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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us...

Your hypothesis doesn't explain the available data

I know, I know, reusing the same data for everyone in this thread, but they all seem to be making the same argument that is strictly hypothetical, and doesn't account for real-world data.

None of these statistics take into account the rate of attempted suicides. That would certainly be a factor. Using a gun the first time you decide to try to kill yourself, you're much more likely to succeed because guns are so efficient. Taking pills or cutting yourself, or even driving your car into a tree, can land you in a hospital and the people around you realize you try to off yourself and you just might get the help you need to keep you from trying again.

"He said suicide rates tend to be higher in states with higher gun ownership — not because gun owners are more likely to suffer from depression, but because guns are faster and deadlier than other methods such as drugs, carbon monoxide or hanging. People are more likely to survive an attempted overdose or even a hanging than they are a gun-shot wound."

Also from the CDC: "There is one suicide for every 25 attempted suicides."

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/...

admittedly, it's retrospective (they are finding more marijuana metabolites in dead drivers than before), but Bayes' formula suggests validity of the inference. p(pot|dead)=p(dead|pot)*p(pot)/p(dead). legalization will definitely increase p(pot), and it might decrease p(dead|pot) in the long run as people and social norms adapt. but as you said, there are a lot of newbs out for now.

part of the problem is that marijuana intoxication is harder to screen for; this is a good thing in some ways (it's probably intrinsically safer, since they pass the field test at higher rates), but it makes deterrence harder.

Interesting information about horrifying human experimentation from WW2 committed by Germany.
Interesting information about horrifying human experimentation from WW2 committed by Japan.
Interesting information about horrifying human experimentation from WW2 committed by the USA. (Strangely missing from Wikipedia...)

Japan's actions during WW2 were abhorent. Unfortunately, they weren't alone in that respect.

Regarding the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory, well, that has nothing to do with how militaristic Japan actually was. There is significant evidence that it was a goal of many of those in power in the USA to lure Japan into war. To what extent the actions undertaken by these people actually helped bring about war is also irrelevant. The intent is well-documented. The US did want Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor in order to manufacture a pretext for ending isolationism and justifing US intervention. The conspiracy theory focuses on the extent to which various individuals acted to enable that, which is the only issue that's still in question. Perhaps you're right, and maybe nobody in the US actually acted to make sure the attack on Pearl Harbor would lead to our involvement in the war. However, this would still not have any bearing on the fact that the US did want Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor nonetheless.

Like this guy

Look, the IRS ITSELF (via the Commissioner) and the Inspector General BOTH are on-record as claiming these actions happened, they should not of happened, and they are, at the very least, the result of gross incompetence. Your trying to spin it as "nothing was wrong" simply goes against the statements of all the actual players in the game. Even President Obama states that "the misconduct ... is inexcusable".

But I'm glad to know you are much more knowledgeable about the IRS Scandal than the commissioner, the Senators, the Inspector General, the President, and all the other Government and political participants who have come out and plainly stated what happened was wrong.

No illegal actions, no scandal. Then I guess there was no reason for the IRS Commissioner to apologize for the targeting of Tea Party groups. Good to know! He's not just incompetent about data retention rules, but about the actions and culpability (or lack thereof) of his own organization! Great to know that he represents the quality of people the President appoints...

Pretty sure this is a real issue given that the IRS commissioner apologized for the targeting of Tea Party groups. If it's fake, why come out and apologize?

/. is really going downhill....

The media in general is going down hill. As much as Foxnews shills for the republicans, this is probably the biggest story of the year, yet it's missing from nearly every other news organization in the country.
http://www.nytimes.com/
http://www.latimes.com/
http://www.pbs.org/topics/news...
http://www.cbsnews.com/
http://www.nbcnews.com/
http://abcnews.go.com/

I checked every one of those and there's no mention of it.
Obama could get IMPEACHED over this. This is turning into a Watergate level scandal.
It could all be coincidental, but seriously? The IRS doesn't archive email? REALLY?

I.e. " Do you want to be part of russia, or not part of Ukraine".

Huh? The 1992 constitution of Crimea sees it as an autonomous republic of Ukraine. Maybe You, I or both of us are misunderstanding something here.

Regarding the Russian passports, I guess it has something to do with dual citizenships, i.e.:

[...] if [a Ukrainian] citizen acquired citizenship of (was naturalized by) another country, then in legal relations with Ukraine, the person is recognized as a citizen of Ukraine only. Thus, presently, according to the legislation of Ukraine dual citizenship is not prohibited, but also is not recognized [...]

It's also pretty much plausible and conceivable that the passport was used only for ID purposes and they had lists of eligible voters beforehand (at least that's the way it works in Germany: you just have to present a valid ID and be on the list).

And, re: "beating non russian looking voters", regardless of whether it actually happened (source?), there were not too many of those:

where they now form ~ 12% minority

(Crimean Tatars & ethnic groups in Crimea).

I'm not a jingoist. America (and any major power) is going to have black marks on it's record.

Agreed.
What I'm really trying to achieve here, is to cut through the thick fog of propaganda (from all sides) and get at the core of the issue (i.e. discrimination of a large part of the population by a (then) unelected government).
If I put myself in their shoes, I can totally understand the wish to distance themselves from a seemingly oppressive regime (not everyone welcomes their new overlords as we do here on /.), and being a semi-autonomous region (e.g. unlike Kosovo), they made use of their right to do so.

In addition, there were international observers present during the referendum.
And, as a last one, (internal Russian politics notwithstanding,) this is long but raises some interesting points: http://original.antiwar.com/ju...

Republicans already support immigration reform: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/la...

For some reason the media, the left and even republican leadership think immigration reform requires amnesty. You'll never get the law and order republican types to agree that those who broke the law should benefit where those who obeyed the law get stuck in south America. It's just not going to happen. Leave amnesty off the table and immigration reform would pass like grease lighting.

A rendition is when you arrest somebody in a second country and immediately turn them over to a third. It generally looks a lot like a kidnapping, but with legal paperwork done in the second country, because all arrests are basically legal kidnappings.

Probable cause, warrants, grand jury hearings, trial, lawyers, right to appeals

vs

No probable cause, illegal/secret evidence, no warrant, flown to a gulag or third world dictatorship, torture, no right to a lawyer much less an appeal, military kangaroo court under unlawful command influence, and then tortured with force-feeding when you start a hunger protest at your continued incarceration five years after your incacerators have cleared you for release.

Oh yeah, they're totally the same thing!

Even though about 80% of what Snowden "leaked" is hyperbole meant to stir up shit? After listening to the interview I'm convinced that a ton of this information is utter crap. "ooh I'm a spy" "ooh I was trained by the CIA" Does the NSA have a bulk collection program? Yes. Do the US Federal Courts screw us over on privacy issues? Yes. Do the FISA courts represent a black hole in the justice system? No more than the IRS' Tax Courts but both are invalid "justice" systems meant to screw over Americans. Was any of this known before Snowden? To a large extent no, but programs like ECHELON were known to be gathering bulk intelligence for years including spying on Americans using our allies. This has been known since the 90s folks, it's nothing new! All the NSA/spy community did was extend ECHELON into the Internet realm...

OK, I'm just going to stop right here now.

And the next time you want to try and make a point about this being "old hat", don't make yourself look like a total fucking idiot by blowing this off like it's no big deal and didn't affect billions of people.

Even though about 80% of what Snowden "leaked" is hyperbole meant to stir up shit? After listening to the interview I'm convinced that a ton of this information is utter crap. "ooh I'm a spy" "ooh I was trained by the CIA" Does the NSA have a bulk collection program? Yes. Do the US Federal Courts screw us over on privacy issues? Yes. Do the FISA courts represent a black hole in the justice system? No more than the IRS' Tax Courts but both are invalid "justice" systems meant to screw over Americans. Was any of this known before Snowden? To a large extent no, but programs like ECHELON were known to be gathering bulk intelligence for years including spying on Americans using our allies. This has been known since the 90s folks, it's nothing new! All the NSA/spy community did was extend ECHELON into the Internet realm. Cellphones and the patriot act did more to let the government in on your movements more than anything else, all in the name of "fighting terrorists."

With the progress in technology affecting our daily lives, are we that naieve to assume that the government isn't making the same kinds of leaps in tracking us when organizations like Google, Equifax, the US Postal Service even your TV with ToS like LG watching what you watch. Wake up and smell the cat shit folks, Snowden is the Inspector Clouseau of the espionage world.

What we need is a Constitutional Amendment enforcing the right to privacy in this country, also forcing an end to spying on US citizens and to secret/out of due process courts/legal systems.

Yes. Read it here.

It's a brief, general question about the legal force of executive orders. It does not object to any specific NSA activity. One email does not constitute "repeated" objections to anything.

The GP is advocating the Bush dichotomy; you're with us or against us. It is actually possible to praise Snowden as a "patriot" and call him on his lies as well.

What he did was great and monumental. He's also lying when he claims he waged some mighty struggle "through channels" within the NSA over their criminal activities. He didn't do that, and you know he didn't because if he had then the man that obsconded with gigabyes of NSA content would produce a "paper" trail showing he did it. He hasn't because he hasn't got one.

And that's fine. He doesn't need one. He just needs to stop lying about it.

It is impossible for me to believe that Snowden, the guy that ripped the crown jewels out of the NSA and handed it to the world, conducted some righteous internal campaign to fight NSA criminality and have nothing beyond one fig leaf email to prove it. It's not plausible.

My fanboi gland just doesn't have enough fluid to get me there. Sorry.

"I don't see why we couldn't 'have faith' in central city command and control centers which are paid for by ... taxpayers"

The ACA website was after all flawless.

Nope. It was an internet enabled baby monitor. http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/se...

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3663... He confessed. There was no doubt that he was the man. He did it. That the trial assumed that a little more than normal, but hardly "unfair". Had there been some defense, he'd have had an opportunity to present it. Which parts of the trail were unfair? The "report" isn't a trial.

The data across all test-takers (not just those who are admitted to college), tells a different story...

You know all Chinese don't really all look alike right? these http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us... are the people they are after.

Even more likely, it will be these people http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us...

Southern California gets wildfires in the spring and the fall due to the prevalence of strong Santa Ana winds (hot dry winds blowing from the deserts, over the mountains, toward the sea) and, given that the region is essentially an irrigated desert there's ALWAYS material ready and willing to burn. Any time a fire starts in the brush or in a canyon for ANY reason it will naturally become a massive wildfire unless fire fighters get it out in a hurry while it's still small

Some wild fires are started by power lines knocked-down by strong Santa Ana winds. Many are caused by illegal alien migrant workers who camp-out in some of the brush-filled canyons and use small fires to cook or keep warm on cold nights (one body has been found in the remains of such a campsite in the canyon where one of the current fires began). Some are started by morons throwing cigarette butts out of cars. Occasionally some hunter causes one. Many are either directly caused by federal land management activity or made worse by federal policies. And then, of course, one should never underestimate the destructive power of a pair of stupid teenage males who clearly have no valid reason to live.

Nowhere in that list was "global warming". In fact, there were some really bad fires in the 1960s that were only matched, NOT in the 70's or 80's or 90's but in 2012. When you consider that Southern California has been getting more and more-populated and developed decade-by-decade, it should NOT surprise if the number if fires detected (with more people around, and more arsonists present) and fought (with more property at risk) goes up - indeed the trendline for value of property should also go up (because more developed property, with higher value, is threatened when more land is developed and populated). Lining-up such fire data with climate data will easily provide a correlation-causality illusion. Of course, such false relationships are the sort of propaganda no self-respectingAGW alarmist can resist: When the "weather" seems severe it's proof of global warming, but when the "weather" is cold or fails to produce the predicted hurricanes and tornadoes, these uber-intellectual titans insist that "only an idiot" would conflate "weather" with "climate" - and they think the general public is too stupid to spot the completely dishonest and hypocritical "spin"...

Note for the future: When Katrina hit and Al Gore was running around pushing his book and film, he and his friends were pointing to a rise in hurricanes and tornadoes as evidence for AGW - but we are (and have been for severl years) experiencing a record low-level of such activity (and A.G. and his friends are notably quiet about these "weather" incidents). It is inevitable that hurricaine and tornado activity will rise in the future - when it does, look for Al and his compatriots to once again start using "weather" as "proof" of their "climate" theories. Given that we continue to build more-valuable things in more desireable (and riskier) locations, we can predict that the monetary damage caused by those future weather events will go up and up too, which will no-doubt make it into some dramatic (and intentionally misleading) graphs...

Those are both true, it just seems that (in my admittedly unsystematic sample) underground sites also tend to rot pretty quickly

Indeed. Ever heard about what happens when the 'time capsule' isn't sealed quite right?
This car wasn't in the greatest shape, and it's one of the better attempts.

Going underground massively increases expenses and potential troubles.

A very secure method of storage would be to place the waste in appropriate sealed containers that are designed to not corrode from the contents and provide sufficient shielding to be safe, then place them in a secure holding facility/warehouse. If the warehouse starts leaking and it's not worth fixing, move the contents to another warehouse.

That way the containers are easy to reach and move as necessary, are unlikely to be crushed, and the shelter is relatively cheap and easy to replace.

The telecommunications satellite that blowed up was the Astrium (Airbus) Express AM4R, which was to have replaced the Express AM4, which was lost (injected into the wrong orbit) in August 2011.

So they've done nearly the same thing before? Wow.

So are we *sure* the Russians are really launching these things and not just hiding them away for their use later?

The telecommunications satellite that blowed up was the Astrium (Airbus) Express AM4R, which was to have replaced the Express AM4, which was lost (injected into the wrong orbit) in August 2011.

...one-third of the human diet comes from insect-pollinated plants, and the honeybee is responsible for 80 percent of that pollination, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Even cattle, which feed on alfalfa, depend on bees. So if the collapse worsens, we could end up being "stuck with grains and water," said Kevin Hackett, the national program leader for USDA's bee and pollination program. "This is the biggest general threat to our food supply," Hackett said.

source

Just the other day I was walking to my car at my university parking lot, and I noticed some unidentified civilian vehicle with scanners mounted front and back slowly driving by all the parked cars.

Probably the repo men, scanning to find vehicles to reposess.
http://betaboston.com/news/201...

Of course, they share their info with the police, too.
http://www.theblaze.com/storie...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/ot...

Perfect for buying sex toys from Amazon!

Pizza is considered a vegetable in the US so nothing surprises me any more from a country that measures food quality in calories per dollar.

Who knows maybe on future the US Olympic organizers will petition for "Eating Cheet-ohs" to be admitted as an event.

It's on the seafloor now.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...

1) that CO2 would be poisonous?

Water in sufficient quantities is toxic. I don't even mean in the drowning sense, or the silly DiHydrogen Monoxide jokes, but if you have too much water, it can kill you.

Nitrogen also works this way. Nitrogen in air, normal pressure, is fine. Nitrogen under pressure can kill you.

Too much oxygen can make you space out.

There are a lot of things that follow this - if you think of normal doses of heat, or electricity, you're fine. If too much, you die. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to come up with examples.

life will find a way...

I love the movie but HATE that saying from Jurassic Park. (Snippet here.)

It does, unless it doesn't.

Concrete example? Let's just ask the dinosaurs... (They've had their time? But I though you said they could find a way.) Or, lets ask starfish about something odd that's currently attacking part of the population.. Something's out to get them; hopefully the starfish can mount defenses.

"What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" is a much better quote, I think -- but notice that living is one of two options. And in any case evolution doesn't care a whit about individuals.

Finally, a life that you better hope doesn't find a way: ebola. (Virus vs Life discussion, anyone?)

Perhaps part of the problem is that San Francisco is overloaded with homeless. So people become desensitized to the plight of the homeless there. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part. But I know that hospitals from other areas, and even other states bus their mentally ill to San Francisco

The number of people who have actually paid, out of these 7 million, remains a closely-guarded secret.

It's not a secret. It simply isn't a figure anyone has at hand. Generally you can pay for a policy up to 30 days late. The final enrollment date was the end of March. It's not the end of April yet. Even when it is, they will need to time to compile all the different figures from across the country.

Meanwhile:

More than 9 million Americans have gotten health insurance for the first time thanks to Obamacare, according to a new report from the Rand Corporation.

Most of the people who got new insurance didn’t buy it on the Obamacare exchanges but rather signed up with an employer, the survey found. Rand says that 8.2 million people have gained insurance from an employer since September — more than 7 million of them who had no health insurance before.

NBC

So that $95 maximum penalty this year, plus all the increased awareness of the availability and desirability of health insurance, has led to millions more signing up for health insurance. This is bad ... why?

millions are MUCH better off by not being denied health care for pre-existing conditions, being able to stay on their parent's healthcare plans, etc.

You sound very well-informed. Would you mind sharing with the rest of us the data source you used to determine that "millions" are better off? Even a rough count for each one of the categories you mention would be great as well. Thanks.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...

From a study done by Rand, over 9 million people have health insurance than did before.

Believe it or not, some parts of the US have reverted to for-pay fire protection. If you don't pay, your house burns down. Tennessee for example. The homeowner was furious that the fire department wouldn't save his home, but that's the gamble you take when you opt out of coverage.

This case doesn't really apply to medical care however, because if you show up in the sick or injured to an ER, doctors ethically have to treat you. They can't just throw you out on the street and let you die, even though that's what would be most "fair" when you opt out of insurance.

I am disconnecting anything which I have which still points to DropBox since I haven't used it in a while anyway.

And I am going to install their app on my parents' phones too now, whereas before I only had it my own.

You might as well appoint Alberto Gonzales as a Constitutional scholar and privacy expert.

I'll certainly take Mr. Gonzales over Mr. Holder, who, without being much of an expert in anything (not even manners or sense of decorum), presided over dramatic expansion of warrant-less surveillance.

funny you should mention that. not exactly the same but http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3951...

First link from Google:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com...

Th problem is that he's tried to play all sides of the issue, and I imagine this was pretty transparent to all but the thickest voters. The states' right approach would be pretty reasonable in my view, except for the complication in this specific instance that states are required to honor contracts from other states. Nonetheless, it is the stand that I think passes muster with the Constitution and common sense.

This sort of thing has happened before, and it will happen again. An even better example was when the MV Cougar Ace almost sank, and 4700 brand new Mazda cars hung at a 60 degree angle for several months. They never moved, and they were all in seemingly perfect condition.

Mazda chose to err on the side of caution, rather than risk a lawsuit. Or even worse, there was a very valid concern that they would become "Katrina Cars". A coat of paint, and they would be bundled up and sold in some other unsuspecting country. (On a side-note, the destruction process is really cool!.)

With waivers not being worth the paper they're printed on, it's simply not worth the risk of getting sued.

And finally, there's the "soft damage" to take into consideration? Remember the kid in preschool who "had cooties"? That kid KEPT those cooties, right up until graduation day in high school. Costco might never allow a single jar to hit their normal distribution system, but just the simple fact that the peanut butter even exists at all, is a risk that someone, somewhere, will say, "Whoa, Costco peanut butter might have salmonella."

Play "Telephone" with that for a while, and suddenly Costco can't pay someone to take a jar of peanut butter. This is actually a very safe, very beneficial tactic for Costco.

Now consumers can be absolutely guaranteed that they will never have to think about whether Costco peanut butter is safe.

And in retail, that's money in the bank.

>It would be nice to see if such laws of volume displacement could be understood by this country's fast food connoisseurs.

...or air crash experts:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...

Wow, some people just don't like to face up to reality. The article talks about warnings for decades, about a devastating mudslide in the area. The people didn't move. Now after the mudslide happened, are they moving now? No. They're staying and rebuilding!

They don't have the right to put their children in danger, as other posters have said.

If the federal government gives them my tax money in the form of Federal Highway Administration money and FEMA aid, I wish the government would warn the people that this is the last aid the govt. will give them, if they continue living there. (Yea, I know, fat chance.)

Every place has its dangers (earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.). But living on a hill that is prone to huge landslides is being irresponsible.

While I get your sarcasm, I feel inclined to point out that the US government, at least since the early 20th century, has had little to no reservation about doing horrific things to large populations of people, just to see what happens.

Purposefully infecting people with STDs and spraying Americans with radioactive material being two examples that stand out in my mind.

Well some do have a bit of truth to them...

The CIA did infect many Guatemalans with STDs without their knowledge or consent back in the 40's. They were trying to see if penicillin could prevent infections, not just cure it, so gave people the drug and disease and watched.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3945...

Really? Yellow cake uranium in iraq much?

Yes, there was a lot of yellow cake uranium in Iraq. It was removed after the invasion. Missing out on a little history?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/2554...

Some wealthy people may take the longer view than you indicate:

Born in the U.S.A.: Birth tourists get instant U.S. citizenship for their newborns

Her business also helps the women navigate the logistics of obtaining American birth certificates, passports, and Social Security numbers for their babies before they fly home to China.

She said that she hopes her newborn daughter, Emily, will return to the United States to attend high school and college. When Emily is 21, she could apply for her parents to become legal residents in America.

My oldest has a hexacore with 8Gb of RAM and a TB HDD and it only cost $350 shipped

Or $1,400 plus monitors plus OS plus furniture for four players.

you have a system that will play console games going back to the Atari 2600

Good luck dumping your authentic game cartridges to create the ROM files you need to play your console games. Last time I checked, Retrode was discontinued indefinitely.

and of course web, video, hell you can even get your work done on it

As for work or other non-gaming uses of a PC, console gaming families are apparently happy with just taking turns on the family PC, possibly adding a tablet or low-end laptop to the mix.

Had a friend that wanted to get into PC gaming but money was tight, found him a nice C2Q system [on a classified ad website] with 19 LCD and KM for just $130

I know some people who are afraid of buying things through classified advertising, given news reports of pickup encounters that have turned violent. And how much for furniture? A console uses your existing living room TV, while each gaming PC generally needs its own dedicated desk.

Now even Snowden himself is apparently calling her out.

Sorry it took so long to get back, work took me out of town for a bit.

If that is correct then all of the current outrage at Russias action in Crimea is equally superfluous...

No, you can still be outraged over the actions of another country.You do not have to accept anything you do not like. The Geneva convention has some provisions in it describing when it is legitimate to go to war but the UN doesn't give or rescind permission making it legal and illegal.

That is where you are wrong, the original 1991 Gulf War was a UN authorised action - see UNSC Resolution 678, which authorised member states

No, I'm not wrong. You simply got lost somewhere. A resolution autorizing an action or broad set of actions does not in any way constitute the UN giving orders. It is saying we will not object. Korea on the other hand was a UN action and they gave specific orders like take this area or launch this offensive. Granted, the specifics on how that happened was left to the generals in charge but the UN took a direct part in coordination and orchestrating it.

While the UN are not the government of the world, they uphold international treaties which member states have agreed to, which include the recognition of the sovereignty of member states and the right for a countries government to govern. Multiple independent western courts have affirmed that military action with the aim of regime change is illegal under international law.

Again, no. First, there are multiple bodies that deal with treaties. Some of them are under the UN control but most of them are not. I think WIPO has the most active treaties at the moment. But Russia as part of UN charter, has a permanent seat with Veto power at the UN. That means they cannot be booted (neither can the US, France, UK, or China) for any reason and they retain veto power over any actions the UN might try including security resolutions and sanctions. Now UN charter does say stuff in chapter 1 article 2 that makes an invasion for regime change illegal under UN charter but there are no penalties for it. Nothing is prescribed by charter or treaty concerning it. It's no different then your mom telling me to go to my room and me telling her to kiss off. The UN could vote on allowing other countries to address the problem or even take military action themselves like with Korea but with Russia's veto, nothing can be done.

But it gets even worse for your case. Any court can claim anything is illegal, it's a matter of jurisdiction and enforcement. I just held a kangaro court that said you posting was illegal and a violation under international law. Of course they also didn't say there was any penalties and even if there was, they do not have jurisdiction or the ability to enforce any of them. About all they can do is get outraged and have someone claim that outrage is superfluous.

And to make it even more obnoxious, Russia didn't invade Crimea, they went to the assistance of the sitting leader who was unconstitutionally and illegally deposed by a mob of people using force and the threat of force. So forget about what you think you know and watch the spin. Russia said the Viktor Yanukovych is still the only valid president and blames the uprising on influences from the west. "People are being persecuted for language and political reasons.". So not only is Russia helping the legitimate elected president who was unconstitutionally removed from under the threat of violence, they are the humanitarians in the mix. All of that seems to be completely in line with UN charter and international law and it seems to provide valid excuses for all the so called violations in the process. Interestingly, the talking heads in the west want to ingore and dismiss that without mention.