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Water has a MSDS.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/w0600.htm

MSDSes are fun.

Learn something. Learn what to do when you get superglue in your eye:

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000394AA.pdf

In other words "nothing, put a patch over it and it will come off the eyeball on its own in a few days."

--
BMO

A lot of products and materials you wouldn't think twice about have to be handled properly in large quantities and come with all kinds of warnings. A giant server farm immersed in mineral oil I think would qualify as a large quantity user of mineral oil. Check out the MSDS on caffeine or ethanol for example. http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c0165.htm http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/89308.htm

A mineral oil or liquid petroleum is a liquid by-product of the distillation of petroleum to produce gasoline and other petroleum based products from crude oil. And it isn't exactly non-toxic nor non-flammable (see link below). Not to mention all the heavy metals still found in many servers. Inevitably some of those metals will be picked up by the circulating oil so disposal might become an issue as well. Don't get me wrong, I like new ideas that save energy but touting it is "totally green" is skipping a few steps.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m7700.htm

I only knew one person who couldn't detect odors. A funny story. He had a cold, and another classmate in chem got him to sniff glacial acetic acid. He couldn't smell it (think 100x the strength of vinegar). So he sniffed deeper. And that was THAT. No sense of smell - ever.

He ended up in the nut-house, but that's another story.

The amount of mercury in a typical CFL is around 4mg (http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls_mercury [energystar.gov])... Based on the MSDS http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M1599.htm [jtbaker.com], that amount is WELL above the airborne exposure limits (40 times the OSHA upper limit).

How were you planning to get all that mercury to go airborne? Do you normally fry light-bulbs on your stove?

Then there is people claiming that CFLs give them headaches, if I had more time I'd point out the studies where people are shown to have similar sensitivity as those who sense EM fields.

While I don't get headaches directly from CFLs, if I do have one, I typically find that some CFLs will make it worse (When I get a headache, I'm typically very sensitive to light. The fact that some bulbs make it worse than others leads me to believe there may be something about sensitivity to certain light frequencies) The difference, is that it's only SOME CFLs that cause it... The light output varies from model to model, and while I wouldn't avoid CFLs because of it, I may avoid certain models... EM sensitivity I think is largely psychological, but I do think that light sensitivity is a very real effect (But definitely does have some psychological effect)...

As for the mercury argument, it only plays if you break a bulb. Sure, coal may put out more, but what's the average effect on each person with coal? I'd bet it's less than if you broke a bulb (and were directly exposed to the mercury). However with that said is the amount that's contained in a CFL dangerous? Is it beyond the LEL? The amount of mercury in a typical CFL is around 4mg (http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls_mercury)... Based on the MSDS http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M1599.htm, that amount is WELL above the airborne exposure limits (40 times the OSHA upper limit). So the dangers of mercury are real, but the flip side of that argument is how many bulbs are broken? If you have a habit of breaking them, then perhaps it's a real concern. If you've never broken a bulb in your life, perhaps it doesn't concern you (Since exposure one time isn't nearly as bad as a repeated exposure)... But to say that it isn't dangerous is extremely short sighted and blatently ignoring the facts. Sure it's not a mitigate-able danger (just don't break the bulb), but it still exists...

This time instead of continuing to spout discredited crap, do a bit of research.

Ummm... No comment...

That might be cleaner, but I'm sure it's much more expensive. Mineral oil is not particularly flammable, having a high flash point and autoignition temperature. One would likely be able to extinguish small flames by immersing them in mineral oil.

Gasoline, on the other hand, has a flash point of about -40 degrees. Additionally, it is highly volatile. Your comparison regarding beds lacks merit.

The wicking is fixable, as detailed in the link I provided. Also, running electricity through it is not a problem, because it is not conductive.

Mineral oil does have the potential to erode some plastics, however, the Puget Systems people ran their system for over a year without any mishaps. The obvious conclusion would be that the mineral oil did not degrade any of the plastics contained within their rig.

"What if you wanted to work on your computer?" I'd recommend removing the parts from the mineral oil first, although I suppose it wouldn't be strictly necessary.

Your ignorance leaves little room for condescension, it would seem. Perhaps we should therefore not rely on your judgment as to what is professional.

With all due respect,
-Tene

CO/H mixtures are also known as Syngas.

I agree completely. Everything is turning into a DHMO scare. If you want to scare the heck out of someone, have then read the MSDS of some of the chemicals you can buy by the gallon at you local DIY store. Methyl Ethyl Ketone, xylene, etc. People blithely ignore the safety data for these because they think if it's at a DIY store it must be somehow 'safe'.

CO/H mixtures are also known as Syngas.

I agree completely. Everything is turning into a DHMO scare. If you want to scare the heck out of someone, have then read the MSDS of some of the chemicals you can buy by the gallon at you local DIY store. Methyl Ethyl Ketone, xylene, etc. People blithely ignore the safety data for these because they think if it's at a DIY store it must be somehow 'safe'.

Inhalation:
Causes irritation to the respiratory tract. Symptoms may include coughing, shortness of breath.
Ingestion:
Not considered toxic although aluminum chloride may form slowly in the digestive tract with nausea, vomiting, other gastrointestinal effects in extreme cases.
Skin Contact:
May cause irritation with redness and pain.
Eye Contact:
Causes irritation, redness, and pain.
Chronic Exposure:
Pulmonary fibrosis from chronic inhalation has been reported. Chronic exposure has also produced numbness in fingers and (in one case) brain effects.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impaired respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance. Aluminum pwoder

not too outrageous for an industrial chemical.

Granted what they are spraying is probably "safe," as PTFE (Teflon), GoreTex and a few other inert materials are made with it, but I still dont like the idea of TSA agents types spraying fluoric compounds at whatever they see fit to need spraying. Most compounds with fluorine have toxic warnings associated with them (ie: heating teflon above 500 can cause it to deteriorate and release toxic fumes). Yes, dihydrogenmonoxide can be fatal too, etc, but fluorine is a true nasty one. Id say people are more likely to be poisoned by spray happy TSA agents than be blown up by a random terrrrrist.

Tm

-Non-corrosive

Mercury is NEVER EVER Nontoxic.
It cannot be made nontoxic (despite what the amalgum "alchemists" of dentistry will tell you.)
The ADA will lie to their graves about Mercury's toxicities in the body from the mouth and lungs the lungs. HCL acid, AKA "stomach acid", does a great job of dissolving swallowed Mercury fillings and their residues readily dispersing the Mercury into the bloodstream.
Definitions of harmless vary.
Mercury vapor is heavier than air, it will not just float away.

Please read the MSDS for Mercury..., any questions?: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M1599.htm

Gallium OTOH is a much more expensive and LESS toxic alternative in some devices, but not all.

from the material safety data sheet
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m1599.htm

Danger! Corrosive. Causes Burns To Skin, Eyes, And Respiratory Tract. May Be Fatal If Swallowed Or Inhaled. Harmful If Absorbed Through Skin. Affects The Kidneys And Central Nervous System. May Cause Allergic Skin Reaction.

umm lets see the big No nos are Lead : http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/l2347.htm Cadmium : http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/CA/cadmium and the other stuff in the batteries isn't exactly good either lithium goes boom if it gets wet oh and mercury, in the US mercury batteries are BANNED due to the health hazards

Well, here's safety information for common table salt:

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm
Inhalation:
May cause mild irritation to the respiratory tract.
Ingestion:
Very large doses can cause vomiting, diarrhea, and prostration. Dehydration and congestion occur in most internal organs. Hypertonic salt solutions can produce violent inflammatory reactions in the gastrointestinal tract.
Skin Contact:
May irritate damaged skin; absorption can occur with effects similar to those via ingestion.
Eye Contact:
Causes irritation, redness, and pain. (For salt concentrations greater than the normal saline present.)
Chronic Exposure:
No information found.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
No information found.

Depends.

Metallic tin is not very toxic due to its poor gastrointestinal absorption.

Aluminum ... is not a necessary substance for our bodies and [though] too much may be harmful.

However, both of these refer to minute aluminum particles, not large (>1cm^2) pieces of foil, and much less amounts than a tinfoil hat would consist of.

Additionally, the aluminum foil will react violently with hydrochloric acid in your stomach, producing aluminum chloride and hydrogen. Assuming your stomach doesn't rupture from the pressure, AlCl3 has toxicity of Oral rat LD50: 3311 mg/Kg. Oral mouse LD50: 770 mg/kg
Tin is unreactive with HCl.

So assuming he got real tin foil, he should be fine. The Al foil would be quite dangerous, depending on how much his hat is made out of. There is also the added danger of being cut from the foil.

Here's the MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m7700.htm - It's not particularly harmful stuff, but it's not something that just "goes away" either. It's insoluble in water, and would probably be easy to remove at a sewage treatment facility, but one way or another, it has to be removed and disposed of properly - if not by you, then by someone more responsible. Fish can't breathe it, ducks can't eat it. It won't go away. Please don't dump it down the drain. I'm not an environmentalist per se, but the thought of people dumping inorganic oils down the sink willy-nilly just sets off my "Are you insane" alarms.

Have you ever looked at the MSDS for sodium chloride?
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm

Or silicon dioxide?

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SI/silicon_dioxide.h tml

You might never go to the beach again!

Mineral oil is ignitable, but you'll have trouble lighting it unless it's sprayed somehow or gets heated to well over boiling (its flash point is 135 C). By that point it's quite hazardous for being a lot of hot oil.

Genomics labs used to routinely use mineral oil at 95 C to prevent evaporation of PCR plates -- there's no real respiratory hazard, and your CPU shouldn't be running even that hot. (Although for all I know, maybe the new ones do...)

Mineral Oil is not nice stuff

Did you see the parts about flammable and a respiratory hazard?

What's next? A guy who uses gasoline for liquid cooling?

May I recommend Fluorinert FC-70?

Don't believe me? Look at the data sheet for table salt. "Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; PROPER GLOVES", "In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode.", " Ventilate area of leak or spill. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment as specified in Section 8. Spills: Sweep up and containerize for reclamation or disposal. Vacuuming or wet sweeping may be used to avoid dust dispersal.", "Containers of this material may be hazardous when empty since they retain product residues."

Oops, I forgot to wear my goggles and gloves when I had dinner this evening. I wonder if I'll live.

To be fair, I think that MSDS's are written with mass industrial processes in mind. Perhaps you have to be a bit more careful if you're working with a thousand tonnes of finely-ground salt. Still, MSDS's do not seem to me to be a very good guide to the overall hazardousness of a substance, especially when they say something as vague as "THE CHEMICAL, PHYSICAL, AND TOXICOLOGICAL PROPERTIES HAVE NOT BEEN THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED."

Tin is not toxic.

MSDS here.

Those other three, you probably don't want to be stuffing the turkey with, though.

Electrochemical reactions happen at extremely low voltages and in this case don't require any fancy reagents. You have the same masking problems with a chemical etch as with an electrochemical etch, but instead of needing a very average DC power supply, now you need something which you really shouldn't allow to touch your skin.

For anyone thinking of using any corrosive to etch metal, look up its MSDS and make sure you know what you're doing. The same can be said of electrochemisty, but we're all pretty comfortable with 12V power supplies.

Sodium Borohydrate is pretty nasty stuff. http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s3146.htm

"Probably the best is to electrolyze it from water using electricity provided by solar power or another clean means of power"

That method requires allot of power to produce a decent useable amount of hydrogen, plus you have to have a collection system that can bottle the gas under high pressure. That would require an interesting compressor setup.
It looks like the sodium borohydride mixture is onboard the scooter and produces the hydrogen on the spot. The only thing is that sodium borohydride is nasty shit; here is what google pulls up on the first hit: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s3146.htm

I like the warning: DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. FLAMMABLE SOLID. DANGEROUS WHEN WET.

On a whole it sounds cool though.

sodium borohydride doesn't look like a very nice chemical

Whoops - you're right, rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, which rates a 2 on the MSDS "health hazard" scale, compared to the 3 for methyl alcohol, and 1 for methylbutane. Although I expect the 60/40 methanol/water dilution makes the fuel less dangerous, 70/30 ethanol/water rates a 3, just like methanol, and some of us drink 151 proof (75.5% ethanol) rum for fun.

Whoops - you're right, rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, which rates a 2 on the MSDS "health hazard" scale, compared to the 3 for methyl alcohol, and 1 for methylbutane. Although I expect the 60/40 methanol/water dilution makes the fuel less dangerous, 70/30 ethanol/water rates a 3, just like methanol, and some of us drink 151 proof (75.5% ethanol) rum for fun.

Whoops - you're right, rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, which rates a 2 on the MSDS "health hazard" scale, compared to the 3 for methyl alcohol, and 1 for methylbutane. Although I expect the 60/40 methanol/water dilution makes the fuel less dangerous, 70/30 ethanol/water rates a 3, just like methanol, and some of us drink 151 proof (75.5% ethanol) rum for fun.

Whoops - you're right, rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, which rates a 2 on the MSDS "health hazard" scale, compared to the 3 for methyl alcohol, and 1 for methylbutane. Although I expect the 60/40 methanol/water dilution makes the fuel less dangerous, 70/30 ethanol/water rates a 3, just like methanol, and some of us drink 151 proof (75.5% ethanol) rum for fun.

Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Poison)
Flammability Rating: 3 - Severe (Flammable)
Reactivity Rating: 1 - Slight
Contact Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES; CLASS B EXTINGUISHER
Storage Color Code: Red (Flammable)

Aluminum is very pyrophoric. If you grind it up into a fine enough powder, it ignites in the air (see this MSDS, for example...sorry, no cool pictures).

Caffeine Material Safety Data Sheet.

Extract, Potential Health Effects: Ingestion: Toxic. The adult mean lethal dose is approximately 10 gm. Large doses may produce palpitation, excitement, insomnia, dizziness, headache and vomiting.

First off, osmium tetroxide is an irritant. Exposure is generally not permanently harmful.

You considerably understate the danger posed by this chemical.

I'll keep my rights right where they are, thank you.

I rather doubt that you really know exactly what your rights actually are under the law and constitution, where they begin and end, and when those rights can be superceded or suspended. You may recall a quote from Justice Goldberg that the Constitution "is not a suicide pact."

Well...titanium dioxide is widely used in paints already...it certainly beats lead, though it can be considered a mild health hazard:
titanium dioxide

Calcium carbonate, even in large quantities in dust form is not considered more hazardous:
calcium carbonate

-Tupshin

Said vapor containing significant amounts of phosgene [jtbaker.com] gas, which was one of the poisonous gases used in World War I. Most deadly because lethal exposurelevels were not noticed by soldiers until it was too late. http://lists.buffalonian.com/wnyhistory-digest/200 109/msg00040.html "(wnyhistory) The History of Chemical Warfare and Western New York and Phosgene Gas" Phosgene is a gas of high density, with an odor much like that of decaying hay or grain, is little, if at all, irritating to the eyes and has no irritant action on the skin. Its presence, therefore, was perceived with difficulty and men were gassed before they were aware of exposure in World War I, never even putting on their masks. In WWI it went by the names "creeping death" and "mustard gas". It is roughly 2-times heavier than air and would "creep" down into trenches, flowing down hills into low lying areas, including areas like the trenches dug by the troops for protection. When in the trenches victims at first did not realize they were breathing it in, thinking they were smelling fresh cut grass or hay breathed in deeply, thinking of home. They often "woke up dead" in the morning from what was called "dry land drowning" (pneumonia). The main producers in our area are VanDeMark Chemical and Twin Lakes Chemical. Of course we no longer produce such agents for war, and Phosgene
has a number of uses in modern industry including pharmaceuticals and plastics.
[ More info on that page ]

Said vapor containing significant amounts of phosgene gas, which was one of the poisonous gases used in World War I.

It won't take too many methanol spills on the carpeting for somebody to bail on the whole idea.

Here is a Material Safety Data Sheet for methanol, which list what you should do when you handle the stuff.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/s1634.htm

The MSDS link you posted is interesting, as is the Toxicity Info.

But I'm not a bio major. Can you tell me what the numbers translate to? How much caffeine in a cup of coffee? A penguin mint? Thanks.

Michael

The MSDS link you posted is interesting, as is the Toxicity Info.

But I'm not a bio major. Can you tell me what the numbers translate to? How much caffeine in a cup of coffee? A penguin mint? Thanks.

Michael

Hrmm...I've taken several chem labs, and wouldn't it be a good idea to let the caffinated water evaporate for a while? This will increase the caffene concentration by removing excess dillution media (i.e. water).

Oh, and FYI:
Caffeine MSDS
Caffeine Toxicity Info

I knew the bio major in me would be useful someday ;-)
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