Slashdot Mirror

This is not meant as a Troll. If you are a Windows user, checkout the latest beta from Opera, it rocks. Choice of Single/Multiple document interface,new skins, and mouse gestures too! Still retains fastest browser credits. Give it a try.

Well lets look at the system requirements, which as we all know are very conservative

Windows
* Intel Pentium-class 233 MHz (or faster)
* 64 MB RAM
* 26 MB of free hard disk space

Linux
* Intel Pentium-class 233 MHz (or faster)
* 64 MB of RAM
* 26 MB of free hard disk space

Since you probably can't upgrade your processor on your board maybe you should try and bump your RAM to 128MB or so? That would definitely help out. Otherwise I recommend you give Opera a shot. It's right up your alley and it works on Linux and Windows :)

JOhn

For got IE versus Netscape? Personally I like netscape better, but better than both is Opera. Small, fast, and free! It has never, in my experience, crashed. This is a good thing.

A quick check of the HTML indicates that CSS positioning was used; Nutscrape...doesn't know how to implement CSS positioning. Internet Explorer works properly; Mozilla and Opera should work too

So, you're in agreement: It was a braindead web design. "Use my browser or don't view my webpage" is braindead web design. Period.

It's worth noting that a properly-designed page should render reasonably well in any browser, to the limit of the browser's capabilities. Try calling up the page given here in Lynx, for instance; I wouldn't be surprised if it renders properly in Lynx (sans images, of course).

If your browser doesn't render pages properly, you might want to consider upgrading to a better browser, one that properly implements the published standards.

What I've seen earlier on Linux PDAs is often something like 'Look, I can run xclock on this!'. People tend to forget that a PDA's interface is something entirely different than on a desktop.

Refreshing then, to see the well thought-out Qt/Embedded GUI on this one. And one of the images even shows an Opera icon! I've used Opera a long time on my Psion 5mx, and it blindingly fast (this nice PDA only has a 36 MHz processor). The recent announcement of Opera on Sharp's Linux PDA Zaurus is another plus point for Opera. Way to go!

IE pathetic with XHTML

I really don't know if Netscape is going to be salvaged as a browser, even if AOL uses it instead of IE for their service. Netscape had its loyal followers in the 2/3 and even 4.0 days. But with 6 being released over a year late, not to mention the overall slow speed & bugginess of the 6.0 final, and the HUGE push for AOL-EVERYTHING in it now, even the most hardcore Netscape fans I know dropped it. IMHO, AOL killed it, and I don't think they can bring it back now.

Hell, 6.x is supposed to be semi-up-to-date, and it still supports far less than Opera 5, which is rapidly becoming my favorite browser. Quick, stable, and supports a hell of a lot. Netscape 6 however remains buggy, bloated, and full of stuff that I just don't WANT (like the AOL icons everywhere!!), but doesn't give you an option to not put that crap everywhere.

I simply don't want to install a product that shoves icons all over my system without asking.

Heh. For a kick, try opening this XHTML page in MSIE. Oh, it's a perfectly valid page: heck, it even encourages you to go validate it.

Displays perfectly on Opera, of course. How's it look in Mozilla?

It will do the trick when bloatware falls short.

Somewhat interresting reading...

[opera.com]

Direct from the opera.comwebsite:

XHTML 1.0
extensible HyperText Markup Language, XHTML 1.0, claims to be the bridge between
the old Internet, based on HTML, and the new one, which will be based
on XML, as detailed by the W3C's XHTML 1.0 specification's working group.
Opera 5.0 has full support of XHTML 1.0, for your viewing pleasure!

• It's small: only a 1.9meg download (7 meg if you want java support) and that's the entire download (not just some installer that downloads the rest)
  
• It runs on a 486
  
• Opens fast
  
• It renders HTML faster than both IE and mozilla
  
• It was the first of the above mentioned to support mouse gestures for faster navigation
  
• It has a superior window interface
  
• It's available on Linux, BeOS, Mac, OS/2, QNX, and EPOC as well as Windows (though developement has not reached as long as the windows edition)
  

I can only speak about Mozilla so here's my case...

How about tabbed windows and configurable gesture control (thanks Opera!) none of which IE has! Gesture control just rocks so much! After using gesture controls it becomes so natural that I get frustrated when I subconsciously try using gestures in other apps where it's not supported. ;-) Add in better adherence to standards (esp compared to IE6), a better security model, far greater flexibility/configurability, identical (to this user on my boxen) browsing speeds/start up times (if you use quicklaunch) and you have a combination that wipes the floor with IE. Really about the only reason I can see to keep using IE6 are crappy webmasters who code pages IE only.

Besides having those mouse gestures, Opera also uses most of the keys on your keyboard as single key shortcuts. See the list of shortcuts.

You can view the list here. This is for Windows version and I was using Opera v5.12. This is sweet! I can't wait to use this with Mozilla and Galeon. :)

Which, of course, is what opera does.

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

OPERA is the browser of choice for dead Russian submarine commanders.

Shouldn't you use the same browser as these ex-communists?

How can you say no, except if the question was: "Do you not want to use OPERA?"

GET OPERA HERE!

4 out of 5 trolls agree that OPERA is the best browser out there.

With OPERA being on almost every platform, why not get it RIGHT NOW!?!?

GET OPERA HERE!

Please respond to this post and say how great OPERA is.

THANK YOU!

Now Mac users will never be able to have Mozilla fit in with the rest of their computer. Some Mac users will probably go with IE just for this reason.

and some mac users will probably go with OmniWeb [www.omnigroup.com], and some mac users will probably go with Opera [www.opera.com], or other web browsers.

Mozilla isn't the only alternative to IE, thank god.

-steve

You can get Nimda about seven different ways and 6 of them have nothing to do with running a web server. Just browsing an infected site, something beyond your control, with IE 5.5 sp1 or less was enough.

This is true, of course. This worm spreads in a number of ways, all of which exploit security flaws in Microsoft software:

• It can directly attack your computer if you are running Microsoft Internet Information Server (IIS)
  • Consider using Apache instead
• It can attack as a mail attachment if you are using Microsoft Outlook as a mail client
  • Consider using Pegasus instead
  • Consider using Netscape 6 instead
  • Consider using KMail (on UNIX/Linux) instead.
• It can attack as an executable attachment to a Web page if you browse with Microsoft Internet Explorer
  • Consider using Opera instead.
  • Consider using Mozilla instead.
  • Consider using Netscape 6 instead.
  • Consider using Konqueror (on UNIX/Linux) instead.

Notice a pattern there? Yes, that's right. If you don't run Microsoft, you can't get Nimda. Or Code Red, or Code Red II, or SirCam, or Melissa, or...

This isn't about being a Linux bigot. You can't get Nimda on MacOS. You can't get it on Solaris. You can't get in on OS/400, or AIX, or an Amiga, or on *BSD. This isn't a matter of Linux being good. Linux is just ordinary, like any other half-competent operating system.

This is a matter of Microsoft being incompetent. Hopelessly, culpably, irredeemably incompetent.

Well, my browser includes a 'search google' (or other search engines, as configured) field in its taskbar. So there :OQ

I used to use Eudora (a *very* nice and very capable email client) back when I was using Windows. The only downfall is that it is commercial software that you must pay for. I'd say if I were still using Windows, I would buy Eudora.

Since the release of version 5.0 -- it's now at version 5.1 -- Eudora has been "free" in same same sense that Opera is now "free": embedded banner ads.

To be fair, Eudora 5.x has three modes of operation: light, sponsored, and paid. Feel free to read up on them at your leisure... might as well do a little reading on its feature set as well.

Why would you call the best browser out there a fiasco?

No, this is the best browser.

He's right. Opera is faster. Both IE and Opera are buggy and quirky, however.

Opera crashes when there are more than perhaps 10 windows open. (I know how difficult it is to believe that a Microsoft product could be quirky.)

Opening a new window in Opera is easier and uses less resources. Opera has gesture control: Go back to a previous page by waving the mouse left. When you return to Opera after exiting, it can load all your pages back to where they were before exiting. Opera saves time, lots of it.

Try Opera for Linux. The version with ads is free.

Other versions: BeOS | EPOC | Solaris | Mac | OS/2 | QNX | Windows

• Opera
• Konqueror
• Mozilla
• Galeon
• Skipstone
• Netscape

The article did not review a number of browsers. Here are a some more that you may want to try:

• Arena
• Amaya
• Chimera
• MMM
• Emacs/W3
• Lynx (text based)
• Links (text based)
• Debris (text based)
• w3m (text based)
• Libwww (text/line based)
• HowJava
• Express
• Armadillo (was Gzilla)
• Mnemonic
• Kde (file manager with builtin browser)
• mMosaic
• QtMozilla
• QWeb
• Mosaic
• Arachne
• Beest
• Beonex
• BrowseX
• Grail
• Dillo
• NetRaider

And how the disclaimers: The list above by no means complete. The browers above were listed in j-random order. Some browsers are in early alpha stage, some in Beta and others are in full release. Some of the browsers may suck, some are OK and some are good. Your mileage may vary. Sorry If I left out your favorite browser. IE was left off the list for obvious reasons. Good while supply lasts or until Bill Gates takes over. I'm not a member of the FCIA. Void where cast as (void).

It seems kind of pointless to post this here, you'd have luck better going here.

... why people seem to think that IE and Netscape are the only choices for a decent browser out there when there's such wonderful browsers like Opera out there (not to mention Konqueror--but I digress). It's small (compared to MS and NS bloatware), fast, doesn't spy on you, and it's free (as in adware--oh well, three out of four ain't bad!). The ability to turn off images with the click of a button (or a single keystroke) does wonders for surfing sites with annoying graphics! Give it a whirl--you won't be sorry!

You can ditch MS and their crapware. All it takes it a little digging!

-- Shamus

Bleah!

Try Opera. You won't regret it. Runs beautifully, and doesn't cause the entire OS to crash on the (extremely rare, btw) occasions that it crashes.

I've been using Opera for the past few days, and it seems pretty good. More stable than either IE or NS on W98, and it seems to support just about everything I've run into.

This makes linux based browsing more appealing.

Of course, if things get really desparate (like some nut codes an IE-only website I want to see), I can fire up Opera and tell it to lie to IIS... the beauty of Linux is that there are SO MANY browsers out there, each good at something. Galeon. Mozilla. Konqueror. Amaya. Opera. Links. Lynx. (they're different! Links handles tables in text. Lynx doesn't.) What? I forgot Nutscrape? Forget them. Don't need'em. If I'm going to run commercial software, it's going to be reallly good commercial software. Like Opera.

But I have to agree with the general sentiment. No flash, no Java (outside of a game), minimal JavaScript (Yahoo's address book is a good example of JavaScript done right), nothing else that's not cross-platform (and therefore subject to the Unix permission paradigm), no cookies, damn few ads (I let OSDN's go thru, because they're INTERESTING), just content. If you're going to insist on anything more than JavaScript, I'll take my business elsewhere. Seeya. Wouldn't wanna BE ya.

But no, I run Linux because a long time ago I got tired of worrying about scanning for viruses and blocking ActiveX controls and malicious VBScript and Blue Screens of Death and a whole host of other problems that I just don't have anymore. Eight browsers, five word processors, four IM clients, three games of Solitaire, two skinnable GUI's, and a groupware in beta test. And every last bit of it free at least as in beer. Now, somebody explain to my wife, who threw Windows off her box in 1997 because it ate the registry twice in as many weeks and never regretted it, why she needs to pay for software ever again.

Linux. Not because it's cool or l33+ or trendy (it's surely not that.... yet), but because it makes sense. Because it Doesn't Suck.

PNGs don't support animation

Other than banners, what GIF images on popular web sites are animated?

the compression algorithm it uses requires more code (i.e. bigger downloads for its encoder/decoders)

Irrelevant. Opera is small (about 2 MB) and handles PNG. Commercial paint programs such as Photoshop come on CD-ROM; 50 KB for the PNG codec is peanuts compared to the 650 MB CD that the rest of the operating system or paint program comes on or even the 10 MB download of GIMP for Windows. Besides, properly optimized binary code is a very small part of a web browser compared to pre-initialized data such as chrome, skins, themes, or whatever you call appearances.

Sure there's MNG, but it's more of a half-assed Flash implementation than an animated GIF replacement.

MNG has a low-complexity subset with about the same functionality as multiple-image GIF (combine frames, replace frames, wait x milliseconds, loop images).

Perhaps Opera is what you're looking for. It's small and fast and has double buffering.

I might recommend Mozilla rather than Netscape 6. I've got a 32 Mb Pentium 166 sitting next to me, and for quite a while the nightly builds have run faster than Netscape 4.x. But maybe that's just me.

Or, try Opera. Sure, if you don't want ads, you have to pay for it, and if you're used to the generic IE/Netscape/Mozilla/etc interface, it'll take some time to get used to, but it's *incredibly* fast. It loads in only a few seconds on that same Pentium 150, and the speed it renders pages at compared to my Athlon 950 is only barely noticeable.
--

I agree with you, but I'd also have to say that more than a few people think that there always has to be a Linux version of everything Microsoft has. If you've ever seen the wish list for Mozilla, you can see this gets old fast. "Why can't it do this and that the same as IE? Why doesn't it support Active X? IE supports Active X. Why doesn't it look like IE? I like the way IE looks..." etc. Believe me, when MS figures out gestures are an awesome idea and incorporate it into IE, everyone will praise MS for such a great innovation... as some people (such as the MS PR department) don't consider anything an "innovation" until Microsoft does it.

Mimicking might not be the best idea, but remember that having an open source equivalent can make it a lot easier to migrate. And perhaps once the transition has already happened, they can find and open source alternative which better suites them (since they actually get the freedom to CHOOSE).

If they insist on moving the help, etc.. to HTML format then they should make sure it works in the browsers that are available.

Allowing competition into the market will allow (gasp) innovation to be present, possibly forcing M$ to do something new for a change, like make a better product.

--Mike--

The Opera web browser has targetted ads that you can select. Very nice. I don't get any tampon ads.

"Opera users are already excluded from many web sites, due to the User-Agent problem and the javascript implementation."
I agree with you on the javascript part, but... excluded from pages?

Could you give an example please?
I never experienced being excluded, because of using Opera. And I don't even use the latest version.

I call upon the designers of moz, IE, Nutscrape and Opera to disable this horrible pop-up abuse!

AFAIK, Opera has. I haven't tried it (I'm runnint Tru64), but according to their press release on 5.12 for windoze it has "Enhanced pop-up window handling". In Norwegian newspapers, this was portrayed as letting you disable annoying ads. I'll install it on moms and dads computer to see next time I go there.

Opera for Linux does not have Java support, nor does it support Netscape plugins or (and I quote) "Proper help windows." Sounds pretty feature-poor right now.