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The problem with a career in science is that it is like a career in acting. Sure, there's the super stars at the top who are doing extremely well for themselves but then pretty much everyone else is struggling just to feed their families.

Salaries for Chemists

Geology

You've got chemists coming out of the gate making almost 70k a year, moving up to 120k a year as their career progresses. Oh, and by the way, physicists and materials people would probably be making more in the USA if there was more domestic manufacturing. Don't need too many physicists if your economy is based on bad banking and real estate. Think about that, when you decide which car to buy. [hint buy made-in-usa]

I cannot speak to CS, but in electrical engineering having a Masters doesn't mean anything.

According to average salaries information from this site, you are dead wrong: no masters, masters

That's been my personal experience as well. When your boss all but laughs and says, "having that masters degree doesn't mean anything here" he's trying to make you satisfied with your current salary, which is probably below average for your education. He might be right that it doesn't mean anything at the place where you work now but all that means is that you should be looking into working elsewhere. That's assuming you care about the money more than you care about your working conditions (your working conditions where you are now could be fantastic, and I'd take that over money every time, personally). If that's not the case though, get the hell out.

I cannot speak to CS, but in electrical engineering having a Masters doesn't mean anything.

According to average salaries information from this site, you are dead wrong: no masters, masters

That's been my personal experience as well. When your boss all but laughs and says, "having that masters degree doesn't mean anything here" he's trying to make you satisfied with your current salary, which is probably below average for your education. He might be right that it doesn't mean anything at the place where you work now but all that means is that you should be looking into working elsewhere. That's assuming you care about the money more than you care about your working conditions (your working conditions where you are now could be fantastic, and I'd take that over money every time, personally). If that's not the case though, get the hell out.

I do not think that salary is the national average and is for the L.A. school district which likely needs to pay more for cost of living.

To be a teacher usually means you have least one Bachelor's Degree, one Master's Degree, and one teaching credential (think BAR for teachers). In your mid thirties you should have 10-15 years of teaching experience (many teachers begin teaching while still in graduate school). In the United States, the median salary for a Master's Degree and 10+ years of experience is $77k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Master/Salary

If you examine that data you will see that teacher pay is behind most other Master's Degree job types.

"then why do teacher's make so little?"

From:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary

Average starting wage for a high school teacher in the US is 34,687. That's not very far from the average wage for an entry level IT position, or any other entry level job.

Factor that up by the fact that teachers can have a summer job, and that puts the average around 45k/yr.

I'm sorry, but that's a decent living. I live in Chicago, and have a friend that's a teacher. She's been at it 4 years and is almost to 75k for 9 months of work.

On a related note, I'm genuinely curious: what's the average salary for developers look like in the countries to which companies often outsource work, like India and China?

If this is to be believed:
http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Software_Engineer_%2F_Developer_%2F_Programmer/Salary

Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer with 5-10 yrs experience makes a media salary of around 430k Rupees. (between 8.5k and 9k US.) Interestingly, 10-20yrs experience is actually lower. (I'd guess they've got less in demand skillsets.)

It's not perfect, but I live here and love it. I'm not part of the CVB, but I welcome any well-run business fed up with their home state to take a look at Boise. It's a great place to live.

It's not perfect, but I live here and love it. I'm not part of the CVB, but I welcome any well-run business fed up with their home state to take a look at Boise. It's a great place to live.

It is NOT after the premiums were paid. You are looking at about $100k a year in liability insurance. Take a look on payscale.com. It is a great salary, but there is also a lot of training and education expense involved. Let me guess, you think that everyone should make the same money regardless of skill level, performance or education. Why is there such an assault on personal wealth these days???

According to payscale, you could get two entry level programmers for $9,630.80.

who knows if this particular one (first google result) is reliable, but it is consistant with my offer(which I had to turn down) and what I have read elsewhere, developers at 82k in the bay area, is something only google can get away with and still get good talent. Even tanking financial companies and banks pay 110k+ for someone that would come close to google's standards.

Both developers and designers cost somewhere between $150-200 per hour.

That's straight bullshit. The median wage for programmers is well under $50/hr. Only expensive consultants bill anywhere near the rates quoted.

It's not hard to find developers here in the U.S. for half the rate quoted in TFA. And that's before you consider the fact that much of the shovelware in the iTunes store is outsourced.

The pay really sucks. Frankly you'd probably be better off managing a fast food restaurant.

If you put up with the crappy pay and the stifling bureaucracy, then you're probably not doing it for your own selfish purposes, but rather because you feel that it's the right thing to do. Which means that you are genuinely interested in teaching people.

How much can you earn managing a fast food restaurant? Is it more then 40k a year? A teachers pay puts them in the top 50% of wage earners. Not great money but the pay DOES NOT SUCK. And the bureaucracy tends to drive out people with options, talents, youth, and abilities. People interested in teaching will eventually be driven out like everyone else unless they have no better options.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-25-teacher-salary-raise_x.htm http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

The trouble is, teachers are paid extremely poorly (that's why we have so many bad ones)

Bullshit. The years of teachers being underpaid are long gone. Their pay puts them in the top 50% of wage earners. Not amazing pay but to call their better then average pay "extremely poor" is just plain wrong

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-25-teacher-salary-raise_x.htm http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

The rest of what you said may have some validity but your understanding of teacher incomes is just plain wrong.

I've been building computers since I was about 11 years old, and have always played with computers and their software as a hobby. I've administered my systems at home running websites, databases, etc. After high school, I got a job doing security systems, satellite TV, cable TV installs, all sorts of things *not* computer-related.

Being a member of TCBUG (Twin Cities BSD User Group, http://tcbug.org/), I came across a job posting for a FreeBSD sysadmin, and interviewed for the job. I was able to prove I was knowledgeable and overcame the hurdle of not having a degree, due to the many 'hobby' hours I put in tinkering. Even without a degree, http://payscale.com/ indicates I'm above the 50th percentile for my salary range.

That being said, get a degree if you can. Life will be much easier and you might learn something. I don't recommend the non-degree path as there's a certain stigma in white-collar jobs for people without a degree.

I searched Google for "salary comparison." Among the many relevant results were http://www.salary.com/ and http://www.payscale.com./

I think it's closer to $15 per hour.. not the best, but not a terrible wage...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=United_States_Transportation_Security_Administration_(TSA)/Salary

Well, I don't know about the US, but in Canada, they can demand quite a bit more. Average $56,000 for 1-4 years of experience. And with the unions in place, they get quite a bit more as their seniority increases, although for some reason payscale.com blocks those numbers from public view.

A bullshit meme -- and a false dichotomy.

Congratulations, you've proven nothing. While you're surfing Wikipedia, may I suggest the section on soundness?

If you can't offer evidence to justify your accusation of "slave labor"...

Hi, my name is Hyperbole, I don't think we've met. . .

What exactly is "fair"? Go ahead, try to justify, why an American is entitled to a wage higher, than a Mexican, who -- upon coming to this country (legally or otherwise) not only manages to earn a living for himself, but to also support extended family back home?

Your argument is based upon the premise that a unit of currency has the same purchasing power in the US as it does in Mexico. This is incorrect. There are a ton of numbers that can be run to make a comprehensive argument here, but let me take just one metric to start: daily wages.

In the US, the median hourly wage for workers with 1-4 years experience in their field is $13.75. Assuming an 8 hour day, that's $110/day pre-tax. The same metric in Mexico is MX$209 per day, or about $20 USD. Think on that.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Patent_Examiner/Salary

I did not say a CIO with 5-10 years experience will be making $90k. I'm saying the CIO at the startup will be making $90k.

You have to start somewhere, and nobody is going to just let you be a CIO and pay you $150k fresh out of university. You have to spend start at 90k and work your way up to 150k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Chief_Information_Officer_(CIO)/Salary/by_City

The good news is, if you get your MIS masters, then you'll have a shot at becoming a CIO, and depending on where you work will decide how much you make.

You probably wont be working for a profitable corporation if you just are starting out, and in fact you probably wont be the CIO at all, you'll be an officer of some sort. In 5 years then you can be the CIO, and 5 years after that you can expect to be making over 150k.

The payscale site says the average CIO makes $150k.

I understand that there is stress involved with having to keep up with a reader base that expects content 24 hours a day, but I agree with all of the people who suggest hiring more staff to meet the demand if you can afford it. But I still think bloggers should just be happy that they are getting paid for what they do at all. Most aspiring/freelance writers would happily take the "stress" written about in this article in exchange for earning MILLIONS (or even anything more than $20-30K/year) in exchange for what they do. Don't forget that if you are blogging full-time and performing no other job, you are not a doctor or a professor or a lawyer or an engineer, you are a writer. Let's look at the average salaries for journalists, shall we? I think the current system is as fair as it can be. Hm, Michael Arrington apparently reviewed the PayScale website. Maybe he should have actually used it.

But I digress ...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Sanitation_Worker/Hourly_Rate

> If you've got top grades, you earn a chance at being accepted to a Law school (for example). Once you've done your time, you are practically guaranteed a six-figure income: that's money in your pocket because you excelled at school.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_/ _Lawyer/Salary

More like, "almost a 6-figure income after 20 years". You, like many non-lawyers, grossly overestimate how much lawyers are paid.

Your opening position should be "The average pay for my job is double what I'm currently earning". Make sure you bring some documentation with you. Seriously, according to that site, on average system admins with no experience earn about 41,000 USD / year.

You'd make good money as a chemical engineer or petroleum engineer. This claims $55-$100k depending on experience. Petroleum engineers also make good money.

One nice thing about the job is you get to work with huge cool dangerous equipment. If you work for the right company in the right capacity you might even contribute to solving some important problems, like petroleum dependency.

It would appear that an MCSE is worth rather more - sometimes much more - than $10/HR:

Median Salary by Job - MSCE
Median Hourly Rate by Job - MCSE [Both updated May 3, 2007]

It would appear that an MCSE is worth rather more - sometimes much more - than $10/HR:

Median Salary by Job - MSCE
Median Hourly Rate by Job - MCSE [Both updated May 3, 2007]

Your federal government buggers up the school system and universal education and you win by taking it away from them. Change you government to one that looks after your school system properly.

Seriously you want the education system in a country to be as uniform as possible

It is far from appropriate that all the poorer children in one particular state get a substandard third world education while wealthier children from another state manage to get a first world education.

All privatisation does is strip profits out of the system and adds a layer of B$ marketing which you have to pay for... The administration destroys the functionality of one government department after another, on purpose, gets kickbacks from privatising those functions, where corporations manage ...

but of course teachers in Australia are paid far more than the US minimum wage by almost a factor of 5. I am frankly, really surprised that huge numbers of suitably qualified US teachers don't just give up and emigrate.

The http://www.payscale.com/ service works via the Internet by enabling individual employees to submit their job profile and salary data, which is then compared to others. Because a very large number (millions) of people utilize the service every month, the company claims it is able to use the volume of information statistically to determine accurate real-time salary information. The company generates revenue by selling aggregate data and web services to employers, to aid in determining correct market rates for hiring, benchmarking and budgeting, and by targeted advertising to employees that visit its web site. Salary.com uses purchased data in place of user submitted survey data. While the salary.com approach is arguably a more time tested approach to accurate numbers, it's less diverse as they have no way to accurately gauge the worth of a given skill, the benefit of a shortened commute, or the true value of a given degree. http://www.payscale.com/ wins hands down for my money. check out http://www.payscale.com/research if you don't believe me. Loads of free data to be found.

The http://www.payscale.com/ service works via the Internet by enabling individual employees to submit their job profile and salary data, which is then compared to others. Because a very large number (millions) of people utilize the service every month, the company claims it is able to use the volume of information statistically to determine accurate real-time salary information. The company generates revenue by selling aggregate data and web services to employers, to aid in determining correct market rates for hiring, benchmarking and budgeting, and by targeted advertising to employees that visit its web site. Salary.com uses purchased data in place of user submitted survey data. While the salary.com approach is arguably a more time tested approach to accurate numbers, it's less diverse as they have no way to accurately gauge the worth of a given skill, the benefit of a shortened commute, or the true value of a given degree. http://www.payscale.com/ wins hands down for my money. check out http://www.payscale.com/research if you don't believe me. Loads of free data to be found.

The http://www.payscale.com/ service works via the Internet by enabling individual employees to submit their job profile and salary data, which is then compared to others. Because a very large number (millions) of people utilize the service every month, the company claims it is able to use the volume of information statistically to determine accurate real-time salary information. The company generates revenue by selling aggregate data and web services to employers, to aid in determining correct market rates for hiring, benchmarking and budgeting, and by targeted advertising to employees that visit its web site. Salary.com uses purchased data in place of user submitted survey data. While the salary.com approach is arguably a more time tested approach to accurate numbers, it's less diverse as they have no way to accurately gauge the worth of a given skill, the benefit of a shortened commute, or the true value of a given degree. http://www.payscale.com/ wins hands down for my money. check out http://www.payscale.com/research if you don't believe me. Loads of free data to be found.

You're right.

It still sounds good to me, and I was looking into the possibilities a year or more ago. The lifestyle switch would be welcome to me, and I bet to the rest of a cross-section of adventure/traveller/techies. I don't think that netting that particular vein of IT pros will yield that many fish with more than 10 years of actual 'work' under their belts, especially ones that (a) have no family to uproot, (b) have any desire to take on the challenge of moving to a foreign country where your wage would be less than a third of what you made, in USD, nevermind the adjustment for cost of living. Including wrapping up financial burdens in the USA, which would never get paid up when your salary is so diminished.http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/v id-3068/fid-11570

I am moving to a part of my city that has a significant Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi population *just for the escape* to a saner sort of life: groceries, attitudes, etc.

A "ghetto" like that is not an easy thing to find, from my experiece.

I'd jump at the chance to work in India - even if it meant being employed by a company in India, paying me the indiginous wage. It would be nice for some American companies to sponsor some of us adventure/traveller/nerds at reduced salaries. I, for one, am available.

This shows median salaries in India based on certification. The median salary for someone with a MSCE gets $4560 a year. Getting an MSCE is way above reading.

I couldn't find any sources on secretary salaries in India, but I bet its less than that and secretaries probably need to be very proficient in reading and other office skills including computer use(but not always). India seems like a prime target for this kind of product, lots of people making less than 2k a year, who can read and are probably interested in computers.

>Second of all if you're making $21k/yr or more then you're making more that most Americans. These rules only affect the rich.

I don't think that's true. 21K is very close to the median for some of the poorer states like AR, MS, etc. States with higher populations like NY, and CA are higher, around 26-27K per year. Someone in IT making 21K/yr is far, far, far from rich.

Here is a link to find median wages for the US.

Yeah, but what about the quality of life? How is the police service is New Delhi compared to NYC? How about the fire service? What about the public hospitals, etc. You're still comparing apples and oranges.

The standard of living is far lower in many of those countries. But the thing is that employers don't care. They just look at base costs. The higher standard of living in USA (for example) accrues to YOU--not the corporation.

I don't have a job.

oh :( I don't have a job either :( Good luck with your job hunting. I have pretty much been unemployed since I graduated from school 3 years ago (however, I started a company with one of my friends within those three years--it failed :( ). Good luck with your job search...

No, I'm not OK with that. Not at all. I'd say let the IT workers take a 25% pay cut. Hell, then maybe I could get a job.

I think that 25% is kind of low. Those figures may be misleading. I think it should be more like 50%.... ok... I did more research. Screw the cost of living I described earlier (that's too inconclusive). I found better indicators. I actually managed to find actual wages in India. This should prove my point without any doubt.

Check out the following links:
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (India)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (USA)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (Canada)

Just to give an idea, let's compare:

(all US$; date unknown)

IT (computer,software)
India =10,464
China = 12,000
USA=75,000
Canada=50,000

C++
India=12,121
China=49,000*
USA=80,000
Canada=N/A

* Chinese numbers may not be precise since they have small samples (only 4 for the C++ case)

These are all senior positions and I am trusting the source. So if you look, you are paying around 20% of US wages in India and slightly more in China. So you need to take a 70% to 90% pay cut I would say. Can you do that? The answer is no. You would be far below the poverty line (I think the Canadian poverty line is somewhere around 20,000(?) and US should be similar). You can just barely manage to pay rent with a 12,000 salary!

As far as I'm concerned, there is NO WAY you can take a pay cut. You would have to SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASE your standard of living*. I think the "solution" of pay cuts just doesn't work. I think ALL jobs in wealthy countries will be threatened under capitalism. There just isn't any way someone living in a rich country can compete. It's not just manufacturing or the tech sector. It's pretty much everything.

(* There is another option and that is to devalue the US dollar. And I'm talking HUGE devaluation. Doing so could potentially collapse capitalism so capitalists probably won't contemplate that for a while)

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Yeah, but what about the quality of life? How is the police service is New Delhi compared to NYC? How about the fire service? What about the public hospitals, etc. You're still comparing apples and oranges.

The standard of living is far lower in many of those countries. But the thing is that employers don't care. They just look at base costs. The higher standard of living in USA (for example) accrues to YOU--not the corporation.

I don't have a job.

oh :( I don't have a job either :( Good luck with your job hunting. I have pretty much been unemployed since I graduated from school 3 years ago (however, I started a company with one of my friends within those three years--it failed :( ). Good luck with your job search...

No, I'm not OK with that. Not at all. I'd say let the IT workers take a 25% pay cut. Hell, then maybe I could get a job.

I think that 25% is kind of low. Those figures may be misleading. I think it should be more like 50%.... ok... I did more research. Screw the cost of living I described earlier (that's too inconclusive). I found better indicators. I actually managed to find actual wages in India. This should prove my point without any doubt.

Check out the following links:
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (India)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (USA)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (Canada)

Just to give an idea, let's compare:

(all US$; date unknown)

IT (computer,software)
India =10,464
China = 12,000
USA=75,000
Canada=50,000

C++
India=12,121
China=49,000*
USA=80,000
Canada=N/A

* Chinese numbers may not be precise since they have small samples (only 4 for the C++ case)

These are all senior positions and I am trusting the source. So if you look, you are paying around 20% of US wages in India and slightly more in China. So you need to take a 70% to 90% pay cut I would say. Can you do that? The answer is no. You would be far below the poverty line (I think the Canadian poverty line is somewhere around 20,000(?) and US should be similar). You can just barely manage to pay rent with a 12,000 salary!

As far as I'm concerned, there is NO WAY you can take a pay cut. You would have to SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASE your standard of living*. I think the "solution" of pay cuts just doesn't work. I think ALL jobs in wealthy countries will be threatened under capitalism. There just isn't any way someone living in a rich country can compete. It's not just manufacturing or the tech sector. It's pretty much everything.

(* There is another option and that is to devalue the US dollar. And I'm talking HUGE devaluation. Doing so could potentially collapse capitalism so capitalists probably won't contemplate that for a while)

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Yeah, but what about the quality of life? How is the police service is New Delhi compared to NYC? How about the fire service? What about the public hospitals, etc. You're still comparing apples and oranges.

The standard of living is far lower in many of those countries. But the thing is that employers don't care. They just look at base costs. The higher standard of living in USA (for example) accrues to YOU--not the corporation.

I don't have a job.

oh :( I don't have a job either :( Good luck with your job hunting. I have pretty much been unemployed since I graduated from school 3 years ago (however, I started a company with one of my friends within those three years--it failed :( ). Good luck with your job search...

No, I'm not OK with that. Not at all. I'd say let the IT workers take a 25% pay cut. Hell, then maybe I could get a job.

I think that 25% is kind of low. Those figures may be misleading. I think it should be more like 50%.... ok... I did more research. Screw the cost of living I described earlier (that's too inconclusive). I found better indicators. I actually managed to find actual wages in India. This should prove my point without any doubt.

Check out the following links:
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (India)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (USA)
Sr. Software Engineer / Developer / Programmer (Canada)

Just to give an idea, let's compare:

(all US$; date unknown)

IT (computer,software)
India =10,464
China = 12,000
USA=75,000
Canada=50,000

C++
India=12,121
China=49,000*
USA=80,000
Canada=N/A

* Chinese numbers may not be precise since they have small samples (only 4 for the C++ case)

These are all senior positions and I am trusting the source. So if you look, you are paying around 20% of US wages in India and slightly more in China. So you need to take a 70% to 90% pay cut I would say. Can you do that? The answer is no. You would be far below the poverty line (I think the Canadian poverty line is somewhere around 20,000(?) and US should be similar). You can just barely manage to pay rent with a 12,000 salary!

As far as I'm concerned, there is NO WAY you can take a pay cut. You would have to SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASE your standard of living*. I think the "solution" of pay cuts just doesn't work. I think ALL jobs in wealthy countries will be threatened under capitalism. There just isn't any way someone living in a rich country can compete. It's not just manufacturing or the tech sector. It's pretty much everything.

(* There is another option and that is to devalue the US dollar. And I'm talking HUGE devaluation. Doing so could potentially collapse capitalism so capitalists probably won't contemplate that for a while)

Sivaram Velauthapillai

Lifted from an ad for a POLICE / FIRE COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST

THE POSITION

Under supervision, receives and dispatches emergency and routine calls for police and fire service; operates a variety of communications equipment including public safety radio, telephones and recorders; determines nature, priority and disposition of calls using a computer aided dispatch (CAD) system; maintains radio communications and status of police and fire field units; and does other work as required.

The Combined Communications Center is a 24-hour facility located at the Police Department. Incumbents must be available to work weekends, holidays, call back, standby, and rotating shifts. The current shifts are: Day Shift 6:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Evening Shift 4:00 p.m. to 2:30 a.m.; and Night Shift 9:00 p.m. to 7:30 a.m. Shifts are rotated every 12 weeks (from day shift, to evening shift, to night shift); there are no exceptions to shift work.

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

Ability to: Follow oral and written instructions; learn police and fire radio operations and procedures, local streets, police beats, fire districts, the classifications of crimes and recognition of common police and fire codes in order to obtain information from the public, initiate a response, and accurately record information; remember instructions and information; clearly and tactfully communicate factual information to citizens; question callers while simultaneously typing information into a computer terminal.

Skill in: Operating a computer terminal; listening and speaking clearly and responding quickly and accurately to emergency and routine requests for assistance.

Desirable Qualifications: Spanish-speaking skills; experience/training as an emergency communications operator, dispatcher or similar position requiring knowledge of emergency medical or public safety operations; coursework in criminal justice or communications; prior computer-aided dispatch (CAD) experience.

Typing Certification of 30 net w.p.m. is required. You must submit a copy of a typing certificate of 30 net w.p.m. (gross words-per-minute minus errors) with your application. The typing certificate must have been obtained within the last twelve months. The City does not give typing tests.

EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS

High school graduate or equivalent (myemphasis)

Lifted from an ad for a UNIVERSITY POLICE OFFICER TRAINEE

REQUIRMENTS

University Police Officers meet the highest police standards in New York State.

To become a University Officer, a person must:

be 21 years of age

be a New York State Resident

have completed 60 college credit hours(my emphasis)

possess a valid New York State drivers license

pass a written Civil Service examination

pass a medical examination

have binocular acuity of 20/20 corrected or uncorrected, and no less than 20/100 uncorrected

pass a physical agility test (includes testing for cardiovascular and muscular endurance, strength, and flexibility)

pass a psychological examination

pass an extensive background investigation

pass 16 weeks of basic training administered by SUNY at the New York State Police Academy in Albany.

complete a probationary period of employment.

Median Police Salary $ 36964

Median Dispatcher Salary $24299

Over on the Microsoft Training site they have a bunch of lemmings shouting about how Microsoft training is just the cat's pajamas and can give you "challenging opportunities, quicker promotions, and a leadership role".

This training AIN'T cheap.

Now, on the other hand, this article post here on slashdot is uhm....basically saying that you have to hire a sysadmin to run your machine and that's the expensive part. They lead us to believe you'd have to pay the linux guy more.
However if you compare These Numbers with These Numbers you'll see that the microsoft trained guys get paid more than the industry average.

So - I'm missing something here. Either Win2k doesn't need a sysadmin (yeah right...my ass) and Linux needs a small geek army, or the Microsoft Training (sounds like something Scientological - "Standard Tech" kinda stuff)is a bunch of bunk.

Microsoft is either lying about Win2k's total cost, or they're lying about the career prospects/validity/usefulness of their MCP training.....and all the industry surveys show that MCSEs make more money than linux geeks (cert-ed or not). That's damn well the case where I work.

So which one is it, Billy? Lying out the left side or the right side of your face....

Over on the Microsoft Training site they have a bunch of lemmings shouting about how Microsoft training is just the cat's pajamas and can give you "challenging opportunities, quicker promotions, and a leadership role".

This training AIN'T cheap.

Now, on the other hand, this article post here on slashdot is uhm....basically saying that you have to hire a sysadmin to run your machine and that's the expensive part. They lead us to believe you'd have to pay the linux guy more.
However if you compare These Numbers with These Numbers you'll see that the microsoft trained guys get paid more than the industry average.

So - I'm missing something here. Either Win2k doesn't need a sysadmin (yeah right...my ass) and Linux needs a small geek army, or the Microsoft Training (sounds like something Scientological - "Standard Tech" kinda stuff)is a bunch of bunk.

Microsoft is either lying about Win2k's total cost, or they're lying about the career prospects/validity/usefulness of their MCP training.....and all the industry surveys show that MCSEs make more money than linux geeks (cert-ed or not). That's damn well the case where I work.

So which one is it, Billy? Lying out the left side or the right side of your face....