Slashdot Mirror

New Scientist is a respected publication. For them to do this should cast doubts on other editors who might consider it. Namely I am thinking of sites like Indymedia.org whose purpose is to get their pieces out there and widely distribute. What better way to do that then to copyleft it in this manner? Then people locally could even print out the latest edition of their web site and distribute it locally in their neighborhood ... a "copyleft paper" ...

everytime some scumbag has done something wrong and they are hauled into court for it, unless it is some show trial (John Walker, OJ.. etc..) People get barred when there are some real juicy bits.

Take for example, the barring of the media during the Iran/Contra hearings when the talks turned to drug issues, in the name of national security.

My website has two very curious events..STORIES that were released in the mainstream Media right after the SOTU adresss.

Both Cheny and Bush have told Dachle and the rest of the Senate not to head any (planned) investigation into the events of 9/11.

Interesting. More juicy bits. The same thing with Enron, the whitehouse just flat out says: we will not give you what you are asking for, even if you use the law to try and obtain it.

It scares me that this kind of behavior is being used more and more in this country, and that it is seen as expected "normal" behavior.

propaganda arts

Ashcroft is afraid of TITS for christ sake.. Now I understand why

Also:

Activist site raisethefist.com raided and shut down by the FBI... last Thursday.

* 2002-01-27 00:27:10 Raisethefist.com Shut Down by FBI (yro,usa) (rejected)

I normally don't complain about my own rejected submissions, but this one sat in the queue for two days, with links to three different items on the raid. K5 posted a piece on this. Meanwhile, Slashdot editors drool over... a stupid studio fight, among other things.

Just this once, can I find out why the story was rejected? Is it because three IMCs were the sources, one of which took the time to contact the FBI and confirm the raid? Was it not "geeky" enough? I would think FBI raids on sites would be news, regardless of how extreme or controversial the sites are.

Some discussion in the items on SF IMC related to the raid indicate a few possible reasons for the raid, including protesting tactics, some Anarchist Cookbook-like material on making weapons and explosives on a budget, and the timing - one week before a major anti-corporate globalization demonstration in New York City, which brings up the spectre of scapegoating should anything get out of hand. In fact, I'm personally pretty sure the main reason for the raid was to collect "evidence" of activist sites encouraging violence in the event the situation degenerates, regardless of which side provokes the violence.

Also:

Activist site raisethefist.com raided and shut down by the FBI... last Thursday.

* 2002-01-27 00:27:10 Raisethefist.com Shut Down by FBI (yro,usa) (rejected)

I normally don't complain about my own rejected submissions, but this one sat in the queue for two days, with links to three different items on the raid. K5 posted a piece on this. Meanwhile, Slashdot editors drool over... a stupid studio fight, among other things.

Just this once, can I find out why the story was rejected? Is it because three IMCs were the sources, one of which took the time to contact the FBI and confirm the raid? Was it not "geeky" enough? I would think FBI raids on sites would be news, regardless of how extreme or controversial the sites are.

Some discussion in the items on SF IMC related to the raid indicate a few possible reasons for the raid, including protesting tactics, some Anarchist Cookbook-like material on making weapons and explosives on a budget, and the timing - one week before a major anti-corporate globalization demonstration in New York City, which brings up the spectre of scapegoating should anything get out of hand. In fact, I'm personally pretty sure the main reason for the raid was to collect "evidence" of activist sites encouraging violence in the event the situation degenerates, regardless of which side provokes the violence.

Activist site raisethefist.com shut down by the FBI.

K5 already did a story on this - why not Slashdot?

this brings up another question.. it's so commonly mentioned how these great random freelancing web journalists are changing the media by bringing unbiased news, and that sort of thing. we all know about the usual indy medias, but what other independant journalists have really proved themselves to be something insightful and accurate?

You're right. I'd say that the mass media are more "democratic" today than they've ever been in the last two centuries. William Randolph Hearst and pals controlled everything you read a hundred years ago, and through most of the twentieth century, you had three TV networks or nothing.

Today we've got any number of socialist news sites, right-wing commentary, plus access to everything AP and Reuters put out. Every think tank has the means to get their message to a worldwide audience.

And yet, with all this, people still complain that the media aren't state-controlled enough. And these are the same people who complain that the state is run by Big Evil Corporations. (I'm not saying it isn't.) But if the state runs the media, and the BEC's run the state, how is that a good thing?

Here are some links to coverage about "Black Hawk Down" from indymedia.org:
---
"Expose Black Hawk Down"
by Amnesty International of Northern Arizona Uni
www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=116352
---
MP3 Statement...
clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/expose_blackhawk_do wn.mp3
...The moral of the movie seems to be 'Americans get tougher'. No mention is made in the movie of the Oil Concessions that many people believe were the real reasons for the American Intervention...
---
International ANSWER has issued a call to leaflet/picket theaters and set the record-and U.S. past and current aims and actions in Somalia and that region-correct.
madison.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=2680
..a people friendly event


PS. I still intend to see the movie, 'cause of the special effects', eh ?

---
Thankyou for showing me your wonderful gun, please allow me to lie down on the ground - Extract from UN Cambodian PhraseBook .

Here are some links to coverage about "Black Hawk Down" from indymedia.org:
---
"Expose Black Hawk Down"
by Amnesty International of Northern Arizona Uni
www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=116352
---
MP3 Statement...
clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/expose_blackhawk_do wn.mp3
...The moral of the movie seems to be 'Americans get tougher'. No mention is made in the movie of the Oil Concessions that many people believe were the real reasons for the American Intervention...
---
International ANSWER has issued a call to leaflet/picket theaters and set the record-and U.S. past and current aims and actions in Somalia and that region-correct.
madison.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=2680
..a people friendly event


PS. I still intend to see the movie, 'cause of the special effects', eh ?

---
Thankyou for showing me your wonderful gun, please allow me to lie down on the ground - Extract from UN Cambodian PhraseBook .

LOL. Slashdot is what is known as "yellow journalism". This site makes indymedia and NewsMax look unbiased.

Anyway, Drudge makes a pretty good news portal. He's got links to everything, and his site's way better than his rep. Plus, he's a little paranoid about everything, just like you seem to be. Peep it.

I like the BBC and the Independant Media Center.

I have 5 mod points. Anyone want to paypal me some money in exchange for depositing them on comments of their choice?

Having had a few deep breaths and calmed down a bit, I'd like to add that despite 30 years of terrorist attacks (sponsored by US citizens), the UK hasn't seen it necessary to introduce ID cards.

In fact the only time there was a widespread to detain possible terrorists was the internment in the 1970's, which cause so much hatred of the UK government, that it recruited a whole new generation of terrorists for the Republican cause.

To prevent terrorists striking against you, a country has three options:
1) Stop the terrorists hating you so much that they will risk their lives or commit suicide to hurt you.
2) Have focussed intelligence agencies that can actually gather and act on intelligence data, rather than destabilising other countries.
3)Kill _everyone_ who might not like you.

The US is having a good go at number 3 (3,800 civilians so far and counting), but in the long run methods one and two are cheaper in dollars, lives lost and liberties given up in the name of freedom.

According to the sources, local area networks will be used to connect PCs installed with the operating system to TVs, air conditioners, refrigerators and other home appliances, giving great flexibility in controlling home appliances. But we also have this

Strangely this ties in well with the comments I made (1, 2) on the X Box sequel story The possibility of abuse of any technology has to be watched. This story on the Whitdot website reveals one aspect of business leaders trying to use technology to their advantadge.

There are many advantadges to this technology, but there is the flip side of this.

For example, the X-Box sequel fits nicely into this kind of setup. And obviously MS wants to be in this market. Do you trust Microsoft?

Actually, it is more a matter of the advatadges of the technology vs your trust or lack of trust for the big corporations. Which gets us into the whole Anti Globalist thing. I am not so sure of that as well. It spins out of control into a flame war of the evils of technology vs the evils of no technology really fast.

What does confuse me: This was a dispute between a Mexican bank president and a Mexican journalist that the Mexican courts shitcanned at least once. How did it end up in New York's state courts?

Tony writes:

My question is, does the fact that the judge dismissed the case based on your protection as a journalist mean that the venue of New York was in fact a valid venue for such a trial? Did you even bring up that issue with her? It seems that the judge, by dismissing the case, did in fact take jurisdiction, thereby setting a precedent that a Mexican newspaper and a website published from Mexico can be sued outside of Mexico (in the United States)?

Al replies:

Let me nip that rumor in the bud right away!

The Court found NO JURISDICTION over my co-defendant, Mexican newspaper editor Mario Menendez. The Court found CONFLICTING FACTS from Banamex and from our side over whether there would be jurisdiction over Narco News or I over what was published on Narco News (she did, as I read it, find likely jurisdiction over me on one charge, the slander charge, over statements I made at Columbia University and on WBAI, but not on the Internet). Judge Omansky said that the question of juris over Narco News or I for my internet statements would have to be subject to further discovery, but that the fact that she determined that we had the same protections as commercial media meant that there didn't even need to be more discovery, that another set of issues then destroyed Banamex's case.

Search Google for the relevant keywords for more information, particularly since the Grey Lady was also a target of Mr. Giordano's investigative talents, and thus they're not likely to give it the coverage it deserves ...

• Google: narconews + banamex
• audio: Giordano reports on AP conflict of interest in Bolivia reporting (the worst sin in journalism)
• IndyMedia's interview with Giordano

I think the GNU GPL people fall more into the anarchist realm while the BSD style license developers fall under Marxism more..

GPL doesn't provide much benefit to the economy, and keeps the code in the hands of the programmers.

No one can take control w/ the GPL. Richard Stallman is an Anarchist
but it seems like he doesn't want to say it.
I don't blame him for not saying if he is or not though ... a lot of people seem to associate anarchy w/ complete disorder and chaos. Just read his website, and then go to a site like The Independent Media Centre, which many anarchist's read on a regular basis for unbiased news.

Plus, knowing the slashdot crowd, there would be more anti-Stallman flames if he admitted he was an anarchist.

The true changes in society are made face-to-face with people you see everyday. Memes are so much more contagious when you are sharing the same air with someone.

Sure, perhaps we would suddenly see thousands more videos a la Rodney King or perhaps even volunteer "Thought Police"-types of citizan groups (there's a Louisville, KY paper called "Snitch") but isn't that reason alone NOT to make such things? Enabling people to securely document unseemly behaviour of authorities would surely prompt many "corporate privacy protection" laws or the outright declaration that video recordings of Federal, State, and Municipal employees are verboten. On the other hand, the goody-two-shoes neighborhood snitch crowd would threaten the private citizen's right to be anonymous.

But despite these objections, these things are already starting to happen -- the surveilence culture is already well established. Xcam, anyone? Indymedia is an example of how cheap video equipment, the internet, and PHP can provide an alternative news service for those who disdain the mainstream sources. The cops routinely videotape everything they do, and sometimes re-edit it later as they see fit.

The difference between the current trend of surveillence culture and Sterlings's pleas to geeks are that regular joe can't compete with the likes of CNN in getting those memes out there. Plus States' resources in information management; ie. linking downtown London's streetcorner cameras to Interpol mugshots.

Imagine a Slashdot style system of posting video clips (except really really user-friendly); user-moderated, with "karma" exploded into multiple ratings axes (rather than being 1-dimensional), decentralized, with multiple points of entry (not just different browsers -- different ways of getting the info).

The difference between this and TV news is a reported doesn't simply present information -- they interpret and filter it to a large degree. However, how could a news organization ignore a video clip that gets boosted to the top of the pile?

Brainstorm, rant, reaction....

I once asked a guy from Iraq about this. His country is facing massive starvation, medical problems, and decaying infrasturcture due to the U.N. Sanctions. Sanctions which aren't weakening Saddam any. (see here or here[msword warning])

He personally had no need for a server farm. But he did need a news source. People support the sanctions he feels because the don't know how bad they really are. , but a news source, some way of getting the word out to the public, an Indymedia or a Cryptome. Something to inform the world of what is happening. That alone can make all the difference by motivating others to make changes or even volunteer their time.

I'd suggest looking at one of those sites or starting another if you prefer.
If you'd rather have a job the WHO is advertising for Professional staff (including IT).

User comments should not be touched, and in fact Slash does not permit this. You would have to access the MySQL files and edit the comments directly if you wanted to do that. This can be inconvenient.

That being said, posters should be resonsible for their own comments. If they post something against the site policy, or illegal, then the site should be able to retain the option to delete the comments.

I happen to like the moderation system, because otherwise you can devolve into a sea of moronic cluelessness. It will do until something else comes along. Things like the open publishing system seen at Indy Media are great, but they do not scale well.

indymedia isn't some obscure web site.

Yes, actually, it is. Just because you and your friends go there all the time, it doesn't mean that it's popular.

That aside, I'm absolutely not impressed with the quality of the Belgian Indymedia site (can't speak for other versions, didn't read them). Bad grammar, bad writing style, non-impartial reporting. So I partially agree with you, but I don't agree that the quality of something is determined or indicated by its popularity.

That's AMAZING, they announced that?

What's next, a means of DOUBLING HARD DRIVE SPACE? Maybe someone soon will announce they've figured out a way to make screens BIGGER and CHEAPER....

It amazes me some of the stuff that slashdot rejects when compared with some of the stuff that gets posted.

I submitted something over the weekend about someone at indymedia.org who was detained at an airport and questioned aboput posts he'd made to a web discussion group under a pseudonym.

Yes, that's right, he was pulled aside at an airport and they not only knew exactly who he was, but his nick and specific posts he'd made.

Seems to scream "YRO," but hey, we gotta make space for stories about bigger hard drives and faster, cooler processors that may see the light of day eventually.

The story is here, btw.

Ahh... that's how it works?

I wouldn't even call Fox journalism, let alone appropriate political bias from it. CNN is liberal? hrm, as in anything left of Hitler liberal? It wouldn't say it's overtly liberal, maybe domestic CNN is very different.

Now IndyMedia is liberal, or provocatively Marxist depending on your political outlook.

That's a very Chomskian viewpoint - "I don't know what to do, but what the US is doing is wrong."

I've read a lot of Chomsky, and that's not what he's been saying. The first step is to ask the right questions. If you don't, you can't possibly hope to make an informed decision. The first question that must be asked is "Why were the crimes of Sept. 11th committed?" Only then can we hope to stop the violence.

Hint: It has nothing to do with America being the land of the free and the home of the brave.

More hints: Palestine and Isreal. 10 years of sanctions and bombing of Iraq. U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia. Supporting oppressive regimes that are friendly to oil interests.

As Chomsky has made very clear, there are more choices than attack, aid, or ignore. But any solution should start with the basic premise of "first, do no harm."

Bombing an already starving population ruled by an oppressive regime right before winter sets in is going to result in the deaths of millions of civilians by winter's end. Is that helping or doing harm? We haven't taken out the Taliban, and now there's talk of keeping some of the "moderates" in poower to rule with the Northern Alliance. Hello?! The Northern Alliance is the world's major heroine producer.

Before the U.S. began its viscious revenge (God bless America -- He's on our side), Afghanis were at least receiving U.N. food aid and aid from Pakistan. That stopped soon after 9-11. In fact we demanded that Pakistan stop its food shipments to Afghanistan and close its borders to contain the anticipated massive refugee flight.

Yes, but only one of those places hosts a group that murdered 5000 US civilians.

And that's the key isn't it? That the U.S. has murdered -- either directly or through military training and aid -- millions of civilians in the past fifty years alone isn't a problem because they weren't U.S. civilians. We've overthrown democratically-elected governments, targeted civilians with cluster bombs, and flagrantly disregarded international law and U.N. resolutions to keep the profits flowing. But as long as we always export our terror, all is well.

Keep reading. ZNet. IndyMedia. Listen to the rhetoric Bush is spouting. Take a Bush speech and replace "God" with "Allah" and "U.S." with "Islam" and you can't tell him apart from bin Laden.

For all you puzzle solvers, here is a good one:

The Purplexing Problem of the Published Passenger Lists

Your answers are eagerly anticipated.

Thank you.

I think that even if John Q Public knows nothing about open source, if the services he uses are running open source, it doesn't matter.

Lets make them "Usefull Idiots" eh? I am appauled(sp?) that you believe it fruitfull to mislead people to direct their 'weight'.

What is the purpose in advocating the "moral superiority(sp?)" of Free Software" if you are not willing to take the time to discuss it with the "masses" - jesus man, are the unwashed not smart enough to understand what "we" are talking about? Should we just lead them through the dark with half-truths and bullshite?

Im drunk, a little in-=articulate(sP?), and frankly insulted - what makes you the "saviour of people who dont know whats good for themselves"?

I read a .sig here on /. recently that I found very interesting: "anyone who says that "X" is manipulating you is trying to take "X's" job."

Only full disclosure, education and complete honesty will build our desired future.

Hey whatwhat is this? If what you have to say isnt 'self-evident' its not that important... lets find some basic thruths mmmm, kay?

You are correct in that the media is made up of humans, and prone to make mistakes. But I think you misrepresent the entire situation with this statement, in implying that human error is the most significant factor in misreported news.

If you are not already aware, virtually all major news sources are intimitely tied in with large corporations that have major interests in slanting the media. Bias is a much larger problem than error.

If you check the CNN web page, you most likely see that the anthrax stories overshadow what is happening in Afghanistan. They are taking advantage of the current local scare to distract people from more important events happening elsewhere.

I suggest that you look into independent sources of media as well. They are error prone as well, but at least have a different bias than the conglomerates (unbiased media is a myth):

Independent Media

DMOZ: News -> Alternative Media
ZMag: Left Wing media resources
Indymedia: Non-Corporate news coverage
Guerrilla News Network
Project Censored: Censored news stories
Alternet: Alternative news, opinion, and investigative journalism
MediaChannel: "MediaChannel exists to provide information and diverse perspectives and inspire debate, collaboration, action and citizen engagement"
Common Dreams: "Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community
The Public i: An Investigative Report of the Center for Public Integrity
Pacifica Network News
The Onion: Media Satire

Media Analysis

"Propaganda" at the University of Washington School of Communication
PROMO: Project on Media Ownership
Military school article on Psychological Operations (PSYOPs)
Media Access Project: "A Non-Profit Public Interest Telecommunications Law Firm
Reporters Committee For Freedom of the Press
FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting
The Poynter Institute: What journalists read
Columbia Journalism Review
Who Owns What
People for Better TV: "69 percent of Americans say TV is the most trusted source of information"

LS

I would have to agree. One of my biggest bitches right now about the mass media is the ammount of filtering they do for me. I want all of it and i want it raw. If i haven't learned by now how to make my own choices then i shouldn't be looking for that information anyway. I should be living in a bubble and going to my mind numbing job as blissfully as the next yob. Just becase NBC wont do a story on polution because one of their investors/owners is listed in the report along with the myriad of other reasons(excuses) is no reason not to produce an accurate(or as much as possible) news report.

P.S. Troed, thanks for the link to indy media

Last week, while scanning the various news sites for information, I was constantly faced with examples of the unreliability of the major US news sources. I noted this in particular:

On cnn.com, Oct 15:

"(Gen. Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) said that despite the Taliban claims of civilian deaths in Koram 'there were no bomb craters in that village.'"

"The Taliban also escorted journalists to the village, which appeared to have been largely destroyed. Giant craters were visible as well as several fresh graves. Carcasses of dead animals lay here and there along with bloodied pillows."

That sort of reporting merely strengthening my total lack of faith in corporate media. I've been relying more heavily on the Guardian for better coverage, and IndyMedia for posts of stories buried in smaller publications.

.. and _who_ would you want to trust doing that?

Before you answer, read this

The problem starts when people ONLY read biased news, and don't know about it. CNN is a good example here - if you have access to other sources you trust, you probably know as well as I do that the current affairs in Afghanistan are _very_ US-centric reported by CNN. When others say there are confirmed reports about civilian casualities, CNN still claims there are no such reports etc.

There's a saying that americans are ignorant - can't point out Egypt on a map, don't know that Sweden and Schwitzerland aren't the same countries etc. With the risk of immideate "flamebait" moderation, I must confess that I agree with that view. Do a test sometime, and compare your knowledge (if you're american) about the world affairs with someone from Europe or Asia ..

You've been told by your government and your biased media that Bin Laden is indeed responsible, and that the talibans have supported him. Now, pray tell, have you seen any proof?
No.

Perhaps you were misinformed. That's the only non-insulting explanation I can think of. If you read this entire post and don't believe any of it then I'd be truely fasinated to hear your explanation. Don't forget to explain why anyone would go through all this effort against uninvolved parties.

I did this search using evidence+linking+bin+laden. 3,360 matches returned. I quit after the first 20 results. I'm sure you'll dismiss some of these items, but don't overlook the guilty verdicts in the embassy bombings near the bottom. :) The only reason Bin Laden wasn't tried in court years ago is because the Taliban are protecting him. Note, any link below longer than 1 line is merely to provide the source of the quote.

"Federal authorities have identified more than a dozen hijackers of Middle Eastern descent in Tuesday's bombings and gathered evidence linking them to Osama bin Laden". Oh yeah, US gov and US media are all lying. Ummm, could you remind me why they'd want to let the actual guilty parties keep blowing stuff up? " Within 48 hours some 4,000 special agents and 3,000 support personnel were assigned to the case, with about 400 FBI laboratory specialists deployed to examine the forensic evidence." There must be over 10,000 people involved in this conspiracy, not even counting everyone in the media.

"A German government spokesman said Wednesday that German, British, French and Israeli secret services had also linked the Saudi dissident to the world's worst terrorist atrocity." Ummm, I guess that means Germany, England, France, and Isreal are part of the conspiracy too? Could you give me a clue why?

During an active investigation eveidence is kept confidential. Here's the leak that prompted a major lockdown on information: "A US Senator Orrin Hatch has said that FBI official intercepted telephone calls, which indicated bin Laden had been involved in plotting the attacks on New York and Washington." Damn, would have been helpful if other operatives in the US phoned Al-Qaida too. I guess that's the end of that source of evidence.

The specific evidence may not be public, but governments are getting to see it. "Meanwhile, the U.S. began providing its allies with what some governments said is clear evidence linking Saudi-born Osama bin Laden to the Sept. 11 attacks. Some reports said that evidence includes records of communications by bin Laden's aides, notes left by suicide hijackers before the attacks, and reports that some of the hijackers received training in bin Laden's military camps."
and "information linking Osama bin Laden with the terrorist's plot. Britain's Tony Blair has seen it. Pakistan's top leaders have seen it. Some evidence has even been published on the Internet." I guess we have to add Japan and Pakistan to the conspiracy list.

"Authorities are also reported to have been gathering evidence that some of those involved in Tuesday's attacks may also have been behind, among others, the bombing of the USS Cole off Yemen and the Millennium bombing plot on U.S. soil." Oh yeah, must be more dis-information.

Specific public evidence hard to come by on in any active investigation, but there's plenty of evidence on the 1998 embassy bombings available. Take a look at this declassified summary of findings of the FBI investigation into the Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings on August 7, 1998. Written November 18, 1998. There was enough evidence to indict Bin Laden and others on murder and other charges. "In total, the U.S. government has public indictments against 26 members of bin Laden's international group, Al Qaeda. Of those men, three have pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the U.S. government as witnesses. Four were tried this year [and convicted]. Six are in custody in the U.S. or abroad and are awaiting trial. Thirteen, including bin Laden himself, are fugitives. The six other bin Laden associates in custody include several high-ranking members of Al-Qaeda." August 1997 raid on El Hage's house in Nairobi yielded this letter linking Bin Laden to the cell that bombed the embassy.

And Bin Laden implicates himself: "journalists with access to bin Laden said he and his followers openly boasted in recent months that they were preparing for attacks against the United States in retaliation for American support of Israel.
A videotape has been circulating in the Middle East for several months in which bin Laden recites a victory poem about the Cole bombing, and then issues a call to arms: 'To all the Mujah: Your brothers in Palestine are waiting for you; it's time to penetrate America and Israel and hit them where it hurts the most.'" and I still say the video Bin Laden released afterwards amounts to a confession and promise to continue.

Stating that you should be afraid of Muslims is a rasist comment

I never said that, and if anyone else here did then I missed it.

The afghan people, being bombed by the US, has had nothing to do with the attacks.

The bombing is precision bombing. Very few non-terrorist non-taliban getting hit. If there were some way to reduce the innocent civilian casualties to zero then that would be great. Unfortunately it's not possible. Considering the raw tonnage of bombs dropped it's pretty impressive the death toll is so low. Bin Laden has stated the terrorist attacks will continue. The USA has a right to defend itself.

The lies of the USA

Heh, pretty funny. I've been to that website before. The articles at Indimedia are &lt Ahem&gt slightly biased.

Lets see what the article you linked to says:

title "The Taliban Is GOOD - don't believe Western propaganda"

"The Soviet Invasion" What does any of that have to do with anything?

"the Taliban" It pretty much says the Taliban are good because things were bad before, from the war. There was no government. Now there is. Well, isn't that a ringing endorsement! It says the Taliban treat women well.

Ummm, what's all this nonsence I keep hearing about RAWA?
"forbids us to let our women walk around like prostitutes" If any woman who goes to college, gets a job in a store, or even shows here face in public is a prostitute deserving to be beaten, I think maybe you have a slightly different definition of prostitute than I do.

"Afghanistan does have a true religion, and that is Islam". Oh goody, they have the correct religion, everyone else has the wrong religion. They must be the good guys!

USA policy is freedom of religion. Islam is practiced within the USA.

Bin Laden: "maybe the United States is looking for a scapegoat"

Ummm, if Bin Laden isn't responsible then why the hell is he releasing video tapes to the press stating that freezing his money won't stop him, and that the terrorist attacks will continue?

"Sanctions...children died" Ah, yes. The Children. Well, I guess if you don't belive Bin Laden is responsible then you don't belive the Taliban knew anything about it either.

Why the hell are the Taliban siezing/attempting to tax the food aid shipments into Afghanistan?

"the statues" Yeah, I saw it on the news. Whatever. At least six freaking paragraphs about the statues.

"Afghanistan is not a terrorist state; we cannot even make a needle. How are we going to be a terrorist state? How are we going to be a
threat to the world?"

Oh, ok then. If Afghanistan can't even make a needle then I guess it's impossible to organize people to hijack planes and kill.

No thank you, if all of slashdot doesn't start civil unrest over this "national card" mail thousands of letters to every government official and basically scream in the streets that we will be looking for senators heads if this even get's entertained then all is lost.


if you do that you'll be a terrorist. To those in power, the wisdom in the the axiom; "One Mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is never gleened.

Protest.net - Indymedia.org

The War on Drugs has been responsible for massive amounts of federal asset seizures. I can't remember if it was Bush or Reagan, but one of 'em enacted a law that gave the federal law enforcement agencies the abillity to seize your goods if they even SUSPECTED you were involved in some form of drug trade or possession, and they don't have to disclose the "evidence" that led them to believe you were guilty. This resulted in a lot of innocent people taking it in the bung.

I see a parallel here in recent events. The government has just come up with another way to criminalize otherwise innocent people. We already have a greater percent of the population incarcerated than any nation (but, hey, it's good for the economy!).

The scariest thing, to me, is that if the government spent as much time and money trying to educate us about drugs, rather then spend it on propaganda, we might not have so many lives destroyed. Similarly, if we spent as much time and money on finding a peaceful solution to the terrorist problem, instead of bombing the hell out of people and whittling away at US Citizens' civil liberties, maybe we could get somewhere.

Meanwhile, I'm a bit scared that my political beliefs will get me thrown in a jail. Please, you may not agree that we shouldn't be bombing Afghanastan, and you may not agree with my politics, but every single American is in danger of losing our freedoms. And that's what we are supposed to be fighting for in the first place, isn't it?

Speak out!

The War on Drugs has been responsible for massive amounts of federal asset seizures. I can't remember if it was Bush or Reagan, but one of 'em enacted a law that gave the federal law enforcement agencies the abillity to seize your goods if they even SUSPECTED you were involved in some form of drug trade or possession, and they don't have to disclose the "evidence" that led them to believe you were guilty. This resulted in a lot of innocent people taking it in the bung.

I see a parallel here in recent events. The government has just come up with another way to criminalize otherwise innocent people. We already have a greater percent of the population incarcerated than any nation (but, hey, it's good for the economy!).

The scariest thing, to me, is that if the government spent as much time and money trying to educate us about drugs, rather then spend it on propaganda, we might not have so many lives destroyed. Similarly, if we spent as much time and money on finding a peaceful solution to the terrorist problem, instead of bombing the hell out of people and whittling away at US Citizens' civil liberties, maybe we could get somewhere.

Meanwhile, I'm a bit scared that my political beliefs will get me thrown in a jail. Please, you may not agree that we shouldn't be bombing Afghanastan, and you may not agree with my politics, but every single American is in danger of losing our freedoms. And that's what we are supposed to be fighting for in the first place, isn't it?

Speak out!

uname: testtest
pword: testtest

Cheap banner: Indymedia.org

Saw the interview on MSNBC. It was severely chopped up at key points. Still no description of the hijackers from any passengers (except that one scary one on de.indymedia.org which has since dissapeared.)

The guy was a hero, but from what I can tell of the descriptions of the final fight, and other calls from that plane, they died without making a difference.

Jeremy Glick was a real hero, he stood up and said "No", where many others would have hid and thought irrationally about their own safety. Don't let what comes out in the future change anyone's perception of that.

I would not know if that is true or not, but according to this site, they passed 1991 footage showing the palestinians dancing.

Anyone with better info can deny/confirm this ?

The Story is here

David

Everything is biased, but: Indymedia and Z Magazine are better than some.

How about the hypotheses suggested at the following article which were written at Indymedia.Org. They suggest that it may be that this heinous act of bloodshed will be used as an excuse by the militaristic/authoritarian elements in the US to force their repressive agenda on the public and introduce a roll-back of freedoms. :
more like the reichstag?
or
right-wing opportunistic backlash

How about the hypotheses suggested at the following article which were written at Indymedia.Org. They suggest that it may be that this heinous act of bloodshed will be used as an excuse by the militaristic/authoritarian elements in the US to force their repressive agenda on the public and introduce a roll-back of freedoms. :
more like the reichstag?
or
right-wing opportunistic backlash

http://www.indymedia.org/

has a... eer 'nice' picture !

Downtown NYC '01 or Dresden '45?
http://www.ndtv.com/images/topstories/wtcdebri.j pg for the goat-paranoid, courteousy of NDTV.com.
IndyMedia also has some news reports trickling in.

I am very much a libertarian when it comes to these issues. It is not the right, role, or responsibility of government to permit or restrict your personal internet access within their institutions. There are BETTER DESERVING issues that need public funding instead of damned internet access within the libraries. Dump the internet access within the libraries. Take that money and pay down the national debt, feed some hungry people... do SOMETHING constructive.

God forbid that someone too poor to own a computer and pay an ISP could use the internet to read non-corporate news sites or coordinate via indymedia. Gotta keep 'em down, right?

Seriously, the problem with jumping on the Libertarian bandwagon is that, when you get down to it, the only roles they see for governments are contract enforcement and national defence. Thus, ALL the tax money goes to lawyers and defense contractors. No feeding the hungry, no "faith-based" destruction of the wall between church and state. If you want to do that, start a company and find a way to make a buck at it. If you can't make money off of it, fuck 'em. They'll starve.

from indymedia.org

Because of the way [NAFTA's] Chapter 11 is being used, "the balance of power between sovereign nations and corporations has shifted against governments, providing significant economic and legal strategic leverage to corporations," said Lydia Lazar, assistant dean at Chicago-Kent College of Law and an expert on NAFTA law.

from
the NAFTA index:

Percentage of Americans who believe that it is "very important" that environmental and labor standards are included in trade agreements: 72(44)
The number of months before Canada passed a public health law banning the import of the U.S.- based Ethyl Corporation's gasoline additive MMT that the company announced its intention to use NAFTA to sue Canada for damages, should it enact the legislation: 7(45)
The number of days after Canada banned the import of its gasoline additive, MMT, that Ethyl Corporation filed its suit: 5(46)
The amount of money the Canadian government paid the Ethyl Corporation in damages: $13 million(47)
Number of countries world-wide in which gasoline producers use the Ethyl Corporation's MMT: 1 (Canada)(48)
Number of known cases initiated NAFTA's investor right-to-sue-governments provisions, since the provision went into effect in 1996: 4(49)
Number of cases in which investor is challenging an environmental law: 4(50)

from indymedia.org

Because of the way [NAFTA's] Chapter 11 is being used, "the balance of power between sovereign nations and corporations has shifted against governments, providing significant economic and legal strategic leverage to corporations," said Lydia Lazar, assistant dean at Chicago-Kent College of Law and an expert on NAFTA law.

from
the NAFTA index:

Percentage of Americans who believe that it is "very important" that environmental and labor standards are included in trade agreements: 72(44)
The number of months before Canada passed a public health law banning the import of the U.S.- based Ethyl Corporation's gasoline additive MMT that the company announced its intention to use NAFTA to sue Canada for damages, should it enact the legislation: 7(45)
The number of days after Canada banned the import of its gasoline additive, MMT, that Ethyl Corporation filed its suit: 5(46)
The amount of money the Canadian government paid the Ethyl Corporation in damages: $13 million(47)
Number of countries world-wide in which gasoline producers use the Ethyl Corporation's MMT: 1 (Canada)(48)
Number of known cases initiated NAFTA's investor right-to-sue-governments provisions, since the provision went into effect in 1996: 4(49)
Number of cases in which investor is challenging an environmental law: 4(50)

[soapbox]

I also wanted to take this opportunity to tell you that I am using the internet in this way. It's young and not all that active yet, but I'm running a slash site called terradot , with a slogan of growing awareness, and it's got a very broad topic range. Please check it out. Also, there are many other good sites that are attempting to take back the power of propoganda and distribute it a little more evenly, instead of the wealthy having it all and the middle and lower classes having none. The internet has this potential, and all we need to do now is make it happen. As soon as I started reading /. I felt like I was connected to the geek community - in the know - and when something important happened, I knew about it. You don't find all the important stuff on CNN. Some other sites are the Independent Media Center, Common Dreams and Smokedot. Obviously there are many more. Check it out, once again, check out terradot. ;)

[/soapbox]

cheers, ouroboros
http://terradot.org

HOW DUMB DO YOU WANT AMRICANS TO BECOME ?
As if we are not dumb enough already. I don't have the attention span for much more of this crap. That's why I get my news on 'culture' from indymedia.

If I want to talk about cultural issues, I come here, or go to adequacy.org. Or at least I used to until some idiots decided it would be a good idea to DDOS it.

To sum up: SNES games are NOT culture.

I take it you grant me my point on police brutality in Los Angeles and NYC.

Hmm, are you suggesting that all these broken windows, destroyed property and burned out cars were provided to us by our "dark corner" police?

Actually, yes, according to many reports from eyewitnesses (and here , and here ) the police were responsible for a great deal of the violence in Genoa. It is undisputed that the vast majority of the protestors in Genoa were non-violent, yet they were especially targeted, while the small number of black-block anarchists were left unopposed to destroy property. Many protestors believe that the police actually infiltrated the black block and took part in some of the worst property destruction. Quite a propaganda coup for the proto-fascist Italian government - do you see the logic behind it?

Personally, I would rather see a few broken windows than have a young women get her face beaten to an unrecognizable pulp, or a young man wielding a fire extinguisher get fatally shot in the head.

Of course, if you only get your information from Fox News and the like, these events were either unreported or trivialized .