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Suicide != Sacrifice

http://www.indiatogether.org/2010/feb/psa-suicides.htm

We've got 10,000 years worth of coal laying around that could be liquefied into diesel fuel,

using the Fischer-Tropsch process (syncrude). Which is so incredibly polluting that only governments desperate for oil turned to it (Nazi Germany, Apartheid South-Africa): India's black agenda in a climate change era (strong political slant but that doesn't disprove the environmental impact).
From an economical perspective, (wikipedia article)

The F-T process has been applied on a large scale in some industrial sectors, although its popularity is hampered by high capital costs, high operation and maintenance costs, the uncertain and volatile price of crude oil, and environmental concerns.

NB I"m not saying Fischer-Tropsch is a Godwin-worthy chemical process ;-), only that the pollution can be so bad that only authoritarian governments can "persuade" their people to put up with it.
Maybe it's less bad if you start the process with clean methane instead of coal. But how clean is frozen rotting swamp gas from under a tundra? Can you say "catalyst poisoning"?

Fischer-Tropsch catalysts are notoriously sensitive to poisoning by sulfur-containing compounds. The sensitivity of the catalyst to sulfur is greater for cobalt-based catalysts than for their iron counterparts.

That being said, if your government just waits long enough doing nothing, it may seem to be the only viable path left to keep those infernal-combustion-engine vehicles moving.

By the way, as far as the french and asbestos are concerned:
http://www.indiatogether.org/2006/feb/env-shipretn.htm

Chronology of events leading to the ban of asbestos in France:
http://www.asbestos-institute.ca/media/france/annex_1.html

In India companies like Coca Cola and Pepsi are pumping water out of the aquifers faster than it be replaced. Some this could mean there is no potable water left. No water? Drink Coke! .

The hindus have got to be the most cruel and callous people on the planet. They need to be shamed by foreign pressure to do something for the 100s of millions of starving children.

http://www.indiatogether.org/2006/jan/ajo-hunger.h tm

"the new kid on the global business stage is also a "republic of hunger." About 320 million of its citizens reportedly go to bed without food every night, representing over a third of the estimated 840 million hungry people across the world."

"according to economist Utsa Patnaik, in the five years between 1998 and 2003 large sections of the Indian population slid down "towards sharply lowered levels of per capita food grains absorption, levels so low in particular years that they have not been seen for the last half century." Clarifying that this steep and unprecedented fall in food grains absorption was independent of the severe drought of 2002-03, she said it had led to a sharp increase in the numbers of people in hunger, particularly in rural areas, with many of them facing starvation.

This unhappy trend has been confirmed by the Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO), which estimates that over a fifth of India's population still suffers from chronic hunger and that the number of undernourished people in the country increased substantially in the second half of the 1990s."

"since the first National Family Health Survey (1992-93) had revealed that India was already one of the most undernourished countries in the world. About half of all Indian children are classified as undernourished, a large percentage of them born with protein deficiency (which affects brain development and learning capacity, among other things). And the 50th round of the National Sample Survey (NSS 1993-94) had established that there was no food security system worth the name in this our land."

"According to Sen, "Estimates of general undernourishment - what is sometimes called protein-energy malnutrition - are nearly twice as high in India as in Sub-Saharan Africa."

" Despite the magnitude and intensity of the problem of endemic hunger, it remains at best on the margins of policy planning, public action and intellectual discourse, not to mention media coverage. According to economist Jean Dreze, "The most startling aspect of the nutrition situation in India is that it is not much of an issue in public debates and electoral politics."

We cannot call India "backwards" or "repressive" with regard to free speech or sexual expression.
http://www.indiatogether.org/2005/may/edt-moraltal k.htm
And recently one Indian actress had a lawsuit filed against her because she merely defended women's right to have pre-martital sex.

Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare.

Splendid display of more ignorance. You have never heard of kamasutra or seen the erotic sculpture in Orissan Kahjuraho temples, have you?

Sorry to bust your bragging about Indian women but lately, the sex ratio of the country has dropped to around 930 which implies nearly 40 million Indian women have been wiped off the planet (no, Nazis don't come close even though the colonial and post-colonial genocides by the British and Americans might): http://www.indiatogether.org/2004/apr/hlt-csratio. htm .

Yes, many Indians from the Indian upper middle class have managed to launch themselves into US (and elsewhere in the West) and grab enough merited jobs to cause panic amongst Americans (read "racist white christian males") but the vast majority of Indians are still rotting in an unimaginably socially oppressive environment that is based on casteism and anti-women practices. As per the human development report, http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/indicators.cfm ?x=24&y=1&z=1 , almost 80% of Indians live below the US$ 2/day income level. And yes, Iran and Saudi Arabia have higher HDI than India. Not to mention India now has 5+ million AIDS cases and is only 2nd to Africa in AIDS. And did I forget to mention that in your vaunted Indian law rape within marriage is not considered a crime ( http://www.intersectworldwide.org/statistics.html ). And rape is on its way up there ( http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/2554.asp ). Need I go on?

BTW, your "voluntary dowry" phrase made me laugh! Just shows that an entire society (including the "educated" elite) has succumbed to the social evil instead of fighting it.

Where do I get my crap? Hmmm...

  http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/1997/DECEMBER /199708.htm/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-02-23-aid s-india-cover_x.htm?csp=34
http://qa.aidsmatters.org/answer/13479/
http://indiatogether.org/2005/jun/ksh-blaming.htm
http://www.youandaids.org/Asia%20Pacific%20at%20a% 20Glance/India/index.asp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3886883.stm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/08/60minute s/main610961.shtml

Maybe they do have a very low per capita incidince of HIV, but it's been shown that the rate of infection is increasing at a rate more than any other country. Combined with the sheer number of people, infected and not, the virus is set to explode. Sorry, I can't find the particular article in which I read this at this moment, but when I do find it, I'll be happy to share. Everywhere I've read, it's extremely taboo for Indians to discuss sex and AIDS.

I don't think the numbers you link to tell the story very well. It's like trying to say that Luxemborg has a larger economy than the US because thier GDP per capita is 60% higher than ours, which is obviously not the case. Compare China and India. They're the only two countries that are close enough to be comparable in popluation and economic status. The CIA world factbook (the source of information that Nationmaster uses) says that 0.9% of Indians are infected, that 0.6% of US citizens are infected, and that 0.1% of Chinese are infected, and that there are about six times the number of Indians infected as there are Chinese, despite China having a third of a million more people (i.e. approximately one United States more people than India).

My point to the poster I replied to was that Indians get it on like nobody's business. I stand by it.

It is in my books. In order to ascend so high in the ranks, he has to be complicit in what Unilever does. And that company, like virtually all companies of its size, has an abysmal record of exploitation and abuse all over the globe.

Can you tell me what 'costs' this CIO has spent in order to get to his position? Come on, anything. Anything solid, at all. Can you do it?

How does child labour sound?

Perhaps you should learn how to use a search engine prior to posting a retarded challenge like that.

Thought not, you're just a common troll.

In light of the above, you did label yourself quite accurately.

countries like China and India see how industrialization gives them a chance to improve their standards of living

China is seeing an improvement in quality if life and the economy but how long will it last when the country is being Deserified? How far will India get with water shortages there? Coca Cola bottling plants in India are pumping and drilling the aquafers, sources of fresh water, in India dry.

I wasn't trying to attack your earlier point about smart people having more kids. I was thinking along the lines of constraints like finite resources and population increase etc. I mean, when we encourage one section of the population to breed, most of the global effort against overpopulation takes a hit. Sooner or later, someone will bring up the Shockley solution seriously.

For instance, India will face this "smart population vs dumb population" question next year, when the election constituencies are redrawn to reflect the population distribution. (Search Google for (india "delimitation commission") (without the parentheses) if you're interested. The current commission is supposed to report sometime in mid-2005.). It happens that some states in India have been very good at controlling their populations, but other state populations are still rising fast (and pulling the total with them). The side-effect of the constituency redrawing is that the states which do achieve low population growth are penalized by having their representation in Parliament reduced. (This has not been the case since 1976, when the Supreme Court froze all re-delimitations until 2000, but the latest delimitation is now well under way). There are only two ways in which this trend could be stopped: 1) If the "smart" states had more kids; 2) If the "dumb" states had less. Since this is India (with its strong accent on reducing total population), the first is not an option. It leads very quickly to the second being passionately advocated, in the form of "Why not force a compulsory sterilization after the second kid", moving on to "No reproduction for illiterates" and other related forms. (Yes I've personally been part of discussions like these). (BTW, targeting other states is still not as bad as blanket-targeting religions and/or communities for population growth).

I would imagine that with the world population exhibiting similar trends (http://esa.un.org/unpp/, using the medium variant throughout), similar sentiments would be expressed globally.

I wasn't attacking you personally for the concept that smart people should have more kids. I was merely pointing out that it often leads to the other strategy being preferentially chosen, especially where there is pressure to reduce overall population.

India has its problems , like any other country.

Too many of them. Here's the mass ongoing genocide of women (see http://www.indiatogether.org/2004/apr/hlt-csratio. htm/ ) which will put all others (nazis included) to shame. In the past 20 years or so, at least 40 million females have been eliminated thru foeticide/infanticide by their own parents/families, often in collaboration with clinics (which run by educated doctors anyway) which perform sex determination tests. And do not blame it on 200 years of British rule. Killing female babies was a practice widespread in India even in the middle ages. If it had not been for the Britishers (and some quality Indians) even today women would be burnt alive as "sati" after their husband's death.

With all due respect, the west is vastly better at taking care of its own people at current times. If you are honest enough you will admit that.

This poses a problem if they want younger crowds as the life expectancy in India is less compared to other countries See here

Since all the west seems interested in is providing them with internet access, of all things, here are some links the farmers might be interested in. How to get clean water, avoiding GM crops and reducing pesticide use.

Are you INSANE? $62,000/year is probably about twice the average income

According to the US Census Bureau, median income for a family of 4, across the US was 63,278 in 2001. The number quoted for India is also family income.