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The United States has always provided 20-25% of the UN budget, far more than any other nation in the world. How anyone could mod the parent post as "informative" is beyond me.

Granted the US has been assessed at 25% of the UN budget, however, the US has been in arrears to nearly $1.6 Billion. Meaning, despite saying the US is responsible for one quarter of the UN budget, the US hasn't been paying any of it out.

Bottom line, the US OWES the UN for non-payment of its Member Fees. I quote this "As the single largest debtor, the U.S. has severely hindered the UN's capacity to deal with the many problems that face the world today."

To further what I have said, the US has given itself a unilateral deduction in its dues from 25% to 22%. The US voted itself to pay less.

The US made a one time payment of $1.4 Billion to cover its arrears as "Thanks" for the help in Afganistan, but still owes nearly $1 Billion from non-payment till this day.

For your reading pleasure, here are some of many that I have found using Google. International Court Rebuffs U.N. Defaulters

U.N. Member States Accept New Deal on U.N. Budget

Trade and Global Governance

The people who modded it "informative", are likely people who have made the effort to research the background information as opposed to spouting off patriotism at a drop of a hat.

Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that it's always right all the time.

Illegally according to who?

The Constitution of the People's Republic of China, that's who. What do you think I sat up all night writing about, my cat?

Giving control of the internet to the UN would mean giving China a say in how it is run. Given their idea of free speech (it's a Constitution right for the Chinese), that's really not acceptable.

From the Constitution of the People's Republic of China:

Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

So if they censor words like "democracy", I take it that the Chinese cannot access their own constitution then since that word is right there in their preamble. Maybe it's better for the Chinese government that their own people can't read their constitution so they don't know how they're being robbed and cheated in plain sight.

Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.

Article 37. The freedom of person of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable. No citizen may be arrested except with the approval or by decision of a people's procuratorate or by decision of a people's court, and arrests must be made by a public security organ. Unlawful deprivation or restriction of citizens' freedom of person by detention or other means is prohibited; and unlawful search of the person of citizens is prohibited. Article 38. The personal dignity of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable. Insult, libel, false charge or frame-up directed against citizens by any means is prohibited.

Article 39. The home of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable. Unlawful search of, or intrusion into, a citizen's home is prohibited.

Article 40. The freedom and privacy of correspondence of citizens of the People's Republic of China are protected by law. No organization or individual may, on any ground, infringe upon the freedom and privacy of citizens' correspondence except in cases where, to meet the needs of state security or of investigation into criminal offences, public security or procuratorial organs are permitted to censor correspondence in accordance with procedures prescribed by law.

Article 41. Citizens of the People's Republic of China have the right to criticize and make suggestions to any state organ or functionary. Citizens have the right to make to relevant state organs complaints and charges against, or exposures of, violation of the law or dereliction of duty by any state organ or functionary; but fabrication or distortion of facts with the intention of libel or frame-up is prohibited. In case of complaints, charges or exposures made by citizens, the state organ concerned must deal with them in a responsible manner after ascertaining the facts. No one may suppress such complaints, charges and exposures, or retaliate against the citizens making them. Citizens who have suffered losses through infringement of their civil rights by any state organ or functionary have the right to compensation in accordance with the law.

Article 51. The exercise by citizens of the People's Republic of China of their freedoms and rights may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society and of the collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens.

...such as the outlawed Falun Gong religious group...

Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.

Article 51. The exercise by citizens of the People's Republic of China of their freedoms and rights may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society and of the collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens.

Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

Article 41. Citizens of the People's Republic of China have the right to criticize and make suggestions to any state organ or functionary. Citizens have the right to make to relevant state organs complaints and charges against, or exposures of, violation of the law or dereliction of duty by any state organ or functionary; but fabrication or distortion of facts with the intention of libel or frame-up is prohibited. In case of complaints, charges or exposures made by citizens, the state organ concerned must deal with them in a responsible manner after ascertaining the facts. No one may suppress such complaints, charges and exposures, or retaliate against the citizens making them. Citizens who have suffered losses through infringement of their civil rights by any state organ or functionary have the right to compensation in accordance with the law.

Article 51. The exercise by citizens of the People's Republic of China of their freedoms and rights may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society and of the collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens.

Article 52. It is the duty of citizens of the People's Republic of China to safeguard the unity of the country and the unity of all its nationalities.

Baidu lost first round of copyright dispute after one day of trial in the first instance. Baidu say that they will appeal.

Here is what the US State Department has to say about China's MODERN record:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27768.ht m/

Lemme see... Page Not Available. Ooooh - China is so evil that they've deleted the page!

Oh and many ppl will be interested in a little ditty about the USA FROM CHINA:
http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303 _175406.html/

Lemme see... Page Not Found. Damn Chinese! They're deleting the entire web!!!

Your point is misguided, as your lack of interest and/or knowledge regarding China's current human rights violations is grossly lacking.

My point is based on over 10 years of studying the Chinese government and society. I have never claimed that China has a great human rights record. I simply do not believe that Iraq was a hell of a lot better.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27768.ht m

http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303 _175406.html

I have to assume you are referring to human rights violations under Mao.

right, but read this article could be on the horizon for them.

Required reading for anyone tempted to post a comment on the IP law of China: Ministry of Science and Technology: Laws and Regulations

Topics:

Patent Law
Trademark Law
Copyright Law
Technology Contract Law
Product Quality Law

Freedom to buy alcohol and cigarettes without a license or age requirement

Shops ignore the law, but sales of alcohol and tobacco to minors is illegal in China and you are expected to show your ID. People's Daily Online: Law stresses ban on underage booze sales

kick China out for censoring their citizens overtly

Well, it's not that easy - as most things in politics. The point of having China in the UN is two-fold: one so we can stop them from doing things to other peoples; two so that we include them (rightfully) among the other superpowers. If you don't think China is a superpower, then you don't understand why it is so hard to force change on them.

I don't agree with what they are doing to their citizens, and in a perfect world we would put a stop to it - but it isn't as easy as it sounds. Kicking China out of the UN would have the same effect as America leaving the UN: World War III. All bets are off and the world starts looking like Europe before World War II.

But why not go into Darfur? Why not hold Saudi Arabia to the same standards? Saudi Arabia is a member of the United Nations and executes innocent people by the hundreds weekly. Why not stop all forms of tyranny everywhere? Because it isn't practical. When we (liberals) were trying to do it we were told to stop trying to save the world - now saving the world is lead policy to NeoConservatives (by their own admissions, see: BBC's The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear).

Why not start to right the wrongs at home?
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Abuses/USA .asp

Even China thinks we have problems:
http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303 _175406.html

Of course, I'm a "crazy liberal" when I start to talk about making America better. Let's start with things we *can* change...

This link, look at Article 35 of the PRC Constitution. Freedom of speech is in their constitution:

http://english.people.com.cn/constitution/constitu tion.html

If you are in a censored location:

"Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration."

hey now! I'm insultified by the misrepresentationisms you been copulatin all up an' around my speechial deliverisations! And yes I can most certaintifically clothify my undeniable self in the mourning!!

Communism is thoroughly dead in China. The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more.

Right on the front page of the main official Chinese Newspaper website, People's Daily, you can find links clearly defining a socialist doctorine.

Down in the lower left corner you can find a link to Selected Works of Deng Xiaoping.

In the same area on the page you'll find a link to documents about the Communist Party and State Organs.

Perhaps the CP of China isn't the strictly Stalinist regime it once was. It hasn't ceased being a Communist Party, nor has it relinquished power.

Communism is thoroughly dead in China. The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more.

Right on the front page of the main official Chinese Newspaper website, People's Daily, you can find links clearly defining a socialist doctorine.

Down in the lower left corner you can find a link to Selected Works of Deng Xiaoping.

In the same area on the page you'll find a link to documents about the Communist Party and State Organs.

Perhaps the CP of China isn't the strictly Stalinist regime it once was. It hasn't ceased being a Communist Party, nor has it relinquished power.

Communism is thoroughly dead in China. The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more.

Right on the front page of the main official Chinese Newspaper website, People's Daily, you can find links clearly defining a socialist doctorine.

Down in the lower left corner you can find a link to Selected Works of Deng Xiaoping.

In the same area on the page you'll find a link to documents about the Communist Party and State Organs.

Perhaps the CP of China isn't the strictly Stalinist regime it once was. It hasn't ceased being a Communist Party, nor has it relinquished power.

In my opinion, one of China's greatest assets is its lack of current infrastructure. Imagine being able to design roads, dams, bridges, electricity generating plants, etc with 2005 technology without having to support an existing infrastructure.

We're going to hear more stories of bullet trains, monstrous dam projects and now advancements in nuclear energy production.

Good for China - start investing in them now.

I don't understand the RTFA posts. Sure the article does say that China is banning some illegal games, but history proves that China bans games and open discussion at will:
Football
Hearts of Iron
General BBC article

Microsoft was the first foreign company admitted into the China Software Industry Association. Microsoft Joins in China Software Industry Association (People's Daily Online, June 17, 2002)

China has brought intellectual property law into sych with it's major trading partners. Ministry of Science and Tecnlogy: Laws and Regulations

You do not maintain your position in world trade by ignoring the WTO. WTO China Updates

From: http://english.people.com.cn/200306/24/eng20030624 _118783.shtml

France currently contributes some 500 soldiers to the over 5,000-strong ISAF force which has been maintaining security and order in Kabul and surrounding areas since December 2001 under a United Nations mandate. France is also helping train the fledgling new Afghan National Army together with the United States, Thorette said. However, so far France has no troops in the over 115,000 US-led coalition troops deployed across the country to hunt down remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaeda network.

Mostly, their troops are glorified police officers. Their troops did not see anything like the action the US Special Forces saw in Afghanistan. In fact, most of their ground troops came into areas that had already been secured by the US.

Too bad the tariff was supposed to end in early 2005. Nothing like protectionism to get yourself by.

http://english.people.com.cn/200311/19/eng20031119 _128536.shtml
http://www.useu.be/Categories/Trade/Steel/

They care because the US is a major trading partner, they care because Microsoft is a significant corporate presence in China, giving China credibility with the WTO. Microsoft Joins in China Software Industry Association
They care because Microsoft spends $7 billion USD a year in China on basic research. Gates: Microsoft to expand China research

They care because the US is a major trading partner, they care because Microsoft is a significant corporate presence in China, giving China credibility with the WTO. Microsoft Joins in China Software Industry Association
They care because Microsoft spends $7 billion USD a year in China on basic research. Gates: Microsoft to expand China research

Well if that's true, then I would argue that that's all the more reason for them to be included in the protocol.

China and India?

If they're not producing the same amount of greenhouse gases than the USA or the EU, then adopting the Protocol should not be too big a deal for them, and they should be able to handle it.

What the hell are you talking about?

India has ratified Kyoto.

China has ratified Kyoto

Are you going to say now that you think the US should too? Or was all that talk about India and China a smokescreen?

That would be Charlie Brooker, comedian, right? You're aware of the concept of humour, right? OK, this isn't very funny, but it is clearly a joke.

I've managed to find a full copy of the column online - in China, home of free speech, amusingly enough.

For anyone not familiar with Charlie Brooker's brand of comedy, he's the creator of the (sadly resting) TV Go Home, author of numerous close-to-the-bone satirical articles in British computer gaming magazines, and is now working on various other projects. His Screen Burn column in the Guardian's Guide supplement is frequently hilarious, and he's suggested far, far worse things in it than the mere assassination of a president. I'm often amazed they can print it - this censored article was pretty tame by comparison....

Oh, and he's an utter geek too. He's allied with NTK, and I seem to recall reading something in the Guide by him extolling the virtues of downloading television programmes by Bittorrent. Yup.

Hey, if you want to go with a tax structure that produces economic booms, let's look at China. While the rest of the world was tanking a few years ago, China was experiencing double digit growth (or nearly double digit growth), and they continue to do so today.

Curiously enough, the chinese government is slashing income tax rates these days...

http://english.people.com.cn/200108/29/eng20010829 _78732.html
http://www.kpmg.de/library/english_language_public ations/pdf/China_Taxation-FAQ.pdf
http://www.chinabig.com/en/market/investment/taxat ion03.htm
etc.

Google on the subject if you're interested.

Of course, you might suggest that much of the growth has to do with an underemployed work force and prior lack of industralization, but hey! In 1945, there were a lot of people coming back to the USA from the war, plus all the women who now wanted to continue working on top of that (a large underemployed work force), plus there were a lot more farms then than there are now - we were industralized, but we became a LOT more so from the 1950s onward.

The point is - tax structures have to make sense for the environment in which they exist, for the environment that existed 50 years ago. I hate to say it, but: Duh.

Hopefully, the Olympics will bring some positive changes to China. One of the conditions of winning the Olympic bid was to make the Olympics 'green.' I'm not exactly sure what that's supposed to mean, but there have been fairly incredible improvements in the various levels of pollution in and around Beijing.

Also, China has undertaken construction of a 400 Megawatt wind plant that will be completed in time for the games. Apparantly, (according to Wired, at least) it will be the world's largest wind project.

So, for now at least, China is the polluted nightmare of the world, but it looks like they're trying to make some efforts to get pollution under control. //

Not exactly. Bourassa went to the states for treatment for cancer

So educating the next generation is "welfare", according to your misbegotten definition. And so is the fire and police departments, and the military (most people can't afford private police, never mind a private army). Or private water systems. All these are operated for the benefit of all the public - why not health care?

On the question of Cipro, Bayer admitted it was unable to meet emergency demand in the case of a bio-terrorist problem, and both Canada and the US had indicated that they would, in such a case, authorize other manufacturers to produce the drug. And it was 3 years ago - old news (October 19th, 2001). So much for "pirated" drugs.

What I'd like to know is, how many bricks are in the wall of china? The bricks used to repair and extend the wall during the Ming dynasty are "36 cm in length, 17 cm wide and 9 cm thick". The wall is about 6,700 km long; If the wall were composed of a single line of bricks it would be (my math could be off by an order of magnitude...) 18,611,111.11(bar) bricks long. The wall has an average height of 7.8 meters; a wall one brick thick would be 86.66(bar) bricks tall, or 1,612,962,962.962962(bar) bricks in total. That's a shitload of bricks! And I love the repeating decimals. Of course the whole wall isn't built in this fashion, the Qin wall bricks were made of rammed earth, in stages (like bricks, but made in place) about 10cm thick.

I'm not sure if the great wall is filled with un-rammed earth or not, but if it isn't, imagine how many bricks that must be, and do the math if you like. Even if the bricks are twice as large in every dimension, it's still an astounding number of them. (The average width of the wall is usually reported to be about 5 meters.)

Folks around the world have been producing antiparticles for quite some time. They're also created by natural processes, but don't last long in high matter density environments.

Maybe there is demand for something like this because of China's large male/female imbalance? Due to the Chinese government's one child policy, As of 2000, they had 116 boys born for every 100 girls born.

>So yes, in either case, the minimum wage in this state is $6.75, and it's not the highest in the country either.

That's if you include reliance on donations to keep your job (an employer used to paying $2.13 an hour is not suddenly going to drop their pants and pay you thrice that if business levels). I personally don't count those, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

>The minimum wage in China that you're referring to, is only for ONE CITY. A major city. Not even its suburbs

I can find more. It isn't hard. I have personal examples. My business partner once worked in a slave labour clothing factory. He made about 25 cents an hour a decade ago. Ask about. I think you'll find this isn't uncommon. Heck, even biased sources admit a Chinese worker makes $52.50 monthly (using your numbers). The facts I present are the truth, much as some feel hard pressed to admit.

>A typical Chinese workweek exceeds 60 hours and often will exceed 80

Then the typical Chinese company operates outside the law.

The PRC's Labour Law requires that the daily working hours of employees shall not exceed eight hours and the average working hours in a week shall not exceed 44 hours. Employees are also to have at least one rest day per week.

Sorry, you won't be successfull at convincing me the typical Chinese company operates above Chinese law. China is all about enforcement of its laws in any way necessary.

>But that aside, the fact remains that there are no child labor laws

False.

According to Article 15 of the Chinese Labour Law, employers are not allowed to hire underage workers - workers below the age of 16.

I know there are many groups that are spouting these lies. An infamous man once said, if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. Sadly, when it comes to China and labour laws, we've made that adage itself true.

>I'm not saying we should stop buying Chinese products totally. But we need to end these unfair (and illegal) trade and labor practices. We can't compete with that. No one can.

Who wants to? Nobody wants to go through the industrial revolution again. Everyone has to once. That's life. Nobody can appreciate the good without the bad.

I also agree, end the illegal labour practices. Encourage China to prosecute companies that refuse to abide by Chinese law. Then again, that should be obvious! :-)

>So if a factory worker in China makes 5 cents an hour (a high estimate),

It's far more than that. Minimum wage laws (where they exist in certain Chinese cities) specify about much more pay. For an example, Guangzhou city's minimum wage is $61.80 a month. Assuming the usual (5 days/7 hours/4 weeks) we get... $0.44 an hour. Assuming the worst (7 days/12 hours/4 weeks) we get... $0.18 an hour.

>and the minimum wage in my state is 6.75

If only! It's actually $2.13 per hour.

So, let's do the math:

US workers are paid about 4.84 times what Asian "slave" workers are paid for the same amount of work.

4.84 times $2.13 = $10.31 an hour.

In Luxembourg, the minimum wage is 46,275 LUF, or $1,445.15 monthly. Assuming 7 paid hours daily, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, that's $10.32 an hour.

So yes, as far as pay goes, America *should* look to Europeans like China looks to Americans. It should look like slave labour. Hopefully Europeans will despise American worker treatment so much that they will refuse to purchase any and all American goods. That should certainly fix the problem.

Oh wait. That would suck. Badly.

So why do we want to do this to China, again? I'm missing where China would benefit from us not buying their products.

Let's just hope they get this message across on the People's Daily: "Leave open port 25 to spammers and you will be executed as a dangerous COUNTER REVOLUTIONARY!"

Here and here are pictures of the CPU. It claims the performance has reached MIPS R5K which was introduced back to 1997 and was the core of SGI's O2. The highest clock speed is 266 MHz. It's basically a low power CPU targetd at both embedded and general purpose market in China.

MIPS is chosen because its widely available and I think most of the CPU designers are introduced to CPU design by David Patterson's "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach." They also have to pay license fee to MIPS for the instruction set.

Here and here are pictures of the CPU. It claims the performance has reached MIPS R5K which was introduced back to 1997 and was the core of SGI's O2. The highest clock speed is 266 MHz. It's basically a low power CPU targetd at both embedded and general purpose market in China.

MIPS is chosen because its widely available and I think most of the CPU designers are introduced to CPU design by David Patterson's "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach." They also have to pay license fee to MIPS for the instruction set.

They are being forced into most of the reforms they are implementing by the market and their own people - when the rice farmers that aren't allowed passports or even travel between cities inside China start becoming more educated and aware of the world outside, they get dangerous.

Eventually, they'll either have to become democratic, or face another revolution. Let's just hope that if the latter occurs, it's better than the last one.

Despite the best efforts of the unamerican fuckheads at Cisco and Yahoo (and AOL, Sun, Netscape) even the great chinese firewall isn't impenetrable. Here's a good link on the subject. So why not do unto them as they do unto us - and hack and/or ddos sensitive chinese sites? Show 'em that Americans aren't as lazy and incompetent as they think we are, at least as far as hackers are concerned. Here's a link to get you started - the official state propoga^H^H^H^H^H^H^H paper The People's Daily, chinese edition.