Slashdot Mirror

Slashdot is Slashdot. It are what it are and it ain't what it ain't. I have always liked it the way it is, and hope like hell it never loses its character by trying to be something it isn't.

- Robin

Interesting opinions, considering that you're well known as a troll.

I'd disagree with some points though, I think that the trolls keep this shithole open.

Without trolls, this place would be as bland as kuro5hin. K5 has good discussion, but no character, no soul.

Deleting posts is censorship - something Taco has promised never to stoop to (and much respect to him for that). Also, bad moderation could then remove valuable posts forever. Will you claim that all Slashdot moderation is good?

One useful change could be to remove the 'Insightful' moderation option, as it is rarely used correctly. A simple point up or point down should suffice, especially considering that some posts are eg. both funny and informative.

Comments are owned by the poster, so the posters then collectively share responsibility, through answers and moderation, for making sure that meaningful viewpoints are aired and responded to. This works exceedingly well at Slashdot, not so well in other online forums.

Kuro5hin runs on the Scoop engine. Each posted article seems to have its own poll, if I'm not mistaken.

I like how they've set this up. You post questions as comments in the forum. Harry chooses to answer 5 of the question every day until Thursday. Because of the continuing nature of the interview, it will allow for follow-up questions.

Given the high volume of questions already, I think some people are going to be disappointed that their question won't be answered.

I like how they've set this up. You post questions as comments in the forum. Harry chooses to answer 5 of the question every day until Thursday. Because of the continuing nature of the interview, it will allow for follow-up questions.

Given the high volume of questions already, I think some people are going to be disappointed that their question won't be answered.

This whole episode makes me very sad.

Me too. In fact I used those same words when this article showed up on Kuro5hin recently. Actually, I'm quite disappointed that this even showed up on Slashdot, because this can only lend credence to Jorrit's apparent belief that he has done something useful for the hacker community with this interview.

RMS made a few simple meta-requests for this interview, and Jorrit abided by absolutely none of them. In fact, a number of statements almost seem to be calculated to have the precise effect of pissing RMS off, which is odd, since this whole affair was ostensibly for the purpose of getting helpful advice from him. I'm proud of RMS for exercising the amount of patience and control that he did.

Anyway, I would urge you to read my comment at the time, linked this way in case /. screws up the links again: ht tp: //www.kuro5hin.org/?op=comments;sid=2000/10/10/319 24/280;pid=0;cid=26#26

Set yourself up with an e-gold account and use that for your transactions, banks as they are now, are only interested in shareholder profits, not customers at all.

cya, Andrew...

Yay! 575 is back!!!
--
There is no K5 cabal.

I have just one link for you: this.
--
There is no K5 cabal.

Imposter! I'm the real not rusty!
--
There is no K5 cabal.

Programmers have also been writing code with abstraction layers for a long, long time, too.

Not everything requires that you get down to the bare metal and work with OS-specific libraries.
--
There is no K5 cabal.

Who are these "We" people you speak of? If you want story moderation privleges, go to Kuro5hin and stop whining on here. It's always been about stuff that interests Taco, Hemos, &co (not getting into andover.net stuff here), and that's how it is.

Personally, I like the posted site better than the Artisan one, but sometimes I'll also shake my head and wonder what the slashdot authors were thinking... but then I move on.

We want our story moderation priveleges now!

Problem description: Random individual is not pleased with a certain story on Slashdot.

Solution: Advised said random individual to either read another thread, go read the site where people refer to Slashdot as "the other site", or to plain right get lost.

Next!!

I can really identify with you, so much.

• I love how interesting articles get abandoned yet repeat articles get posted.. I really don't understand.

Alex Bischoff
---

RedHat doesn't suck after all?

:-)

--fred

See this kuro5hin thread.

Specifically:

A quick check on RedHats Bugzilla the day of the Slashdot post revealed something on the order of 120 bugs relating to RH7 directly. Most were low severity. Even today checking RedHat 7 with all packages only yeilds 269 bugs total (no enhancement or translation requests).
The 2500 bugs quoted in /. was including all apps, all versions, and included feature enhancement requests etc. Basically whoever did the search on Bugzilla didn't know how the search form worked and didn't bother to figure it out. (Giving the benefit of the doubt that they were not being malicious.)

The posting up there is relevant (if mis-sectioned maybe even belonging on scoop) because this whole episode shows that these community news/discussion sites have some pull in real world news and events. The story there did some real damage to Red Hat (at least PR wise) and it's basis was in inaccurate data that could have been easily checked (took me 2 minutes) If it had been checked at all (by the original poster or by the reviewer) it would have been prevented. It is something that must be considered when designing site review and submission issues as well as the whole culture bit. I think in this case slash should help Red Hat cover the PR damage done either via a story, interview or retraction.


--

The first databases referred to as the BuzzwordsDB contains a pleothera of keywords and/or phrases which have been psychologically analyzed to induce high amounts of incinedary textual conversation. These words are hand-picked for the consumer by deploying a team of TROLLs (The-Really-Obnoxious-Laughing-Lusers) to the consumer's website beforehand. Examples: "Angst", "Teen", "Geek", "Technology", "American."

The second database, hitherto known as the HeadLineDB, contains the data which the first portion of any JonKatz RANT shall be constituted of. The HeadLineDB is generated via the concatenation of the BuzzwordDB and a random current-event. Examples include: "Voices from the Hellmouth" and "Why Kids Kill."

The lexical routines used by a JonKatz to generate a complete and incoherant RANT are based on neural-network technology. This neural-network is trained at the National YHBT Laboratories, on massive HTGRTS/UX machines. Here, the JonKatz is exposed to endless ramblings and diatribes on a wide-range of equally insomnia-curing topics. The TROLLs, having completed their work, then add their results to the mix in order to generate a personally-tailored JonKatz.

In order to test the JonKatz's efficency, it is sent to a covert testing facility and run through three basic trials:

The First-Post test stresses the JonKatz's speed, responsiveness and improvisational capabilities.

The Karma-Whore test elucidates the JonKatz's ability to appeal & entice its audience, while simultaneously having no idea what it is saying. (This ability is used extensively in real-world JonKatz deployment, and thus is weighted more heavily.)

Finally, the Hot Grits Test demonstrates the JonKatz's ability to enrage and otherwise pester a large portion of its audience, while at the same time entertaining a microcosmic minority.

After this rigorous testing and conditioing is finished, the completed JonKatz is shipped to a needy customer.

to (-1, Flamebait).

Oh wait, you can't moderate articles like you can in Kuro5hin, can you?

Never mind. Just moderate this comment then.

From this recent kuro5hin discussion, PETA themselves would get upset about this.

Err, I guess the PETA we're talking about is here.

--

George Bush Loves You and Al Gore Loves You.

Isn't that nice?

All I want is to say I have a ``Duron-Duron'' setup...

And I ran, ran so far away...

And if I rack up enough puns here, I may not need to go to Kuro5hin today.

what I got from the article was that the 4 major commercial distros were looking to standardizing on the base install issues (e.g. following the linux standard directory structure, making sure new packages go into the right places, having certain services and security features on/off by default), such that 1) the base for all 4 distros is common and strongly documented and 2) the 4 distros would no longer be competing at the OSS level, but at the service and support and additional features level.

Hmm. This is kind of what I was suggesting in this Kuro5hin rant. Basically, I suggested that distributions adopt a common filesystem layout and packaging specification. Glad to see that things are moving towards this end.

And... if you want to know why I'm glad, perhaps you should read the rant. I'm not going to repeat myself :)

Here. Altough it's not nearly as nasty as some people would make it appear.

If you want the unedited version of what went on in #forum and a couple of other channels, I put my irc logs up here (have a look at the trollish /quit messages in forum, they're just too funny).

have fun.

This really surprised me:

CmdrTaco: Signal 11 is an idiot.

I think it's pretty clear to /. readers that Signal 11 is not an idiot. A karma whore? Sure, but I'm certain there are people who enjoy reading his comments occasionally. After all, they do get moderated up quite frequently (I suppose this is where you could argue that the moderation system is broken).

CmdrTaco: I am not a corporate drone (despite what the conspiracy theorists think).

I think it's pretty clear that Rob is saying what he feels. But I think it's gotten to the point where it's unprofessional. Why attack one person with name-calling in a public forum? As others have said, Slashdot has entered the "big time" - much more so now with the aquisition by Andover. I think one thing that needs to stop is the unprofessional behavior by some of the Slashdot staff. Calling your posters idiots or interjecting unfounded opinions while reporting a news story is truly a black eye on this forum.

I'm not trying to defend Signal 11, I'm just saying that CmdrTaco and the /. team really have bigger fish to fry. So what if Sig is a karma whore? There are much bigger problems in the moderation system and with trolls (although I don't think the moderation system is irrepairably broken).

Since I don't want to be one of those people who complains about a problem but doesn't offer a solution, I'll say this: I think Kuro5hin's moderation system is pretty good. Instead of me giving a comment an extra point with a +1 moderation, I'd like to be able to say, "this comment deserves a +3." I do get the feeling, though, that /. doesn't want to move to that kind of moderation system in part because of pride. But pride shouldn't stand in the way of a better system.

Kuro5hin is running an article/A& gt; about a geek that did the same thing and he is getting sympathy....

Firstly it's RIPA, not RIP, and you could have at least made a lame `Rest in Peace` joke.

I prefered the olden days when hordes of people with more swords than you ruled commoners like titans. It was so much more clean-cut and thrust.

I just love the wording: "gaining routine access to business communications".... oh, so long as they're business communications and not personal. "[caller consent required bar] activities such as downloading pornography)"... I love pornography and it's a protected right.

Honestly, this Kuro5hin article summed up the points better than I ever could.

For the record, no, the above isn't me. Damn, I don't need to make a Bruce Perens .sig now, do I?

--
There is no K5 cabal.

Now, on to the meat of my comment. ASCII is not acceptable as evidence in a court of law, and I hope the slashdotters won't accept it either. I could have written that entire log myself. Mind you, I didn't.

Another version is available on kuroshin. Now I have no idea how many people have access to this server, but if I were rusty I wouldn't want to tarnish my domain's reputation by posting a fake.

And according to the log, he was on the channel at that time.

That being said, I praise your skepticism. The conspiracy nuts must be going crazy right now (no wait, they are already)

oops, I previewed and still the html got munched, the link is here.

Post it to somewhere that actually cares, like kuro5hin.

Additionally, keep resubmitting it until either Taco-boy gets the message or your accouint gets puled.

Um...what about the Signal 11 vs. CmdrTaco IRC chat that's floating around. Is that true? I think you should confirm or deny that rumor here on /., because not all of us will be on IRC tonight.

My own opinion about /. is...you don't have a moderation problem, you have a spamming problem. kuro5hin deletes spam posts, and I think most of us here wouldn't mind at all if you just got rid of the garbage posts. IMO, that's the main difference. I'm not saying moderation doesn't need to be improved, but the spam posts are definitely the biggest problem.

I watch the sea.
I saw it on TV.

Goddamn it! Anytime I forget to preview. Here's the actual HTML: Sure thing dude.

http://images.kuro5hin.org/kuro5hin_Sig11_vs_Taco. html

If that doesn't turn your stomache, I don't know what would. As long as I'm posting more crap, here's an interesting conversation on Slashdot itself (set your threshold down to view it though).

Thread of doom!

Actually, I left in my settings so you can view it.

Real fans of the series already knew this. This is old news and everyone has known about it for a long time. But that isn't really the problem, the real problem is all the lame jokes people will make about Life, The Universe and Everything in the comments section. I'd like some insight or something, not a bunch of lame "42" jokes. Slashdot's quality has gone from decent to piss poor in the past several months. I find kuro5hin to be much more interesting, and people actually try to make sense there. The site promotes discussion, not lame jokes and stupid trolls. Slashdot, you have failed us yet again.

This /. story and the corresponding CNN article contain some vague or incorrect statements...

• The Nasdaq.com web site was vulnerable, not the whole Nasdaq computer system. This is still a major risk as many investors rely on that web site for their online transaction, but hacking the web site is not the same thing as changing the stock values at the source.
• The hacker states that he has not used the July 17 exploit that is mentioned on BugTraq. Maybe he used the same security hole with a different exploit, maybe not. I suspect that he has just written his own version of the exploit for the same bug, but it is hard to know.
• The hacker did not release enough information about the security hole, so I would not call him a "white hat" because he could still use his exploit against other sites if they are vulnerable. So I would only call him "half-ethical".
• (off-topic) Everyone should read this and this and think about how /. has evolved since the introduction of the moderation system. I tend to agree with Signal11 (not for everything and not for some of his past actions, but he is mostly right in his description of the Slashdot problems).

This /. story and the corresponding CNN article contain some vague or incorrect statements...

• The Nasdaq.com web site was vulnerable, not the whole Nasdaq computer system. This is still a major risk as many investors rely on that web site for their online transaction, but hacking the web site is not the same thing as changing the stock values at the source.
• The hacker states that he has not used the July 17 exploit that is mentioned on BugTraq. Maybe he used the same security hole with a different exploit, maybe not. I suspect that he has just written his own version of the exploit for the same bug, but it is hard to know.
• The hacker did not release enough information about the security hole, so I would not call him a "white hat" because he could still use his exploit against other sites if they are vulnerable. So I would only call him "half-ethical".
• (off-topic) Everyone should read this and this and think about how /. has evolved since the introduction of the moderation system. I tend to agree with Signal11 (not for everything and not for some of his past actions, but he is mostly right in his description of the Slashdot problems).

Yeah, of course. The other site is Kuro5hin. On there Slashdot is refered to as the other site, so I thought that if you'd been there you'd get the reference.

Try it out though.

What would you like to see more of?
-- I would like to see more political stories.
What would you like to see less of?
-- FUD coming from our camp.

I think this is called Kuro5hin.

If .slash was registered, .slash. would exist, obviously.

This is also good for defeating most internet filters...

-tsunake

Hey hey, another idea stolen from Kuro5hin! Well, not exactly, but close enough. Kuro5hin has Mojo now. Way cooler than /. . Go there. You know you want to :)

Linux is only Free if your time is worth Nothing

Hey hey, another idea stolen from Kuro5hin! Well, not exactly, but close enough. Kuro5hin has Mojo now. Way cooler than /. . Go there. You know you want to :)

Linux is only Free if your time is worth Nothing

But yeah... I think readers should be able to vote a story as "old". To avoid trolls from taking over, perhaps preference could be given to people whose ratio of offtopic-votes to comment-posts is lower.
--

Looks like he's already found a new home.

We read about this, didn't we kids?

"1. Every good work of software starts by scratching a developer's personal itch." Far fetched? Hear me out.

Slashdot, Vanguard (according to Katz, anyway) of the Geek Culture, is a victim of it's own success. I started here not long after Linux hit the mainstream, just as I got curious about the "new OS in town". Seemed like a nice spot. I think a search engine link brought me here. My first post was some drivel about how Linux zealots were being hipocrytes - they wanted users, but only the smart ones, and that wasn't how to complete the "World Domination" they craved. My little diatribe seemed well recieved, and caused a good discussion to happen - so I created my account and have stuck around. (Actually, IIRC, my response was to a someone slagging Kats when he was trying to install Linux on his laptop - and Taco helped him with it. Ironic, eh?) It seems I've watched /. go downhill ever since. Why? Simple - the human need for acceptance. This, faithful Slashdot Readers, Friends, Moderators, Karma Whores and Trolls, is the itch that /. scratches.

The one thing that always strikes one full in the face about the "geek culture" is that it's real currency is Intellect, and the display thereof. CmdrTaco, in his infinite wisdom, put a real, monetary value to the intellegence displayed by we people who post - Karma points - instead of measuring them by the quality of the thread created. Now, intead of soliciting replies in order to get lively debate, discussion and possibly New Clues, we solicit Karma. Karma, so we don't look like idiots to our peers. Or, if we figure that we don't rate, and haven't got the chance to, we troll or pop in as an AC - to hopefully deflect some of the moderators away from putting other people's "Inellect" ahead of our own. Signal 11 is right - it's now a contest to see who can win the title of "Most Intellegent Geek", not "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters" - we all seem to want scratch our itch to be viewed as "Intelligent" to our peers.

No Slashdot account with a cool nic? You're just not in the game anymore, man. Don't run Linux? Further damage to your credibility. Only 3 Karma points? HAHAHHAH, you're either a moron or a Micr$oft shill, dude!

Personally, it's getting to the point that I don't give a flying fuck about my Karma anymore. +1 Bonus? Who cares. It'll just be drowned out in the rush to be first with some sort of incredibly pendantic navel gazing that we've all heard before. "Preaching to the Chior" indeed.

At least I don't have to sort through C/Net, ZDNet,Kiro5hin or the BBC to get to the importatnt stuff anymore - just the repeat stories here. VA - you've been HAD.

"Thank you for your post. That'll be 5.95 in Karma, buddy"

Think about it this way: What insentive do I have to post meaningful posts? Both in the responses I get, but also in the moderation. If what I say is good, I'll get moderated up. If it's meaningless, down. (Well, not really. Signal 11 did a good job proving that moderation didn't work.)

However, now, I'm at 50 karma. Every once and a while, it'll go down, but sooner or later, I'll hit the cap anymore. Theres no incentive for me to attempt to post anything meaningful anymore. I'm stuck at 50. In fact, I've actually tried to troll a few times just to take a karma hit so that I could watch it go up again! It's just not worth it to attempt to be meaningful, because there's really no reward.

On this topic, there's also no reward for moderating. In fact, there's a penalty! So moderators, thanks to M2, have to remain "goodthinkful," and can't moderate correctly. M2 was probably one of the biggest assets to Siggy's karma whoring.

Maybe Kuro5hin can come up with a working moderation system, complete with karma. The system on Slashdot is broken. The karma barrier made it worse.

Why do you stay? Why do you still post so much here? What's the point?

--
There is no K5 cabal.

I don't criticize slashdot to be fashionable, I do it when I think slashdot could improve. It's been a while since there's been any improvement here, mainly because of that kind of attitude toward criticism. Dude, think about it, if people care enough to criticise, why are you flaming them?

No, I don't care at all about upward moderation. I don't moderate here, I hardly ever post here (my user page has one comment showing right now-- well, two by the time you read this), so what does upward moderation get me?

And, I'd find you comments that misunderstood, but I'm on a modem, and I can't get the story to load before the server times me out, so no dice there. FWIW, the ones that misunderstood were indeed of the dumb, "didn't read the article" variety. No argument there.

Anyway, I'd have to rate your comment -1, Flamebait. Chill, out, man.

--
There is no K5 cabal.

This also reduces the effect of 'muliple account moderation' that is done. Lets say i have five accounts, at any given time 2 of them will have moderator privileges (not accurate, i know, but stick with me). When i comment, i log in with the two accounts and +1 it for a total of +2. If i already do this enough, i will post with a +1 basic and the grand total will be a +4 for an average comment. Again, with averages instead of flat bonuses a couple people can remove this advantage i have.

-Elendale (see the .sig)