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I was excited when it came on my new laptop, because I would get the opportunity to try a Windows word processor other than Word.

What a surprise. WordPro was the worst experience with a word processor I've had in a long time. Even getting the darned thing to select only the text I wanted was a chore. I was so disgusted after composing a nine page article that I uninstalled the whole thing.

Don't look for Lotus to bring good apps to Linux. For commercial efforts, stick with WordPerfect. For open source, KOffice looks very promising.

Have you tried KDE yet? The KDE filemanager, kfm, works reasonably well as a web browser, and has a much more IE-like appearance (whether that's an advantage or not is a matter of taste). When Opera appears for Linux, you might want to consider that too.

"I want to use software that doesn't suck." - ESR
"All software that isn't free sucks." - RMS

It really is shaping up to be a nice package. Already, at pre-alpha stage, you can see the vast improvement of konqueror over kfm. When you pick up an item in the current kfm, there is a noticeable delay, and some disk thrashing. When you pick up an konqueror object, *bang*, you have it immediately. The drag-and-drop should be very fast and smooth.

Currently, most things compile (the switch from Qt 1.4x to 2.x caused a bit of a setback in this regard, but it of course had to be done some time). I believe the current thought is to bundle KOffice with KDE 2.0. KOffice is shaping up to be a commercial-grade office productivity suite. KWord looks very, very nice, and should have most, if not all, of the functionality of the big boys (plus DTP functionality). KPresenter is a presentation program vis-a-vis PowerPoint. KIllustrator is a Corel Draw-type vector graphics program. There are a number of other smaller programs in there. The only thing that probably is a bit feature-starved (from my brief perusal of it) would be KSpread, the spreadsheet program. It's fairly simple, and doesn't have all the doo-dads of Excel or StarCalc.

All in all, KDE 2.0 will be a fantastic Unix desktop environment! As a subscriber to kde-devel, I can tell you that the KDE developers are serious about avoiding bloat whereever possible, and creating a desktop that anyone can use, not just programmers and/or sysadmins.

While a lot of people gripe about Microsoft's dominance, the KDE team, rather than complain, are doing something about it. KDE 2.0 (as well as GNOME) will definitely make Linux and Unix a desktop contender for the masses. And with the price advantage, I predict it will start putting the hurt on Microsoft's market share.

Needless, to say, I see it as a good thing. :-)

--

QT is a "GUI Toolkit" produced by a company called Troll Tech. A GUI Toolkit is a library that contains a framework for developing graphical applications. This prevents programmers from having to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, whenever a programmer needs to create a scrollbar in his/her application. QT is written in C++ and has the benefits that it's free for Open SourceTM use, has the source available, and is fairly handsome.

QT is the foundation upon which The K Desktop Environment and QT NetHack (of arguably greater importance) are built.

We need a full-featured, high quality GUI mail client. Perhaps KMail will get there eventually, but right now, it's too immature, and doesn't support IMAP (heck, it doesn't even support POP correctly yet).

Actually, if the XFMail guy would port his excellent mail program from XForms (yuk) to Qt/KDE and/or Gtk+/GNOME, it could be the answer. It is open source, so depending on the specific license (I don't recall how its licensed), someone else (maybe a group of people) could do it for him.

Although XFMail is butt-ugly (due to the afore-mentioned use of XForms), it is quite stable/full-featured, and does IMAP, POP, and local spool mail, multiple accounts, lots of filtering options, etc., etc. It's really a good program, and the author is one hell of a good programmer, as far as I can tell.

--
Get your fresh, hot kernels right here!

Look here for a collection of KDE books.

Especially the two books of Kalle (Qt and KDE) are really worth a look, and so are the programming books of Thiem and Lehner. For now, the Qt book is the only programming book I know of in English.

Oh yeah? Go take a look here, boy!

Even the first version of the QPL (0.90 IIRC) has been declared free software by RMS. He did, however, mention the 'patch clause' as an obstacle.

This patch 'requirement' has been changed into a 'recommendation', i.e. TrollTech recommends using patches (or CVS). The only requirement is that the new, non-TrollTech code be clearly marked as such.
That's nothing else than what the GPL requires (and is very sensible, as responsibilities for bugs and possible trojans are more obvious that way).

The QPL is pretty much like the GPL, and the main (or even only) reason why RMS thinks the current QPL is not GPL compatible, is that it doesn't allow 'secret' in-house improvements that aren't distributed outside e.g. a respective company.
This is, however, not a problem for average OSS developers, and IMHO it's rather a loophole in the GPL that it allows this than a flaw of the QPL.

To find the original sources please go to the Troll pages and the KDE licensing mailing list.

Matthias Ettrich wrote: With abiword and gnumeric there are now two overhyped gtk projects that both have a far superior counterpart in the KDE office suite.
...
Without wanting to discourage you: Do you really think that's worth it? I mean, Abiword right now can't do even half of what kword can do! Why fiddle around with these over-hyped C-sources without functionality, if kword is nicer designed, more powerful and object-oriented?

I don't know if I would call that "laying on the warm fuzzies." Please browse these list archives more. Cooperation does not appear to be one of Matthias's strong points, I would say.

But at least he knows exactly what users want most in a word processor: object oriented design!

Matthias Ettrich wrote: With abiword and gnumeric there are now two overhyped gtk projects that both have a far superior counterpart in the KDE office suite.
...
Without wanting to discourage you: Do you really think that's worth it? I mean, Abiword right now can't do even half of what kword can do! Why fiddle around with these over-hyped C-sources without functionality, if kword is nicer designed, more powerful and object-oriented?

I don't know if I would call that "laying on the warm fuzzies." Please browse these list archives more. Cooperation does not appear to be one of Matthias's strong points, I would say.

But at least he knows exactly what users want most in a word processor: object oriented design!

http://koffice.kde.org

"Release early, release often" yes but "less hype more substance" could also be said.

The shortcomings of the Linux kernel have been known for ages. Linux first appeared in late 1991. In early 1992 already Linus acknowledged that a microkernel design would have been better.

"True, linux is monolithic, and I agree that microkernels are nicer. [...] From a theoretical (and aesthetical) standpoint linux looses."

Man, this has to be one of the worst misrepresentations I have ever seen. Yes, Linus did write that in the famed "discussion" (really a flame) with Andrew Tannenbaum, but he was defending his architectural choice, not conceding a mistake.

Basically, the argument that popped up in the discussion was that a monolithic kernel is quicker and easier to implement.

If the GNU kernel had been ready last spring, I'd not have bothered to even start my project: the fact is that it wasn't and still isn't. Linux wins heavily on points of being available now. ---Linus

Anyway, people can go read the USENET thread in question themselves.

---

StarOffice, although not Free, is a decent, very full-featured, if somewhat bloated, office package, and includes presentation software.

Also, Corel has ported WordPerfect, and is porting the rest of their WordPerfect Office2000 suite, as far as I know.

Then, in the Free Software world, there is Siag Office and, of course, KOffice, which, while not finished, look promising.

So, we do have usable tools now, and great Free tools on the way.

--
Get your fresh, hot kernels right here!

First of, all check out the changelog because most of the changes to KFM have been listed there.

Secondly, if the problems are still there, go to bugs.kde.org and report them if necessary. This is important because KDE developers do not monitor Slashdot for bug reports.

As a user, your input is valuable, especially as this is an Open Source project. However, it would be good if you meet the developers half-way.

-N.

First of, all check out the changelog because most of the changes to KFM have been listed there.

Secondly, if the problems are still there, go to bugs.kde.org and report them if necessary. This is important because KDE developers do not monitor Slashdot for bug reports.

As a user, your input is valuable, especially as this is an Open Source project. However, it would be good if you meet the developers half-way.

-N.

Despite how Gnome advocates like to trumpet the use of CORBA in their DE, KDE would seem to have the most stable foundation to build on in the form of KOM/OpenParts.

I think it would be great to see both DE use this fantastic technology. With a standard implementation of KOM/OpenParts and a common DND protocol in use between the two projects, I believe that convergance or at least increased inoperability would be much closer. I fully acknowledge though that this is unlikely to happen in the near future as both camps are likely to be reluctant to change their ORB implementations and in particular the Gnome camp who have spent so long (needlessly IMO) implementing their own ORB.

On a somewhat unrelated note, although the KDE/Gnome debate may be far less vocal, there still exists a large bias towards Gnome by the story posters(CmdrTaco et al). /. freely acknowledges its bias towards Linux and open source/free/call it what you want projects, but the prejudice that would seem to exist against KDE is bad. KDE is a fantastic piece of work that deserves as much credit as all other projects and I think that CmdrTaco etc. should try to be more objective in their story posting and if they are going to announce every Gnome pre release they should also do the same for KDE.

I am a big fan of /. and it is one of the few web sites I read every day without fail. However, I think /. needs to overcome its bias lest it fall into the trap of forcing the opinions of a few on everyone, this is one sure way to lose readers.

Robert

You won't get a good perspective from reading the typical Slashflame(TM) on how these Desktop wars escalated.

If you want a historical perspective, I'd recommend that you go to http://lists.kde.org/, search for GNOME and read the messages circa 1997.

People like Alan Cox, Molnar Ingo, Miguel were involved in these wars. Here is a sample.

The birth of GNOME:
http://lists.kde.org/?t=88665907 200005&w=2&d=1&r=1

Alan Cox explains his view Qt situation:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=8866 5701714612&w=2

A lot of big FUD wars, and not so FUD wars, began. Mingo's message illustrates the gravity:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-u ser&m=88665837214455&w=2

All this leaves me sick to my stomach, but I had to speak out.

You won't get a good perspective from reading the typical Slashflame(TM) on how these Desktop wars escalated.

If you want a historical perspective, I'd recommend that you go to http://lists.kde.org/, search for GNOME and read the messages circa 1997.

People like Alan Cox, Molnar Ingo, Miguel were involved in these wars. Here is a sample.

The birth of GNOME:
http://lists.kde.org/?t=88665907 200005&w=2&d=1&r=1

Alan Cox explains his view Qt situation:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=8866 5701714612&w=2

A lot of big FUD wars, and not so FUD wars, began. Mingo's message illustrates the gravity:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-u ser&m=88665837214455&w=2

All this leaves me sick to my stomach, but I had to speak out.

You won't get a good perspective from reading the typical Slashflame(TM) on how these Desktop wars escalated.

If you want a historical perspective, I'd recommend that you go to http://lists.kde.org/, search for GNOME and read the messages circa 1997.

People like Alan Cox, Molnar Ingo, Miguel were involved in these wars. Here is a sample.

The birth of GNOME:
http://lists.kde.org/?t=88665907 200005&w=2&d=1&r=1

Alan Cox explains his view Qt situation:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=8866 5701714612&w=2

A lot of big FUD wars, and not so FUD wars, began. Mingo's message illustrates the gravity:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-u ser&m=88665837214455&w=2

All this leaves me sick to my stomach, but I had to speak out.

You won't get a good perspective from reading the typical Slashflame(TM) on how these Desktop wars escalated.

If you want a historical perspective, I'd recommend that you go to http://lists.kde.org/, search for GNOME and read the messages circa 1997.

People like Alan Cox, Molnar Ingo, Miguel were involved in these wars. Here is a sample.

The birth of GNOME:
http://lists.kde.org/?t=88665907 200005&w=2&d=1&r=1

Alan Cox explains his view Qt situation:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=8866 5701714612&w=2

A lot of big FUD wars, and not so FUD wars, began. Mingo's message illustrates the gravity:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-u ser&m=88665837214455&w=2

All this leaves me sick to my stomach, but I had to speak out.

It's one thing to publish legitimate criticim like yours about memory consumtion (albeit Gnome with some applets uses more mem then KDE 1.1 -much better than 1.0 in this respect- with me), but this case is different.

What the first poster mentioned is the fact that Slashdot deliberately published anything that harms KDE, even if it is definitely not "Stuff that matters", like in this case.

Be it slander, libel, RedHat influence, character assasination or Rob's personal preference, but it's pretty obvious that *really* important things about KDE don't come up on Slashdot at all, like

KOM/OpenParts
KOffice (except for one article)
KDE 2 features and screenshots

I'd appreciate if Rob gave credit were credit is due...

"effeminate", I think not.
With the red KDE scarf and all, there is no mistaking him as a "cute little guy".
At least that is what I see. Rather, THIS is what I see.

Though I do feel that the eye brows need to be something other than just floating haloes.

And in other KDE news. The first version of the KDE style plugin interface (aka Theme support) has been released. You can find more information about it here.

And in other KDE news. The first version of the KDE style plugin interface (aka Theme support) has been released. You can find more information about it here.

And in other KDE news. The first version of the KDE style plugin interface (aka Theme support) has been released. You can find more information about it here.

And in other KDE news. The first version of the KDE style plugin interface (aka Theme support) has been released. You can find more information about it here.

KDE is about to relase 1.1.1 with 2.0 already looking very promising. All releases of KDE have been very stable and easy to install.

Once again in the comments above we see some of the FUD surrounding KDE rear its ugly head. For the record:

• You can use any Window Manager you like with KDE. See the screenshots page on their web site to see KDE running with other window managers.

• KDEs use of CORBA is far more advanced than Gnomes. As one poster says Gnomes use of CORBA in the panel achieves little more than WindowMaker has been doing without CORBA for years.

  To see just how advanced KDEs use of CORBA is check out KOM/OpenParts. KDE 2.0 will integrate the KOM technology throughout all of its applications. For those among you who like to see working code and not just talk, check out KOffice. This technology is very real and here today!

• KDE does not have to look like Windows and contrary to the first posters comment that Corel chose KDE because it does look like it, Corel merely say that it may be configured to look like Windows.

• I agree that KDE may not be as themeable as many people, inlcuding me, would like. KDE 2.0 will be based on Qt 2.0 (you know, that free toolkit) which should be properly themeable.

So join in CmdrTaco and applaud the KDE team for their work in putting a friendly face on Linux.

KDE is about to relase 1.1.1 with 2.0 already looking very promising. All releases of KDE have been very stable and easy to install.

Once again in the comments above we see some of the FUD surrounding KDE rear its ugly head. For the record:

• You can use any Window Manager you like with KDE. See the screenshots page on their web site to see KDE running with other window managers.

• KDEs use of CORBA is far more advanced than Gnomes. As one poster says Gnomes use of CORBA in the panel achieves little more than WindowMaker has been doing without CORBA for years.

  To see just how advanced KDEs use of CORBA is check out KOM/OpenParts. KDE 2.0 will integrate the KOM technology throughout all of its applications. For those among you who like to see working code and not just talk, check out KOffice. This technology is very real and here today!

• KDE does not have to look like Windows and contrary to the first posters comment that Corel chose KDE because it does look like it, Corel merely say that it may be configured to look like Windows.

• I agree that KDE may not be as themeable as many people, inlcuding me, would like. KDE 2.0 will be based on Qt 2.0 (you know, that free toolkit) which should be properly themeable.

So join in CmdrTaco and applaud the KDE team for their work in putting a friendly face on Linux.

KDE is about to relase 1.1.1 with 2.0 already looking very promising. All releases of KDE have been very stable and easy to install.

Once again in the comments above we see some of the FUD surrounding KDE rear its ugly head. For the record:

• You can use any Window Manager you like with KDE. See the screenshots page on their web site to see KDE running with other window managers.

• KDEs use of CORBA is far more advanced than Gnomes. As one poster says Gnomes use of CORBA in the panel achieves little more than WindowMaker has been doing without CORBA for years.

  To see just how advanced KDEs use of CORBA is check out KOM/OpenParts. KDE 2.0 will integrate the KOM technology throughout all of its applications. For those among you who like to see working code and not just talk, check out KOffice. This technology is very real and here today!

• KDE does not have to look like Windows and contrary to the first posters comment that Corel chose KDE because it does look like it, Corel merely say that it may be configured to look like Windows.

• I agree that KDE may not be as themeable as many people, inlcuding me, would like. KDE 2.0 will be based on Qt 2.0 (you know, that free toolkit) which should be properly themeable.

So join in CmdrTaco and applaud the KDE team for their work in putting a friendly face on Linux.

As Millenium is obviously a GNOME user who has used KDE only occasionally, I will try to reply to his points.
For some more comprehensive - and maybe objective - comparisons, you mau consider looking at Ars Technica about KDE, Mininco about GNOME (sorry, has vanished), and Predawnia for a comparison.
Another GNOME article is on Linuxworld.
Interestingly, only the entirely positive articles about GNOME are posted on Slashdot.

Now for the points mentioned above:
Stability
I've never had either Gnome or KDE crash my machine.
So So you're either very lucky or very lazy. Look at the newsgroups, mailing lists and reviews and you'll see people are *very* annoyed about GNOME's instability. Look at the Predawnia article for more.

functionality
In terms of functionality KDE excels in areas Gnome does not, but Gnome too is way ahead of KDE in some areas. I'd call it a flat-out draw in that area.
Sorry, but that's an illusion. KDE offers undoubtedly more functionality, if you look at productivity features.
You may argue that for technology (CORBA) and eyecandy (widget themes), but there you should compare GNOME -at least until it is really stable- to the most recent KDE, and KOffice technology, which is far ahead of GNOME (CORBA object model technology working for many months, while Baboon isn't even finished).

Looks
In terms of looks I doubt anyone can argue against the assertion that Gnome wins, so I won't go into that one here.
You are using geeks' standards here: GNOME looks screamingly flashy (what I'd call kitsch; maybe cool for you). KDE looks cleaner and more elegant. All that is a matter of taste. Look at kde.t.o for WM themes or these brand new icons!

Speed and Resources
Now, we come to speed. [...] KWM is a BIG problem for KDE; it makes E look stunningly fast and stable.[...]
Now there's the matter of resources. I'm afraid Gnome wins it here. It appears to use far less in the way of resources than KDE does.
This was probably true for KDE 1.0, it's certainly wrong for KDE 1.1. This is *much* faster and leaner than KDE 1.0.
As for resources: Surely you're joking Mr Mil! GNOME needs 3 times as much diskspace than KDE (for about the same functionality), and GNOME panel applets eat memory like crazy! (But that's partly a general problem of CORBA, not so much GNOME's fault)
Besides that, many WM are already KDE aware, so you can use Window Maker, Afterstep, or the lean blackbox or flwm if you find KWM too bulky.
As much as I love the eyecandy of Enlightenment, saying that E is faster/more stable than KWM is IMHO fiction instead of fact...

Toolkits
Raw toolkits: Strip out the desktop environments, and GTK wins out over Qt. This is simply a matter of functionality: GTK offers more than a few things which you can't get with Qt alone.
I don't know where you get this information from. Even gtk advocate concede that QT is way ahead in terms of productive features, simply because they started earlier. Take e.g. printing, a pretty basic thing: gtk doesn't offer the respective widgets yet, while it is very easy to implement with QT. (And with all due respect, having pinnable or themable toolbar is not such a top priority).
More importantly, we're talking about QT 1.4x here. QT 2 is currently in late beta, and it offers many major improvements.
Don't get me wrong, gtk is a nice toolkit, and I'd love to see KDE support for it (like for fltk and tcl/tk), but we should stay realistic.

Programming Language
The language issue is irrelevant; several C++ bindings exist for GTK and a set of C bindings is being worked on for Qt
You are not an OO programmer, I presume. There is a big difference whether you have OO bindings or a entirely OO structure. Many Object Oriented features (overloading, inheritance etc.) are restricted if you have just bindings.
Making a OO lib like QT "flat" by offering a procedural interface (like C) is easier, but many C advocates will still say it's not the ideal solution (less efficient that plain C etc.)
Thus, Gtk is still the best choice for C, and QT for OOP and C++ programming. As OOP is more appropriate for GUIs, things look maybe a bit better for QT, but with the large C coder base on Linux, this may still be a draw.

Conclusion: Due to the longer development period, KDE is undoubtedly ahead of GNOME in terms of stability, maturity and productivity. It's much better than its reputation among geeks.
GNOME does a good job in offering a more individual and artistic look, so it is well suited for experiments at home.

KDE is free (as in no cost) for commercial use.

The applications are GPL'd. The libs are LGPL'd with the exception of QT which is QPL'd.

You could even distribute proprietary apps for KDE (though you would have to pay Troll Tech a grand).

I wouldn't say the KDE is free (as in freedom), but that isn't saying much as I wouldn't say that the GPL gives you freedom either. (As it attempts to restrict proprietary derivative distributions, privacy loophole excepted)

BTW QT 2.0 (which KDE 2.0 is based on) is fully themeable. KDE 1.1 can be made to look pretty as the kde easter egg
shows.

it was my impression that fvwm, kde, enlightenment etc all do the same thing as GNOME (they all are xwindows managers right?)

Wrong. "fvwm" and Enlightenment are window managers; KDE and Gnome are collections of a bunch of pieces of software, including:

• a window manager (KDE has "kwm"; Gnome may not have an official window manager, but, as I remember, Enlightenment was packaged with the RPMs I saw);
• a file manager;
• libraries that add stuff over and above the raw window system toolkit;
• GUI applications to let you configure various things;
• various other things.

People can argue about whether that stuff is useful, but it's difficult to argue that it's not there....

See the What is KDE? document and the GNOME User's Guide for more details.

I personally don't need all that extra stuff so I just use WindowMaker. So I don't have any files on my desktop, because I don't have that functionality (don't miss it, reminds me too much of winbloze and Macintosh, mac isn't quite as bad, but I still won't use one as my personal computer).

This whole thing is about choice. You choose your GUI based on what you need. Check out the feature listings, go read up on a couple of these proggies, gnome stuff is at www.gnome.org and KDE is based at www.kde.org. I personally use WindowMaker, refered to earlier as "GNUstep." They all have their advantages, they all are extremely configurable, check out themes.org, and pay special attention to OctoberX's stuff (he's one of /.'s).

So I guess what all the hubbub is about, is that we pick what our GUI looks like and how it reacts to our commands. It is a huge matter of personal needs and preferences. There isn't anything forced on us. SuSE comes configured to run KDE, but I changed when I decided I didn't like it. Like the distro wars, one's choice of GUI can get to be pretty personal and some users tend to get pretty emotional about their particular window manager.

ph43drus

Why shouldn't Linux get a crack at the same competition and refinement that Windows had some years ago?

I remember some ages-past article about "The Dueling Suites" in PC Computing which actually compared Office with SmartSuite and Corel (who's that?) Of course, MS won the top reviews throughout the article with strong wording, "hands down" or something similar.

Microsoft sycophants they may have been, but I personally feel that Word was a stronger product at the time, with a cleaner interface, more customizable, and easier to use. I know there's probably going to be someone posting a reply about "I loved SmartSuite, still use it even though corporate's gone office" or something, but I still feel that Office improved faster than its competitiors. Just like how MS whipped its programmers into making IE faster than Netscape.

Word, having overtaken Wordperfect and Ami Pro, went on to become the virus it is today.

Microsoft would not have done half the refinement and improvement they put into Word were there no competition from Lotus and Wordperfect - Borland - Corel.

For now, it's usability and basic features that drive the development of KOffice, AbiWord, lyx, etc. but I think that ego and a quest for popularity would be good for driving future enhancements.

Besides, multiple word processors leaves open the possiblity that they will fill different niches, instead of emulating Word's one-bloat-fits-all approach.

www.us.kde.org/kscreenshots.html

Please, please, when advocating Gnome, stick to the facts at least. Gnome isn't so crappy anymore that it needs such FUD tactics to survive.

might suddenly require me to pay TrollTech money

You NEVER, I repeat NEVER have to pay money as a user or distributor.
When your app is free software you'll NEVER pay anything either.
Both is assured by the KDE Free Qt Foundation, which is a binding contract for TrollTech.

Qt 2.0 (under QPL) IS Free Software, according to RMS and the FSF. You can download a beta version of it now from troll.no.

Qt 2.0 has theme support, which is IMHO vastly superior and more flexible than Gtk's current one (which is more a quick-and-dirty hack, and will likely be improved in future versions)

Once again: With Qt 2.0, it's time to rethink your positions and to focus on technical issues.

It has been reported that Ms Lewinsky will be questioned about her role in the KDE case.

Indepoendent prosecutor Starr has accused KDE of lack of ideological purity recently, just after he joined the Church of Emacs.

Newspapers have labeled this the Desktopwater case, and it was assumed that it will have an impact on the DOJ vs MS case as well.


(BTW, look at the KDE homepage for scanned copies of the documents.

To help those newbies:

www.linux.org

sunsite.unc.edu/mdw

www.stardivision.com

www.redhat.com

www.kde.org

www.gnome.org

www.cheapbytes.com

www.freshmeat.net

www.xnet.com/~blatura/linapps.shtml

OK So I'm somewhat biased... :)

"Linux sucks. But Linux sucks less." - JWZ