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Now, I know that version N-1 and N-2 is maintained for a while. High Sierra gets extended support until September 2020, Sierra gets extended support until September 2019. It means that our iMac will be definitely out of support after 10 years of use. I admit, that's great in the PC world. Granted, I have a Dell XPS L502x that is approximately that age (2011, I think) and works still perfectly fine with any modern x86 operating system (Linux,Windows). Computers these days can just last a very long time without any hardware reason to decommission them.

Anyway, your MacBook Pro (MacBookPro3,1) only qualifies for El Capitan, which is unsupported as per last August (Wikipedia, look in the righthand overview "support status"). This still matches with your statement that you got an update "a few months ago", but, I hate to break it to you: it probably was the last update you'll ever see.

Let's hope. The first Gen i7s didn't have integrated graphics. It comes with a Radeon card, but I need to look up which one. Radeon 5750. So if it's a hard requirement, this iMac will be obsoleted. Perfectly fine hardware.... *sigh*

It's been unmodified for 3 years. 2015 was the last major update (CPU upgraded from Haswell to Broadwell, faster PCIe bus for SSD, Thunderbolt upgraded to Thunderbolt 2).

The "2017 update" actually just replaced the Broadwell CPU with another Broadwell CPU that's 0.2 GHz faster (and was available in 2015). You'd think they could've at least updated to Sky Lake (available late 2015) or Kaby Lake (available late 2016/early 2017). But apparently they didn't want to go through the effort of designing a new mainboard for a newer CPU, so they did the cheap and easy thing and just swapped one Broadwell CPU for another and called it a "new" model.

It's been unmodified for 3 years. 2015 was the last major update (CPU upgraded from Haswell to Broadwell, faster PCIe bus for SSD, Thunderbolt upgraded to Thunderbolt 2).

The "2017 update" actually just replaced the Broadwell CPU with another Broadwell CPU that's 0.2 GHz faster (and was available in 2015). You'd think they could've at least updated to Sky Lake (available late 2015) or Kaby Lake (available late 2016/early 2017). But apparently they didn't want to go through the effort of designing a new mainboard for a newer CPU, so they did the cheap and easy thing and just swapped one Broadwell CPU for another and called it a "new" model.

https://everymac.com/systems/a...

Apple officially supports a maximum of 4 GB of RAM, but third-parties have determined that it actually supports 8 GB of RAM running Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard" and 16 GB of RAM running OS X 10.7.5 "Lion" or higher and the latest EFI update.

Pre-Installed MacOS: X 10.6.3
Maximum MacOS: Current

So update EFI, upgrade RAM to 16GB, swap HDD for SSD and install the latest macOS.

Problem solved.

That upgrade in Apples world means buying a new OS.
Years ago in our household we had one Apple that had the same issue, just a few years old and the only way to be able to run a recent browser was buying a new OS.

Yeah, that was a problem for a while - Apple was charging $20 for 10.7 as I recall. Later versions we all free. However, even if the machine in question will not do an upgrade jump from 10.6 to 10.13, Apple provides a free download for 10.11 here: https://support.apple.com/en-u... and one can upgrade for free from 10.11 to 10.13. With the proper firmware updates, this machine seems to be able to do "Internet Recovery", so one should be able to install or update it even with a bare drive and no OS installed.

https://support.apple.com/en-u...

According to https://everymac.com/systems/a... the MacBook7,1 supports up to 16GB of RAM and can run the current version of macOS, "High Sierra" 10.13. Put in a SATA SSD and this machine is perfectly capable of running all the latest macOS software at very acceptable speed.

I agree with others who have suggested upgrading the HDD to an SSD. That makes a huge difference even for a machine that may not fully support the fastest SATA speeds. According to this web page (if I have correctly identified the H/W) https://everymac.com/systems/a... this Mac can hold up to 8GB RAM. If it presently has 5 GB, it is presently populated with a 1GB stick and a 4GB stick. I would try to match the 4GB stick and bump the RAM to 8GB.

With this H/W you can reasonably run any Linux distro so the choice comes down to choosing a distro and desktop suitable for a new user. Ubuntu and Mint are both good candidates for easy installation. I would avoid Ubuntu 17.10 as it has a *lot* of new stuff like Wayland by default and a return to Gnome from Unity. 16.04 would be a good choice and it's an LTS version meaning it will be supported for a long time.

For a desktop I would consider XFCE or Mate. Both are fairly functional without being too bloated. Some people like the default Unity desktop on Ubuntu which was originally targeted at netbooks. I cannot comment on KDE because I don't use it but there are those that like it a lot and report that it is not a resource hog. Someone mentioned fvwm2. That was my window manager of choice 20 years ago when I ran Linux on a 486 with 4 MB RAM and a few GB of disk drive. I recommend a full blown modern desktop environment for ease of use for a new user. The nice thing about Linux is that you can install and test drive any of these desktops and choose the one to try from the login screen.

It can even run macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) (the current latest version).

Yep it will indeed However you can't install 10.13 directly on a system with 10.6.8 you need to be on 10.8 or later but you can got to 10.11 and then to 10.13 Check out https://support.apple.com/en-a... for the link to download 10.11.6 from the appstore for free.

It can even run macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) (the current latest version).

Weren't the last G5 PowerMacs watercooled?

I totally forgot that Apple did do that...

Though looking at the reports of leaking I can see why Apple has been reluctant to bring that back. Who knows, with the new Mac Pro later this year maybe it will be back (hopefully better sealed).

Worse yet, they put the 1000 W power supply right under the leaky radiator..

It better write fast because you will NEVER be replacing it!

Since it is socketed that is exactly wrong. It's just as easy to replace as RAM if you have the right chips...

Why would you think OWC will not have an upgrade for it after a while? They have done that before with the Mac Pro, which has a custom SSD chip as well...

I'll take your response to mean your write speeds are about 10x slower. Which is fine, but some people would like lots faster disk I/O.

Weren't the last G5 PowerMacs watercooled?

I totally forgot that Apple did do that...

Though looking at the reports of leaking I can see why Apple has been reluctant to bring that back. Who knows, with the new Mac Pro later this year maybe it will be back (hopefully better sealed).

I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

'Snot true

https://everymac.com/systems/a...

This model is powered by a 14 nm, 64-bit "Seventh Generation" Intel Mobile Core i5 "Kaby Lake" (I5-7360U) processor which includes two independent processor "cores" on a single silicon chip with 64 MB of eDRAM embedded on the processor die. Each core has a dedicated 256k level 2 cache, shares 4 MB of level 3 cache, and has an integrated memory controller (dual channel).

https://ark.intel.com/products...

Max Memory Size (dependent on memory type) : 32 GB
Memory Types : DDR4-2133, LPDDR3-1866, DDR3L-1600
Max # of Memory Channels : 2
Max Memory Bandwidth : 34.1 GB/s
ECC Memory Supported : No

2009 Mac Pro supported OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard http://www.everymac.com/system...

They were both 15" and there was a 13" - MacBookPro9,1 was the 15" non-retina, MacBookPro9,2 was the 13", MacBookPro10,1 was the 15" retina.

All three models released on 11 June 2012.

They were both 15" and there was a 13" - MacBookPro9,1 was the 15" non-retina, MacBookPro9,2 was the 13", MacBookPro10,1 was the 15" retina.

All three models released on 11 June 2012.

They were both 15" and there was a 13" - MacBookPro9,1 was the 15" non-retina, MacBookPro9,2 was the 13", MacBookPro10,1 was the 15" retina.

All three models released on 11 June 2012.

This shouldn't be insightful, because it's wrong.

That generation of Macbooks still had upgradable ram. I have a 2011 and upgraded the ram to 16GB just fine.

http://www.everymac.com/system...

Don't get me started on Apple's current shit-tastic lineup, but the 2010s, give or take, were the golden age of macs that kicked ass.

Not if you're copying a 17Mb file at the time time (but I'm not sure I want to start a holy war over that...)

In 1997 with 1024 times less RAM than we have today.

http://www.everymac.com/system...

Apple's biggest problem is that they see Ives as the second coming of Jobs and keep letting him focus on nothing but thinness and lightness. Professionals don't care if their machine has to be a little heavier and thicker if it can accomplish the job they need it to, but Apple's modus operandi is telling people what they need rather than actually fulfilling the market need.

The new MBP is evidence of this. It's thinner and lighter and had to make hardware compromises for it. Less ports. 16GB of RAM cap. Battery life that's okay but not even at the same level as the previous machine from years ago.

Further they're screwing up in the release cycle. Professionals often can't wait multiple years between upgrades, and without a proper release cadence a professional needs to guess (and potentially bet the farm) on when to upgrade. That doesn't leave them with confidence. Couple that with a bad cycle and you have a lot of very legitimately spooked people.

Bullshit.

How can you POSSIBLY say "Bullshit" when everything the parent said is completely accurate? You're gaslighting other people to a level that would make Trump proud.

Apple HAS sacrificed functionality in order to get improved thinness. They've even fucking admitted it. The 16GB hard cap is just one of those compromises.

And Apple's release cycle *IS* messed up. Did you not notice that Apple didn't release ONE SINGLE desktop this year? I wanted to replace my aging Mac Mini for something new. Well guess what? I FUCKING CAN'T CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T MADE ONE. Don't believe me? Here you go. They have released nothing this year apart from their gimmicky new macbooks: http://www.everymac.com/system...

Apple can't even be bothered to tell people, "Yes, we are no longer making this." so that they can revise their purchasing decisions. When they discontinued the xserve, they waited literally YEARS before finally admitting that they did. They just let people stew in their own juices like assholes. I'm sorry (not sorry) but if I wanted to gamble, I'd go to Las Vegas, not to an Apple store.

Someone else already made a very thorough rebuttal to the comment you linked to if you need better details. I can't be bothered because I've had this argument with you before and I've lost patience with your gaslighting.

The fact is, Apple is run by flaming assholes. They've always been flaming assholes. But people let that slide (me being one of them) because they made damned good hardware and software that was head and shoulders above everyone else. But now, for whatever reason, they refuse to do that anymore. They've decided that they would rather take the piss out of their customer base. And the results we're all seeing is just the beginning if Tim Cook doesn't pull his head out of his ass real soon and resume making hardware that people can actually use.

I had a 2006 MBP, the mag-lock charging cables (mine and my colleagues) lasted about 6 months - bad strain relief design, something Apple continued for over a decade into the early iPads.

Just a small accessory, sure... now let's talk about the exploding batteries (replaced under warranty, if you knew to ask). Growing pains, yeah.

Now, let's talk about the lack of proper heat-sink compound on the GPU... 18 months into life we started having heat-death of the GPUs on those models - no warranty repairs offered here, would you like to purchase a main board replacement for 80% of the cost of a new laptop?

O.K. - that MacBook Pro model was just a lemon, they had been in the PC manufacturing business for 25 years, but this laptop thing is still sorta new, cut them some slack?

How about their "education model" iMacs that they have the Universities on contract to replace every 2 years - you can get those cheap (like $50) if you know when the dumping sales come around. Thing is, the "education models" are nerfed with max RAM capacities and other things to make them obsolete _even faster_ than the consumer grade stuff. Don't mind working with a 2GB RAM limit in 2014, then $50 is a steal for an iMac - really nice looking machine, just stare at it while you wait for everything to load.

Anybody can abuse a cable, or not. I have NEVER had an Apple charging cable failure; but then, as a former sound-engineer, I know how to treat cables...

Bulging batteries are a problem with every laptop manufacturer. If you leave your MacBook on "charge" 24/7/365, figure on replacing batteries every few years. Newer models got better at that.

Heat-sink compound misapplied: Contract Manufacturer's fault (although Apple maybe dropped the QC-ball on that one). Check Google. It has happened to EVERY laptop manufacturer at one time or another. Again, not a "design" problem, but a Contract Manufacturing problem. But I agree, Apple bears the ultimate responsibility. But as for "no replacement", for every story of "Apple wouldn't replace my motherboard", there is at least one "Apple replaced my motherboard even though it was way out of warranty/recall limits."

Intentionally-crippled iMacs? First: Citation, please? Second: One word: Firmware Upgrade. Apple CERTAINLY wouldn't bother to generate, qualify, and pay for standards-testing on TWO motherboard designs, so the difference MUST be Firmware, which is easily re-flashed by the iMac itself. Oh, and Everymac.com says that although certain Education-Only iMacs from 2011 only OFFICIALLY supported 8 GB of RAM, they actually DO support 16 GB. And although they seem to have temporarily limited RAM to 4 GB on the 2009 Educational iMacs through an EFI Firmware mod., they eventually removed that restriction, too. So, unless you have another, more reliable citation...

I had a 2006 MBP, the mag-lock charging cables (mine and my colleagues) lasted about 6 months - bad strain relief design, something Apple continued for over a decade into the early iPads.

Just a small accessory, sure... now let's talk about the exploding batteries (replaced under warranty, if you knew to ask). Growing pains, yeah.

Now, let's talk about the lack of proper heat-sink compound on the GPU... 18 months into life we started having heat-death of the GPUs on those models - no warranty repairs offered here, would you like to purchase a main board replacement for 80% of the cost of a new laptop?

O.K. - that MacBook Pro model was just a lemon, they had been in the PC manufacturing business for 25 years, but this laptop thing is still sorta new, cut them some slack?

How about their "education model" iMacs that they have the Universities on contract to replace every 2 years - you can get those cheap (like $50) if you know when the dumping sales come around. Thing is, the "education models" are nerfed with max RAM capacities and other things to make them obsolete _even faster_ than the consumer grade stuff. Don't mind working with a 2GB RAM limit in 2014, then $50 is a steal for an iMac - really nice looking machine, just stare at it while you wait for everything to load.

Anybody can abuse a cable, or not. I have NEVER had an Apple charging cable failure; but then, as a former sound-engineer, I know how to treat cables...

Bulging batteries are a problem with every laptop manufacturer. If you leave your MacBook on "charge" 24/7/365, figure on replacing batteries every few years. Newer models got better at that.

Heat-sink compound misapplied: Contract Manufacturer's fault (although Apple maybe dropped the QC-ball on that one). Check Google. It has happened to EVERY laptop manufacturer at one time or another. Again, not a "design" problem, but a Contract Manufacturing problem. But I agree, Apple bears the ultimate responsibility. But as for "no replacement", for every story of "Apple wouldn't replace my motherboard", there is at least one "Apple replaced my motherboard even though it was way out of warranty/recall limits."

Intentionally-crippled iMacs? First: Citation, please? Second: One word: Firmware Upgrade. Apple CERTAINLY wouldn't bother to generate, qualify, and pay for standards-testing on TWO motherboard designs, so the difference MUST be Firmware, which is easily re-flashed by the iMac itself. Oh, and Everymac.com says that although certain Education-Only iMacs from 2011 only OFFICIALLY supported 8 GB of RAM, they actually DO support 16 GB. And although they seem to have temporarily limited RAM to 4 GB on the 2009 Educational iMacs through an EFI Firmware mod., they eventually removed that restriction, too. So, unless you have another, more reliable citation...

Those intel chips in the macbook pro retina as of 2015 were from 2013...

Not all that ahead of the curve.

Don't make this so easy Core i7 4980HQ was released Q3 2014 and is in the 2015 MBP.

Removing the audio port for profit when its the most popular way of connecting speakers is Tim's work.

Wireless! Wireless is critical, We need wireless computer access for ou wireless phones, Land lines and wierd wired ethernet ports are so last year,

But speakers,the only acceptable connection is wired, Nothing but wires.

And you know, I knew Windows PC users who were just as pissed off about Macs losing floppy drives as you are with your fake outrage about removint the phone jack. http://www.everymac.com/system...

Jobs was ridiculed for removeing the floppy drives - https://www.engadget.com/2010/...

Fucking crazy bastard removed Firewire as well, causing more of your type of outrage! http://appleinsider.com/articl...

How in the name of God were people going to access their fine fast firewire devices? The death of Apple, no doubt, and a really stupid move

Now I might not get an iphone 7, although switching from Apple to android would lose me some nice features. But as a deal breaker, the headphone jack is right down there with the color of the home button, especially since my entire family uses bluetooth. It's handy, no wires to get in the way, and otherwise, we don't think about it at all.

I only ever used the headphone jack once, long enough to tell me that my future was using bluetooth. Kinda nice to have a wireless phone that didn't depend on wires. So if for some weird reason I would ever think to connect an amp and speakers to my telephone, I'd use one of any of the fine Bluetooth devices available for purchase.

Oops, you're talking about that iMac? Here we go, this lists the EFI's for different machines

the core2duo is a 64 bit processor.

My 2006 MacBook has a Core Duo 32-bit processor.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook_2.0_black.html

Once again, a bunch more misinformation from the major Apple shill and liar macs4all. It really depends on which Mac. If you have a Macbook it better be from 2009 or newer, so when El Capitan came out in 2015 you've got... SIX years. Even if you count the iMac which is supported back to 2007 you've only got EIGHT years since El Capitan was released in 2015.

And besides, Apple is not a hardware company, at least any more. They barely make computers anymore anyway. They are all about skimming money off the top of their app stores and other rent-seeking services, which is why they want everyone running the latest version so they can push their app store harder. Exactly the same thing reason Microsoft pushes Windows 10 so hard.

You're right that I over generalized a bit. I should have linked to the list which does, however, extend back to 2007 on some models. In a hurry at work, sorry. Only time will tell how long the 2008 and 2009 models will be supported into the future; but I would expect that the internal edict from Apple is that those will be used as the baseline systems for compatibility, which is almost assuredly based on certain hardware (which I believe is mostly-based on 64-bit CPUs) being present in the design. The question is easily answered by looking at the list of Mavericks-compatible systems, which constitute the start of Apple's push to get the diehards off of Snow Leopard, with that same list for El Capitan. If the list grows, or at least stays the same, then Apple is likely planning on continued support for those systems for the foreseeable future. If the list shrinks, then expect those older systems will start to drop off of OS support. After looking at both lists, guess which is the case? Of course, all good things come to an end; but as I said originally, at least Apple is trying.

But of course, in your paranoid fantasy, you have rationalized that by saying "Apple just wants to keep you hooked for more services", disregarding the fact that some of those services are actually NOT AVAILABLE to older Macs running new versions of OS X, and the simple fact that Apple's own filings clearly show that HARDWARE sales are still, as always, "King" at Apple. What company would walk away from their biggest profit-center? That would be like MS discontinuing all sales, including "Cloud-based" of MS Office and Exchange.

So, you are REALLY saying that Apple shifting their business model from hardware-sales-based to a "services" based model is proven by the fact that they Killed-Off iAd, allow Mac users to d/l software from Anywhere, and recently announced a program to REDUCE their "cut" of App Store Sales, AND the fact that they CONTINUE to advertise and host many, many FREEWARE titles on all of their App Stores?

Yeahrightsure. Pass me that bowl...

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

You click About This Mac in the top left always present menu, and everything including the serial number is right there in a pretty pop up window. Processor, disks, display, ram, all the stuff you base a purchase decision on is right there. Christ, the fact you can even refer to it as a 2015 Macbook Pro is telling. Who says 2015 Dell XPS laptop?

Windows and Linux make the same process of retrieving "window sticker" info look barbaric in comparison.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

You click About This Mac in the top left always present menu, and everything including the serial number is right there in a pretty pop up window. Processor, disks, display, ram, all the stuff you base a purchase decision on is right there. Christ, the fact you can even refer to it as a 2015 Macbook Pro is telling. Who says 2015 Dell XPS laptop?

Windows and Linux make the same process of retrieving "window sticker" info look barbaric in comparison.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

You click About This Mac in the top left always present menu, and everything including the serial number is right there in a pretty pop up window. Processor, disks, display, ram, all the stuff you base a purchase decision on is right there. Christ, the fact you can even refer to it as a 2015 Macbook Pro is telling. Who says 2015 Dell XPS laptop?

Windows and Linux make the same process of retrieving "window sticker" info look barbaric in comparison.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

You click About This Mac in the top left always present menu, and everything including the serial number is right there in a pretty pop up window. Processor, disks, display, ram, all the stuff you base a purchase decision on is right there. Christ, the fact you can even refer to it as a 2015 Macbook Pro is telling. Who says 2015 Dell XPS laptop?

Windows and Linux make the same process of retrieving "window sticker" info look barbaric in comparison.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

Why could you not click on the apple logo in the upper left corner, go to "About this Mac" and then look at the "Processor" heading to figure out what you are buying or what you have just bought.. and then return it if you feel you have been cheated? Trying to figure out what mac you are buying from the serial number is the hard way of going about figuring this out. Do you try to figure out what car you are buying from the VIN number too?

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

Why could you not click on the apple logo in the upper left corner, go to "About this Mac" and then look at the "Processor" heading to figure out what you are buying or what you have just bought.. and then return it if you feel you have been cheated? Trying to figure out what mac you are buying from the serial number is the hard way of going about figuring this out. Do you try to figure out what car you are buying from the VIN number too?

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

Why could you not click on the apple logo in the upper left corner, go to "About this Mac" and then look at the "Processor" heading to figure out what you are buying or what you have just bought.. and then return it if you feel you have been cheated? Trying to figure out what mac you are buying from the serial number is the hard way of going about figuring this out. Do you try to figure out what car you are buying from the VIN number too?

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

Why could you not click on the apple logo in the upper left corner, go to "About this Mac" and then look at the "Processor" heading to figure out what you are buying or what you have just bought.. and then return it if you feel you have been cheated? Trying to figure out what mac you are buying from the serial number is the hard way of going about figuring this out. Do you try to figure out what car you are buying from the VIN number too?

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

LOL. Take a 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2015 (again) Macbook Pro and put them side by side. See if you can tell them apart without looking up the serial number. A few years back, my cousin almost ended up paying Sandy Bridge prices for a Core 2 Duo MBP (new at his school store) because Apple makes it so hard to figure out what exactly you're buying.

They've been better about labeling their iPhones, but that seems predicated more on compelling people to upgrade because their phone's number is one lower than the current. Their iPad model naming started off sane, but has lately become a mess.

Sent from my Mac that has user-replaceable RAM that isn't soldered in.

Your Mac doesn't have soldered RAM. Though it's only officially upgradeable to 8GB, It's actually upgradeable to 16GB. I would know. I upgraded the RAM in both a 2009 Mac mini and a 2011 Mac mini. I also installed an SSD alongside the HDD in the 2011 one and was able to configure the two drives to act as a Fusion Drive. Between those upgrades and the discrete GPU (which is a feature that unfortunately hasn't shown up in any of subsequent models), it's kept chugging along like a champ.

Moreover, while it's trivial to put together a parts list for a PC build that beats a Mac, you'd be hard-pressed to find manufacturers with comparable parts at comparable or better prices at the time that a Mac is released. Part of that is because Macs generally have a good bang for the buck at the time that they're released (albeit, with some notable exceptions), but the caveat is that that's only true if you actually intend to use all of the features built into the device. For most people, they'd be perfectly content to cut features they have no intention of using, but they have no way to do so with Apple's take-it-or-leave-it products. Apple will have just a handful of SKUs that assume you want everything included, and you'll like it, damn it, whereas their competition will have 100s of SKUs with every combination under the sun, that way the customers can pick and choose exactly which features matter to them.

Eventually the competition catches up, and because Apple is slow to release new products their price advantage evaporates, but, once again, it was only there to begin with if you're one of the customers who actually wants to use everything that's included, which isn't true of most people. Of course, there are also the intangibles that work in Apple's favor (e.g. OS X, app/device ecosystem, perceived build quality, social status, "saving the environment", etc.), but I'm not taking any of those into account here, because the people who care about those things generally don't care about whether there's a price advantage or not.

The disk is a standard 2.5" Hard disk, so you can just replace that with modern SSD if you want. Apple lifted the ban on 3rd party SSDs a while ago.

Opening up an iMac is easy. The screen part is just held together with magnets, IIRC

I'm not sure what the article submitter is smoking. According to this: http://www.everymac.com/system... the current Macbook Air has a "Core i7 (I7-5650U)" processor which per Intel's own website http://ark.intel.com/products/... debuted in Q1 2015.

It appears to be the 4. I used the number on the back (which kind of does look like glass with white plastic beneath it). It is:
http://www.everymac.com/ultima...

And I don't actually mind what version it is, I paid the total of zero dollars for it and will just end up donating it. The page says it was discontinued in 2013 but she says she bought it about a year ago - which makes it purchased more recently than that and I've some additional personal information that makes me believe that is correct. I suspect that Verizon still had plenty to sell. I dunno?

And nah, I don't dislike OS or iOS. I don't really dislike any OS. I do like to give people shit sometimes but only blind zealots who tie themselves and their identity to an operating system they neither created nor control. I side with Apple in the current debate with the FBI. I don't have a Windows computer but I do have a Windows phone - which is an odd choice but I'm kind of enjoying it. I was quite surprised by how nice it is and there are plenty of apps available. I can do anything I would want to do on a phone on it.

the OS in question was 10.6.8, and the version they sold me to "fix" it was 10.7, just one version later.

Wait, there's something I don't get. This is the list of all Mac Mini models.

The first three use a PowerPC G4. The next three use either Intel Core Solo or Core Duo, which are 32 bit processors and therefore only upgradeable up to 10.6.8. You are clearly not talking about these, and you specifically mention that it was a Core 2 Duo.

Starting from the Mac mini "Core 2 Duo" 2.0 (Early 2009) (P7350), all the Mac Minis are upgradable all the way up to El Capitan. So you didn't have one of those.

That leaves us with only two possibilities: the Mac mini "Core 2 Duo" 1.83 (T5600) and the Mac mini "Core 2 Duo" 2.0 (T7200). And indeed those two computers are upgradable to 10.7.5. You just need to read the fine print under the asterisk:

*This system can run the last version of OS X 10.7 "Lion" if upgraded to at least 2 GB of RAM.

So there you have it. You just needed to add a little more RAM and everything would have worked. I agree that you were mis-informed by ignorant Apple Support people, but the essence of what the company told you is still true.

(That, or you are mixing up the Core Duo and the Core 2 Duo processors.)

Are you sure you can replace the hard drive with an SSD. For a machine from 2007, it's likely that it's not even using SATA to connect to the hard drive. If this is the model you have, you might be in luck as it uses SATA, but it's the older 1.5 gbps version, so you wouldn't be running your fancy SSD to it's full potential, although it would probably be faster than whatever is in there.

So everyone unwilling to pay Apple prices for RAM should buy 2013 model even in mid 2014 or later?

I was with you right up to that part. Apple lagged woefully behind in screens for a very long time, unless you're forgetting that the 15" MBP was 1440x900 right up to mid-2012

Not if you got it with the 1680x1050 display, which was an option starting on the 2011 models. It's not as if all PC manufacturers had jumped on 1080p at that point, so it's a wee bit of a wash.

I was thinking he was the poor sucker with a first generation iMac where the USB wasn't even 2.0. (and where the firmware is set so that it CANNOT boot from an external USB DVD-ROM drive)

Put some Firewire in that Altivec Unit and let's Retina our way to joyland!

Excuse me, but when the first gen iMac debuted in 1998 (nevermind when it was designed, likely in 1997) there simply wasn't a USB 2.0. It wasn't even released as a spec until TWO YEARS LATER.

BTW, the first versions of Windows to support USB 2.0 are Windows 2000 (in SP4) (June, 2003), and Windows XP. The earliest of those would be Windows XP (very limited support until SP1 was released in September, 2002). There is no official USB 2.0 Support in ANY "Win9x" variant.

As for Macs, the first desktop Mac to support USB 2.0 was the iMac G4 1.0GHz (Sunflower design), introduced on September 8, 2003; and the first Mac Laptop to incorporate USB 2.0 appears to be the PowerBook G4 1.0 12 inch DVI model, Released essentially at the same time, on September 16, 2003. This means that USB 2.0 Support was added to OS X 10.3 (Panther), Released on October 24, 2003.

As for Linux, LIMITED"Experimental" USB 2.0 support for SOME USB hardware was available in the 2.4.16 Kernel (don't know the exact release date); but full USB 2.0 support was added to the 2.6.0 Kernel, released on December 17, 2003.

So, from what I can see, USB 2.0 support came at virtually the same time for OS X, Windows and Linux-based PCs.

Got it? As for the rest of your nonsensical post: Grow up.

I was thinking he was the poor sucker with a first generation iMac where the USB wasn't even 2.0. (and where the firmware is set so that it CANNOT boot from an external USB DVD-ROM drive)

Put some Firewire in that Altivec Unit and let's Retina our way to joyland!

Excuse me, but when the first gen iMac debuted in 1998 (nevermind when it was designed, likely in 1997) there simply wasn't a USB 2.0. It wasn't even released as a spec until TWO YEARS LATER.

BTW, the first versions of Windows to support USB 2.0 are Windows 2000 (in SP4) (June, 2003), and Windows XP. The earliest of those would be Windows XP (very limited support until SP1 was released in September, 2002). There is no official USB 2.0 Support in ANY "Win9x" variant.

As for Macs, the first desktop Mac to support USB 2.0 was the iMac G4 1.0GHz (Sunflower design), introduced on September 8, 2003; and the first Mac Laptop to incorporate USB 2.0 appears to be the PowerBook G4 1.0 12 inch DVI model, Released essentially at the same time, on September 16, 2003. This means that USB 2.0 Support was added to OS X 10.3 (Panther), Released on October 24, 2003.

As for Linux, LIMITED"Experimental" USB 2.0 support for SOME USB hardware was available in the 2.4.16 Kernel (don't know the exact release date); but full USB 2.0 support was added to the 2.6.0 Kernel, released on December 17, 2003.

So, from what I can see, USB 2.0 support came at virtually the same time for OS X, Windows and Linux-based PCs.

Got it? As for the rest of your nonsensical post: Grow up.

It can't run because your Mac Pro only has a 32-bit EFI. This is not an excuse for Apple for not making it work; I'm just noting the actual technical reasoning.

http://www.everymac.com/system...

However, the simple workaround (if you have a Yosemite-compatible video card) that doesn't involve a Hackintosh-level install is to use a modified boot.efi file that thunks EFI64 calls from the 64-bit OS X kernel to the EFI32 firmware of your Pro. Look at the first post of this thread

http://forums.macrumors.com/sh...

and navigate to the section quoted below.

Another simplified installation approach is to use a second Yosemite-supported Mac and install Yosemite to the 2006/2007 Mac Pro's drive. This may be done either by attaching the 2006/2007 Mac Pro's drive as an external drive by placing the 2006/2007 Mac Pro in target disk mode or otherwise mounting the 2006/2007 Mac Pro's drive to a Yosemite-supported Mac. Then, after installation, copy Pike's EFI32 boot.efi to that drive's /usr/standalone/i386 and /System/Library/CoreServices/ directories overwriting the stock Apple EFI64 boot.efi and repair permissions. That drive should now be bootable on a 2006/2007 Mac Pro

I'm typing this from my Mac Pro 1,1 (with an ATI Radeon HD 4870). I used a different Mac (recent Mac Mini) to install Yosemite to a drive, copied the updated boot.efi file, installed the drive into my Pro, and I've been good to go ever since.