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So you replaced one proprietary system with vendor lock-in with another?

I'm not locked into anything. If I want to I can install Ubuntu, which I was planning on at first, or another Linux distro. I'm typing this in a Firefox tab. My office suite is NeoOffice, the original native Mac port of Open Office. I also have other open source programs installed. Because I installed Fink and MacPorts I can install a lot of software for Linux. I can install Debian packages using .deb or apt-get as well as packages using Redhat's .rpm. And if I need to, though I haven't yet, I can get and install Cross Over for Macs so I can run Windows software.

Fact is is a Mac can run more software than any other OS/hardware combination. And don't try to say Macs are more expensive either. Macs have not been more expensive than Windows PCs in years. Actually before I got mine, I compared it's price to prices of Windows laptops that had similar configurations. Most OEM PC were about the same price, though some cost more. Dell's was about $200 more.

Hardware wise my laptop isn't any more vender lockin than a Windows laptop either. I'm still using the same router I got for my Windows PC, then used with my Linux PC, and am now using with my Mac. My Epson scanner works fine with it as does my Iomega external drives and my Canon printer.

Falcon

BBEdit is a well-crafted and powerful tool. It's the best code editor for OS X.

I do not think that all the changes to its UI have been for the better, though.

In general, OS X is a good-looking *and* powerful platform for coding. Especially once you install Fink http://www.finkproject.org/.

OS X doesn't get you as good an OS as FreeBSD

OS X is FreeBDS underneath. I have X11 installed. I also have Fink to install Debian packages dpkg and apt-get as well as MacPorts which installs rpm packages.

it gets you a WAY better OS than Vista, and WAY more software than any free UNIX.

Of the unices (unixes), OS X, and Windows you get the most from OS X. You can install Unix and Windows software as well as OS X software. With Unix you get Unix and Windows software but not OS X software. The same with Windows. If that's not enough you can actually run all three OSes on a Mac.

Falcon

Format, re-install, dual-boot XP/Linux.

I got a Macbook Pro 12 months ago. At the tyme I was thinking of installing Ubuntu on it as a dualboot but after thinking about a while I decided not to. I can do almost everything on it now as I could with Ubuntu. I have X11 installed along with MacPort which allows me to install RPMs and Fink which installs apt-get and .deb packages.

Falcon

Ahem...there is Freeware for Mac OS X. There is also F/OSS for Mac OS X. And if you want more F/OSS, you can use Fink or MacPorts. Fink basically gives Mac OS X Debian file tools, and MacPorts gives Mac OS X the FreeBSD Ports system. Finally, if one can get the source code and you have Mac developer tools installed, you can roll your own. Use the Source, Luke.

You can now conceivably run your Mac completely with F/OSS equivalents of all the useful stuff one uses that one usually pays for. It's nice to have the iApps but they aren't even necessary unless you want to bring in and edit video. For that purpose iMovie '06 (a free download for those who have iMovie '08 or even just an iMovie '08 license) is best unless you want to pay for something better like Premiere or Final Cut Express.

There. Hope that helps.

iTunes != Unix. Are you saying that because iTunes runs on Windows OS X is not Unix?

even something like KDE sticks to more of the core tenants of unix than Mac os X.

Mind telling that to the KDE developers who ported KDE to OS X? Or Gnome? How can X11 apps be configured for Gnome?

Simply, as I said in my post you replied to I can install many Linux programs, I wont say all because I don't know if there are any that can't be installed, on my Mac. Just as Linux users can use Debian packagers apt-get and dpkg to install .deb software on Linux, I can use Fink to install those programs on my Mac. I can also install software using Redhat's RPM package manager on it using MacPorts.

I am a Mac user too and I'm typing this on yet another Macbook Pro. But that doesn't change the fact that it's OS X, not an X window environment of any sort (Gnome etc). and so works on different paradigms.

And have you dropped into the terminal? Though it comes on the dvds XWindows' X11 isn't installed on new Macs, so I did install it. As well as MacPorts to install Redhat's RPM and .pkg and Fink to install Debian's apt-get software.

losing out on the advantages of linux? by using OSX you lose out on the most important advantage of gnu/linux and free software: you actually own the software, you don't just license it.

Excuse me but I'm typing this in a Firefox tab on my MacBook Pro. As an office suite I use NeoOffice, the native Mac port of Open Office. I can install RPM packages with MacPorts and for Debian's dpkg and apt-get I can use Fink. Anything, well most maybe as I don't know for sure everything will, that runs in X on Linux I can install on my Mac.

I see the convenience and reliability of ThinkPad hardware as superior

I'm typing this on my third Mac and I haven't had any hardware problems that prevented me from using it yet. While it's new, 8 months, my first Mac I bought used and I used it 8 years before it died. The second I also bought used and it lasted 7 years.

and the Mac OS is still a proprietary OS that seems to require a Windows license for some tasks anyway.

And you don't have the same costs to run the same task in Linux? I won't say all but some programs that run in Linux will also run in OS X. For RPM packages, there's RPM for Darwin (Mac OS X) and MacPorts. To install Debian's dpkg and apt-get packages in OS X there's Fink.

Many FOSS projects I am interested in (Open Office, Scribus being two big ones) are really lagging behind in the OSX ports,

However those projects that run in X on Linux also run in X on OS X. For RPM packages, there's RPM for Darwin (Mac OS X) and Macports. Debian packages dpkg and apt-get can be installed with Fink. So any, well some as I don't know if they all will, Linux packages that use either of these can be installed in OS X as well.

I do recording under Linux, and I like Ardour, et al better than I like anything else I've ever used. I haven't owned a Mac, though, and I've SEEN some stuff on Mac that I'd like to use. That being said, the Linux solutions lack a great deal of polish that most people would require, such as graphical plugins (which I think are on their way with LADSPA2; LADSPA being the equivalent to VST). The only thing keeping Ardour from being as flexible as these other applications, IMO, is MIDI support, which is also on its way.

Again, I really like the feel of Ardour over Protools or Nuendo3, but asking someone to go from Reason, a virtual rack (that actually LOOKS like a rack), to Pd, a sound processing application into which you can program anything (but only has visual representation of signal flow, IIRC), is a tough argument to make.

In any case, the decision between Windows and Linux as a recording environment is a no-brainer for ME. The audio subsystem in Windows is shit, Vista is shit, and Microsoft wants me to call and ask permission to upgrade my box. So *I* agree with you. But asking someone else whose brain works differently to make the leap may not be reasonable.

As for visual apps, I think the same applies, despite the amount of applications such as the GIMP, Cinelerra, etc. I would recommend trying Linux. If you have a Mac, Ardour has a native OS X installer, so try it out. Also, to check out the rest of these apps, try Fink (no 10.5 support). And if you decide to make the leap, UbuntuStudio is a great place to start for the uninitiated. It comes with a real-time kernel and system adjustments and a billion multimedia creation apps.

I have recently switched to Leopard and Xtools was on the disk. If you want to use KDE etc. you can. Once you have MacPorts running you can use most Gnu stuff. I think that MacPorts is better than Fink for getting all the Gnu stuff running but that is because I prefer an easy life.

"Fink uses Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get to provide powerful binary package management" on the Mac.

if there's one feature about Ubuntu that I love more than my Mac is that you can install a TON of applications from Synaptic or via the awesome Add/Remove app. OSX on the other hand, if you want to install some new piece of software, be prepared to pay for it, or to get a really useless trial version.

I can use both Fink and Macports to install software. "Fink uses Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get to provide powerful binary package management." And MacPorts uses RPMs.

The reason people are buying mac is because they want something new, and when it comes to purchasing a computer your only choices are OSX and Vista for most people. I'd bet anything that if we saw more linux pcs at stores like best buy and walmart, the cheaper linux PC would CLOBBER in sales, because people really do care about cost.

I bought a tower PC with Linux preinstalled but when it came tyme to buy a laptop I bought a MacBook pro. I not only care about cost but I also care about usability. Oh and Walmart does, or did, sale PCs with Linux.

I'm sorry, I need my right and middle button even when I'm not using an external mouse.

I had no problem opening this reply in a new tab to type it on my Macbook Pro. I simply held down the command key while clicking and the new tab opened right up. I can also open a new tab to type a reply by holding down the ctrl key while clicking then choosing "Open link in new tab".

What actually drove me nuts was the little things, like not having normal buttons for PgUp/PgDown, Delete etc.

Holding down the fn key while pressing the page down key pages the page I'm looking at down one and holding down the command key while pressing the page down takes the window down to the bottom of the last page.

I know there are shortcuts for that, but hey, I want to concentrate on what I'm doing and not on remembering wild combination for what should be single keys

I switched from Windows to OS X in August and within a few weeks I had no problems with the above.

And for drag and drop install/uninstall - ha! 99.9% of what I need is available from Apt

I can install software using the same methods software is install in Linux. MacPorts allows me to install RPMs and "Fink uses Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get to provide powerful binary package management."

I run Linux on my macbook.

I got my MacBook Pro a few months ago and before I ordered it I had planned on dualbooting with Ubuntu. However once I got it I thought more about installing Ubuntu, and after deciding Ubuntu doesn't offer me anything I could think of over OS X I decided not to install it. Download and install FOOS with apt-get or rmp? "Fink uses Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get to provide powerful binary package management." And MacPorts installs RPMs. I can install Linux and well as Mac software. Right now I see no reason to install any Linux distro on my MBP.

If you mean apt-get, Macs do have it. Not only does Macs have Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get but it also has Redhat's RPMs.

There are an awful lot of free software applications installable on the Mac through Fink or MacPorts. MacPorts even has some graphical applications under its aqua and gnustep categories and has other categories under which there are even more graphical applications usable under X11. I believe MacPorts even has a GUI available somewhere, but I prefer a terminal interface so I don't know about setting up or using the GUI. Also, Fink provides many applications usable under X11.

Just out of curiosity, are there any applications in particular you're getting through Synaptic that aren't available to the Mac through Fink or MacPorts?

There are an awful lot of free software applications installable on the Mac through Fink or MacPorts. MacPorts even has some graphical applications under its aqua and gnustep categories and has other categories under which there are even more graphical applications usable under X11. I believe MacPorts even has a GUI available somewhere, but I prefer a terminal interface so I don't know about setting up or using the GUI. Also, Fink provides many applications usable under X11.

Just out of curiosity, are there any applications in particular you're getting through Synaptic that aren't available to the Mac through Fink or MacPorts?

X11 is on your OS X install disk. Then install Fink and get access to 8,226 OS X compatible UNIX programs.

Never heard of Fink, eh?

I can use the same software on Linux just as easily as I do on my Mac.

What software are you using exactly?

First I should say I got it reversed, instead I should of said I can use the same software on my Macs as I can use in Linux. Now as for what I use, for now I only use Eudora, Firefox, and a text editor on my Mac. When I get around to it though I plan on installing CinePaint and Inkscape, both of which are cross platform. I have X11 installed on my Mac and with either Fink or MacPorts I can download and install the same X11 programs for Linux on my Mac. Fink uses dpkg, dselect and apt-get from the Debian Project and MacPorts uses Redhat's rpm package management software. For technical reasons I haven't used my Linux PC in a few months.

I was helping a friend debug a problem a couple of weeks ago and logged into her machine and thought "Hey, I don't have ccache or Valgrind." Fortunately I had sudo access.

I'm sure it's not too much bother to remember ccache.samba.org or valgrind.org, but I didn't even have to remember that much.

Though I know a little about Linux I know nothing about most of these. I know sudo allows the user to switch to superuser and that samba is something like Windows file sharing protocol but ccache and all the others I have no idea what they are. How is anyone who knows nothing about them or Linux supposed to be able to install software in Linux? As it is now the Mac offers the easiest method for computer users to install software. Linspire's Click N Run, CNR, may change that seeing as how all it requires, other than net access, is to click to install programs. CNR doesn't work with many Linux distros though. It only works, in beta, with Freespire/Linspire, Debian, Fedora, openSuse, and Ubuntu. However Version Tracker offers something similar for Macs, as does Fink and MacPorts.

The only piece of proprietary software I've ever purchased for Mac OS X in fact didn't "just work". I could never get it working, and that's just one of the reasons I abandoned Mac OS X.

The only software I installed on my Mac that I had problem with was FOSS, Fink. Maybe I installed or used it wrong but after I installed Fink I tried to download and install HTTrack but it wouldn't download. Maybe I'll install and try MacPorts, but first I want to see what programs can be downloaded and installed with it first.

Linux (Ubuntu, Debian and Redhat, as well as many others) have a nifty little package manager where you can install a program for almost anything you can think of. Where is that feature on your Mac? The Mac may come with a number of third party tools, but they still don't do 100% of what every user wants to do with their computer. Under Linux, it's much closer to "feature complete", as far as application availability.

There's MacPorts and Fink. Macports uses RPMs and Fink uses "Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get". Not only can I install Mac software but I can also install many programs for BSD and Linux.

Every time I sit down at a Mac I inevitably end up swearing at the lack of a util I'm used to having (why no wget?).

And why are folders like /etc so hard to find in finder?

A lot of unix source code runs on OS X with minimal changes

(e.g., http://finkproject.org/).

In fact, from the command-line OS X is just like Linux/UNIX from a general usability standpoint.

The only major thing I believe that is locked up is the implementation of the graphical interface (i.e., all the eye-candy).

Your impression would be wrong. From the command-line you can easily install new interpreters and compilers, and I'm sure you can change the specific shell (the default now is bash). A lot of unix source code runs on OS X with minimal changes (e.g., http://finkproject.org/). In fact, from the command-line OS X is just like Linux/UNIX from a general usability standpoint. The only major thing I believe that is locked up is the implementation of the graphical interface (i.e., all the eye-candy).

You might want to try fink. A Mac with Linux installed in VMWare Fusion (or Parallels) is another solution. When I bought a Mac, I partitioned the HD with the intention of installing Linux on it. I never got around to installing Linux on that partition, fink and VMWare were sufficient for my needs.

I'm not so sure about this...

Downloading the KOffice builds for OS X is a staggering experience; in order to install KOffice, I need 692 MB of libraries and 526 MB of application code, for a grand total of 1.2G - for an office suite?

In comparison, iWork '08 (the entire installation media) is about 583 MB, and Office 2003 (admittedly a little outdated, but it works surprisingly well) takes up a shocking 654 MB. Granted that iWork has 'only' presentations, word processing, and spreadsheets (though my personal favorite implementations of all three), and Office 2003 isn't universal, but I still don't think that remedying either situation would cause those applications to double in size.

Compare that with OpenOffice, whose 135 MB download on OS X is their third-largest, with the SPARC Solaris build edging them out by 2 MB and the Linux x86 RPM by 1 MB; or, compare with NeoOffice, whose (admittedly non-UniversaL) download tallies about 134 MB.

I'll weight until I actually try it to determine whether its speed is notable, but its size is astonishing... I hope that this is as a result of debugging symbols, unoptimized builds, or some other reason, but I'm not convinced that they can knock off the 1 GB that they'd need to match OpenOffice, or the 600M they'd need to match the other Mac office suites.

Still, we'll see...

http://ranger.users.finkproject.org/kde/index.php/Home

viola

Hey here's some of my thoughts:

2. I want to adjust mouse acceleration. I can't figure out how without buying an expensive 3rd party app.
Just poke around the settings in the system prefs. Mouse accel is different in OS X. Not better or worse; just different.

3. I want to be able to launch my apps with one or two-key keyboard shortcuts. I can't figure this one out either.
Yeah again just poke around in the system preferences, you can specify this in there somewhere.

4. My scrollbar in firefox doesn't work right. Is this normal?
Firefox sucks on the Mac IMO. Try Camino, Safari, or FF3 should be out soon which is supposed to be much better for OS X.

5. Many open source apps that I love don't have standard maintained OS X distributions (gvim, pidgin, etc). I could try compiling myself, or I've found older versions that other people have built for them, but that's rather a step backwards instead of forwards.
Try Adium for an OS X-like Pidgin client. It's nice!


And check out Fink and MacPorts to bring and Linux apps to OS X. I find it nice to have wget, scons, and other random but useful *nix tools right there in the terminal.

Again, I'm not trying to troll...I just thought I'd finally give the thing an honest try, but I'm not yet seeing what the big deal is. Can I get one of you fanboys to point me towards what I'm missing?

Viruses, spyware, WGA, reinstalling your OS every 6 months, a machine that constantly communicates to Microsoft, etc. OS X is simplicity, but with powerful Unix tools underneath. That's my take on things. I didn't realize what a pain maintaining a Windows box was until I ran another OS.

1. I have some cheap usb hardware (wireless network dongle, bluetooth, etc). No drivers for mac.

You most likely will not have any luck here. There are many chipsets out there without (or only partial) Mac/Unix/Linux support. I'm guessing that you have an older G4 or G5 based Mac, because, if you were to purchase a new Mac, it would have wireless and bluetooth built-in ($79 option on the Mac Pro, standard on everything else), so in your case, this is a problem, but for most switchers, and for those buying a new Apple laptop (since that's what the story was about) this wouldn't be an issue.

2. I want to adjust mouse acceleration. I can't figure out how without buying an expensive 3rd party app.

I'm interpreting "mouse acceleration" to be "adjust the tracking speed". It's located in System Preferences. In the Keyboard and Mouse preference pane, click on the mouse tab, and, you'll see slider controls for tracking speed. In addition, you can adjust the scroll speed and the double click speed. If you mean something else, I apologize. I never touch the mouse settings on the Mac or in Windows.

3. I want to be able to launch my apps with one or two-key keyboard shortcuts.

You are correct here. There isn't a native way of doing this in Mac OS X. Ironically, I think you could do this in the older Mac Classic system. Anyway, I use a product called QuicKeys to do what you described. Comes in very handy. Some of this support must be lacking on the Windows side too, because they make a Windows version as well.

4. My scrollbar in firefox doesn't work right. Is this normal?

Yes, the scroll bar sometimes breaks in Firefox on the Mac. I've found quality control lacking on the Mac version of Firefox, in comparison to the Windows version. Usually quitting and re-launching Firefox restores it to normalcy. I haven't found a trigger yet for this misbehavior. It never happens in Safari.

5. Many open source apps that I love don't have standard maintained OS X distributions (gvim, pidgin, etc).

I believe the folks at Mac Ports and Fink can help you with most of your open source software needs. Follow their documentation and you'll be up and running with open source software in no time.

I hope my answers have helped you out.

Have you considered OS X with X11 and KDE?
If you want both Aqua/OS X & KDE, that's the way to go, as it means nearly zero overhead for your Mac compared to some virtualisation or dual-boot solution. Don't forget that OS X is a full-blown Unix (bash Terminal, GNU Toolkit and all) that can easyly provide all the Linux goodies you want. It's even got this OSS project called Fink which offers a full apt-get (as in Debian Package Management) enviroment including a usefull GUI tool (Fink Commander) to operate it. Here's a post on KDE support in Fink

Have you considered OS X with X11 and KDE?
If you want both Aqua/OS X & KDE, that's the way to go, as it means nearly zero overhead for your Mac compared to some virtualisation or dual-boot solution. Don't forget that OS X is a full-blown Unix (bash Terminal, GNU Toolkit and all) that can easyly provide all the Linux goodies you want. It's even got this OSS project called Fink which offers a full apt-get (as in Debian Package Management) enviroment including a usefull GUI tool (Fink Commander) to operate it. Here's a post on KDE support in Fink

Does anyone know where can I get Mac OS X Binaries of this? (this source seems to be obsolete)

bash instead of tcsh as the default shell.

Standard directory names like /home and such.

Standard text-based package managers like apt-get. My mac friends spend way too much compiling and have all their applications in the weirdest places.

Often things like page up/down and home/end don't work in the OSX versions of programs.

This stuff doesn't have to happen at the expense of the GUI either. My impression has been that Terminal.app is more of an accident than an accepted member of the operating system.

1. Very true, but Apple is a hardware company first and foremost (and most people feel that it's their strongest area). You can't buy a Mac and expect to slap in the latest nVidia and have it work out of the box. Hopefully this changes as time goes on.
2. Fink fink and more fink. Check out the Fink Project if you haven't already. It will allow you almost all the flexibility you need from point #2. The only real setback is that you can't boot into KDE or Gnome, but you can run it in an X window.
3. I'm with you here - OS X security and a Unix core brought me to Apple, and their response to a real issue pissed me off. Again, as market share grows, let's hope this trend reverses.
4. Fink again, if you don't want to go the VM route. Also, Eclipse is most certainly available in OS X (use it daily).
5. You're right, this is a preference thing. I spent my entire life on Windows and Linux, hating Apple. Then 10.2 came out, and I couldn't imagine working as productively in another environment again. It's a mind shift away from Linux DMs, and if that flexibility is necessary, you'll find OS X a pain to work around.

seconded

http://finkproject.org/

I just installed Gimp2 to my quad G5 running OS X via Fink ( http://www.finkproject.org/ )

The power of OS X is to be able to run open source stuff directly just like any FreeBSD additionally via Mach kernel.

What made me amazed recently is figuring the fact that X11 on Apple is also colorsync corrected thanks to my recent "Pantone Huey" colour corrector. So if you run X11 on OS X, you also get colour correction too. That could be a nice example of "mix of both worlds" on OS X.

I mean OS X also provides free competition for Open Source people. E.g. someone could code a better than photoshop gimp today and ship it as a native OS X Application or something using X11. They could crush Adobe on download numbers. There is nothing stopping them. When you install "Xcode", theoretically your can start your own X11 application from strach and you can ship for all free/open source operating systems.

There were no guy claiming "3rd party Application may crash Internet" compared to iPhone Java/SDK case :)

The "iPhone" and Quicktime departments of them are different of course. I am glad that kind of people aren't running OS X/PC department.

About move to Linux? I decided to experiment a bit sparing my hours. I tried the famous "Ubuntu" , 9 fans full speed and their page says "PPC is not shipped by Apple so it is dead, we aren't supporting it" (yea right!), another famous (and super geek) distro, 9 fans full speed remembered and I went to their powerpc channel not to waste my and their 4 gb of bandwidth, I was happily ignored etc. Is there anything to do with Apple Inc. on these kinds of "no support" or "ignore" situations? No.

I better wait until Apple drops PPC support from OS X.

http://finkproject.org/
http://www.apple.com/opensource/
Whatever

Not sure he's heard of MacPorts:

http://macports.org/

nor Fink:

http://finkproject.org/

nor version tracker:

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

Mac version:

http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/gaim

Or did you mean for it to actually act like a Mac app?

Well, also don't forget that you can run Krita on Mac OS X, just compile it and run it on the X11 server that comes on Mac's install DVDs.

Compile and install it through Fink.

http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/firefox
http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/firefox 1.5

Admittedly, it's a drag that there is no Mac "native" repository system. But Fink and DarwinPorts (it's not discontinued, just a name change to MacPorts and some Apple support) provide many, many more packages than would otherwise be possible.

Thank you for reading the whole thing, though. You haven't said what you think of it, other than that it's inaccurate. Do you disagree with it?

I really do disagree. I know OS X fairly well. I think that with things like launchd and Calendar Server, Apple is contributing to F/OSS in a positive way. I think that darwin is a nice Unix. For me, at least, the traditional unix tools, like grep, find, ps, gcc, perl, make for a more "general-purpose" machine.
I'm not sure what you're criticizing OSX in favor of. As a workstation, it's close to being as flexible as a Linux, and the workgroup management tools come close to being as nice as Microsoft's.

Isaac

http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/firefox
http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/firefox 1.5

Admittedly, it's a drag that there is no Mac "native" repository system. But Fink and DarwinPorts (it's not discontinued, just a name change to MacPorts and some Apple support) provide many, many more packages than would otherwise be possible.

Thank you for reading the whole thing, though. You haven't said what you think of it, other than that it's inaccurate. Do you disagree with it?

I really do disagree. I know OS X fairly well. I think that with things like launchd and Calendar Server, Apple is contributing to F/OSS in a positive way. I think that darwin is a nice Unix. For me, at least, the traditional unix tools, like grep, find, ps, gcc, perl, make for a more "general-purpose" machine.
I'm not sure what you're criticizing OSX in favor of. As a workstation, it's close to being as flexible as a Linux, and the workgroup management tools come close to being as nice as Microsoft's.

Isaac

You still have to manually manage applications. Most applications (if not all) that come with OS X can be updated with the software updater, but all your 3rd party applications either need to implement their own updater (e.g. Firefox) or just tell you to check for updates yourself and re-copy them to wherever you installed it.

Of course, there is fink for OS X, but that is basically APT with OS X binaries instead of ELF ones.

> Oh my god. Are you saying that there's something better than Amarok AND it's for a Mac?

You can use Amarok on OS X...
http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/amarok