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The MiniDisc is not so mini, and it requires lossy compression to store a full album.

Hmmm, it uses a form of compression called ATRAC. It compresses at 4:1, so the 175MB MiniDisc can hold a full 80 minutes of music. ATRAC is less compression than mp3, with higher sound quality. (I am very picky about such things as my speakers and headphones, and I can't tell the difference between an original CD and a digitally transferred MD. I can certainly identify an mp3, though, even encoded at 320kbps.) Newer MD recorders/players even offer the option to record at higher compression, so you can fit more for slightly worse quality (haven't listened to it, so I can't comment on it.) Remember, lossy does not always equal crap. A jpeg at maximum quality is almost indistinguishable from an uncompressed file, yet is significantly smaller.

I've never seen a non-Sony MD player. Is the technology licensed to any other companies?

Well, since your first statement makes it obvious that you are biased against MD, you would have no reason to take notice, would you? While MD has been waning in the U.S. for a copule years, it is still VERY popular in Europe and Asia (where people understand that a 2.5" hard-shelled disc is vastly superior to a 12cm easily scratched medium.) In the U.S., MD seemed to have its heyday between 3 and 5 years ago. At that point, I remember seeing models (portable, mini-system, component, and car) from Sharp, Aiwa, Sony, JVC, Pioneer, Blaupunkt, and Kenwood. I currently, or have in the past, owned models from Sony, Sharp, JVC, and Pioneer. All purchased in the U.S. from major retailers, not specialty import electronics stores. Currently, Crutchfield has 20 models from 4 different manufacturers. And, according to the 'fan' site, MiniDisc.org, all major Japanese manufacturers currently make MD recorders/players for sale in Japan.

MiniDisc.ORG

I just purchased a iPod to replace my Minidisc player. Xplay works pretty well and allows me to manage the music files from a Windows box.

The Minidisc's big advantage is the small size of the players (man, those things are TINY!) and relatively high storage capacity (2.5 hours of pretty good quality with MDLP capable models). However, you're still stuck with recording music in real-time and that was becoming a bit of a pain because I change playlists pretty often.

The 5GB iPod stores somewhere between 40 and 80 hours of music and although you can't create new playllists on the fly (you must create the playlist on your PC/Mac instead) music uploading/downloading is far faster than the Minidisc and it has a great user interface. The battery life isn't too great (6 hours maybe?) but it charges whenever you plug it in and only takes an hour or so to get to full charge from 0%, so how bad can that be?

They're not any smaller than minidiscs, and they're a lot more fragile, a lot less flexible, a lot less powerful, more expensive, no better quality, and no longer recording time (oh, I meant to say NO recording time).

That's like saying the 3.5 inch floppies are not any smaller than 5.25 inch floppies. A Dataplay disc is approximately 1 inch by 1 inch, while a minidisc is at least four times the area (approximately 2.75 inches by 2.5 inches), and you find the difference in physical area neglible?

no better quality and no longer recording time? Let's see, the minidisc stores a maximum of 160Mb of data. The dataplay disc stores 500Mb.

(Reference: minidisc.org)

I'm shocked that a troll account with such a low userid still hasn't been trollslapped or disabled. And for posts like these, Taco really needs the moderation (-1, Complete Lie)

While I just moderated you +1 Interesting, I had to reply. MiniDiscs need not be recorded in real time no longer. Look at MiniDisc.org's website for NetMD. 4x upwards to 16x now I believe.

Very impressive, but still not available.

MSRP of $350, when you consider that an iPod was available 6 months ago, at $400.

Actually, I was right, for 2 reasons...

1. Those digital outputs were on players, not the discs themselves. (Saved by my own poor choice of words -- that's a talent I should further develop!!)

2. I should have been more specific. What these guys put out is digital uncompressed music - not the original compressed data that was on the disc. To make a copy, this music has to be recompressed again. With lossless compression, this would be no problem -- all the compression/decompressions cycles would yield perfect copies. But, minidisc uses lossy [i.e. f'(f(x)) != x] compression that isn't totally symetric [i.e. f'(f(f'(f(x)))) != x ], so a little noise is introduced into each generation, even if its transfered digitally. more info here. I'd love to hear that you can read/write the compressed digital data!

I didn't know that there were digital outs [even if they're not the ones I was thinking of]! At $460, the rack unit isn't even outrageously expensive.

The units themselves are tiny (most of them are in the 80x16x75mm range) and weigh almost nothing (the Sharp MD-MT770 weighs 128g). The discs are infinitely re-recordable and cost about $1.50 each.

Depending on the level of compression you record at, shock protection can be up to 160 seconds. Most units have rechargeable batteries and can also use an extra AA for backup yielding incredible battery life -- the MT770 for example can play up to 49 hours on the highest compression level (35 on the regular SP mode).

One of the coolest advantages they have over mp3 players is that you can record concerts at virtually CD quality sound. Plug a microphone into the in-jack and you can bootleg with ease. Most of the latest recorders feature manually adjustable recording levels (while recording!), automatic 3/5/10 minute timestamping, audio syncing and optical line-in (which means you can optically record mp3s from a computer equipped with optical-out). Some of the Sony recorders (MZ-R700DPC for example) ship with external D/A converter that connects the MD's digital input with your computer's USB port, which makes recording all internet audio formats quite easy.

You can shuffle tracks around on a disc on the fly, delete them, insert new ones and of course there are the usual random/repeat play modes.

You can get an entry-level MDLP (2x/4x recording) player/recorder for around $215. Compared to paying $90 for each 256mb flashcard, they are really cost efficient.

I have a Sharp MD-MT77 which I am quite happy with. I make 5 hour playlists in xmms, plug the recorder into my soundcard's line-out and make mix MDs. 5 hours is a lot of space to work with -- and the quality is quite decent. At 2x (160 minutes), recordings sound virtually like CD quality.

Check out minidisc.org for more information, or minidisco.com for a run-down on most of the available models.

Check out the new Sony MZR-5/7/900 models (over here). Sharp and AIWA also have some nice, small units. My MZR-700 is not much bigger than three stacked MD cassettes. On top of that, newer recorders have MDLP compression, giving you 2x or 4x the recording time. Using MDLP4 compression, I can record 320 minutes (that's almost five and a half hours) on a single disc. And if you shop carefully, you'll find blanks for about US$1. Of course, using compression means that sound quality suffers. I can't tell the difference between CD and MD, but MD using MDLP2 has a slight flatness to it, and MDLP4 sounds even flatter, and a little tinny. Still, much better than tape or FM broadcast, and not something most would notice until compared side by side. Combine long play time with the small size, durability, and re-recordability of MD, the long playback time of newer players, and the inexpensiveness of media, and MD is the way to go. Until solid state media can settle on one standard and comes WAAAAYYYY down in price, all those MP3 players can bite me!

To say minidisc's took off in the UK is rather nieve , a recent professional audio magazine here ran an article on minidisc and called a huge amount of mastering houses and studios to see if they mastered with minidisc, the result was a resounding 0 (nil) absolutly no studios mastered with them, why ?

well Atrac (Adaptive Transform Acoustic Coding for MiniDisc) is a very clever compression method that actually throws away a staggering 85% of the available input signal, this means that what you actually listen to on your player is only 15% of the original source, ATRAC is an audio coding system based on psychoacoustic principles , so as the average ear and brain is rather clever also, it can ignore the fact that 85% is missing and rebuild in your brain the missing 85% from the 15% available resulting in you hearing your latest and greates tune and saving space on a 2" disc.
Of course the more discerning listener can hear the fact that most of the nuances are missing and that the music sounds lifeless and dull, ARTRAC is basically Sony's answer to mp3 except technically worse, hence its failed as a professional format in any respects.

if you really cared about your listening experience minidisc is probably the worst thing you could listen to, even cassette with its antique encodings records more of the signal.

for those who would like a more technical description of the ATRAC format that can be found here

They never took off in the USA maybe, but I'm sitting here kicking with my MD player, a lot of people I know have MD's, on their systems, DiscMan's and in the car (my 65 year old uncle has one at home and in the car).

They were a big hit in Europe ever since they changed their strategy about four years ago and targeted them as more as a replacement for the cassette. You can get some really smooth MD kit quite cheap now, the prices keep falling.

As a pre-recorded format they never took of apart from in Japan, but it's certainly live and kicking as a cassette/CD hybrid.

Why not buy a MD player with LP4 compression? I know this doesn't play MP3's but you get a very small and sexy machine with long playback time on only one battery and 4 albums on one MD.

Of course, it doesn't beat mp3's compression but the cd-mp3 players out there at the moment don't handle knocks very well and look very cheap and plasticy.

As soon as I've saved up, that will be what I'll be doing. Yes it would be nice to run mp3's from an ipaq but the battery life on one of those things is low enough as it is, without hammering it playing music.

--

As long as the MD firewall remains intact (preventing direct access to the compressed audio data) the lossy, assymetric nature of each decompression and recompression generation makes it a perfect copy protection scheme (in that no external signal hacking can defeat it).

Note that with special care, an audio codec can be designed to minimize generational loss (see Frank Kurth's paper (PDF)). See also a discussion of the MD generational loss problem and Minidisc.org for further general coverage of the Minidisc format.

As long as the MD firewall remains intact (preventing direct access to the compressed audio data) the lossy, assymetric nature of each decompression and recompression generation makes it a perfect copy protection scheme (in that no external signal hacking can defeat it).

Note that with special care, an audio codec can be designed to minimize generational loss (see Frank Kurth's paper (PDF)). See also a discussion of the MD generational loss problem and Minidisc.org for further general coverage of the Minidisc format.

As long as the MD firewall remains intact (preventing direct access to the compressed audio data) the lossy, assymetric nature of each decompression and recompression generation makes it a perfect copy protection scheme (in that no external signal hacking can defeat it).

Note that with special care, an audio codec can be designed to minimize generational loss (see Frank Kurth's paper (PDF)). See also a discussion of the MD generational loss problem and Minidisc.org for further general coverage of the Minidisc format.

EDL has hacked the firmware of the Sony SCSI MD-Data drive, allowing to also use MD-audio discs on it, and not only MD-Data discs as Sony wants it. I heard they do NOT have good relations with Sony. This is quite expensive, but I guess intensive users, like radio stations for instance are customers for this. See also the great minidisc.org

The audio on the disc is in Sony's propratory ATRAC format and they usually like people to buy a piece of hardware with the ATRAC chips in it. While there's software from Sony to rename and reorder tracks on the disc, software methods of getting at the audio have always had to reverse engineer Sony's encoding method. That's not to say it can't be done, just it costs a bit. Take a look at the Electronic Design Lab home page. For a little more info on the Sony MDH-10 drive mentioned, look here....

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MDH-10.html

How can it be a personal insult when you're anonymous? 8-)

>no-one has yet managed to produce 700Mb ROM cartridges cost effectively.

I'm going to make a note of this and put it next to these quotes.

You're assuming:
- That every playstation CD uses all 700MB.
- That a game like Tony Hawk couldn't be cut down in any way to fit into another form factor.
- That memory technology is static.

Call me a technological optimist, but I believe this problem can be solved. For example, Sony already has MD Data 2 discs with 650MB capacity on the market.

- Twid

ATRAC is the compression used for MD (MiniDisc). You can read more here at www.minidisc.org.

ATRAC is the compression used for MD (MiniDisc). You can read more here at www.minidisc.org.

I notice that most of the other posters here claim "MD isn't dead" but every time I'm at BestBuy or the like I see an increasingly smaller MD display and more emphasis on CD-R(W). MD prerecordeds are nonexistant (Sony had a few titles from their own in-house labels, I never saw others).

That being said, I believe MD is a superior technology. I just wish that Sony would get off their arses and give us MP3 capabilities. Somebody did a great mockup of a Palm/MD/MP3 combo player which would be HUGE if someone would actually build it.

The one thing missing from flash-based MP3 players is their cost per unit of storage. MD is the ideal storage media for MP3.

Minidisc's employ the SCMS (Serial Copy Mangement System) copy protection scheme, which basically means you can't make a digital copy of a digital copy. You can read a short CDR versus Minidisc review here and you can find out information about the Prospec MSP-730 SCMS "stripper" right here. The MSP-730 basically outputs unlimited SCMS bits to allow you to copy digital copies. I believe the article is a bit old, so there may or may not be other products like the 730 available. According to the article, the DMCA made this product illegal, but perhaps you could find someone somewhere still selling them, I haven't looked so I don't know. If you're intested in knowing more about the Minidisc, you can also check out the Minidisc FAQ.

You may also be interested in a few products that make use of the MD for storing data, such as camcorders or cameras. Here's a nice page to look at (with pictures ;) and also here.

My dream is to own a minidisc someday, but at £200 for a good one, they're out of my price range for the moment.
Go to minidisc.org to find out more, including : how to use it as a dictaphone and more geeky apps, such as mapping global weather patterns(!!!).
Also, I've seen reviews of MDs with built in mics, but I can't remember any details at the moment.

8)

Most of the retrieval methods that you could possibly try involve fooling the MD into writing a new table of contents (TOC).

The trick is to record a 74 minute track on another disc, then eject it without the recorder knowing. This is the tricky part. It usually involves the MD's service mode, or a screwdriver. After you have that disc out, you put your previously screwed one in. You pretend to make a small change, such as a track marker, and then get the recorder to write another TOC by stopping it or trying to eject it.

If the bad disc was fragmented at all, you're screwed unless you like piecing track parts back together.

As a previous poster said, check out minidisc.org for more specific info. They will probably have the information about service mode for your MD device.

Let us know how this one turns out. Good luck!

I rue the day when ./ers start doing a little research on their own before crying to the masses for help. Anyways - here it is:

If the problem is with the TOC, you might have a chance. Were you editing the disk when the problem happened? If the TOC hasn't been written - then there are methods to get to the old TOC.

Anyways - check out minidisc.org or do a Google search. I'd reccomend a search string of "minidisc audio lost file recover" or something like that.

Good luck on recorvering the file. Hope it was something you can record again.

For short term portable listening, I think it is pretty dead. MP3 players are lighter, easier to load music onto and there are lots of them to choose from. The only problem is that the media costs a lot. If you want to listen to a lot of different music, you either spend a lot of money on media, or you copy the music often. For the common /.er copying often is just fine. However, not everyone sits down at their PC several times a day. That is one thing that keeps it alive, no need for a PC.

The thing I love about my MZ-R90 is being able to take my player on a trip with a handful of discs and know that I'll be entertained the whole time. I'm not entertained for more than a few hours with 32 or 64MB of MP3s. My rechargeable NiMH battery lasts at least 12 hours, and I have two, so battery life has never been an issue for me.

The thing that has kept me buying Minidisc equipment has been the superb portable recording ability. There is nothing which is so small which can record for so long and sound so good. It is great for recording all kinds of live music. My only complaint is switching discs. But that time is lower now because my player can begin recording before the disc is even spinning.

Finally, there's always a lot of activity at minidisc.org.

Are you looking for this?

It always seems the way with sony. THey come up with a technology, some good, some bad, but they keep it all to themselves and the technology goes nowhere but for very small niche environments.

Take a look at this list. Count the number of non-Sony manufacturers making MD products. Consider that Sony co-created the CD format with Philips and that's a long way from a niche technology.

FWIW, I think SACD stands a much better chance of acceptance (even though I'm not willing to upgrade CD players yet, the single-disc Sony SACD player is about 400ukp from the discount hifi shops), because:

• They've got players out there and in shops now, whereas the DVD-A players are still obscenely priced boxes that are still doing their rounds with the hifi press.
• Backwards compatibility with CD - there can be a layer on the disc that has a plain CD-Audio version, meaning it'll play on all your existing CD players and record shops can just stock the SACD, rather than CD and DVD-A. Who'd buy a disc that they can play on their main player, but not in the kitchen or in their car?
• Support from Sony, who (like it or not) sell a lot of records - therefore a sizeable chunk of releases on SACD, and industry support from the start.
• While I don't doubt there'll be SDMI-watermarking-whatever bullshit, at least there's stuff like digital outputs so you can record to MD, DAT, PC, etc at a decent quality. DVD-A spec doesn't allow any digital outputs (Oh no! they'll steal our music!)

I don't find it compelling enough to upgrade for a long time (I'd rather sit and wait and see what happens), but my money's on SACD winning this one. The only thing in DVD-A's favour is that people are familiar with the name (then watch the disappointment when they realise their DVD-Video player won't play them..)

--
qube

MP3 players are all the rage, but everyone seems to be overlooking one major flaw: flash memory is really expensive. 64 MB of songs just isn't enough, even for a bus ride to work. What you need is a format that is cheaper than flash, but just as portable and durable.

Independent-minded techies will want to take a good, long look at getting their hands on MiniDisc hardware. Tiny, durable, long battery life, and $2.50 for 74 min. of nearly indestructible, rewritable, random-access storage is hard to beat. The sound quality on recent units is really CD-quality, considerably better than 128Kbps MP3. 12 hour battery life is nothing to sneeze at, either.

Portable recorder units like the Sony MZ-R90 can be had for around $320, while a player like the E60 or E75 is around $200. Pick up a home deck to go with a player-only model, and you're set. Minidisco and Planet MiniDisc are good sources of equipment and discs.

If you're in the Playstation-2-on-eBay price range, then the Ghibli ga Ippai, or Full of Ghibli, laserdisc boxed set is what you need. All of Studio Ghibli's wonderful films (except Princess Mononoke, which it predates) are collected in one box, with high-quality laserdisc transfers. No subtitles, though; you'll have to print out translated scripts unless your Japanese is really good. A new set would have cost Y98000, or about $1000. Unfortunately, it is now out of print, so you will have to either a) check eBay daily or b) get friends in Japan to scour the dusty back shelves of anime shops. Good luck. (Selling one?)

Yep, agree :)

I've been a Minidisc user for close to a year and it's been great for my purposes - it's the nicest portable format available.

I had my little portable recorder for a year, but the big draw came when I decided to replace my car stereo. Although I have a sizable MP3 collection (~35gb), with all my own music ripped, I decided MP3 was not the way to go.

I don't want to have a PC in my boot, or spend loads of cash (and time) on kits like this one, or blow over a grand on an Empeg. I just wanted something that would let me listen to the music that I like in my car (rather than the tedious radio stations) with the minimum of hassle.

Tape - just sucks, frankly

CDR - had the drive already, but not re-recordable, car CD players are notoriously fussy with them, they're fiddly to use in-car (unless you just shove them in the door pocket and let them get scratched after a couple of weeks)

MP3/flash - either wiring up a portable player (been there, done that with my MD - too much hassle for everyday use) or paying at least 150ukp for a unit that sits on the dash and demands feeding with expensive flash cards. No thanks.

MP3/CDR - not available yet, same issues as regular audio CDR (fragility, etc).

MP3/HD - troublesome and expensive to set up, overkill for my needs (daily journey is no more than 1/2hr, longest one-off journey about 6 hours - who needs 2 weeks of music on tap?), concerns about durability (temp, vibrations, etc)

Minidisc - super-durable, recent units have excellent SQ, cheap (Sony units start at 160ukp/$350 in US - a small amount more than their equivalent CD player), available and inexpensive media (I've just bought 20 80min MDs for 0.79 each).

I love MD as a portable format too - flash MP3 players just seem hopelessly tied to PCs, and require you to spend a lot on flash media if you want more than an hour's music. The HD and CDR options aren't really "portable" - I certainly can't carry them about in the way I do with my MD.

I can see the appeal of the flash players - people with large MP3 collections that are organised enough to put new material on it every day. I barely leave myself enough time for a Palm hotsync..

Sure, MD isn't without it's flaws - most people are limited to 1x recording (there are several CD/MD products that will copy faster (eg. MXD-D3), and strong rumours of faster PC links), and the issue of titling. Basically, you don't get titles unless you put them on yourself. However, keyboard inputs and titling projects can help out a lot. At worse (no titles), it's no less usable than CDR.

Another nice bonus - it's a very simple way to capture streaming audio and the like. Rather than messing about with loopback cables+wave recorders, hacked about software, etc, I just plug my MD into the lineout and slide the REC switch.

It's a shame the format's never caught on in the US - in the UK it's steadily growing. All the electrical chains have a decent range of units, many of the mini/micro systems include a MD deck, and blanks are even available in supermarkets..

I don't see it as a competitor for MP3, just an excellent replacement for cassette tape and a superior to formats like CDR. If they bothered to promote it properly, the buying public might see what a good format it is.

--
qube

Yep, agree :)

I've been a Minidisc user for close to a year and it's been great for my purposes - it's the nicest portable format available.

I had my little portable recorder for a year, but the big draw came when I decided to replace my car stereo. Although I have a sizable MP3 collection (~35gb), with all my own music ripped, I decided MP3 was not the way to go.

I don't want to have a PC in my boot, or spend loads of cash (and time) on kits like this one, or blow over a grand on an Empeg. I just wanted something that would let me listen to the music that I like in my car (rather than the tedious radio stations) with the minimum of hassle.

Tape - just sucks, frankly

CDR - had the drive already, but not re-recordable, car CD players are notoriously fussy with them, they're fiddly to use in-car (unless you just shove them in the door pocket and let them get scratched after a couple of weeks)

MP3/flash - either wiring up a portable player (been there, done that with my MD - too much hassle for everyday use) or paying at least 150ukp for a unit that sits on the dash and demands feeding with expensive flash cards. No thanks.

MP3/CDR - not available yet, same issues as regular audio CDR (fragility, etc).

MP3/HD - troublesome and expensive to set up, overkill for my needs (daily journey is no more than 1/2hr, longest one-off journey about 6 hours - who needs 2 weeks of music on tap?), concerns about durability (temp, vibrations, etc)

Minidisc - super-durable, recent units have excellent SQ, cheap (Sony units start at 160ukp/$350 in US - a small amount more than their equivalent CD player), available and inexpensive media (I've just bought 20 80min MDs for 0.79 each).

I love MD as a portable format too - flash MP3 players just seem hopelessly tied to PCs, and require you to spend a lot on flash media if you want more than an hour's music. The HD and CDR options aren't really "portable" - I certainly can't carry them about in the way I do with my MD.

I can see the appeal of the flash players - people with large MP3 collections that are organised enough to put new material on it every day. I barely leave myself enough time for a Palm hotsync..

Sure, MD isn't without it's flaws - most people are limited to 1x recording (there are several CD/MD products that will copy faster (eg. MXD-D3), and strong rumours of faster PC links), and the issue of titling. Basically, you don't get titles unless you put them on yourself. However, keyboard inputs and titling projects can help out a lot. At worse (no titles), it's no less usable than CDR.

Another nice bonus - it's a very simple way to capture streaming audio and the like. Rather than messing about with loopback cables+wave recorders, hacked about software, etc, I just plug my MD into the lineout and slide the REC switch.

It's a shame the format's never caught on in the US - in the UK it's steadily growing. All the electrical chains have a decent range of units, many of the mini/micro systems include a MD deck, and blanks are even available in supermarkets..

I don't see it as a competitor for MP3, just an excellent replacement for cassette tape and a superior to formats like CDR. If they bothered to promote it properly, the buying public might see what a good format it is.

--
qube

So, even if I hook my mixer to a set of analog ins on a sound card and record the school choir (using the hard disk to store the bits), the computer is not a digital audio recording device, and the hard disk is not a digital recording medium. Even if I have a dedicated computer which does nothing else, rackmounted in a nice SKB case with the rest of my gear, it doesn't count -- because it's not "primarily marketed" that way. Ha! Plain facts, on head. Convenient, phoney definitions.

Pro-level equipment (ie. stuff that's primarily designed for recording from scrach where SCMS restrictions would get in the way) isn't covered by the AHRA either.

It doesn't matter if it's a computer, DAT, CDR, Minidisc, whatever - if it doesn't enforce SCMS then you're not granted "immunity from suit". Which is irrelevant anyway if you're recording stuff you're allowed to record in the first place - the AHRA is about allowing people to record other people's music for their own personal use as long as they comply with the conditions of the Act.

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qube

[IANAL, etc.]

The brief the White House has filed is not a 'shut down Napster' argument. It simply states that Napster should not be allowed to use the Home Recording Act as a legal defense (which is one of the many defenses Napster has put forth.)

This is a VERY good thing.

Quite. It would also fly in the face of the legal precedent set by the Diamond Rio case, which basically stated that an MP3 player (and the computer it relies on) is not a digital recording device as defined in the AHRA .

But in simple terms, what does the AHRA say? That (if you're American) you're granted immunity to make non-commercial copies for your own private use if you use analogue equipment or digital with SCMS enforced. Note it doesn't say it's legal/lawful - just that you have "immunity from suit". Pro-level equipment (that doesn't follow SCMS and will copy anything) doesn't allow you that immunity, and neither do computers (which have no way to implement SCMS - well, there's SDMI *cough* :-) ).

You can't have it both ways - either your computer is a digital recording device and you pay the RIAA tax on every computer, hard disk and data CDR media, or it isn't and while people will go on burning audio CDs and storing MP3s on their disks they won't be granted their immunity under the AHRA.

It's a lame defence on Napster's part though - they're trying to justify their users actions with some very shaky interpretation. It's also quite amusing that they're taking the "OK, there's massive infringement but our users are allowed to do that" attitude while their Terms of Use still state "you will not: (i) use the Napster service to infringe the intellectual property rights of others in any way".

The White House doesn't particularly favour the RIAA - it's just speaking sense. Napster are shooting themselves in the foot badly with this defence - they'd be wise to just drop it before they look like fools in court.

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qube

You mean like this?

Damn, I'd pay perhaps as much as $1k for one of those in color. I'm sure it would have to be a bit bigger than that. It would have to have support for reading a FAT32 filesystem as well, and when you plugged it into your PC it would have to come up as a removable storage device, like their new cameras.

In fact, yes, I'd definitely shell out a G for all of that functionality.

Are you listening, Sony?

I think they need to come out with a portable Minidisc recorder like this one but with the ability to interface to the palm or a PC for data storage. Ideally, as a "backpack" or some kind of extension like modems or other palm peripherals so that it felt like "one" thing.

You mean like this?

Too bad it was an April Fool's hoax (which I fell for, hook, line, and sinker. I suck.), but it was a good one. And it's a genius idea, Sony (or somebody) really oughta do it.

The feature list should have tipped me off - it just did too much :-) All kinds of crazy shit: playing minidiscs, interface (via USB) to a computer to act as a removable 140MB drive, everything a Palm can do (including a color model), use minidiscs as storage for the Palm, etc, etc...

Dammit, now I want one again :-(
--

Sony's Memory Stick players (like the NW-MS7)won't play MP3s. Instead they come with software that merrily converts your MP3 collection into hoplessly restricted, SDMI-compliant music files, encoded with their own proprietary ATRAC3 format [nb: different from the ATRAC that Minidisc uses, except for the newest MDLP decks].

Using their Win98-only software, you end up with files that can only be played on your (single) PC, and on up to 3 portables that you own.

Of course, you can't transfer the music files back to the PC. You can't burn a CDR of these files and listen to them at work (they're keyed to your player at home). As it seems to assume that every MP3 is copyrighted and the owners want to have their work subject to SDMI restrictions, any "free" music you have gets screwed if you want to listen to it on your Sony device.

The GadgetSquad review goes into the restrictions with more detail.

On the other hand, Sony are now starting to release their "Internet Audio" Minidisc packages, which include a USB link to your PC (they're also offering the kit free to owners of recent MD recorders). It's still realtime, but way better than the lameass SDMI players, and hopefully will push MD a bit harder to the MP3 market - one that it's very well suited to.

I went out and bought a minidisc player for about $200. It is a dream since discs are only $1.50 a piece and hold as much as a CD. It supports digital recording and is smaller than almost all mp3 players except maybe that mp3 player in a pen from sony. Anyway, it will save you on flash costs and on long trips, having ALL of your music instead of 32 megs worth is a real plus. Only downside that I have found, realtime recording, but you only record once so it hasn't been a hassle. Check out minidisc.org if you are interested. Some players even support text transfer from the computer ect, and it saves so much on media costs.

In the case of DAT the recording industry succeeded in having consumer level equipement confirm to the SCMS copy protection scheme. Thereby effectively killing the format. Extensive but dated FAQ at http://www.minidisc.org/dat-heads-faq.ht ml

Sony has 650MB MDs for its video camera that uses MDs. Sharp has developed 1.2GB MD, but I believe it's only in the lab. Search for the articles on www.minidisc.org.

I just wish the format was more open so that good data I/O for them could be developed. It would kick the ass of most removable media. Imagine a programmable DSP (change the codec) based on MDs.

> I've used mini-discs for a few months but I
> got sick of them quickly.

I've used them for years, and am not sick of
them yet.

> Copying is mostly done with analog connections,

I use digital connection *all* the time. I believe
digital is used far more than analog, but...

> so copying a 74 minute MD takes 74 minutes...

even with digital, 74 minites takes 74 minutes,
unless you have a unit which copies faster.
These units are new, relative to MD itself, but
they're not that expensive - I was suprised.
A lot of bookshelf systems can copy at double speed,
and there are CD/MD units which can copy
at 5X speed.

> This is why I switched to the Rio 500. It's got
> a USB interface, so it only takes a minute or so
> to copy a CDs worth of music.

Copy, sure, but how long does it take to encode
that CD? Remember, an MD unit is actually encoding
too. Maybe it's become faster than when I last
tried it. I guess it depends on how fast your CPU
and CDROM drive is.

Furthermore, unless I'm much mistaken, right now,
you need a computer to do that copying. IMO, until
they remove the computer from the equation, MP3
fail to be a success in the consumer marker, and
will remain a gadget for geeks. I'm a geek, and
if I had the patience to bother with encoding
CDs through my computer, then I might be tempted
by an MP3 unit, but I can't be bothered.

> Waste of time, and doesn't encourage keeping
> your MDs up to date.

Fair enough. However, the high cost of the media
encourages you to keep MP3s on a computer, rather
than on the media, which makes me less inclined to
listen to them. I prefer to keep MDs like I would
a cassette or CD collection. I don't mind MP3 per
say, but personally I prefer to keep my music on
the media I'll be playing it on. If I have MP3, I
can record them to MD quite easily. Of course,
you often lose quality with MP3, compared to
ATRAC, but I'm no audiophile, so I probably
wouldn't notice.

All a matter of personal preference, I guess.

> I've used mini-discs for a few months but I
> got sick of them quickly.

I've used them for years, and am not sick of
them yet.

> Copying is mostly done with analog connections,

I use digital connection *all* the time. I believe
digital is used far more than analog, but...

> so copying a 74 minute MD takes 74 minutes...

even with digital, 74 minites takes 74 minutes,
unless you have a unit which copies faster.
These units are new, relative to MD itself, but
they're not that expensive - I was suprised.
A lot of bookshelf systems can copy at double speed,
and there are CD/MD units which can copy
at 5X speed.

> This is why I switched to the Rio 500. It's got
> a USB interface, so it only takes a minute or so
> to copy a CDs worth of music.

Copy, sure, but how long does it take to encode
that CD? Remember, an MD unit is actually encoding
too. Maybe it's become faster than when I last
tried it. I guess it depends on how fast your CPU
and CDROM drive is.

Furthermore, unless I'm much mistaken, right now,
you need a computer to do that copying. IMO, until
they remove the computer from the equation, MP3
fail to be a success in the consumer marker, and
will remain a gadget for geeks. I'm a geek, and
if I had the patience to bother with encoding
CDs through my computer, then I might be tempted
by an MP3 unit, but I can't be bothered.

> Waste of time, and doesn't encourage keeping
> your MDs up to date.

Fair enough. However, the high cost of the media
encourages you to keep MP3s on a computer, rather
than on the media, which makes me less inclined to
listen to them. I prefer to keep MDs like I would
a cassette or CD collection. I don't mind MP3 per
say, but personally I prefer to keep my music on
the media I'll be playing it on. If I have MP3, I
can record them to MD quite easily. Of course,
you often lose quality with MP3, compared to
ATRAC, but I'm no audiophile, so I probably
wouldn't notice.

All a matter of personal preference, I guess.

In the past Sony and other japanese companies have chosen to not sell cool technology to the american public. This goes all the way back to 1987 when the japanese version of the Nintendo (Famicom) had some rudimentary online services.

A lot of technology utilizing the MD format has been marketed in Japan since it was created as a format in 1992. The Minidisc.org has a extensive list of such products.
The most interesting page has cool data devices

A really awesome system could be created using technology Sony already owns. They could start selling MD-Mavica's here and introduce a MD drive for the Playstation 2. You could then upload your photos into the PS2's Hard drive and send them to people or use them as part of a 3D game. This would also allow you to buy downloadable music from the web and record it to MD. And since the MD cameras can also play MD audio discs you would have a multipurpose device like the Sony DSC-MD1 or the Sharp MD-PS1.

Hey Sony are you listening!?! Americans Want these cool toys too!!

Boss:I'm not Indecisive; I'm flexible.
Employee: That would explain how your head got where it is.
-scott adams

In the past Sony and other japanese companies have chosen to not sell cool technology to the american public. This goes all the way back to 1987 when the japanese version of the Nintendo (Famicom) had some rudimentary online services.

A lot of technology utilizing the MD format has been marketed in Japan since it was created as a format in 1992. The Minidisc.org has a extensive list of such products.
The most interesting page has cool data devices

A really awesome system could be created using technology Sony already owns. They could start selling MD-Mavica's here and introduce a MD drive for the Playstation 2. You could then upload your photos into the PS2's Hard drive and send them to people or use them as part of a 3D game. This would also allow you to buy downloadable music from the web and record it to MD. And since the MD cameras can also play MD audio discs you would have a multipurpose device like the Sony DSC-MD1 or the Sharp MD-PS1.

Hey Sony are you listening!?! Americans Want these cool toys too!!

Boss:I'm not Indecisive; I'm flexible.
Employee: That would explain how your head got where it is.
-scott adams

In the past Sony and other japanese companies have chosen to not sell cool technology to the american public. This goes all the way back to 1987 when the japanese version of the Nintendo (Famicom) had some rudimentary online services.

A lot of technology utilizing the MD format has been marketed in Japan since it was created as a format in 1992. The Minidisc.org has a extensive list of such products.
The most interesting page has cool data devices

A really awesome system could be created using technology Sony already owns. They could start selling MD-Mavica's here and introduce a MD drive for the Playstation 2. You could then upload your photos into the PS2's Hard drive and send them to people or use them as part of a 3D game. This would also allow you to buy downloadable music from the web and record it to MD. And since the MD cameras can also play MD audio discs you would have a multipurpose device like the Sony DSC-MD1 or the Sharp MD-PS1.

Hey Sony are you listening!?! Americans Want these cool toys too!!

Boss:I'm not Indecisive; I'm flexible.
Employee: That would explain how your head got where it is.
-scott adams

In the past Sony and other japanese companies have chosen to not sell cool technology to the american public. This goes all the way back to 1987 when the japanese version of the Nintendo (Famicom) had some rudimentary online services.

A lot of technology utilizing the MD format has been marketed in Japan since it was created as a format in 1992. The Minidisc.org has a extensive list of such products.
The most interesting page has cool data devices

A really awesome system could be created using technology Sony already owns. They could start selling MD-Mavica's here and introduce a MD drive for the Playstation 2. You could then upload your photos into the PS2's Hard drive and send them to people or use them as part of a 3D game. This would also allow you to buy downloadable music from the web and record it to MD. And since the MD cameras can also play MD audio discs you would have a multipurpose device like the Sony DSC-MD1 or the Sharp MD-PS1.

Hey Sony are you listening!?! Americans Want these cool toys too!!

Boss:I'm not Indecisive; I'm flexible.
Employee: That would explain how your head got where it is.
-scott adams

Okay, since so many people are saying the same things, I thought I'd provide you all with some links talking about the various minidisc data solutions.

PC World - Is Sony's 140MB MiniDisc Drive the Next Betamax?
minidisc.org - Sony MDH-10
minidisc.org - Minidisc Data Product Index
Storewell (norway) - Selling the Sony MMD-140
minidisc.org - What was cool in minidisc (mostly audio)
newstimes.com - Computer News (November 28 1995)

It used to be a lot easier to scare up a lot more hits, but I guess some of that stuff has decayed over time. Amazingly enough, altavista has forgotten it :)

There was at least one other Sony-released Minidisc data drive, but I don't remember much about it. It's not like I have one. I have a Zip 100, because everyone else has one, even though they suck.

Okay, since so many people are saying the same things, I thought I'd provide you all with some links talking about the various minidisc data solutions.

PC World - Is Sony's 140MB MiniDisc Drive the Next Betamax?
minidisc.org - Sony MDH-10
minidisc.org - Minidisc Data Product Index
Storewell (norway) - Selling the Sony MMD-140
minidisc.org - What was cool in minidisc (mostly audio)
newstimes.com - Computer News (November 28 1995)

It used to be a lot easier to scare up a lot more hits, but I guess some of that stuff has decayed over time. Amazingly enough, altavista has forgotten it :)

There was at least one other Sony-released Minidisc data drive, but I don't remember much about it. It's not like I have one. I have a Zip 100, because everyone else has one, even though they suck.

Okay, since so many people are saying the same things, I thought I'd provide you all with some links talking about the various minidisc data solutions.

PC World - Is Sony's 140MB MiniDisc Drive the Next Betamax?
minidisc.org - Sony MDH-10
minidisc.org - Minidisc Data Product Index
Storewell (norway) - Selling the Sony MMD-140
minidisc.org - What was cool in minidisc (mostly audio)
newstimes.com - Computer News (November 28 1995)

It used to be a lot easier to scare up a lot more hits, but I guess some of that stuff has decayed over time. Amazingly enough, altavista has forgotten it :)

There was at least one other Sony-released Minidisc data drive, but I don't remember much about it. It's not like I have one. I have a Zip 100, because everyone else has one, even though they suck.