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They were working on emulating x86 on PPC but there were discussions about implementing the display technology in Quartz instead of X11 too.

Darwine has been underway for a while already http://darwine.opendarwin.org/ so they already have begun to tie it to the kernel .

WTF are you talking about? Darwine is user-space code for user-space applications. The kernel has nothing to do with it.

I expect a large influx of funding from Apple(perhaps already has occurred and they wanted it kept quiet) , Darwine has been underway for a while already http://darwine.opendarwin.org/ so they already have begun to tie it to the kernel .

anyone know if this project is affected by this? Is it moving along? Have they made it to alpha yet?
[opendarwin.org]

Since that was written, the world has moved on. Apple launched the WebKit open-source project as part of OpenDarwin. This means that WebKit bugs are now being tracked in bugzilla (in addition to Apple's internal bug tracking system), and WebKit, WebCore and JavaScriptCore have moved to a publicly accessible CVS server.

Since that was written, the world has moved on. Apple launched the WebKit open-source project as part of OpenDarwin. This means that WebKit bugs are now being tracked in bugzilla (in addition to Apple's internal bug tracking system), and WebKit, WebCore and JavaScriptCore have moved to a publicly accessible CVS server.

Since that was written, the world has moved on. Apple launched the WebKit open-source project as part of OpenDarwin. This means that WebKit bugs are now being tracked in bugzilla (in addition to Apple's internal bug tracking system), and WebKit, WebCore and JavaScriptCore have moved to a publicly accessible CVS server.

take the code developed by thousands of programmers over 15 years, make it proprietary, and contribute nothing back.

First of all, the "open sourced code" that had been developed for over 15 years is STILL going to be available and developed by the individuals who support the "open source" cause. It does not just disappear. The only thing that would be proprietary is the changes and efforts the individual or company puts into above and beyond the original code base. And as someone else brought up, even in the situation of MacOSX, they have large portions of their source code available for people to look at and develop on their own.

Secondly, if the developers of the code believe in their code and their roadmap, why should they care if someone forks their code and goes off and does something else with it that ends up contributing to the computer industry? The open source developer is donating their time for a cause to make a difference, money isn't usually a factor for this person. They can continue coding their BSD licensed software all they want, they can continue doing whatever it is that drives them, and others can take their code and try to make something proprietary and make a business model out of the code because the original developer doesn't want to do that, or he would have. And lots of times the original developers are seeked out by the company who forked the code to see if they want a job. The developer can decline the offer. The open source BSD licensed developer is still in control of their original code base and where it goes and everything else.

I could go on and on, but the main point is with the BSD license developers maintain control of their code base and their project for as long as they want. It allows for when a developer throws in the towel and is tired of maintaining a project, someone else can come in and start maintaining it and try to make a business model of the software and offer the developer a job or better yet back the project to continue development. And the last point, in the end, companies contribute most of the code back into some sort of public view such as http://opendarwin.org/

We can't take the code developed by thousands of programmers over 15 years, make it proprietary, and contribute nothing back.

How about taking code developed by thousands of programmers over 25 years, use it as the base of a proprietary operating system, and going out of your way to contribute back to the open source community even where you're not obliged to do so but the GPL?

Nah, nobody would do that.

It's a good article, but it could be summarised in three lines:
1) Install Apple's X server from your OS X CD

No, RTFA. I ran KDE on Apple's X server, but the article recommends installing xfree86 using fink. (And probably should recommend `fink install xorg` to get X11 R6.8 instead of xfree86.)

The really exciting project is native KDE using Qt/Mac instead of Qt on X11. But Ranger Rick's progress on that has stalled while he does a great job maintaining KDE on X11 and a truckload of other projects for Fink.

I run FreeBSD 5.2 on a four-way Xeon box at work and thank Apple every day. If it weren't for the Mach micokernel from Apple we wouldn't be able to do these nice things with FreeBSD now or probably ever.

Apple's pattern is to sync every major Mac OS X release with the latest major FreeBSD release.

• Runs NATIVELY in OSX (NO X11 needed)
• Integrates with other OSX programs (drag&drop, consistent look &feel)

• Having to read several How-to's, like this one
• Having to install Fink
• Having to use X11
• Lack of integration between KDE applications and the others

This is not about running KDE on OS X via X11. This is about running KDE natively on OS X. It is a freaking big deal.

http://kde.opendarwin.org/

How about Camino?

Safari does have memory leaks, but according to David Hyatt's blog, they'll be fixed in an upcoming version.

There is a OS X/Darwin port of wine called Darwine. For PPC it's using QEMU to do the x86 emulation. It's not usuable yet, and since it's based on Wine I doubt it will ever be useable.

You might give Darwine a try. However, if you already use VirtualPC, you may not have any great motivation to change now...until the next $400 [VirtualPC w/ Win XP Pro] requirement to upgrade.

So what, if the vast majority of websites don't bother styling them? Form controls can default to Aqua without compromising the spec. In other words, there's no need for controls to be ugly if ugliness isn't specified in the HTML, and even then, you can handle it the elegant and tasteful way:

Some controls are going to naturally discard the Aqua look if you "fall off the cliff" by customizing the control to the point where the Aqua look can no longer be maintained, e.g., if you set the border and background of a button. Others, like checkbox, are going to refuse to "fall off the cliff" unless you explicitly turn off the -khtml-appearance property. The choice of when to disable the Aqua look is going to be chosen to match other browsers (and Internet Explorer in particular).

Naturally, that's how WebKit behaves. Ugliness has no place on the Mac desktop, even on the web.

Instead of using images for your rounded corners, why not adopt part of css3 early and use the border-radius [webkit] property? It's only supported in safari so far but once the rest of the browsers adopt this it will shave a lot of images off the site, therefor, speeding it up a bit. Plus they look so damn good!

Apple's Keychain Access is pretty nice to store and manage passwords, secure notes, and certificates.
I use it very often to store notes, beats Stickies imho and easier to backup as well :)

It's possible to create a Shared Keychain as well. Then all users on the machine can access that keychain if they know its password.

I think most part of the Keychain Access is Opensource (correct me if i'm wrong!):
http://darwinsource.opendarwin.org/10.4/libsecurit y_keychain-78/lib/

So any takers on making keychains crossplatform? (I hope there are ;)

Because, unbeknownced to the world, Microsoft is using a BSD kernel in Vista.

You mean Darwin?

You could be right. Vista already does look like a badly themed OSX....

Of course, the best possible bootloader is something like Open Firmware, found on Sun and other commerical Unix workstatsions, as well as PowerPC Macs. It has filesystem support, lets you load things via TFTP, supports net booting, lets you browse the full device tree, etc. It even gives you a complete stack-based programming enviroment called Forth, so you can make custom menus and load them on any machine on a LAN via the aforementioned TFTP.

Best part is, it's always there, since it's built into the hardware. x86 folk don't know what they are missing...

Apple doesn't do open source? Don't tell the Open Darwin folks, or the KHTML folks, or.... No, they don't produce ONLY OSS software, but they definately give back to the community. Oh yeah... they also aren't convicted anti-competative monopolists. Got any more examples? IBM? They're on here weekly for giving code to the OSS movement. SCO? We only bash them too. Most of us don't hate Microsoft because they don't write OSS code... we hate them because they're anti-competative and do illegal and immoral things.

Safari supports CSS 3 backgrounds which is great for getting rid of superfluous <div> elements. Great example.

Oh, and of course, Safari passes the Acid2 test, where Gecko does not.

from: http://www.brucebeh.com/installosx86.txt

THIRD SOLUTION MAKING A BOOTABLE DVD (WINDOWS)

1. Convert .dmg to .iso.... How to convert from .dmg to .iso:

Windows
1. Install UltraISO (you can get it here: http://www.ezbsystems.com/ultraiso/)
2. Now run UltraISO Start->Programs->UltraISO->UltraISO
4. After that go to Tools->Convert
5. Input Marklar-Tiger.dmg
6. Output your file to where you want it. Make sure Standard ISO is selected.
7. Click Convert and now your done.

2. Patch the ISO with this:
blex0rs sse3 patch: SSE3Patcher.exe or SSE3Patcher.zip
http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/SSE3Patc her.exe
OR
http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/SSE3Patc her.zip

3. Download Darwin Install iso
http://www.opendarwin.org/downloads/8.0.1/darwinx8 6-801.iso.gz
4. Open the file through WinRAR
5. Browse to System/Library/ in the iso.
6. Drag the extensions folder out into a temporary folder in Windows. Remember where you placed this for later.
7. Now open up the Mac OS x86 install dvd iso in TransMac (http://www.asy.com/sharetm.htm)
8. Browse to System/Library/Extensions in Transmac.
9. Delete IOATAFamily.kext from the Tiger ISO in Transmac.
10. Find the temporary folder with the extensions folder from earlier (from Darwin) in and browse into it.
11. Drag all the folders (first entry should be called ACard62xxM.kext) from the top section ("PC drive") of TransMac into the bottem section ("Mac drive"). Most of these folders are probably not neccessary, until we have narrowed them down all of them will be copied.
12. REMEMBER TO SELECT NO when it asks to replace a file.
13. Now add the folowing files to the ISO:
CoreGraphics - http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/CoreGrap hics.tgz /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.fra mework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framewor k/Versions/A/
oah750d - http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/05080721 0250_oah750d-patched.zip /usr/libexec/oah/
DS.Bundle - http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/DS.bundl e.tgz
System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/NetInfo.framework /Versions/A/Resources/lookupd/Agents
IOHDIXController.kext - http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/IOHDIXCo ntroller.kext.tgz /system/library/extensions
14. Close Transmac and burn!
CREDIT GOES TO: MacIntelGuy

http://webkit.opendarwin.org/

Compiling WebKit takes little to no effort at all. After the initial checkout from CVS, all you have to do is type two commands to update and build your source. See http://webkit.opendarwin.org/building/checkout.htm l for more information

Ahem. Shipping? No. Download it and use it right now? Yes.

What, people already forgot the fracas set off when Dave Hyatt landed complete Acid2 rendering in the WebCore CVS (which you CAN download and use - quite easily I might add)?

I highly doubt there is no kernel-level code in OS-X for graphics, and it is certainly proprietary right now.

You're confusing "privileged mode" AKA "kernel mode" with "in the kernel". Mach isn't a real microkernel, but it does support the ability to run software in privileged mode without it being "linked in the kernel".

Of course it may not be possible to build a credible microkernel-style design based on Linux, given Linus opinions of microkernel operating systems and the hardcore traditionalism of Linux' design... which would be a bigger problem for Apple than the GPL.

MS dilikes the GPL, but has actually come out and said they like BSD on more than one occasion.

Microsoft says lots of stuff, but it's their actions that count. And their only package that uses a significant amount of real open-source software uses both BSD and GPL components.

In the end we'll get Linux with all the best features from AIX, HPUX, Irix.

I doubt it. SGI is pretty much moribund and is selling the IP they have left to the highest bidder, even when that's Microsoft. There's not much in HPUX that's worth saving. A whole lot of code in AIX is shared with IBM's very profitable mainframe and mini lines.

IBM and SGI have however released entire file systems which were formerly proprietary.

Like HFS+?

One great operating system is better than four good ones, IMO.

One operating system can't possibly fill all the niches. Linux is tied to a kernel design that works well for a certain class of problems, but it depends on Linus for continued development and Linus antipathy towards non-traditional kernels is legendary.

In fact, everything I can think of that they did release started out as open source.

Have you looked at the the actual code? Or are you just going by "what you heard"?

So while you were busy with your "Apple is good" tirade in response to something I didn't say, you are showing that you agree with me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. My point is that the actions of the company using open source code are more important than the license you use. Microsoft and Apple are both using both GPL and BSDL code. The GPL hasn't led to Microsoft releasing anything, their own open source is strictly Windows-only. And Apple's released a flood of stuff whether it started out as BSDL, GPL, or they created it themselves.

I highly doubt there is no kernel-level code in OS-X for graphics, and it is certainly proprietary right now.

You're confusing "privileged mode" AKA "kernel mode" with "in the kernel". Mach isn't a real microkernel, but it does support the ability to run software in privileged mode without it being "linked in the kernel".

Of course it may not be possible to build a credible microkernel-style design based on Linux, given Linus opinions of microkernel operating systems and the hardcore traditionalism of Linux' design... which would be a bigger problem for Apple than the GPL.

MS dilikes the GPL, but has actually come out and said they like BSD on more than one occasion.

Microsoft says lots of stuff, but it's their actions that count. And their only package that uses a significant amount of real open-source software uses both BSD and GPL components.

In the end we'll get Linux with all the best features from AIX, HPUX, Irix.

I doubt it. SGI is pretty much moribund and is selling the IP they have left to the highest bidder, even when that's Microsoft. There's not much in HPUX that's worth saving. A whole lot of code in AIX is shared with IBM's very profitable mainframe and mini lines.

IBM and SGI have however released entire file systems which were formerly proprietary.

Like HFS+?

One great operating system is better than four good ones, IMO.

One operating system can't possibly fill all the niches. Linux is tied to a kernel design that works well for a certain class of problems, but it depends on Linus for continued development and Linus antipathy towards non-traditional kernels is legendary.

In fact, everything I can think of that they did release started out as open source.

Have you looked at the the actual code? Or are you just going by "what you heard"?

So while you were busy with your "Apple is good" tirade in response to something I didn't say, you are showing that you agree with me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. My point is that the actions of the company using open source code are more important than the license you use. Microsoft and Apple are both using both GPL and BSDL code. The GPL hasn't led to Microsoft releasing anything, their own open source is strictly Windows-only. And Apple's released a flood of stuff whether it started out as BSDL, GPL, or they created it themselves.

Opera has native SVG now. Mozilla has it in the latest nightly builds. Safari will also have it soon, courtesy of the KSVG project for Konqueror/KDE.

IE? Who cares? If Microsoft doesn't follow suit, it's one more nail in their shiteware's coffin.

>OS-X has indeed got a mach kernel,

Exactly my point; the core part of the OS isn't BSD, it's mach. Various userland toys aren't relevent given the fact that the kernel is vastly different from every other BSD out there (right down to being a microkernel as opposed a monolithic one).

And, unless you buy the GNU/Linux argument, calling this MACH-based OS "BSD" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Particularly since a good deal of what's used to build Darwin is not BSD, but GNU (gcc, etc).

Oh, and this is my preferred site for obtaining Darwin, kthxby.

>would Dashboard have existed in the form it does, using the
>underlying technologies it does, trying to serve the purpose it
>does and look how it does if Konfabulator never had existed ?

Meanwhile, other posters are complaining that Dashboard *doesn't* copy Konfabulator and requires (barring developer mode) looking at all of them at once.

Yes, Dashboard would have existed without Konfabulator. Dashboard is based on WebKit. WebKit is part of OS X. WebKit is what powers Safari and Mail's HTML rendering (and probably most other third-party HTML renderers at this point).

http://webkit.opendarwin.org/

Dashboard came at the same time that Automator did; Apple appears to be trying to ensure that their technologies are easy to automate and script into small, useful apps. After AppleScript, Automator, and the various scripting languages on the command line, it made perfect sense to build a javascript/HTML development tool based on WebKit.

I suspect that the only thing that would have changed if Konfabulator did not exist is that Apple would not have called their widgets "gadgets" for a few days.

Jerry

It only passes if you use a nightly. For those that aren't aware, you can build your own or download Safari on Acid

http://www.opendarwin.org/mailman/listinfo/

http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/

Though I haven't tried it myself, it's a port of Wine to Darwin originally targetted for PPC macs using QEMU for the x86 emulation. They're also working on modifying Wine to use quartz instead of X11 for the user interface calls to make it more Mac-friendly.

It seems to be in the very early stages right now. For example, they seem to be able to run PPC compiled windows apps under darwine on the Mac, but don't have QEMU or the quartz interface working yet. As they say on their page, it'll be much easier to get this running on a x86 Mac.

What does CrossOver actually offer that Wine doesn't? I'm finding it hard to find some cold data. FWIW, the Darwine guys have been working on Wine for MacOS X for quite some time now, and the whole intel chip thing will undoubtably make their job easier.

In terms of competition, there's KOffice for MacOS X I kept my eyes on, see http://kde.opendarwin.org/. Still pre-alpha however.

I use and love iWorks. Keynote is simply *great*. But it is not free (forget open source). And iWorks, for the moment, lacks a spreedsheet, which OOO doesn't. Thanks to OOO and NeoOfficeJ developpers! :-)

using Linux on your servers for OS X client networks just makes sense.

and suddenly without too much fanfare, Wine becomes a do-able port. Look out Bill! Imagine being able to buy an OSX box and run Windows apps on it.

Already being worked on, for either archetecture.

http://darwine.opendarwin.org/

Not true. OpenDarwin images build from source under an OpenDarwin image, with only free tools.

Someone has managed to crack Apple's DRM scheme for their low level OS functionality, there is a strong belief that the user space libraries will be cracked soon too. The cracked version is here!

Here is an email from Roland Geisler at Nokia that was posted on the Safari Web Kit mailing list (more info at http://webkit.opendarwin.org/contact.html)

From: roland geisler
Subject: [webkit-dev] Greetings from the Series 60 mobile browser team at Nokia
Date: June 13, 2005 2:52:33 PM PDT

RE: Recent press release: http://press.nokia.com/PR/200506/998214_5.html

Hi,

I'm heading marketing and strategy at Nokia for Series 60's new mobile browser that will be built upon WebCore/KHTML and JavaScriptCore/KJS. I am writing you this email to thank you for having built the Konqueror and Safari browser with the two components WebCore/KHTML and JavaScriptCore/KJS. I would like to introduce myself and some members from our core development team, and explain why we at Nokia have selected your code base for our future Series 60 mobile browser. I also hope that this will start a mutual dialogue among us that will support all of our projects in the future.

Not all of you might be familiar with Series 60. Series 60 is a smart phone software platform developed by Nokia, which enables feature rich applications on mobile devices. Series 60 is based on the Symbian OS and is written in C++. More information can be found from http://www.forum.nokia.com/
and http://www.series60.com/.

I copied some of our core development team members on this email so you have their names and contact information. Antti Koivisto, whom you might know already, is one of the co-authors of KHTML and has been working for Nokia Research Center for the past few years and recently joined our mobile browser development team in Boston. David Carson and Deepika Chauhan are two of the original developers of the Nokia mobile browser. Zalan Bujtas, Prabhakar Marnadi, Yongjun Zhang and Sachin Padma have been working with mobile browsers for some years at Nokia in Helsinki and Boston. Keith Hollis has several years experience working with mobile browsers and has recently joined our team in Boston, earlier he was the principal person leading the port of the Opera web browser to the Symbian OS at Opera Software. Guido Grassel, Kimmo Kinnunen and Andrei Popescu are working at our Nokia Research Center in Helsinki (http://www.nokia.com/research/) where we have built the GTK port of Apple's WebCore that we released last year - http://gtk-webcore.sourceforge.net/.

The high performance, low memory consumption and small code footprint of KHTML and KJS make these components ideal for resource-constrained mobile devices. Clean architecture and good design create a good base for future development of mobile features. In addition, Web compliance was another important criteria for us. Congratulations to the KDE Konqueror developer team for building such a great browser.

Big thanks at this point also go to the Apple Safari team that has tremendously improved KHTML and KJS in many areas, in particular in Web compliance and performance. WebCore and JavaScriptCore also offer a cleaner separation to the underlying operating system. For these reasons we at Nokia chose WebCore and JavaScriptCore as the code base for our Series 60 mobile browser.

Our plan is that the new Series 60 mobile browser will be available as a standard Series 60 application during the first half of 2006.

We at Nokia are excited to use WebCore/KHTML and JavaScriptCore/KJS for our future Series 60 mobile browser. I hope that we can start a dialogue with your community and the Apple Safari team on how to "mobilize" WebCore/KHTML and JavaScriptCore/KJS to create the best Web browser based on open-source components for mobile devices.

Best regards,

Roland Geisler
Head of Marketing & Strategy, Series 60 Browser
Nok

What's this?
http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php? form_cat=309

or this? http://freshmeat.net/browse/839/ What about http://fink.sourceforge.net/ or http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/ or http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/?

Finally this http://www.apple.com/opensource/.

RMS is interested in his personal crusade, not freedom. Freedom must not have artificial limits.

I wish you had told that to Steve in 1992. He should have waited before he ditched hardware.

I wonder how your plan would work out. Things were different in 1992. They were using BSD (neither Free nor Open) and could not support all the vanilla box out there. The NeXT brochure came with the list of hardware (x86 machines) they supported, and the list was short.

Now in 2006, Darwin is an open source and has a potential to support more hardware. According to this link, it seems to support quite a few hardware.

Back in 1992, Steve had to fight against many more vendors than today, including Microsoft and Apple. Things are different now. Microsoft may not be so eager to destroy the enemy, fearing another anti-trust lawsuit. Apple is gone (or not?), etc.

But I still wonder if that's in Steve's mind: to become a software company.

As one user mentioned, VersionTracker is kind of the Freshmeat of Mac OS X. So is Macupdate.

Also, while Fink is pain at times (partly because of its Linux roots, and OS X is more BSDish), Mac OS X has DarwinPorts, which actually works pretty well.

Some AMD systems already run the OS X kernel:

http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/
Select Systems, AMD, working

Darwin, the kernel of OS X, does run on AMD machines. Probably just a matter of driver support for the pretty interface.

http://www.opendarwin.org/hardware/
Select Systems, AMD, Working and see if that makes you 'much happier'

Hmm, I'm less than impressed with Apple's standards support: DOM