India Launches World's First Education Satellite

samfisher writes "New Scientist is reporting that India has launched EDUSAT, the world's first satellite exclusively dedicated to distance learning. EDUSAT will use the virtual classroom concept to offer education to children in remote villages, quality higher education to students in areas without access to good technical institutes, adult literacy programmes and training modules for teachers. The educational programmes can be viewed on any television set through a simple low-cost receiver costing about $65."

Comments

Ok

[Anonymous Coward]

cue the bad outsourcing and/or "distance" learning jokes...

But how much for the electricity

[goneutt]

Sure, the set top reciever is cheap( to us), but then you need to HAVE a TV and the electricity to run all the gear. So if the intention is to level to playing field, you have created another division around the power issue.

Re:But how much for the electricity

[KitFox]

Electricity may be the bigger problem, but the government and private organizations will likely be funding the equipment for classrooms. We're not talking about "Home education" here, we're talking about classrooms set up with the video equipment, a generator, and a satellite dish, serving the whole local community.

Re:But how much for the electricity

[Baricom]

You have created another division around the power issue.

I'm assuming the power issue was there already. It doesn't make sense to blame an existing technology gap on something new.

Re:But how much for the electricity

[DrMrLordX]

That's not much of a division. Generating sufficient electrical power to operate a television set and receiver is trivial. Private generators, solar cells, wind power, manually-operated cranks, or any other number of devices can be used to power the setup. And nobody's said that only one person can watch the set once it's receiving signals from the satellite. Even a relatively poor community in India should be able to cobble together a set, receiver, and power supply. It wouldn't be impressive by US standards, but it'd work.

Re:But how much for the electricity

[teetam]

The state that I come from in India has 100% electricity coverage since the last 50 years! Every house in the even the most remote village has electricity and almost everyone nowadays has TV.

NOT FLAMEBAIT: For news stories like this, if you are totally ignorant about the foreign country being discussed, it is OK to not say anything. Seriously.

Re:But how much for the electricity

[Anonymous Coward]

The state that I come from in India has 100% electricity coverage since the last 50 years!

Stop lying or name the state. 50 years ago would be 1954. Which Indian state in 1954 had 100% electricity coverage ?

Re:But how much for the electricity

[timts]

as far as I know, those "distant locations" in india are extremely lack of eletricity. thus it makes this satellite not that useful, IMHO.

btw, there's no normal TV satellite in india to carry additional channel for educational programs so that they have to rely on a new satellite for it?

Good Pricing in India

[superpulpsicle]

If a simple low-cost receiver costing about $65, I think that's alot cheaper than U.S public education. I really don't know how edumacation money is spent in the U.S. Teachers are low paid, principal might be better, but all resources don't remotely add up to our tax dollars. Though all in all that's still better than colleges. Which now charges $65,000 easily in two years.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Barlo_Mung_42]

"Teachers are low paid, principal might be better, but all resources don't remotely add up to our tax dollars."

The problem is that we far outspend the rest of the world in military spending to maintain our illusion of superiority. We spend more than the next 23 nations combined for our ability to fight a multi front war while school funding continues to slip. In the city I live in they had to close schools three weeks early last year because of lack of funding. It's a complete misplacement of priorities and both political parties are guilty of it IMO.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[The Slashdotted]

The average wages+benefits to a teacher in the Chicago Public Schools? $57,722

How about the average salary+benefits of being Administration? $94,500

(Look up the salary of every public teacher in the state of Illinois at thechampion.org.) For Chicago, search for "DIST 299" The numbers include pension, which they can roll over. It's the private school teachers that make next to nothing. (Catholic grade school teacher I know: ~$24,000)

The reason there's a shortage is because of race/gender affirmative action, and the working conditions inside special education classrooms.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[be-fan]

Well, in terms of percantage-GDP, we spend less than most developed nations. So I don't think military spending is out-of-whack. I do think it needs to be reallocated a bit --- there are crazy boondogles like the F-22 program, which is useless to us in a world where even the F-15 is still far superior to what our enemies have.

We also spend tons of money on education, we just don't do a good job of getting our money's worth.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

So India has found a more cost effective way of educating the population. Not only is this bloody fantastic, I also like the way that India is able to profit from the educational progress of other countries to leap ahead of them. All the technological innovation that took place in Europe and America - satellite technology, rocketry, etc., has been picked up and used without all the preliminary development having to be repeated.

I hope Europe and America can do the same a few more years down the line to leap forward on the backs of Indian technology developed with their new low-cost education system.

Of course, international patent agreements pushed by the US may prevent that. ;)

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Money for Nothin']

Though all in all that's still better than colleges. Which now charges $65,000 easily in two years.

You're an idiot if you're paying $32,500/year for an undergraduate college education.

State schools are worse than private schools, but for the $22,500/year (or thereabouts) difference you're suggesting, at the undergrad level, they aren't *that* much worse (now, at the graduate level, it may make a real difference. But at the undergrad level, I generally don't think so, unless your comparison is Harvard to Bumfuck U. in Montana or something).

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

Well, in terms of percantage-GDP, we spend less than most developed nations.

Not disagreeing with everything you say, but for the above... that's a unviable justification. Military strength is not determined as a percentage of GDP, but as an absolute. Once you have topped the military power of another nation by a secure margin (which we'll take the relative budgets as an indicator of) there is no point in continuing, regardless of the relative percentages.

The US spends way too much on its armed forces and the population suffers at the expense of the military-industrial lobby.

I also think it would have a significant and positive effect on the rest of the world if the US scaled back it's military forces. After all, many nations follow their example. This will be especially true of space based weapons. The US has an unprecedented chance to try and stop mankind's wars spreading into space which they are walking away from. "If we don't do it, someone else will."

Re:Good Pricing in India

[DrMrLordX]

We um, actually out-spend many foreign nations, per student, on education as well.

Didn't any of your highschool teachers try to give you a back-handed insult by telling you how much brighter students were in [insert Warsaw pact nation here], even though many of them were stuck using nothing but slide-rules, second-rate calculators, and limited supplies of books? I got that line from teachers on several occasions(and no, it wasn't directed solely at me). That line was used, of course, to shock/jolt the class into realizing that, in the end, one's ability to learn was limited chiefly by one's commitment to learn. An impoverished child from an impoverished nation full of GODLESS COMMUNISTS(*cough*) could run circles around some of our best math students just because they tried harder.

I can't say for certain what is harming education in the US, but I don't think we can blame funding. If you don't believe me, take a look at the Washington, DC school system as a prime, if not overly cited, example. Compare the spending per student to their performance in standardized testing. It ain't pretty.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[ImaLamer]

I believe most of the money that you are talking about ("all resources don't remotely add up to our tax dollars") goes to administration. You know, the people that don't belong there.

Really, the problem with public schools and our tax money is that the school don't have to be competitive in the marketplace. No matter what the results, voters choose who runs the school board. Failed leaders get re-elected based on their name recognition and advertising spending, successful leaders are ofter pushed out no matter what. On the otherhand if someone raises through the ranks and changes schools, and they aren't liked by the schoolboard then they also hit the streets.

A good example is El Paso's Yselta school district. It's one of the countries poorest schools and one man Anthony Trujullo raised test scores to some of the highest in the country. Parents were happy with the change but he was fired by the board 4 to 3. One of his supporters said it was politics, and they fired him based on no more than "a personal dislike by four members".

There is no 'market check', if you want to call it that and no competition for funds. Not that I'm for starving bad schools to death, but it makes you wonder. There is no incentive to actually make the schools better.

"No Child Left Behind" was supposed to fix this, but it has by and large failed. That isn't just my opinion. (See this NYT Article, reg required... basically there isn't room in "better" schools for those wishing to switch from "bad" schools, a provision of NCLB.)

Many times, the failures of the public school system in America is deeper than it looks. Take school violence for example. I had to do a report for school with 4 others. When I suggested that violence had nothing to do with video games or TV people looked at me with awe. For more into that subject, read Preventing Violence in Schools Through the Production of Docile Bodies by Pedro Noguera (PhD). Good read, I promise. It basically says the failure of the public schools in general is based in the founding years and how they were formed after mental asylums and prison...

We all have to be educated in these areas in order to exact change. Better public schools are our way to make this country better for all, it's the first line of defense (IMHO).

Re:Good Pricing in India

[DrMrLordX]

In all fairness, it has yet to be established that this is a truly cost-effective way to educate the population. If nobody watches, nobody learns.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

Using 1999-2000 numbers (to avoid counting the current war, which is obviously boosting it)

US- 3.3% GDP
Japan- 1% (mandated by their Constitution post WWII)
France- 2.7
England- 2.5
Germany 1.6
Canada 1.4
China 2.2
Italy 2.0
India 2.5
Poland 2.1
Netherlands 1.8

Even if you throw out the results from small countries, we spent 25% more as a percentage of GDP. There are a few outliers above us in the developed world, such as Isreal for obvious reasons of being at perpetual war. And there's third world countries with higher, due to being dictatorships. But among developed nations we are the highest by far, and in 2003, we spent more despite the rest of the world decreasing as percent GDP. And this doesn't even mention that our by population numbers are totally skewed high.

Source: http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32209.pdf

If we lowered ourself just to the level of Britain and France, hardly small armies, we'd save 50 billion a year.

And if you want crazy boondongles- lets talk about the comanche. How many billions, and in the end we don't even have a prototype?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[polecat_redux]

Well, last I heard, the US currently spends around $350B/year for defense/military... that's ONE BILLION each day of the year. I personally think that's a bit much, especially when all of the new toys that much cash can fund turns our military leaders into warmongering children that want nothing more than to see what all of those creative implements of death can do to real people. I think we'd actually be safer if we didn't try so hard to be the biggest kid on the block and push our will onto other countries.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

Bullshit. My father is a Chicago public school teacher. He barely makes tha much with 25 years experience, a masters, and 40 hours (highest educational pay grade under doctorate). He has mental disability certs that are currently in high demand (utter lack o special ed teachers). He BARELY makes this much, and only has in the past few years.

In other words, THESE NUMBERS ARE COMPLETELY MADE UP.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

Not unusual. The US invented the transistor, but when you heard the term transistorised, it usually meant Japanese. The underdog frequently manages to innovate because they have to, while the head of the pack has noone to chase. I wouldn't be surprised if in a century India is the superpower and we're not.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot if you're paying $32,500/year for an undergraduate college education.

this is why people don't move up in the world, for the most part. look at where nearly every one of the recent hires at your university went to school. even if you attend a state school, chances are that your professors were educated at harvard/yale/etc. then look at where the directors of major organizations, corporations, and government departments went to school, and you'll see the same pattern.

the elite send their children to these schools for a reason. it's not that the quality of education is any better or that they're harder. if anything, state schools are more likely to pile on all the extra requirements and be more work to get through. no, the reason you go to an exclusive school is to meet others that will help you advance in life.

another thing i've noticed about professors at state schools is that because they went to a better school than their students, they tend to look down on them.

i know i'm generalizing a bit. depending on your chosen field, the school you went to may have less of an effect on your ability to advance. but think carefully about where you go to school. decide whether the money you save on your education is worth the cost to your future.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

They aren't always worse either. For an example off the top of my head- there's at least 3 public schools in the top ten list for CS. It varies from school to school, but there's a lot of good public universities out there.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful about saying that teachers are low paid. 40k for only 9 months of work isn't that bad. They get a 3 month vacation, and pull double minimum wage. I'd call that a pretty nice deal, minus all the kids and all that.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

No child left behind is a bad concept in some ways - in bringing the education down to the lowest level, you stifle the progress of the bright and gifted.

That is wrong.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you have topped the military power of another nation by a secure margin

And just what do you propose as a "secure margin?"

One man better than the opposition? (1,000 deaths on our side, but their 1,001 deaths won the war for us).

One aerial bomb better? (10,000 deaths on our side but, but their 11,000 deaths won the war for us).

One nuclear bomb better? (1,000,000 deaths on our side, but their 1,100,000 deaths won the war for us).

One remote control war better? (1,000 deaths on our side, but their 100,000,000 deaths won the war for us).

Re:Good Pricing in India

[bsartist]

the head of the pack has noone to chase

But he has the rest of the pack nipping at his heels.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[ucdoughboy]

quality of education depends on more than the teachers, it also depends on the school. You can go to an average state school, but the ppl there overall won't be as hard working and intelegent as say stanford or berkeley. As such if your smart you won't be pushed by your peers and never realize your full potential or lack there of =\

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AoT]

It's up to around 410 billion a year now, and closer to 550 if you count the money being spent on Iraq, that isn't 'officially' part of the budget.

God I hate politicians.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[tftp]

At least the government honestly tried. And don't think these educational programs are useless. I watched a lot of them just for fun, and in fact they were far more intellectually challenging than every other program on every other channel.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AoT]

The big problem with education in the US is that the money doesn't actually get to the classrooms. It's all tied up in the administration. All the damn managers get paid *way* too much while teachers make relatively little and spend far too much on supplies.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AoT]

My mom is a teacher as well and these numbers seem about right. Remember its wage + benefits, not just wage. These days medical and pension plans are expensive. Also, it isn't clear whether this number is before or after taxes.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[jeif1k]

I believe most of the money that you are talking about ("all resources don't remotely add up to our tax dollars") goes to administration. You know, the people that don't belong there.

And how do you suppose the administrative work is going to get done? You know: parents want reports on their child's performance, politicians want reports on school performance, health departments want reports, students want test scores, etc. Schools need to do budgeting, hiring and firing, human resources, etc.

Teaching is hard enough without also having to work yourself as a part-time administrator and keep track of mountains of paper.

If anything, public schools don't have enough administrators.

There is no 'market check', if you want to call it that and no competition for funds. Not that I'm for starving bad schools to death, but it makes you wonder. There is no incentive to actually make the schools better.

So in addition to the burdens of teaching and administration, you also now want to add even more job uncertainty, public relations, marketing, and all those other costs that come with free market competition to teaching. And apparently all without giving the schools staff to do it.

It basically says the failure of the public schools in general is based in the founding years and how they were formed after mental asylums and prison...

You apparently think that the US is the only country in the world in which public education exists and that the US invented it all. Both views are wrong. Public education goes back long before the founding of the US. And it works well all over the world. In fact, it works pretty well in the US, too.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[polecat_redux]

That's pretty disgusting - especially since the people of this country seem to have very little say in how exactly our government runs. This democracy of ours is like trusting a designated driver to get you home safely when your confidence in them is based solely on the fact that they're not drunk.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

Bleh. Before anyone else catches it, I'll catch it for myself- US should be 3%, not 3.3. 3.3 was their 2003 spending, which includes Iraq and Afghanistan.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[RKBA]

Why don't the people of your community get together and fund a school for their children themselves (ie; rent a facility, hire the teachers, etc). That way they could hire the type of teachers they want teaching their children and be free of federal regulation. It would surely be cheaper than everyone sending their kids to a private school. Education used to be solely a local function, and there is no reason it can't be again.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[AuMatar]

Even at benefits plus wage its off for the average. And for all his complaining about the top schools like Naperville (which for non-Chicagoans, is a VERY well off suburb), there's 2 that make under 30K. If thats benefit+wages, thats pathetic. Do you really think we can get people capable of teaching well, especially in science and math where they could probably go into industry and make 2-3x that? Is it really a good idea to have your children taken care of for 7 hours a day by the lowest bidder like that?

Also note that whenever you see salary numbers like this, its before taxes. Since taxes vary so much from person to person and the school boards have no access to tax records, theres no other way to ccompute it. Especially when you figure 2 income families in.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[October_30th]

Here's another list.

North Korea tops the list at 33.9%...

Re:Good Pricing in India

[FredThompson]

The U.S. government spends more on education than it does for the military.

The problem with public education in America is not a lack of funding, it's a lack of accountability.

You've just repeated the same, old, tired liberal crap propaganda which has been going on since the Great Generation junk of the 60s.

There's no proven causation between amount of money spent on public education and levels of proficiency among students. If there were, U.S. public school kids would be at the top of proficiency comparisons.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[FredThompson]

"The US spends way too much on its armed forces and the population suffers at the expense of the military-industrial lobby."

Really? Amazing. And your proof is...nonexistant.

The level of creature comforts and services available to Americans continues to grow at an astounding rate. In America, a person has to truly work hard to avoid eating regularly and living in safe housing. 100 years ago, that wasn't the case in the U.S. But, of course, there weren't things like an Interstate road system or a national electrical grid. And just why did those come into existance? They were created for national defense by those horrible capitalist industries. You know, the same ones that generate enough food to feed 80% of the world and developed the technologies which allow the computer on which you typed your drivel to exist.

Time for you to put on the big kid pants and stop complaining.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[FredThompson]

France has, what, 2 aircraft carriers, one of which lost it's screw on the maiden voyage? They did nothing in Rwanda, Haiti or the Sudan. Of course they don't have to spend money. They don't do anything.

Germany? When was the last time Germany had a capable military. Hint...think swastika.

Canada. That would be the country just North of the U.S. which is protected by the U.S., wouldn't it?

China. Slave labor and pirated technology (or given by companies like Loral.)

India. What do they do outside their own borders?

Poland. Ditto
Italy. Ditto
Netherlands. Ditto

Watch their numbers go up if the U.S. cut things dramatically.

There's no Comanche prototypes? Really? I've seen 2. It was to be a what? scout helicopter? Now tech has developed so much that UAVs are practical. Must have been a great investment in tech and look at the savings between what would have been deployed and what actually is. Fantastic!

Numbers of troops /= capability of military /= linear scale of cost.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[FredThompson]

$1 billion USD/day is just over $3/day/resident. If you do the math with more accurate numbers you'll find it wokr out to around $0.10-0.15/hour/person.

You didn't think "personally" even though you claimed to.

The rest of your post is just as unrealistic.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

" Well, in terms of percantage-GDP, we spend less than most developed nations"

I think that this war has thought us how convoluted "military" spending has become.

Due to black budgets and creative accounting we can make our military spending seem much less then it is. For example take all the mercenaries running around in Iraq, does their money come out of the military budget or some other budget. How about all those other private contractors? When the shuttle carries military payload or does military experiments do we charge it to the military?

It would be interesting to try and figure out how much money we actuall spend on the military but I bet it's virtually impossible by now.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the only instance of good pricing. I can tell you about two projects that's going on at one of the IITs.

One is low cost Internet access through a mixed wireless-wired link. Called corDECT, its been used to bring internet to villages in remote areas where even going on roads is a problem. Its mainly used as a source of information for commerce (prices of commodities,etc) and as an educational hub.

Another quite famous project is the low cost ATM. You have an ATM machine that costs less than US$1000 (that's right, only three zeros). It can only dispense notes of one denomination and instead of having a satellite dish, connects to the bank through the corDECT system. Again, a big step for micro-financing.

While we all know about the outsourcing threat, a few years from now, its not impossible that some of these projects could spawn startups that start providing very serious competition to our (US) companies.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

Catholic and other private schools get to cherry pick the best students. It's much easier to teach smart kids.

No matter what your criterea is if a school can get to pick who goes and who does not they will always win against a school that has to take everybody.

BTW the reason for the higher salary of public school teachers probably has to do with the fact that they are unionized. As a general rule union members get paid more in any industry.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Writer]

But, of course, there weren't things like an Interstate road system or a national electrical grid. And just why did those come into existance? They were created for national defense by those horrible capitalist industries.

... don't forget the Internet . You know. This thing you're looking at right now.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

India. What do they do outside their own borders?
Poland. Ditto
Italy. Ditto
Netherlands. Ditto

More than you seem to be aware of.
Unfortunately Dutch forces are active in both Afghanistan and Iraq because the Dutch government likes to kiss Mr. Bush's ass. The same goes for the Polish and Italian forces.
Oh..and France is about the only Western nation to have send troops to Sudan.

You had better brush up on your knowledge.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

"Really, the problem with public schools and our tax money is that the school don't have to be competitive in the marketplace."

Over 75% of all businesses fail leaving employees, customers, vendors and everybody out in the cold. Do you really want a system where 75% of all schools in the US shut down and where you have to constantly find a new school for your kids to go to?

If the voters are not doing their job electing regents and board members then it's their fault and not the schools.

Having said all that the US education system is in a sore need of being completely overhauled. Matt Groening said it best.

"school prepares you for life by teaching you to sit quietly at your desk doing exactly what you are told"

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

You are a muppet.

Re-read my post. Nothing in there is anti- (or pro-) capitalism. For what it's worth, I tend towards a capitalist view of things, but Capitalism is an economic system. It is not a trademark of the Pentagon.

I also take great delight in informing you that the horrible capitalist industries do not generate 80% of the world's food. You'll find that most societies (even communists) have a tendancy to grow food regardless of their economic model. I can't think why that is.

Now to your actual point (such as it is):
And your proof is...nonexistant.

Nope, I just assumed that it was obvious that if your government didn't spend about 400 billion dollars a year on the military, then that money could be spent on something else. Assuming that they ploughed even some of that budget into education rather than explosives, then we can conclude the american public would be better off. That's logic. The only justification is if you really think the US needs to spend hundreds of billions of dollars more than everyone else on its armed forces to ensure it's citizen's safety. I think it is equally clear that it doesn't.

And finally,
Time for you to put on the big kid pants and stop complaining.

Nyah nyah!

Re:Good Pricing in India

[thogard]

Where have you been? Admin comes second in the US. The largest amount gets spent on those yellow school busses. Does any other country in the world have dedicated school buses? Most of the ones I've been in just work out a deal with the local bus company.

I agree that admin is too high. Look at any school district and compare their admin numbers to what it was 20 years ago. Same goes with city government as well.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

The problem with public education in America is not a lack of funding, it's a lack of accountability.

What do you mean by this? What would you do to introduce accountability?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

What a strange argument. What are you saying exactly? That we need to spend more because we like to meddle in other peoples affairs?

"Watch their numbers go up if the U.S. cut things dramatically"

I'd highly doubt it. If canada has no intention of invading another country now why would they want to invade other countries if we cut spending.

If anything worldwide military spending would go down if ours did because people would not feel threatened as much. Of course it's all silly because we can kill anybody we want any time we want. We are finally living out our John Wayne destiny.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

"You had better brush up on your knowledge."

Bah, he is a republican. He does not need knowledge. He has "strong beliefs"

Re:Good Pricing in India

[lemur337]

We spend more than the next 23 nations combined for our ability to fight a multi front war while school funding continues to slip.

Very concisely stated. Can you cite sources?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

Of course it's all silly because we can kill anybody we want any time we want. We are finally living out our John Wayne destiny.

Yep. There's the sound a nail's head being well and truly hit. Modern developed countries are like egg-shells armed with hammers. Everyone can dish it out and no-one can take it. Long range nuclear weapons have rendered existing armies useless for anything other than population control. In a way, that makes them nastier as fighting a war can concievably be an act of defence or liberation, but population control is inherantly about restricting freedom.

Of course, not everyone has long-range nuclear weapons, but if N. Korea is almost there, then I think that's an indication that anyone who's anyone will soon be so armed.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[EpsCylonB]

If a simple low-cost receiver costing about $65, I think that's alot cheaper than U.S public education. I really don't know how edumacation money is spent in the U.S. Teachers are low paid, principal might be better, but all resources don't remotely add up to our tax dollars. Though all in all that's still better than colleges. Which now charges $65,000 easily in two years.

Education in the US must be bad judging your grammar and spelling.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

The internet would have come anyway, it was internet time. Universities in Britain were developing networks between themselves that would have been another internet seed. Business would also have come up with the same as corporate networks grew ever larger.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[mangu]

And just what do you propose as a "secure margin?"

Look at it this way: when a score of men armed with box-cutters and the surprise element kill more civilians in your own country than the number of deaths among your invading soldiers in a country in the other side of the world, this means your military spending, regardless of its size, is way too biased for offense rather than defense.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

India. What do they do outside their own borders?

Spend their time trying to fend off Pakistani-owned Stinger Missiles and F-16s.
Question: Stinger Missiles and F-16s are manufactured by which Country?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[r36e51c]

so you say that most administrators get the tax money, but public schools need more administrators? maybe your right, who am I to say. I just dont know how well others can learn from a tv screen.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[tovarish]

actually usa almost spends as much as the rest of the world combined as seen here

Re:Good Pricing in India

[nwbvt]

Military and education costs come out of different pockets. The federal government pays for the military while state governments pay for the education (or at least they are supposed to under the 10th amendment).

Re:Good Pricing in India

[tovarish]

so you are saying usa has to spend the money cause they are responsible for a new world order. i wonder who were the last guys to use such justifications Hint...think swastika.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[tovarish]

the cryogenic technology used to build rockets to send satellites are pretty much not shared by most countries who have them. india has managed to develop most of it on their own and join a select band of 6 countries.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[nwbvt]

Of course you have to take in account that those numbers are probably what the annual salary would be if teachers worked 12 months of the year like the rest of the world. They end up having an abnormally large break during the summer months. Thus the problem is not that teachers are not getting paid enough, it is that teachers are not getting enough hours to work.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

What is wrong with just voting for a political party that wants to do some changes?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[jeif1k]

Are you trying to claim that "administrators are getting most of the tax money"? If so, you should be aware that administrative overhead in public schools is fairly small, somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-10%.

If you want better public education, it would probably be good to spend more money on administrators so that teachers can focus on teaching. What may need some adjustment is the relationship between teachers and administrators: the teachers should be in control and the purpose of administrators should be to assist them.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the five countries of Central America:
Guatamala has the worst literacy rate, shortest life expectancy, lowest GNP. And the biggest army.

Costa Rica has best literacy rate, longest life span and best GNP per capita. Costa Rica has NO ARMY.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. What do you care that your kids can't read and you can't afford health care? Just take your SUV out for a drive on the Interstate.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

1/5th of the US national budget is devoted to defense in 2005. I believe that adds up to 1/2 Trillion dollars, also known as "way too much".

I don't know about you, but my computer doesn't "drivel my existence" at all. But your president's military spending just might help drive us all out of existence.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[emm-tee]

I hope Europe and America can do the same a few more years down the line to leap forward on the backs of Indian technology developed...

Err.. I think we did that already..

The number system we use today originated 4000 years ago... in India. http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/ mm2217/han.htm

And while we're at it, important developments in mathematics were made 1000 years ago in Baghdad, in what was then Babylon. http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopic s/Arabic_mathematics.html. Mind you, all the looting of museums and important sites which has happened since Iraq was invaded may mean a lot evidence for that has been lost.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and they're also a country with among the lowest living standards in the world... And they have 13 years of mandatory military service (according to a south korean in my german class)

Re:Good Pricing in India

[r36e51c]

oh I missread, I was looking at what you quoted and your response thinking it was the same. I agree with assisting teachers. Im sure you agree its also in the hands of the parents for support though.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Performaman]

Catholic and other private schools get to cherry pick the best students. It's much easier to teach smart kids.
From personal experience as a stuednt, I can tell you that there are always exceptions to this rule.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah, he is a republican. He does not need knowledge. He has "strong beliefs"

Pardon me for correcting your misconception, but it's not a strong belief. It is a certainty. God told me so.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Indian rocket technology has been influenced a lot by the Russian technology transfers.
See this link for example: http://www.npec-web.org/presentations/space.htm

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

Although factually correct, your arguments are weak (no offense). To see what I mean, check this out...

Some of the railways and a lot of the highways WERE due to the military. They were built by the military due to the war. But that doesn't prove anything. If the allocation was incorrect, it's wrong no matter what the result was. For instance, it would likely be more efficient for the govt to give all the money to the construction companies (or not collect the taxes in the first place) than it is to divert it to roads via the military. What the military does is for their purposes (i.e. war) and whatever benefit that you derive is tangential and tertiary. It is far more efficient to give the money directly to the task in question. This applies to anything. For instance, consider the GPS system. This was developed for military purposes and has become useful for non-military purposes. But the fact that it became useful for non-military purposes is accidental or tangential. It would have been better to give the billion dollars (or whatever it cost--I think it's more) to a university research lab or to a private satellite company to develop a communcation network (or not collect taxes or go into debt) than it is to spend it on the military in order to generate some civilian use, which may or may not have happened.

Lastly, most of the military spending (especially spikes such as during war) is financed via debt. You are basically spending something you don't have. You'll feel the pain of the debt within 50 years (because USA is reaching critical levels--so are many other countries)...

Re:Good Pricing in India

[bluFox]

[quote*]All the technological innovation that took place in Europe and America - satellite technology, rocketry, etc., has been picked up and used without all the preliminary development having to be repeated.[*quote]

Are you aware that Indian space program was at the receiving end of sanctions by US from 1970? That also meant that India was denied the technology that you say has been picked up, almost all the time. Even now the ISRO is under sanctions by the US [check your sanctions list] even after being an ally of US for quite some years, We effectively had to reinvent the wheel again, again and again due to these policies.
If India can thank any one for at least some portion of their rocketry to any one , it is the erstwhile USSR and Russians who provided a lot of help in the maturing years of ISRO.

Please do not assume that any technology developed in the world, be it in the sphere of Rocketry or Nuclear programs is immediatly derived from the US, because there are other countries in the world that have the same knowhow and resources to develope the same independently.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Barlo_Mung_42]

Because making sure a few students are well educated isn't enough. My son isn't even in school yet but I know we would all benefit from living in a well educated society.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[apoc.famine]

Another major issue is that a lot, if not most non-us countries only test their high-performing students. In the US, we test *everyone*, and yet for years people have been duped into comparing those results against the top 50-25% of students in other countries. We mandate that *all* students get a moderately equal education, and that everyone gets tested. In the rest of the world, there are a lot of countries where students don't see any real equality in education, and a lot of kids don't get educated at all. Comparing scores from the US to other countries is really comparing apples to oranges.

As someone who just started teaching, I can honestly say that there isn't a lot wrong with education in the US, at least compared to much of the developed world. Standards for teachers have continued to rise, and the people I see entering the workplace now are more skilled than teachers were 30 years ago. Is everything roses and chocolates? Hell no! But we're not doing badly. There's always plenty of room for improvement, but I'm not worried about this country collapsing due to the educational deficiencies of the next generation.

What could be done to improve the educational system in this country? All sorts of things. The problem is that nobody can agree on those things. Personally, I think standardized tests are a crock of shit, and that they don't reliably test content knowledge nor the ability to use what one has learned. Do I have a better method to reliably and fairly assess a student's knowledge, which works flawlessly across all cultures and languages? No. And neither does anyone else.

Would more funding help? Yes. But funding is useless without training and direction. I would love to see technology fully integrated into public schools, where we teach students to make good use of it. But until we get both funding and knowledgeable teachers and administrators, that won't happen. At the moment, my high school doesn't even teach programming, and it's one of the largest schools in the area. I have a celeron 400 for a workstation, running XP, Novell desktop environment, with mandated use of Gradequick for attendance and grades. I can't run multiple apps on it at once. But it's the best we have, because the funding isn't there, and the administration doesn't see better computers as a priority. Combine these things with a school board composed of non-educators, primarily concerned with chopping down the school budget, and there will be no change in how the school views technology for years to come.

The bottom line is that in the US, we have made equality the goal, rather than maximizing the abilities of our top students. While it's a noble goal, we still aren't there, and the system is set up to force all students to a middle-point. We're a country that wants everyone treated equally rather than fairly. Education reform is tied to the government, the economy, and the citizens. The only way to make education better is to educate the general public on education, and hope that it trickles up to the government. We've been debating educational reform for hundreds of years, and we will continue to do so for hundreds more. If you want change, be sure to vote, and get on a school board, because they help set the policies and goals for schools.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[anoopa]

sorry but those numbers are skewed... indias current GDP is somewhere around 2.8 and US sustained GDP over past few years not takin war into account is 3.0

Re:Good Pricing in India

[NeoSkandranon]

*what* local bus company?

I have to question the logistics of that working in the states as well. Or at least in my area (fairly rural)---we have about 20 buses at my highschool that scour the county pretty much in set areas to get all the students to school. A "local bus company" would need at least as many, perhaps more (to account for day to day traffic as well) vehicles to accomplish the same thing, as well as taking a huge stride out of their established route to let people off at the school. In densely populated areas I see that it might be a good idea, but out in the mountains like where i am? Doesn't seem feasable at all

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, but educated citizens tend not to want to join the army and go secure oil pipelines and what not.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[polecat_redux]

$1 billion USD/day is just over $3/day/resident.

First of all, our defense budget is closer to $450B.

I'm not really concerned with how much I personally have to pay each day to keep our military running (BTW, the US work force as of 2003 amounts to 146.5M people, thus placing the cost/person/day at around $6.5, or $8.4 using the $450B figure). What I am concerned with is the fact that $450B is a tremendous amount of money that could really be put to better use somewhere else. For example, 12% of our 293M people are below the poverty line (35M people), which for an individual living alone is about $9K/year. That 450B in defense spending each year amounts to $13,000 each year for the people that really need it. That could pay for food, shelter, basic healthcare, and most importantly, education. Although it wouldn't make much sense to cut our defense budget altogether, there is no reason it couldn't be less than what it currently is. We have far too many other problems in this country that are going largely ignored while we sink billions into the military.

The rest of your post is just as unrealistic.

If you'd like to explain how exactly I was being unrealistic, that might help things along. Thanks.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Wow, an extra $50 billion a year for the Dept. of Education. Wonder how many Assistant Deputy Principles and bureaucrats they could hire with that money? There might be a little left over for a few dozen teachers even!

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

My high-school held summer courses for money for whomever wanted to learn about such interesting topics as MS Word, MS Excel, etc. They used the money to buy new computers. 90% of the students there get at least a BS or BA. I think some like to blame everything on lack of funding.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

I wasn't aware of that actually so I apologise for my mistake. The only sanctions I was aware of were those imposed under Clinton in response to the nuclear tests India carried out. They lasted about a year before the US realized that Europe was cashing in on the opportunity. [I mention this for anyone else who might be reading, not you bluFox].

What provoked the 1970's sanctions?

The basis of what I said was that the US and Russia led the field in rocketry and satellite development and I'm sure that the examples were of use to the Indian engineers and scientists. But I do stand corrected, don't worry. I don't even have the excuse of being American.

Kerala looks beautiful by the way. I may visit when I get the chance.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

Err.. I think we did that already..

Everything goes in circles. And everyone adds a little something each time knowledge changes hands.

Except for patent lawyers.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

The 1970's sanctions were imposed because of the first nuclear tests (back in 1974) and because of the earliest rockets/satellites developed by India around then.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't be bullies... Dubya is misusing our military.

I disagree with the lack of wisdom that says we shouldn't be the biggest kid on the block. Anyone that thinks there is safety in being weak needs to think more carefully.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[shadow_slicer]

But it's in the US's best interest to promote larger militaries in other nations.

After all it's good for the american economy. Consider:

The US is the largest exporter of weapons:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Arms_trade#Top_15 _arms_exporters_in_1999
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0821-02.htm

Re:Good Pricing in India

[charyou-tree]

If we lowered ourself just to the level of Britain and France, hardly small armies, we'd save 50 billion a year.

Oh, yes, by all means, let's aspire to be France's military equal ...

Reach for those stars, eh?

And if you want crazy boondongles- lets talk about the comanche. How many billions, and in the end we don't even have a prototype?

You could point to other expensive, cancelled proograms, too. But you'd be ignoring the fact that spending money on R&D is a gamble that sometimes
a) has enormous payoffs (the first atomic bomb, stealth technology, etc)
b) doesn't pay off
c) pays off in unexpected ways

Do you put Reagan's SDI dollars in b or c? I'd say c - we sure learned a lot about lasers, for one thing, and that knowledge has found applications in other areas. Do you put the Commanche in b or c? Maybe b, but who knows how much of that research will find its way into other aircraft? How about the Crusader artillery system?

Have you, by any chance, done the same sort of %GDP comparison for military R&D spending? I'll save you the bother - the gap between the US and other nations is even wider there. And that's simply because we recognize that the one of the two things that have made our military the most effective in the world is our commitment to R&D (the other thing being training and doctrine).

So whine about that helicopter "boondongle" if you will, but consider that it's hard to tell the difference between a "boondongle" and a breakthrough in advance.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Donny Smith]

>Guatamala has the worst literacy rate, shortest life expectancy, lowest GNP. And the biggest army.
>Costa Rica has best literacy rate, longest life span and best GNP per capita. Costa Rica has NO ARMY.

Yeah, the U.S. has a huge army, high literacy rate, long life span and high per-capita GNP.

So?

Re:Good Pricing in India

[rmayes100]

Russia's not on there...

Re:Good Pricing in India

[ImaLamer]

Catholic and other private schools get to cherry pick the best students. It's much easier to teach smart kids.
No matter what your criterea is if a school can get to pick who goes and who does not they will always win against a school that has to take everybody.

Catholic schools can not "cherry pick" students based on their intelligence. They can remove them for bad behaviour, but not for being "dumb".

The problem in many public schools is deeper than being smart or stupid. Bad schools, meaning dirty, falling apart schools result in worse test grades. It's been proven over and over again.

Many times it has more to do with psychology than genius. Look at things such as Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Public schools, because of the way they were formed, barely meet the saftey need, and never the esteem need. Students, as the humans they are, are never "complete".

Public schools shouldn't be abandoned, but they need to be re-worked from the ground up. The people involved need to realize that the students are more the pupils and realize that they are human beings.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[fbjon]

Just to correct the information, according to Lonely Planet the minimum service time for men is 6 years, but obviously it can be longer (and probably is in many cases). Also, according to stories from refugees, women serve too, I think some similar period of time.

But apart from the nitpicking, it's certainly as you imply. North Korea is not a country that can be included in any comparison. It's off the scale in fscked-up-ness.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

"Catholic schools can not "cherry pick" students based on their intelligence. They can remove them for bad behaviour, but not for being "dumb"."

What? No catholic shcool I know admits everybody who wants to go there. They get to pick who goes there. Of course they area aldready filtering out the poorest of the people by charging for the school in the first place. If a poor person wants to go to a catholic shcool they have to prove that they are exceptional.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[killjoe]

Actually I think nukes are old school. Al quada is pretty close to a real chemical weapon. So much easier to make, transport and detonate.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[ImaLamer]

Do you really want a system where 75% of all schools in the US shut down and where you have to constantly find a new school for your kids to go to?


No, I don't want that system. I support the public schools, I'm just pointing out their shortcomings. As I said, NCLB was supposed to fix this but has created overcrowding in "good" schools. This will of course lead to "good" schools becoming "bad" schools.

Matt Groening said it best... "school prepares you for life by teaching you to sit quietly at your desk doing exactly what you are told"

That is the problem too. David Tyack said "...urban education in the nineteenth century did more to industrialize humanity than to humanize industry". It's the idea of educational "institutions" that ruin our children's lives.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[ImaLamer]

No, no no.

I don't want schools to become competitive to the point where they face closure for being 'bad'. I just wanted to point out that even with good results people aren't guranteed to keep their jobs.

No, I don't think the US is the first country to develop public schools, but those are the schools I'm concerned with (of course). Our history in public schools started as I said; they were founded after priciples developed at mental asylums. And that isn't my 'opinion' that is the opinion of Pedro Noguera of Harvard. And pretty much a fact. Schools main purpose is to keep the kids quiet so they can be 'learned on'. The second purpose of schools, during their founding years in New England, was to Americanize newly immigrated Europeans. This caused problems that still exist today. We pay too much attention to indoctrination and not enough attention to actual instruction.

Thinking of my local public schools I cringe when thinking about the administration. Not principles, but people that never set foot inside a school. They are bueracrats plain and simple. They mandate changes for classes they know nothing about and much of the class time after such a change is wasted on listening to teachers complain (even when I was in the third grade I heard these problems).

The board has caused so many problems that no one is willing to support them anymore. Levies are never passed because people have written them off. I understand that the bueracrats are needed but they need to change their tunes in order to get public support. For god sakes, people with kids in school even vote against levies because they never see the results. The money never makes it to the school.

Read the links posted in my original comment. You need to know that it's more complicated than it seems. NCLB has failed because there is no way it will work. It's Bush that supports closing 'failing' schools. Why bother fixing them.

I'm just ranting and not making sense so I'll stop.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Free_Meson]

Nope, I just assumed that it was obvious that if your government didn't spend about 400 billion dollars a year on the military, then that money could be spent on something else. Assuming that they ploughed even some of that budget into education rather than explosives, then we can conclude the american public would be better off. That's logic. The only justification is if you really think the US needs to spend hundreds of billions of dollars more than everyone else on its armed forces to ensure it's citizen's safety. I think it is equally clear that it doesn't.

You still failed to make a cogent argument. You need to state a claim and back it up with evidence. While it may seem obvious to you that spending $400B/y or so on an industry that wouldn't otherwise exist and employs Americans almost exclusively has no positive effects on the American economy, society, or culture, it is in no way obvious to most rational people. There is SOME benefit merely from spending money that wouldn't otherwise be spent. Government spending is one of the few controls the government can exercise over the economy, and it's a very strong stimulus (especially if it is deficit spending).

As for education, because there are competing state and federal funding sources for public schooling, it is far more likely that additional money supplied by the federal government would meet with a withdrawal of state, local, and private funding for public schools. In other words, no more would actually be spent on education in many cities and states as other priorities would arise that the state would value more highly per marginal dollar. States have a ton of money too and find a way to spend more than they take in... If states and localities thought that education needed more money and were willing to cut back in other areas, they would do so. Because they haven't cut back in other areas more, it's a sound assumption that additional money put into the system would result in negligible changes in school funding.

Many state lotteries were passed using the justification that the lottery money would go to education... well, when the lottery money rolled in the states kept the funding the same and spent the extra money elsewhere. The actual money from the lottery did go to education, but that was really just on the accountant's spreadsheet.

While you may be meaning well with this argument to spend more on education by harnessing the federal budget, in the end all you're really advocating is replacing a porkbarrel stimulus project that, in addition to stimulating the economy, provides a social benefit with an assortment of state-level porkbarrel projects which won't necessarily provide stimulus or a social benefit. While it may be good for a state senator's cousin that he gets a massive tax break to build a strip mall, for example, it's not clear that this provides the same stimulus or social benefit as military expenditure.

This, of course, doesn't even address the implicit flaw in your argument that additional spending on education would provide a benefit. I don't know if you've ever actually been to school (your "argument" is certainly not compelling enough to make that a foregone conclusion) but learning is largely the duty of the student. There's no "learning device" that teachers can hook up to a students head to force knowledge in. Students have to take the time to read and do their work, and if they don't do that there's no amount of money that will improve them as students. The state has a duty to provide a clean, air conditioned/heated (if necessary), orderly learning environment and teachers capable of guiding students in their quest to gain knowledge. The state does not have an obligation (nor should it) to see that every kid learns X. Currently, the state does a very good job of providing a legitimate opportunity for every kid to learn X, but in some districts it fails. In the majority of districts where a child does not have the benefit of a c

Re:Good Pricing in India

[be-fan]

And just why did those come into existance? They were created for national defense by those horrible capitalist industries.

Sorry to break this to you, but government subsidizing industries, even if they are capitalist industries, is still anti-capitalist. That is not to say that defense spending (to a degree) isn't legitimate, but rather that the larger your defense budget, the further you are from the capitalist ideal.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[Anonymous Coward]

We spend more money on the military so we can fight for your complacent asses. Remember WWII? Yeah, that was us too.

Re:Good Pricing in India

[h4rm0ny]

First off, yes, shockingly, Free_Meson, I have been to school. But aside from that you at least made an argument which is more than your predecessor did, so it's nice that someone took the time to defend their views rather than just screeching "anti-capitalist" at me.

But as I'm typing this so late after the story was current, I'm probably addressing this reply only to you so I'll be fairly brief.

You are entirely right that there is some benefit from Government spending on the military-industrial complex in terms of employment, but as a means of wealth distribution it's not very efficient. I'd just rather taxes were lowered in the first place. You should also consider whether the same effect could be achieved by ploughing the public money into a different industry and of course it could, so this is not an advantage that military spending has over any other form of spending. It's just an advantage of spending in general, so perhaps we could find something better to spend the money on.

If states and localities thought that education needed more money and were willing to cut back in other areas, they would do so. Because they haven't cut back in other areas more, it's a sound assumption that additional money put into the system would result in negligible changes in school funding.

I can't follow your reasoning here. You seem to assume infallible judgement on the part of the state government, that they are automatically willing or able to make budget cuts elsewhere to fund education and that additional money is irrelevant to the quality of education. Where is the proof that you insisted was so necessary to an argument at the start of your post?

You later use several strawman arguments about additional money being no good if kids aren't willing to learn and that there is more to the education debate than money. Both may be true, but neither shows that additional money wouldn't boost a school's effectiveness.

Just for reference, I would use extra money to hire additional teachers and decrease class sizes. I know from experience that this would have a positive effect.

I'll leave it that now. If you read this, it would be nice if you reply just so that I know you have done so.

-H.

Heh India has outsourcing problems too

[Facekhan]

We get to laugh cause jobs are being outsourced from India as its economy improves to countries where people will work for even less. In 50 years we may reach a point where there is at least something resembling a middle class in nearly every country. On the other hand we will probably all be working for a single megacorp/world government that lojacks us at birth.

Re:Heh India has outsourcing problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

As this article clearly proves, we no longer have to worry about jobs being outsourced to India, as India itself is now outsourcing jobs....into sppppaaaaaceeee.

Re:Heh India has outsourcing problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

ALERT: Bad attempt at FUD detected

Outsourcing in general is such a fucking miniscule proportion of the American economy that it shouldn't even be discussed. But because Americans have (rightly or wrongly) turned into bigger xenophobes after 9/11 it gets more than its fair share of attention. Get over it. Outsourcing isn't going to cause you any pain. And I have yet to see even ONE genuine statistic that shows what a harmful effect outsourcing is having on your economy.

Oh fuck.

[CGP314]

Great, I just started to get my teaching certificate at King's College this week and the Indians have started to outsource my job : \


-Colin

Re:Oh fuck.

[vishmaster]

We have to remember that distance education is always a step-child compared to in-class one-on-one teacher-student interaction - Yes - its a major step forard for all Indian kids who cant afford any kind of education - but I dont think we can really outsource teaching that soon - there are important elements of personal attention and interaction that are missing from remote educational systems like these. So dont worry about losing your job any time soon !

Re:Oh fuck.

[polecat_redux]

The thing that really bothers me about outsourcing jos to India isn't necessarily the outflux of "American jobs", but the level of service that one can expect when they get a $3/hour ESL Indian on he phone that knows nothing about the products they are representing. I have encountered this situation on a handful of occasions in the past few months, and I must say that it is rather disconcerting. People thought that most companies don't give much thought to customer service *before* this paticular trend, and now it is only getting worse.

Re:Oh fuck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, I just started to get my teaching certificate at King's College...

Which "King's College?" Are you sure there wasn't a burger on the sign out front?

Re:Oh fuck.

[WIAKywbfatw]

Which "King's College?" Are you sure there wasn't a burger on the sign out front?

Hint: there's a world full of other countries and other universities beyond the 50 states. And, in some of those universities, you can get a real education.

By the way, if your own education had given you any sort of basic research skills, or if you weren't so damn lazy, then you'd know that he's talking about King's College, London. You'd be able to guess that from googling "King's College, but in this case you could say that that's the place for sure simply by looking at the guy's Slashdot journals, which point to his detailed blog.

Perhaps the reason why you can't do these simple things is because the only place that you graduated from was McDonalds U?

Re:Oh fuck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehe, never thought of london, was thinking of my city, halifax canada, which also has a king's college(im not that other dick btw)

Re:Oh fuck.

[militiaMan]

$3/hr is good money in India. Remember the government set exchange rate with India. It is more like $30/hr in earning power. I wish I made that much in earning power during the boom much less now. Idiots are everywhere. Since when did government regulated exchange rates mean fair trade.

Here in the US

[the_skywise]

Edusat means Channel 1.

It's a weird irony that it's cheaper to send up a satellite than it is to build schools to support everyone.

Re:Here in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

We orbit the satellites. We gravitate towards them.

Re:Here in the US

[drinkypoo]

It's a weird irony that it's cheaper to send up a satellite than it is to build schools to support everyone.

That's progress, baby. It'll be cheaper in a few years or decades :P to give all those people a PDA with a mesh network so you don't even need a satellite.

Re:Here in the US

[goneutt]

I just RTFA and the numbers come to $53 million, $20 mill for the satelite and $33 mill for the satellite.

I think the article says they'd have to build 10,000 schools per year to get classrooms needed. Even using quanset huts (or rather the local equiv) the cost of building the schools and staffing them would sail on past $53 mill really quick.

Re:Here in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. There are a lot of teachers in India at the village level but they lack the knowledge and training to teach more than the basics. Now they can have help in teaching science, history and other useful subjects that would be hard to do well if you cannot afford expensive books or materials. Its a way of leapfrogging that particular set of problems to some degree. They have schools, primitive in many cases, but this seems a good way to use resources to their maximum efficiency.

Books and better trained teachers will come out of this later. These are some good bootstraps.

Low-cost?

[slavemowgli]

65 USD may be low-cost for someone in the USA or Europe or so, but is it really for someone who doesn't have proper access to education yet? And of course, you need a TV set, too, which further adds to the costs attached to this... Don't get me wrong, I think that this is a good idea, but I don't see how it would help those who'd need help the most.

Re:Low-cost?

[KitFox]

This wouldn't be a family thing, from what I gather. This would be a "The school for the local community, which is funded by the government and by aid institutions, will have the uplink equipment to be able to get proper teaching materials and courses without worrying about the espense of porting live instructors out." Ie, instead of having a living person, being paid and eating food, and limited to what knowledge they themselves have and can get ahold of, suddenly you can set up an insta-classroom with any number of instructors, subjects, etc, for $65 plus ongoing power consumption costs.

Re:Low-cost?

[JFitzsimmons]

No. You can't just air drop these things in the field and expect people to know how to set them up, troubleshoot them, and most importantly, learn from them. They are a teaching aide that can be sent deep into the field where technology isn't at the highest but still have access to a host of important teaching material.

I'm taking a CISCO course where the course material is hosted on the internet, and you either need a teacher or a third party source for some stuff because some stuff just isn't covered/is poorly covered/I have questions about/etc. And this is me already being able to read. Literacy isn't something that you can just learn from a repatative voice and pictures on the screen. It can most certainly help though.

Re:Low-cost?

[MHleads]

And of course, you need a TV set, too, which further adds to the costs attached to this...

You will be suprised to know that 50+ percent households in India have TV and 60% of these households have cable connections!

Anyway, the number of TVs do not matter. Here is why.

This virtual classroom concept is not new, per se. Currently some institutes do offer such distance education program. They open centres in the towns, with population of approx 20-30K, where they share the infrastructure such as TV, camera, phones. The students visit these virtual classroom as per the schedule.

This was being done at small scale. But a dedicated satellite, makes me say, wow!

Re:Low-cost?

[metlin]

Hmm, you've apparently not been to a developing country.

In most developing countries, there are adult literacy programs that people attend -- and force their children to attend. Why? For the simple reason that they do not want their kids to lead the same shitty life that they do.

This is a wide-spread phenomenon, and something that quite correlates to a large chunk of the population from the underdeveloped areas moving into the cities.

And btw, electric power is provided FREE of cost to most farming communities in some states in India -- to help them with things like running the irrigation pumps and the like, as well as to encourage them to start using things like the radio and television.

Progress and better living for your progeny can be a very motivating thing. Especially in a closely family-knit culture like India.

Re:Low-cost?

[AmVidia HQ]

It's as a communal installation, and is definitely cheaper than individually sending out your kids to schools "in the cities".

This is a good thing happening in India. Good to see a lot of innovation and development in poorer countries.

Re:Low-cost?

[tovarish]

not true as can be seen here the number of tvs in india equals 63 million for a 1000 million people. as shown here in india the reach for non-cable tv is 42% while for urban areas its 69% and rural is 33%

Re:Low-cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every family doesn't have to spend $65. Villages can pool together money to buy a shared receiver.

Satellite broadcasting is probably the best way to reach the remote areas.

Re:Low-cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

In most developing countries, there are adult literacy programs that people attend -- and force their children to attend. Why? For the simple reason that they do not want their kids to lead the same shitty life that they do.


Ever heard of the relapse symdrome ? All they teach them is to somehow scribble their name on something and once thats done they are branded as "literate". Thats how the literacy rate is jacked up on paper. In the meantime, these "literates" have nothing to maintain their literacy with and soon lapse into illiteracy.

And btw, electric power is provided FREE of cost to most farming communities in some states in India -- to help them with things like running the irrigation pumps and the like, as well as to encourage them to start using things like the radio and television.

Only a few states in the northwest where farmers recklessly abuse that priviledge to run other electronic appliances, a huge burden to the tax payers.

Re:Low-cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can bet the number of tv sets in India is much more than a low 63 million. I don't buy that the figure is 50% but it can be 1/3 easily. BTW, having 1/3 of the people with tv's is not a big deal since many of the millions with tv's actually live in slums in horribly filthy condition with no running water, sewage and such.

Where Can I Get One?

[LuYu]

Where can one buy one of these $65 receivers? I figure the signal probably reaches about half of the globe, so mostly anybody in Asia should be able to get the signal, right?

Re:Where Can I Get One?

[Baricom]

I'm a bit hazy on this, but my understanding is that you can focus the transponders aboard a satellite into relatively narrow areas - the narrower the focus, the stronger the signal. The article seems to confirm this:

All but one of the KU-band transponders will be dedicated to specific regions of India, while the rest of the transponders will provide blanket coverage for the country.

Re:Where Can I Get One?

[tarunthegreat2]

Unfortunately that's not the case, but it used to be. The older generation of satelites had a much broader footprint, and if you're living in Asia (like me), you'll remember that there only used to be one beam of STAR TV available for the entire Asian region (meaning that millions of Chinese cried out in pain at their first exposure to Bollywood :-), and a lot of Indians tried to figure out the deeper meanings behind Canto-Pop). But eventually technology progressed, and there are now no less than 5 different beams, which means that the STAR TV we get in India is drastically different from the that available in China, Japan, The Middle East e.t.c.

First America outsourced its jobs to India

[Anonymous Coward]

Now it's outsourcing its inspiration, ingenuity and "can-do" spirit to India.

Next up: Outsourcing our "world's technological leader" status to India.

Re:First America outsourced its jobs to India

[tarunthegreat2]

Oh for God's sake. let go of that pride somewhat, and instead of viewing India as a competitor, why not think of it as a gift to have a country that is halfway across the world from you, with 1 billion people, who doesn't hate your fucking guts and isn't trying to blow up your citizens with its nukes, and happens to be a democracy - a system which is comprehensible to Americans? Why not push for some sort of partnership, technological, business or other which ay fuel more jobs for all of us. India is in desperate need of infrastructure, and political will. Try and find ways to help India get that, and make some money in the process. I remember somebody beforehand who said that India's market is closed to American goods. That's bullshit. American companies don't consider India a market lucrative enough for their products. I used to be a former employee of Amazon.com, and I got the opportunity to ask Jeff Bezos (circa 2000) when he was gonna start up Amazon India, and his response was to look at me quizzically like India was about as close to America as the distant star Vega and say "It's not on our top 10 list of things to do at this point". Then sometime early this year, eBay (whom Amazon considers a competitor) went and bought Baazee, and has thus stolen a lead on Amazon. Instead of saying trade is one way between India and America to India's ultimate benefit, why not try and develop the Indian market so that you can sell your products there? India WAS a closed market, but that was way back in 1991. If American companies aren't going to India now, it's because they don't want to go and do the hard work. They'd rather find a new way to sell chewing-gum flavoured toothpaste to a bunch of Europeans. Unilever, a dutch company involved in the sale of Household goods (like P & G) wanted to sell Shampoo in India. But of course being a low income country, they couldn't figure out how to do it. Then one of their marketing suits realized that instead of selling the shampoo in large bottles, it should be repackaged into small single-use plastic satchets. The reason was that most of the Indians never had large amounts of money on them but they could afford the small and cheap satchets. End result, they ended up selling a shitload more shampoo than they ever imagined. Find a way to sell something to a 1 billion people, and you won't be bothered about losing a few thousand jobs to them. Heck all of you have degrees, you can read and write. How hard can it be?

Re:First America outsourced its jobs to India

[TheSync]

Amen, brother! The world will be a much better place when the Indian GDP per capita is equivalent to the US one.

Obligatory

[JFitzsimmons]

Does it run Linux?

Re:Obligatory

[Cyclone_TBW]

Well if it runs Windows make sure it's not in a geo-sync orbit over my house.

Re:Obligatory

[polecat_redux]

Not to worry. Any Windows-based satellite will always crash into the Blue Sea of Death. You're safe.

Re:Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

(only because it's begging to be said)

wow!! imagine a beowulf cluster of these!!

Re:Obligatory

[Efinel]

Does also the Beowulf cluster joke apply here ?

Re:Obligatory

[wikinerd]

You mean GNU/Linux, right?

i hope the implementation works out well

[Anonymous Coward]

there have been local projects in rural india where small pilot projects have been hugely successful. weather forecast for fishermen in quite a few places. the indian fishermen have small boats & cant afford GPS. hence they benefitted enormously from the satellite + MET office. farmers in villages have taken to drought predictions/ rain forecast in many arid zones. the sub continent is really unique with different weather conditions, different levels of affluence, religions, languages. etc. also complicating the problem is the presence of close to a million villages (there are 700,000 of them). in this regard, satellite is truly a tool that could be used. there are pilot projects running in IIT for low cost VSATs, and cheap telecom tools for tech to enter into villages. already, the government run telecom giant has penetrated the villages with mobile that gets access at a pittance. just wanted to point out the complexities involved, most of /. wouldnt know the ground realities in india.

Re:i hope the implementation works out well

[t35t0r]

For 600 rupees/month that's like $15-$20 you can get a cell phone in india that can receive international calls. I think most people here use calling cards to call internationally and still pay anywhere from $40 - $60+/month for cell phones.

..go figure

Educational TV...

[eselgroth]

I am reminded of when -- back in the 50's -- the State of Indiana sent an airplane up in the air every school day. It circled around and around, broadcasting educational films to every school in the state that had a receiver. Ain't nuttin' new under the sun... -- TE

Re:Educational TV...

[Hobadee]

Uhm... Why would they do that? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just errect a huge radio tower? Having an airplane circle would be pretty expensive - fuel, pilot, radio transmission operator, whatever else they needed. Only advantage I see is that you wouldn't have buildings or mountains interfering with the radio waves, but then again, Indiana isn't really known for either of those.

Re:Educational TV...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps it was a "Pilot project;-)"

In 50 years...

[Anonymous Coward]

it is much more likely that we will be welcoming our Indian/Chinese Overlords.

Re:BENEDICT ARNOLDS OF THE OPEN SOURCE MOVEMENT

[shpoffo]

what kind of weird FUD is this? Anybody?

Bi-Directional?

[KitFox]

What I am wondering is whether this is a two-way link. It's not specifically stated in the article that it is, however some things in the article inmply such a situation. Specifically the fact that it makes claims about "each link catering for up to 200 classrooms". If it were just a broadcast bird, I'd expect that anybody in the signal range could nab the signal off the air and use it. But if classrooms have uplinks, then the channels would be limited in bandwidth.

If the classrooms have return uplinks, then this project makes much more sense than the current "Education alongside other functions", because two-way communications for students can be very important, and the multipurpose satellites would not be well-suited to the uplink needs of the classrooms themselves.

Low cost?

[Geburah]

"The educational programmes can be viewed on any television set through a simple low-cost receiver costing about $65."

In India average urban household income is estimated at US$2,847, while also having an average household size estimated around 5.07 people.

Thats like you feeding a family of five on $7.50 a day.

My point being, $65 is not "low-cost" for this part of the world, whether it be schools or familys purchasing this technology.

---------------
Source

Re:Low cost?

[RALE007]

Can you at least *try* to grasp that currency conversions aren't one for one? Just because X currency converts to 7.50 USD doesn't mean jack about what it can buy or what its worth in its native land.

Re:Low cost?

[Bill_Royle]

It sounds to me like the boxes will be used in existing classrooms, albeit in remote areas. Thus, 20-30 people might be in a classroom watching a single communal TV.

Reminds me of that movie "Mosquito Coast", actually.

One way or the other, this is a great move by India. The US has some programs like this, but it'd be nice if we focused more on it.

Re:Low cost?

[0x0d0a]

His food comparison is BS, sure.

However, the comparison to the $65 set is reasonable.

Re:Low cost?

[JaredOfEuropa]

Thats like you feeding a family of five on $7.50 a day. My point being, $65 is not "low-cost" for this part of the world.

By that (flawed) calculation, the receiver costs the same as what they pay for 9 days of food. Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Re:Low cost?

[militiaMan]

$7.50 is $75.00 in India. Exchange rates are not set by market you idiot. So much for equal trade.

Re:Low cost?

[tovarish]

actually that figure would be more like 7.50*5=37.50. The World Bank shows that the GNI per capita for India is 2,880$ with purchasing power parity (PPP) as opposed to simple dollar figure of 530 showing a multiple of approx 5.

Re:Low cost?

[militiaMan]

The people I know in India say it ranges from 7 to 12 times the dollars buying value for all domestic products. The WB is including the cost of expensive imports that most Indians don't buy.

Re:Low cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

At that rate, average Indian has an income of 2847/5.07 = 561.5 USD which is about 25k Indian Rupees per year or 2100 Indian rupees per month. Unfortunately, India is a land of collosal economic disparities so this "average" means nothing. If Bill gate's 55 billion $ is combined with the remaining 290 million people of US, then the annual income of each unemployed US male/female would go up by about $190/year. Basically, averages could be deceiving.

Re:Low cost?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right that for a single family in India $65 isn't "low cost". The receiver will in most cases be bought by the "Panchayat" (a grass-roots government that exists in almost every village in India and is (supposed to be) funded by the central govt.) and at least 20 - 30 people will watch it then. So it will work out ok. Many villages already have people with TV sets. There are still a huge number of isolated pockets, though and it will take a while before everything is covered.

What I couldn't figure out is whether or not the satellite is gonna have radio broadcast. Radio is a LOT cheaper and much easier to use. And many people are likely to have them already for listening to the news or cricket commentary ;)

Its good to see a country spend $20 million on an educational satellite :) To be frank, the US needs some education. The complete ignorance of world issues by so many people here is quite shocking sometimes.

See where offshoring has brought India?

[Money for Nothin']

Now India can educate its populace too, relatively-cheaply. Surely the anti-outsourcing crowd isn't opposed to people being educated -- right?

(except, that is, for those who don't mind publicly stating that their having a monopoly on being educated is a good thing b/c it raises their wages. Some of us like to think that having everybody educated beyond caveman levels has been good for the world; we also believe that further education is likewise, logically, a good thing. But some people don't agree, I know...)

Re:See where offshoring has brought India?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now ALL of the remote villages will be able to enjoy all of that educational singing and dancing!

On a more hateful note, I'm not as worried anymore about offshoring. In a few years, a major pandemic will decimate the populations of India and Asia. They will quickly find out the reasons the West has adopted building and zoning codes -- you can't have large amounts of the rural population living in animal filth without consequences.

troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to work

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like any post about anything happening in India seems to attract all the trolls like moths to a burning candle. The problem is not India - they are doing what needs to improve their lives; even if that means taking jobs for cheap from Americans. Capitalism and global economny are American ideas - we cannot ignore them because they are starting to hurt us now.
Instead of sitting on our fat behinds (yes, 60% of our country is overweight - that is a whole different problem), it's about time we figure out how to get the house in order before blaming others. Schools suck, college costs have sky-rocketed - have the stupid politicians fix this first.
All the jobs that were outsourced are history - manufacturing jobs in the last two decades to China, and now some of the tech jobs to India and elsewhere. And any amount of crying aren't going to get those back. Figure out what is relevant in today's economy and work towards using that to your advantage.

That was my point...

[the_skywise]

The articles' numbers say 35% of a billion people can't read... so basically you're looking at a nationwide literacy program to handle 350 MILLION people.

It's nearly unimaginable that India has that level of scale that makes it more efficient to launch a satellite.

And yet, my local city government can't seem to figure out how to keep 13 high schools funded properly... (even though they claim they're raising taxes every year to do so...)

Re:troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to w

[JFitzsimmons]

If I hadn't wasted all my mod points, I actually would have used them modding up this AC.

Country Wide Classroom

[proudlyindian]

Since the late 1980s in india there was a concept on the govt channel DD called Country Wide classroom which covered topics like chemistry, physics, maths and various quizzes and it was quite fun

I wonder..

[hookedup]

..if australia would find use for such a system?

having such a spread out population (besides the coastal areas) may require just such a thing...

not really sure how much of a space program they have though..

Re:I wonder..

[mattjb0010]

There's the school of the air.

not really sure how much of a space program they have though..

Woomera satellite launches in the past, plus talk of new launch sites

Re:I wonder..

[DoorFrame]

They're down under. They can't use satelites, they'd be underground... in order to get the thing up in the air they'll need to use submarines.

Re:I wonder..

[shplorb]

We have the school of the air for kids living on remote stations. It used to be 2-way radios, but now it's all 2-way satellites with video conferencing and stuff.

My family has friends who run a sheep station up in the north of SA, and I can remember when we used to go up camping there we'd stop in to say hello, etc. and seeing where their 'kids went to school'. It was a small hut separate from the homestead with a 2-way radio running off a car battery, because they'd only run their diesel generator for about 6 hours per day or something. (I'd imagine they'd have a solar system installed now though.) Talk about isolation!

But still, to show how much their parents valued the education of their children, when their kids were older they bought a house in the closest city - some 500KM away - and the kids would go down with their mum for a few weeks at a time to go to school. Many parents on stations send their kids to boarding schools in the cities when they reach high-school age.

As for a space program... bwahahahaha.... come on! Just today the Prime Minister announced 10 million for a loser footy club whilst the scientists that want a bit more than that for that telescope in Antartica are still begging for money! Yep, the clever country indeed.

Model distance education programme in India

[MHleads]

This should be the first distance learning programme for higher education in India.

Re:Model distance education programme in India

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction:
http://www.iiitb.ac.in/ is the correct URL, as referred above.

something else...

[Drantin]

everyone commenting so far seems to envision that everyone in each of those villages is supposed to have their own television and receiver... How about if just a few people that live near each other help pay for the cost together and share it?
Maybe that's what the original intent of the sattelite was?

Re:something else...

[ninthwave]

$65 dollars is a lot of money in rural India. I think the idea is to set it up in the schools to reduce the cost of educational materials to the rural schools. At the same time allowing anyone access. They did try something like that in America but didn't the advertisers turn it into a joke. I graduated right before I could be blessed with that system.

Re:something else...

[pk2000]

Statistics of India
78 TV sets per 1000 person in 2000

not for long

[Illserve]

If it's for education, I'm sure Bush will find some reason to have it knocked out of orbit.

Re:not for long

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, we may not have any sattelite stuff for education in America, but we *do* have corporate sponsored vending machines from Pepsi all over our highschools!

leapfrogging through tech!

[doonoop]

I find it touching, though it's actually so practical, that India has has the clarity of vision to invest in things like internet to remote regions and a freaking educational satellite to empower their populace. I don't know if their current surge in tech prowess is connected to that internet initiative. But my guess is that spreading knowledge before investing in so many other things (race to the moon?) will serve their nation well.

OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[rufusdufus]

I just bought my first copy of New Scientist off the rack today, the Sept 25 issue. I thought I was buying a magazine that took over where Scientific American left off, but after reading all the articles, I am shocked to find the quality of the science is abyssmal. Its like reading Pravda or the Enquirer only with a scientific sounding tone.
Computer scientists here can go look at the article "the jumble cruncher" that is a jaw droppingly stupid story about turing machines and physic with circular logic and proof by authority.
The cover story about randomness is also lame, a mathemetician basically says that hidden variables are real, the universe is deterministic and all the physicists and philosphers are just wrong because..well they are.
Anyway, is this magazine typicall this bad?

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[0x0d0a]

The universe is deterministic.

The question is just in how large of a system you define as encompassing the universe. :-)

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[rufusdufus]

Well, you said it, so it must be true! But what is your basis for this, as I'm sure you know, mainstream physics categorically denies this statement. So, some evidence would be nice.

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[jeif1k]

It's not a "source", it's a quick overview of topics done in a (for scientists) sensationalized format.

Realistically, no scientific journal is much better--every scientist tries to present their data in a sensationalized format, and the vast majority of published papers are irrelevant nonsense. In journals like Nature or Science, people just hide it a little better.

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[mikeage]

But... Pravda means truth... why would they lie?

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[amorsen]

Mainstream physics has shown with reasonable certainty that local hidden variable theories are impossible. However, it is impossible to disprove that there isn't some guy outside the universe with a predetermined list of "random" numbers who gets called whenever quantum mechanics need "randomness". You can (succesfully, IMHO) argue that this falls for Occam's Razor, of course.

Re:OT:Is New Scientist a credible source?

[0x0d0a]

Well, you said it, so it must be true! But what is your basis for this, as I'm sure you know, mainstream physics categorically denies this statement. So, some evidence would be nice.

rufusdufus, it's not a very strong statement.

Say God likes to influence events, make people do things -- we just include God in the system. I was just clarifying the situation, not trying to make some bold new claim. I was trying to point out that the question of whether the universe is deterministic isn't a very interesting question -- sure, we can consider it to be deterministic, if we like. We just make the rules complex and the system larger. :-)

So conflicted!

[IntelliTubbie]

My little Slashdot brain is about to pop! Are we supposed to be for this or against it? On the one hand, education for all is a good thing. But on the other hand, it's India, and they took our jaoerbs!

Cheers,
IT

Re:So conflicted!

[Anonymous Coward]

zen saying : Confusion is the a sign that we have learnt something new.

Paradox is confusing till you see the coin and not its sides.

Bullshit!

[skinfitz]

Yeah - SURE it's just for education - it will be a spy satellite in disguise! Probably carrying some nukes too in case Pakistan gets out of line.

Re:Bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

no need to have nukes within the satellites to attack pakistan, a shout is enough to nuke em

WRONG (Was: Re:Good Pricing in India)

[Anonymous Coward]

Nato (Western Europe + North America) was involced in Afghanistan as well, so all in all the figures are correct

UK was also part of the war in Iraq, but still has lower spendings

AI teachers

[kabrakan]

It seems like whatever education is going on will just be broadcasted information.. No different than the discovery channel. Is there going to be a physical teacher designated to the students, or will it be like a lecture format where the student merely listens to the instructor and doesn't interact? I always thought it would be a good idea to develop artificial intelligence to a point where a software teacher can understand questions about a given topic and have a knowledge base to give answers from. but maybe i'm just unrealistic:P

Exclusively for education, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, is that education as in "We'll teach Pakistan a lesson they'll never forget"? Hmmmmmm?

Re:troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to w

[killjoe]

Yes but they spent nearly a 100 million trying to educate their kids. It seems like they could have spent that money invading bangladesh or something don't you think. Clearly their priorities are all messed up.

It is geostationary

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a geostationary satellite. Spy satellites are low earth orbit ( ~900 km vs 36000 km ) and _much_ easier to launch than Geostationary Satellites

Have you seen their rocket specs?

[mangu]

Their India-designed rocket is able to send a two-ton satellite to geostationary orbit, which is a respectable achievement. Compared to the latest US-built Atlas rocket, which uses a Russian engine, it's clear which country is giving more emphasis to developing its technology. Instead of bemoaning all the technological jobs being exported to "third world" nations, American geeks should start wondering, if the biggest and most powerful rocket engine ever built is on display at the Smithsonian in DC, then why cannot the US aerospace industry build the most powerful rocket engine in use today?

Re:Have you seen their rocket specs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who says the US aerospace industry can't build the most powerful rocket engine in use today? Just because you can, doesn't mean you want or need to.

Re:troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to w

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD Parent UP! +100 Insightful!

What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

So why do the Indian family keep pressuring their children to study, and get college degrees only get a job running cash machines?

Outsourcing is nice, but that's a small fraction of the population.

According to CBC http://www.cbc.ca/india/schedule.html
http://media.cbc.ca:8080/ramgen/cbc.ca/thecurrent/ media/200405/20040525thecurrent_sec3.rm

You need a degree just to work at the cashier in India!

I have a feeling that North America is fast getting that way - The best way to prevent under employment is not to make people ambitious.

Also...

[nwbvt]

Those are average salaries, not entry level salaries. Public schools generally pay teachers who have been there longer more than new teachers. So the blue hair who taught you Math and who still uses an abacus probably gets paid more than the young Physics teacher who can relate to the kids and is thus able to teach them something.

busses

[zogger]

Nice point on the busses. I wonder how much the school districts could save by eliminating the brainwashed addiction to professional team sports that starts in the public schools by running stealth minor league farm teams for them. A lot of bussing goes on with those activities. It has to be a lot in terms of dollars spent per year. I'd much rather see those sorts of activities be entirely paid for by the appropriate parents and the "leagues" instead of funding it with enforced property taxes and round robin income tax to washington, skim half to run a bureaucracy that is basically just a jobs program, then return it back to the schools.

I'm not against athletics, I'm against subsidising profitable multi billion a year private business, which is what team sports are in this nation. Kids can have fun and get exercise without that needless expense, and IMO, society in general would be a lot better off without the addiction to those sports. It also has an effect of encouraging jingoism, look at the rhetoric, this (insert city school) team needs to "beat" the other team, destroy them, etc. Any local paper you can see how much of an addiction it is usually.

I've also noticed an additional phenomenon. there's an elementary school up the street from me. Half (I am generally speaking, seems like a ton of cars though for a small school) the kids get driven to and from school by their parents now, you can see the cars lined up out the school property and up the street twice a day. The busses still run though, but half empty. At the nearest high school it's similar, but it'sthe students themselves that drive to schoolin huge numbers, but again, they still run the busses not very full, I've seen them taking off after school, not nearly as full as they could be.

Re:busses

[NeoSkandranon]

School buses will continue to run non-full because of this: Stopping the busses from going would leave a significant percentage of kids high and dry as to transportation to and from school. Buses are there for EVERY child, but the administration cannot help if parents don't care to utilize them. Personally I rode a buss from 3rd grade until I was old enough to drive and couldn't wait to get off it, but some kids have parents who work afternoons, dont have cars, live WAY out in the sticks and so forth

Re:busses

[zogger]

ya, I rode one to, for years and years. The next to the last bus stop out of town. 3 hours a day roundtrip, snow season even longer, 5 days a week in the bus saddle. If I had it to do over again I would have begged to be homeschooled. The best I was able to pull off, starting in 9th grade I did almost all independent study outside of the other kids, as I had already achieved the high school level credits needed for graduation, but I wasn't able to go to college then, none close by, too young to drive, parents not well off enough to pay for remote school and boarding, etc. So, we worked out a deal with the school administration and teachers, every 6 weeks I had an oral interview plus I turned in one research paper per class, for most classes anyway, a few I did "normally", math especially, although there I was placed in a class with only a few other kids, as there were a few math whizzes there. That ride on the bus was dismal, too bumpy to read on old gravel roads without getting a headache, it was mostly a waste of time.

Re:busses

[Anonymous Coward]

Athletics is about building better soldiers. Football is a very good game for that.

Re:busses

[zogger]

I pretty much agree with that.

One receiver per classroom/school

[Moderation abuser]

You don't need one per person. It's really quite a good idea, the UK has a similar "Open University" (http://www.open.ac.uk/) where lectures are broadcast late at night on the BBC channels.

In addition to whatever....

[zogger]

... the states and local governments extract for education, the current US federal budget for the department of education is 63 billion dollars. That is not a trivial sum. If it was entirely up to the states and local governments, all that money could be used, and an entire federal department eliminated. The states and local governments already have local administrations running that could deal with it, and if we eliminated the federal effort, all the money wasted on just running what is in essence a redundancy could be eliminated. It makes no sense to extract income taxes, filter and skim them massively through washington, then return only part of the money right back to where it came from. It's a skim, and it is part of the self perpetuating federal government bloat. It didn't exist when I was a kid, and it didn't seem to matter, we had the same schools, just run much cheaper. They created an agency or department that isn't needed. This costs money. They then say "wow, our expenses are going up so we need more tax money" Lather rinse repeat.

The federal governments primary duty appears to be perpetuating itself as a growth industry, any ancillary effect is incidental to maintaining their make-work "jobs".

DD: National TV Broacaster of India

[proudlyindian]

go to http://www.ddindia.com/About+DD/About+DD+-+DD+Nati onal/DDNationalChannel.htm the national TV channel and right from its inception almost half a century back the emphasis has been on education rather than entertainment

Hello Class

[k_stamour]

Hello Class, My name is Kali from Dali, thank you for turning on your receiver. I will be you new American History Teacher, please turn to page 120. Today we look at the history of the American Presidency, from WWI to the current War. This segment brought to you by the GOP. Remember kids, no guns in school, out side....have fun! The young republican club will meet later today at 4 pm. Please have your receiver on by 3pm. Dyna Corp will announce a new School Principal at noon. And have your bus fuel fee ready for for the end of the month to avoid putting your parents in collection with Haliburton. Tonights Young Republicans Meeting topic will be :" Democrats: how spot, How to report" To nights meeting will be sponsored by The Carlyle Group: "Our mission is to be the premier global private equity firm, leveraging the insight of Carlyle's team of investment professionals to generate extraordinary returns across a range of investment choices, while maintaining our good name and the good name of our investors." Today class..... Jimmy, please do not block the web cam.... Thank you, also your mother will not be picking you up today after class....She will be staying late for "cross training" her new off shore co-workers!..How nice....

Re:Hello Class

[d474]

LOL - That is exactly what popped into my mind when I RTFA. I thought I was the only one thinking along the same lines......scary ideas

chicago public school teacher stats

[zogger]

check this out, ran a simple google search, this is the latest top news story, 38% of chicago public school teachers send their children to private schools. The article goes on to comment on the national trend, urban areas in particular are getting pretty high with similar actions. The teachers themselves are voting with their own money and action, taking their children out of the schools they supposedly support. Very telling in a variety of ways. I would agree that part of the reason is that the "elite" tend to go for the perpetuation of the "elite" class, but in other areas, I think it's just because a lot of local public schools have turned into anarchial mis managed dumping grounds, glorified daytime baby sitters.

well, here's one...

[zogger]

...easy enough to find, how about trade deficits? It used to be the USA was heavily into manufacturing, now that we shipped a lot of those jobs to china, we are running an annual trade deficit with them for goods to the tune of 141 billion dollars. Month by month it goes a little up or down, but the general year to year to year trend is up, always NOT in our favor.

We've had this scam "globalization" for decades now, and we have yet to have an economy where it approaches eveness, we always run a deficit with these second world nations we exported jobs to.

The biggest winners with globalization so far are CEOs and major stock brokerage concerns, the casino owners and riggers. and now, I don't count cheapert trinkets as being worthwhile, not when we are 73 TRILLION dollars in debt.

Re:well, here's one...

[Facekhan]

Its 7.3 Trillion not 73.

Re:well, here's one...

[zogger]

in other words, a cubic boat load. When it's that high, I doubt there's even any way to calculate it accurately. Lets call it virtually unpayable with the people currently working as the debtors.

Laudable achievement

[cOdEgUru]

This topic will soon be relegated to the archives and there is a good chance this post wont be read, but I have to say it for the sake of posterity (of future topics that is).

Education is good. Education teaches a child to think, to pick out his fights, his goals, his aspirations. Despite what Pink Floyd told us, education, atleast in the less developed corners of the world, is a must. Else we run the risk of religious dogma being fed to these children, we run the risk of them being taught by unscrupulous leaders who do not value scientific thinking, who seeks to find answers in the religious texts and lives in the past while sucking tomorrow's future down in the drain with them.

I am proud that India has been kicking it up a notch, in the field of education. When a country truly cares about the intellect of its citizens and aspires to leave its future generation with the power of thought, only then it can shine among the rest of the world. I only can hope Pakistan and other of its neighbours do the same. Religious education is good, in moderation. It should be balanced by education that teaches a child to question his beliefs and that of the society and to work towards making his life and that of around him, better.

The Western world should be glad for India and anyone else who decides to take such paths.

Re:Laudable achievement

[metlin]

Religious education is good, in moderation.

Eh? Care to explain that? Funny, for someone with a Carl Sagan quote on their profile to be making such a statement.

Re:Laudable achievement

[cOdEgUru]

I studied in a Convent school, went to Church every Sunday and went to Sunday school every Sunday afternoon. I turned out ok :).

Jokes aside, if the parents prefer, Religious education may be part of their kids upbringing, there is nothing wrong with that. State sponsored Religious education must be discouraged in a democracy. But then again, the same viewpoint may not be carried by a non-secular society. And we should not barge in trying to dictate to them how democracy works either.

There is nothing wrong with Religion, as long as you know where your freedom ends and someone else's rights begin. No religion preaches violence, even Islam doesnt. Every religion and its tenets are open to interpretation and unscrupulous men would find ways to interpret them to justify their actions, their beliefs.

Re:Laudable achievement

[metlin]

Well said, but I would like to rephrase your comment as - "Religious education in moderation need not necessarily be harmful" - rather than, "Religious education in moderation is good".

Ofcourse, I do realize that this is more of an opinionated and personal topic, but religion often tends to bring out an Us vs. Them attitude. I could see several problems with religion, but that's something that one can go on harping for ad infinitum, so I'll just say that teaching religion at an impressionable age imposes prejudices that a lifetime of science cannot quite cure.

I personally have nothing against belief in God - but I would not consider religion to be a means to that belief. The problem with religion is not violence, or even cultural beliefs - it's the way it is organized on the pretext of God :)

Ofcourse - it's again a question of such things as upbringing, beliefs and cultural factors - and it is something that people usually tend to be quite strongly prejudiced about (I'm too, so I do know!). But I just wanted to let you know that the statement that, "religious education is good" is not quite something that can be broadly claimed to be true - I'm sure you can appreciate where I'm coming from in making such a statement.

Just my two cents, and cheers! (btw, I spent half my childhood in Tvm, so I do know! :)

Compare US Satellite Launches

[Anonymous Coward]

Some Company will launch a satellite to educate consumers to make the "correct" purchases.

Another Company will lauch a satellite to spy on its citizens.

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[militiaMan]

They had a natural nuclear disaster that destroyed their main city in the B.C. era. They are just recovering from the destruction. They had glassware very early and many other advances not found anywhere else during the same time period. Then BOOM everything went into decline in India for 5k years.

Re:Low cost? Yes!

[brauwerman]

Playing with numbers:
Imagine an American city with houehold income $280,470, 100x your Indian example.

Would this city spend $6500 on an educational system for the ENTIRE community. Of course! Why,

Because it's INSANELY CHEAP.

65 families chipping in 0.05% of each houeshold's income to purchase as receiver for all-day educational programming. That's a bargain.

This is a low-cost access to a valuable resource, and I can't think of any reason to trash it besides knee-jerk superiority and ignorance, coupled with a lack of comprehension of basic mathematics.

I suppose I can understand the lack of comprehension of mathematics, if you have an American education, and not, say, and Indian education. :-p

Good Pricing in India-DARPA.

[Anonymous Coward]

How much of that "Billions" is going to agencies like DARPA? And how much of that will result in thing like "Radar", "Internet", "computers" and other useful inventions?

Everyone's talking like the money going into the military-industrial complex is a black hole. Much like we use to talk about the space industry.

Good Pricing in India-Free will.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Of course, international patent agreements pushed by the US may prevent that. ;)"

Picked up "voluntarily" by some countries. :) :)

Sweeping conclusions.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Realistically, no scientific journal is much better--every scientist tries to present their data in a sensationalized format, and the vast majority of published papers are irrelevant nonsense. In journals like Nature or Science, people just hide it a little better."

Sounds like someone's bitter. "Every scientist", "vast majority", "irrelevant nonsense". I doubt you have the credentials or reading budget, or even time to make that conclusion in any kind of rigerous fashion.

Re:BENEDICT ARNOLDS OF THE OPEN SOURCE MOVEMENT

[Sivaram_Velauthapill]

I guess it's an attack on open-source software by tying it to outsourcing...

A little

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on. I might agree with the "irrelevant" part, but most published papers aren't "nonsense", and equating New Scientist with Nature or Science (journals with a ~95% rejection rate and the highest impact factors in the world) is just ridiculous. New Scientist focuses mostly on very fringe science, mostly published in second- or third-rate journals without rigorous peer review, and with little supporting evidence by any standard. It used to be better, but it's gone downhill quite a bit in the last few years; it's quickly approaching "National Enquirer for science" status.

Sesame Street

[Anonymous Coward]

Will be around until Christ returns. Might as well tune into the son of a bitch, and learn something.

The entire nation of Mexico needs this same deal.

How do we know its more cost effective?

[Whyte]

So India has found a more cost effective way of educating the population.

Nice prediction, and honestly I hope its true.

But I think we would need some objective measurement before we can determine whether or not this is a more effective way of educating the public.

If there isn't effective cirriculum to be broadcast, it could end up being a massive waste of money.

Yeah, nuke capabilities, masquarading as EDU

[irf]

I'm not sure whether the so called edu sat
will serve India well.
If one deploys a transmitter, there ought to
be a receiver on the other end with an audience
which can partake of whatever is been transmitted.
India is a very poor country, however, because
of it's large population base, it can afford
such things as a nuclear arsenal, and a ballistics
infrastructure to deliver them. The sat which has
been deployed is nothing but a proof of concept
for furthering their nuke infrastructure.
It is ironic, that resources in poor countries
are diverted to such MAD schemes.
If I were in charge of India, I would worry about
feeding, emancipating, and educating my people,
and forming alliances with the civilized world,
this would be my best weapon.
All the exposure of India i.e. the outsourcing, etc..
are nothing but the l33t thereof, the rest of
Indians are very poor, and illiterate.
enough said..
and no hard feelings

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[frodo from middle ea]

At best you are trolling and at worst you really take your comments seriously ? In either case you couldn't be more mislead about your views of Indian Culture.

Your view seems to be, western culture is good, eastern culture is bad. We Indians were doing just fine, till the western world came to zindia in mid 15th century. The current problems that India deals with have a lot to do with the 250 years + of slavery under the British rule rather than its culture. India has always been on the radar of the world conquerors, dating back to alexander in the BC era, to the moughal and turks in and around 1000 A.D to all kinds of europeans from 17th to 19th century.

And yet the Indian culture has survived and thrived . It has gracefully accepted all other cultures and yet maintained its own Identity.

Industrialization and world domination may be your idea of progress , but not every ones. Maybe family values and education take priorities in other cultures.Did you know, that the first book written on Classical Music in India dates back 3000 years. We had universities where not only locals but students from as fas as china and other oriental places used to study.

There is a old adage in Sanskrit, one of the oldest languages and mother of most modern day indian languages. May be it will sum up the importance of Knowledge in Indian Culture

A King is respected in his Kingdom, But a learned one is respect everywhere.

Don't give the Neo-Cons any ideas!

[d474]

I can just see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Karl Rove and Ashcroft sitting around a circle plotting...

"You know, we could do away with Public Schools all together, launch about 5 of these here Indian-type satellites in geo-synchronous orbit over this great nation of ours, and start beaming down "The New Education". We control the content, you know, Evolution is out, Creationism is in, that sort of thing. And that's just the beginning!!! Think of the revenues that could be generated by embedding advertising directly into the educational content...."

Some call me paranoid, but what do you call it when it actually happens, a "good idea"??

Re:Don't give the Neo-Cons any ideas!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your comment sucks! :)

Nothing New

[amemily]

Educational Service District 101/STEP Star Network in Spokane Washington has been broadcasting educational/distance learning television for years over satellite - and this school year (2004-2005) they are offering the programming for free to anyone who can pick it up.

Re:troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to w

[Anonymous Coward]

capitalism with fair democratic nations are american ideas. capitalism with communists, terrorists or any other despot are not american ideas.

Re:oh yay

[Zareste]

Y'know this is actually becoming interesting, isn't it? Troll-mods have now lost a total of four whole points in order to flame anonymously; talk about cutting your nose in spite your face.

Ah well I'm sure this'll come up in meta-moderation, and a few mindless kids will be put in their place. In which case, hey, maybe this is a good thing.

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[frodo from middle ea]

Show me one country in the world that has not have some form of discrimination or another. India has its problems , like any other country.

Please point where in my OP did I mention that "India is noble and west is fucked up". Infact the GP had the exact opposite view and I was merely pointing him to some facts.

Talking of meeting only brahmin indians in US, How come I haven't met any Native Americans in US , for the last 5 or so years that I have been here. Care to explain that cowboy ?

Outsourcing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! NASA is planning to outsource their satellite launches to India!

Next thing you know, U.S President will be outsourced too!

Random Haiku of the Day

[grifter7]

user scrambles, wage
surfs for porn mystically
mystically, deep

Re:troll alert!! move your a**es and get back to w

[Anonymous Coward]

And your point is ????!
Last time I checked, India IS the largest democracy in the world. Hell, they even managed to conduct elections with electronic voting machines recently -- which we here are still screwing around with.
They are being capitalist - create products and services with whatever is considered acceptable quality and as cheap as possible.
Where are the communists, terrorists or despots in this picture ?!

Re:Another Indian Bigot

[Anonymous Coward]

What is "special" about Indians is that they are fond of fixing the year at 800 B.C. and then comparing India and the West.

Many totally dumb "educated" Indians do that.

The grandparent post is talking about today's culture in India and the West. The millions of Indians fleeing to the USA says that Indian culture is horrible. Its product, Indian society, is a horrible place in which to live.

It is a horrible place to live and die, given the forms of life and death involved there. And much of it is the fault of Indians themselves. Some of it is due to Western capitalist exploitation too.

What is really disgusting about Indian people is that those who are privileged (i.e. with the money and connections) enough to flee to the USA refuse to assimilate into American culture. These bastards should be kicked out of the USA.

Actually, they have the freedom not to assimilate. Thats why this is "land of the free".

Again, look at the grandparent post. It states clearly that the Indians have killed so many female infants that the male-to-female ratio for babies is 1.20. The normal ratio is 1.05. This state of crap in India is unrelated to poverty. No amount of high-technology can fix this crap.

You are wrong in both cases. For India the ratio is 1.07 males/female. For the US its about 0.97 male(s)/female (2004 est.). Anyway, you are right though that no amount of high tech will fix this. In fact, high tech is adding to this problem.

College costs

[gr8_phk]

The government thinks offering student loans will help increase the number of educated people. Really, all it does is allow schools to charge more because there is more money available. Many students buy into it and end up in major debt by the time they finish - if they finish. Stop the subsidies and the prices will fall.

And now they'd like to cover prescription drugs - i.e. hand over money to drub companies and raise prices for everyone.

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, how after independence we managed to have a woman prime minister, a lowest caste prime minister and president. And the fucking US of A in 200+ years of independence hasn't even managed that. Ya, we had a fucked up medivial system so we are fixing it and have better results in 50 years that what you guys can manage in 200+.

The ratio of 1.20 is correct.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please read this shocking article. It indicates the ratio of male babies to female babies in China and India.

The number that you cite is 1.07. That is for the population as a whole, not just the babies.

Indian culture is a load of crap.

Mod this post up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod this parent post up! It is not a troll. It indicates facts.

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[Anonymous Coward]

The west is better at taking care of it's people after getting fat on looting coutries like India and China. I am sure India will take much better care of its people that the west once we rebuild all the wealth that was stolen from us.

That's why you need to compare India and west in the years before the looting.

There have been 1 or maybe 2 sati deaths in the past 10 years and even in the past they were very rare. Are you telling me that there have been fewer suicides or murders of women after their spouses have died in the west?

Re:Another Indian Bigot

[Anonymous Coward]

That is because they are escaping from the economic devastation carried out by the looting that the British and other European's carried out. Most Indian are rightly proud of Indian culture. That is what allows us to out-compete the west when the playing field is *level*. Go and compare the education level of European-origin and Indian-origin populations in US. Compare their relative incomes? Heck, compare the percentage of woman that work and the positions that they work it.

I have worked in tech for years and have seen only 1 white woman who is not a secretary, HR or layout designer. Every other woman is either East Asian or Indian. Why would these women want to adopt an "Western" culture? What is preventing white woman from doing higher paying jobs?

The issue is the rate of technology adoption vs shedding of medivial mindsets. In India and China they are happening as the same time. That means the preference for sons coupled with technology to select the sex of baby leads to imbalance in the sex ratio. They same was true in the west, they just did not have the technology to do anything about it. There was a NYT article about this recently.

I bet based on the speed of social change in India and China vs the west, in 50 years woman will be much better off in Asia than in America. Today in upper class families they probably already are in many ways.

You avoided the key point.

[Anonymous Coward]

The ratio of male babies to female babies in Vietnam is 1.05, which is normal. The Vietnamese do not have a medieval mindset, yet the Indians do.

You are correct on one point: Indians refuse to adopt Western culture, which created the wonderful society into which they want to flee.

Most Indian bigots, who reject Western culture but demand to enter the USA, believe that knowledge of engineering demonstrates the greatness of Indian culture. I fully support the idea of sending all the Indians without American citizenship back to India. They can then demonstrate their superiority over there.

The greatness of the USA was created by all its people, not merely engineers. Honest, working middle-class people with average knowledge of science managed to create a far greater society, a far more wonderful society, than Indians with advanced knowledge of science. India failed because of its rotten system of values.

Japan was an impoverished, resource-poor nation. Yet, after it embraced Western culture, it blossomed.

Indians are bigots. I have passed this particular thread to some American colleagues with influence on immigration policy. It needs to be changed.

Re:But how much for fixing Indian culture?

[Amritanshu]

Almost every country has suffered such exploitation in one form or the other take Japan totally devastated after WW-II germany,france those who were "free" were ruled by the rich and oppressed through other means,every nation has its scars.Even America was not there few hundred years ago and it still has its problem.history should be used for learning from mistakes don't use it for putting blames...

Very few people understand the importance of this project I stay in India although I haven't stayed in a village but some of my batchmates have told me stories about the kind opf hardship they had to go to get a decent education.Unlike west where the high school dropout rate is high...here that is not encouraged the only reason for dropouts are financial where ppl cannot afford to go to big cities/ colleges / to pursue there education...this something great for India.

Hmm.

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe you misunderstood the manner in which the post you are responded to was intended to be read.

EDUSAT homepage

[yodha]

EDUSAT homepage

where's it at?

[Anonymous Coward]

can you people get to the point?

where's the sat orbiting? what's the footprint?

what are the frequencies of the transponders, and are the streams encrypted?

Half of India has a TV

[SelvakumarGanesan]

The penetration of TV is more than you know. I suspect it is more than the availability of clean water in India (the table is confusing, figure it out for yourself).
Around half the households have television (includes rural India). Education through television will work.