Slashdot Mirror
Bridging the Digital Divide With PCtvt?
maddu writes "Dr. Raj Reddy, a pioneering researcher in artificial intelligence and a
professor at Carnegie Mellon University, plans to unveil his new project, called the PCtvt, later this year - it's a $250 wirelessly
networked personal computer intended for the four billion people around
the world who live on less than $2,000 a year, according to the NYT (free reg. req.) He says his device can find a market in developing countries,
particularly those with large populations of people who cannot read,
because it can be controlled by a simple TV remote control and can
function as a television, telephone and videophone." We've previously covered the somewhat conceptually related Simputer.
The internet* is a good thing because everyone can share and grow
Get millions on the internet*
The internet* is a bad thing
Try to detect those with nefarious intent and stop them
Blame lack of resources when intelligence fails and villains succeed
More people on the internet* can bring down barriers and expand learning.
Get more people on the internet*, without fixed infrastructure, e.g. wires
The internet* can be a worse thing
Need more technology to sniff communications and more people to sift it
etc.
* Formerly known as the Internet
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
No-Reg Link
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Reg free link plus related articles. (NYT is the 2nd one right now)
"...it's a $250 wirelessly networked personal computer intended for the four billion people..."
Ah, well then. Your trillion dollars or mine?
Admittedly, my salary is much more, but let's say you make $40,000 a year. Would you be willing to spend $5000 on a computer?
... maybe they should spend their money on food and birth control? I mean, what good is the 'net when you have 8 kids hungry at home? Seriously, the net is a wonderful tool but it's not going to magically transform a shantytown into a utopia.
Instead of just reducing the prices further and thereby reducing margins for manufacturers, we are incuding them to fire more people, bringing down incomes on average and thus again starting off the cycle...
Increasing prices always bring increasing incomes....
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
All I can say is great. Most of the people who this device is aimed at can barely afford food. So I guess this takes precedent on maslow's heirarchy. BAHHHH.
MMMMMMMM. NEW KERNELS. AHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH
It should be noted that in the eightees, a lot of people did, and those were a lot less useful then those we have now.
Note that a loan for $40,000 at 5% interest is about $170 per month. Would I pay that for a computer if I had to today on a $40K salary? The answer is probably yes.
Not unless a computer was my main attraction in life. It seems that marketing this device to people who can't read would make me think that these people wouldn't exactly have the desire for a computer.
They may want a DVD player but who's going to pay for the media that they are going to watch? 14% of your yearly Salary is a lot. To add another $20 per DVD is asking a bit much.
Are they going to sign them up for Internet service and cable too?
Don't talk rubbish... there is no way anyone who lives on less than $2000/year would even consider spending that kind of money on that kind of thing. There are more important things: food, clothing, housing, heating, health, education, transport... if you can afford to drop $250 on a 'luxury' like this, then you certainly aren't in that salary band.
Geeks maybe, but most average people did not buy $5000 computers. You didn't see a wider adoption under they started to fall under $2000.
Working link to Slashdot simputer article
Of course, the Simputer (aka Amida) doesn't seem to have worked out very well. It's just too darn expensive. Zire 31 is better for the money, even in India. Guess they should've done the manufacturing for the thing in China, not India.
Willing, yes. Not able to, though.
At least, that's what my wife says.
"it's a $250 wirelessly networked personal computer intended for the four billion people around the world who live on less than $2,000 a year, "
OK so all the big computer companies are complaining about slowdowns and thin margins. Why aren't they addressing this market?
Great. Now we only need to find a cheap way to bring power to everybody's hut...
Remember the year 2000? They promised us flying cars. They delivered the PT Cruiser...
It should be noted that in the eightees, a lot of people did, and those were a lot less useful then those we have now.
Note that a loan for $5,000 at 5% interest is about $20 per month. Would I pay that for a computer if I had to today on a $40K salary? The answer is HELL yes.
(Sorry screwed up the numbers in my first post. Should have realized they didn't make sense. Mod it down.)
http://west.cmu.edu/executive/pdc/projects/pctvt/p ctvt.htm
s to ries/2004031301820700.htm
/ ms id-423423,prtpage-1.cms
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/03/13/
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow
TruePunk | Games
No, but split that among 50 families in the village, and it becomes MUCH more palatable.
Why, oh why didn't he use linux, like the Simputer? Maybe Microsoft are supporting this to use as the next weapon in the battle to keep the developing world away from Free Operating Systems.
Mod parent up!
That a AI researcher and professor thinks that he has the best skills to create a mass-market product that requires extreme low cost high volume engineering skill. Engineers spend days figuring out how to save a couple of *cents* on a project like this.
It's a nice idea and it should be done, but he's not the one that's going to do it.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
One challenge Mr. Reddy faced was in persuading Microsoft to offer a version of its Windows software for the project for far less than its commercial price. But Mr. Reddy said he eventually won the support of Craig Mundie, the chief technical officer and a senior strategist at Microsoft.
Strange that they wouldn't consider one of the free alternative OSs instead of going begging. Maybe Microsoft kicked in some research funds or something.
Considering cost is a *major* factor in this project, and every dollar counts, why the hell did he put Windows on it? Granted, he seems to have worked out a deal with Microsoft for a "reduced price, stripped" copy of Windows, still... $0 is always less than Windows.
In this case -- a controlled hardware environment -- Linux would have been perfect. And free (as in beer).
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
If the computer is perceived as a means to get ahead in the highly competative education market, many families will sacrifice then. I dont want to sound stereotypical, but many of the Asian cultures value education much more than Americans. People will pay a considewrable amount for private schools, Saturday schools, summer camps, etc.
wirelessly networked personal computer intended for the four billion people around the world who live on less than $2,000 a year
great, 4 billion more idiots calling tech support.
What is slashdot?
>Would you be willing to spend $5000 on a computer?
YES
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
A 5K Dual G5 powermac would last you years and years. I'm still on a beige G3, five years old. It's been upgraded quite a bit, but I haven't shelled out enough in upgrades to buy a new machine yet.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
"... maybe they should spend their money on food and birth control?"
Or maybe we can google through Slashdot for all the stories that deal with the third world. Educating ourselves, and finding out the question has been asked and answered multiple times.
This is assuming manufacture for all countries formats -
Since there are no universal broadcasting formats, how is the internal TV tuner would need to be unique to country. If that country has no TV broadcasts yet would this PC then drive the creation of said format?
Same question for the power conversion - each country's format would need mfg'd (or sent w/inverter increasing the code). For the startup countries - "here ya go!!".
Ummm, isn't that what Globalization is suppose to be doing? If it isn't working, I want my job back.
Sounds like a great platform for a portable version of Wikipedia.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Surely it would have made more sense to sell them Xboxes instead.
Not only is the Xbox a lot cheaper and easily powerful enough for this job, but it would also have the added advantage of making huge losses for Microsoft since they sell the hardware as a loss leader.
Don't academics have better things to do, like ponder the computational complexity of their navels? The fact is that academic problems in CS are drying up, most of what passes for "research" these days is an opinion with a different slant being pawned as fact, and academics are scared about their relevance and their futures. So, they build low cost machines for third world countries.
I bet parents shelling out $25k+ a year at CMU are happy.
Good grief, how long are you amortizing these loans? Even without interest, it takes 20 years to pay off $5000 at $20 month. Unless you meant $200/month which is closer to 2-3 years and more likely for a product with a 4 year useful life. 20 years on a car would be like financing a car over 40 years or more. It'd be completely destroyed and useless by the time you finished paying for it.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
A large part of the reason why the internet has been such a big and fast-growing success is because the propensity to get online has been linked to education and sophistication in the user base. If you put 500 million cavemen and -women in front of these nifty terminals, I think the best you could hope for is some kind of "infinite monkeys" outcome.
But maybe I'm wrong--if you put halfway intelligent people online, even if they're not all totally literate at the beginning, they will probably get a lot more opportunities and incentives to climb the education curve. I guess that must be where all of these "cheap terminals for the 3rd world" are going.
And now that I think about it, one of big concentrations of unleashed education, intellect, and technical sophistication on the Internet is Slashdot. You can make up your own punchline on that.
I remember many attempts in the USA to offer "less computer for less money". The most famous was the IBM PC Jr in the 1980s with the really crappy keyboard and minimal expandibility. One has to offer a computer with most of the capability of existing models. With prices halving every two years, this is not too hard to do. Thus we see the gradual ratcheting down of computer prices without much degradation of capability. Its the higher end computer that give more speed or storage for more bucks.
So, a person who makes less than $2,000 per year and may be illiterate is going to spend the equivalent of six weeks income on a wireless network PC. I don't think so. Or, is the plan to get governments and NGO's to buy it for people with the expectation that they will be motivated to learn how to use it. What's wrong with encouraging the spread of 'Internet cafes' in third world countries? That seems to be a model that is actually working. This sounds like the 'simputer' part II.
[Insert pithy quote here]
intended for the four billion people around the world who live on less than $2,000 a year
Do these people even have electricity? Maybe we should be examining our priorities here... Clean drinking water for everyone, or email? I'd don't know about you guys, but I'd take food and water over 32 messages about increasing the size of my pen1s!
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
Alternaltively, you could have the all the laid off/out-sourced IT workers in the US form a bridge around the world by grabbing each other's ankles (I said each other's ankles, not their own--that's for corrupt CEOs)
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
This is a DDoSer's wet dream.
i remember seeing something in the United Nations universal declaration of human rights about not this:
Everyone has the right to not be subjected to using Microsoft software.
Trying to market this product to poor people his in clear violation of this.
Guess what? Not everybody in the world needs to own their own PC. Not even every family. A village with 250 families could each kick in a buck, and share it.
Frankly, if you look at the impoverished, tribal, un-industrialized parts of the world, they have very little need for videophones or email. I doubt, given the choice, that many of these destitute tribes/villages would take the computer over say, a well or access to penicillin or hunting/farming supplies.
Why don't we get them some agriculture and other basic infrastructures in place?
Are eggheads really so self-absorbed that they think the biggest problem these people face is how to get their e-mail?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
"If you put 500 million cavemen and -women in front of these nifty terminals, I think the best you could hope for is some kind of "infinite monkeys" outcome.
"
I'd rather have 500 million "cavemen" than 500 million "mamma's boy slashdotters". At least the caveman has shown that they have the one thing that's important. The ability to survive and propogate. How many slashdotters would do so well if the roles were reversed?
What an idiotic notion coined by a politician. That is all we need, more stupid people on the net.
These people need clean water, arable land, sanitation systems, medical facilities and drugs, and birth control more than they need a portable net connection. Just that the "real needs" aren't so flashy - and don't put as much money into the pockets of hucksters.
It's not 1/8 of your salary unless you make $2000 a year. Four billion people may live on less than $2000 a year, but that doesn't mean that all those four billion have $1999 in yearly income. I'm sure that for many people, it's not an 1/8 of a year's salary, but 1/4, 1/2, or even more.
If you are making less than $2000 a year, I doubt you can even read. What use are computers and the net if you can't even read what's out there?
It'll end up being a $250 device to look at porn.
If the farmer could look up and see which market is giving the best price for his avocados, he'd be able to make a choice. 50 miles east to sell at $0.10/lb, or 75 miles west, to sell at $0.20/lb. Currently, he just has to flip a coin, because he has no way of knowing the prices, out there.
Or getting information from the local agricultural ministry, about how to combat an avocado blight thats going around.
Not everything that can be gotten through a CRT is mindless fluff.
Umm...there's something seriously wrong here...
We start with:
Then, later on in the article:
Maybe it's just me, but $250 sounds like a lot more than 5% of $2000. I might be willing to pay 5 percent of my annual income to own something cool -- but 12.5%? I don't think so.
Dude, are you sure?
I have a December 1999 G4 Power Mac (Sawtooth - AGP graphics). It is 4 yrs 9 months old.
This is a second-generation graphite G4 ---> the prior version was PCI graphics. And prior to that, you had the G3 towers with the same form factor, but bondi blue. Therefore, any beige Mac has to be older than 5.
My G4 has a 23 inch 2-megapixel LCD screen, RAID 0, 0.48TB internal HDDs, Bluetooth, 2GB RAM, and runs its OS X operating system better than when it was new. I have two open PCI slots; I am thinking of using one for 7.1 channel optical audio soon. Any questions?
The next pasture is always greener
20 years on a *computer* not car.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
" A little education is a powerful thing."
Uh, huh.
"Sorry but that witch doctor isn't going to slow down rates of HIV infection."
Here's your dose. A lot of medicines, including HIV medicines have their roots in the Amazon rain forest. A lot of those have been discovered with the aid of indiginous people. People who've already been using them for their own medical needs.
Lose the stereotype. It makes you look silly.
Sorry Tom, but the internet is a very effective form of birth control. Just look around here.
250$ is the price of an Xbox , with next XP ;-)
...
;-)
Thats why
Dont worry where sending them Michael Robrtson from Linspire wit its 199 computer
I pitty those people in developping country , they always get one kind of plagues or another.
Oh, hey, I _do_ spend more time on my computer than my car!
Seriously, though, if you make $50000 and spend significant time on your computer; it's well worth it to get a good one.
People that make less then 2 grand a year have more important things to worry about, like keeping a roof over their heads and food in their children's stomachs..
I really dont think a 250$ computer/TV/whatever is a smart buy for them.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Holy crap dude, that is a phenomenal sig!
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Will that outsourcing resource drag the salary of a MSCE down to the $2000/yr level too?
There's definitely precedent.
"When I was in my first year of college, I told my father that I was going to own a 4K computer someday! And he said, 'Yeah, but they cost about as much as a house!' And I said, 'Well then, I'll live in an apartment.'" -- Steve Wozniak
They really only need two things in developing countries - education and opportunity. Everything else will follow. There are many groups trying to feed and provide medicine for these countries but they have barely made a dent. I am not saying that this device will provide either education of opportunity but not all efforts have to be as simplistic as sending food.
Dr. Reddy? I knew that guy at LaHonda! Everyone thought he was worthless, so they gave him the cheapy-box project. I ran into him once and all he could do was babble on about touching the soul of your computer. I thought he was a loon, but I guess he made good.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
Stupid People + Information = Dangerous Stupid People
Stupid People + Education = Normal People
Stupid People + Education + Information = Exceptional People.
Information without understanding is like a gun with no ammo. These "unwashed masses" as they are called don't need information, they lack the skills to evaluate and understand information. They need education not an interactive TV to placate them....
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
Why can't he just make a quick phone call to his buyers in the two cities? No need to burden the man with fluff technology when the answer can be gotten in his own language, within seconds, and be as up to date as possible (not every buyer would be posting his prices, they depend on who sells, what sells, how much etc.)
And if the village has no phones, then the computer would be useless too.
I realize that good information access can really help people make advances in their lives, but really, economic inequality is a much bigger problem that the Digital Divide.
Perhaps it is more important to defeat one-sided trade agreements such as the FTAA and the WTO agreement on agriculture, which puts economic power in the hands of the industrialized north.
If more people had access to fair wages, self-sufficient farming methods and nutritious food, people wouldn't need to work so hard at creating Microsoft-funded landfill-bound consumer boxes...!
I RTFA and I nearly turned to the trash can next to my desk and vomitted. Capitalism is great when there is a viable market to be profitable. But to intentionally go into a market that has no use for such a device is rediculous. Sure people felt the same way about the automobile, telephone and television. But the kicker here is that it is offering nothing inovative in helping their lives. We might as well invest that time in helping to develop the countries, and from that we will grow much more viable markets.
But does it run Windows XP Starter Edition?
If I made under $2,000/year there is no way I could aford $250 for a computer. That's 12.5% of their yearly income on a PC. I barely make 50K/year and there's no way I could afford to spend $6,250 on a PC. The price seems a little steep.
The article fails to mention that Raj Reddy was already on the Microsoft payroll. See this four year old MS article, or poke around where appropriate.
Making the world a better place, one psychotic episode at a time.
Having said that even though I think people in these places in this situation could afford it I'm not sure it will be largely successful. I do however think there will be takers.
You know, this sounds great in theory. And then the theory hits reality and smashes into smithereens.
Here's the scenario. Stay with me, here; it may seem complicated, but it'll be easier to follow than Ayn Rand's straw men...
1) Joe Poorguy has very little education. He knows the details of how to operate very simple machinery, and he's pretty good at scrounging bits and pieces from scrapheaps to repair a bicycle or a wheelbarrow. He's also pretty smart, being able to come up with novel and workable solutions to his problems. But he can't read, and his arithmetic skills are rudimentary.
2) Fred Doogooder shows up and says, "Hey, Joe, let me tell you how we do things back in Prosperityland!" He hangs around Joe for a month or so, telling him all about how he needs to use information to get ahead. He tells Joe about reading and education. He maybe even teaches Joe to read. Then he says, "Okay, Joe, now you know about the value of information. Tell you what I'm gonna do: for the low, low price to you of four months' labor I'm gonna let you have this Information Appliance. How to power it, how to get it hooked up to an information source, and how to pay ongoing maintenance costs will be up to you, but this here opportunity is one you don't wanna pass up."
3) Joe looks at this Fred dude and wonders how in hell this supposedly smart guy made it across the street without getting run over. He's got this "opportunity" of going without food for four months in order to get a device which will tell him all about how he can use his nonexistent resources to be a better producer. Joe may not know how to do calculus, but this isn't a particularly difficult arithmetic problem.
Now, step four of this scenario differs based on who's writing it. I could make up a whole bunch of endings and let the mods argue about funny versus flamebait, but instead I'll just write my own fantastic ending and let y'all enjoy it:
4) Joe goes to his neighbor, Charlie Kneecapper, and says, "Hey, there's this haoli dude who's got a bunch of high-tech gear he's trying to sell off to the poor chumps around here, and he's convinced that we're both as dumb as dirt AND that we believe that someone else might pay us for the information we get out of these boxes. I've got a better idea: let's empty his warehouse and beat the crap out of him. He goes back to Prosperityland thinking that he's lucky to be alive and you and I split the proceeds from selling his weird TVs on the beach."
Oh, go on, check out my job.
And it'll run most DVDs.. and as an added bonus plays both PlayStation 2 and PlayStation games as well as FinalFantasy XI...
Well, if you're stuck in a hut might as well indulge in a little Fantasy. :)
Does his computer include a monitor or no?
Running out of departments, are we? Or is it some kind of "null" department, or maybe The Department (the place to be)?
The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
How many times have you called several stores for a price quote, vs looking them up online? Why can't this guy?
Forget the power. Power is doable for many poor countries... it's the monthly Internet access fee which will kill you. At $50/mo for standard broadband in the United States (YMMV), that's far more than the price of the computer in a year. What are Internet access rates like in these countries? How many people can share a decent pipe? I assume the village will go for a pooled Internet connection to the wireless access point, but what's the cost effectiveness of this?
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Sure... $250 US is about 11,611 Indian rupees as of today! I wonder how many people in India can afford to watch movies on a small screen for almost 12,000 rupees when they can go to a nice AIR-CONDITIONED theater for almost nothing. As an entertainment device, this will never beat the movie theater, cheap vcrs,...
The answer is astonishingly simple - Information is the key to finding out how to feed those hungry kids! If the problem is corruption in the local govt, information is the key to coming up with a solution. If the problem is lack of farming technology, where do you think the solution might be found, if not in what is perhaps the largest information repository in the world?
Or you could end up having a shitload of starving script kiddies enjoying the latest Nigerian-translated Paris Hilton sex video while swatting away flies from their faces and wondering when the that l33t Red Cross haxor is gonna return to give their illegitimate parents more anti-HIV drugs (which are really just placebos since the real drugs were stolen by the warlords for their Congalese whores).
IronChefMorimoto
The mobile phone is the Internet for the poor!
(Damn right, that would in realative terms, buy one hell of a machine for many of us in the west.)
If it lasts for 3 years, for instance, there's your = 5% right there. No need to invoke Moore's Law for something like this. If two families share a computer, them it's even less.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
I have the feeling it's not easy for a third-world citizen who makes a dollar a day to get someone to finance them a loan...
As the income of those 4 billion people is closer to 0 than $2000, so are the chances of success of this product.
I guess some people realize just how big the divide is...
I don't see this device as selling to 4 billion people in the first iteration. What it _might_ do is sell to a significant fraction of those folks-enough that most of these folks would know somebody that had one--or could go to a local gathering place and use one. What that means is stuff like a lot of interesting 3rd world art work showing up on ebay-and emergence of web sites geared to the concerns/needs of the 3rd world.
Anyone remember the interfaces in The Diamond Age? The population didn't need to read or write because interfaces had become iconographic and voice/speech based.
I suspect that having access to computers will be beneficial only after some specific infrastructure is in place first. Dumbing down an interface doesn't seem to be a way to improving the chances of that infrastructure will improve to the point that such a device could actually be used.
A far more productive revolution in computing has come about via Internet cafes. A community can build a shared resource like that much easier and the communication between those who visit it is far more likely to spread skills than a bunch of remote controls that don't need any skillset to operate.
Sig under construction since 1998.
And what exactly is the benefit of birth control to the head of a third world family? Remember, we're talking about subsistence farming here. So when you peddle birth control you're trying to sell someone on greater economic prosperity by denying him the only real way in his environment to materially increase his prosperity, more children.
In such an environment children are a resource, not an expense. Birth control is only attractive to a culture where children are an expense, not a resource. Until you materially bring up the overall level of prosperity in these cultures you cannot escape that simple economic reality.
So one is really as useless as the other, the only advantage to the internet appliance is it gives the illusion of greater prosperity, and a view to the wider world. But neither offering materially affects the root problem, until the fundamental inequities in the global distribution of wealth are addressed there is little hope to ending this situation.
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
Did your Googling skillz turn up evidence that he is receiving money from Microsoft now that he works at Carnegie? It would be nice, you know, as backup for your claims.
targeting "particularly those with large populations of people who cannot read"
Hmmmm, and I always thought that's what AOL was for ?
Here's my 2 pence, they/someone should include software to help teach people along with TV, DVD player, and whatever internet browsing tools they feel these people "need"
What separates Mr. Reddy's approach from other efforts is his belief that even the world's poorest communities can become a profitable market for computers...
He's no saint...
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
Don't think Tech Support. Think 4 billion more PCs to 0wn and turn into spam-sending zombies. My inbox thanks you.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
The causes of poverty and hunger in the world aren't so simply solved.
Imagine this man can't grow avocados, or anything, because he lives on nutrient-less sand, and has no source of fresh water. He's trying to scrape out a living on inhospitable, inhabitable land, because some tin-hat dictator took over his country, and he happens to be in the wrong ethnic gene pool.
Look at all the displaced refugee's of various wars. Look at the Kurds in (Saddam ruled) Iraq. Sorry, computers aren't going to do much for them. They'd download pictures of hamburgers the same way I download pictures of girl-on-girl hardcore action.
The man needs a well and bags and bags of fertilizers. The man needs to be taught techniques to make something grow. To rotate crops to stop soil depletion, etc.
Failing all that, he needs a new place to live. He needs food to eat and a roof to sleep under.
Yeah, I'm sure the guy could save a nickel on tillers by finding one on eBay. Mapquest can even save him a quarter days journey to market. That's fine.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
some people just never learn
a normal fully functional PC without the need of expensive internet connection, maybe not the top of the line, but fair fast one, is less than $250, with some promotion, dell 400SC was $180 with a free palm, it was $250 a while ago too
why on earth those people keep "inventing" those thin client, networking PC, with price tag no cheaper than a more capable PC, and trying to sell it?
how many times they needs to try before they realize "THIS DOESNOT WORK"!!!
I don't want to sound negative but...
Isn't it wise to learn these people how to read? how are they going to absorb any information?
I'm not sure at all what the merits of this device are, but if you live on $2000 a year you DO NOT have $250 to spend on a COMPUTER. Think about that 1/8th of your income on a computer. lets assume for a moment that we are talking about a $40,000 American Income. Thats $5000 for a computer. Granted I don't want for much, but I feel like 40,000 is not that much after my student loans, rent, gas, and what not, and there is no way in hell I would spend 5k/yr on a computer. Hell I wouldn't even spend that much on a car payment per year. Somehow I think the same is true for a family living on 2k/yr?
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
$250 isn't really cheap enough, but it's a good improvement over $400 + monitor...
most people already own the TV, so this funcioning as a TV as well doesn't really help much.
people here still buy Pentium 100's and win95/98 and somehow make it work, for some $150, though they're somewhat hard to find.
the posters above are correct; many poor families invest heavily in a computer as it's seen as an investment in the children's education. same in any country, including the US
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I'm not sure how the PCtvt is really relevent; it seems to be based on the assumption that for PCs to be useful, they need to be in people's living rooms.
When I was travelling through Peru and Bolivia, almost every town that had electricity has a communications center; which was pretty much an Internet Cafe where people could not just access the Internet, but also make phone calls and do other things. These were not set up for tourists; these places seemed to get the bulk of their business from locals.
There didn't seem to be a shortage of these communications centers; frankly they were more common in Bolivia than they are in the USA (which to be fair is just because in the USA we have our computers at home). Given this ubiquity, what more is really needed?
But that's not necessarily how technology is adopted.
For example, cell phone service is very expensive relative to a person's salary in a developing country. But they are fairly common. The person with the cell phone becomes the village's micro-phone company, and makes enough money off of it to justify the investment.
Same thing could be done with computers, or the computer could be a communal resource that several families chip in on.
By analogy in the 80s, computers were too expensive and not useful enough for day to day tasks for most households to bother buying. Most people got their first experience of computers either through their work, or through school.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Stupid People + Education + Information = Exceptional People.
No, no, you missed it:
The answer should be "Exceptionally Dangerous People".
Obviously I didn't include down payments. If one adds a five year amortization (I don't agree that that is too much: computer replacement rates are falling, and a five year old computer is completely fine today) it comes to $104/month the first year, falling to $87/month the fifth.
That is a lot, but remember, we were talking about somebody made $40K a year, in which case the answer is still hell yes that I would pay that much a computer (I pay almost that much for my Internet connection, and I make $25K or so as a grad student). Scale the numbers back down to somebody who makes $2K paying for a computer a $250 computer, and we are talking about $6 per month.
The solution to poverty and hunger isn't universal.
The poor guy you're speaking of, trying to make sand soup, needs a whole different level of help.
Not all "poor and hungry" are at that level. A few years ago, I had ocassion to ride my bike through Turkey a lot. Off in the hills near Adana. Came across many, many small villages. These guys had nothing BUT their farms. Little tiny village, one general store/meeting place/local bar. Usually, the only telephone in the village as well. Were they 'poor'? By local Turkish standards, yes. Hungry? Not really. But they were working like dogs, just trying to get their crop in and get a decent price for it.
These are the guys who could seriously benefit from this type of tool. Better disease protection for his crops. Better crop rotation. Better fertilization techniques. Better tractor maintenance. Better price for his crops. Bingo...more food left over to give to the guy who can't grow his own avocado.
Hell...I'm not a farmer. But give them more information, and let THEM figure out how to implement it.
i always thought it was a necessity... that's it! tonight I tell my wife she's got to stop throwing 500.00 a month out the window on frivolous crap like... food =)
> Failing all that, he needs a new place to live
What? No, the FIRST thing he needs is a new place to live. If he's trying to farm in the middle of the fucking desert, his problem is obvious. The bags & bags of fertilizer is a terrible idea -- it's just like the U.S. government: If it doesn't work now, throw more money at it instead of fixing what's actually wrong. If the plants won't grow, throw some more fertilizer down. What then? They are locked into paying all their profit into buying more fertilizer because the ground will not give any nutrients. Move to a place that isn't all SAND, and maybe you could grow something. I'm no genius, but even I can figure that one out.
the grand majority of those 4 billion people not only live on less than $2000 a year- they live on less than $365 a year (since the going wage at the bottom of the third world is $1/day)
Hmm... Can you see where you made a mistake? "Bottom" != "Grand Majority". There are a lot of people for which this device could be affordable. He says in the article that he is targeting people where the cost represents 5% of yearly income - perhaps roughly the same as the proportion of a normal computer cost to average annual income in the western world. Getting computers into the hands of more people can only be good for skills development and the future of these countries. Look at India or Pakistan's software industry, for example.
Has anyone noticed that the right wingers have been surprisingly quiet about their boy lately? This can only mean one of two things:
1. They don't have confidence in him or his ability to win in November due to the drop off in popularity.
2. They are planning something to try and ensure that he wins, or that Kerry's win can be countered in some sly way.
I think it's time to smoke out the real terrorists in this country: George W. Bush supporters.
If you make $40,000 per year, about 1/4 of it ($10,000) is going to income tax (in the good ole' USA). You have to remember that in these countries, the income tax is not as substantial (if it exists at all).
If the IRS said you can either give us your $10,000 or buy a $10,000 computer, which would you do?
Without education, the human mind has no way of discerning truth at all. That leads to dangerous cultures. An example of this is the Middle East.
In the US we continue to want to believe that other countries think the same way that we do.
They don't.
Few people in the US would think that it is OK to withhold food relief sent by the United Nations to the malnourished. In IRAQ that was accepted and tolerated.
What we think is inhuman and barbaric, they accept as, "The ends justify the means."
That type of thinking just perpetuates more misery.
Fortuantely, it is simple to understand where someone is coming from, look at the fruits of their action.
By their fruit you will know them.
Actions coming from the heart will result in peace and understaning. ( e.g. Gandhi, Mother Teresa )
Actions coming from our Ego's result in death and war. ( e.g. Stalin, Hussein, Hitler, Bin Laden. )
We all have the ability to choose.
What type of world do you want to live in.
Judgement Day is everyday, now and forever.
I can't help but wonder if the real taget for this thing isn't the US digital divide. That $250 price-point is near the magical price (which I'm guessing is $199 US) for all those students who can't afford a laptop, and school districts without deep pockets who feel they need laptops for all their students.
This is a real no-brainer for Microsoft ... they export the XP programming interface for educational software developers, lock them in for developing educational software (Edutainment?), and set XP up as the defacto-standard platform for low-end educational platforms. And as familiarity breeds conformity, all those XP lite users eventually become XP consumers and developers world-wide.
That isn't to say this isn't something that wouldn't be used world-wide, but it sure smells like a proof-of-concept for the next generation of student computers targetted for schools. But maybe I'm just the paranoid sort that sees this as the obvious foot-in-the-door for Microsoft...
If you open your eyes and your mind, you'll be surprised what you might find.
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
Keep in mind that it's even worse than that. Four billion people live on $2000 or less per year. Two billion of them live on less than $1000 per year, and a billion of those live on less than $500 per year.
A thousand pardons. I should have have written has been on MS payroll. It is possible that he is no longer. Regardless, the article fails to mention Reddy having enjoyed a paid relationship with Microsoft.
By the way, he's been a faculty member at Carnegie Mellon since 1969, a full professor since 1973 and the Simon University Professor since 1992, so it's not now that he's at Carnegie Mellon, he has been longer than MS has been around.
Making the world a better place, one psychotic episode at a time.
Do we really want all those stupid people clogging up the internet and slowing our pr0n access down?
...but the idea stills holds up. You cannot compare our income to theirs. Well besides the fact that very well might live with their parents if they are that poor, but life also costs less. How do we know that $2k there isn't the same as $6k here? That isn't mentioned in this study, either.
So your making $6k/year living at home, and you see something that would be a telephone, video phone, TV, access the internet, and play DVDs and CDs, for $250. Sounds pretty good to me.
Also, nor can you assume the capacity they have for this technology(Did you see the picture of the wooden hut in asia with the fiber internet connection?). These countries are trying to close the divide, and they might also back this project if the test succeeds. What if it were cheaper, or at least the same $250 because the government distributed it instead of retailers? Then, instead of rolling out fiber to every home, they have advanced wireless nodes?
Basically, this is a solid idea not to be blown off because you wouldn't spend $5000 on just a computer.
The Windows thing...sounds good to me. I liked my iPaq, and my xbox has yet to crash on me. In addition, it provides a name brand, and a company capable of producing and living up to the obligations of 4 billion users.
$250.00 for a computer that works with a remote through your TV. Been there and done that ... and cheaper than $250.00. I have a modded Xbox with a larger hard drive and Linux installed. This all works through my TV with a remote, wireless Xbox controller, or USB keyboard (mine is currently wireless).
The applications that are available in Linux and/or on a modified Xbox are superior to anything that this group seems to be offering. So why is this story worthy of a place on Slashdot (beside the fear factor of Microsoft in the home of third world consumers)?
The only revelation here is that the latest in technology from a leading and distinguished group of academic professors and Microsoft can come up with is inferior in every way to what the open source/free software model and a community of volunteers has already accomplished.
Useful links -
The latest in modded Xbox news and applicaiton development:
http://www.xbox-scene.org/
Xbox Linux site:
http://www.xbox-linux.org/
The NY Times article also neglected to mention this little tidbit.
Making the world a better place, one psychotic episode at a time.
Thats why DVDs and CDs cost 1$ in third world countries. Piracy will supply the media for these machines :^)
Science is the Real TRUTH!
Probably the number one factor in succeeding in education is the expectation and interest of your parents; not your family wealth. Many immigrants were poor, but expect their children to graduate from high school and go to college or even professional school. One recent large ethnic group has a strong work ethic and expects kids to contribute to the family bottom as soon as they qualify for work. Hence they have a 40% dropout rate.
Well, this might not be the best crowd to ask if you want a fair representation of world population.
I (for one) HAVE spent $5,000 on a computer when I was earning less than $40,000. Of course, doing so was one of the many steps that led to my earning much more than 40,000.
plus-good, double-plus-good
Besides, the questions would be:
In any case, the cheaper computer is definitely needed in that village; but forget about farmers; that example is contrived. Farmers' children will be the sole users of the device, and good for them.
When that guy gets a surplus he can sell that surplus and have cash to spend on his family.
When his kid doesnt have to work to keep his family fed...he can go to high school and get a job in a factory or in an office. Then that guys kids can get a job as an office manager and send his kids to college.
And its got a wireless keyboard, mouse, remote control and everything you need to surf the web.
Plus its about the easiest device to set up and use you can get to surf the web, with even 90 year old gradmothers calling it a breeze.
Why pay(2 1/2 times more) $250 for another device?
Yes but you forget that your $2000 is worth the same of poor persons $2000 but $2000 is all what the poor person has and it must try to live and raise a family of it after which not a lot is left if any. You still have plenty of money left for all kinds of luxeries.
-- I don't buy it, I grow it.
I hope those of you blathering on about all the food the parents buy for their children with their 2k/y salary realize that food over there is a lot cheaper than food over here. They're not sitting around paying 5 dollars for a loaf of break at the local Kwik-E-Mart. In my last semester of college I subsisted for an entire semester on less than 200 dollars food spending cash, and that's here in America. I'm sure they spend much less in 3rd world countries.
Cool. They finally have a computer. Now all they need is electricity...
I can't afford a sig!
My problem with convergence is that it makes me wait longer to take advantage of improvements. If I have my PS3, DVR, Computer, Home-Theater, etc. separate I can replace any one of them. If I buy it all together I'm much less likely to purchase another high-priced system to take advantage of a new DVR technology.
KIS,KISS
Keep it Separate, Keep it Simple.... Stupid
Google for it. It is making serious inroads in India.
Make no mistake about this - putting a computer in the hand of a peasant won't drammatically improve his state as much as setting up a system for irrigation, procuring farm products etc.
Most of these so called steps to "bridge" the gap, are really misdirected. There is something to be said about developing infrastructure and frameworks for development and much less to be said (in favour of) giving toys to the poor.
Prem Kurian Philip
IT Research and Development
Songbird Technologies
http://www.songbirdtech.com/
Keep in mind while calculating the % of annual income this device costs, that in many asian countries eg India, education is valued VERY HIGHLY. In fact, many of those 'middle class' families will not shy to cut back on cloths, food and luxuries (smaller TV, refridgerator etc) to put their wards in best school of city!
:-)
There is a reason why your jobs are moving to India... people are not shy of spending their last rupee on eductaion!
In my case, my father bought me a computer (my first one.. got after waiting for ~4 years) when I completed high school... it costed nearly 50% of his then yearly income, but he saved money for it through the years and bought it for me... on just the indication that it *might* help me in my education... 5 years later, I've completed my degree and am now employed at Oracle corporation
- mritunjai
I'm posting right now from a $3200 Power Mac 8600/250 system (purchased with some extras). 96MB of RAM, OS 9. Got a new HD for it a few years back, has not been upgraded since. Date of manufacture: May 1998 (iirc).
Not that I have the money either way, but before I decide on buying a G5 now or waiting a while, I'd like to see what kind of speed bump IBM is able to pull off for the next gen chips.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Troll? wtf?
#!/usr/bin/english
It actually isn't contrived at all, in fact it's already happening in India. You see, the buyers who come to these remote villages offer obscenely low prices to the farmers, who often have no alternative market to sell their goods, and then make a killing selling them at regular market prices. Internet access has allowed the farmers in these remote villages to research real market prices and find alternate buyers, thus increasing their income dramatically.
This isn't just fluff technology, it has real and immediate value in these peoples daily lives. It transforms their economy from a buyer's monopoly to a free market, allowing the farmers to build the wealth from which, as we all know, everything else flows.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
So one is really as useless as the other, the only advantage to the internet appliance is it gives the illusion of greater prosperity, and a view to the wider world. But neither offering materially affects the root problem, until the fundamental inequities in the global distribution of wealth are addressed there is little hope to ending this situation.
Not true. The internet appliance gives access to a broader market, allowing the owner to get better prices for the goods they produce, as well as information on more efficient agricultural techniques, veterinary information and medicines, and distance learning, all of which most certainly do address the root problems that many of these people are facing.
How do we know that? Because it's already happening in remote, traditionally impoverished areas of India and Nepal.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.