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A really efficient mixed system would be a socialist political system

How wrong can a person be? Socialism is an economic system of state ownership of industry and the political system advocating such an economic system.

Privatization of common goods such as water and health care is a recipe for disaster.

Partially wrong, yes water is a common good but health care and medicine are not. They may be good for the public but they are not common goods. As for privatized medicine being a disaster? HAHA! Take one example, LASIK Surgery. About 10 years ago, in 1999 when this surgery started, LASIK surgery on 1 eye cost about $10,000 but today a good surgeon will perform it for $2000. Prices of $1000 or less can be found too, but I wouldn't trust one without some good and credible references first.

What you have in the US is not a mixed system, it is a corrupted capitalist system.

No, what we have in the US is a mixed system, it's corrupted but it's also mixed. I know, I'm in that system. Because I was disabled in an accident I now collect Social Security Income, a government insurance program. When I worked I had no choice but to pay into Social Security, employers deduct it then give the government the money. Because I am disabled my health insurance is Medicare, another government insurance program. And like Social Security I had no choice but to pay into it, like SS employers deduct money from employees' pay and gives it to the government. Even now I pay into Medicare, again the government deducts some of my SSI as a premium for Medicare.

And don't try to tell me that that is not socialized medicine. If it were capitalist then it would be in private hands.

Now for when I had the accident which caused my disability. At the tyme I was a college student and I was riding my bike after class when I was hit by someone who should not have been driving. After the accident I was medivaced by helicopter to the hospital. After I came out of the coma I was in I was transferred to a rehab house, I survived a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. There I went through several weeks of therapy before I was allowed to move into my mother's house. While living with her I went through more therapy. Altogether my medical bills came to more than $120,000. As a student and not working I didn't have insurance and I was not wealthy, but I got all that medical care anyway.

So even those who can not afford medical care still get it in the US. Either government pays or the costs are passed on to those who can afford it or to insurance. Most Americans aren't willing to have someone die just because the person can't pay for medical care. For proof look at 2 examples, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, started in 1962 by the actor and comedian Danny Thomas. Thinking "no child should die in the dawn of life" he started the hospital which treats children from around the world without asking parents to pay. Then the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, Shriners for short, operates the Shriners Hos

Do they, and technology in general, make us lazy or stupid? Or do they help us?

I think they can and do both. Being a TBI or Traumatic Brain Injury survivor I have spent years learning how to use compensatory strategies for my weaknesses. One of them is my memory so for instance when I cook, even if I only spend a few minutes to boil water for tea, I use a windup timer. When the alarm goes off I know to check the water or food. I do the same for my laundry. Or planning, I use a notebook planner to write appointments and to-do lists. However I sometimes fail to check the planner so when I can I use the built-in calendar/planner on my cellphone. When I make an appointment with my doc I'll write it in my planner and program my cellphone at the same tyme. The personal care coordinator I see at my doc's office tried to get me to use the calendar/planner software my Mac came with, iCal, but I find the cellphone better.

Falcon

I must have Soviet brain, for thoughts entertain my brain!

Frontal Lobes
Located, right under the forehead (anterior) the frontal lobes are involved in tracking and sense of self.
Additionally, they're involved in arousal and initiations well as consciousness of environment reaction to self and environment.
Executive functioning and judgments.
Emotional response and stability.
Language usage.
Personality.
Word associations and meaning.
Memory for habits motor activity.

So it looks like there could be some interesting overlap...

(and personally, I'm OK with that being tomorrow), smoke is part of the "ambient air"

Until the day comes when driving vehicles is banned accidents causing injuries including disabilities and deaths will be a part of life. I smoke and I am willing to pay more for health insurance because of that but I am not willing to pay because I ride a bike and have been hit by vehicles as well as have breathed their exhaust. And yes, I am one of those who was disabled after being hit while riding my bike, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. And yes survived, while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Well if I could I'd argue with those docs, they were wrong. Instead of it being a miracle my life has been a living hell.

Falcon

single national insurance market will do exactly what state markets have done: boil down to 2-3 players.

And where did I say a single insurance market? A actually part of the bill is that market, which is not free. What I did say is that I should be able to drive across a state line and buy insurance. There are 50 states with more state lines. My state has borders with more than 2 other states.

And *then*, one day, something big hits. Bad auto accident? Cancer? MS? Doesn't matter, but it requires a lot of care. Not just in one instance, over months. Maybe years. Maybe the rest of your life. And all of the sudden, you are suddenly a very different prospect than you were to the insurance company the day before. From here on out, you're a liability that has to be managed in some way.

And we don't have that now? We most certainly do. I am one of those you describe above. More than 10 years ago I was hit while riding my bike and I survived a disability, specifically a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. After that I was refused insurance coverage. The only reason I have insurance now, after years of not having any, is because I am on Medicare.

maybe the insurance company isn't very cooperative: every claim gets challenged, some they may relent on, but some they find an excuse and won't budge.

Ever hear of courts and lawsuits? How about corporate charter revocation? All can be used to reign in corporations, if they are not reigned in it's only because voters let then get away with it.

In a free market, here's what you'll do: nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Oh really? What did you use to make your post? Without competition you wouldn't have such a powerful computer that you're using. Competition brought it to you. Why is it so hard to believe competition can't do the same with health care and insurance? Because it doesn't fit into the socialist ideology?

The rest continued the drivel.

Falcon

I hate how 'vengeance' has become a dirty word; and yet if you have been the victim of a crime, surely it is a basic human need.

No it isn't a basic human need. Because of an accident, that was not an accident, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury. I was hit by a moving van while riding my own bike after my classes in college. Witnesses said the driver was weaving all over the road and it was only a matter of tyme before he hit someone. While I wanted him to pay I do not wish the hell that my life became on him. I am not that sadistic.

And what if the person who you took your vengeance on was innocent, should he or she exercise the same vengeance on you? If the person's dead oops, it's too late. All that leads to is might makes right.

Falcon

All that's needed is a racing-style flexible bladder inside that prevents fuel from spilling when the hard outer shell is breached

Like the roads are full with cars that have fuel cells. I must of missed that.

It's much more important than curtain airbags or fucking OnStar.

Have you ever seen mangled bodies in car accidents? Or have you never tried to tell an emergency operator where you're at in an accident? Personally I don't like OnStar, because of the possibility to use it for tracking, but they have saved lives, as have seatbelts and airbags.

It really pisses me off when I hear of someone burning to death in a car accident.

Same here, to me the worst way to die is to burn to death. And one of the most painful way to live is by surviving a bad burn, another is surviving a Traumatic Brain Injury. Because of the pain from the little I've been burned, I'd never ever want to be seriously burned. And surviving one would probably be the most effective way to get me to kill myself.

Falcon

Seriously, if this has no benefits towards a cancer cure, I don't care...
Because it looks like a promising step towards helping auto-immune disorders.

Cancer either kills you, or you live...
auto-immune, you live, and suffer, and live, and suffer, and live (goddamn it).

You should care if this is good for auto-immune disorders. If it cures them you wouldn't have to live with eczema, unlike me. Unless a breakthrough in neurogenesis happens there is no cure and little therapy to treat my injury, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury. And I do mean survived, while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Well I did live, but if I could I'd argue with those docs because my life has been a living hell since.

Then again rereading your post there could be another meaning to it. You may not care whether it cures cancer or not so long as it cures auto-immune diseases.

Falcon

I, for one, look forward to welcoming our bio-nano-tech overlords

I doubt it will happen in my lifetime but I'd like to see when either nanotechnology or Neurogenesis can repair damaged brains. I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, and I'd be in line as a test subject.

Either that, or be in line to transplant one of Marvin's brains.

Falcon

here in michigan it's a law.

Helmets are mandatory in Florida, where I used to live, too. But I live in Minnesota now and they are not required here.

Plus comfort level is higher in a helmet. A full face helmet with visor closed at 70mph is way WAY better than no helmet.

I prefer wind in my hair and as for safety I'd rather die than be saved, if I were saved, by a helmet. Riding my bike I already survived a head injury, specifically a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. I was not wearing a helmet however it not have done me any good if I had. My head was not hit, instead my injury was caused by the sudden shaking of my brain, much as Shaken Baby Syndrome injures or kills infants. And you could say I almost did die, while in a coma the docs told my family bit would be a miracle if I lived. Since then the docs and therapists I've seen also said it was. However I totally disagree, I wish I had died even today almost 13 years later.

Falcon

for those people who are at empty stage of their lives, and might turn to a drug, the point is to keep them away from drugs, and allow them to get back to a full life again. but if you introduce drugs into the situation, you turn what might otherwise be a temporary bit of helplessness into a life-destorying chemical dependency

Your title is right, all you have to do is devalue your life. I used to be one of those people who had to keep in control of their lives. Though I grew up with drug users, most were causal users though there were some who were alcoholics, I rarely ever used them myself. And only alcohol and the occasional joint. However after surviving an injury, a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI, I now wish I could get high. If I have to live. However I wish I had died, my sister even told me that after I came out of the coma I was in I was screaming at everyone to let me die.

it is a symptom of people who have given up in some way. they need society to keep drugs away from them in the first place:

Why should people be stopped if they are not harming others? Laws that make alleviating suffering illegal are sadistic.

Falcon

Looks like *someone* is doing their math with an old Pentium.

Unfortunately my brain has been damaged so it throws arithmetic errs such as those old Pentiums Intel didn't acknowledge at first that had a problem. Unfortunately I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury. Yes survived, while I was in a coma the docs told my family it's be a miracle if I lived. If I could I've argue with them about that. I'm trying but I'm not successful much.

Falcon

almost surreally safe (cyclist deaths are almost always due to cars, not bikes

Because of those cars bike riding isn't that save in places. In less than a year I was hit 3 tymes while riding my bike. The first tyme I was knocked unconscious, luckily there wasn't any real damage. The second tyme I was uninjured but my front wheel was bent and had to be replaced. The third tyme I was hit I was put into a coma. I spent about a month in the hospital then because I was disabled, I survived a TBI or Traumatic Brain Injury, I had to move into a rehab house where I lived another month and a half. After that I went through more than a year of therapy. I still need more therapy but I can't afford it.

Back then, when I had the accident, a friend also rode her bike and she started to carry a baseball bat because she had been attacked while riding. Luckily she wasn't raped or anything, mostly she had stuff thrown at her by passing cars.

Falcon

Respectfully, I guess that I never quite understood that. Outside the context of the supernatural, how is behavior either good or bad? Why isn't it just homo sapiens behavior, like it would be in any other species?

We all have our own ideas of what's good or bad.

That behavior is either good or bad implies that we have a choice in our behavior (i.e. free will).

To a certain extent we all have free will, though not all of us can control our behavior all the tyme. I used to be easy going and didn't get angry, mad, or self defensive much. But now I know I can't always control myself. More than 10 years ago I survived a TBI or Traumatic Brain Injury and lost some abilities because of it. And I do mean "survived", while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. I disagree with those docs but that's something else.

Falcon

My proposal is that the USA should cut off free trade with nations that adopt mercantile policies

How are you using mercantile?

We shouldn't be begging the Chinese for a loan.

What "we"? If you mean the government, a good economic system may mean government spending more than it brings in taxes. And governments are frequently borrowing from each other.

Rather, they should be spending those dollars for their people.

The Chinese people are benefiting from trade. Up until the recession the average Chinese was seeing an improved living standard. A Chinese from a rural village could move to a big city and work saving their money. After a few year they could have enough saved to move back to the village and start their own business. While many people in the US would say the Chinese lived and worked in slave labor conditions, the same is true about US labor, especially in the past. My own family is a good example, my background is low income. Our mother, I have two sisters, taught us while we were growing up we could be almost anything we wanted to be as long as we were willing to work for it. Neither of our parents went to college, my dad enlisted in the US Air Force and retired from it while my mother worked her way through a 2 year technical school, while raising my sisters and I, to become a lab assistant in a hospital. All three of us went to college. My older sister became a nurse and my younger sister got her Masters in Taxation and now runs her own accounting business. Me, I started college with a major in Computer Engineering. Unfortunately that ended when I was hit while riding my bike after my classes one day. The accident, ha ha it was no accident as the driver who hit me caused other accidents because he didn't take care of his diabetes, left me with a disability which unless a break through in neurology happens before I die will be permanent. I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. And I do mean survived, while in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. It was no miracle, but something else entirely.

On the other hand, I would like to see trade expanded between the USA, Canada, and the European Union

If I recall right, one of the problems with TBIs is poor memory, Canada is the US's biggest trading partner. And Mexico is near the top as well.

Falcon

You can straighten up a lot faster from being stoned than being drunk but I honestly think your fooling yourself if you think your driving skills are as good as when you are sober.

Oh, I don't believe someone stoned can drive as well as when they're sober but they can drive better than if they're drunk. To tell the truth I don't think anyone impaired by whatever method should drive, whether that be by being drunk, stoned, or by not taking care of their diabetes. I specifically say diabetes because I was hit while riding my bike by a diabetic. I was in college and was riding my bike after class when someone who was weaving all over the road hit me. I now have a permanent disability, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. Witnesses to the accident had to chase down and force the driver to stop. It's said he was a diabetic and had a diabetic seizer while driving. The thing is is that he had caused accidents before he hit me for the same reason, he didn't take care of his diabetes. He moved from one state to mine because the state he moved from issued a warrant for his arrest.

Notice that while I am pro-legalization and do not believe in victim-less crimes, whether it be drinking, using drugs, or prostitution, I do believe as I've said a number of tymes people should be held accountable. In legal drugs I said "You cause an accident drunk or stoned and you pay, same with any other harm." It comes down to personal responsibility.

Falcon

If people knew the torture of living with schizophrenia then they wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "let's-all-smoke-cannabis-and-have-an-awesome-time" band-wagon.

First off I want the choice to do whatever I want to to my own body as long as I do not harm others.

Now, do you suffer from memory problems? Because I survived a Traumnatic Brain Injury, TBI, I do have problems with my memory. And I would like to have the choice to use a drug that may help me.

Falcon

There was a study that suggested that Cannabinoids increases neurogenesis (growth of new brain cells) by up to 40%.

Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that article before. I am interested in and have done some research into neurogenesis because I am a surviver of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI.

Falcon

I don't particularly like some of the lawsuits I've seen myself but I would not change the system to make it harder to sue. I was involved in a civil lawsuit myself, as the plaintiff. I didn't hire the attorneys or file the lawsuit. I was in a coma when my family hired an attorney. See, as a college student after my classes one day I was hit by a moving van while riding my bike. Not counting the tyme I spent in therapy, I was in therapy for more than year when I had to quit because I couldn't afford it, my medical bills came to more than $120,000. Now if my family couldn't have filed the lawsuit we would have been stuck paying. And I now have a permanent disability, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. In college I was a Computer Engineering major but I can no longer do that, or pretty much any other type of fulltime employment. As the page linked to above says, "Memory mood and fatigue are common complaints of brain injury patients."

Falcon

It's not only more time efficient, but also more fuel efficient to drive at times other than rush our. Rush hour traffic tends to involve more acceleration and deceleration.

I don't recall who did it but I think the "Economist" published an article on a study on the efficiency of traveling between Washington DC and NYC, it studied flying, driving a car, taking a bus, and taking a train. The most fuel efficient mode was train whereas flying used the most fuel per passenger mile. I don't recall for sure but I think taking the bus was more efficient than driving.

I was driving home (downstate IL) from a Chicago suburb when I was rear-ended in stop and go rush hour traffic on an Interstate highway. The accident totaled my car, sent me to the emergency room, cost me two days of lost work, left me in pain for months

Sorry about your accident. Almost 10 years ago I had a bad accident myself though I was riding my bike not driving. I was in college at the tyme, without health insurance, and was riding my bike after classes. I don't recall how long but I was in a coma for some days. While in the coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Well, I lived but I would argue with those docs about it being a miracle. Instead my life has been more of a living hell. Anyway, I was in the hospital a few weeks then moved into a rehabilitation, rehab, house where I lived for about a month. I now have a permanent disability, a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI and all together I spent more than a year in therapy.

and stuck me with an insurance deductible because the deadbeat had no insurance of his own.

My family was lucky, financially. My medical bills were over $120,000. However the person who hit me was at fault. Witnesses to the accident said the driver was weaving all over the road. And witnesses had to chance him down and force him to stop. He was working while driving his employer's vehicle, it was a moving van like Apartment Movers. It came out later he was a diabetic and they say he had a diabetic seizer. Never having heard of diabetic seizers I asked a friend in college who's an insulin dependent diabetic, she was born with it, about seizers. She said it's not seizers they have but they can pass out and lose consciousness. Anyway the driver had a history of causing accidents and had been admitted to hospitals because he didn't take care of his diabetes. He also fled the state he lived in and moved to mine because his state issued a warrant for his arrest.

So because of the driver's record his employer decided to settle after my family hired a lawyer. And the medical bills were paid for out of the settlement.

Falcon

To be clear, I mean that people who are unhappy with their situation should take control of their lives and steer their way out of it, not tumble about as the wind blows around them and complain about how much their life sucks.

I agree with everything else you say, but have a problem with the above. Some people are unable to control their own life. Because I'm a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, life itself is a struggle for me. Many of those coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq will also find what a struggle their life is too. Of course they went into the military on their own, but will still struggle. Me, I was injured while riding my bike after my classes in college. I was trying to improve my life, just as they wanted to protect the US, now I'm worse than if I hadn't gone.

Part of your responsibility is to care for your children. They cannot care for themselves. If you do not care for them, the state will take them away, and most of your loved ones will probably turn against you.

You can only give them the best chances by taking care of your children. It reminds me of something Sidney Poitier's character in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" tells his dad that if he ever has children his duty will be to give them the best chance they have.

But as far as giving them the "best chance" possible? Best chance for *what?* Entering the next couple of higher rungs on the social/economic status ladder? Winning a Nobel prize? Reproducing?

The best chances of them doing what they want to do or be what they want to be, the best chance to have a happy life.

We are so *not* at risk as individuals in developed countries of dying of hunger and exposure, but we still have a lot of the language that suggests that we are.

Our society may, and to a degree is that way, but not all individuals are like that. I grew up "in the woods" so to speak. I could and did go into the woods and knew how to find food and water and how to make a shelter. Any kids I have I want to be able to do the same thing. I love to garden, actually I have about 2 weeks until our last frost date here and have been preparing my garden, and I want my kids to be able to garden as well. When my produce is ready I plan to can most of what I've grown.

When I think of the interesting, courageous, successful and self-confident people I know, they report childhoods filled not with sacrifice, resentment and martyrdom, but with optimism, curiosity, life-long learning, travel, change, even risk (including periods of real poverty.)

That basically describes how I was brought up. My family was poor but mom taught us we could be almost anything we wanted as long as we worked at it. I have two sisters and though our parents didn't go to college my sisters and I did. My older sister's a nurse. My younger sister got her Master and now runs her own business. Unfortunately for me, while in college majoring in Computer Engineering I had an accident that ended that. I survived, and I mean "survived" because I wasn't expected to live, a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. While in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I did live.

Force is not the only harm worth considering in society - starvation, bankruptcy, financial ruin, these are all real too, and ruin lives in a much more concrete way than someone being asked to pay taxes.

More than most, although there are a number of others coming back from Iraq learning it too, I know all too well about having your life ruined. I know because my life has been ruined, I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. The docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived, my sister told me after I came out of the coma I screamed at everyone to let me die and I wish they had.

While the first two paragraphs leave something to be desired I thought how he used the rest of it to explain things fulfilled the desire.

Like him, as an introvert, it takes me some tyme to compose a message or reply. As a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, survivor I used to blame my slowness on the injury. However now I'm thinking my slowness is a combination of both.

Speaking as someone with crap memory as a result of a head injury, I wouldn't risk it.

As someone also with crappy memory due to a head injury, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI, I'd be willing to take part in a study to investigate whether something like this would help me.

fortunately most of the effects in my case were temporary, but I still have problems.

Unfortunately unless there's a breakthrough more than likely in my case it's permanent.

When tinkering with the brain, unintended consequences can be severe, and nobody seems to really give a crap about those unintended consequences except for the person who has to deal with them.

I look at it the oppose to you, because of people like you people like me are being prevented from seeing possible breakthroughs in neurology, oh and cancer treatment.

Leave well enough alone is usually the best motto when it comes to the noggin, unless your life and disability is too intolerable so you're willing to take any chance.

Not only is my life so intolerable I'd be willing to take a change, but I'd leap at such a chance. If I weren't so chickenshit I'd have ended my suffering years ago.

Never wish that, mate - my stepson is spastic, quadraplegic, autistic and has severe learning disabilities, but he takes pleasure from whatever he can do, and gives hope and inspiration to all who encounter him with an open mind.

I tried to keep a positive attitude but eventually it wore out. When I had the accident I was in college majoring in Computer Engineering, however the accident ended that. I was riding my bike after classes when a moving van hit me which put me in a coma. Though I don't recall it at all my sister told me after I came out of the coma I screamed at everyone to let me die. Instead I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. So now I have a learning disability myself. While in rehab, when I left the hospital I had to move into a rehabilitation house, I tried to do some simple exercises in calculus and physics, some problems a first semester calc and physics student should of been able to do. However I couldn't solve them. It was then I realized I would of had to repeat many of the classes I had already taken, if I still wanted to get my degree in CE. Unfortunately though my memory is bad now because of the TBI, memory is 1 in a list of more than 2 dozen Persistent Intellectual Impairments. Even after spending more than a year in therapy learning coping and compensatory techniques I still have a big problem with my memory. Some things I will retain however other things I won't recall 5 minutes later.

And the thing is is I use to help and work with disabled or handicapped people. I even learned American Sign Language, ASL, so I could talk to hearing impaired students. I loved being able to help others but hate being the way I am now. Also when I had the accident I rode my bike 200 miles a week, but in the more than 10 years since then I doubt I've ridden more than 500 miles, I sometimes wish I had been paralyzed instead of having my brain damaged.

Never wish that, mate - my stepson is spastic, quadraplegic, autistic and has severe learning disabilities, but he takes pleasure from whatever he can do, and gives hope and inspiration to all who encounter him with an open mind.

I tried to keep a positive attitude but eventually it wore out. When I had the accident I was in college majoring in Computer Engineering, however the accident ended that. I was riding my bike after classes when a moving van hit me which put me in a coma. Though I don't recall it at all my sister told me after I came out of the coma I screamed at everyone to let me die. Instead I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. So now I have a learning disability myself. While in rehab, when I left the hospital I had to move into a rehabilitation house, I tried to do some simple exercises in calculus and physics, some problems a first semester calc and physics student should of been able to do. However I couldn't solve them. It was then I realized I would of had to repeat many of the classes I had already taken, if I still wanted to get my degree in CE. Unfortunately though my memory is bad now because of the TBI, memory is 1 in a list of more than 2 dozen Persistent Intellectual Impairments. Even after spending more than a year in therapy learning coping and compensatory techniques I still have a big problem with my memory. Some things I will retain however other things I won't recall 5 minutes later.

And the thing is is I use to help and work with disabled or handicapped people. I even learned American Sign Language, ASL, so I could talk to hearing impaired students. I loved being able to help others but hate being the way I am now. Also when I had the accident I rode my bike 200 miles a week, but in the more than 10 years since then I doubt I've ridden more than 500 miles, I sometimes wish I had been paralyzed instead of having my brain damaged.

Look at the US. Look at the reduction in status and opportunity for most of the middle classes, compared with the 50s and 60s.

In the late 50s my father bought his first house on one and a half times his salary.

Opportunity is still there to be had in the USA for many people. My sisters and I come from the low income class. My older sister is a nurse and now is part of the middle class. My younger sister is a CPA and along with friends runs her own accounting business. She also owns a few rental properties. Though I'm not sure I think she's high income now. They both got that way via hard work and it's possible for most people to do the same if they work hard.

Now, I said "most people", it doesn't work out for everyone one matter how hard they work. Like me, like my sisters I went to college too, majoring in Computer Engineering. We were the first generation in our family to go to college. However while I was attending college I suffered a serious accident. One day after my classes I was riding my bike when a moving van hit me. I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, which ended my dream of being a Computer Engineer. If it weren't the accident I'd be one now.

In those days there were few gadgets, but look at those gadgets now. They are basically small and cheap ways of delivering cheap content at high prices; iPods, mobile phones.

That's not the fault of capitalism, it is totally caused by consumerism.

I had a discussion concerning helmet laws and motorcycles with a relative in Canada once. He pointed out the fact that society as a whole pays the cost of patching up and possibly supporting an injured motorcycle rider through the health care system and thus by society as a whole.

That may be true in Canada and other nations with socialized healthcare but it shouldn't in the US. Here in order to drive you or the vehicle has to be insured. I have to pay for insurance that at a minimum covers $50,000 pre person and $100,000 total per accident. At least I think that's what required, I don't recall for sure. When I get coverage I am asked if I wear a seatbelt, and if I don't I have to pay more. Or at least that's how it was when seatbelts weren't required. And that's how it is for health insurance and smoking. I smoke so my health insurance is higher than if I didn't smoke, when I had coverage. I currently live in a state that does not require helmets and I bet motorcycle insurance is the same, if you don't wear one you pay more.

Thus all those who have health insurance pay more when a person is injured severely because they did not wear a simple protective device.

As for severe injuries and helmet trquirments, I survived one while riding my bike years ago after classes I had in college. I am a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, survivor and after coming out of the coma I was in and leaving the hospital I had to move into a rehab house for several weeks. I then started therapy 8 hours a day 3 days a week. All together I went to 4 different places and spent more than a year in therapy. In each case the docs told me it would not of mattered at all if I had worn a helmet or not. My head was not hit, instead the injury was caused by the sudden violent movement of my brain. Heck, the only direct physical injury I sustained was to my left thumb, I can no longer bend or move it properly.

I assume you were educated in a government-run school. *sigh*

Anyway, use your favorite map tool to check Portsmouth, NH

Ok I switched NH and Vermont around, then again due to a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, my memory isn't as good as it used to be. However looking at another map, I see NH only has a small coastline near Boston. I much prefer Florida's coastline which offers a lot of places to scuba dive, which I love to do.

*Sigh*

I also dispise social darwinism, and believe that most people that fail did not do so by their own incompetance, and therefor should be given a great amount of public support to pick themselves up again..

Oh, I believe many who need help don't need because it's their own fault. I'm like that myself. Years ago I was a college student and was riding my bike after class when I was hit by a moving van. While I was in a coma the docs told my family it'd be a miracle if I lived, NOT!!! Now I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. As soon as I could I went back to college, but I quickly found out learning was a struggle for me because of the injury. My memory is bad and unless I keep working at what I learn I will loose it. I also have a difficult tyme initiating projects or other things I need or want to do.

However some of the things the government does I believe civil society can do a better job at. At most I'd prefer government do nothing more than provide a last safety net for those who fall through the cracks. But as it is now social welfare programs are setup to keep people in poverty. If someone collecting welfare tries to improve their economic situation they risk loosing all of the assistance they get. I recall once years ago I was working fulltime but my employer didn't offer health insurance so I checked into getting some myself. The cheapest I could find was about 1/3 of my income. So a roommate recommended I check with the county healthcare department. They said "sorry" I made too much to get assistance.

The one place I really support government assistance is in education, anyone who wants to and can maintain grades should be able to go to college. After WWII, the GI Bill did wonders for the US's economy. All of these returning vets were able to go to college, then the US had a boom in medium income people with vets becoming doctors, engineers, and such. I do have one problem with government educational assistance though, it drives up the price of education. The only remedy to this I can see is work/study or going into the military. While in a person can do two things, one is save money to go to college when they get out, and two is taking as many classes as they can while they are in the military. Though they won't pay all of it, the military will pay for some of the tuition while a person is serving.

The "proof" is in the fact that people were producing works of art for most of human history

And those artists were still getting paid. The ancient Greeks paid their performers, or singers and actors. Many performances were actually religious in nature and the wealthy paid for those performances.

remuneration was usually not the driving incentive in their doing so

Yeap, as I said above much of the art was religious in nature. Those statues were of the gods and goddesses.

but your comment that you wouldn't even consider writing a book without the prospect of making money from it seems to support it.

You're right, I wouldn't spend the tyme writing if I knew I would not get paid but someone else could be. I do have other loves or interests, some of which will if not make money for me will save me some. Such as gardening, before going online I spent a couple of hours working on my garden. I also like bike riding, hiking, practicing martial arts, photography, rollerblading, and scuba diving. Previously I asked why anyone would work full time to do something when they aren't getting paid for it, what I didn't say is that there are some who may only be able to work in the arts, or maybe some other area that some only think of as a hobby. For instance because of an injury, I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, the only thing I think I may be able to make a living at is photography. At the tyme of my accident I was a student majoring in Computer Engineering, it is seriously doubtful I could ever be able to do it now. Heck, I went back to college as soon as I could and realized I had to take some classes over again. Well programming was some of those classes, and when repeating them I found out they were a struggle for me when before they were easy. So now, unless I have some rich patron, or the government pays (and I hate social programs from big government!!!), I loose that ability to make a living in photography if just anyone can come along and steal my work. And today's tech makes it even easier to steal, this article is about piracy afterall. While I'm not a pro photographer, there is an association of photographers I plan on joining which I'm hoping I will be able to get some photography work through.

I can't help feeling if there were more people in it for the love and less in it for the money, we might all enjoy generally better standards in art.

By who's standards? What's one person's art is another's trash. Going back to those statues of the Greek god(dess)es, some think they are beautiful works of arts whereas others may think they it's devil worship or pornography.

I have no doubt that the income gap statistics are true, but the point that keeps getting lost is that each person can choose their own future. Nothing prevents a person from making more money if that's what they want to do. We keep trying to make low income the same as victim, when that's rarely the case. Everyone has control over that and there's plenty of room at the top for anyone who wants to go there.

I think, no I know, you're wrong. Not everyone can improve their socioeconomic future. My background is low income but I went into the army to save money to go to college and once out I started working on a degree in Computer Engineering. Unfortunately as a college student I was hit by a moving van while riding my bike after class. When I came out of the coma I was in I had to move into a rehab house, then spent almost a year in therapy. As a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, I quickly found I would not be about to get the CE degree and it's doubtful I'll be able to get any degree though I did go back to college. Work hard? My life is hard work and I have very little energy for fulltime manual labor. However even if I did I've been repeatedly warned that if I get hit in the head again it could kill me.

I don't know about you, if you've been been in such a situation, but I can emphatically say I'd rather be ignorant to my situation than aware of it like I am. I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI I suffered when I was hit by a moving van while riding my bike after classes in college. I was a Computer Engineering major, however because of my injury my memory is bad. While I recall many things others I don't. For instance while in rehab I tried to do a simple physics exercise any first semester student should be able to do after a few weeks but I couldn't do it. Next I tried a simple one variable integral and I couldn't do it either. Eventually I was able to start taking classes again however it didn't take long before I found out it was hard for me to remember something from class just a few weeks earlier. I'd take the first semester class in a sequence like Java then a few weeks later when the second semester class started it would be a struggle for me to recall what I learned during the first semester. I used to have pretty good memory but not now. I had dreams of what I wanted to do but now I don't think I could ever achieve them. I'd rather be ignorant of this than to know it.

I know a family where the mom has dreamed for 6 years of owning a blender (~$30 from Walmart), but hasn't been able to afford it. Do you even think of a blender as an amenity?

I don't think of a blender as something I need or will use, so I don't have one. And though I hope the family you know can improve their circumstances, I knew and worked with some homeless people. While between jobs and in college I worked some through day labor pools, where you go in early in the morning and sign up to work then wait until they pick you to go somewhere to work. While working there, you could say I was an oddball there as I was in college, I met and worked with some who literally slept on the streets, under bridges, or or in some woods.

the mother has had a entry level mail room job at a good company for ages, but she can't afford nice 'business' style clothing and so she has been repeatedly passed over for real jobs she's trained and qualified for because they feel she doesn't project a 'business image' they want. All because she can't afford to buy blouses and pants from even JC Penny's let alone 'Old Navy' or something like that.

I don't know if she has looked into it but there might be some non profit organization, or thrift shop, she may be able to get good even if used cloths from. A roommate I had years ago went to a Catholic social services org where he got help with clothing and food even though he wasn't Catholic himself.

She also is unlikely to ever get a better paying job and never end the cycle without marrying someone who could support her. However how many men would really want a wife that has 2 kids and is close to 30 years old? How many men that age are still unmarried if they wanted a family...? How many could afford to support her even if they meet criteria 1 & 2? I'll keep the answer short: Not many.

"how many men would really want a wife that has 2 kids and is close to 30 years old?" It may seem a nitpick but I have a problem with the word "want". Change the question to "who would marry a 30 year old with two children", heck change it to a 45 year old and I might very well marry her. If I loved her and I felt ready for it I would ask. Then again since growing up I've wanted four children, two that were mine and two that I'd adopted. However I'm getting to the point where I'd rather just adopt instead. That is if I had the financial capability, which I don't have. More than 10 years ago I had an accident it would of been better if I had died from, according to the docs it's a "miracle" I lived, and I've been on disability since. I hate it, not working, but I have no idea what type of work I can do with my injury. I'm not directly physically handicapped, instead I am a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. However I don't believe I could do much physical labor, and my memory is bad. And as for being or getting married, I'm over 40 and though I've never been married I do want to get married and have a family. However some medical research I've heard of is that the older the parents are when they have a child the more likely it is the child may have health problems. I have two problems with this, one is I think it's be irresponsible to bring a child who won't be healthy into the world if you, well I, know this. And two I don't know if I'd even be able to take care of a family.

Today, ANY idiot with enough cash or access to a computer at work can jump online and post anything he or she wants to. They can be as "authoritative" as they want. Why did this happen? Because the true point of the internet (free exchange of information, ideas, collaboration on culturally and globally beneficial non-profit projects) was lost.

If you have gatekeepers you don't have free exchange. There is far more free exchange in the web today than on the old internet from just ten years ago. Just because a person has to take measures to make sure any info they get is true, which has always been true, does not mean free exchange has been lost. Simply the more free exchange there is the more people have to take measures to be sure about the reliability of they see or hear on the net, and tools for Google make it easier to do research.

There was even an early time on the web where a search in Altavista would give you decent results on various topics without providing many links to companies that sell related products. But today, no matter which search engine you use, various searches inevitably turn up a lot of dreck that is meant to convince you to BUY a solution to a problem instead of BUILD one. It's no wonder that I've resorted to using Wikipedia when I have questions about things as well as AUGMENTING the information with the subscription databases that my public library provides to it's members for free. At least following those routes, one can avoid the McNet for the most part.

More ten years ago I started using Altavista and I still use it. I have no problem distiguishing ads from real results in my searchs. However if you have this problem maybe you should give Mooter a try. And if it weren't for the internet and web your Wikipedia wouldn't even exist. Me, I have found the web emminently helpful and valiable. After having survived a TBI, Traumatic Brain injury, more than ten years ago (after I started using Altavista) I was able to find websites like the one above by using search engines. These websites I have found have been helpful. I have even found chatrooms I can chat with other TBI survivors and/or their caregivers as well as medical, neurological professionals. If I had to go through gatekeepers I doubt I'd ever have been able to find any of these sites. No, the internet would only be a gated community only the elite would have access to.

When I was seriously ill a few years back, my doctors (who were outstanding btw) encouraged me to do research on my own. I scoured medical databases and brought that info to my doctors, who helped me sort through it. I think it elevated the quality of my care, and it made me feel like I retained some control over a scary illness.

As I'm a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, I've been "ill" for more than ten year, and the last doc I saw encouraged me to do some research as well as your's did. Unfortunately because of her schedule she didn't have enough tyme so we could spend tyme talking about health, maybe that's why she wanted me to do research myself.

I see the skin as a natural barrier, and would prefer to go Amish rather than be some ghoulish cyborg.

I think I understand what you're saying but I'd rather have all the info to make a decision on whether to join the Amish or to have an implant. Generally I wouldn't want an implant and would rather join the Mennonites however as I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, if there were an implant that would help me I may go for an implant. I may even agree to be a rat for an experiment.

One, I don't want to be someone else's idea of a consumer, and more importantly I don't want anyone else tell me what I need, "down to the very last atom".

Wal-Mart, Target, and the rest of the big box discounters are already doing it

They may try but just as most people have to ability to, I exercise my freewill and don't buy into their advertizing. For instance, I am a member of two coops where I do a lot of grocery shopping. These coops support not just organics and fair trade but also local businesses and farmers.

just try to buy a computer built out of components from the United States anymore.

Admittedly it is a big box but within a few miles of where I am I can go into a store and pick up all of the parts I need to build my own pc. Having said that, I'll admit that today it's cheaper to buy a compleated computer than it is to build one yourself, unless you have specific hardware requirements, whereas yesteryear it was cheaper to build one. That's how some of the big corporations got started. Take Dell, after he built his own computer Micheal Dell started building computers for others while he was a college student. The Woz, Steve Wozniak, was an engineer working for HP when he came up with and built the Apple computer. He and his friend Steve Jobs, the Two Steves, then started building the Apple in his garage. Thus was Apple Computer Inc, now Apple Inc, born.

Also, I don't know much about your disability- but it seems to me that none of the technology Marshall Brain talks about is very far away- have you looked into the current state of cyber implants yet?

My disability is a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. As my memory is bad, having been destroyed because of the injury, I don't recall what or who the Marshall Brain is. I have however done some research into and have an interest in part because of my TBI, in neurogenesis. However not lately. Actually I've been hoping maybe stemcell research can help. Provided I were given all the possible ramifications, likelyhood of success, possible side effects and such, I'd be willing to a test subject for stemcell or transplantation research.

You can type. You typed this message. That's all that is needed. My poetry is all typed- I've got dysgraphia and nobody could ever read my handwriting.

There's a big difference between typing something on a board or chatroom, and writing an article, essay, poem, or short stories. I don't recall ever hearing of dysgraphia, but my handwriting is attrocious too. However I used to make sure I always had paper and pen because I didn't know when something would popup in my mind that I wanted to write down before I forgot it. Almost all of my poems I wrote that way, even those I turned in for class assignments some of which I wrote after stopping my bike to write it down, I took creative writing. First thing was get it on paper, then type it or write again using better penmanship. I even tried learning calligraphy to improve my penmanship.

Ah, I just googled "dysgraphia" and see it's neurological disorder characterized by writing disabilities, and not just penmanship, but also includes things like improper word usage. Myself, I have neurological problems as well. I am a survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. Actually when I was going to my writing groups, I was in two groups, after my accident that caused the TBI some in them suggested I write about the accident. I tried to but each tyme I did I'd just get so angry I couldn't write.

If it wasn't for the fake need to make a profit, the false scarcity of food, clothing, and shelter that can now be rectified with robotic building and fabrication machines, there'd be no need to say no to any project. "cost too much money to bring to market" wouldn't even be a factor.

I'm having trouble reconciling what you've written so far in this thread and you sig line, "In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism, In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy." Communism lost but you want to go back it seems and try all over again. Oh, and as far as capitalism having triumphed over democracy, it wasn't capitalism it was the Corporate Aristocracy.

I am SICK of the poverty pimps of America describing the "plight" of the American poor. With very little effort, and one can get a job, find a place to stay, and have a life, as evidenced by the MILLIONS of Latinos streaming across the boarder to take jobs that no American wants.

Yeah, right, it's easy for everybody to get a good paying job. NOT!!! I've worked with homeless people and though there were some who just didn't want to work, most of them worked their asses off when they could get a job.

I know, I've been "poor". I've also know what its like to have to get up off my ass and get a job, and do crappy work for a living. If one works hard, is honest and never stops learning, one can end up in IT, with a decent wage. But it does require SOME effort, and not quitting ... EVER.

And how do I know homeless work their asses off? Because like I said above I worked with them, not figuratively but literally. I was and am poor, and I worked like a lot of homeless people I met through a day labor pool. I'd get up early in the morning and head to the labor pool hall where I'd signup for work. Not all the tyme but most of the tyme I'd get sent out on a jobsite, and there always was a number of us sent out, and depending on where it was we may have it relatively easy working but more often than not we busted our asses. And though I wasn't homeless myself those who were would work as hard if not harder than many others I knew who weren't homeless and had good jobs.

However now, my situation is totally different. Though I worked through a day labor pool, I didn't work everyday, instead I worked parttime while attending college majoring in CE. That all ended when I was riding my bike after class and a moving van hit me. While I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if lived. NOT!!! I am now a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. Even if I wanted to continue with the major, I would have to repeat most of the classes I took as my memory was seriously damaged. And because it is damaged it is excedingly hard for me to remember, retain, some new subjects. For instance I started attending college again even though I wasn't sure what I would do as I no longer wanted to go into CE. I figured programming would be easy enough untilI knew what I wanted, however I realized how wrong I was when taking Java. Where I was taking Java was a 3 semester sequence, and no matter what, how many tymes I took it, I could not recall what I learned in Java I by the tyme Java II started, even with an "A" in Java I. I basically had to have a refresher. The last tyme I took Java II, the disabilities, handicapped servives office, spent several weeks looking for tutor for me before they gave up. The professer helped them and me however he couldn't find anyone himself and he wasn't always available.

Americans are a bunch of whiney wimps who would rather get rich quick, while being poor, than work hard.

It really pisses me off when I have to deal with people that have this sort of attitude. I keep wondering how they would survive if they were in my shoes, had to go through a disability like my TBI.

You missed the point here a bit I think. Personal responsibility.

If you don't make enough money to support and take care of a child...DON'T HAVE CHILDREN. Make sure you have done what you need to do without the shackles of marriage or children to get to where you can afford to raise and take care of a family.

If you fsck up, and make bad life choices...well, that's tough my friend. You just have to work harder, or live with your decisions. It isn't up to the world to make your decisions for you, or make up for when you make poor ones.

It's not always a matter of personal responsibility, sometimes things happen that are out of your control. It happened to me, I was in college and one day after my class I was riding my bike when moving van hit me. I wasn't riding wrecklessly or where I shouldn't be riding, instead the driver of the van was compleatly at fault. Witnesses said he was swerving all over the road and it was only a matter of tyme before he hit someone. Months after I came out of a coma and was in therapy I was told that he was a diabetic and had a seizer while driving, however he had caused two accidents prior to mine and was admitted to the hospital twice for the sane reason. He even moved from one state to the state I lived in because the police there issued an arrest warrent with his name on it. Anyway, through no fault of mine, I am a survivior of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. In a heartbeat, I went from being a Computer Engineering student to being disabled and not able to finish the degree. At least not without a lot of assistance and struggle.

Can be done. Not always easy. Not always fun. But if you are physically able (a substantial if) and havn't committed any crimes (totally within your power to control), there is an almost guaranteed path of upward mobility for those who choose to work hard.

Good thing you added "almost" to the front of the statement on the subject line, though I'd change "guaranteed" to "possible". I came from a lower income, not lower middle income but lower income, background and I went into the army to save money so I could afford to go to college. After getting my AA degree, I started at a community college because it's cheaper and students don't have to fight for tyme with a professer trying to get a grant or doing research, after having left campus after my class I was hit by a moving van while riding my bike because of which I now have a permanent disability. However it's not a directly a physical disability, instead I am a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. Because of my injury even if I had wanted to continue with the major I had, which was Computer Engineering, I would of had to retake almost all of the classes needed for the major. And then it's possible I could never do the work as my memory was damaged and it can be difficult if not impossible for me to remember simple things like how to solve a physics 101 problem, and I was taking physics as a minor. SO while I worked hard to get where I was headed, a few microseconds changed it all for me.

In the US now you can pop out a few kids, never work a day in your life and make the equivalent of 35k-50k/year (depending of what state you live in) with all the gov. assistance that's handed out.

First let me state I don't believe in the US federal government giving out welfare. Now can you tell me where you got your data that those on welfare get "35k-50k/year" in any state of the US? Because I have a disability, I am a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury, I get SSI. I served in the US army and worked for more than 20 years after I got out, paying income taxes the whole tyme so I paid into SSI. Yet my SSI will come to less than $10,000 this year, and that is all of the government assistant I get. I seriously doubt anyone except corporate farmers and others who get corporate welfare receive even half of $35,000. I'm tempted to say this is just an attempt to spread disinformation.

The main problem is that there isn't enough resources for those who get sentenced to life or life without parole. That is you won't have people looking for ways to clear you unless you have your own money. Whereas lawyers for those on death row (and with all appeals you have a fair time to go) are a dime a dozen.

True, people who get death sentences, in the US at least, automatically get appeals. Even so though, the death penalty is so permanent. On the other hand if it were me I'd choose death over a life sentence. I love my freedom too much to want to remain alive. Actually I'm kind of in that position now, because of an accident I am a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. And as far as my life for the most part I feel as though I've been living in hell and want to end the suffering.

Macs are fine, but you will be spending more on Photoshop licenses and such in addition to the extra Mac cost.

Yea, I know PS is expensive. Because of that I checked some into other software and have used some. I have used GIMP as well as Paintshop Pro and I've been thinking about trying out Corel Painter. Before I do I'll at least check out MacGIMP, POV-Ray, blender, and/or others. What I may end up doing though is buying an old version of Photoshop, there are some shops in the area that sale and we occasionally have computer shows that displayers sale them as well, and there's a steep discount for upgrades to PS CS.

And yes, I'd like to do some graphic design as well as web design. I was in college until running into some problems almost two years ago working on a web programming degree (it's only a two year degree not a four year degree). However I met a number of student photographers on campus, I took a couple of photography classes myself as well as hung out in the photography rooms, and a few of them expressed interest in setting up online portfolios to showcase their work and sale some photos as well, so I've been thinking of combining both interests and designing websites for photographers.

there really is very little hardware that does not have Linux support.

I've got an HP Pavillion which I got specifically because HP was supposed to be Linux friendly. When I got it I also got a second hdd as well as another graphics card. The second hdd was to install Linux on and the new graphics card was so I could setup a dual head, er two monitors. I only found out later that the PC wasn't Linux compatible, checking out hardware compatibility databases I didn't find any distro that supported it. Graphics, the modem, ethernet, sound, and such were all built onto the motherboard. I even emailed HP tech support about it and they said a PC had to be ordered for Linux, that otherwise they didn't check to see if PCs were Linux compatible.

I do have two PCs with Linux though. The first one is a dualboot machine with a DEC Alpha cpu running NT 4.0 and Redhat. However as the builder didn't offer a modem with the 56k standard my ISP used, I didn't get the PC with one. Then because the cpu's an Alpha I didn't get much software installed so I haven't used it much and not at all in more than 3 years. Recently however, about 2 months ago, I did get a new PC with Linspire Linux preinstalled. I haven't really used it much directly, about all I've done so far is to use one of the hdds for storage. I keep saying I'll actually start using it but I haven't done anything more than play games. I got it because the PC I'm using now has been giving me troubles constantly crashing and needing to be rebooted, now I'm thinking I won't actually get to using the new PC seriously until this one finally dies. At least when it does I'll have all my important files on the new PC, which takes up about 150 GB.

Out of curiosity what is your disability?

It's a neurologcal impairment, I am a survivor of a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. And I do mean "survivor". That's what "we" are called, but also in my case while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. NOT!!! But that's another story.

Why not get the 21" laptop and just run Linux on it. Gphoto works with most any camera, since it supports PTP. Is there any particular functionality specific to the Mac that you need?

First I don't know if Linux will run on it, and I'm not going to buy something that expensive when I won't know if I can use it until I buy it. As for functionality, well amend that to apps then, I am seriously thinking of getting Photoshop CS. Sure I could run PS in Crossover Linux but the last version of PS that has been tested and works in Crossover is PS 7 which is old. And there are no graphics or photo editors, commercial or FOSS, with the capabilities of PS that runs in Linux. And no, GIMP isn't a replacement for PS for photographers. And I am a photographer, amateur right now but I'm hoping to become a professional photographer. As it is now that's about the only thing I could do work wise that I enjoy, I'm a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury, survivor and am on disability.

So you believe in free will then? It seems to me one or the other has to be true, because they are at odds and I believe they cover the whole gamut

First let me say I don't believe in destiny, or fate. However destiny and freewill aren't at odds. While a person may not have control of what happens some people do have some control of what their reactions are. And I do mean "some" people as well as reactions. Myself, I used to be able to control my own reactions pretty well but now I don't. For instance I used to be able to do a lot of planning and follow through. However now because I am a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury, survivor I have a problem with impulse control. No matter how much I plan I can't always control impulses I may have. I take what steps I can so I can handle my impulses, luckily I rarely have any I can't deal with, but I know if I will ever be able to gain control of all impulses.

Falcon

First, do you hold any fraction of a belief that there is a god, or gods? In other words, do you believe there is a deity or deities, anywhere, of any type, regardless of how closely they might or might not cleave to the various religious ideas prevalent today or in the past?

No I do not believe there is any supreme diety. Nor do I believe one does not exist. I have no belief one way or the other, though I would like to know.

Second, as (presently, it appears to me) you seek to hold onto the central position between there might be a god or gods, and there might not be a god or gods, can you tell me why you find the odds for the two cases to be relatively balanced?

I don't seek to maintain this central position you describe, as I've stated before I want to know if a supreme diety exists or do not exist. Nor do I find the odds of one existing or not to be balanced. Actually if I had to choice either way with the I have I'd have to say one does not exist as I sense no evidence one does exist. I won't even use Pascal's Wager to say a supreme diety exists. What was left out is what version of one or more exists. There's a multitude of different gods each with different characteristics so how can a person decide which one to believe in? And remember some of them are jealous and don't want any other diety worshipped. So you're up shit creek if you pick the wrong one. Actually as far as I'm concerned any "God" or gods that requires faith to be "saved" isn't worth being worshipped much less respected.

can give me the reason(s) that you think it is essentially, equally likely that there is, or is not, a god or gods, that in turn showing how the comparison to the invisible pink unicorn presumably fails.

Can you show me where I make this comparison?

I've really not encountered very many agnostics who are open to discussion; that does tend to get them thrown into my prefab "agnostics are copouts" box, but in those cases, I don't feel very apologetic about it... they just feel like people who have taken politically correct behavior to an intellectually dishonest extreme to me.

Maybe it will be easier to understand my position by knowing where I come from. Though my mom was and is Roman Catholic and we went to church at least some when I was little, I don't recall how much though, I considered myself myself as having converted to Buddhism before entering my teen years. I continued studying not just Buddhism but most other major religions including comparitive religous classes in college, even though my major was Computer Engineering. Eventually I came up with my own beliefs made up of Buddhism, Christianity, and Wicca along with other Pagan beliefs. However a little over ten years ago I had a serious accident in which I wasn't expected to live but ended up surviving a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI. Afterwards, though I still recall what they were I no longer believe in the beliefs I had prior to the accident. And because spirituality was important to me I've been seeking to learn if there is anything there, metaphysically. I even kept up going to a spiritual groups I was a member of before the accident which was located at a small metaphysical bookstore. And I was most comfortable or at ease there than in many other places, the only place I was as comfortable if not more was where I was getting therapy in a neuropsycologist's office.

you should recognize that the only reason they don't make money magically appear is that they lack gumption and that pick-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap attitude that you and I possess. We are supposed to feel sorry for those who choose to remain in poverty because they are simply too lazy to make a better life for themselves?[/sarcasm]

You may want to revise your belief that all the poor are poor because they don't want to work. I grew up in the lower income, my father retired from the Air Force, and my mom worked through a technical school to be a lab tech in a hospital while raising three children. She instilled in each of us the importance of education and hard work. So my older sister and I went into the army to save money to go to college when we got out and my younger sister was able to work her way through college to get her masters. However while I was in college I had a serious accident and while I was in a coma the docs told my family it'd be a miracle if I lived. HAHA!!! I'd dispute those docs now, my life has been nothing like a miracle. My younger sister told me that after I came out of the coma I was screaming at everyone to just let me die, and I still wish I had. I don't recall this as I am a Traumatic Brain Injury, TBI, survivor and my memory is bad. After leaving the hosital I moved into a rehab house and while there I tried to do some simply calculus and physics problems a first semester student should be able to do. My major was Computer Engineering with minors in math and physics and I had taken all of the calc and physics classes needed for the major. I realized then that I couldn't do the exercises. If I wanted to continue with the major I would of had to take all of those classes again, only now I have difficulty remembering what I learn in class. Yes, I started going to college again, at first just to take classes but now I'm not sure what I want to do.