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Net Radio Returns, With Targeted Ads
Mike Hicks writes: "Looks like some of your favorite (*cough*) stations owned by Clear-Channel communications will get their streaming audio back on the web shortly. The new streams will use Internet-only ads targeted at you -- they will ask for your age, gender, and ZIP code." I would love to have the ads for laxatives and pregnancy tests replaced by ones for fireworks and local restaurants -- think they can get that from my age, sex and ZIP?
Remember that the masses are made up of individuals. Detroit used to have an excellent all-classical station, but doesn't anymore. To get your 24/7 classical fix, you have to go online. We also don't have any all-polka, all-Atom-and-His-Package or all-cheesy-pop-music-that-only-15-year-old-girls-l isten-to stations. Oh wait, I think we have about 3 of that last one.
Online radio allows for more formats than the local market will support.
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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
it's hard to listen to anything in polish, being in usa. on-line radios from chicago/etc are the only way to stay in contact with spoken polish.
--- d'oh
i've never really listened to online stations...however there is a market for them:
1) people at work who can't bring a radio to their office
2) people who listen to unpopular types of music (most forms of metal, for instance) there's rarely any local radio stations that play real metal, so the only options are listen to cds or online radio...
3) people who are out-of-town and want to get their hometown news...
I'm fortunate enough to live in an area (San Fransisco Bay Area) with a large number of college radio stations, so there's usually something good on the radio. However, I was visiting some friends recently (in the San Fernando Valley) and noticed that the radio dial there is full of crap. I ended up listening to the internet feed for KFJC while I was there. Sometimes "Why not just listen to the real radio" isn't enough.
-- My comment is above.
I don't know what the granularity of zip codes is where you live, but my UK postcode narrows my address to just 11 houses, and some are even more specific.
12345, it's in Schenectady, New York and it belongs to General Electric, Power Systems. (i live in 12304, blocks away.) I love using that one when pestered by Radio Shack people and other places that ask for zip and I used it all of the time in Subscriptions.
Too bad that when I actually am at GEPS (as a "shadow IT" contract worker) I can't get anything but CNBC streamed on the intranet (they rebroadcast it from an internal site, live, continuously, as they own it).
And you wonder why I hate unions and RIAA.
--
It is that which fertilizes the soil, and none can abide the odor thereof.
1) You say you're a 70 year old woman.
Result: You get adverts for bladder control products and funeral homes.
2) You clam you're a 3 year old boy.
Result: You get adverts for Barney and Time Life Warner's "Favorite Childrens' Songs" CD (If you haven't encountered this ad on FoodTV while watching the Iron Chef, it's enough to make you seriously consider slitting your wrists.)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
All the adds I ever SEE online are about petting da beaver.
Screw 3...
Thanks for the tip - I'm generally into alt rock, so Rock 101 didn't appeal to me. I'll try to catch 92.5, though.
...are actually location-specific, or pretty close to it.
--Perianwyr Stormcrow
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
You must smoke crack. 94.5 just plain sucks. They play the same 5 songs all day long (not to mention the ads)... Of course, all the radio stations in Houston suck. Listen to 88.7, it's interesting (NPR), and KTRU 91.7 is pretty cool sometimes (the rest of the time you'll wonder how much pot one has to smoke to enjoy the stuff they're playing). Actually I'd say KTRU was the best radio station in town. Back to my hole...
I'm curious how the ads will be inserted into the straem. Let's assume they use the same music straem over a broad area, with specific time segements left "blank" for ads. That means they could then send out the targeted ads automatically. So the challenge is to figure out what the "trigger" is and use it to block the ad. Suppose the ad comes from a different IP address than the stream - someone could develop an ap that rejects different IP addresses whenever the music stream goes quiet, and begin accepting them again when music restarts.
Of course, they could premix the stream and send it out as continously. That makes it more difficult - but not impossible. I saw a note about a program that could recognize music from a unique digital signature. How big is the playlist of ClearChannel? You'd have to "train" your filter by listening and marking music and rejecting adds, but after a while you ought have a pretty good list. Sharing lists would also help. Why not buffer the feed, compare it to a set of pre-identified signatures, and only pass those that are id'd as music. hell, you could even reject songs you don't like and replace them with ones you do.
Of course, that means they'll probbaly have to develop some new encrypted format and special palyer that can also pass info back on what you listen to, etc.
Technology - the new, improved Cold War - every time one side builds a better bomber, the other side builds a bigger bomb.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
The reply was tongue-in-cheek. Who is it that's not able to grok humor, Scheißekopf?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
So there are people who live in areas that have adequate bandwidth to listen to music that sounds better than am quality, but don't have a variety of radio stations available? Heh, who'd of thought it. I live in the boonies myself, but there are a couple of non country stations available, but a complete lack of decent bandwidth.
If it ain't a Model M, it's a piece of crap.
When someplace I don't want to give my address to asks, I have a simple answer
George Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
(Of course, it used to be "William Clinton" until January - I wonder how many Radio Shack catalogs he gets )
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
We've got like 4 of those pop stations, 4 country, 2 oldies, 2 jazz/news stations, and 1 metal station that used to play some cool stuff. 770 AM, radio K is the only station for me. And let's not forget about Rude Boy Radio, every Saturday from 10 to 12 AM. Hooray!
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The Opera web browser has targetted ads that you can select. Very nice. I don't get any tampon ads.
My name fits again.
Why not just ask me?
why not? cause they don't have a clue.
Almost all the adds are for Spinner its self. Which makes no sense because you are already listening to it.
If you value your privacy over getting ads that don't interest you, by all means lie. That's what I do. After all, one of the great things about the Internet is that it's pretty close to anonymous as far as marketers are concerned -- for all they know, you really are a 100-year-old woman who lives in Zip code 90210.
They think the right way to segment the population is by age, sex and zip code. It might eliminate some of the most irrelevant ads, but it doesn't change the junk-flooding nature of radio advertising.
Media corporations like Clear Channel view music as a 'product' to be dispensed to 'consumers' and it shows. The lack of interest leaks through the cracks in the shiny facade constantly. They'll put an ad for the Rolling Stones or some such dinosaurs on an alternative rock station. Or an ad for a disco that plays top 40. More importantly, the tone of most ads shows that they are aimed at 'the mass of drooling morons' rather than fans of a particular music. They'll use a music bed which could be expected to evoke nausea from the listeners of that station.
I know someone will claim that these things are inevitable, for economic or other reasons. But in the mid-80's, alternative stations really did reflect their own style more consistently. And AM radio (on the rare occasions I listen to it) does seem to cater more to the mindset of its listeners, with a focus on money, insurance, stocks, etc.
I really look forward to the end of commercial monopoly broadcasting. And I hope that Clear Channel's attempts to extend their tentacles into the internet are utter failures.
It may cause companies to get a clue, or, as the RIAA, MIAA, and various software companies have demonstrated time and time again, it could cause them to start claiming everyone who doesn't step to their beat is a criminal.
Food for thought, don't you think?
My Blog: http://nic.dreamhost.com/
Somebody found this insightful? Please explain how your personal life is in jeopardy by telling them your zip code, age, and sex. I'm assuming you're not the only person living in your zip code, although you sure as hell do seem to be in your own little world.
Another possible option is to give a zip code close to you without actually giving your own zip code. That way you can keep a certain level on anonymity (what city would be the finest level they could track) while keeping targetted ads.
Personally i would love to see ads targeted to my tastes more. Even with broadband about the 10th time i see some Pepsi/Coke or Tide ad i get a bit tired of it.
Hrm loving these
My favorite radio statio, DC101, is a CCCS (so close to communism I feel like eating Borsht) and right now since I dont feel like spending 20 bux on a cheap radio, I can only listen to it in my car with my blown speakers (maybe just speakers that blow). Now I will be able to listen to good music without stealing it and on good speakers.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
4) people who search listings for out-of-town talk shows on their faborite obsession, so they may call in.
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
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Ultimately, this question dwells in my head every time someone speaks of internet radio stations. Why do people listen to internet radio stations when a boom box sounds better and doesn't eat bandwidth? I can understand the neat-o factor, but come on, my sony CD boom box sounds mucho better than internet radio, and doesn't take a slice of my bandwidth pie.
If it ain't a Model M, it's a piece of crap.
Well, thanks to x-treme radio station merging, the ads are pretty much the only content not uniformily broadcast to everyone in the country.
Doubtless some people simply have buzzworditis. But it is certainly a viable alternative if there is no local radio station that meets your needs and you have something better than a modem. With DSL I can listen to the one radio station that has a good "americana" program (http://www.wets.org/ spends several hours a day playing music I like that I just don't hear anywhere else, and certainly not on any local stations) without any noticeable affect on my bandwidth for other things. I think that's pretty damn cool, personally. The hype factor will probably (hopefully) die off fairly soon, but the technology will still be useful for niche audiences that often aren't served by local stations.
"That old saw about the early bird just goes to show that the worm should have stayed in bed."
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
The good side is that you can avoid ads. targeted to teenagers. They all have that teens-are-stupid-so-lets-make-it-sound-stupid or we-try-to-sound-cool-even-though-we-are-old-and-ha ve-no-clue-to-what-they-want sound.
So say that you are 65 years old, then all you will get is quiet ads. for retirement homes in a low soothing voice. ahh.
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when they put up this "translation":
Translation...
As soon as we quit taking it up the ass by money hungry weasels in Los Angeles...We'll start it up again. Until then, hang in there cause we know how much it sucks not having The Rock Station on the web. Our freakin' hands are tied.
I always use the false identity Fargle Leibovitch, a 70-year-old Uzbekastani UNIX system administrator/homemaker.
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
A bunch of people ran antenna wires above the ceiling tiles towards the edge of the building if they were in the middle. It helped a bit.
/ \
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
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/ \
It will probably be similar to what happens on the national evening news (at least on ABC). You get a whole bunch of drug company commercials (heartburn anyone? I guess they show these during dinner for a reason) and then some local garbage.
/ \
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
x
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William H. Gates III [and similar obscene names]
Another good way to pick names for forms is to pick a random first name and last name from characters that have appeared in popular major studio movies, such as Pinocchio Poppins ("Pinocchio" from AOL/New Line's The Adventures of Pinocchio with Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Martin Landau, "Poppins" from Disney's Mary Poppins with Julie Andrews and Penis Van Lesbian).
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why not just ask me
Because you are the product being sold to advertisers. Because advertising as it is practiced is a coercive.
Some people I know who work on the technology of personalized ad delivery claim that it will empower the consumer. I'm skeptical that this can be realized anytimes soon given the interest that the ad industry has in being able to have tight control over the choices that consumer's have. Yes, its anti-market but why play fair when you can cheat and rake in the dough?
Here in cincinnati all the radio stations are already clear channnel! Even a TV station.
Why would I listen to this?
http://www.webn.com
http://www.700wlw.com
http://www.wlwt.com
blah blah
Get your Unix fortune now!
Why not use live365? Very good selection, and hardly ever any ads. The ads last for like 15 seconds and are only like every half hour. Check them out at www.live365.com
i can listen to my rap music (KBXX 97.9) again at work and have everyone make fun of me!
,
faeryman
is if the radio station could take your zip code and play local news and weather on request. I would like the hourly news to be local, national and internation news instead of just national news. Of course, I dont mind the national and international news from www.nakednews.com. That site kiscks ass (and shows it too!)!!!
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?"
Or listen to Radio 1, good music and no adverts.
All paid for by the British license fee, of course.
...But that doesn't mean I'll tell.
I refuse to use any service that does not explicitly state privacy policy that is acceptable to me.
My personal life is too important to me.
...the article doesn't mention, but I bet they can even get a patent on that "replacing terrestrial advertisements with commercials targeted specifically at Internet audiences."
Unless, of course, Amazon has that one too...
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At least they're starting with something for targeted ads. This will hopefully bring up revenues, and (if implemented in that market) maybe save some of our favorite web sites. At that same time, I fear for my privacy. =/
- A.P.
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"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I Do encourage people to listen to talk radio a lot more and get a firmer grasp of what is going on the world today. :-)
Who's the black private dick, who's a sex machine for all the chicks?
first they kick arbtotron out so they have no valid basis for ad rates. Then they start up their own "ratings"company now they charge for for internet ads.. What a good buisness model how do I invest............
If the "internet-only ads" are on a different server at a different IP, like banner ads, what happens to the radio part when the ad part screws up?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Useful information!
"Online" is a buzzword. Since it's cool to have an online radio station, everyone is doing it. There are more practical reasons, but just like digital radio, the big push is the fact that it's new technology.
icqqm [ICQ:11952102]
AP - Internet streaming giant RealNetworks has announced that it is working on a new server technology it calls RealSpecific Streaming, which allows servers running the software to serve advertisements based on the IP (internet address) of the connecting party, its connection speed, the referring web site, and other information the server transparently receives from the streaming users. Streaming content allows end users to receive continuous broadcasts (either audio or audio and video) without having to download a large file.
Philip Rosedale, CTO of RealNetworks, says "We are very excited about this new technology. It makes a lot of sense to serve very different content to someone connecting from a T1 (which indicates they're at work) and to someone on a 56K dialup. People on the AOL subnet can be served very different advertisements from people coming off the slashdot site [a forum for expert professionals in the information technology field]. It is a very sensible way of targeting ads, and is good for both the company, which gets more profit from the higher click-through rates, and for the consumers, who get interesting ads without needing to give up any personal information."
Rosedale also said that the new technology should make consumers less uneasy about receiving custom advertisements than when they are asked to give up private information directly. "Consumers are very wary of sharing private information with companies, and frequently would rather not receive custom content at all than give up private information."
When asked whether this new technology was a strategic defense against upstart Clear Channel Communications, which has recently announced that it will be targeting ads based on demographic information supplied by users, Rosedale replied "Who?"
There is no release date scheduled yet for the RealSpecific Streaming server. More information can be found on RealNetworks's web site, http://www.real.com.
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What exactly would be wrong with someone advertising a little beaver on the air? I haven't seen or had the chance to pet a beaver in sooooooo long.
This is not a `giant leap forward' ... it's a little step. They don't even know what to ask yet, so they're asking for the kind of information that they already know how to use.
Give them time, and they'll probably give you a questionaire to fill out, with a lot more specific questions than just a/s/l (age/sex/location) -- but the odds are that it'll *still* ask those three questions.
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Here in Houston, pretty much the only good radio station (94.5 The Buzz) is run by Clear Channel. This will be great for the times when you don't have access to a radio (eg. in school).
Actually age sex and zip are the determining factors for a well known traditional marketing concept called a "PRIZM Cluster".
PRIZM is a geodemographic system that helps marketers find groups of people who exhibit similar demographic and behavioral characteristics-- making it possible to identify and locate marketing targets.
This is based on the concept that "birds of a feather flock together", or in other words, that people with similar cultural backgrounds, needs, and perspectives naturally gravitate toward each other. People choose to live in neighborhoods that offer affordable advantages and compatible lifestyles.
PRIZM Clusters are usually useless in online marketing since you can rarely know where your customers are coming from unless you've already sold them the product. However, if you are giving the ad company a heads up by letting them know what cluster you belond to, they can serve you ads that their marketing research indicates you will be most interested in.
Obviously, PRIZM isn't perfect-- your daily junk mail should be a good indication of that. One of the big flaws in PRIZM is that its data is only updated every time there is a US Census, making it very slow to change. For instance, I receieve a lot of junk mail advertising things in Chinese, because the area I live in was until recently full of Chinese immigrants.
Being able to serve ads to you based on your PRIZM cluster will probably help you more than it will hurt you. If you live in an affluent area (for instance, a "Blue Blood" cluster), you will probably get ads for high-end electronics, sports cars, and high-limit credit cards. If you are identified as coming from a college-town zip code, you may be served ads for beer and textbooks. I really don't think this is something for any of us to worry about...
How's this for a marketing idea: no matter what your profile, a user would get streaming audio ads for the ultra-concealable x10 spy mic, perfect for eavesdropping on sultry babes.
Hit that mute button now...
Inventor of the LOLbalrog meme.
Targeted advertising has been used now for decades. Mass mailers can't afford to mail their crap to EVERYONE (it just seems like they do). Instead, they target based on Zip code, houshold income, if you have a phone or not, etc. Dominoes Pizza, for instance, does everything it can to avoid mailing coupons to housing projects and "bad" neighborhoods!! :o)
The main difference here is that you have an opportunity to mess with their demographic data. I made up all kinds of wierd crap for the Neilson Ratings bastards. They think I have 4 radios going at once all tuned to NPR.
DON'T PASS UP THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SCREW WITH THEM!!!
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.
if you're a trance-head, eurodance-freak, or into classical, check out http://www.digitallyimported.com
streams 24/7, lots of great music, totally ad-free so far.
Try substituting "news" for "radio". Do you understand the appeal of online news? You must, to some extent, since you're posting your musings in Slashdot, which provides 'news for nerds. stuff the matters.'
What brings you to slashdot? Maybe it is because it is a more specialized source for news than the sludge they pump out for the mass consumer at CNN. Maybe your interests are more particularly bent towards technology concerns (chip advances, IP law, LINUX news, etc.)
As you have more specialized tastes than mainstream news media may be able to satisfy, allow that many have more specialized musical interests than top-40 radio can effectively cater to.
My dad would find the news stories noteworthy to slashdot to be "superfluous", as well the music being pumped 24/7 on specialized radio networks like the "Progressive Rock Channel". Consequently he's missing out on a lot of breaking news in the tech space, and a lot of extended, self-indulgent instrumental noodling by pretentious drug-using art-students... (lucky him, actually!)
Fans of progressive art rock aren't likely to live in a city with a large enough population to have a progressive rock radio station. It is because 'the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few' in the marketplace. Yet, they don't obviate the needs of the few. So if an alternative channel exists to satisfy the needs of the few, why be surprised if people want to use it, even if it is currently subpar.
they will ask for your age, gender, and ZIP code.
Fact: Approximatly two thirds of the population of the United States can be identified with that information. Not kidding.
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
...the office I work in has several satellite dishes on the roof. I have a hell of a time getting the *local* stations in. Net radio stations are my only hope... ;)
Give me a break!
Stereotype advertisements... I smell insult.
Screw 3...
Doesn't matter; you know that whatever your profile, 95% of the ads targeted at you will be for pr0n.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
That they'll just use the info to know where to target more tampon and pregnancy tests??? I think so!
It'll be like "Hmm, tampon sales are down in Holland, MI. Maybe we should put some more ads on the ClearChannel stream."
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Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
Ads targeted for certain audiences have always been used, but they must have a HUGE database of advertisers if they plan to use your age, sex, AND zipcode. It sounds like a good idea from a marketing perspective, but is it really plausible?
I suppose to be fair, online radio is useful if you follow a certain station for some reason or live somewhere totally isolated, but for the masses, it seems like extra baggage.
On what Age, Sex and Zip I report to them. Anyone know what type of ads you'll hear if you put yourself down as a transgenre 70 year old from Northern Alaska?
Seriously here, the data is only as good as you tell them.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
Clearchannel doesn't even use local DJ's half the time...and their 200 stations are all using pretty much the same payola inspired playlists, so now we can have lots of crap on the internet that sounds exactly the same as the crap everywhere else.
You want innovation? go to www.radiok.org - Real college radio. Screw corporate radio and their crap once and for all.
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ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
You know, it's not the advertising that I hate so much. It's the lets-innundate-me-with-1590312812-ads-that-I-could n't-care-less-about-and-then-repeat-them-5-times-e very-hour.
Don't forget, you see 39482 ads because they're NOT TARGETED, and therefore the yield is very low.
If they could actually have me fill out a form to say "these are the things I'm interested in" and then only have me see ads that would be interesting, I think it would fly a lot more, and since it's a LOT MORE TARGETED, you would have less ads to deal with because they'd get a better response from their advertising.
Seems like a win-win situation to me...
If God gave us curiosity
I've always felt that the collapse in online advertising was brought on by the advertisers themselves. The ads inevitably always led to something which required you to give away money, or were tricked into joining some casino/pr0n site/whatever. Or those ones that look like dialog boxes. That is just plain nasty. My mum was getting really irritated that she couldn't get that box to go away when she clicked on it. Is it any wonder people ignore the things these days.
The banners eventually became trash, that people don't bother taking in... they are seen as scams and tricks.
There was no effort to make people more aware of products, which is where TV ads excel. Perhaps they shouldn't be trying to get money out of us directly, but instead let us know the product exists and show you how to get more information.
This is where ads based on ZIP code etc. come in. Most of the sites I look at are american based, and all the ads are for online stores in the states. I am Irish, and really don't feel inclined to pay huge shipping etc. If they knew where I was from, they could show me an ad that might actually be relevant to me.
They don't need to know any more than that... they can work out what my interests are from the station I listen to (just like TV). Hell, you can work out where people are just from their IP address really.
So online ads need to reinvent themselves. This story is showing how one company is making an effort, but at the end of the day, privacy advocates aren't going to like it one bit. There are better ways I guess...
These days, I mostly listen to talk radio. (I like music, but I hate most music radio stations.) It'd be great if I could listen to my favorite talk radio shows but with ads for stuff I care about instead of Gold Bond Powder. I seriously doubt my favorite talk radio programs will be online with targeted ads anytime soon, though.
And, as we know that youth is just a state of mind, who really cares ?
Why not go one better and let you select the categories of ads you want to see (like you can do for some online advertising agencies)? Ad agencies are making a big deal about how to determine the ads I want to see.
Why not just ask me?
If it means I wouldn't have to listen to ads for breast enhancement drugs, proescription drugs over the phone, sports games that I really couldn't care less about, etc., I'd be quite willing to tell them what I'd rather see, and what I would be more likely to buy.
think they can get that from my age, sex and ZIP?
Here's the ads they can provide:
if male:
under 13: can't show any ads
13-17: local resellers of Sports Illustrated, Swimsuit Edition
18-30: local bars
31-40: local strip joints
41-60: the mall (to take your wife)
60-80: local golf courses
80+: local cemetaries
for females:
all ages: local malls
Canned, generic programming on the air; canned, generic programming on the internet. Now they want to make audience-specific ads. Whatever happened to the days of audience specific radio, apparently the sponsors get preferred treatment over the listeners. Read this Salon artice.