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Counterexample: Litestep, a free Explorer replacement that resembles NextStep and Window Maker.

"...to produce a stripped down version of Windows that will allow 3rd party vendors to insert components such as browsers, media players, and IM clients."

Hmm... Seems to me that this has already been accomplished. Winamp anybody? How about Mozilla? And for those that want full stripped GUI and everything, just go see our friends over at Litestep.

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I've run IE with Litestep and dozens of other window managers for Win32. I see that Litestep seems to be down now. I haven't been keeping up.

it isn't the act of integrating that was against the law: It was integrating in order to preserve monopoly power that was against the law.

I agree that the problem isn't integration and I don't see how removal is the answer. They should be punished but the chances of real legal punishment are very slim.

Case 8) They're selling Windows with LiteStep installed as the shell with a KDE theme.

If Microsoft doesn't patch their bugs for us, or remove/make optional features/bugs of their operating system for us, we'll write programs that do.

Hell, I don't start IE6 without a copy of Pop Up Stopper by Panicware, since I can't turn off pop up windows like I can in Mozilla. And the really bright ones among us don't use anything but litestep :)

So who wants to start a betting pool on how long it'll take Microsoft to start lawsuits against programs like these?

Sure thing: First, install LiteStep, then get apptrans.dll installed. You can then assign a hotkey (or multiple hotkeys) to turn a window partially transparent. Best of all you can get a number of themes that already feature transparency, in addition to looking pretty cool.

Well, if you don't like the UI Windows has, you can always use litestep. Unless you're afraid of doing something simple like that, too...

So who says everyone has to be efficient? If they paid good money for something that looks nice (that they're comfortable using), who are you to say they're wrong? My mother has a hard enough time remembering how to cut&paste, you think she'd care that the background is just a "distraction"?

I prefer to have my own choice between form or function, thank you. In fact, I prefer to be able to choose form AND function... *cough*litestep*cough*

(btw, background ain't much of a distraction if you don't hide all your program icons on it ;)

I personally feel it is too bad that the Linux community can't agree to build on one graphical environment.

Yes, Linux needs to grow up and have a single, consistant interface, just like Windows. Look at the many products which accept the need for conformance under Windows. Products like Softimage (example) (though they may have an advantage, being owned by Microsoft for a while), LightWave [6] (example, check out the conforming buttons and tabs), and Kai's Power Tools (example)

Media players naturally conform to the standard Windows look and feel. Winamp led the way. Soon there were competitors like K-Jofol and Sonique which felt that they could make their mp3 players conform even better to Windows GUI standards. RealPlayer quickly followed. Apple realized they couldn't rehash the Macintosh interface for QuickTime, and delivered a version that perfectly matched the Windows standard. Not to be out done, Microsoft released a new version of the Windows Media Player which perfectly complied with the Windows standards for interfaces.

Even the next version of Windows, Windows XP, has been carefully crafted to conform to existing standards. With such strong and unwavering leadership, no one would even think of using an alternate shell or replacing the entire widget set.

Thank you, Microsoft, for getting the world to agree on one graphical environment. Thanks to your efforts to end competition, there is no risk of the Windows platform fragmenting into a pile of inconsistent applications, each making their own rules.

Just use a perl script to connect to tvguide.com, parse the actual listings, and add your own formatting, including interface. I've seen Litestep modules that do this, so it shouldn't be too hard for somebody with the know-how.

AcquaCow here...Litestep.net admin...I just wanna say that I've been using LS since may 98 and well...I have only seen LS itself truely crash only a few times...there was a period or two when LS didn't like multiple recyles...most of the time its the thrid party modules that will bring it down (hey...we all can't code perfetly can we?). I have not personally seen LiteStep crash since the 11-23-99 build. I dropped it a few times with a few modules once again, but I can recycle all I want now. I'm using the 10-6-2000 build at present and no problems here. Perhaps you should try it out again before you bash it..

-- AcquaCow

Right now I have: vwm, integrated amp controls, right click popups from the desktop, draggable task bars - basically what a unix user would want/expect.

The dev builds of litestep can be hairy at times, but most of the recent ones have been rock solid stable for me. I'd encourage anyone stuck with Windows to check out some of the Litestep themes: Turtle Soup II, Nijikon Fetchi, 21, or boxed. There are also clones of Blueheart, BlueSteel, and other themes you might be familiar with...

As for printing and file managing, I don't know what the poster was talking about - those features are still fine for me...

Right now I have: vwm, integrated amp controls, right click popups from the desktop, draggable task bars - basically what a unix user would want/expect.

The dev builds of litestep can be hairy at times, but most of the recent ones have been rock solid stable for me. I'd encourage anyone stuck with Windows to check out some of the Litestep themes: Turtle Soup II, Nijikon Fetchi, 21, or boxed. There are also clones of Blueheart, BlueSteel, and other themes you might be familiar with...

As for printing and file managing, I don't know what the poster was talking about - those features are still fine for me...

Right now I have: vwm, integrated amp controls, right click popups from the desktop, draggable task bars - basically what a unix user would want/expect.

The dev builds of litestep can be hairy at times, but most of the recent ones have been rock solid stable for me. I'd encourage anyone stuck with Windows to check out some of the Litestep themes: Turtle Soup II, Nijikon Fetchi, 21, or boxed. There are also clones of Blueheart, BlueSteel, and other themes you might be familiar with...

As for printing and file managing, I don't know what the poster was talking about - those features are still fine for me...

Right now I have: vwm, integrated amp controls, right click popups from the desktop, draggable task bars - basically what a unix user would want/expect.

The dev builds of litestep can be hairy at times, but most of the recent ones have been rock solid stable for me. I'd encourage anyone stuck with Windows to check out some of the Litestep themes: Turtle Soup II, Nijikon Fetchi, 21, or boxed. There are also clones of Blueheart, BlueSteel, and other themes you might be familiar with...

As for printing and file managing, I don't know what the poster was talking about - those features are still fine for me...

This may be successful with people who are interested in WMs like Litestep, Darkstep and other less known ones.

Having tried most of them, I'd say that they're usually buggy and quite beta. Usability is limited, mostly because you lose most of Windows' native functions (which are dependent on explorer.exe, the WM) and only implement a limited number of new ones.

This feature implementation is usually done by using plugins and modules, which are in theory a good thing. In practice it means that you usually get a slow manager that can crash or behave badly just because of one buggy plugin.

I've managed to use Litestep for a few days, but eventually went back to explorer.exe because features like file managing and printing were still tied to the latter, making the whole idea somewhat flawed.

I hope Gnome works as one would expect. If it does, I'll probably change for good.

Flavio

Well, maybe Windows Programming isn't your cup of tea, but if you want to learn about it, I would suggest writing a few Litestep modules. This is good way to learn Windows programming because you can make something small or something big and there's plenty of ideas floating around at Mind Junction. It's also nice because you can write things that you want to write.

... as someone who started out with Macs, went to Windows, and finally to Linux, MacOS X is IMHO the best of all worlds as long as they continue to allow access to command line and the ability to hack the interface.

I know it's sort of a lame reason to really like an OS. Stability and functionality should be (some of) the most important issues. But I have to admit the only reason I even tried Windows 95 was when I saw that you could replace the shell and use apps like Litestep to totally change the experience. I simply hated MS Windows, but realized the need to get to know it. After that, of course I would be interested in Linux and want to get to know it, since so much of Litestep is based on GUI's used with Linux and Unix. And that helped me get over my admittedly irrational fear of working command line, really hacking the way a computer works, etc.

/me ends overshare

I run mozilla with only 64mb of ram. 'course I'm kinda used to it being slow, what with VC++ or Photoshop running at the same time. Oh, and I use LiteStep so most of the windows aren't all on the screen at the same time

Wait a sec... I had a point... I don't know how well IE handles tables, but have you seen the deeply nested table demo? YOW! mozilla takes ages to start, and opening new windows is a little slow, but page layout is FAST compared to netscape 4.7

The Windows (as in, Win32) customization scene has been around for a long time.

There are many programs out there that allow you to change their interface, sometimes only in how they look (WinAmp), but other times in how they act (K-Jofol).

Within the past few years, there have been a number of "shells" that have come out that allow you to ditch explorer (the start menu / taskbar / desktop combination) and use your own interface, like an X-Windows window manager.

Microsoft is trying to have the best of both worlds - a standardized user interface, with the ability to change it all. Personally, I don't think it's gonna work very well, but that may be just because I used to be on the Litestep development team.

Obligatory links:
Skinz.org
DeskMod
Litestep.net
desktopian.org

And those link to many more...

The website's unfortunatly all Flash 5, so you can find a summary (and the beta binaries) here if you're flash-intolerant.

But if you want my opinion, everything pales in comparison to Litestep :)

***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***

just a guess but they are probably using Litestep as well.it would be the easiest way to get the screen shots in director.

There's plenty of theming software available for Windows. Check out Litestep (here as well) or Windowblinds.

I'm certain there are others, but I'm only familiar with those...

Those are some fine-lookin' shots

You've been able to apply different themes to Win* for quite a while now. Personally, I like my litestep desktop better.

That aside, these shots still aren't anything to get excited about. They look like windows. Know what I always wanted and couldn't get with the explorer shell? A clean desktop. Have you ever tried to remove all the icons from your stinking desktop? The only two ways that you can do it either screw the underlying system up or take up tons of memory with the active desktop.

oh well, I'm too busy to be writing this.


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you may quote me

While most are raving about Mac's OS X, Microsoft has covertly launched their latest attempt at an operating system...Windows Whistler.

"If you have a Mac or Windows and you want a new desktop you need a new OS or a new computer. "

that depends what you mean by "desktop"
litestep and others provide alternate shells.

Argh, not litestep.com, it should be www.litestep.net.

I was actually toying with a new shell for Windows, using this idea. (I currently use Litestep as a replacement shell, it's great, i have my own totally personalized UI, with everything the way i want it, with tons of keyboard shortcuts.) the problem of editing a document was solved by using a movement/typing toggle. the main problem was that people who didn't have any prior experience with FPS'es had no clue what they were doing, and had to be totally walked thru the steps. The learning curve was just too great for those types of people.

-Chris Tower
"Everything comes at a price and sooner or later, we all have to pay" -cTower

actually, you can change your shell in win9x (dunno about NT)... take a look at litestep...

i'm not saying there's a _lot_ of choice, but it is actually possible.

PS: don't flame me, i'm just playing devils advocate for a minute.

if you're interested in making cool fake OSes on a mac, check out kaleidoscope.net or on windows, check out litestep.net. these are both really nifty theming engines for their various platforms. of course, if you're lucky enough to be running X, just go to themes.org and take it away...

the bottom line is that most modern OSes can be customized much more than is first apparent, so if you want more little bells and whistles and neat stuff, you can probably get it with a little tinkering...

Enjoy!
--

They have 'allowed' chunkymunky to use the domain for non-commercial purposes.. Good news!

The story is here
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Well then, instead of accomodating this virus, why not take control of your desktop with an alternative shell (like a Window Manager). The main one I use is Litestep

Hehe, i was just looking at some windoze shell replacement doobry, came accross this screen shot (top right, the MP3 player). Wondering if this person is on Metallica`s list?? :)

• The Run dialog box in explorer is hidden. To this day, there is no export for it from any shared library, and is still often evoked by creating a function pointer to the address and calling it.
  
• The Shutdown dialog is another one
  
• Countless others
  

No, they do not seem to be aware. Which is strange since you can change the interface in windows in a limited, but significant, fashion. No I'm not talking about themes, I'm talking about replacing Explorer.exe with a seperate shell. Several shell replacements for windows are out there, most significantly Litestep which is an After/Open/NeXTStep clone... open source as well! While you just can't get around the fact that you are still using windows, you can make it as painless as possible to use. Granted it can be a bear to setup, editing step.rc files and such, but even that is getting easier as the project matures.

I have worked on an open source project, and have placed it on my resume. I did not work on the project for those particular reasons, though.

In this day and age, I find that my classmates at school, while some are very smart, can not find a good internship. This is because a company can not be sure what they are getting for an intern based on grades alone - getting good grades doesn't necessarily mean they'll do well in your company.

On the other hand, I have found that it has never been difficult for me to get a job, or at the very least considered for one up until the final round of cuts. I truly believe that the coding I have done (for Litestep) has helped me get better jobs than ones I would have had otherwise.

I found out about this a while ago, when I first heard about Litestep, but I've always wondered one thing...

Could you rewrite a version of DOS that'll work with Windows 9x and have the correct slashes ( / ) in the filesystem instead of those bass-ackward ones ( \ ) that are always in the wrong spot to type quickly?

- 8Complex

I was fortunate enough to be a part of the VA Linux Friends and Family IPO. However, I have a quandary:

I do not have a single line of code in any Linux distribution, HOWTO document, or any other software project that runs on Linux.

On the other hand, I do contribute to the Litestep project, which is sort of a "Window Manager" for Microsoft Windows.

I guess my question is "Why was I chosen?" I know you would not have a specific reason for this, but it would seem that while I am contributing to a project that benefits Windows, I didn't deserve to be a part of the VA Linux IPO, even if I am contributing to an Open Source project.

I have Linux just sitting on my machine, I've yet to find a 'killer app' for it...
I use NT for day-to-day work, and I'm not stuck with a single desktop any more - I run the Litestep window manager and have Cygwin for all my command-line needs, so I get the benefits of a unix interface and still get to use all my Windows apps...the best of both worlds :)

while i admit the win95 GUI is faster and more stable, there are many things wrong with it. it's not nearly as configurable as most x11 GUIs, in both of a visual and feel sense. it only has one "workspace" or "virtual window" or "layer" or whatever you want to call it. and of course since it's "integrated" into the OS, if it crases, so does your computer.

Well, yes and no. Windows isn't out of the box themeable, but there are third party solutions available. There are also virtual desktops available.

For example, there is a port of Afterstep to Windows called Litestep (I don't have a decent URL to post... you can try Litestep.net but it seems to be dead) which will give you virtual desktops.

Stardock has a product called Windowblinds which will skin titlebars, window borders, menus and buttons (not scroll bars or progress bars yet) as well as allowing translucency and bitmap backgrounds for explorer windows. They also have IconPackager (theme manager for icons) and Control Center (virtual desktops and app launcher [kind of like CDE bar or KDE bar). You can learn more at their web site.

I have a Cirque touchpad that I've loved since I got it. It's not a problem for me, being right-handed, but most(maybe all) cirque touchads are fully symetrical/ambidextrous. Unfortunately, Cirque seems totally uninterested in either giving out the requisite info or in providing Linux drivers, so the thing is vastly more useful in Windows than Linux. (Grrr....) Then again, I rely WAY less on the mouse in Linux anyway. Custom keyboard shortcuts just rule, yah know? Under Windows though, I can surf for 10 hours straight or more and not really notice any fatigue. Windows really isn't too bad once you replace the desktop shell(I use litestep ) and Explorer.exe(with a file manager and/or separate "find" utility. It's actually almost stable now. Also get those crappy Netscape and IE browsers off there (Opera rules!) and you're starting to get something usable that works with you instead of against you.

I HIGHLY recommend it for people stuck using windows at work who wish they could use Linux. it may still be windows, but at least it looks nice. :) You can get Litestep HERE. Try it...you'll thank me. :)

Litestep is good, powerful, flexible, no more unstable than Windows Explorer, and best of all, GPLed.
---(litestep.net)---
Litestep info at Floach.pimpin.net

If you run LiteSpawn as well, Litestep becomes even more stable than Windows Explorer.
http://www.litestep.org/files/fi les/litespawn.html

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