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To me, it looks like Microsoft continued its support for PlaysForSure after creating Zune. MTV is the one who dropped Microsoft/PlaysForSure. MTV may have gotten a better deal from Real Networks and saw a larger market from the #1 subscription service (Rhapsody), all those Verizon phones, and all those Rhapsody-compatible devices from companies like iRiver and Sandisk.

Also, why aren't they also outlawing the Zune since it also has proprietary DRM that isn't licensed to anyone??

Ummm, there are 22 manufacturers using that format. I don't see foisting. I see freely licensing. Now, Apple is foisting.

PlaysForSure is a new logo program from Microsoft®. The PlaysForSure logo assures consumers that their digital media purchases will play back on their digital media device every time.

There really is no gripe here. There are a wide number of players that can still be purchased that handle PlaysForSure tracks. Microsoft just decided that the player they are launching would not support older PlaysForSure content. But it's not like you would be left high-and-dry. As of today, there are 134 different players from 22 different manufacturers (http://www.playsforsure.com/FindPortableDevices.a spx) that you could buy to play PlaysForSure tracks. Contrast that with what happens if your iPod dies. Apple has a monopoly on the ability to play iTunes-purchased content. Down the road, as people build large collections, it wouldn't shock me if Apple charged a premium for players that could play older content - and there would be nowhere else to turn.

Owning a 360 I've got to say that I look forward to a portable device from Microsoft. The 360 is showing to be a great network device and the potential it has makes me salivate. PS3 looks good too, from what I can see, and the PSP is very nice; options are always good though. Many services are already lined up with PlayForSure so there is content already.

Don't get confused, you will pay for 99% of the content. Don't think that any of these devices with DRM free - don't even look at one if that is your deal. Really, they are putting that upfront as well. Still, there are all kind of subscription services that do and will take advantage of Microsoft's size.

I for one welcome our new, seamless content delivery overlords!

Not really, but it is exciting because we've been asking for this for ages. Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo? are in the game. I like Microsoft's model the best though: they are allowing different content providers to use their devices and allowing other hardware manufactures to use their DRM. It makes Microsoft have to produce the best hardware (we shall see) and gives the consumer the choice of content providers. Apple gives you no choices (more are coming) and Sony likely will try to corner the market on hardware (and they own a few content companies).

Provide these devices and keep the DRM off of our computers. Then I'll be happy.

No, they're WMA. From the official site:

What digital media formats work with PlaysForSure?
PlaysForSure currently works with the Windows Media Format (WMA, WMV).

I don't know of any music stores that use protected MP3s, since the MP3 spec doesn't include DRM. I think one of Audible's formats might be based on MP3.

(Agreed about marketing talk, heh.)

>If iPod sales slip below a magic number of
>saturation, say 40%, Apple WILL open
>Fairplay and go from there.

Myself, I hope they never do. Nor do I hope Microsoft's Urge starts supporting either FairPlay or iPods.

As someone who has spent consierable effort moving my music collection to MP3s, I'm now worried about the longevity of the format. Will I still be able to play MP3s 40 years from now?

As long as there are least two competing formats, Apple's and everyone else's (read: Playsfersure ), then MP3 will remain the only universal song format. People will rip to it to ensure device compatability and device makers will include it to make sure people actually buy their portable music players. Having these giants fight over who gets to offer the dominant media format certainly does encourage the vendor-neutral choice.

Subscription-based music is the way to go. This, combined with the Windows "Plays for Sure" initiative will ultimately give MS the upper hand over Apple in the music arena, unless Apple comes out with a subscription option.

I have a subscription to Yahoo Music Unlimited and I've found it is definitely worth the $60/year. Right now I've got 744 songs in my collection, which if purchased at iTunes would cost more than 12 years of subscription fees (assuming the price doesn't go up). I can license 3 computers to access my subscription, so I've got it set up on my home computer, my work computer, and my laptop. The service keeps them in sync so if I add music at home, it gets downloaded at work next time I start the service. Since I download the music to my computer, if the network goes down I can still play music.

If I want to burn CDs I can buy tracks for $0.79. But I haven't needed to do that. I have a Creative Zen Micro to carry around. What's really nice is the Roku SoundBridge is compatible with the service. I've got that hooked into the home theater system (and our wireless network) and I can access my complete music collection (even ripped music) using a remote control.

Ok, I realize this sounds like a commercial for the service. It's not...but I'm very happy with it and think that $60/year is a steal. I used to search the assorted P2P networks but my time has value too and it just wasn't worth it to search for and download music, only to find that I've picked up a bunch of bad tracks (P2P is still great for porn though).

So based on my experience with Yahoo Music Unlimited I think that despite its name Urge will be successful and combined with MS's marketing power may turn out to be an iTunes...well, not killer but maybe wounder.

but I don't think you're gonna like it.

How do you then ensure that the music and player you buy today will not be incompatible with your player, online store or the OS?

In a Microsoft world, you just make sure to look for the Plays for Sure logo on everything you buy! Then you can sleep safe and sound at night knowing that your music can be played anywhere and anytime.

Or you could just refuse to buy DRM'ed crap. That works too.

If you're going the Microsoft route this is a pretty good site for checking out the players/services available.

I'm so glad the Playsforsure campaign is finally biting Microsoft and all its WMV compatible chums in the ass.

Apple has never made a big deal about its DRM not being able to play on Windows Media compatible players (for obvious reasons), yet Microsoft - with the usual giant helping of arrogance - did exactly the opposite by gathering everyone but Apple together and running this campaign.

I'm actually surprised they're still running it because that little Playsforsure sticker is fast becoming the kiss of death when it comes to choosing a media player!

Check the site again when it's updated, because the Dell Ditty is "playsforsure" compatible.

Why do Apple fans think the iTunes/iPod integration is so much better than the integration of Windows Media Player and any device that supports playsforsure (like the Dell Ditty).

It's really freakin' easy to buy songs from or subscribe to MSN Music, Napster, Musicmatch, et al. It's really freakin' easy to synch your music using Windows Media Player. Believe it or not, some people actually dislike the iTunes app.

One thing that sets this apart from many other flash players is the line "Compatible with Napster to Go". According to http://www.playsforsure.com/, no existing portable player under $199 (Dell's Pocket DJ) supports such unlimited subscription services.
If this were an advertising truth, it would seem like a huge bonus for some.

"[When you see the Playsforsure logo] you know the two will work together with a no hassle"

Everything is there for dominance. The hardware is cheaper and works great. Music publishers, such as the new Napster, have lined up with seemingly cheaper deals. They even have all you can eat plans. Vendors have been enticed to give away hardware and music to "influential" demographic target groups. And of course, there's the desktop monopoly which can be exploited to screw the competition's software and which comes with Windoze Media Player. It should be like Office or IE all over again.

The problem is that Microsoft sucks. The music goes away, from your computer and your device if you quit paying your subscription. You can't copy the files, and the first brush with the full power of DRM is truly shocking to users. "It's like someone else is in my computer," is how a fellow student described it to my yesterday. The reputation of Windows Media Player and Windows itself could not be lower and both have earned it with continued advertising assaults both intended and exploit driven. The result is something that's painful to use and liable to lose all of your music at any moment. The same cheap hardware works very nicely with Free software. I use my cheap little usbfs Walmart mp3 player with KDE software and it's an awesome, network aware solution that blows both DRM schemes out of the water.

Microsoft's failure to make entertainment systems that work is a tremendous opportunity. Everyone wants their computer to play music and movies without hassle and no one is ready to have textbooks and reference materials come the Microsoft way. Apple is using this screw up to crack the desktop monopoly. Ipod is the most popular music player even on Microsoft's campus, ha ha ha. You can bet that more than a few of them have bought Apple computers too. The free software community can also greatly benefit. If you know someone who's about to buy a $500 mini mac or $200 mp3 player, give them a Mepis CD and show them how they can use their current hardware and music collection without surrendering control of their digital future to anyone.

They want to be the bosses of audio-DRM (well, all DRM) and thus they created the Plays For Sure initiative http://www.playsforsure.com/. This group, led by Microsoft, works to try to stop the dominance of the iPod. This would benefit MS by allowing them to own (or even be a significant player in) the audio DRM market and would benefit the makes of the music players by allowing them to sell more hardware.

So, the devices doing the denting are the ones on that page. That is, those backed by Microsoft.

I like the way that Windows Media Player 10 seems to have built-in 'buy music' links to all the online music stores except iTunes...

First, WMP10 is not Longhorn-specific. It's out (has been out for a while). Second, the links to music stores have been there for a while too (not some Longhorn conspiracy). Third, they don't link to all online stores. For example, Rhapsody is not there. Finally, the linked stores are part of the Plays For Sure program. iTunes and Rhapsody are not, which makes sense -- they don't "play for sure" in WMP (there are different codecs you can install that will make them work with WMP, but they don't work out of the box). So, why would Microsoft link to stores where the music you buy can't be played in their music player?

The music store integration with WMP is very unobtrusive. It defaults to MSN Music (naturally), so if you didn't know any better you'd just think there's an MSN butterfly icon on the screen because MSN == Microsoft. You can use the stores if you want to, and you can totally ignore them if you don't. WMP will never navigate you to one of the stores unless you tell it to (by clicking one of the stores in the drop-down).

Longhorn looks better than the garish XP, at least. But is it anything more than a re-skinned update?

Well, there is Avalon and Indigo, part of that whole WinFX thing (which will be available for XP). Aside from that, sure, Longhorn is just the next revision of the operating system that started with NT 4 (and earlier, but NT 4 was a fairly large change from 3.x). In that sense, yes it's just a reskinned update of XP. The question is, how big is the update?

Not all players support the "subscription" model required for the $5 a month thing. That list is pretty sparse at the moment with the lowest cost of entry for a portable being around $200.

All the cheap WMA capable players can play the permanently downloaded songs you purchase from Yahoo's store but not the unlimited download service.

Actually, there is an initative to make things play on most mp3-players. It's called http://www.playsforsure.com/ Plays for Sure and is Microsoft's plan to rule the world of mp3-players.

It is supported by a lot of manufacturers, the only problem is that most mp3-players sold are iPods who will probably never ever support wma.

And before you bash me, my next mp3-player will also be an iPod :)

Come on everybody! Let's all go here and make some search for "Apple" or "ipod". Let's screw their stats! :)

You can match logos. When you see it on a device and on an online store you know the two will work together with a no hassle. It just works!

Plus, they didn't capitalize each word of It Just Works (tm) or add the trademark symbol.

Theres an hyperlink to M$ PlayforSure.com music business lobby.

You can search for "iPod", but you won't get what you were expecting...

Is this legal in the US? They're using the well-known trademarked name to divert people to something else...

There are a couple of things they missed, like the fact that flash-based players are often smaller than hard-disk based players.

I don't like their song stats (using 64kbps WMA only), but the truth is that most people have crappy headphones and won't notice a difference anyway.

What I do think is misleading is the bit about "not getting locked into an online store". They're suggesting that if you buy the wrong player, you'll be stuck with a single source of music, which is simply not true. It's the other way around. Stores that use DRM will lock you into buying players that support the same type of DRM. (You can always make a DRM-free copy the hard way, but this is beyond most people.) It's also worth noting that Microsoft's website doesn't say whether or not any of the players they recommend support MP3. ;)

As an aside, has anyone seen an MP3 player (flash or not) that can be programmed to record radio programs at a specified time? I think that a time-shifting function would be a great feature for people who listen to NPR, talk radio, or the late-night lunatic fringe. Of course, it would also need an AM tuner. (And yes, I've seen the Radio Shark, but it's not portable!)

What kind of copy protection will be used? Is this really just a scheme to prevent people from playing with duped cds, or installing a game and passing the cd on to a friend?

No! Hahahah, we'd never do anything like that.

Thanks for the link. That site is good for a laugh.

Here's another amusing bit from the top right of the main page:
"Choose your music. Choose your device. Know it's going to work. When your device and music service are compatible with each other, all you have to do is choose the music that's compatible with you. Look for the PlaysForSure logo..."

All I have to do is choose the right device and the right music service, huh? And I do that by looking for the logo?

That's simple enough.

(There is no step 3.)

No, they are clearly supposed to go out and get one of the players that supports PlaysForSure, Microsoft's DRM FUD scheme. Motto: "Look for the PlaysForSure logo on Windowsbased Media Connect devices. Match it to the PlaysForSure logo on the hottest online music stores and you'll know the music will play for sure."

Note that the PlaysForSure site apparently is down, "An application error occurred on the server." Way to go, Microsoft!

Most "ipod killers", are MSFT players.

Your are teh lamest AC on slashdot.

It seems like Playforsure http://www.playsforsure.com/Default.aspx is good...
but not good enough for Dogfooding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_one's_own_dog_foo d

...supports Microsoft DRM protected files (WMV, WMA)...

Just wonder, does Archos do it with the blessing of Microsoft (and does it bare the PlaysForSure logo)? Will it become incompatible when MS tweaked the implementation?

If it's done via reverse-engineering, wouldn't that put Archos up for DMCA lawsuits? Also, what it means for MS that its DRM system is publicly hacked?

I've heard some companies have licensed to port Windows Media to Linux but couldn't remember MS approving the DRM stuff.

Or you can pay a monthly fee and fill the device with music (even 40GB devices).

Currently there are 2 services that offer this subscription service:
- f.y.e. Download Zone
- Napster To Go

Both are accessible from Windows Media Player 10 from the service selector (combo-box on the right top corner). I think the price for the portable subscription is 15$ per month.

Currently the devices that are compatible are:
- Creative Zen PMC
- Samsung YH-999 PMC (both these support video and pictures as well
- iRiver H320 and H340
- Audiovox SMT5600 smartphone (i love this phone)

More devices to come. Check the www.playsforsure.com site for more compatibility info.

Seamless integration?
Have a look here at the compatible music stores. It is drag and drop comptible with Windows Explorer and is Microsoft "Plays For Sure" compatible.

Seamless integration?
Have a look here at the compatible music stores. It is drag and drop comptible with Windows Explorer and is Microsoft "Plays For Sure" compatible.