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pf has been available in ports for quite a while. Although it only works on the 5.x branch, I'm running it as my firewall on an old 166mhz Pentium.

Personally, I find FreeBSD easier to deal with, but that's just me.

yes it would really seem that way considering Freshports is still on the list you just posted

"Thus, you cannot legally include both GPL'ed code and New XFree86 licensed code in the same program."

The program here refers to the distribution as such. All Mandrake needs to do is to offer a choice in the installer: install XFree86 4.3 from disk or download 4.4 from an FTP site. Also, I think 4.4 will be available for MDK 10 either via official or quasy-official (pclinuxonline) channels.

Regardless of that, I think Mandrake should bo applauded for what they are doing. Some has noted the danger of fragmentation in case of a fork, but I think that freedesktop.org is already emerging as the new standard. This should boost their project, and I really hope that the remaining XFree developers would "rebel" against XFree86.org and join KP's development team.

So kudos to Mandrake! And if I read this correctly , the FreeBSD project is also closely tracking the developments at freedesktop.org, and they plan to upgrade the server ports to depend on fdo's extensions. This implies that they are planning to switch over when freedesktop's server is ready, or at least that's what I thought reading that (I don't know if it is possible for these extensions to work with xfree86.org's server implementation).

They have all the complexity and failings of UNIX with no software and limited compatibility.

Helevius

You are utterly retarded. A *BSD user needs only to know basic UNIX concepts to get stuff running. In fact, to use linux effectivly the same is also true.

...And probably runs on *BSD as well. Check http://www.freshports.org for a list of the FreeBSD ports tree.

Anyway, my question is this: How is FreeBSD as a desktop system?

Good! It's been my primary desktop at home for over a year now.

I no longer care much for WineX, and am far more interested in how well things like TV Tuners

Got a WinTV card for xmas, works great!

Digital Cameras

Haven't done this yet but will soon, have done some research though. At the very lest, you could get a separate media-reader and use it that way (which would be fastest). But there are programs like digikam and gtkam which provide a direct link.

USB

I have a USB mouse (Logitech) and laser printer (Laserjet 1012).

Firewire

Dunno, never used it.

Hope this helps!

Anyway, my question is this: How is FreeBSD as a desktop system?

Good! It's been my primary desktop at home for over a year now.

I no longer care much for WineX, and am far more interested in how well things like TV Tuners

Got a WinTV card for xmas, works great!

Digital Cameras

Haven't done this yet but will soon, have done some research though. At the very lest, you could get a separate media-reader and use it that way (which would be fastest). But there are programs like digikam and gtkam which provide a direct link.

USB

I have a USB mouse (Logitech) and laser printer (Laserjet 1012).

Firewire

Dunno, never used it.

Hope this helps!

Disclaimer: I am not anti-Linux. However, here is why I like FreeBSD..

1) PORTS. FreeBSD could win on this point alone. The ports system is AWESOME. I have never used Linux, but I hear a lot of people bitch about RPMs and "dependency hell". FreeBSD has dependencies but the ports system tracks all that. Every file, every version, every port is noted. I can just go to a directory and type "make clean install" and everything will be downloaded, built to my tastes, along with all dependencies and their dependencies and built in the proper order, then registered in the database. Daily I sync my ports tree and see what's new. If I want it, I can upgrade it (along with dependencies) safely with one command. It just doesn't get better than this. Recently, FreeBSD pass the 10,000 ports mark. There's also a nice overview of the ports system at Arstechnica.

2) Stability. FreeBSD is notoriously stable. You can pick any Netcraft report (such as here, here, here, here, or here. ) for evidence of this.

3) Consolidation. There is only one "FreeBSD". If I have 5.2 and you have 5.2, we have the same OS. There is no one "Linux". In reality, Linux is a kernel, and when you add a userland then you have a distribution. FreeBSD is kernel + userland.

4) File organization. Linux seems to lay out its file hierarchy somewhat randomly, with no consistancy of where an installed executable binary might be placed or separation of base/user. FreeBSD has polished this and adheres rigidly to a formal structure. For example, I know my base system is under /usr/bin. When I install an app, I know it'll be beneath /usr/local/bin for console apps or /usr/X11R6/bin for X apps. Base config files are in /etc, while config files for stuff installed via ports is in /usr/local/etc.

5) Community. I find the FreeBSD community to be less fanatical and instead more disciplined and polite. I feel like I'm getting help from someone wearing a suit & tie (though I doubt they really are..:) ) instead of a "LINUX RULEZ!!!" kid.

6) Documentation. FreeBSD has EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION, which is helped by Reason #3. There are also a number of excellent books on FreeBSD, all of which in this list I own. Sure, there are a bazillion books on Linux, but FreeBSD doesn't need so many because there's just one FreeBSD, and once you get beyond the OS, the rest is specific to the application/server and is not OS-specific.

7) Performance. FreeBSD is notorious for performing well. In fact, sometimes applications under Linux-emulation (see #8) run better than on a native Linux box. FreeBSD's TCP/IP implementation is also well-known for being very fast.

8) Linux-emulation. Most stuff for Linux is available as open-source and can be compiled natively for FreeBSD (and is probably in the ports tree), but for the few binary-only things that aren't, FreeBSD can still run them. Some of the Linux stuff I run myself include RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader (although gpdf works well too), the Flash plugin (running in a native Firebird, btw), and maybe some other things I ca

Thanks for the tip.. I thought about mergemaster - that amounts almost to manual editing, no? I had to edit master.passwd manually once when I was fortunate enough to get hit by the KUser bug :( I only wanted to add my user to operator group) :(

In fact, everything on my system is either part of the base or was installed via ports. This includes perl CPAN modules, which have their own entries in the ports tree.

Freshports' categories list is a great way to browse the contents of the FreeBSD ports tree.

My favorite FreeBSD ports related reference:
http://www.freshports.org/

News of new/updated ports as well as a searchable index of all ports (and you can navigate the site the same as your ports directory structure).

Also, on a somewhat related note, you know of the `cd /usr/ports && make search name=blah` or key=blah feature, right?

Happy New Year! (give or take a TimeZone...)

Yes. There are a number of port catalogue systems for FreeBSD too...

I live in Orange County, Calif. and have Cox' cable service. They have blocked outbound 25, and I contacted their sysadmins and kindly requested that it be opened for me, and explained that I needed it so that I could use my office's SMTP servers. They told me it could not be done. Physically. I explained to them that it could, and even offered to provide the IOS commands. =) Needless to say, even though I remained diplomatic throughout the experience, I couldn't get it open.

Now I run tcpsg, to forward port 24 to 25. It can be found in the FreeBSD ports collection.

Sun offers a fairly advanced compiler and, perhaps more importantly, "performance libraries" on their Sparc machines. Intel is doing the same on their machines -- Linux, FreeBSD (via port), and Windows. Will Sun do likewise with AMD or will they just help GCC in the amd64 optimization area(s)?

That's not true. While I'm not a heavy gamer, I have a number of games going on my FreeBSD system. I DO know of people playing Unreal Tournament 2003 on FreeBSD systems though. My games include: FlightGear, Abuse, Cube, Falcon's Eye, FooBillard (beautiful!), FrozenBubble, glTron, as well as SNES games through emulation. And that's just a tiny number of the 576 games currently in the ports collection.

>> It cannot be used by my grandma.

> That's true.

Says who? I could set up a FreeBSD box that my grandma could use. She couldn't admin it any better than she could a Windows system though. If something broke with Windows or FreeBSD, she'd still be calling me. So what's the diff? "Hey grandma, to send email click here, type here, then click there." The simplest user is sufficiently abstracted from the OS enough that they are the BEST candidates for alternative OSes. And if you're going to stick a total newbie with something that they're going to call you everytime they have a problem on, why not give them something that doesn't crash all the time?

> That's true. The only graphical user interfaces for FreeBSD are those based on X11--including the atrocities KDE and Gnome. These are nothing more than curiosities.

While I suppose it's true technically, I don't see it as a bad thing. In fact, when it comes to servers, it's a good thing. And when it comes to desktops, choice is a good thing. Does it really matter that one team makes the OS and one team makes the GUI? They work well together, and countless people like myself use them. Do you complain about Windows because it doesn't come with a word processor? No, and if MS tried to bundle Word w/ Windows people would cry foul. So take that to another level. Just because some people can't fathom an OS and the GUI being separate, doesn't mean it's not a good idea. I don't want a GUI on the server, and I like having choices about what window-manager or desktop-environment to run. Yes, KDE and Gnome are pretty resource-intensive. So use xfce then... it's pretty slick. I happen to like Gnome, but I've used KDE too and I'm actually running xfce4 right now just for fun.

> That's true. FreeBSD is not for people who want to buy a support contract.

Wow, that is so not true I begin to wonder if you're a troll. Did you even bother checking the website before making that claim? Or about about here?

> That's half true. You do have to compile everything; that's what the "ports" system is.

That's 100% not true. FreeBSD gives you choice. If you want to compile, you can build ports. If you want to install precompiled binaries, you install packages. Once installed, they are registered in the database (with their dependencies) the same way and are managed in the same manner. A little reading of the FreeBSD ports and packages system would be in order.

I'm hoping you're not a troll as some of your answers were correct. However some are quite wrong.

So this is why FreeBSD is 'dying'. Or maybe are you talking about this instead? .Trolls.

I got the same problem. XP SP1. The thing just crashes when I feed it the URL/download folder/name and hit OK.

Oh well. I'm sure there's free software that'll do the same.

...Ah, there we go. There's mencoder which is part of mplayer, and mmsclient. I need to boot into Linux to get some work done anyway, so I'll try one or both.

The java/jdk13 port was added to FreeBSD on Aug 27, 2001 -- according to CVS.

Now, _two_ years later, there is an _officially licensed_ binary package available. All "serious developers" could, and many did consider FreeBSD quite suitable for years... But it takes a lot of effort to get an official license to distribute the binaries. And not just the coding effort, which would be the FreeBSD people's idea of fun. It is mostly the legalese and paperwork kind of effort, which most sane people hate...

It would be a whole lot better if the ports tree was frozen together with the OS

May your wish become reality... ala kazzam, *pooof*

There ya go, now you can go to your favorite computer retail store, FreeBSD Mall, or even an absolutely free ISO, and get a RELEASE copy of FreeBSD.

Yes, just recently (several years ago) FreeBSD started putting things on CDs. These CDs include on them at no extra charge... packages! These "packages" are pretty well frozen in time, and install the exact same code on every machine that CD is used on.

later only security and bug fixes were merged into the ports

Boy, demanding fella. Well, that's exactly what happens with the FreeBSD ports! Between application releases bug fixes go into the ports tree via patches, aka diff files.

Case in point, there was a nasty layout problem with Konqueror that a KDE developer posted a patch for in the KDE bugzilla. I altered the files paths a bit and submitted to the KDE-FreeBSD project. This was then committed to the ports tree, which then produces new packages.

This process took all of 2 days. I don't honestly know if any other OS has this fix in their build process or packages. My guess is that the rest of the Unix world either needs to manually patch and compile their KDE or wait for 3.1.3a.

Bug fixes like this go into the applications in the ports tree every day, without having to wait for the originating project to release a new version. Best of all, since the FreeBSD ports utilize its own versioning scheme important changes, such as security fixes or major bugs, can flag "pkg_version" to let an admin know that there's an upgraded version to install.

there is no easy way to tell whether a package has been updated because of security issues/bugs or because the port maintainers simply feel like bumping the package version.

Port maintainers don't go willy nilly into bumping port revisions. Changes in maintanership, documentation, or other administrative issues do not warrant, nor do they get, a change in their port version.

As for an easy way to determine why a port was upgraded, a quick visit to Fresh Ports can give you the exact reason why the port was upgraded, by who, and when.

but that would be too much to ask from non-paid volunteers

No it's not really. In fact, these kinds of issues are addressed every single day in the ports tree. It may look like a tangled mess upon first glance, but I assure you it is anything but. There's over 9000 applications being maintained for the OS. Every day many are added, a few deleted, and several are updated for a variety of reasons. This tree is as alive as the free software community it reflects.

You can also go to Freshports where you can get a nice view of the cvs-commits to the ports-tree.
Have you tried contacting the maintainer for the relevant autoconf/automake port with your problems in the past ?

cheers,
Rainer

yes

Once the sources are downloaded -- and it is Sun's stupidity, that requires you to click-through the license before downloading, it is as simple as:

cd /usr/ports/java/jdk13
make
su
make install
exit

make package

pkg_add jdk-1.3.....tgz

BTW, I'm using the 1.4.1 -- it is certainly quite stable.

Once the sources are downloaded -- and it is Sun's stupidity, that requires you to click-through the license before downloading, it is as simple as:

cd /usr/ports/java/jdk13
make
su
make install
exit

make package

pkg_add jdk-1.3.....tgz

BTW, I'm using the 1.4.1 -- it is certainly quite stable.

FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.

Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.

You can download the ISO's from here:

You generally only need to download the first ISO

Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here

The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:

Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here

Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center

If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain.

The OpenSSH port for FreeBSD (under security/openssh) has been updated to 3.6 this morning. One can pull down the individual port tarball from a local FTP mirror or by using CVSup to update a local Ports collection.

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

And learn to use fucking links.

http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-blackdown-jdk 14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-ibm-jdk14/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/linux-sun-jdk14/

or you could just use the native ones
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk12/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk13/
http://www.freshports.org/java/jdk14/

they did? Are you sure? :)

Its funny to watch all the genttoo people oohh and awwwwh over all the things portage does... When FreeBSD has been there for >8 years. Its old hat.

Yes, ports is older, and has some rough spots. Its also mature and has a good deal of stability. gentoo is infantile, and they are already having trouble keeping up with changes; Look at the massive number of updates each day in freebsd, via freshports. Gentoo doesn't even come close, and they want to scale this up to something the size of the FreeBSD ports system with 4-5 times the number of applications? As for the rough spots, FreeBSD is adressing each of them, and in truely creative and powerful ways. They already checksum each file as it is installed (autogenerating the CONTENTS file), and refuse in the future to modify, delete, etc files that have been modified, therefore protecting you from customizations or packages that overwrote files). In my experience gentoo only handles A overwrites B in the specific case where it is told ahead of time by the port maintainer that this is true, and how to handle it. That's nice when you're at the size you are now; and FreeBSD could certainly do the same but it doesn't scale at the level FreeBSD operates on, and therefore they are coming up with new ways, automatic ways of handling it. I've also seen the gentoo system screw up royally and delete files its not supposed to because it didn't understand that something else had installed a package (or a different version of a package), and wind up trashing all the custom work the user did. This is very unlikely given the way the FreeBSD ports system works... by assuming if key files are there (regardless if the user chose to use package management) that the requirements are fulfilled. Then if the prereqs were installed through package management it will register the dependancies. This gives users and administrators the best of both worlds. Using ports when it gives them what they need, and letting the admin/user do it themselves when it doesn't. Give gentoo's limitations they really need this.

The Linux version will run under FreeBSD but both the Linux and FreeBSD versions require hardware graphics acceleration. The only supported graphics acceleration is 3dfx though others may work.

The Linux version will run under FreeBSD but both the Linux and FreeBSD versions require hardware graphics acceleration. The only supported graphics acceleration is 3dfx though others may work.

i run a FreeBSD shop. i check out FreshPorts.org and there is nothing about SAP-DB to be found. there is MySQL and PostgreSQL a-plenty, though.

freshmeat.net has TWO projects listed: SAP Database and SAP DB. both link back to sapdb.org.

Someone was asking up above what the point was. Aside from learning from reading yet more code, this is as close as we can get to original Unix. If I was given the chance to check out the original manuscript for, say, the Revelation of St. John (I'm atheist, but religion fascinates me), I'd jump at the chance to see what changes have been made between the original and what we've got now. You'd learn an awful lot about how things have changed -- not just the book itself but everything else. I think that would apply with Unix just as much.

Couple things: buckrogers, I downloaded the source for the PDP-11 version a year or so ago. The original tarball has been lost in the mists of hd upgrades, but I do remember not being able to correlate Lions' code sections with the source I downloaded. Has your experience been any different?

And another thing: I'm sure I went picked up the code -- just the code -- for the PDP-11 version, way back when. Now, though, I can't seem to find it on their site. I thought I checked through the directories pretty thoroughly -- can anyone tell me where it is, or provide a link to their own copy?

Now, of course, I've got to check out the PDP-11 simulator. (I'm sure I heard about one that was written in Java, but when I did a search on Google it seemed like every damn CS student in the world has built one as a class project...someone else'll have to provide the link.)

Since the linux people discussing on this forum are *BSD ignorant",
and the BSD people only say how great it is, and not WHAT it is.

I'll try to explain how Darwin & Free/Net/OpenBSD handle their packages/ports.

What are packages? [on a BSD system]
BSD machines have a database of installed packages
it resides in /var/db/pkg and includes several items of information
for each package :
Let's take zip-2.3 for example.

--[ cut here ]--
>ls /var/db/pkg/zip-2.3
+COMMENT +CONTENTS +DESC

>cat \+COMMENT
Create/update ZIP files compatible with pkzip

>cat \+DESC
Zip is a compression and file packaging utility. It is compatible with
PKZIP 2.04g (Phil Katz ZIP) for MSDOS systems. There is a companion to zip
called unzip (of course) which you can also install from the ports/package
system.

>cat +CONTENTS
@comment PKG_FORMAT_REVISION:1.1
@name zip-2.3
@cwd /usr/local
@comment ORIGIN:archivers/zip
man/man1/zip.1.gz
@comment MD5:eb512a4327cef91f4c5cd971dca0e534
bin/zip
@comment MD5:02da2a2388309f488724a3350a9ce9ce
bin/zipcloak
@comment MD5:d18f0d9ddd9ddacc0b0d4063fd3def40
bin/zipnote
@comment MD5:50ccc4fb0e4a33f57ede001867ebcaad
bin/zipsplit
@comment MD5:3d6696890b4313fcf1d056fade63fcd7
@unexec if [ -f %D/info/dir ]; then if sed -e '1,/Menu:/d' %D/info/dir | grep -q '^[*] '; then true; else rm %D/info/dir; fi; fi
--[ cut here ]--

What is this?
The +CONTENTS file includes a listing of all the files that
this package installed (with MD5 c/s) and commands to execute
when removing it, like removing the directories it created.

It is known that linux software writers provide with rpms, but not with FreeBSD packages.

So where do FreeBSD packages come from?

FreeBSD packages come from the ports which come from contributors, bug reporters, developers,
ports is a collection of Makefiles and patches that gets updated with CVS and with 'send-pr'
a *BSD user can send his own BSDification of software to *bsd developers for them to cvs checkin.

In the core of the ports collection there is a system of makefiles that makes it possible
to write a simple very Makefile that will do all this :
1. download the sources from known or unknown mirrors
2. extract [after checking MD5 with the source file, the sources reside in /usr/ports/distfiles]
3. patch for the specific *BSD [Darwin != OpenBSD]
4. configure [just run the configure script]
5. make [will use gnumake if the package requires it too]
6. install [add the package to the /var/db/pkg database and all the files in /usr/local or /usr/X11R6]
7. package

the mentioned 7th step [package] will create a BSD package for the port, put it in
/usr/ports/packages/category/foobar-0.0.tgz
and will link the /usr/ports/packages/All/foobar.tgz to that file with the latest version.

This is what most users don't do, and what BSD mirror sites do.
The All/file.tgz makes it possible to install the latest version of the package from the ftp,
afaik this is very similar to apt-get.
On FreeBSD one would use
> pkg_add -f foobar
And will get the latest available version on the mirror,
(you can set the mirror to something closer to home if you need).

So, basicly, just typing

> cd /usr/ports/category/foobar && make && make install && make clean
or even
> cd /usr/ports/category && make install clean

Will build, and install - with all the little tweaks needed for it to run best on the BSD system.
[like all the bsd junkies have told you]

MOST IMPORTANT:
It will also install all needed dependencies that this app can't work without if they are not on
the system already.

For some basic understanding of how people make BSD ports and how to contribute
I suggest reading the porters handbook of FreeBSD which lays it out really nicely and easily.
It's shirt and simple - so take 5 minutes of your wasted time and read it.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/p orters-handbook/

The installed ports (which are now called packages) get into the /var/db/pkg database.

What is a package? [again]
It is just a precompiled port that someone else compiled for you.
There is a machine on the FreeBSD site that compiles newer ports all the time
the compiled versions get into the packages mirror, which is part of the BSD mirror.

And to summarize a few additional features :
- ports update with CVS [you always get the latest version]
- ports compile on freebsd without problems - no newbie compilation questions
- packages are the same as ports
- all bsd users contribute to ports via bug-reports ['send-pr']
you can see the "bug-reports" HERE

What tools are available for handling the database?

The basic ones that come with bsd are these :
pkg_add
pkg_deinstall
pkg_version
pkg_delete
pkg_info

Recently there have been a VERY powerfull addition to how ports are managed on BSD.
It's called 'portupgrade'.

This new portupgrade tool lets you keep track of dependencies better than what
the core package handlers and ports collection has.

The most noted extra ability that makes it so powerful,
is that it considers dependencies version specific.
Before this utility, if package A-0.1 needed package B-0.1
it installs it, because it's a dependency.
Then when package A-0.2 comes out and there is package B-0.3 available,
then when installing package A or making the port - it would
not install the dependency port B, because B-0.1 is already installed.
portsupgrades changes that, it will install a package and the latest
versions of all it's dependencies before it installs the package itself.

Second valuable thing that it will do is remove the package before it installs
a new version of it. In the past when you installed a higher version
of something - the files of the old package that no longer participate
were forgotten, and became junk - this is because the /var/db/pkg is
rewritten with new package information, but the files were not removed.
With portsupgrade it doesn't happen, portupgrade prepares the new package
to be installed, then it removes the old version before installing the new.

Another valuable resource for FreeBSD porters is http://www.freshports.org/
It keeps track of new versions of ports added to the CVS port collection,
and lists it. So you know when your latest version of foobar is written as
a port (which usually takes just a day or two after it was released).
Maybe the linux developers will read the porters handbook that i've mentioned,
and be more comformative with the BSD community.

This is enough information to get you going.

More info can be read at :
http://www.freebsd.org/ports/
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/h andbook/ports-using.html
#FreeBSD and #FreeBSDhelp on EFnet

Since the linux people discussing on this forum are *BSD ignorant",
and the BSD people only say how great it is, and not WHAT it is.

I'll try to explain how Darwin & Free/Net/OpenBSD handle their packages/ports.

What are packages? [on a BSD system]
BSD machines have a database of installed packages
it resides in /var/db/pkg and includes several items of information
for each package :
Let's take zip-2.3 for example.

--[ cut here ]--
>ls /var/db/pkg/zip-2.3
+COMMENT +CONTENTS +DESC

>cat \+COMMENT
Create/update ZIP files compatible with pkzip

>cat \+DESC
Zip is a compression and file packaging utility. It is compatible with
PKZIP 2.04g (Phil Katz ZIP) for MSDOS systems. There is a companion to zip
called unzip (of course) which you can also install from the ports/package
system.

>cat +CONTENTS
@comment PKG_FORMAT_REVISION:1.1
@name zip-2.3
@cwd /usr/local
@comment ORIGIN:archivers/zip
man/man1/zip.1.gz
@comment MD5:eb512a4327cef91f4c5cd971dca0e534
bin/zip
@comment MD5:02da2a2388309f488724a3350a9ce9ce
bin/zipcloak
@comment MD5:d18f0d9ddd9ddacc0b0d4063fd3def40
bin/zipnote
@comment MD5:50ccc4fb0e4a33f57ede001867ebcaad
bin/zipsplit
@comment MD5:3d6696890b4313fcf1d056fade63fcd7
@unexec if [ -f %D/info/dir ]; then if sed -e '1,/Menu:/d' %D/info/dir | grep -q '^[*] '; then true; else rm %D/info/dir; fi; fi
--[ cut here ]--

What is this?
The +CONTENTS file includes a listing of all the files that
this package installed (with MD5 c/s) and commands to execute
when removing it, like removing the directories it created.

It is known that linux software writers provide with rpms, but not with FreeBSD packages.

So where do FreeBSD packages come from?

FreeBSD packages come from the ports which come from contributors, bug reporters, developers,
ports is a collection of Makefiles and patches that gets updated with CVS and with 'send-pr'
a *BSD user can send his own BSDification of software to *bsd developers for them to cvs checkin.

In the core of the ports collection there is a system of makefiles that makes it possible
to write a simple very Makefile that will do all this :
1. download the sources from known or unknown mirrors
2. extract [after checking MD5 with the source file, the sources reside in /usr/ports/distfiles]
3. patch for the specific *BSD [Darwin != OpenBSD]
4. configure [just run the configure script]
5. make [will use gnumake if the package requires it too]
6. install [add the package to the /var/db/pkg database and all the files in /usr/local or /usr/X11R6]
7. package

the mentioned 7th step [package] will create a BSD package for the port, put it in /usr/ports/packages/category/foobar-0.0.tgz
and will link the /usr/ports/packages/All/foobar.tgz to that file with the latest version.

This is what most users don't do, and what BSD mirror sites do.
The All/file.tgz makes it possible to install the latest version of the package from the ftp,
afaik this is very similar to apt-get.
On FreeBSD one would use
> pkg_add -f foobar
And will get the latest available version on the mirror,
(you can set the mirror to something closer to home if you need).

So, basicly, just typing

> cd /usr/ports/category/foobar && make && make install && make clean
or even
> cd /usr/ports/category && make install clean

Will build, and install - with all the little tweaks needed for it to run best on the BSD system.
[like all the bsd junkies have told you]

MOST IMPORTANT:
It will also install all needed dependencies that this app can't work without if they are not on
the system already.

For some basic understanding of how people make BSD ports and how to contribute
I suggest reading the porters handbook of FreeBSD which lays it out really nicely and easily.
It's shirt and simple - so take 5 minutes of your wasted time and read it.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/p orters-handbook/

The installed ports (which are now called packages) get into the /var/db/pkg database.

What is a package? [again]
It is just a precompiled port that someone else compiled for you.
There is a machine on the FreeBSD site that compiles newer ports all the time
the compiled versions get into the packages mirror, which is part of the BSD mirror.

And to summarize a few additional features :
- ports update with CVS [you always get the latest version]
- ports compile on freebsd without problems - no newbie compilation questions
- packages are the same as ports
- all bsd users contribute to ports via bug-reports ['send-pr']
you can see the "bug-reports" HERE

What tools are available for handling the database?

The basic ones that come with bsd are these :
pkg_add
pkg_deinstall
pkg_version
pkg_delete
pkg_info

Recently there have been a VERY powerfull addition to how ports are managed on BSD.
It's called 'portupgrade'.

This new portupgrade tool lets you keep track of dependencies better than what
the core package handlers and ports collection has.

The most noted extra ability that makes it so powerful,
is that it considers dependencies version specific.
Before this utility, if package A-0.1 needed package B-0.1
it installs it, because it's a dependency.
Then when package A-0.2 comes out and there is package B-0.3 available,
then when installing package A or making the port - it would
not install the dependency port B, because B-0.1 is already installed.
portsupgrades changes that, it will install a package and the latest
versions of all it's dependencies before it installs the package itself.

Second valuable thing that it will do is remove the package before it installs
a new version of it. In the past when you installed a higher version
of something - the files of the old package that no longer participate
were forgotten, and became junk - this is because the /var/db/pkg is
rewritten with new package information, but the files were not removed.
With portsupgrade it doesn't happen, portupgrade prepares the new package
to be installed, then it removes the old version before installing the new.

Another valuable resource for FreeBSD porters is http://www.freshports.org/
It keeps track of new versions of ports added to the CVS port collection,
and lists it. So you know when your latest version of foobar is written as
a port (which usually takes just a day or two after it was released).
Maybe the linux developers will read the porters handbook that i've mentioned,
and be more comformative with the BSD community.

This is enough information to get you going.
More info can be read at :
http://www.freebsd.org/ports/

It has no problems with dependencies, because anything needed is download right then and compiled from source. It also can uninstall.

And here is the shocker... FreshPorts.

Too bad its all under BSD liscence.. cus now M$ can use all of FreeBSD's port system in Windows XP 2005+ Profestional

Please don't construe any of this to mean that I find SourceForge itself to be useful. I completely fail to see why projects would rush to a site like SourceForge, other than for the advertising. A central site for release information like FRESHports, coupled with per-project home pages, seems much simpler to me.

It usually takes a week or so but....

but go check freshports - it's in the ports collection now. along with koffice-rc1. very cool.

my modem will be busy today :)

outdated? what the hell are you talking about 90% of the port tree (found here) is more up to date than freshmeat is , there is more ports in the port tree than debian has packages. about 4500 ports.

What are you talking about? both Lynx and Links work just fine for me.
--