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Is the Dell XPS One Better than the Apple iMac?
An anonymous reader writes "The Apple iMac is probably the standard all-in-one desktop computer. Great operating system, built-in software and design around solid, but pretty normal, hardware guts. According to Walter Mossberg, there's a new kid in town that not only matches it but is 'sightly ahead': the Dell XPS One. His latest review is already causing the usual suspects to weigh in. Mossberg says it is a better machine, but Vista and its built-in software make it inferior than Apple iMac's Leopard and iLife suite. Would you choose the better hardware of the Dell XPS One -which is more expensive- or the elegant design and software of the Apple iMac?"
"Would you choose the better hardware of the Dell XPS One -which is more expensive- or the elegant design and software of the Apple iMac?"
Personally, I'm still choosing neither. Why? Because I can't afford them and I don't spend enough time using a desktop machine to justify it if I could. I put money into my laptops, because that's where I live and work. For my desktop, I want a big case that I can dig around and play in. And for the most part it's all cheap stuff. Would an imac be nice? Sure. Just like a Mercedes would be a lot nicer than my '95 Taurus. But the Taurus and my gateway case with a motherboard I got on special at Frys do the job - and that is enough.
When family our friends are looking for a new home pc - if they are looking for something in the price range of the imac - I encourage them to go that route without hesitation.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
If I could only choose between the 2 of them, I'd go with the cheaper one. If I could choose anything else, I'd never get an all-in-one computer. I just hate having to part with a good LCD monitor every time I want to upgrade or switch computers.
I don't quite understand why they rate the XPS one higher than the iMac.
First off, let's compare tech specs.
iMac (Low-end) $1199
20" wsxga+ screen
1GB Ram
250GB HDD
Dual Layer DVD burner
ATI Radeon HD 2400XT (128MB)
802.11n Wireless
XPS ONE (Low-End) $1399
20" wsxga+ screen
2GB Ram
250GB HDD
DVD burner Integrated Video
"WiFi" (doesn't say which)
Now notice that the only thing the dell beats the mac in is memory. However, for $150 you can upgrade to the same amount when you order an iMac (or get a stick on newegg for half that), and have a machine that still is $50 LESS (and with a real video card, a dual layer burner, and guaranteed 802.11n). Gizmodo also already agreed that Leopard was the better operating system (see the link in the article below the video). So this begs me to ask, why do they consider the more expensive, less equipped, and weaker operating system computer better than the other?
I wonder how well this system's hardware is supported in a typical desktop-oriented Linux distro?
Especially more bleeding edge stuff like the Blu-ray drive, but also other things, like the TV tuner.
Because if it's pretty much OK there, then I know which OS could be a nice alternative if you dislike Windows.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I choose the Dell XPS One. If I'm going to have to throw the whole thing out once it becomes obsolete, I'm going to buy the one that's going to last the longest.
What's Apple's market share again? 3.1416 % or something like that?
That's like calling wind power the standard energy generation method.
If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
I am not saying that the Mac doesn't have its own usefulness, that it is in some way lesser than the Dell, simply that it can't fulfil all the things that I need to accomplish when I use a computer. For that, I'm willing to pay that little bit more.
Why spend all that money? Buy the "Rebate Special" at Office Depot or wherever, then install Linux - Fedora, Ubuntu, whatever - good chance you'll match the performance of the other two, and at a MUCH LOWER price.
Teen Angel - a Ghost Story
I hate to say it but I think that the Mac is a better solution for most people.
I just told my father to get a Mac.
He is tired of the security problems with his PCs. He has 3 PCs right now. One at his home here, one at his place in North Georgia, and a Laptop.
All he uses his computer for is Email, digital pictures, and paying bills on line.
I could set him up with Ubuntu but where would he find support for it when I am not around? I don't know how good Dell is at Ubuntu support and frankly he isn't the most technical person on the planet.
Apple has figured out what most people want to do with a PC at home and produce a nice bundle that just works.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
It goes to eleven.
No one buys a computer just for the hardware. Hardware is pretty useless without software. If someone is only choosing the Dell over a Mac because the hardware is slightly better, then they deserve Vista.
Choose the best tool for the job. If you'll be more productive with OS X, and you're only choosing between these two systems, then obviously choose the iMac.
Developers: We can use your help.
I'd go with the iMac because of the Unix under the hood. I realise I could do the same with the Dell and a flavor of Linux (and could manage that quite happily), but I find OS X to be the friendliest when it comes to GUI.
Why? Because the iMac comes with Leopard and the Dell comes with Vista. I have been recommending Macs to everyone now that they contain Intel chips. You can buy a Mac and if you hate OS X, you can just install Windows or Linux. You can't install OS X after you realized Windows Vista sucks on your brand new Dell.
With Boot Camp - although I prefer VMware for my legacy windows needs - you are guaranteed a machine with excellent Windows driver support. Apple provides all the drivers you need right on the Leopard DVD.
Want to try something new and have a perfect fallback plan if you hate your new OS? You get the iMac. If you buy the Dell and hate Vista you're out of luck unless you find a Linux distro the suits your needs. Unfortunately, as a Linux user since the mid-90's, I still can't recommend it as a viable home desktop alternative for most people I know.
I'm a Mac fan now. It has it's quirks, so does XP(which have become quite tolerable) but Vista is really getting on my nerves. Unless I'm building a Linux or BSD machine, then it would be that XPS. It would make one nice looking *nix machine. But it's a personal choice, it took me awhile to learn to deal with XP's quirks, KDE's were easy to deal with though(actually refreshing) and recent advances only make it more-so. So I can see people choosing Vista over Mac, but personally I've dealt with my last Vista machine.
Let's just focus on the hardware for the sake of argument. Go through the customization and make sure you are comparing similar components on similar systems. The iMac comes out cheaper. Then add in VAT, and the iMac comes out much cheaper.
Furthermore, rummaging around on the Dell site shows no XPS that is an all-in-one unit. The description says all-in-one, but the pictures clearly show a separate box.
OS X is still an advantage. You can order the Dell with XP, so Vista won't be wasting your resources. Ordering with linux preinstalled, should be possible, but obviously not something Dell intends to make easy.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The Dell XPS One only looks more expensive. If you customize it and remove Vista (a must anyway) the price isn't as bad. Then you can install your flavor of Linux and look at all the power.
(I have to keep this short 'cause I'm suppose to be listening in a classroom right now, not posting to Slashdot.. :)
..but having looked at both the Macbook Pro and the Dell XPS m1330(yes, I know the article is about desktops, but...), I ended up with the Dell. It was a very tough call, and for a while it seemed as if I would be purchasing a Mac, however, the Dell edged out on:
1) Size. I really like small laptops. While the 15" MacBook pro was sleek and light, I like the carry-around feel of the Dell better.
2) Price. For the specs I needed, the prices were about the same, until I found Dell's refurb site. I bought a scratch 'n dent special with the exact features I needed for far less than a refurbished Mac. (The laptop has already recieved a few more scratches anyway, so it's not like I cared)
3) OS. Yes, you heard that right. Vista got dumped the first day for Ubuntu 7.10, which runs near-flawlessly on thi slaptop. Even stuff like the media access key on top and webcam worked out of box. The only thing that doesn't is the built-in mic, which is slightly annoying. Bluetooth could be better. But after configuring compiz fusion, even my Mac friends are envious of my desktop environment....
Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase. However, I'm still recommending Mac laptops for my friends. Mostly because they won't be calling me as much for help...
Shameless plug for my photos on Flickr
Why are we arguing between two different retail computers? Am I the only one who considers computers to be nothing more than components? I'd save the money, and build it myself.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
It is the software that you have to live with, and Leopard is hands-down better than Vista could ever hope to be.
Why anyone would actually pay $100 more for a Dell than a roughly equivalent iMac is also mysterious. I thought Dell's strong point was their ability to undercut their own Mothers.
and yet I have to concede that the Dell XPS One is an impressive looking AIO. I dare say its industrial design appears to be superior to the iMac's. It also bests the iMac with its TV tuner and Blu-ray option. I also have to admit that I'm typing on my office machine - an Inspiron - that I bought because Apple no longer offered a low-end laptop with dedicated graphics; consequently I have grown to appreciate Dell hardware. However, Dells will never run OS X (without hax0ring), and OS X is far superior to Windows. I am so much more productive on my G5 than on my Dell, but until I can justify purchasing a MacBook Pro for the office I'll be on my Inspiron. Even though Dell hardware may be nice for what it is, and even though I was justified in getting a Dell over a Mac for my business, I'd still opt for and recommend a Mac if at all possible.
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so
Apples are usually red, and have a bitter sweet flavor and usually crunchy texture, while Oranges are generally orange (hence their name), generally juicier, with a sweeter yet more acidic flavor.
I don't know I'll have to do some more research, can anyone point me to some sort of website where idiots post their opinions about things they dont really understand?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Isn't it a false economy to say that the iMac is cheaper? A PC will last you about 2-3 years before it starts to creak but a monitor should theoretically last you much longer, most people only buy new monitors because they're switching from CRTs or what something bigger. With the imac you lose the monitor when you upgrade and have to factor the cost of it in when buying the next system. With a Dell you could save yourself $300 off and reuse the monitor. Dells also are much easier to incrementally upgrade than imacs.
No wait. Let me expand that. I just reread. No dedicated video card on the Dell???? Mooohahahahhah.
I like Macs. My family owns quite a few. I'm typing on a MacBook Pro that is only about 6 months old. But I still don't see why Apple doesn't put a media reader (of any kind) on their computers. They don't have to put 7 kinds, they could put even just one (like SD), but no. For all their "this is a Mac, this is easy" you still need to connect the camera with a cable or get a card reader. PCs have been doing this for so many years, this is one thing I can't quite figure out.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
For the price your going to pay for either, I could build something better, add a 20% markup, and still save you money.
Why even bother discussing something so silly? I cringed when I first saw the commerical for the XPS one... it's another bad idea from Apple that's now spreading around the market. With the obvious exception of laptops/tablets, all-in-one computers are garbage. they're hard to upgrade, hard to repair (if necessary) and a complete waste of a monitor.
I mean, honestly, who's going to buy a piece of proprietary Dell crap? Only Apple can trick people into paying a premium for that.
As far as I'm concerned, the XPS one has no market. Anyone hunting for a desktop PC is going to want a standard box for half the price, and be able to re-use major components (like the monitor) later. If someone wants to pay for an all-in-one setup, they're just going to get the Mac, since they probably have more money than sense anyway.
Whoever came up with the XPS One at Dell really didn't think it through that well.
One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
Mossberg says it is a better machine, but Vista and its built-in software make it inferior than Apple iMac's Leopard and iLife suite.
Who cares what's inside the box? It could be a box full of wet sand and duct tape for all I care. If it runs your software faster and provides a better user experience, that's the winner.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
If a user is not intelligent enough to load whatever software they want on the hardware they purchased then they deserve everything they get.
I pitty those who feel they have to use what comes in the box. In the meantime I'll be buying the best hardware for my dollar when I'm buying hardware and still use whatever software I choose.I'm really confused. The dell is more expensive, has an intergrated graphics chip, which on a desktop is really ridiculous, and yet its ahead of the iMac? If you read the article you see that Mossberg is giving the edge to the Dell based on a side headphone jack and USB port, and a separate button to put just the display to sleep. These are valid points, but I don't see how you draw the conclusion that its ahead based on this whole equation.
Who cares which one looks better on paper. Which one will still be working 6 months after you buy it?
I will buy neither, for Green reasons.
A whitebox PC can be upgraded piece by piece without throwing the whole thing out, and is going to last a heck of a lot longer than those tiny things with all those parts crammed in close together, generating heat and vibration.
My advice is to build your own machine, and buy parts that will last five years, then recycle responsibly. One way to do this is to use a friend's box from a Dell XPS one to ship your parts back to Dell for recycling.
I haven't been impressed by the reliability of Macintosh hardware, nor has Dell really blown me away. A well-planned white box computer can last upward of a decade although you'll have to replace the hard drive at the five year mark.
technical writing / development
Of the two, the Mac is cheaper, and you can upgrade to equivilant RAM and buy an OEM copy of Windows for it, for the price of the XPS, and still end up with a better graphics card. Unless you're just some anti-mac fanatic, or the XPS matches your particular desired aesthetics, you'd be stupid to not choose to Mac.
Also, I think the disc indicator on the XPS is horrid. A glowing light beside your screen whenever a disc is inserted? Annoying.
Mossberg brings up the position of the USB ports. He prefers their placement on the side of the Dell, versus the back of the iMac. I have a Dell widescreen monitor with side mounted USB ports, and plugging cables into them is messy, asymmetric and ugly. If I were to spend the extra money for the show piece Dell, I would not want to ruin the lines, or create clutter by using those ports.
Before you jump on the specs, find out what actually comes in the box. The Dell has a faster CPU; 2.2GHz vs 2.0 in the Mac, as well as a tv tuner, more RAM, and A/B/G/N wireless. The video card? The 2400XT 128MB is something of a joke card and not really worth bringing into this argument. Integrated video will stand up just fine comparatively. The rest of the specs are the same, and yet you are here insisting the Mac has better hardware? Try again.
Then I bet you people would want the XPS. For such an enlightened open source crowd, I don't see how you could stand Apple. If you do so much as find a bug or link to an online manual you get sued. You people scream about he vendor lock in Microsoft puts on you... just try getting those shiny apple programs you fell in love with to run on Linux.
Personally I like the all in one design, but not enough to get one for myself. Give me a black or beige box that I can upgrade for as long as the ATX standard exists.
...a Dell do not have any sex appeal at all.
I'll take the one that runs OS X. Who really cares about the hardware?
Apple's hardware has never been price-competitive with generic equivalents purely on a hardware basis. Apple's margins are significantly higher than Dell's, and since they don't have any magic margin fairy that just means they're charging more for the same components, or shipping lower performance hardware for the same money. And Apple's designs are often wildly overrated... I'd happily have paid more for a Thinkpad running OS X than my Macbook Pro with its fragile design, insecure power connector, insecure lid latch, lousy keyboard, lousy single-button trackpad, poor user interface (no, a slowly throbing light is a crappy sleep indicator: I want to know if the thing's sleeping at a glance), connectors on the side where they get in the way (the only connectors I want on the sides or front are a USB port and the earphone jack), sealed-in hard drive, no docking station (at least once a week I forget to plug in something when I move my laptop to my desk) and so on...
On the iMac: connectors on the back: good. ALL connectors on the back, so you have to feel around for them: bad. Keyboard: may be the worst ever. All on one design: great if you need it, unacceptable if you need an external monitor.
You don't get a Mac because you're looking for the best computer you can get, you get a Mac because of the software, and put up with it. I guess if you're lucky you'll get a case of Stockholm Syndrome and flame me for pointing out what you've been repressing all these years.
It really doesn't matter how good Apple's computer is. In my and a lot of people's opinions, the lock-in factor instantly dooms it. If I stick with Dell and Windows, then in a couple of years, I don't have to return to Dell if I don't want to, and I can still keep my software investment. With Apple, you have to throw away EVERYTHING to get away from Apple.
If I could (legally) buy OS/X for standard hardware, I would seriously consider it. Until that day, Apple computers will never darken my door. (And spare me the B.S. that Apple wouldn't make money that way. It's wrong and stupid, and I don't feel like debating it yet again.)
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
I use Vista, therefore, by extension I am an inferior person. This slogan does not compute, try again.
Software failure. Press left mouse button to continue.
Guru Meditation. #0000031. ********.
I'm kind of glad there isn't five or six ugly looking slots on my iMac, and I'm fine using a tiny USB card reader with the little extension dongle it came with, I just can't figure out why the extra USB ports on the keyboard don't have enough juice to run the card reader.
But if forced at gunpoint I'd pick the mac. First, I like simple and elegant. Second, Dells all run Microsoft OS and I absolutely hate the way MS writes their software. MS software all seems bass-ackwards to me, starting with the directory seperator ("\ is ass backwards, Bill) to its double click.
If there is one thing that confounds me when I'm trying to show someone how to use a computer it's that godoffal damned fuckwitted doubleclick. I wind up exasperated saying "click on the icon and press 'enter'. It's easier. Its frustrating to new users.
And it's pointless. There's no reason why you should have to have two clicks in a certain time period; one click should highlight, a second should execute. Especially since MS and Linux mice have more than one button!
There are so many things I hate about MS software (not even including bloat, bugs, etc) I'd run out of bits listing them all.
So give me a few new parts and let me install Linux. If I have to buy a whole box it'll be a mac.
-mcgrew
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Who cares... It's a Mac, only 8% of the poulation would even give a crap and take the time to respond and post to this topic. Besides blow out Vista and install XP and most head aches are gone... Damn it, I just posted and I don't use a Mac except for testing at work because I have too... Oh well, maybe there is a reason to... No, there isn't please ignore this post.
It's in hex, it goes to 0xFG
Please stop stalking me, bro.
...does anyoe else feel like Apple tries to trap you and take over your life ala RealPlayer? That's why I never buy anything Apple. I'd rather get something manufactured by someone who isn't forcing me into all their products if I want to do anything.
Generic mp3 player over iPod.
PC-clone over Mac.
One last thing: Sometimes I wonder; "Is that someone's signature? Or do they type that at the end of each post?"
Personally, I'm still choosing neither. Why? Because I can't afford them and I don't spend enough time using a desktop machine to justify it if I could. I put money into my laptops, because that's where I live and work. For my desktop, I want a big case that I can dig around and play in. And for the most part it's all cheap stuff.
I agree whole heartedly. My main computer is the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on and for a server I have a tower PC with Linux.
FalconShould there be a Law?
ad05f23f6818d32c651255afe06654503780d0496010b0be22ef1354a2811dee
Yes you can install OS X on your brand new Dell - it's called Hackintosh. See you nearest torrent representative for details.
Goateetastic?
What?
Dell runs Vista, Linux, XP etc...
iMac runs OSX, Vista, Linux, XP etc...
Want to run OSX (legally) and you need a Mac. There's no alternative if you want to run OSX.
Most people are either going to run OSX or Windows, comparing Windows systems to Macs is stupid. You buy the right tool for the job. Macs tend to be more stable and reliable for video and audio work. In a recent test on The Gadget Show (UK TV Show) a very expensive Sony laptop wouldn't even play HD footage, even a lowly Macbook would.
with the exception of built-in camera card slots, they have the same features, Apple builds the play-back controls into the keyboards, and as the man says, add the options to the iMac like wireless mouse and Keyboard and you have the same price and machine. As they are both Intel based I can't see wht similar hardware would be priced differently. The advantage that I see with the iMac is that you can run Win/Macos/Linux on the same hardware, and OS upgrades are cheaper. Does the Dell have a built-in camera? I missed that part.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Having been a PC user since my first 286 back in '88 or so, I have to say I am now a total convert to the Mac. I have had zero problems with its hardware, have adapted to the new OS with no problems, and I have Bootcamp and a copy of XP for when I want to play my games.
Honestly I wish I had switched earlier. With Parallels I can use Windows under OSX when I need to, and can easily install a linux distro if I am feeling nostalgic.
The Dell hardware may be fine but the difference in OS is the deciding factor. I don't spend time fighting the OS to accomplish a task the way I did under MSxx.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
That also brings into point my first consideration. I remember back in the 70's or 80's when a lot of the American car companies were having trouble because of the new Japanese models. American companies kept putting out more and more of what they wanted the public to buy and the Japanese companies were finding out what sold and focusing on that. It was only when American companies began to realize what was going on that they started listening to customers instead of telling them what was good or desirable.
American car companies still haven't learned the lessons form the '70s and '80s. They still refuse to produce fuel efficient autos. Though there are more flex fuel American autos where are the hybrid and all electric vehicles? GM withdrew the one all electric vehicle they had, the EV1 while there was a waiting list of people wanting to buy, or lease as GM was only leasing them, one.
FalconShould there be a Law?
...Or a second freaking mouse button on the laptops. Multi-touch my butt. Just add the second mouse button AND let us do multi-touch!!!
I sent my Dell laptop back to Dell for repair three times within 6 weeks, and each time it came back it was worse than when I sent it. It is now a doorstop. Their service sux and you can barely understand their English. I went elsewhere when I bought my new computer.
-- Carey
Which one would run Ubuntu Linux more smoothly? That's the one I'd choose and my guess is that they'd do it equally well. That said, all-in-one desktops are pretty cool and as I get older and care less about building machines myself, these seem more appealing.
No matter where one stands on the Mac versus Windows divide, it's good to see that someone finally pulls off a PC that is not a standard box. Pity that it's the first one in 10 years or so. It's even more surprising given the unbelievable number of crappy Intel and Microsoft we-could-be-just-as-cool-as-Apple-if-only-we-wanted-to prototypes that got dragged out to some trade show or other every year.
That's what I've always figured their reasoning was. There isn't a ton of space on the MacBook either. But the MacBook could have just one card reader (like SD). On something like the iMac they could put them in back or on the bottom so you don't have to see them but they are easily accessed.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I would take the iMac Intel Core 2 Duo for a number of reasons: better, more useful software, solid hardware, beautiful 20" or 24" display, very slick hw/sw integration and good looks. I don't see any reason to buy a Windows PC any more. If I ever did decide get a traditional tower model, it will be running Linux or Mac OS X. But for me it's Apple laptops all the way.
Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
Buy the Dell and install Ubuntu Linux on it: you get nice hardware and nice software.
NO
I just faced a similar question. I jumped into a laptop. Should I chose the Dell XPS 1530 or the Macbook Pro 15.4"?
The Dell;
2.2Ghz/800Mhz FSB. 4M L2 cache Core 2 Due 7500
2GB DDR2 667Mhz
2MP Camera
8600M GT 256MB DDR3
120GB 7200 RPM SATA
Vista Home Premium
1 yr at home 24/7 support
Wireless
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
56Whr 6 cell battery.
About $1300
The Macbook specs can be seen on the website.
It has the same video card, but 128MB less RAM.
Has a better battery. Macbook Pro has LED screen, Dell doesn't.
90 day support, not 1 yr onsite.
Other than that, the specs are very similar. But
The Mac is $2000.
I ended up going the refurb route and getting the 3 yr warranty
on the Mac. I am tired of screwing with Windows. I do have
bootcamp for those Windows only things (games) but have most my
stuff working in OS X.
Leopard is not super stable right now. I've crashed 3 times.
Bootcamp runs very hot as the fans don't kick in until it is
very much needed - eg. not soon enough. This Mac needs my
AP's to have frame bursting turned off. Can't write to NTFS.
Anyway, I made my choice. I'm not sure I made the right one
at this moment, but so far it's ok.
I don't think I've seen this mentioned.
I pretty much agree with Walt on this one. Dell has more options, I'd take the Apple.
It should be mentioned, however, that Walt Mossberg is a freaking shill for Apple. I would never use Walt Mossberg as an objective Technical Writer. He's got bias written all over him.
Check out Apple's site. It's littered with References to Walt because he never writes anything bad about Apple. He's the anti-Divorak.
ffakr.
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
Yes, OS X is awesome... but give me a touch screen all-in-one like the HP and I'm sold: http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447010-0-0-225-121.html
I'm going to preface this for the new guys: I'm a big PC-head. I build them, I program them, I sell them, and there were times when I had no home, but I still had a bitchin' fast PC :)
I'd take the Mac over the Dell, no hesitation. First of all, if I were in the market for a clean, quiet, space-saving computer, that would mean I'm not after breakneck performance and extreme gaming. The Mac is the undisputed king of the common desktop.
A few months ago, I would have said "Screw them both" and built a microATX PC running Windows MCE. Today, I'd buy the Mac at a similar price. This about-face happened when I upgraded an ancient Mac at work (used for compatibility testing), an old 400mhz G4. I loaded OS 10.4 on there, which went very smoothly. More importantly, for common tasks like office work and surfing, the damned thing feels every bit as fast as the 3.2ghz P4 next to it - apps launch quickly, the dock and menus stay responsive even when things are thrashing, it's almost like a prettified BeOS! It clearly falls short where raw processing is required, like video encoding and data compression, but the fact is most people would probably feel content with the 400mhz G4. It's all about the fluidity of the user interface. Windows XP, even on a rocket PC, will chug every time you click on something - crap scheduler, and nonexistent disk throughput management. Linux is even worse at it, there's a very tangible latency in every interaction as dynamic libraries take forever to link, though the raw throughput is greater once you get it going.
Windows Vista doesn't even accomplish the same level of fluidity on a machine 20 times faster with a whiz-bang graphics accelerator. What it does accomplish is to waste a few G4's worth of CPU doing nothing! That's why the Dell One, with its superior hardware, gets lower marks from me. Hardware is nothing without software, and PC software is like lead shoes covered in feces.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I made the right decision. I like Windows 2K, I like Windows XP. But I think Vista, WGA, etc are a step in the wrong direction.
After playing with OS X for a while, it excites me. It feels more like OpenStep and BeOS than classic Mac. The OS doesn't get in your way like Windows does.
I think the OS-X premium is worth it.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Besides on my Nokia phone, RealPlayer has never provided me with a pleasant experience. It was always impossible to find their deliberately hidden free player, which was an abomination upon itself. This has never been the case for any of my Apple products.
.cda extension Window's shows is fake. Managing my music and getting my playlists onto my iPod is absolute cake. Apple has not put any cumbersome restrictions on me when it comes to my music, and as mentioned iTunes is a great app -- especially on a Mac.
The older I get, the more I view maintaining my XP PCs to keep them running smoothly as a chore -- although it's not as bad as in the past. When I compare this to the fact my Macs just work, I really don't like working on my PCs anymore. I've been using PCs since the eighties and have always pieced my systems together after researching which consumer or workstation parts were best at the time, but now that Apple has switched to X86, I'm not planning on upgrading or buying another clone -- unless I get an itch for old time sake.
Apple's products are great. They're designed to be intuitive, quite easy to use, and when it comes down to it they really don't limit my choices. This probably sound strange since an iPod as an example officially requires iTunes, but if that app were crap and limited me on how I could import my music, which format I wanted to rip it to, made playlists difficult to manage, I would not use it, but fortunately this is not the case. I tried the Sony's abomination Sonic Stage back in 2002 and that was the most unpleasant experience I've ever had when it comes to music -- even more so than RealPlayer. I can thank Sony for pushing me to Apple, the way better choice.
Last I checked, there's no generic MP3 player, let alone any of the higher end wannabes that can handle as many formats as an iPod, let alone match Apple's true understanding of software and hardware integration while keeping things feature rich and intuitive. I can copy a CD's native AIFF format directly to an iPod -- the
So to ramble further, Apple has nothing in common with RealPlayer. Apple makes great products that do what they promise and generally much much more -- Apple always puts in that extra effort to make their products better, I've rarely seen this with any other company, most will cut corners long before they reach Apple's quality. When it comes down to it, users will flock to the choice that works best and Apple for me has always hit the mark.
higher than the iMac.
You left out wireless keyboard and mouse and the built-in TV function. While you may be able to get them for the iMac, they come standard on the XPS One. Subjectively he also says he likes the looks of it.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Why? Add a bunch of ugly holes, that get full of dirt/dust, to support a selection of media card formats that will soon become obsolete.
People typically keep their macs for considerably longer than an equivalent PC... Media card formats seem to be changing much more rapidly.
There are simply too many media card formats, supporting all of them is ridiculous.
Also if you only support one format, you're pushing your customers towards that format. And alienate anyone who needs other card formats.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
On a side note, I can't believe I just made an argument that a Mac was cheaper from a hardware standpoint.
*head asplode*
Depending on what the configuration is some Macs are cheaper than equivalent Windows PC. this has been true for a few years. The key though is that you have to start with a Mac then configure a Windows PC to the same specs as Apple doesn't offer nearly as many configurations as PC OEMs.
FalconShould there be a Law?
If the components inside were the same you find in a regular box, things that you can replace just like any desktop, then Dell is in the right track. If your Imac has a problem you go to apple and pray they can fix it, that is if you got apple care, if not good luck on ebay. If dell makes a machine that can take little space and look good, on top of being able to replace any part of it (including the flat screen), at your local Microcenter, Tigerdirect, or Fry's, then you got something there. Who cares what OS they have on them when you buy them, they both can take linux!
Intel's desktop processor page
The Dells have either a E4500 or E6550
2.2 GHz clock / 2 MB cache / 800 MHz FSB
2.33 GHz / 4 MB / 1333 MHz
All ship with only 667 MHz DIMMs
Intel's mobile processor page
The iMacs have either a T7300, T7700, or X7900.
2.0 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.4 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.8 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
All ship with only 667MHz SO-DIMMS
BTW, if a 128MB 2400XT is a joke, then WTF do you call integrated video?
The highest specced XPS ONEs have Mobility Radeon HD 2400's, memory is unlisted
while BASE iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2400 XT's with 128MB GDDR3
The highest end iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2600 PROs with 256MB GDDR3.
The iMac has better specs, flat out. It most likely uses a lot less power and weighs less also. The XPS ONE is a very well integrated _PC_ for sure, and has other nice features the iMac doesn't. I think Dell did a great job with the hardware integration and bundled features, and it is somewhat on par with the iMacs, IF you leave Leopard and iLife out of the picture anyway.
Personally, those speakers have got to go!
The base configuration is hard to compare. Dell has no name integrated Intel UMA video. Apple has an ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB of GDDR3. Big plus for Apple. Dell has wireless keyboard and mouse. Apple will upgrade to them very easily. Dell and Apple have equivalent wireless per specifications. Dell has a TV tuner. Apple will let you add one (external) for $199. Plus for Dell. Dell has 2GB of RAM, not upgradable at all. Apple has 1GB of RAM but allows an easy upgrade, up to 4GB. Plus for Apple. Dell has an 8-in-1 media reader and Apple does not. Plus for Dell. Dell has Adobe Elements included. Apple has iLife included. Dell has no camera. Apple has an integrated iSight. Plus for Apple. Dell has Vista. Apple has Leopard. I'll not comment. So, what about mid-range systems? Dell XPS 2.33GHz, 2GB DDR2 667MHz RAM, ATI Radeon HD 2400 ??MB RAM, 320GB 7200 Hard Drive, 8x DVD+/-RW, 20in wide screen, wireless keyboard/mouse, 802.11n wireless, integrated audio 2.0 speakers, 8-in-1 media reader, hybrid TV tuner Windows Vista, Adobe Elements, 15 months of Norton Internet Security, Microsoft Office Home 2007 2 years parts and labor $1,899 Apple iMac 2.4GHz, 2GB DDR2 667Mhz RAM, ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 256MB RAM, 320GB 7200 Hard Drive, 8x SuperDrive, 20in wide screen, wireless keyboard/mouse, 802.11n wireless, integrated audio 24w speakers, no media reader, external TV tuner, iSight camera Mac OS X Leopard, iLife, iWork 1 year parts and labor $1,778 Apple wins in processor speed, video, integrated camera, and price. Dell wins via the 8-in-1 card reader and 1 year extra warranty. If you do not need a TV tuner, take $199 off of the Apple price...down to $1,579. I have to go for the Apple, most would unless there is a compelling reason to have an 8-in-1 card reader or you think the Apple is going to tank in 1 year. If you must have Vista (why?), you can purchase it for the Mac for about the price difference (TV tuner included!)
The Essential One, The Music Two, The Entertainment (Where Music != Entertainment) Three, The Performance (Where Performance is mutually exclusive with Music and Entertainment?). Multiply by the number of Vista versions and...
Maybe in the past, but I'm not so sure of the present. We have mid range Dell's at work (can't recall exactly what they are). We're a small hospital and there are about 75 PCs of various ages, all running XP. They just work. There is the occasional hard drive failure, the occasional monitor going south, but that's about it.
The first tyme I used XP it was installed on a Dell and it froze when booting up. Whether it was because of XP or the hardware I don't know but it gave me a bad impression.
I recently bought a Mac Book Pro hoping to get off the Microsoft treadmill and yet continue to use Photoshop. After about a week of very stable running, it kernel panic'ed left and right. After dealing with the Usual Suspects - and learning more about the internals of OS X than I had really wanted to - it appeared to be the fault of an (Apple supplied) stick of memory.
I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro I got in August and the only problem I've had with it, other than typing related, is software. I ordered it online and when I got it a utility I ordered with it wouldn't work when booting up, it gave me an err message. I went to a Genius Bar at an Apple store and it turned out the version Apple sent to me was for a previous version of the MBP. And occasionally FireFox spontaneously crashes, but then it asks if I want to restart it and with the websites open that was open when it crashed. Even counting these however I've had far less trouble with the MBP than I had with all but one Windows PC I've had.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Which card reader? You might want an SD card reader, but my camera has Compact Flash, and others may prefer Yet Another Type Of Card.
There are too many choices in the card-reader world, so Apple decided to save a few bucks on the BOM and punted. If the user needs a specific card reader, then he can get it anywhere for a few bucks.
Yes, I know Apple makes laptops too. I have no problem with them if you're a Mac person. I just don't "get" the whole category of computers that the iMac and XPS One fit into. What is it, the bigger screen vs. a laptop? Hell, you could buy a laptop *and* a 24" LCD screen for less than an XPS One, and then you'd have a really nice computer with the same huge screen *and* it'd be fully portable!
I agree compeatly. A laptop is a terrific all-in-one and if you want a larger monitor get one.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Wireless K&M are not included, but the iMacs do all have Bluetooth standard.
The Dell has the card reader & tuner & more memory standard, and blu-ray in the high end. It costs more in the low end, and the same in high end as iMacs.
Across the board, the iMacs have DL-DVD burners, Bluetooth, better CPU/graphics, less memory, and lower price. The high end iMac has a bigger, 24" screen , same memory, better CPU & graphics, and same price.
He wasn't talking about all that when he said the design was slightly better. He meant the physical design, including stuff like card reader slots, and hideous speakers.
Dell doesn't really want to give any particular specs on the processor
Maybe you missed it but next to the "Processor/Display" box on Dell's page for the XPS One there's a question mark. Click on it and you get what the cpu specs are.
FalconShould there be a Law?
If I'm going to have to throw the whole thing out once it becomes obsolete, I'm going to buy the one that's going to last the longest.
If I were to go strictly on how long it would last I'd have to pick the iMac. I bought 2 Macs that were about 3 years old when I bought them. The first one I got 1992, it lasted until 2000. The second I got in 2000 a few months after the first one died, it died in 2006. During the same tyme I bought 2 brand new Windows PCs. In the first year the hdd and the motherboard had to be replaced on both. And because of OS crashes I had to reinstall Windows on both a bunch of tymes.
Oh, and the PCs were major brands. The first was a Gateway and the second was an HP.
FalconShould there be a Law?
What about integrated video camera that the iMac has, or the Mini-DVI that I connect to my HDTV from my iMac ? I don't see those of this Dell that probably won't be around in six months.
or something like that?
According to the Fool Apple's market share is 6.3% slice of the domestic PC market, twice what you say. However that's still a small share of the market. However it looks as if Apple Macintosh Computers Likely To Gain Market Share. And a Wharton Prof Debunks Market Share Myth.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I choose the XPS, but I would opt out of the Windows Vista they want to sell with it. I'd rather buy the machine without anything on it, then I could buy Leopard and use the hackingtosh patch (use google if you don't know what it is) to install it on my XPS.
I swear I am going to go crazy if I keep hearing people say industrial design when referring to every single product (especially Apple products) under the sun.
What ever happened to the word 'design?' Do you catch the ghey if you just say something has a nice design? Do you have to say 'industrial' before 'design' so you sound all high-tech? Is it like 'design' is a homosexual concept to men, so you have to say 'industrial' to make it sound manly?
I mean, I get it. I have a Mac Pro at home and a Power Mac G5 at work. Industrial design is probably the best way to describe them. It is NOT the best way to describe other products which are simply well-designed. I have an iPhone, nice design. The Dell XPSOne looks very well designed. But what the hell is industrial about it? It was bad enough when every review of an Apple product that in some way incorporated metal had to say it had great industrial design. But now we're applying it to plastic Dells, too?
What's next, man, I really like the industrial design of your tie?
arrrrgh!!!!
They're not saying it's better because it is better,, they're saying it's better because they don't like Macs. If they had good reasons to say it was better, you can bet you'd be hearing them.
It's the only answer that makes sense, and it makes good sense.
The only more confused ones are the people buying the iMacs, with Apple bundled memory upgrades.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
The Dell XPS M2010 is better than them both!
Don't put advice in your sig.
I would LOVE to be able to get a cheap mac for my parents, but the math just doesn't work out. I installed XP on a barebones PC that I picked up for about $200 and gave it to them. It's pretty slow, but they don't know the difference (all it does is check e-mail on their dialup account). I'd love to be able to hook them up with a mini or iMac, but they won't spend the cash for it and I can't afford to do it for them.
Meh. When Apple can match the price of a homebuilt pc, I'll switch them. I don't see it coming soon.
I would think that there would be multiple types on the larger models (like the MacBook Pros). At least SD and CF (which I think would be the two most common). On a smaller model the like MacBook, they could put just SD (which seems to be the most common on small cameras today) or xD (which is becoming more popular).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Who uses Macs? Home users? Photographers etc.? I bet most if not all real photographers use CF cards, so if Mac included a reader it should be CF card readers. Home users wouldn't have any use for it. SD reader would be useful for home users, but then photographers etc. would find it useless. If Apple put only one reader they would have to make a choice and one of their loyal customer group would get disappointed. If put two (or more), well it would be a bulk PC vendor who do not know how to make decisions (typical PC vendors and MS try to put everything in their products, just in case). Thus, it's better not to put any media card reader in computer.
Isn't it a false economy to say that the iMac is cheaper? A PC will last you about 2-3 years before it starts to creak but a monitor should theoretically last you much longer, most people only buy new monitors because they're switching from CRTs or what something bigger. With the imac you lose the monitor when you upgrade and have to factor the cost of it in when buying the next system. With a Dell you could save yourself $300 off and reuse the monitor. Dells also are much easier to incrementally upgrade than imacs.
Where do you get the idea you can use the Dell monitor with another PC but you can't use the Apple monitor with another one?
FalconShould there be a Law?
Apple's hardware has never been price-competitive with generic equivalents purely on a hardware basis. Apple's margins are significantly higher than Dell's
While Mac prices may be higher than generic white, or beige, boxes but they are competitive with Dells.
FalconShould there be a Law?
No new iPhone for you!
The iMac isn't cheaper when you try and get this to a more "apples to apples" comparison. You need to add the following to the iMac to get things flush:
1) move to 2GB of RAM - $150
2) wireless mouse - $20
3) wireless keyboard - $30
That brings the iMac to exactly $1399...hurm...just like the Dell One. Don't forget the Dell One has a built in TV tuner as well, so that offsets things some as well.
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
I think the iMac and XPS One already has.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I'd love an option to buy a Mac Medium.... bigger than the (doomed?) Mini, yet not the $2500 Mac Pro.
Sign me up for a Mac Medium. I'd love to have an expandable and upgradeable Mac without the Mac Pro price tag. Then again I'd also like a MacBook Pro with, say a 21" display.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Yup. I chose an iMac 24" 1 year ago. Now, I have Leopard, maxed the memory at 3GB. Trying to give it a fair shake. I'm now in hindsight wishing I had gotten the separate display and built a new PC.
Sell it. You will probably get most of what you paid for it as Macs seem to hold their value pretty well.
#!/
I've got a MBP with the glossy screen and I like it. So far I haven't had a problem with viewing it and for graphics it's better than the old displays. However I've been looking for a monitor at least 24" for graphics.
FalconShould there be a Law?
The one reason I would choose a Dell over Apple anytime is the home support. If anything ever goes wrong with my dell computer, I run a 20 minute diagnostic test, speak to an agent over the phone for 20 minutes and the next day a technician is despatched to my house my the equivalent part. What's better, this warranty is valid for up to 3 years and Dell has never made a fuss. For USD 30 extra on purchase, I get nights and weekend support as well.
For people like my dad where things need to just work, Windows XP with a good firewall and antivirus program coupled with FireFox is sufficient. That and the convenient fact that if anything goes wrong, it'll get fixed by the next day. For that alone, Dell wins my vote.
I must add that I live in Malaysia and Apple here does not offer home service.
Although the iMac has had its share of quality troubles, the XPS systems have a pretty nasty record for this as well. Caveat emptor.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Somebody else posted that. It could be wrong. Not a bad guess though.
I have to admit I made a mistake, half of one that is. While it doesn't come with Photoshop it does come with Adobe Elements Studio which includes Photoshop Elements.
FalconShould there be a Law?
to go with the iMac. It had nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with getting off Windows. I'm a geek, but my family has benefited fantastically from OS X. I actually tend to use the Mac, even though I have to contend with the kids to get on it. For one thing, it boots up almost instantly. Mac is not better, Mac is just what a PC ought to be. Windows is worse.
Of course I won't be going to Dell, but Apple seems to go out of their way to put difficult rubbish in their machines (WiFi!) - and instead of viewing the enemy of their enemy as a friend, they are as much anti Linux as Microsoft are :/
Considering that Apple helped create a version of Linux for Macs, MKLinux I'd say Apple was friendly to Linux.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Also there is no right mouse button as I assume would be on the dell.
You can buy a two button mouse with the right button to use with a Mac. Though my MacBook Pro has only one button for the trackpad I have a two button trackball for it as well. Switching from Windows I was concerned about adjusting to having only one button for the trackpad, but it didn't take long before I got used to holding down either the command or the ctrl key to simulate the right click. I even got used to holding one of the keys down while clicking with the same hand.
FalconShould there be a Law?
When making any purchase it's about the right tool for the job. A 4x4 jeep in NYC, planting a cactus in Siberia, etc. makes no sense. Consumers need help in becoming better educated in the computer purchasing process and this does not help matters. First and foremost they need to be informed that there is no Ipod of computers as it's simply a more complex situation. The right computer from both a hard and software perspective requires a little investigation into the consumer to ensure you get the right tool for the job.
For example, thus far those modded up to the limelight regarding Macs are certainly right about how easy it is to use especially for older folks. However, have you ever tried to get a retiree in their 50s used to working on Windows their whole lives to use a Mac? Heck they don't want to learn anything new much less a completely new operating system regardless of how much safer or easier it is over time. I know a number of people who tried because they were told it'd be incredibly easy but it really isn't for many. Buying a Mac and booting Windows is not necessarily the ideal solution either as perhaps they'd loose out on the benefit of their wiz-kid grandson who lives nearby and loves canabolizing HPs or something.
The most important step in educating consumers on computer purchasing I think is first to get folks to understand that comparing Macs and Windows-based PCs is like comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended.) Sure they're both fruit and if you're hungry both will do the job. But if you know nothing of what an apple or orange is but hate tangerines, peeling things, have a vitamin C deficiency and countless other specifics aren't introduced into the decision then you'll have a less than optimal outcome at best.
Also, computers to some degree are luxury items and thus a qualitative analysis of price I think further confuses folks in what's an already nebulous situation. Someone may laugh at the $100 difference between the two machines Walt compared but would clearly go with the cheapest if not properly informed about the dramatic differences in the experience they'd have with each. Wouldn't you buy the cheaper hammer if both appeared and were proposed to you as being the same?
As with buying a car and many other items one needs to find out about their past experiences, current needs, customer support and product life expectations and a number of other particulars to find the ideal solution. I even see grandmas do so with power tools in Home Depot worth a fraction of the cost of a new computer but with computers uneducated folks are overwhelmed... and we're not helping matters with over-simplifications.
That's just my POV... no more, no less.
Because you said you could make one cheaper.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Honestly, it's much much nicer than the Dell, and arguably better-designed than the iMac, too.
http://www.gateway.com/programs/one/
With apple you're paying more for what they think is stylish looks and a brand name.
You nailed that one right on the head. I've been using Macs since the late 1980s.
At first I paid more because the Mac had that whole "GUI" thing, and I thought it was important. Of course, the "GUI" was just a bunch of hooey, until Microsoft brought Windows 3.1 to market. Then the "GUI" actually was worthwhile.
But I still stubbornly continued to use the Mac because I thought I could get a lot done with it, using flashy, stupid tools like HyperCard and AppleScript. I realize now that they were just hogwash, but for a long time I thought I was really productive with them. I ran a 1,200 page website with BBEdit and AppleScript, but I was just fooling myself. Deep inside, I was just transfixed by the smooth beige of the PowerMac series of desktops and towers.
Then the G3 and G4 machines came out, and I was transfixed by the colors and the spicy new advertising. Again I was confused. They *seemed* like reliable computers. When OS X came out, it seemed like a more powerful and stable OS, but in retrospect, I was just taken in by the fact that the hardware and the software *seemed* to work so well together. But of course, that was just an illusion.
Now that I use a Mac laptop and Leopard, it's the same thing, only worse. All of the Mac-only apps really suck, and I'm only keeping my Mac because of those bitchin' "'I'm a PC.' 'And I'm a Mac!'" ads. Goddammit! I just wish Apple would stop messing with my teenie little brain! Give me strength so I can escape the grip of their stylish good looks and that overwhelmingly powerful brand name! Please! Help me!
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
No, you're just locked into the proprietary Windows operating system. Dude. This is Slashdot, not digg you're posting to. You don't get to be all high and mighty about vendor lock-in regarding Apple unless you use a free operating system, say Linux, because, as you undoubtedly know, BSD is dying.
A comparable Apple box, with none of the versatility, would have run me a minimum of $1,200.
Hype.
America's greatest, and last remaining, export.
Feel free to believe the hype.
Last year's hardware, this year's software, when are you propeller heads gonna wrap your brains around this simple concept?
~Nyc
"The Supreme Pope of Tech Walter Mossberg..."
Never heard of him before this flamefest. Who is Walter Mossberg, and why does his opinion matter so much?
Is it a Roland Piquepaille, John Dvorak, or something else thing?
or
What I CAN attest to though, is this video (which is funny no matter which camp you come from!) takes the cake^Wpie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqNdxeAQb4Y, I mean come on, this is FUNNY!!
Besides, the pie perp MAY have had a Mossberg-style van Dyke!
Well, it may not be as funny as the video of Steve Ballmer offing Billy G. with an airborne chair while shouting "Developers! Developers! Developers!" and doing the MonkeyDance...then Darth Vader cutting Stevie the MonkeyBoy down with a light saber, but I am still camped out near Redmond trying to catch that video on my cellphone/vid camera!
I'm hoping to have this footage before Duke Nukem Forever comes out!!..I've been waiting for this (and that) for a looooong time!
BTW:
I have placed in the Top Ten the last seven years, with five of those seven in the top five, and have placed first the past two years in the "Wiley Coyote Perseverance and Dedication to the Mission Award" standings.
I am now allowed to enter the Wiley Coyote Souper Genius competition, and I have high hopes of success. *snicker* (afterall, I do have an inside contact at Acme!!!)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Why can no one pick the correct preposition anymore? It's inferior to.
Unless, of course, you meant "more inferior than". Certianly possible, given the subject(s).
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
All-in-ones are actually pretty much the same to upgrade as any other system; if anything it's slightly easier to upgrade because the layout on the inside is neater. They're certainly not as hard to work with as some would have you believe, although the display is a nearly unavoidable problem.
True, Apple doesn't exactly make life easy by soldering the iMac's processor to the motherboard, bit if you want to replace the RAM, HD or optical drive it's dead easy. This would, I imagine, even be true on the Dell XPS pile of phlegm. And TBH, I'd rather have something that runs my favourite flavour of UNIX out of the box, doesn't have trouble running Linux and will even run Windows without fault.
I also feel I will be in the minority when I say all-in-one is how computers should be. They're no more difficult to work with or upgrade than normal computers, and there's less cable mess at the back to remove when you do want to do something with it. Especially if it's a consumer computer for someone who doesn't know their *Points from their mouse pointers, using an all-in-one machine makes sense. That's why if someone has never touched a computer before and wants to buy one, I generally recommend an iMac: superior OS, guaranteed to work with the hardware, easy set-up.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
I'd buy the cheaper one and then install Ubuntu. Problem solved. Hell, I might even install Linux MCE and turn the lights on and off with my cell phone.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
The lowest-spec iMac is $200 less than the lowest-spec Dell. A wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, TV tuner, and 1GB of RAM would cost about $200. It's a wash, except with the Mac you get OS X instead of Windows.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Who cares? honestly whats the benefit of an all in one system over a desktop, and I'm sure most of us could build a comparable tower for less than those prices, whats the point in buying one besides desk space? I have no interest in a system i cant take apart and change.
with Apple's bootcamp drivers, and in Linux (albiet a pain to configure Xorg and such)
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
That an iMac is the best space-saving, quiet, all-in-one computer ever.
I always built my own because I didn't like OEM systems. Not anymore.
The best desktop machine I've ever owned is a HP Pavillion a6120n. I bought it at Circuit City during an end-of-model clearance, along with a Samsung 22" LCD, for $700. It has E4400 C2D processor, 2Gb memory, 400Gb storage, 7600gt (128Mb) DVI graphics, and a dual-layer burner.
Once home, I immediately wiped Vista and loaded OSX. The machine just screams. It's very, very stable; and some say, runs faster than an actual Mac.
Compared to an iMac or Mac Pro, I saved between $1000 and $3000.
Not only that, but now that there is an EFI emulator floating around, I was able to load Leopard from a retail distro I bought at the Apple store. I can take Apple updates and everything. Just like having the real thing - only better!!
OK dumbass, then change it to single-click mode (Windows 98). All of the icons have underlined names and look like they are links on an internet web page. Single click to your heart's content, you worthless piece of shit Mac user.
The deal breaker for me is the OS. OSX versus Vista/XP? Not even close!
Vista/XP is __SO__ 1990s.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Okay, say you received $$$ and must put it into an investment (house, computer, -- I don't think "savings account" or "stock market" counts) or lose half of it due to taxes. I'd think I'd go with the Dell just because it has better hardware and, generally, you can't run the latest video games on a Mac, especially one with "average" hardware.
I've not seen it, but I've heard that the film 'Who Killed the Electric Car' makes quite a solid case against most of the claims you have here.
While the film itself is also pretty controversial, it does, IMHO, seems like the US is almost suspiciously behind the power curve when it comes to making electric city cars.
Erskin
geek.
What's the point in exchanging one foreign-supplied source of energy (oil) for another (Brazillian ethanol)? Part of the reason for alternative fuels is to be energy-independent.
Switchgrass, native to the US, is a better source for ethanol. Another option may be Algae. Algae can produce hydrogen as well as biofuel.
FalconShould there be a Law?
If free, these holes can be used to mount Other Things.
So, if you're an experienced PC constructor: Invest in a couple of large sheets of 1.5mm aluminium, work out how your (small) motherboard and components are going to fit to it around the mounting holes, screw some alu U-brackets around the edges, and the second plate onto the back, and ... bingo! ... you've got yourself an all-in-one flatty puter. Perhaps use a weeny Shuttle motherboard and 1U power supply to keep things compact, and use laptop harddrives and an external optical drive.
Plus points:
1) You get to choose which monitor to use.
2) If you make a mess of it and it looks awful, it's hidden behind the pretty screen.
3) You can take it off and attach it to another screen at a later date if you want.
4) You can use the large back surface are for some pretty extravagant passive heatsinking.
If the monitor has a back-panel ventilation grille, the pc-slab could be "stood off" with some spacers threaded onto the four mounting bolts. Experienced constructors could run amok with heatpipe arrays and radiators etc for silent passive cooling.
In fact, maybe Panasonic or Sony should already be making these things as general-purpose linux-based "media centre modules" to be fitted to the back of their HDTVs.
Eric Baird
Elements vs. iLife is a pretty silly argument to make dude, have you ever used either one?
Another thing that some Mac fanatics gloss over is that Apple has never really competed for the low-end or mid-low-end computer segment, though. I'm not even talking about beige boxes--just look at a cheap Dell vs. Apple's offering. The Mac Mini has style, smallness, lower power consumption (and of course OS X) going for it... and pretty much nothing else. The phrase "low-end Macintosh notebook" is nothing more than a contradiction. I haven't priced them recently, but last I checked the cheapest one they offered was over 2.5x the price of the cheapest full-featured Intel notebook available.
The budget crowd is probably the BIGGEST group of consumers, and for these people Apple is still nowhere near competitive. That's not necessarily a bad thing, mind you--in my opinion, Apple SHOULDN'T be cutting any corners trying to offer a bargain-basement option--but it's still something the fanboys tend to neglect when they spout off about how "Macs are cheaper now!!!!!!!!!". No, they aren't. They're arguably cheaper for a very specific middle-of-the-road, I'm-not-ever-going-to-bother-building-my-own minority market segment. But, the thing is, Macs weren't designed to compete with PC's cost-effective hardware... it was designed to be a cohesive hardware + software package, and in this regard they blow away Windows entirely.
To be honest, out of these two, I would go for the Dell. Yes, Vista is a hard drive munching monster of an OS (no really, I mean this literally), which is filled with pointless features, and seems to have been made by a 5 year old with the attention span of a 2 year old. Also, Microsoft are abusing their monopoly, for instance, it is hard and sometimes impossible to network between XP and Vista, and Microsoft seems to be trying to phase out the older versions of Direct X, just to force people to eventually upgrade. I would say to get the Dell, and format the Hard Disk, and then install XP instead (This is of course, unless Microsoft produces an update for Vista which removes the junk you dont want, such as file indexing and the monopoly abuse of phasing out older Direct Xs, which they won't). However, I would also say: Why buy from Dell, when you can get just as good a machine, but for a lot cheaper, from some of the custom PC companies like Cube 24/7.
The holes in reality are coming The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie..
I agree with the poster(s) who disliked the idea of needing to upgrade / fix either the monitor or the guts and therefore using use of the other; it would be nice to know that the monitor portion could work if the guts die (& vice ersa). In *that* case, I'd really like the convenience ;)
timothy (not logged in and 'scuse any typos -- OLPC keyboard hoorah!)
Who is this old joker anyway? He should go back to his meds.
HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!
From TrollGoons
Monty Python's Flying Circus
Jombeewoof is a bastard who thinks the world owes him a living. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267807&cid=202 [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] 07637 [slashdot.org] Jombeewoof tried to destroy an Internet Service Provider in Massachusetts by expecting large bandwidth without paying anything. Educated alone doesn't pay the bills. Jombeewoof is not worth your mod points and is a MySpace loser. Jombeewoof, give up, get off the Internet. The TrollGoons won't leave you alone.
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It would be irresponsible not to mention the Sony VAIO LT, which predates the new iMac and every other machine mentioned here -- all-in-one, wireless peripherals including low-profile keyboard, glossy widescreen display, etc.
I have a small corner desk with no room around it. The iMac pretty much takes up the room on the main desk (as a 24" monitor would), the printer, books and (quiet!) external drives take up the rest on the shelves. Anything else but a mini would be cumbersome, and noisy (did I mention that I HATE computer fan noise and HDD whine?). The iMac was perfect. The most I ever hear is the optical drive in those not-too-often times I use it.
Except that we can never power cars soley on ethanol, simply because we don't have enough room to grow the required amount of fuel.
AH, another one who wants one solution that fixes everything. What's needed isn't the 1 BIG THING. Instead it will take a number of different sources. Biofuels, whether alcohol or biodiesel, can be used where they are appropriate. In other places hydrogen, at first derived from fossil fuels then later algae produced Biohydrogen. And elsewhere, where appropriate EVs, Electric Vehicles can be used where there's enough sun for solar, where it's windy, or tidal power in coastal areas.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Yes, I really do. They are less reliable than separate boxes, because there are more integrated components to break and because the components are always specific to the model. If my Mac mini fails, I don't have to replace the monitor. If my monitor fails, I don't have to repair or replace my whole computer. And the only advantage of an all-in-one... that it's an all-in-one... is lost as soon as you need to expand it: external drives together with the necessary cables and power supplies add more clutter.
I have a small corner desk with no room about it. The Mac mini sits on a shelf, along with two external drives, and together with their cables and power supplies these physically take up more room than the equally quiet Mini-ITX sitting on the floor by my feet. I have opened up BOTH boxes the same number of times, and for the same reason... to add RAM. The only time the fact that the Mini-ITX box is on the floor is an issue is when I use the optical drive and (as you note) that's completely rare.
The fact that Apple hasn't had the equivalent of that Mini-ITX box since they dumped the Cube is the biggest problem in Apple's product line-up, in my opinion. Since they replaced the GPU in the Mini with the execrable Intel GMA-950 there simply is no Mac that I could envisage buying other than a laptop. The Mac Pro is huge and noisy, the mini is crippled by its very size, and the iMac is an all-in-one toy.
I prefer the Sony Vaio VGC-LT18E over either. Oh sorry I forgot - this is slashdot, we don't like Sony here...
realkiwi
I don't see the point wasting time on ethanol when a fully electric car is close. Also, I don't see how raising food prices helps us when combating rising fuel prices. The end goal IS to get rid of burning gasoline to move cars. Finding ways to supplement it just means we'll be using oil that much longer.
While fully electric cars may be around soon, that has a range of more than 100 miles and charges rapidly, both biodiesel and ethanol vehicles are here now. Rudolph Diesel, the designer and inventor of the diesel engine, ran his engine on oil made from hemp and peanut among other vegetable oils. Engines have also run on ethanol for years. Henry Ford himself designed and built a car that not only used hemp it the construction but also ran on fuel made from hemp in the 1930s, hemp he grew on his Iron Mountain Estate. And using sugar cane, or better switchgrass, won't raise the price of food. Sugar, refined table sugar, is nothing more than a sweetener but a lot of sweeteners in food is actually high fructose corn syrup. And switchgrass isn't used in human food period. Only by using corn to produce ethanol would the cost of food increase much. And both ethanol and biodiesel can be used by themselves and not as a "supplement" to petroleum.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I hope you realize that an iMac is essentially a Macbook Pro with [...]
... even though it was more portable than an iMac today is... and I've found a Mini-ITX box is more portable when I can depend on being able to borrow a monitor at the customer's site.
It's a macbook pro without the portability that you get a laptop for.
All the arguments about the form factor go out the window if you think laptops are okay.
Um, how do you figure? You think I use a laptop like I use a desktop? Or you do?
The "all in one" nature of the laptop is more or less essential if it's going to be a portable device, something you can carry with you, open up, and use anywhere. That's not true of a stationary desktop.
Yes, all-in-ones can be seen as a little more portable than headless desktops, but only a little, and it ain't even necessarily the case. I used the original Mac as a portable computer for a few years, but it was pretty inconvenient
Any laptop, made by Apple or not, is going to have the same characteristics, more or less (though the Thinkpad has a superior physical design). Desktops have a different set of characteristics, they have a different set of problems to solve, and Apple's desktops are far less well fitted to those problems:
The only headless model is crippled.
The midrange are only usable if you don't care about buying a new monitor every time you upgrade (since monitors become outdated far less quickly than computers), you don't care about having to replace the computer if the fragile monitor's damaged (which is why laptops are about the only computers I buy support contracts for) AND they're your only computer or you have ample desk space for multiple monitors.
And the high end are huge hulking monsters.
The arguments for expandability, reliability, etc., that you use against all-in-ones apply to laptops. If a person can reasonably dismiss those concerns to buy a laptop, then he can reasonably dismiss them for an all-in-one if he doesn't care about portability.
There are no dumb computer purchases except where a person without any knowledge, research or consideration bought a computer that wasn't right for him. This most often happens when the sales rep was trying to fill a commission and led the victim to a system that doesn't fit him, or when a newbie grabs the first shiny thing he sees at Wal-Mart.
Purchases made after consideration and research are all valid and reasonable, as they fit that person's individual needs and wants. The iMac is apparently not good for you. That's fine. Just don't project your specific wants and needs onto me, since the iMac is perfect for me.
I'm not projecting, I'm sticking to the point: I'm just talking about the hardware.
The arguments for expandability, reliability, etc., that you use against all-in-ones apply to laptops.
Yes. They do. That's one reason why I said, a couple messages back, *maybe* a laptop. I don't like tying up $2000 in a laptop to get a Macbook Pro when a Thinkpad for less than $1000 satisfies my hardware requirements. The only reason that I'd even consider it is the overwhelming advantage of portability.
There is no such overwhelming advantage for an all-on-one. You don't even reduce the number of boxes on and around your desk by getting an all-in-one: you actually have to make space for two and possibly three more boxes (the iMac power supply, your external drive, and its power supply if it's not bus-powered) than you would if you'd been able to get an Apple desktop comparable to a Mini-ITX box.
Unless you're a really unusual Mac buyer, it's not the fact that it's an all-in-one that makes it perfect, it's the software that's running on it. If you were buying a Windows box, I really really doubt you would have bought an iMac and used Bootcamp to set it up exclusively for Windows, because you'd almost certainly have ended up with more available desk space with a separate monitor and a little box on the floor somewhere around it.
And if Apple still made something like the Cube, are you ABSOLUTELY sure you wouldn't have ended up with one?
Then there are other benefits to the electric car too; the car becomes MUCH simpler. If we're going to make a switch, lets make a clean break that actually gives us a lot of net benefits, instead of trying to patch ICEs.
Oh, I'd rather go straight to electric vehicles, EVs, myself but we first need to make sure the electricity is there. Then again I'd rather go straight to fuel cell vehicles, as you say let's make a clean break.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Nuclear isn't needed. SciAm has a good article in the January 2008 issue. "A Solar Grand Plan" details how solar power can provide 69% of the US's electricity and 35% of it's energy by 2050. And that doesn't use any sort of speculation or pie in the sky dreams (except under Bush and maybe the next president of the USA). It uses current technology and incremental advances in technology. But right now EVs in every driveway and garage, heck just 10% is unrealistic.
Hopefully Tesla Motors will finish their car soon, I'd love to hear how they run in real conditions.
Agreed!
FalconShould there be a Law?
The Dell is is probably an 8600. Great desktop replacement. My "laptop" is getting a bit crusty and now have a few bad pixels. It may have to be replace soon but I can no longer find any WUXGA display in a ~15" or smaller form factor. Bummed. Even more distressing the lack of matte finish displays for laptops.