.
-- Please insert another quarter
Give us an inch and we'll take 3,855,102 sq. miles.
And for my fellow Canadians too lazy to do the math: Give us 2.54 centimetres and we'll take 9,984,668.34 square kilometres.
I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
Hum, Glad you can't spell C A N A D A but be carefull. The US might just get the wrong country..oops did I say that out loud? Doesn't surprise me that comments like that come from Anonymous Coward(s)...
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
Don't yanks get exactly the same benefit from their Congress, and then the same benefit again from their Senate (our Senate isn't even elected, it's fucking appointed)? The president is essentially a figurehead. It's Congress and the Senate that wield the real power in the states if I'm not mistaken.
Why would we hide?
We have been in the same place since 1867, and most of your fellow countrymen still can't find us.
Oh, and operation "go fuck yourself", starts with the closing of your #1 (or #2 or #3, depending on year) source of foreign energy. Hope you trade in that Hummer H2 for a bicycle.
Whether or not I like it, it is still a tax. Also, you are forgetting thata more traditional (federal sales tax) is applied to the full price of the item, including the levy.
Here are some other references to the tax:
"Federal Government to Levy Blank CD-Rewritable Media". (a law site: if lawyers don't know what a tax is, who does?_ Elsewhere,
Stereophone (which knows CD's) says "Canada Decides to Tax Blank Media".
TWShepherd.com cuts through the BS: "...to increase the tax (they call it a levy in obfuspeak) on blank media...".
A Canadian legal site, lawconnection.ca: "Board is responsible for setting the levy or tax on blank CDs and cassettes..."
"The levy/tax is problematic in that it is quite abstract" - canadianheritage.gc.ca
"..with an increased levy or tax on all blank CDs...." - cbc.ca
"I have represented opponents to Canada's blank audio recording media levy, which is ordinarily referred to as a tax." - ccfda.ca lawyer site.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
What browser are you using, Mr. Dumas? On my screen, all the bullet-characters line up with the leftmost letters of the non-bullet lines. Perfectly.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"I'm Burke. I work for The Company, but don't let that scare you. I'm really an OK guy."
On both MSIE and regular Mozilla, the bullets line up with the rest of the left margin.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Let's see... according to Frulla - the children are right about recycling, smoking and experts on the Internet.
BUT
She and her generation know more about the morality of downloading music.
Non sequitur - Norman coordinate...
Yeah, the kids have got it right. When they take charge things like the DCMA will seem as incomprehensible as forcing darker-skinned people to sit at the back of the bus. I can imagine Frulla, Hatch et al sitting in their nursing homes saying - "we didn't know any better - that's just the way everyone thought back then..."
>All of freedom is being free to choose. That's it.
In the words of Geddy Lee (a Canadian, so this post is certainly ON TOPIC):
DMCA for Canada
Friday March 25, @09:31PM
Please write your MP on this matter. Use my letter below if you don't want to write your own.
Send your letter for free (no postage necessary), to your MP at the following address:
[your MP's name] M.P.
House of Commons
Ottawa ON K1A 0A6
Find their email address, but write by paper mail too. Look it up.
Dear Mr. Breitkreuz
To summarize the issues in this letter:
1. Internet Service Providers should not be required to keep extensive logs of private and legal online communications.
2. The government must not stop Canadian citizens from making personal-use copies of their legally purchased software, music, and movie media.
Background:
Here is the reasoning:
The purpose of the Copyright Act is to support creativity and innovation in the arts and culture. To design a new Act on the failed and draconian Digital Millenium Copyright Act of the United States of America, would be a disaster for Canadian culture, libraries, and innovation. Also our court system could become clogged with law abiding citizens who make personal use copies of their music, software, and movie collections for no personal financial gain. An implementation of the proposed changes to the Copyright Act would unleash another "Gun Registry boondoggle" onto the Canadian people - creating criminals out of law abiding citizens at the expense of Canadian taxpayers. Libraries and schools will be made to pay fees they can not afford to litigation-happy organizations like the Canadian Recording Industry Association.
Internet Service Providers like Sasktel should not be made to keep extensive client usage logs for possible future prosecution by various copyright-based industries. I don't want to pay for that system to be put into effect, and I don't think most people do. The phone companies are not forced by the government to record the content of phone conversations, only police can do that with a proper warrant. ISP logs are going to be equivalent to phone-taps, and that's a violation of my privacy. It's doing the job of the police, and is for the sole benefit of an industry basing its profits on an outdated business model that is no longer realistic for the Canadian government to protect.
It is completely unfair to be paying a levy to artists organizations for purchasing blank CD media to make home-use private copies of legal CD music, and now to also be unable to legally copy the music I've paid for off of Digital Rights Managed CDs. If copying CD music is going to be illegal, why is the government collecting money from the product for an illegal activity? I'm satisfied that the current levy is helping to compensate artists from illegitimate copying, and no new law is required to prevent me and other people from making sensible backups of our legal music, software, and movie collections.
Your representation in the House of Commons on this matter is greatly appreciated by me, and other supporters of personal liberty and innovation in the arts. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
my name
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
you expect progress from the most socially backward party in the country?
also, the ontario liberals are not the federal liberals. just like the bc liberals aren't the federal liberals, or even liberal period.
sum.zero
Real, upstanding, proud citizens of the USA who carry themselves with humility, share their many gifts with their neighbours, and accept our many differences with grace are much loved here. I mean, we're family, right? I wouldn't discard my brother because he doesn't agree with me. In most places I've visited in the States, the people are great.
Yes, you're powerful. Yes, you could roll up here one night and take us out. But you aren't our judge, just as we aren't yours. When you speak about your neighbours in the future, do so with the respect most of us would still give you.
==
How America looks from up here
WOW You're an idiot. WOW. First of all, I don't think Canadians hate the US. The entire world outside the US hate your politics/policies. They are not alone. Most democrats in your own country feel this way too. Team America: World Police sums it all up. That's how we feel. That movie is American if you didn't know.
:D I think we just don't want to provoke attacks by sticking our noses where they DO NOT belong.
Next, too bad for you that we don't want to play with your missle defense joke. And cowerdice regarding the war?? If you really believe you're the most powerful nation in the history of the world wouldn't we be REALLY brave for turning you down?
I'm not sure where all these Americans are getting this idea that Canada is turning socialist (or why they think that would be bad - seems to work great for Spain). They were probably misinformed by some US media source. Happens often enough. People worldwide make the mistake of believing what they see on TV.
Canadians hate freedom? Last I checked, we have more choices in terms of politcal parties, and if a province wanted to separate (not that I support that at all) they could with enough votes. They have the choice. They have that freedom. Our government can't tell us what's what - isn't that why you so desperately wanted to leave Britain in the first place? lol Now we don't have anything to do with Britain AND we have more freedom!
Wow, what a prize you are, ars-pick. Do some research before you go spouting off a bunch of republican propoganda.
I am writing to you, a fellow Canadian to clarify on your statement of music downloading being morally wrong. As a 15 year old computer analyst and repair technician and programmer. I have my have been keeping track of such things like: TCPA, MPAA, RIAA, and the DMCA and I am against each organization myself. I am an advocate of free open source software, the right to online privacy, etc. I am aware of my rights and what is wrong, and what is wrong, and currently as you know, music downloading is legal (for now) in Canada.
In regards to the article '/Heritage minister pledges anti-downloading law'/ [http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pa gename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid= 1112612464877%5D and a recent Slashdot posting, you seem to believe that though music downloading is in fact legal, it is morally wrong. If I am incorrect, please correct me, however, if not, I disagree with you. I do not believe it is morally wrong, in fact many well known musicians support Peer 2 Peer and music downloading, and their claim is any exposure is good for an artist.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/25http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2005/03/a
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6151.cfm
A few references as you can see, exposure is good! I will agree with you on the fact that, yes, many artists despise Peer 2 Peer, but my opinion stands like this. I download a music CD, I listen to the album to determine whether it is what I want or not [sometimes 10 second samples of the song from Amazon does not quite cut it] and if it is in fact an album I like, I go and buy the album to support the artist. This is where P2P really makes an impact, whether you agree or not, I will continue to download CD's because I personally do not want to waste my hard earned money (and at 15, it is hard earned) on a CD I may end up disliking.
But what do I know, I'm just a kid.
It's a tax.
*sigh* can you not read? It is *not* a tax, it is a levy. They are Two. Different. Things.
It is through government force. If it wasn't, no one would have to pay it, would they?
No, but it *still* wouldn't make it a tax.
Whether or not I like it, it is still a tax.
No, it is a levy. Just because you want to call it a tax does not make it a tax.
you are forgetting thata more traditional (federal sales tax) is applied to the full price of the item, including the levy.
I'm not forgetting it, it's just not relevant.
You pay tax on pretty much everything, does that make *everything you buy* a tax? By your logic, your car is a tax, your food is a tax. Your TV is a tax. Paying tax on something means that it is a taxed good or service. It does not *make* it a tax.
Here are some other references
Just because someone misuses a term, does not make that term correct. And you provided no links - just text. Please provide *links* where someone *who actually knows what the words mean* states *that it is a tax and not a levy*.
I'm not kidding, I really DO Find it Funny!
Just FYI guys, downloading copyrighted music is NOT legal in canada.
It's still copyright infringement if you don't already own a copy.
Again, any culture that requires censorship in order to preserve it is not worth preserving. If it can't survive by allowing people basic freedoms of expression, what is it worth?
Besides, you are incorrect. The channels are banned because the Canadian government wants them censored. I've talked to many Canadians about this, and most of them want the personal choice to receive evil "outside" channels. It is the basic right of any individual in a free society, even if culture-nazis want censorship.
"It's to protect our sovereignty from a valid threat that is the United States of America"
If Canada is so "threatened" by the prospect of information flowing freely, what is it worth? If this is really true, Canada has vastly inferior culture that can only survive by draconian laws, and truly belongs on the "ash heap" of history or in a museum.
And what about the soveriegnty of Canadian citizens who want to be able to make their own choices?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
The majority elected a governement to make that non sense and clear abuse and assimilation method to a stop... And that is why there are law to try to ensure that a German version of things are available... due to an vast abuse on the part of the Jews in Germany."
You change 6 or so words and see what happens.
I have not heard in my thirty odd years one succinct, consise argument as to why Quebec should separate. Not one. I asked my Quebec relatives the same question and they could not either. They just throw their hands up in the air and say something to the effect that they currently receive a raw deal from Confederation.
As far back as you go in Canadian history be it Lower Canada or Quebec, the distinctive and unique nature of Quebec has been recognized and furthered by careful consideration and compromise on the part of the rest of Canada. There is no real grievance that Quebec has to separate. They have control of their own immigration and other unique powers, a substantial cash flow from the Federal Government in the form of tranfer payments and a unique and favored position in Canada. In short, they are stronger in Canada than out.
The handful of arguments that have been presented sound like those from a disgruntled teenager who hasn't grown up to realize the wisdom of his parents.
I think you are leaving out most of the countries in the continent, which happen to speak Spanish, including Mexico which is much more populous than Canada.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
First, let me clear something up: it is not legal to copy music because of the levy. The act of copying music for personal use became legal before the levy was imposed. The levy was imposed only afterwards, to compensate the music industry for the preceived loss of revenue from the legality of copying.
Morality and the Canadian Copyright Act: The underlying philosophy of the Act is that no matter what we do, people will copy music for free, and if we make such an act illegal, there's no way to enforce it, so why bother. The Act basically tells the music industry to find some other way to make money, e.g. the levy, or live performances, or selling t-shirts, or just don't charge the cost of 4+ happy meals for each CD. It doesn't say that it's moral, it just says that it'll be as stupid to outlaw it as it would be to outlaw people standing outside stadiums and listening to a concert.
But never, never forget: (1) the levy came after the Act. (2) It's not legal because of the levy, it's just legal to copy music for personal use, levy or not.
they have to damage control every couple of months because a party member makes a racist or homophobic comment...
notwithstanding clause threats over the definition of marriage...
significant factions that would like to repeal abortion laws...
and on and on...
sum.zero
they are the most socially backward.
sum.zero
Why are click through license legally binding yet a click through petition is not considered to have the same force?? Both involve the same action..
There are just some things they see as wrong and would like to fix.
I think working to solve problems is a responsible thing to do. The only question is what side of the debate you're on.
Sitting back and calling the other side names isn't the way to accomplish it.
Parent is not merely funny but rather insightful as well. The quickest way to get Canada to keep things the way they are is for GW to make some public statement/appeal.
The largest reason Canada decided to nix participation in the missile defense shield* after making positive noises for so long was George W Bush. Someone needs to inform him that he personally doesn't play well up here public opinion-wise, and tell the entire US that trying to force the Canadian hand merely pisses us off. If Bush hadn't jumped Martin in public pressing him to join the missile shield, Canada would almost certainly have acquiesced (but quietly, and without fanfare.)
So please, by all means George/US Corporate Interests, step right up to that mike.... : )
*irregardless the fact that the missile shield will not work against any of the newer ICBM systems out there Janes Defense and will almost certainly lead to the weaponization of space (a longstanding concern or the canadian population.)
racism and homophobia are not sides in a democratic debate. please reread the charter of rights and freedoms.
name calling? i stand by my statement. when a significant portion of a party wants to take away the established right to self-determination from women, they are socially backward. especially when the numbers don't back them.
sum.zero
Right to self determination, nobody is arguing that. There is however a debate on if/when and wheter or not abortion becomes murder.
This is a VERY fuzzy area, particularly in the case of partial birth abortions where the child is capable of a separate independant survival.
As long as you're sharing blood, it's your body to do with what you want, but I feel that many women don't understand the serious risks of abortion before they get one. Working to ensure we have informed consent before this potentially fatal surgury is critically important.
Suggesting that informed consent is backwards is laughable.
Is the current lack of information on the risks of abortion somehow progress?
As for the charter http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/
Section 15 (1)
Discrimination on race is in the charter of rights and freedom.
Gay marriage is not in there, nor is sexual orientation. I really don't care what consenting adults do. But don't play this silly game that there is some charter or moral right to it.
The USA's Bush regime has determined that Canada
has been taken over by "terrorists", and that
invasion of Canada is both inevitable and emminent.
Quoted from unamed sources within the White House
staff: "First, the Canadians started dumping their
beef and lumber in the USA at below cost. Then
they refused to help out in the Iraq war. They
rejected joining Dubya's new Star Wars program.
And now they are threatening our entertainers'
IP property rights and profits. As soon as we
get anough illegal Mexican immigrants to form a
new Army brigade, we will be seeking a regime
change in Canada".
Stay tuned for news as it becomes available...
women are already counselled about the potential effects and nearly zero percent enter into this choice casually. "informed consent" is misdirection to insert an outside morality into the proceedings. imho, it is the height of hubrous to assume that you have some grand insight that they are missing. oh if only you just had a chance to tell them, then they'd see...
sexual orientation was added to quebec's human rights act in 1977.
sexual orientation wass deemed to be 'read in' to the charter by the supreme court in 1995.
sexual orientation was added to the federal human right's act in 1996.
your silly game is already reality in most of the country. the supreme court has oked the change of definition and found that only allowing a civil union is discriminatory.
i notice also that you chose to ignore the underlying racism i have also mentioned.
sum.zero
Might not make a difference, but i have to try at any opportunity im presented.
I have more to say, but most of you all have said it already to some degree or another.
Go Canada!
bad apples in every barrel, but the ratio is the thing...
sum.zero
You referred to "the continent". The continent the United States and Canada are on includes Mexico and Central America.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"I'm not forgetting it, it's just not relevant"
The specific problem mentioned is where this tax causes you to pay more in other taxes.
"Just because someone misuses a term, does not make that term correct. And you provided no links - just text"
I provided the sources for most of those quotations that accurately call a tax a tax. If you think I am a liar, go look them up. Otherwise, there is no reason to.
"You pay tax on pretty much everything, does that make *everything you buy* a tax?"
No. Only when the government forces me to pay an extra fee on it that has nothing to with anything. This is a tax like any other. The government forces the person to pay the government money, and then the government takes this money and gives it to another. You are trying to get off on the technicality that while the government forcibly swipes this money, it does not technically pass through government hands on its way to the Canadian copyright organization, which receives the money as a massive payment of corporate welfare. That is what it boils down to: taxation to fund corporate welfare.
These two situations are the same thing:
non-levy tax: The government forces you to pay it money when you buy a CD. The government takes this money and gives it to a copyright organisation.
levy tax: The government forces you to pay the tax directly to the corporate welfare recipient (the Canadiana copyright organisation) without the money passing through government hands.
The above situations are both taxes. The accounting is simpler with the tax you call a levy, however.
"By your logic, your car is a tax"
You are babbling. Wild analogies that are never explained or justified do sound like that.
"*who actually knows what the words mean* states *that it is a tax and not a levy*."
If they know what words mean, they won't be denying that this specific kind of tax is a tax.
"*sigh* can you not read? It is *not* a tax, it is a levy. They are Two. Different. Things."
Typing like Shatner when you are saying something that is entirely incorrect does not make it any more true.
"Just because someone misuses a term, does not make that term correct"
Words for you to live by.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
While I also have extreme distaste for any government involvement in media or "official government news, why not try this approach? I find it much less onerous than censorship. It would protect the indiginous broadcast industry, while it would not trample on the basic rights that free citizens have in other countries:
Increase tax funding to the CBC/etc and make it more robust, with more channels.
Force the cable TV carriers to carry it. Make sure it is broadcast to most Canadian homes as well over the air.
Lift all bans on "outside" channels.
Then, your native industry is protected, and "Canadian Content" is available to all, who still have the freedom of choice.
If even this is not acceptible, what of the Web? If TV viewers abandon TV and become Web users, do you propose a sort of "Great Firewall" to "protect" Canadian web content?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
If someone is completely deaf, it is not as if they are going to be ripping and burning for their own use. "Here. Pay this tax because you might listen to copied music on the CD."
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
this text is not here.
sum.zero