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RH7 Crashes In Three Weeks (But Fixed)
Herz writes: "I got this email today from Red Hat. RH7 will crash out of the box in 3 weeks! The new Update Agent provided with Red Hat Linux 7.0 contains a daemon, rhnsd, which periodically polls Red Hat Network for updates. This daemon leaks file descriptors. On a default installation, all available file descriptors will be used by rhnsd in approximately three weeks, making the system unusable." The Red Hat folks have also provided a fix, though -- updated packages for those who want to use their update network, and the two-line method of disabling per machine for those who don't. After all, everyone wants uptime > 3 weeks, eh? And you don't need to wait for a "service pack," either.
If only the fix had been released earlier, perhaps the Update Agent could have repaired itself before anyone knew anything was amiss.
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
L33t-est is clearly BSD. You are a la/\/\3r.
Down with GNU. Long live the ENL.
Actually, that's not the problem. The problem is that probably none of the beta testers would have bothered to leave this particular service enabled since there wouldn't BE any updates to check for prior to release. Sure it's an oversight, but it's not like it reformats your hard drive or allows doubleclick.net to view your persiankitty.com cookies or opens your box to a root exploit.
I do not have a signature
RH4.2 was the most stable release in my experience. It has been going downhill ever since: loads of buggy little 'system tools' that do the Wrong Thing 90% of the time, messy package dependencies that cause unnecessary bloat (there was a time when you could do a 'base' install in under 30MB, try that now!), packages built with all the wrong options, etc etc etc...
:-(
:-(
Unfortunately most other distributions I've tried (yes, that includes debian) are guilty of the same sins, to varying degrees.
Linux has been dumbed down *way* too much lately. Yes, it works (mostly) fine out of the box if you just want a desktop box and never want to install any additional software or integrate it into a slightly complex network. If you want to do any real work (rather than looking at the pretty buttons in gnome/kde/whatever) you end up removing half the installed system and rebuilding from source
Anyone care to suggest a low-LL linux distribution? I would switch to *BSD if that didn't mean that half my hardware would stop working
By all means try FreeBSD, but don't think all Linux distributions are as bad as Red Hat. Red Hat's well known as releasing buggy x.0 software. If you simply must have Red Hat, wait for the point release. Otherwise, might I suggest taking a look at Debian, Slackware or SuSE?
What?!?!?! you mean it crashes in three weeks? THREE weeks???? this has got to be a major breakthrough! I use win2000, and it's absolutely great, it can stay on and up for, like, four days and i was very impressed the first time i saw this, me coming from nt4 and all, but THREE weeks? i gotta get me one of those!...
i'd heard that linux was good but damn!.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
one word my friend. Slackware
Like the other poster said, it was real. It was pretty much a 'don't care' bug though -- whoever heard of a 98 box staying up that long anyway?
:-)
I'm lucky to get 48 hours, much less 48 days!
no doubt... i can just see it now... all these redhat systems are running along fine (after the patch to the updating system) and they auto-update a "bug-free" package with a new version that has some bugs and BOOM! all redhat systems go down at once. heh, that would be pretty funny for everyone who wasn't affected. MS would definitely incorporate that one into their marketing.
Contrariwise, I would prefer the system to bog down and require user intervention in that case, rather than just ransomly reset. At least then the user could see the need for the reset, save important files, sync disks, etc. This is in the case of a personal workstation or a server. If it really becomes a pain the user can easily script something to reset the machine at predicable intervals.
In some cases in the telecom industry it's better to reset quickly and come back up, but I'm not sure that RH7 is being used for those sorts of things...
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Stop talking out of your ass before posting. First the 49 day uptime bug affects win95 and win95a not NT4 as you suggested. The file that causes this comes with the default install and is easily fixed with an upgrade.
Now according to your FUD every NT box must be rebooted every 49 days? I don't think so. We have windows boxes at work that get many months of uptime.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
- \\NTMACHINE has been up for: 36 day(s), 23 hour(s), 53 minute(s), 37 second(s)
Of course, this beats our production server's 6 day(s), 1 hour(s), 47 minute(s), 47 second(s)You quitting proves that the karma kap worked. The most annoying of the whores shut up. --CmdrTaco
Windoze is horrible at letting go of resources once it has used them.
-- Sent from a computer.
Red Hat 7.0 - $29.95
CD/RW burner - $229.50
10 pack of CDs - $49.95
Look on luser's face when the server drops - Priceless
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Use to, but thank god I will never have to do that again.
I can't really think of much that sucks more than installing and admining Windows NT on 50+ servers.
Specially when you have to install ~10 things that each require a reboot and the server takes a few mins to reboot because of how much ram it has.
Never again I tell ya.
Oh and installing updates off their website? woohoo another reboot (for each server!) bah! I guess it's good job security for anybody who likes being an admin though.
And you say they release hot fixes -all- the time? ugh!!
And don't get me started on having to format and start over because you messed up installing a product, or you installed the products out of order.. Jesus!!
hahaha....
-----------------------
Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
it might be a server-class OS, but no one running a production server is going to rely on an "auto-update" daemon to do their work, at least no one who is worthwhile as an admin.
/.'s editors take cheap shots wherever they can get 'em, that's what's called "editorial independance," and I like it.
This is a feature for the DESKTOP, to compete with MS's same named feature, and will be most used by people who think a three week uptime is spectacular regardless.
Besides that, the lesson to be learned again is that X.0 software (esp. OSes) is buggy.
--
+&x
The first debate was the typical podium one. The one tonight (Wed, Oct 11) will be a round-table, similar to the VP debate, where Gore and Bush sit at a table with Lehrer, and will be given a bit more time to 'talk' to each other like the VP's did. The final debate next week will be town-hall system, which IIRC has a bit more audience participation in it.
Each type of debate has strenghts and weakens that each candidate was better at, so they choose the multiple styles when they dealed on the debate issue back in August. They also got the one that is most scripted out of the way, so that the latter ones will probably require more off the cuff answers and questions.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
... have probably already figured this out. I kept seeing bizzaro stuff in my log files from rhnsd. After looking up /etc/init.d/rhnsd I saw that it was not something I needed (I always download for free, so I doubt they are going to be giving me any service ).
At least it was putting nice messages into the log file.
For those who need it:
chkconfig --level 345 rhnsd off (turns off the startup)
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
Not to quibble, but isn't crond a "long-running daemon"? Granted most of these sorts of problems have been thrashed out of cron a long time ago.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
And very little money.
___
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
So, I guess now the Gold Standard is:
...
We will ship no distro before it's tested - oh, wait, gotta crank it out before the quarterlies on the street are updated.
Never mind
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Bleeding edge isn't what Debian stable is about but that is definitely what Debian unstable is for.
You asked for reccommendations... There's mine
...the win95 "43 day" bug... where it would crash exactly after 43 days...
They never introduced a fix... the sheer idea of running win95 for 43 days was silly, even to MS.
BlackNova Traders
I'm running X 4.0.1 from Rawhide on my 6.2 box.
You'll have to update a few other packages to get it to install cleanly (initscripts, among others), but it can be done.
BTW, you have to be willing to recompile from SRPMs - precompiled RPMs won't work. But here's how you do it:
Recompile the X RPMs.
Try to install them, find out what needs to be updated.
Get those packages, rebuild them from their SRPMs and install.
After that, the hardest thing is updating your XF86Config file...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
no file descriptors = no save important files, no sync disks, etc.
---
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
I find that the quality of the software seems to be slipping since the 5.0 days but maybe that's just me.
Respond to s
You are right, people reading slashdot generally like anything non-M$ over Micro$oft products.
:) but it certainly is covered.
/. next time.
Has been like that since Slashdot started. However, what you are saying about hotmail switching to Win2K has been covered here. Again, it may be biased (take the title of that article, for example
So please check first before making statements about
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
So I guess Redhat's QA hasn't improved any? This is abysmal for a company that is trying to run with the big boys.
They never introduced a fix... the sheer idea of running win95 for 43 days was silly, even to MS.
Why was that? I personally like to leave my computer on it's better for the electrical connections within the machine and parts due to thermal expansion/contraction.
Respond to s
- It's not every RH 7.0 only, it's the default installation only
- If you just toss up a box without doing any kind of security check like removing unnecessary services (running a software updater on your website is not a bright idea), then you deserve all the pain you will get. That kind of incredible cluelessness is damaging not only to you, but to the rest of the community when someone starts playing with the r00ted box.
Not defending RH on this, btw, I think they deserve criticsm for the screwups. I dislike major new features which were not included in the beta. I'm just saying this shouldn't be an issue on systems which have been properly maintained.You ignorant linux whores are beginning to sound like Mac-Evangelists more and more everyday.Slashdot should change it's motto to "Propaganda for Nerds".If you guys actually suscribed to Microsoft's security and technical lists you would know how quickly they get fixes out the door. But,it is correct, Linux doesn't get service packs,it just gets a new distribution.
Great minds think alike,but,fools seldom differ.
... soon it's unstable enough to take over the desktop market!
it's in my head
Depending on your device drivers and possibly applications. I've had NT workstations (4.0, SP4 or higher) go over 49.7 days several times (the key is to not actually use it :-) and while they continue to run, they start acting totally wierd in some ways. Mostly in the GUI, AFAIcouldT, but I didn't wait around for something bigger to show up. All in all it handled it better than the Linux 2.0 workstation across the room I eventually rolled over a couple years ago.
Of course, almost all NT stability depends on your device drivers, and not knowing that is the #1 cause of unstable NT installs done by non-pros.
about xawtv not working.... have you tried commenting out the omit xfree86-dga Option line in the your XF86config file. that worked for me
According to this comment, "the leak is in the rhnsd daemon which is installed and running by default after installation. Even people who never start the update agent will get bitten by this, unless they disabled the daemon after installation."
It occurs to me that people who might be affected by this, ie people who run this bad daemon, will quickly be fixed since it is the daemon responsible for updating the system. If they are running it, it will update itself. Thus the problem should be short lived.
"It would appear to an outside observer who might read /. for the first time that RH is junk."
Whoops, sorry, outside observers. Rob, please change the headline to read "Another RedHat Feature Discovered".
If I were running on OS that came with a incompatible (and buggy to boot) compiler, a 3 week uptime limit and countless other "issues" I would call it junk. If RedHat is distributing a version of Linux with these problem, then RedHat Linux is junk. Forget what it looks like to "outside observers"--that's just propaganda. Many of us chose Linux because of it's reputation for technical excellence--if RedHat can't stand the heat, they need to leave the kitchen.
--
An abstained vote is a vote for Bush and Gore.
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
That's the idea.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
Guess you made your choice. Now keep your finger on the reboot button, you'll use it a lot.
I think everyone's along the right lines here. There is no way in hell that windows could last three weeks (I believe my own quote, back in the day was "It's been on for 2 days, I need to let it cool down a lil, and then reboot it....") Granted I've heard all of the storied about linux running for years at a time and never needing a reboot (i mean, I've been running RH7 for about 2 weeks now, and have had no problems with it (and i've got a 10 gig swap, but that's not the point)). So, people, quit complaining that it has a bug.... I mean, how much money does redhat actually make off of you, like 10 bucks a pop??? Just my humble opinion BTW (yeah, like that ever covered anyone's ass)
I'm not saying that god doesn't exist, merely that he is not necessary - hawking
The Errata page may be in error.
I suggest you check their Errata Errata page
for a correction to the first misprint.
Any further corrections to previous errata
corrections would be found on their
Errata Errata Errata page.
really embarass them to release a product with
a bug like this one...
I'm beginning to wonder weather RedHat, and
a few other distros, are racing each other to
have the highest version-number. Sacrifing testing
too in the process, iot seems. It up at 7.0 now,
when will we have 10.0?
Debian on the other hand is still on 2.2, and :-)
seems VERY stable. I'm sticking with debian
// Simon
That's why you use cron instead of writing a long-running daemon.
Don't run top or ps very often, do you?
Try '/sbin/pidof crond' and I'll be you've got it running.
Are you suggesting that Slashdot should push an agenda rather than report the truth?
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
If you do not use Red Hat Network and do not want your machine to
automatically poll for updates, you can turn off the rhnsd daemon using the
following commands (while logged in as root):
/sbin/service rhnsd stop
/sinb/chkconfig --level 345 rhnsd off
/sinb ??? is this one of those crazy new redhat directory structures??
Tyranny =Gov. choosing how much power to give the People.
Actually, their errata page DID have a mistake in it - they referred to some directory called /sinb. I don't have a /sinb on my machine, but I do have a /sbin.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Presumably cron has addressed all the issues involved in running forever. That is why The Pim recommends it. He wasn't implying that cron wasn't a long running-daemon. Solving these issues again is re-inventing the wheel, and, in this case, re-inventing the square wheel.
There is no distinction between 'official' and 'unofficial' ISO images. Its all the same ISO. And the daemon doesn't do anything unless you tell it to (but it is running).
The easyest fix is to just run up2date, and update the 'up2date' package, which owns the daemon.
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
New and improved troll song!
When Red Hat comes crashing down again
Hurrah, Hurrah!
When Red Hat comes crashing down again
Hurrah, Hurrah!
The trolls will yell
and the flames will spout
the losers cheer
and the zealots pout
And we'll all feel GAY
When Red Hat comes crashing down!
The systems internal clock wasn't set accurate,
so after a few days the RH7 system crashed,
All the screen would say after rebooting was:
"R3dH4t 0wnZ u n0W!"
Makes me w0nd3r...
I think somethings nutty, my comment disappeared.
Anyway, my whole "-1, Flamebait" comment was:
Are you installing RH7 on production machines the day it comes out? Are you INSANE? Look, its a bug. They have a fix. So patch the TEST MACHINES you're running RH7 on, so you can work out the bugs, migration path, and eratta, and get on with your life! You ARE running this on test machines, right? You are planning a migration to RH7, not just popping the CD into your mission-critical servers, right? You are following good sysadmin practices, right?
Just because they rushed the release doesn't mean you have to take it. Take your time and be smart.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Service packs are a great idea
In a sense, RH DOES have service packs....they are just called minor versions. So, instead of RH7.0SP1, you'll get RH7.1. It seems to me that the analogy works pretty well. And all of the security patches to packages are released between "SP" releases.
Why can't you sync the disks? All you need to do is to kill the redhat daemon and you get all of your file descriptors back, then just run like normal. The kernel will clean up after the application when it exits.
--
Mike Mangino
Sr. Software Engineer, SubmitOrder.com
Mike Mangino
mmangino@acm.org
Actually you bring up a valid question, with regards to slashdot anyways. If Win2K had this bug it would certainly been on slahsdot, and met with much approval. Many MS friendly posters will go on about how slashdot is biased and unfair towards MS, well, posting this story pretty much lets RH have the MS treatment. Seems fair enough to me.
Now with regards to the bug, I think the obvious fix is to simply kill -9 rhnsd. There ya go, bug fixed. Yes it's a serious bug, but it's hardly a service that any production server needs so it's a non-issue in my mind. If you are running a serious server you are probably not going to let the the software update itself. You are going to get it up, apply any security patches that come out, and lock it in a closet somewhere. The "idea" that you must be running the most current version of software is a marketing ploy (which MS does very well) and is hogwash. If you have software that meets your needs and is stable and secure you certainly don't want to screw it up by randomly updating it.
I think it was poor of RH not to actually test this properly, but I also understand that this is partly just the nature of the beast. They feel that they must move forward at a fast pace and this is the result.
It says
/sbin/service rhnsd stop
/sinb/chkconfig --level 345 rhnsd off .
/sbin/service rhnsd stop
/sbin/chkconfig --level 345 rhnsd off. .0 releases...
But of course it should be
This doesn't exactly help improving the impression of their
Recommendations, anyone?
Slackware, dude! Slack is life!
That's what I was just thinking. So the update agent crashes after a few weeks. Big deal. RH 7 hasn't been out that long, so anyone not running the update agent doesn't care. Anyone who is running the agent will have been updaetd before the bug manifests. Unrelated, I upgraded to Rawhide during the beta period of RH 7, to get X 4.0.1. (I couldn't find RPMs that would install on my tweaked 6.1 box and don't want to install X by any method other than RPM due to all the packages which depend on it.) So anyways UnrealTournament and xawtv don't work anymore. I'm going to scrap RawHide and go for RH7 this weekend, and if xawtv still doesn't work, I'll scrap it go back down to 6.2 and do without X 4.0.1.
--
No, this is important to know.
/. readers. (obviously not all /. readers use linux, and not all linuxers use redhat, but the population is still going to be quite large.)
:-)
Redhat dominates the Linux market. This affects a LOT of
As well, I think politically it's probably a good idea to be public about this kind of bug. Linux has a rep of being extremely reliable. I, for one, would like to keep it that way, and bugs that affect reliability thus NEED TO BE very embarassing events. Trying to suppress this kind of news may make Linux APPEAR more reliable but actually BE less reliable -- a lose-lose situation for sure.
After all, if Sendmail suddenly started crashing every two weeks, the community would be justifiably furious about it. I don't think it's unreasonable to hold Redhat to a similar standard. They have an enormous advantage over Microsoft by packaging all the Open Source stuff instead of writing it themselves. Seems to me that expecting really good QA on their internally-written software is quite reasonable.
You can bet that if Microsoft had released Win2K with a bug that took it down after two weeks it would have made national news. And Slashdot.
I can write a pretty darn good bug free Hello World program. Bug freeness is possible, it's just too complicated an idea for some nitwits to understand.
-Splat
This same problem in Debian wouldn't be posted here in 20 years. Unless you think Debian doesn't have any bugs...
________
Actually, none of the x config tools (that make use of the X 4.0.1 stuff) seemed to work after the upgrade. I basically built the XF86Config by hand. That was pretty neat actually. I don't have any lines about dga in my config file, that could be a problem. When I run xawtv as a user it mentions somthing about dga (away from my machine so I can't check right now). There are no messages when I run at root, but I still don't seem to get a signal. I know that card works and the signal is there (I can still use it in windows).
--
Until the point that something happens during your multiple installs w/ no reboots that causes everything to hose and you have to start all over again... Right?
I'm sure it happens.. That's what I was trying to avoid..
But in any case. That still doesn't stop NT from sucking. IMO
-----------------------
Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
>Instead I get a bunch of CDs that are now
>useless.
By that definition of useless, EVERY data CD is useless. There is no such thing as a bug-free release of any piece of software.
>Oh I guess I could install RH 7.0 and then
>download a million patches.
Oh you poor thing. You have to type 'up2date' at the console.
>Service packs are a great idea because you can
>consolidate all of the fixes into a comprehensive
>unit and thus you can tell people, my software
>will work on Redhat 7.0 service pack 3
I have to agree with you on this one. The concept of a service pack or a patch bundle is usefull at times.
However, patches SHOULD be made available as soon as there is one, and should continue to be available individually.
I don't know how many times during my stint as a support person I ran into a service pack or patch bundle that broke other things that were working fine.
Matt
The latest from Netcraft:
QUOTE
HotMail
We were premature with last month's comment to the effect that Windows 2000 had replaced FreeBSD at HotMail. Markus Senoner was first to point out that although www.hotmail.com is indeed running Windows 2000, several of the other HotMail front end servers are still running FreeBSD.
ENDQUOTE
It would seem that MS still doesn't trust Windows 2000 all that much.
The update process itself needs some work as it stands.
I have just run the update agent and the updates it wishes to install run to 98Mb. Quite impressive so soon.
The interesting thing is that the update process crashes out due to conflicts with realplayer and kcmclock.
Slashdot Beta should die a painful death.
Everyone makes mistakes. Proactively fixing this bug reflects very well on Red Hat.
However...
I recall the clammer over the win95 bug that would crash the system 50 days out. Microsoft was lambasted over this and rightly so.
Red Hat should also take heat for such a similar mistake. A code review might have caught such a stupid bug.
As the most visible icon of Linux, Red Hat should be nervously checking their releases for bugs. There is no reason why their customers won't flee to Suse, Caldera, Storm, Debian or even Slackware if Red Hat continues to deliver buggy, insecure systems (unstable compilers, piranha backdoors, etc).
I have bought Red Hat CDs in the past and continue to use their distribution on a variety of machines. I do have to think twice before deploying a production machine with this distribution installed.
What needs to happen to get Red Hat to improve the quality of their releases? The installation is easy enough; it's the default system configuration that needs more attention.
Many linux weenies assume that, because they can install RedHat/Debian/Slackware and get it running well, they can admin an NT box. Really, they have no clue what they are doing.
I would venture to say that, once we feel we can admin a linux box to make it run well, we don't care if we can admin NT.
--
Uhhh... or you could just turn off the update daemon from linuxconf
The bug was fixed in Windows 95, contrary to a lot of the FUD that is at the lower moderation levels:
Check out this link.
Ok let me elucidate about this one
1. Software that is new and well tested shouldn't have any bugs that are the fault of being obselete.
2. You can easily complain and get a fast response because you are running their newest stuff and don't have to get the excuse that you are running old depreciated technology.
That is the logic and I thank you to do a better job of actually *thinking* and *replying*. Maybe you like to use extremely old stuff but most don't.
Respond to s
"If the slashdot community wants people to respect its opinions and find it useful, it must be unafraid to critize even RH when its favorite things are screwed up."
Right on! That's not a 'troll,' that's Da Truth.
"Ain't no right way to do a wrong thing."
Can you get the update with out being one of those network subscriber? Does Redhat think that they are going to make money this way. Need a update pay us, or what for 7.1. I couldn't find a place to download any patches. One of us should join it and then put up a mirror. :) Its all open source right?
atto
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
You've got to be kidding. I've run Linux for years and it's my preferred OS for just about everything, including my day-to-day desktop use but I'd never claim that as a whole product it's 'technically excellent'. There are parts that are spectacular. There are parts that need serious work.
The BEST thing about Linux is exactly what has happened here and is why the back-handed comment in the original post about not having to wait for a service pack/system upgrade/whatever from your OS distributor was quite appropriate, imho. A bug was found. It was fixed. The next day it's available to EVERYONE. That's the number one reason why the stability of many Linux bits have grown faster than other platforms do (can?).
Maybe some of these things are boneheaded, but at least they are admitting them and fixing them pronto. If a distro didn't, I'd start to worry. And when they get quiet, they'd better either be getting ready for a major release or their distro better be damn near perfect, which I've never encountered yet.
And yes, I am running RH7, _.0_, no less. Which worked with all my brand-spanking hardware right out the box (SMP, CD-RW, UltraATA, etc.) without ANY special configuration by me. I've compiled kernels and several SRPMS, used NVIDIA's kick-ass drivers, enjoyed my 100Mbps LAN connection, reduced my data faster than I've ever before, burned a few CDs, played a few GL games. And, oh yeah, I spent about 2 minutes updating my system with their tool. Gosh it really messed up my day... And guess what? It all seems to work. Just like it did with RH6.2 and Mandrake 7.1/2. And probably does with Deb and Turbo and ... life goes on.
mh
Boy I bet the people here would be howling about not only MS screwing up again, but also how evil it is that MS knows what programs you have on your computer when they're polled by the "MS Network".
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
> But you've got the source, dickhead.
This is entirely the kind of thing that pisses me off about the whole open source "movement".
Hello -- I work an average of 80 hours a week coding to get our releases out the door. The last thing I want to do is to track down somebody ELSE's bug when I've barely got time to take care of my own. And gee, tracking down somebody's bug that causes a max of a 3 day uptime isn't the kind of thing I want to waste my time doing.
This kind of attitude is nothing more than saying "you've got the source, it's your problem, too". Which is exactly the attitude that MS and Sun point out when they make fun of Open Source. Take this into consideration next time you lambast them for their propaganda.
- Matt
Common politics would dictate waiting for the bug story to cool down before stroking the still-burning embers.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
--
I'm running Slack on my desktop...
<O
( \
XPlay Tetris On Drugs!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Have you been forgetting to take your medication again?
~ppppppppö
Therefore a normal application cannot use up all file descriptors. Probably however the update agent runs with super-user privileges ( I don't know for sure: does it also automatically update packages?)
I see this bug as a result of a worrying tendence of open-source software to copy M$oft software in giving too much control to the computer and too few control to the user (outlook viruses, anyone?)
In these matters my motto is : the dumbest of users is still more intelligent than the smartest of computers.
Ciao
----
FB
You must be one lame admin if you have a production box running on a OS just released in under a month! If i were your boss you would be fired! Second of all, when you install an OS, You should know to look and see what services are running on it, its just fricking common knowledge.
Don't give me the crap about you didn't know, if you didn't know, you should not be using it. You do not jump into a jet fighter and try to fly it without knowing how to use it. So why would you do that to an OS?
Its folks like you who get their boxes rooted, then bitch about "insecure" OS
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
What's the difference between a 'Service Pack' and an 'Update'?
Red Hat make a mistake and they should pay for it simple as that.
Respond to s
> So what would you do if you found a bug in Windows (or any non-Free operating system) and the vendor ummed and aaaed for months without fixing it?
Same thing that I do when I find a bug in open source software. I find a workaround and move on. You'd be surprised at the number of times this works.
> Fuck off back to your 80 hour week, asshole.
Petty words only hurt the movement, giving the Bad Guys more firepower about how overzealous the movement is. Congatualations on perpetuating the stereotype.
- Matt
Slack doesn't seem to have this problem
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Is it me, or is Red Hat the only distribution that /. ever posts bug reports on?
-- "Perceptions create reality. By changing your perceptions you change your reality."
I never realized it was the uptimer!
Does anybody else find this funny? "Yeah, my uptimer crashed my computer!"
Well, I'm a Red Hat user of old, and quite comfortable with the general quality and support provided.
However, I've abstained from buying RH 7, due to the massive problems they seem to have with this release. Far more than I remember in the 5.0 release and 6.0 release.
I'm using Debian at work, and becoming more and more enamoured of it's stability and ease of upgrade.
I was under the impression that the RawHide system of pre-release was meant to cure this kind of screwup.. This also dents my faith in that preconception.
The errors in the update agent are unforgivable though. With any release that's as shaky as a x.0 release from RH, they at least need update stable.
C'mon RH. Get your act together before you really lose your credibility.
Malk.
Heh, doesn't matter, it's back on the front page. ;-)
My reality check bounced.
Okay, we all hate Microsoft, but come on. Cheap digs like "you don't have to wait for a service pack" will just turn people off. (Remember the first Gore vs. Bush debate?)
You can't do that standing on such shaky ground. One could argue that it _is_ a service pack, or point out that MS does usually release patches to serious problems within a week as well as rolling them up into a service pack.
I don't remember whether it was 43 days or not, but yes, there was a Windows 95 bug that was like this. (It was above 30 days as well.) I ran into it. (Yes, I ran Windows 95 for more than 30 days. No, the average user can't keep their system clean enough to do it for the most part. Yes, I did. Yes, I still think Windows 95 is a world better than 3.1.)
As for a memory leak, it's one of the most common errors you can have. 3 weeks is still a pretty good time frame; the fix was out very quickly; it was made public, the how and why of it. These are things you won't see with closed source companies. Bash RedHat all you want, truth is their internal programs just simply don't get the exposure the rest of Linux per se does, so some bugs slip by.
-- Talonius
My reality check bounced.
If /. did not post the story, they'd be accused of some editorial conspiracy or the like. What were they to do? Not post this story? I firmly believe that this story is worthy of attention from the Slashdot community. While we all know that RedHat Is Not Linux, it is still one popular distro (among many). So "whats [sic] the deal"? The deal is that Slashdot is posting a relevant story, and I don't see a problem with that.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Unfortunately not... the leak is in the rhnsd daemon which is installed and running by default after installation. Even people who never start the update agent will get bitten by this, unless they disabled the daemon after installation.
--
Brent J. Nordquist <bjn@visi.com>
Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN
---
Mandrake 7.2 beta is pretty bleeding edge and is running great on my computer.
The very first thing I did when I installed RH7 was...
I removed the RHNSD daemon!
1. I didn't want it.
2. It didn't work anyway... always threw error messages in the syslog, right out of the box.
3. The reason I love linux so much is because it's NOT microsoft. RHNSD is very "microsoft-ish", which prompts me to look more kindly upon other distros.
You DON't need it anyway... get rid of it!
my $.02
--cr@ckwhore
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
Actually, it's a reality because on production machines, you don't leave ANYTHING to chance. EVER. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Much like one of the main points of OSS is that you don't trust closed source, when deploying, you DON'T TRUST SOMETHING THAT HASN'T PASSED YOUR OWN TEST ENVIRONMENT.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
You folks are talking about upgrading, thats all fine and dandy, but how about a new server from dell with 7 preinstalled.
How about joe home user installing linux for the first time. Why can't you people get it through your thick skulls, this is not ok. Not from MS and not from RH.
I can't believe how pathetic this is. Linux prides its self on stability yet all I ever hear about linux is bug reports and shitty open source software that either wont compile or core dumps when loaded.
You've got Apache and the gimp, other than that there is no merrit to Linux. I use FreeBSD on servers and windows/macos on workstations. Linux lost it's niche. It's useless unstable bloatware
Forgive me if I'm being snippy, but why is this a major issue? Yes, we've talked about problems with Rh 7.0. Yes, we've bitched about the new GCC shipping about it. But what is this, open season on RH? Since they are well known and popular, did they suddenly become evil that we have to slam on them all the time? It would appear to an outside observer who might read /. for the first time that RH is junk. And who knows how many people might have gotten that impression and decided not to switch to linux from NT.
It's just a good idea to flush out the system now and again...
BlackNova Traders
I don't think it's a "ploy". And if it is, it's rather poor. Say you did download Red Hat 7 and did not register. There are tons of places like slashot where you can get news like this. Also, theres irc, usenet, etc. You can still sign up for mailing lists. If all that fails, you can always point your browser to http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/ every so often. Updates like these are on that page, including this one. And its pretty easy to get to from their front page. In fact, I didnt even know about it untill I started typing this!
--
---------///----------
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
I decided to stop using slackware really quick after spending 10 hours swearing and cursing at the comptuer because of it's failings. Now I run a decent distro (debian) and feel comfortable about it.
Respond to s
The level of ignorace here is staggering.
the story was briefly pulled, then reposted.
--
As long as RH provides a fix promptly, is OK for me. It's called "Development", this kind of things happen all the time... I'm not a RedHat Devote, but their effort to provide a easy install and mainteinance makes linux usable for a wider range of people. (sadly?, NO!)
Anyway, I only use critical daemons, and minimal services available to the net.
I don't trust RH daemons, but that's my choice...
i can barely imagine anything i want my systems doing less than automatically looking for new software and/or installing updates without my fully conscious awareness of same and active involvement. do people actually find value in this type of service?
I do not have a signature
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
Now get back to previous RH7 stories here,2 18&mode=nested):
and look at nice peacefull comments from RedHat, for instance on the gcc issue (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/10/07/0027
I made the statment:
> RH is supposed to get a commercial grade OS out of the door. I am sorry, but shipping a snapshot of gcc as the standard compiler doesn't cut it.
To which a redhat engineer replied:
> "shipping a snapshot": This was cut of the tree a long time before shipping and then QAed and fixed. Us wantin to ship it got it huge amounts of testing and bugfixing, which would accelerate release of GCC 3.0.
That was basically the line of defense. We did a lot of QA.
And the OS cannot run for 3 weeks ? Scary as hell
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
If you are full able to know that you do have the latest software on the machine then it's far easier to determine if said software is faulty in any way.
Respond to s
> And how long does it take you to find a workaround, and then support that workaround later on?
:)
Actually, support later on is usually much lighter. We've used jikes and xerces and hacked it before; it's lovely when another version comes out and you have to then retrofit your hacks back in, because even when we report the fixes, they don't get integrated. Working around solves it once.
> Gee thanks. Congratulations on perpetuating a sterotype yourself. You're even worse than the most zealous slashbot.
If you say so. But you need to learn that if you call somebody a name, you at least need to tell them what the name is....
- Matt (note lack of AC)
After all, everyone wants uptime > 3 weeks, eh? And you don't need to wait for a "service pack," either.
Woa really!?!? Cool!
Bullshit. If this was a bug in Windows you would have shit all over it. Red Hat should get no more slack than any other software firm, linux developers or not. Bad software development practice is bad software development practice, period. *sigh* A freaking uptime limiting bug how lame. Another thing, if we start getting complacent about such crippling bugs, it will be damn acceptable to ship products with these bugs in them. Just like how MS knowingly releases windows with 'known issues'. (Bugs galore, and I know this as a fact by inside info.) This cannot happen if we want Linux to make a real competitive demonstration against Windows. Why should managers heed our advice and convert from nt/win2k to an arguably more difficult platform WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS!? This is not flaimbait I just don't think people understand how important such bugs are, far more than the bug themself. MS and it's PR war machine is salivating right now, rightfully so.
Regards
Yep -- rpm -e'd the sucker. It kept trying to connect to the mothership and something wasn't working. If you don't pay RH for the updates, you only get a trial subscription to the service, so I bailed out of the config -- the error was due to my aborted config. Nevertheless, it kept coughing up sputum in the log when it couldn't phone home.
:-)
I got a little tired of seeing its feeble cries for help, so I put it out of it's misery.
Two line fix? Mine was one-line.
-dwd-
I'm not complaining that there are bugs in RH7 - I know it's new, and I'm the first person to tell clients not to put new software on production servers. I made a considered choice to do this on my own server, because the hardware needed upgrading anyway, and the RH 5.2 which has been running flawlessly on it for the past couple of years was missing some stuff that I needed.
My problem is with the nature of this RH issue: it's a bug in a piece of software RH developed internally, and install by default without any indication or choice. I find that kind of "thinking for the customer" undesirable and unacceptable, and as I said, Microsoft-like. No doubt it's a reflection of Red Hat's post-IPO mass consumer focus; unfortunately that doesn't suit me very well.
As for checking the services, I did the install over the weekend, looked at the long list of services (since I installed a bunch of database and other server stuff) and decided to check it out later. I would have found rhnsd soon enough. Security isn't much of an issue because the box sits behind a firewall at the colo site with only web, imap and ssh ports open; the web server is my own build of Apache 2.0 alpha, for development purposes only.
Hmmm I have to side with the RedHat basher on this one. I have used RedHat 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, and 6.2, and their quality started to take a nose dive at 6.0. The reason I have used them anyways is because where I work, that is all Engineering ever has approved for sale (without trying any other distros, I add, except Mandrake). Of course, even though I'm the only one there who knows Linux well, they don't listen to me =/.
5.1 and up have issues with LILO (sometimes it won't install during the initial install script), but nothing that couldn't be worked around. 6.0...the issues seemed to get a little better. 6.1...Samba didn't work in some cases, DHCP was flaky, etc. etc. 6.2, the problems are worse. 7.0, I believe the phrase is "look out below." RedHat posts fixes, of course, but I prefer a distro that's fairly stable right out of the box. FYI, I run Slackware and Linux From Scratch.
Kelledin Tane, the Dreaming Minstrel
http://kelledin.tripod.com/scovsms.jpg
I disagree. A service pack or patch bundle contains by definition a lot of patches. However, most probably program P needs only one or two of those patches. Even worse, there is a good chance that most of the patches are irrelevant to me. Example: I do not run sendmail, so what do I need sendmail patches for.
And that's where the package-depencies come in. If It is stated in the RPM (or Deb I guess) that it is dependend on version X, patch Y, by default the rpm will not be installed unless that version (or at least that version) is present. And this is clearly stated. So only that respective patch needs to be downloaded.
Needless to say, for those with low bandwidth connections pathchbundles or SPs are a mixed blessing.
This is a question posed by a Linux-wannabe who really knows nothing:
Does Linux have a max # of file handles, after which new handles cannot be created?
Let me pose this another way -- Can I crash a Linux box by opening a whole lot of files? Or is this daemon run as root? Then the new question is why is a daemon that has the capability to automatically update critical software, running as root? Surely it could be spoofed to update a system with poor DLLs?
To a Linux newby, this whole article sounds very scary.
Redhat finds bug, releases fix! Film at 11!
Seriously, how did Redhat not find this bug before they released it? Did they not load test at least a box or two for more than a month (Especially now IBM intends to use Redhat, servers are obviously a massive revenue stream for Redhat).
Redhat should be careful. IBM still has time to back out of the deal...
After all, RH is a commercial company now. Just because
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
hehehehhehehhe service pack hehehehe good one timothy!!#!@
*nerd snort*
hahehehehhehahahe ehhe micr0$loth suvcks!@#@
/me goes back to pinching pimples
oops I am not on IRC in here!@!! wups!@ heheheh
On the one hand I think there is no reason for developing such a deamon? It would be much easier with a simple command line tool (AFAIK Debian uses upget to recieve new Udates).
On the other hand, even if it sounds paranoid, there might be users feeling bad knowing, that RH might be "watching" them.
This is a production release of a "for sale" operating system. No where on RedHats site does it say RedHat 7 Beta
Many people will be installing this as their first Linux distro, is this to be their first experience to Linux?
Although I'm not an advocate of any certain distro, I must say that I applaud RH the effort they have put into open source software. However, this problem shows one problem with open source: Quality control on open source software.
In an ideal situation, every programmer will look at the source code, and contribute to the effort of the open project. Most people (like myself) are free-riders, who have no ability to program. So as idealistically sound open source may seem, there are certain issues to worry about.
In RH's case, at least they pay their workers-which means that they are more willing to do the dirtywork of bug fixing others' code (in theory). Although, cases like this gives another doubt in the "Linux for the business" credibility since more non-techies seem to equate Linux with RedHat. It seems to be an understanding by almost everyone, that any RH x.0 distro is pretty much an experimental state, and must not be used on production servers. This, however, makes theo perating system appear "buggy" and "not production-quality" to the uninformed, hence I wish they will take more pride in their distribution instead of "hey, we had that packaged into ours first!" I honestly wish comments on how RH's similarity with MS due to their tactics are only on the surface. Unlike MS (whose operating system is proprietary), RH simply has their own distribution of an open-sourced OS. If you so choose not to use their distro, you have enough other choices: e.g. Debian, Mandrake, Slackware, etc etc.
RedHat doesn't suck after all?
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Mac OS X's kernel (Darwin) is not your typical monolithic BSD kernel. It's a Mach kernel with a layer of BSD-like services around that. Darwin is Nearly-Free Software under the Apple Public Source License.
<O
( \
XPlay Tetris On Drugs!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Linux From Scratch.
That's about as low-level as it gets unless you're actually coding all the software yourself. It's not actually a distribution, per se, but rather a manual that tells you where to get the basic software source tarballs, how to compile and install them, etc.
Slackware is good too. All stable release software, all compiled with reasonable options.
Kelledin Tane, the Dreaming Minstrel
http://kelledin.tripod.com/scovsms.jpg
It was suggested that Slashdot rethink the posting of this piece, and apparently someone *DID.* Now you guys want excuses?
:-)
Pahlease.
-- Talonius
My reality check bounced.
Try "SLS" on floppies... you get a lot of people looking at you strange for walking into the computer lab (to the _one_ workstation with a floppy which, I might add, few knew how to access) with box after box of 3.5" floppies. Of course, Linux wasn't very far out of Finland at that point.
(Daniel... go ask Virgil about this.)
---------///----------
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
Please try to contain yourself. This is a public forum on a web page. I'm sure you can find something much more significant to get excited about.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Okay, so everybody is bagging on Red Hat here. But here's a question I would like to pose to everybody:
Why is it acceptable for a process to be able to hose the operating system by opening file descriptors and not closing them?
The only answer I can think of is, "because that's the way it's always been". Well that is completely lame.
Think of it as being like protected memory. It is not acceptable for a process to kill the kernel by writing to a random memory location. So why should it be okay for a process to (effectively) kill the kernel (by preventing the proper spawning of new processes due to lack of fd's) by opening sockets?
This should, like, be fixed.
Thanks, I wasn't really aware of Debian unstable. I'm going to give Debian a try.
You mean 24/7/365.2425 don't you? .9925 days/year?
Or is your downtime exactly
All opinions are my own - until criticized
On XFree86 4.0.1, with a Hauppage "WinTV Go" card.
Watching the 2nd US Presidential debate start now, in fact.
Email me for a copy of my conf.modules (which may not be helpful if you're using a non bttv card) or XF86Config files.
When I go to RedHat's site it says "Important Updates Available!" in red letters right under the RH & now available link. (The updates link was not added to my reply for emphasis, it's on the RH site too.)
--
Just a thought.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Debian 2.2 was worth the wait.
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
It amazes me that you confuse my point about people being overly zealous with the fact that I like closed source. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Simple example:
Linux 2.4.x is late. Alan Cox is working hard on it. Alan Cox is probably putting in 60+ hours a week on the kernel, wouldn't be surprised if it is approaching 80, but I won't go that far.
Now Alan tries something on another Open Source project. He asks a question. What is his answer?
To quote something that (you?) posted above:
> But you've got the source, dickhead.
When Alan points out that he's already working very hard, the Open Source community responds:
> Fuck off back to your 80 hour week, asshole.
Now how does that make Alan feel about the Open Source? So he has the source. Big deal. He's got bigger fish to fry.
btw, work I've contributed to includes DEC Alpha C/C++ compilers (which includes some help with DECC backend support for Alpha/Linux), jikes, and Apache/JServ. You'd be wise to avoid all 3.
better, here's my web page:
www.cs.wisc.edu/~mjhans
Now piss off.
Don't make excuses. This is exactly the same type of crap that MicroSoft dishes up, and RedHat is guilty of delivering it.
Here it is, And it's been out for a long time now.
--
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
int main() {
printf("Hello, World!\n");
}
You are right, it is possible to write a small program without any bugs and - wait, sorry, I forgot to make it return an exit code. Let me get back to you...
After all, everyone wants uptime > 3 weeks, eh?
Unless my mind is loosey-goosey tonight, or dysxelai is creeping in, I want an OS that stays up (hard? =) more than three weeks! That's a greater-than sign you have in your story, buddy. I only mention it as I've noticed several times over the past few weeks as the same mistake has been made over-and-over in story text - am I the only one noticing this? Well, I'm off to visit with Buttercup - ah, that Sean Penn is a lucky man.
--
Me pican las bolas, man!
Thanks
--
Me pican las bolas, man!
Thanks
Jaco
Personally, I frequently use Red Hat & W2K to do my job, and am quite pleased with both. As I've been watching, I've seen you go hog wild over the Windows 47 day bug, but yet when RH has a 3 week one, it must not be a big deal... Hello, THIS IS A SERVER-CLASS OS. IT IS A BIG DEAL.
chkconfig --level 345 rhnsd off (turns off the startup)
/etc/rc*.d/ folders so it doesn't automatically start in a given runlevel. To do this by hand, just go into each /etc/rc#.d folder and delete the S##rhsnd symlink. (replace #'s with numbers) =>
that command removes the rhsnd script from
--
2. Problem description: The new Update Agent provided with Red Hat Linux 7.0 contains a daemon, rhnsd, which periodically polls Red Hat Network for updates. This daemon leaks file descriptors. On a default installation, all available file descriptors will be used by rhnsd in approximately three weeks, making the system unusable.
Last I checked, a proper kernel doesn't crash when you run out of file descriptors. Most Linux 2.2.x kernels are setup to allow a max of 4096 fds per process, if you try to use more than that the kernel will deny your process from doing that and return an error(-1) instead of a file descriptor. If some dumb redhat program is leaking FDs then it's just going to cause itself to crash and not bring down the whole system. Unless redhat did something "funny" to the kernel resulting in a kernel bug.
User space apps are NOT supposed beable to kill the system. I cannot belive that redhat screwed the kernel up so much that a leaky app will bring the system down
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
RedHat sucks, no surprises here.
Wait, a revolutionary moment!!! Slashdot confirms an article before posting it!!!
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
The leak is in The Update Manager. If you're not running the update manager, you don't have a problem and the system won't go down. If you ARE running the Update Manager - well, it'll just automatically get the update from RedHat, won't it? Assuming that part works, anyway...
Funny how they're all based off redhat, dumbass.
Complete lie. Unlike you *I* have been to hotmail.com and seen with my own eyes the farm. Get over it - W2K is running the show (except a single solaris box) now.
Sounds like Red Hat is getting ready to takeover the desktop market. It now has the same functionality as Windows Me! :-)
My journal has hot
a) who says I want such a daemon in the first place?
b) am I told about it up front and given the ability to disarm it?
c) why does Linux have a fixed number of file descriptors in the first place? Why make the system vulnerable to the best guess being too small?
RedHat is a load of shit anyways, geez.
"Fuck RedHat"
I've been using RH since 5.2, and i haven't seen any of these great problems everyone's been talking about. I haven't had any odd problems, and the installation i thought was getting better (6.2 installed on a laptop that no earlier version would). I haven't installed 7.0 yet, but it seems a wait and see attitude is deserived. I'll probably goto 7.1 when thats out. I keep my system updated, but not b/c i have wierd problems, just b/c i like to keep everything up to date.
It's not a pretty sight. It's not too far off from running out of memory. And, the 4096 number is a system wide number:
Now, it's not that when that number runs out, that process dies, but the *NEXT* process to request a file dies. This happens on officially penguin-peed kernels as well. You need to set resource limits to keep an individual process from getting to trigger happy with files.
And by the way, take stock 2.2 and make a program which either A) fork bombs or B) chews memory. Watch the system go down in flames. In the case of (B) you (once? Is it fixed?) had the chance of watching the kernel give init the boot, which is very ugly.
--
Ben Kosse
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Oh win95 had quite a nice showstopper in it. Try running it on an amd k6-2 400 or above, and you'll see it. To fix it, just run this neat little windows program. problem is, you can't load windows b/c of the problem! I've had to hack it to get it to only blue screen then be able to install the patch, but most people wouldn't have been able to do that. The problem in this redhat program is really kinda trival. Its something most every redhat user can live without. And it will not prevent you from booting the OS to fix it. I do fault them for having it turned on by default, but MS is guilty of that as well.
Did you even read the MSDN article to which you linked? If this bug was fixed in Windows 95, why would they offer a downloadable patch for Windows 98??
- --------------------------------
Computer Hangs After 49.7 Days
-----------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:
Microsoft Windows 95
Microsoft Windows 95 OEM Service Release versions 2, 2.1, 2.5
Microsoft Windows 98
cpeterso
That's why you use cron instead of writing a long-running daemon.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
Odd, i never heard they finished. I heard the win2k machines they did put to the task crashed, or had to be replaced with more machines (ie, 2 win2k machines to do the work of one solaris box). All stories appear on /. at the top of the page, and stories are posted 24hrs a day. They've posted linux stuff early in the morning, i guess you wouldn't consider that prime time. Although i'm not sure web sites have a prime time like tv does...
Shouldn't there have been a beta release, and this problem would've shown up there?
Anyway, from a programmer's point of view, was the work done by an intern? Is there much difference between a leaked file descriptor and some leaked memory?
my rh7 linux box crashes every 3 days !
lol
Normally I wouldn't bother asking, but I'm curious. The timestamp on this story is 01:01 but the early comments have times of before 01:00 PM (EDT).
To further increase my curiousity, a friend saw the story before 01:01 and instant messaged me to tell me about it. When I went to check on it, I couldn't find it. He refreshed and it was gone from his display as well. After 01:00, we were both able to view it.
Uh-huh - but I thought the point of unix/linux was that if a rogue application did go haywire - it wouldn't take the rest of the system down with it?
What, exactly is the compiler not compatible with? I give it C++ source code and it compiles it for me.
It generates perfectly ISO compatible code. It's not RedHat's fault the ISO spec is vague and underdefined. Expecting different versions of a C++ compiler (or different C++ compilers for that matter) to emit compatible code is a blatant misfeature.
It was 49.7 days and WAS fixed as soon as it was detected. Sigh... more FUD...
Companies like Intel and Dell use Microsoft products for business resons, not technical reasons. This is what happens when decisions like this are made on a golf course rather then a computer lab.
I wish I could think of a witty Sig. Sigh!
I disabled the rhnsd about 15 minutes after the install. I suspect alot of others did as well due to privacy questions, etc... Didn't you guys turn it off as well?
Why anyone would want their system to "auto-update" is beyond me. I think you're just asking for trouble if you do that.
Did M$ buy some stock in RedHat? Seems like all these bugs and errata stem from a basic case of the dumbass, joined together with some deadlines from the marketing droids... geezz!
That's Netcraft quoting some troll... Try running netcraft against Hotmail yourself. Go ahead. Try it 1000 times... do you see anything but IIS/W2K? I know I sure don't. This is old news. hotmail runs W2K for IIS.
you people need to put a borg eye on that redhat logo and the linux penguin.
I run redhat at home 6.2 to be exact. I did not get 7.0 because I did not see any point in doing the
upgrade at this time(I am busy with school). I have some problems with the fact that Red Hat
released 7.0 with alot of apps that are buggy. The fact of the matter is that Red Hat made a bad
judgement call are we going to hound them to Death About or move on. If you do not like the release
then DON'T USE IT. We have choices here we have other distros we can use this is the benefit of
have multiple distro you are not stuck with just one. You have choices this is the advantage of linux remember.
So instead this daemon that I've never heard of and hadn't noticed yet (my bad), installed without my consent, would have crashed my recently-upgraded personal IMAP/SMTP/CVS/web server, were it not for the fact that I read Slashdot. I've received no email from RedHat even though I purchased RH7 direct from their site. The server's colocated elsewhere, so this would have been a real hassle for me.
Installing update daemons without asking you is exactly the kind of thing Microsoft does. Sheesh! OK, I'm ready to switch distributions. My only problem is I like having reasonably bleeding-edge versions of everything (other than unwanted update daemons), and I understand that's not what Debian is about.
Recommendations, anyone?
tarballs rule! They aren't a package, they are a state of mind.
This is just too funny, and too reminiscent of Microsoft's follies. They tried to innovate by providing a daemon which searches for updated packages, but it crashes the system after 3 weeks. Gee, is that why the ZDOOM site isn't working? That's what happens when a company blindly tries to "innovate" and doesn't bugcheck.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Service packs are a great idea because you can consolidate all of the fixes into a comprehensive unit and thus you can tell people, my software will work on Redhat 7.0 service pack 3. Windows may suck, but at least for NT I can say that my software will run on NT 4.0 Service pack 3. I guess what Redhat does is best, in that it releases fixes as they are available and makes service packs available(i.e. the .1, .2, .3 are really just service packs for the .0 release). I think once FreeBSD has good support for PCMCIA, USB, vmware, and the other crap on my laptop I will be kissing Linux goodbye.
Stuart Eichert
Stuart Eichert
Usually, the bugs I see in Windows are trivial; usually stuff I haven't even tried yet. So far, I haven't been directly affected by any incident with Windows. On the other hand, Creative's drivers gave me hell with channel reversing, and now that they've bought out Aureal, I am once again at the wrath of their imps in the driver engineering section.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Speaking of this topic, I have a great concern. I've noticed that the sheer stupidity of the comments lately is increasing rapidly. It seems like all the comments are posted by complete newbies who, for instance, wouldn't even know the difference between the problem with the window manager, X, and the distro which I mentioned above. All they would say is "Redhat sucks!" even though the problem wasn't Redhat OR X, but in the window manager itself. It just makes me sick how dumb these comments are, and equally as dumb are the replies to those comments. I remember only a couple years back, if you posted a stupid comment like that you were completely laughed at or just told off for the incredibly idiocy of the comment. Now, judging from the current comments, it seems like the majority doesn't even know if an obviously stupid comment was made. And please, no more "Redhat sucks, Debian's awesome!" remarks. Half of you don't even know why that is. You still think you need to install a new distribution to "get those cool new menus in Gnome and get apache server working." Please, choose a distribution on your own. Use whichever one you like. Take advantage of it's strengths, and if you don't like using something, don't! No one is forcing you to. Some you current Slashdotters (and you know who I'm talking to), I think you need to learn how to recompile a kernel and edit /etc/inetd.conf (*ahem* Redhat auto-update) before you even talk on this forum.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Umm, I don't thinkt that was a bug with Windows NT 4.0 there buddy, I've run my servers and workstations for well over six months without reboots, the glitch was in Win95.
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When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
It does require registration, though there is an 'anonymous' registration option, that sends only your hardware archetecture (so that the right rpms get sent) and an email address. It is one of the free levels of service. (of which there are several)
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
My two K6 machines have been sentenced to the pitiful fate of running Freenixes.
Odd you would sentence the boxes to running a better OS...
I lost interest in running partially compatible AMD chips after a few months of fun with those boxes.
Also odd that you claim it to be the chips fault. I've heard few other people say thier K6-2 was buggy. Odd that their reports are never substanciated, and it never occurs to them that perhaps its the buggy Windows OS that is the problem, not the chip. I've never had any problems with the k6-2 or the newer AMD chips (i never used older ones) except that one i meantioned above (which was an MS coding problem, not a problem with the chip). So, got any proof? In fact, since they seem to be running a freenix fine, i'm definatly willing to bet it was a MS coding problem.
Windows NT 4.0 release: 1996
49.7 day bug discovered: 1999
Fix released: never
Well, it was Win 95 and 98, not NT. And it was fixed. click
You know that if this was about win2k instead of redhat there would be 500 posts saying "linux r00lz MS suckz0rs!!". The amount of bias that goes on here is incredible. Somehow taco missed the story about hotmail switching over to win2k. Thats a pretty major story, but since its pro MS it was quietly ignored.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Besides, RH has put a fix to the problem already. And if you are running that update daemon, it will just update itself, won't it? So problem fix.
Let's get some interesting news, like MPAA is having Congress sign some new stupid and evil laws, so we can bitch on those idiots. It's a more interesting game.
So, this is a bug in the update network daemon and RedHat put out a fix on the update network before the 3 weeks. So *everyone* affected already *has* the patch. So what's the problem ?
Oh, i see you were running the update daemon but aren't on the update network. Go ahead and ask for a refund.
Actually I thought of it the opposite (perhaps more pessimistic) way. The Update Manager is probably the only daemon that it can't auto-update.
I'm probably wrong, but that's what I thought at first.
Actually, most people know that RH dot zero versions might just as well be beta. As a "good" sysadmin I would actually wait for the dot two, but even dot one is acceptable; and then apply all the patches necessary to that; and remove wu-ftpd if you use ftp, use pro-ftpd. I hate to see this bug, now I can't poke fun at M$ for uptime anymore :o(
I am curious, does anyone actually know if it would download an update for itself, and fix itself? (the update daemon that is)
Presently I have to rely on the e2compr kernel patch to get all the software onto my hd and so therefore would need a replacement in a *BSD to get it working right.
Respond to s
Of course there's oxygen on my planet.How else would we get the oxide in nitrous oxide?BTW,after compiling all the data from our abductions of you humans,all we learned from the anal probes is that 1 out of 10 males don't seem to mind.
Great minds think alike,but,fools seldom differ.
The 49.7 day bug was not in NT - it was in Windows 95. We have several NT boxes at work that have not been rebooted for months and months. I still like Linux servers better but for a workstation, I still prefer NT and there sure as hell is no 49.7 day bug in NT.
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Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
OK, so I appreciate that RedHat was very responsive, but perhaps "reactive" is the correct word. What ever happened to proactive QA work? This problem indicates to me that noone thought to run 7.0 in beta for more than 3 weeks with the absolute standard installation setup. That sounds like a standard QA task to me...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Woke up this morning
Crawled out of bed
Couldn't wait to get that Red Hat distro you said
Told you to worry
Told you to wait
But no you want to mirror it from outside the state
Refrain
I got the blues
Got them old dot zero blues
Cause I done installed that distro
And it blew up on my shoes
Wish I had DSL
Wish I had fat pipes
But on a 56K modem
The download's such a fright
It's all installed now
Servers up and cool
But I come back three weeks later
And look just like a fool
Refrain
Got burned by Compaq
Got burned by Dell
Got burned by Microsoft
Now I'm in Red Hat dot zero hell
Refrain
Now don't you worry
This one's ok
It won't drop under loads now
Cause if it does we'll make you pay!
Refrain
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Who cares if there is a bug in a daemon that
crashes your computer after three weeks. There
is a fix already and if you don't apply errata
fixes in three weeks you shouldn't be complaining
anyway. Everybody seems to love to rant about
RedHat and noone seems to remember everything they've done for the community. Remember, the
fix wouldn't be out this soon if it was another
popular operating system.
What if someone didn't switch from nt to linux, what business is that of yours? According to netcraft major sites such as dell, intel, nasdaq, and nfl all use iis/win2k. If nt was so horrible as you seem to suggest, why do so many major companies use it? How many stories have there been about bugs and security holes in internet explorer/windows? You just can't stand to admit that linux is not the end all/be all of operating systems. I happen to agree that redhat *is* junk. It costs almost as much as a oem copy of win98, has security holes, and has a bloated default install.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Right, but this application doesn't "go haywire," per se, as in "crash and burn" and scribble all over other peoples' core--it uses up a resource gradually--there is a difference.
This isn't much different from an application that runs away and fills up the disk or allocates all available memory. Should Linux allow an application to deplete a resource without giving the admin a chance to kill the offender first? Probably not, and maybe this is one of those issues that will have to be addressed in the 2.5.0 tree. At any rate, Linux is still far more stable and dependable than that other OS.
slashdot broke my sig
1. They found the bug in question 2. New distribution exceeded deadline 3. Distribution was released anyway a bit later... 4. The bug is now fixed 5. Users are promptly informed of the bug
I'm tellin' ya!
Yeah, but how long did it take to be discovered?
Red Hat keeps messing up on the distros. 6.1 had some major problems, and now 7. 6.2 and 6.0 were good. Its kinda pathetic, at this rate we will be able to call Red Hat the windoze of Linux. Not that I don't like Red Hat, they just need to get their act together.
snowulf.com
Let me now release an adjustsed GNU/Linux distro lameness index.
Lameness may be affected by use of "newbie" dialogue installations, RPMs, GNOME, or KDE. Debian gets extra l337ness points for mentioning "GNU" in the product title.
In a related story, IBM recently made public their plans to sell 3-week disposable mainframes.
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All generalizations are false.
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I like to watch.
Well, actually, in Red Hat speak, /sinb is the directory where you store your pr0n - sin plus binary or sinb.
Some people like to keep their compressed Sinbad MP3 files there too, but I find that corrupts your file structure most of the time.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
The candidates themselves decided that. Then they broke that decision multiple times throughout the debate. How sad.
I didn't like having the daemon run anyway, so I disabled it. Sorta glad I did. I got the updated package anyway, though.
And this topic is important why??
Can you say, Setting up the world for disaster?
So if the Red Hat site gets h4x0r3d and someone updates /bin/login to accept '31337' and a login with no password and r00t privs, it will now automagically propagate to however many 7.0+ boxes are out there. Cracking one site now can open up millions more. Of course, all blame will rest squarely with the "evil hacker".
Who would have guessed that one day Mac OS would be more stable than linux :-)
Anyone who read that they were going to base it on BSD.
Disclaimer: I run Linux and BSD. They both have their merits.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.