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Creative Zen Micro Ships Today
SpaFF writes "Today Amazon started shipping the shipping the Zen Micro, Creative's answer to the Ipod-mini and one of several touted 'ipod-killers' due out for the holiday season. Sporting 5GB of space, a form-factor similar to the Ipod-mini, built-in FM radio, and a REMOVABLE battery, the Zen Micro looks quite promising. Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux?"
"Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux?"
No. I just heard about it now.
that iPods are so powerful is that it's coupled with the Apple music store. The seamless intergration between reasonable prices and DMR and synching with the iPod is hard to beat. Do any of the new iPod killers have comparable connections to music management software/store? My old MP3 player required MusicMatch, which sucked.
I am completely mesmerized by the mesmerizing blue backlight glow.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
More importantly, does it work with OggVorbis? Apparently not. :-(
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
...at PCMag
Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux?
If it did support linux, maybe it also would supports OGG. This would be an appreciated feature. This review says nothing about OGG it's support for OGG. Anyone know if it actually does support it?
Not as bad as the mini Dell DJ, but part of the appeal of the iPod is, the simple and minimal appearance. This thing looks like a sci-fi explosion, like most MP3 players these days.
The battery life is a bit worse, too.
Which button do I press to make a selection?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
First it was all the viral marketing. Now we're just getting straight up ads? With referral links to benefit the poster? What happened Slashdot?
1) FM radio? That will hardly drive sales...if there was anything to listen to on FM, XM and Sirius wouldn't have a business plan.
2) Removable battery? That is what is supposed to kill the iPod? Huhn? How about UI? Is that any good? How do I sync it to my music Library? Historically Creative sucks at this kind of thing...
3) Sure isn't competing on price.
Yes I know it's not the same product. :)
I do want to report that my Nomad Zen Xtra Jukebox works great with Linux if you use the the gnomad2 program.
Gnomad might work just as well with this product.
There's such a thing as an iPod mini you know...
All these different portable players are great, but how do we deal with our libraries? My library is fully managed by iTunes, but is primarily MP3 (I don't import using AAC).
If each of these comes out expecting people to use their software, how is that good? With 30GB of music its worth it to me to NOT mess with moving my library to another software package.
I think choice is great, and I think this looks like a snazzy product, but I think companies have to consider the inertia involved with moving a library, especially if the expectation is to convert it to a new format. What is that worth, and does Apple offer an SDK for iTunes?
This is made to compete with the iPod Mini, which only has 4Gb of storage space...so it's actually larger in terms of storage space. Both products cost $250 and come in similar sizes.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
I think iPod mini killer may have been more appropriate.
No OGG support. Again. Fuck it. Wake up Creative!
None of Creative's players work well (or much at all) with Linux. Over the years, there have been a couple of OSS attempts, but none with the help of the folks at Creative.
My emailed pleadings/complaints to Creative have always been answered with something to the effect of "We don't support Linux, we don't care to put in the resources, and we won't share the inner workings with you. Thanks for considering our product."
Needless to say, I no longer consider them a company worth supporting.
'ARRGH! Pirate Designers of the Internet, we be!'
you forgot the most important part, at least to quasi-musicians like myself who are looking for an easy way to record band practices without having to set up my laptop- line-in recording! unlike the ipod's intentionally crippled recording features, the zen micro looks like it will record to any bitrate of mp3. i know people who are still buying minidisc recorders for this purpose at well over $200 / pop-- with the zen micro 512MB costing around $120 (last I checked) I am SERIOUSLY tempted to pick one up even though I already own a 40GB ipod!
iPod Mini killer. Minis have 4Gig, this has 5Gig.
I have an original iPod, the 5Gig model. At the time, it was sold as 1000 songs in your pocket. I can't help noticing that this same device is advertising 2,500 songs. So, err...bit rate? I think they're claiming a little too much for themselves.
To be fair, at 128kbps MP3 VBR I got more than 1k tracks on mine. But the 1k is realistic if you use 192 MP3 or AAC at 160.
The Zen thing looks ugly, but it does have an FM radio. I do wish Apple would do that instead of mucking about with photos. It's an audio device first - please concentrate on the audio.
Cheers,
Ian
REMOVABLE, rechargable battery.
It'd be cool to have two batteries on a long bike trip and just be able to pop in a fresh one when the first one died.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
I for one am tired of the pharse "iPod killer". The iPod is entrenched to the point that it is going to take more than a superior product to unseat it. It's going to take a strong marketing campaign, and tight integration with a popular download service. I can't speak to the latter (since I own an iPod and use the iTMS), but I do know that I don't recall ever seeing a TV commercial or even many print ads for a non iPod music player.
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
To put my comment into perspective.
The current age of portable music devices and Apple's position at the moment resembles the early Windows age and PCs.
Apple had the best goods and they got stomped in the end. They got stomped because the other guys were available in more configurations, better pricing, and had greater overall compatibilities.
I use an iPod and I have spent a good share of money on iTMS but to discount new players because they cannot use iTMS isn't fair let alone brite.
What keeps me using my iPod is the fact it is very easy to use as a hard drive (3rd gen here). Now comes a player with features many of the iPod owners have been asking for and what do people do? Dis it for not being an iPod.
Well damn, I would have much prefered a swappable battery or FM over the ability to show pictures. If I want to view my pictures on a teeny tiny screen I would leave them on the camera.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
it's competing with the mini, not the standard ipod. so it has 25% more storage space
I think the Creative player's battery is "removable" in the sense that you just pop a little cover open and the battery comes out. The iPod battery is "removable" in the same sense that my internal organs are "removable."
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Comapred to the Ipod mini it looks like a $5 calculator.
The buttons look like they are those nasty indented clicky bubbles under sticky-back plastic that were all the rage about 10 years ago, and the display looks very basic and uninspired.
The form-factor looks more bulky too.
Is that you can rip out the DRM. I refuse to buy anything that has DRM such that if the company goes under I'm stuck.
I already had one machine die and when I contacted Apple to have it removed they made it sound like it was a big deal to take it off my approved list. Just imagine what will happen in 10 years when this technology is old. Whats going to happen? Will Apple be around?
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
1) FM radio? That will hardly drive sales...if there was anything to listen to on FM, XM and Sirius wouldn't have a business plan.
What, the device is supposed to have an XM receiver?
2) Removable battery? That is what is supposed to kill the iPod? Huhn?
Personally, due to the number of devices that I have had batteries go in (cameras and cell phones) I would never buy an iPod for fear of the battery issues. Replacing the battery is a big factor for me.
Every "iPod killer" has ended up in a ditch at the side of the road. Incremental feature advances just aren't going to do it. The iPod family are a de facto standard, and while some people might get individually excited about another player, whether a Rio, Creative, or Sony, the fact that everything is being compared to the iPod means that Apple is the one who sets the tone, sets the mindshare standard, and racks up the sales.
Something would have to have twice the features at half the price with considerably more 'style' to "kill" the iPod. Everything out there now maxxes out at kicking iPod's shins.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Anyone else find it slightly ironic that the claimed number of songs that 5GB of storage can hold is growing? For instance, the Zen Micro claims to hold 2,500 songs on its drive. However, wasn't the original 5 gig iPod advertised as being able to hold "1000 songs in your pocket"? Is 5 gigs of capacity growing, or are our standards for music quality shrinking?
From your own link:
Any more questions?
But all in all, looks to be a very nice device - let's see what the general public thinks.
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
The sparse info on the linked page doesn't seem to offer much in terms of supported formats. MP3 and WMA seem to be there, but what else?
I know it's just a pipe dream, but I'd like to see at least a couple vendors release a sdk that could let users develop their own plugins. Take a page out of the book of id, a modable system allows others to create content for your system, helping to make it all the more popular.
I wonder why the 20gig version costs less than the 5gig version. I would rather buy a unit with 4 times the storage and pay $12 less than the 5gig unit.
I purchased a Nomad Jukebox back in the day (6GB), the Nomad requried a proprietary software to copy songs to the device. I lost the CD with the software on it, Creative does not offer a downloadable version of the software on their website. Contacting customer support does not help either as they will not send you the software.
I now have a $300 paperweight. Maybe their practices have changed, but the experience has burned me badly. I will never purchase Creative again. I highly suggest to anyone considering their new product (or any product of theirs for that matter) that you make sure you can get into the device without proprietary software before making a purchase.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
That is not a strength. The Apple music files are overpriced (doubled that of some competitors), and are crippled to make it hard to play them (I know, the others do that to). If I ever get a high-storage-volume digitial music player, it will be based on the cost and features of the unit itself. Besides, you can play Apple music store files on other machines.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Ooops, almost forgot to mention the review of the device. There is a good comparison of how much better it works under Linux than Windoze. See the review and comparison here: http://businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_45/b39 07083_mz054.htm/
If the headphones socket will break for this one too.
They are rivaling the iPod Mini. Creative and others have realized that the average consumer doesn't need to carry around more than 1000 songs per day, or week, or month. So they opted for smaller size, with focus on style and features. The 5GB will become obsolete once people decide to emulate walking computers by caryying their data all over the place, the way we do laptops.
The large iPods are meant for us hard-core music lovers, but are too bulky in some people's opinion.
[Please sign here]
it says so right on the specs - how can they lose?
They'll sell one to every kiddie with a modded Civic so it'll match the resst of the blue stuff that makes their cars go faster.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Well it has got 25% more storage space than the iPod mini.
OTOH the iPod mini was released aeons ago in comparison. You'd hope that in the 10 or so months since it was released that capacities would go up and competitors would be able to catch up.
What's more interesting is what Apple's next update to the iPod mini will bring.
I think that Apple still have style on their side, and ease of use. The Zen Micro will have a few more features however (radio and stuff). Unfortunately for them, it won't have the name, and 4GB vs 5GB isn't an amazing difference.
+5, Schadenfreud.
I wonder how many linux fanboys are going to buy one of these based solely on your "advice" (which contradicts the system requirements, btw), anonymous coward. Good work!
So killer that they even nicked the iPod mini's feature of being available in different colours. But they have it in MORE colours than the mini so it HAD to be better right?
These guys need to learn to be better than Apple, not just clone their product and sell it cheaper ffs.
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Does anyone know if this thing will work with Linux? But can it run Half-Life 2?
1) I know this is Slashdot, but if you've ever been to a gym where they have TVs in front of the cardio machines, they broadcast the sound on low powered FM transmitters. FM is something that is quite useful to us geeks that work out.
2) A removable battery is great for travelling when you don't always have easy access to electricity. Just pop out one battery and put another one in. This feature alone has kept me from buying an iPod.
3) That's true so far.
If most companies don't support linux when creating their products, why should Creative? Is the market there?
I mean, it's great that iRiver pays attention and try to reach out to the most customers possible but creative, like most other companies making "ipod killers", just care about windows cause it's a no brainer that the market is there.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=128628&cid=107 34831
I wish moderators would RTFA before blindly moderating things informative.
Hey, if it isn't true, why would the moderators mod me up as +3 Informative? Think about it, why wouldn't they support Linux? Everyone is switching from Windows to Linux now. More information about that here: http://businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_45/b39 07083_mz054.htm/
The serious design flaw involving the battery is one major thing that keeps me away from the iPod. Anything where there is a not-insignificant risk of destroying the unit just by changing the battery (see the Popular Science article) has a problem. It is odd that Apple, a company known for "ease of use" overlooked the easy-to-use standard sliding battery hatch that has been around for decades.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
did anyone read the fine print at the bottom??
4 requires microsoft outlook
???? what the hell is that crap??!!
creative muvo nomad -- flash based mp3 player -- is just a usb-storage device. It works perfectly with linux, except for firmware upgrades
Someday, things like that will be true... sigh...
I like that they made it available in so many diferent colors. That will definately be a selling-point. However, I'm surprised this one isn't also flash memory, or is that too heavy for 5GB? I'm considering complementing this with my iPod becuase it has radio, and sometimes my apetite is only satisfied with AM radio.
[Please sign here]
I think it took me all of 10 minutes to change battery in my ipod, using just tools included within replacement kit (from Other World Computing IIRC).
And if I didn't want to do it myself, Apple would've done it happily enough (but would have charged twice as much for bit less powerful battery.. but I digress).
-- pending
I can honestly respond with this: the only reason I have not purchased an iPod mini is the lack of a removable battery. So, yeah, for me PERSONALLY, it's a mini iPod killer.
Actually linux does support it. All you have to do is write the driver!
"I have an original iPod, the 5Gig model. At the time, it was sold as 1000 songs in your pocket. I can't help noticing that this same device is advertising 2,500 songs. So, err...bit rate? I think they're claiming a little too much for themselves."
Yes, it's the bit rate. According to the article:
"2500 songs at 64kbps WMA. 1250 songs at 128kbps MP3. 1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes. Available capacity will be less. Reported capacity will vary."
I think 2500 songs isn't enough. Encode them at 32kbps and get 5000. Better yet, encode them at 16kbps and get 10000! Or, if you want to be extreme, encode them at 1kbps and get 160,000 songs on your device! Wow!
They have all the older versions of the Creative software, back to Playcenter 2.x, drivers, and lots of other goodies.
And FWIW, I would suspect the new player will work with Gnomad, the free Nomad software for Linux.
Unless you were just wanting to rant on Creative for a while...
No sig, sorry.
Now, if it supports OGG, I will finally have a portable music player I am willing to spend money on (besides my laptop).
Why would you pay $250 for this? I paid $230 for my Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Extra, which has 6 times the storage space.
Personally, due to the number of devices that I have had batteries go in (cameras and cell phones) I would never buy an iPod for fear of the battery issues.
Personally, the "iPod batteries die" story doesn't match my experience. I have two original 5Gb iPods, purchased in December 2001, which are still doing fine (6 hours on one, 5 on the other).
Sure, the batteries will die eventually. But to be honest they're as likely to end their life due to being stolen/dropped/soaked/etc like any other piece of consumer electronics you carry around with you whenever you leave the house.
Nae bother
But it doesn't have a camera! I thought every audio device had to have a camera? or at least a battery-devouring, expensive color display?
See what I've been reading.
Hey, relax! If they're too stupid to follow the link and find out it's bogus, AND too stupid to look at the product requirements, they probably won't even read my post. The gig is not up yet.
"This product is not made by Apple, so by definition it sucks."
I am waiting for a company to have the balls to make a mp3 or ogg or other replacement for my Sony Minidisc recorder or my Sony portable DAT recorder.
I have been through 3 minidisc recorders they can not be beat for ultra portable and covert recording.
Example, I recorded the Tragically Hip concert last holloween. (Yes it was allowed, hell people had camcorders and SLR cameras) and produced a live recording that is 20 times better than anything I could buy. I also record ambient things. The last Michigan/MSU game gave me phenominal crowd recordings.
Why doesn anyone make an iPOD type device that will record in STEREO with manual level adjustment and both line in and mic in?
THAT would be an Ipod Killer.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
>But iTMS *is* the dominant legal music download store at the moment
No-one ouside the apple fanbase has ever heard of iTMS, please keep drinking the apple juice *hic*, but no-one else in he world is falling for this.
I read... The mini-organizer consists of a calendar, an address book and a to-do-list (4)... which is cool!
Then down at the bottom I read... (4) Requires Microsoft Outlook.
Really nice of them to make it require something like MS LookOut. This is one of those rare situations where I'd actaully prefer some 3rd party application. Most people will have it plugged in when they check mail so it'll recharge. Next we'll have yet another outlook virus, but this one uploads 100's Gwar MP3's.
Exactly my point. And since everyone in the world is a programmer and has a bunch of free time like me, proper support should be out real soon now. Maybe I should have clarified my original post. When I meant "supported" I meant I only had to spend 210 hours writing and debugging the software under Ubuntu. However, now it works for me (well 40% of the time anyway, the OGG playback skips but only every 6 seconds).
I'll put my source code on sourceforge.net where I am sure a bunch of quality software developers will pick it up and maintain it.
These soldiers are losing their lives not just for Iraq, but also for you and me.
No, actually they died for nothing.
Okay, someone explain to me why this seems either redundant or a troll? The article asked a question, no one else had answered it, so I did.
I don't normally bitch about moderation, but really, WFT? I didn't say anything bad about Apple, or discuss politics. I responded to a question the original poster could have answered himself, had he bothered reading the text at the very link he gave!
Sad, people.
You're so far off topic it scares me
To quote the Zen Micro site:
2500 songs at 64kbps WMA. 1250 songs at 128kbps MP3. 1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes. Available capacity will be less. Reported capacity will vary.
be quiet, you know that insulting the apple slacky's isn't allowed on /.
Repeat after me;
Apple is great
Apple is great
Apple rules us all.
Who needs elections?
I had the exact same problem with an HP camera. They wanted something like $30 for the software at the time! This was before XP.
new batteries for ipod are found very easily on the web for 50 bucks.
if a person is honestly giving up on the phenomenal connectivity, amazing and simple interface, the greatest digital music store on the planet, and the fact its the best looking mp3 player bar none. Just because of a lack of a removable battery then that person is just plain foolish. IMO.
and by foolish i mean stupid.
Actually, the lack of FM radio capability is one of the things that is keeping me from buying any of the iPods and is making me consider the iRivers. Radio in the US may suck, but FM in the UK has delights such as Radio 4 and other regional stations.
A decent MP3 player with a DAB radio facility would rock:-)
I'll put my source code on sourceforge.net where I am sure a bunch of quality software developers will pick it up and maintain it
No thanks. It's already there.
Please mod the parent down, it's a troll.
I recently got a Creative Zen Touch (a present from my company; if I had to choose it'd be an iPod), and I've already spent an unsuccesfull day getting it to work under linux. There is no way that you would mount this device, since it is NOT an USB mass storage device but uses proprietary Creative protocols.
There is one open-source project (Gnomad2) that claims to do the job, but I haven't been able to get that working. If I had the C skills and the time, I would try writing a LUFS plugin. For now, I'm pondering buying an USB2 card, because gnomad2 refuses to work with usb1.1 it seems.
--
If code was hard to write, it should be hard to read
I aosp tried it and Ubunto works fine as well as my toaster.
I feel really good cince using ubuntu.. U loce ubuntio..
we all must USE UBUNTU LINUX!!!!!
back to reality.
it does NOT work with linux. you are a liar and a jerk siimply trying to get the name of a substandard Linux distro out on the mainstream.
"the Zen Micro, Creative's answer to the Ipod-mini"
Read much?
Linux support for most creative mp3 players is available under linux. Try using libnjb and gnomad2. They are available at libnjb.sourceforge.net and gnomad2.sourceforge.net. I've never heard of anyone being unhappy with a creative mp3 player and linux (and until the ipod most of my friends had creative mp3 players)
We have support for all other Creative jukeboxen (original, 2, 3, Zen, NX, Xtra and the OEM:ed Dell DJ) in libnjb working with e.g. gnomad2 for Linux (and BSD) or XNJB for Mac OS X. If the protocol hasn't changed substantially it can be easily supported.
If it is USB mass storage compliant it will work out of the box. All USB mass storage devices (MuVO^2 etc.) works with the native kernel driver.
What I've heard is that it only use mass storage for regular files though, not music content. There are rumors however that this beast use or can be made to use the Microsoft Media Transfer Protocol (also used by Creative Zen Media Center). MTP will talk over TCP/IP over an Microsoft RNDIS link. (Which is supported by the Linux kernel.)
Linu Walleij author of gnomad2 and parts of libnjb.
If it's seen as a dumb USB storage, il will work on linux, regardless of the requirements.
My Finepix camera requires some version of windows, and nevertheless works like a charm with linux out of the box.
So I believe the question stands.
In my opinion, Scientology is a cult you should avoid.
Even mobile phones have FM these days :)
DAB seems pretty much dead (local stores have either stopped selling it or have it in the 'managers specials' at 80% off)... however if they could put one in a 5GB MP3/OGG player and keep the total price around the £100-£150 mark it would be a good product.
actually... I have the Creative Zen Nomad (the 40 gig version of this) and it was only $250 and I love the thing... the interface isn't quite that of the iPod.... but for the price reduction its great.... the interface software isnt bad at all either....
If you're like me, you've purchased over 100 of them, despite the fact that they cost >$10 each. I didn't buy them all at once, but if you look at the aggregate cost, it is pretty staggering.
Anyway, we have a 5G iPod from the first batch Apple released, and it's mostly full of dharma teachings, with a few albums, most of which I ripped from my CD collection. So it's actually pretty easy to fill these things up. I don't know how many people are using them to store Dharma teachings, but I can say that in my Dharma group there are a *ton* of iPods, despite the fact that most of us aren't exactly rolling in it.
Seamless integration?
Have a look here at the compatible music stores. It is drag and drop comptible with Windows Explorer and is Microsoft "Plays For Sure" compatible.
Well, the stated requirement doesn't mean anything. My Creative player (Muvo 2) works without any problems under Linux, even though Windows is "required". So your initial comment was not fair to the question asked.
I checked the FAQ's they had at Creative, and one of the questions was: Can I jog with my Nomad?, and the answer was: No, but you can take long leisurely walks with it.....
So I got an iPod instead, and except for Job's habit of keeping everything a secret: like the DRM (which Real reversed-engineered - thank god for sleazy companies...), I'm pretty happy with it.
I know this is going up against the mini-pod, but if this thing is as FRAGILE as the older disk based nomads, i'd stay away... Besides, you can get a a set of headphones with a built-in fm radio for like a buck -http://www.wholesaledirectonline.com/ec215.html uhoh- this poor guys gonna get /.ed now...
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
I'm glad to finally see a resemblance of competition in the mp3 player market, even if the consensus is the iPod is still marginally better. If nothing else, it'll keep Apple on their toes and drive more innovation.
You gotta wonder how long of a lifespan the dedicated mp3 player will have though, as memory prices drop and other devices such as mobile phones start incorporating mp3 functionality for nearly free.
I think there will always be a market for dedicated mp3 players- especially as their prices and sizes continue to shrink (who wants to strap their treo to their arm when they go jogging?), but they manufacturers need to think about what they can do to make them more useful while they wait for technology (MRAM) to allow for sweeter hardware. Apple's photo iPod is a step in the right direction, even if it is considered a failure- next gen players better have more wizbang.
Sorry, Gnomad2 doesn't work with this device under Ubuntu, tried that (someone else confirmed that on another slashdot post but don't know if they were using Ubuntu), only earlier devices work because Creative changed the protocols. My code has only been tested under Ubuntu though, since Ubuntu is my development platform of choice. I will setup a sourceforge project called Ubunomad (self descriptive huh) where I will dump my code.
Creative seems to imply it does behave as a mass storage device:
"Functions as an external hard drive for backup of computer files"
From the bullet point list on their features page.
In business, just because something is better does not always mean it is the killer of the current king. One easy example would be to compare Windows to other OSes. Sure this is open for debate, but many consider the Mac OS to be a much more robust OS than Windows. Windows however controls the market. Just because Apple may introduce an even better OS next year, you won't hear anybody claiming it to be a "Windows killer". Same with the new versions of desktop Linux. Or we could go back in history and look at Beta vs. VHS.
The point being, Apple has achieved phenomenal success with the iPod. There are a slew of mp3 players out there that are probably better than the iPod in many ways. However, Apple has integrated the iPod with iTunes for a seemless user experience. Not only that, but the iPod is THE de facto standard. When you want a cotton swab, you ask for a Q-tip. When you want a bandage, you ask for a Band-Aide. When you want a digital player, you ask for an iPod. There are alternatives out there, and some may be better...but that doesn't make it a "killer"
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
isn't that suppose to be the best/most unique feature on ipod?
This Sig is removed due to factual inaccuracy
these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =5730188928&category=40138 are what I was talking about....
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
I'm loud happy with my minidisc player! As long as we're all happy!
IF you want Linux (or any other OS) support, get the Muvo Range.
They appear as a simple USB Mass Storage device.
You have the Muvo TX which is a flash player, or the Muvo2 which is a 4GB Mini iPod style HD player. and the HD interface on the Muvo2 is FAST ENOUGH (USB2.0) to actually use it as an external hard disk!
the Zen range use the proprietry Nomad Jukebox style communications and require additional drivers.
Have a nice day!
I have bought their earlier mp3 players, speakers and other products. All of these products had one thing in common. They were of extremely poor quality. The batteries on my 6GB Nomad Jukebox lasted what seemed like 20 minutes. When you were playing music scrolling around the menus became painfully slow. Their speakers make hissy noises when powered and not connected to anything. Their software is clunky at best. I am never ever buying another Creative product.
whatever the iPod is, it isn't ugly. Design goes a long way toward selling just about everything apple makes. maybe these other companies should think about hiring some decent industrial designers.
Creative had these players prominently displayed and demoed at a recent electronics expo I went to.
This thing looks and feels like a toy. The buttons have horrible feel to them, and do not react well at least to my fingers pressing them.
If their target audience is 12-year-olds and younger, then I guess it'd sell well, but somehow I doubt it.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
...that fugly thing is getting anywhere near me.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
Your response failed to take into account the facts I mentioned in my post. I have mod points, but answered instead. Your failure to understand the question could be understood as a trolling attempt.
In my opinion, Scientology is a cult you should avoid.
Most things do not officially support Linux, but OSS developers often write thier own support. Additionally, Muvo and Zen jukebox already has Linux support so this is either supported already or would be shortly. Previous comments in other threads have said this already.
So yes, you are a troll.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
I can't hear you, I'm listening to my mp3 player!
Free Zen Micro with every SS call-up notice!
You posted what systems the manufacturer of the product supports. That's a completely different question than whether linux supports the device. (Neither my ISP nor any manufacturer of any HW component I own "supports Linux" to the extent that they'd list it in the "required OS" line on the box ... that's not stopped me from using it all in Linux anyway.) This is likely what burned your karma.
The problem that rivals are having is that whilst they can easily make a product that is technically superior, they can't make a product that is asthetically superior.
All the "iPod killers" i've seen look cheap, nasty and feel it too. Maybe if they stopped concentrating on bundling niche features and geting their price as low as possible and looked to using quality materials and a good design then people will buy it. Apple has clearly shown that people are prepared to pay more for something that looks it.
Finally, Sony got it almost right. Their HD based MP3 players look asthetically very good. It's a pity they then threw that all away by not making it support MP3 and only having 20 gig.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
do they support Beo... Oh never mind!
I think most of us can attest that just because a computer peripheral doesn't specifically mention Linux support doesn't mean it won't work with Linux. Especially a device that only has perform generic duties; say, for instance, be a mountable external USB harddrive. The poster is simply enquiring whether or not anyone with hands on experience knows if it works with Linux. Such a flippant response is not required. Your tone was very jerk-like.
Have you actually looked for linux support? There is the libnjb that provides the interface, and I'm using Gnomad2 to deal with my Zen and the original Nomad Jukebox that I have.
Removable, rechargeable battery ZEN MICRO's removable battery is easy to swap with another fully charged battery, there's no need to hang around waiting for your player to charge. Now you truly have the battery juice to get loose.
The problem that rivals are having is that whilst they can easily make a product that is technically superior, they can't make a product that is asthetically superior.
Whether the mini iPod appeals to you is a matter of taste, as is whether you like the iPot user interface.
In any case, I suspect Apple will be out of the iPod business within a few years: the prices will drop so low the margins will be too thin form it to be worth it.
The early adopters had two ways to fill up their iPods:
p2p networks
CD collections
If you had 100 CDs, and 14 tracks a CD, and 1mb per minute, and about 3 minutes per song, so 3mb per track, or 42mb per CD, they would have roughly 4200mb of music.
That also translates to at $12 per CD, $1,200 of music. Not so far off from your iPod mini calculation.
If they bought all their CDs brand new at $19 a cd, that's $1,900 of music.
If they had 200 CDs...
Or compilations...
See, iPods are dirt cheap compared to music. Some people, they have hundreds of gbs of legit music. Imagine someone who bought 5 CDs a month for 10 years; that's 60 CDs a year, or 600 CDs in 10 years. If 100CDs is 4gb, then 600 CDs is 24gb easily. And if you bought more than 5CDs a year... well, the cost of an MP3 player doesn't really amount to much at all.
GPL Deconstructed
there are a set of buttons missing a graphing calculator...
> I for one am tired of the pharse "iPod killer".
Yes, I'm tired of this pharse as well.
DJCC
maybe i'm just being anal-retentive or something, but i won't buy a product named after a religion. a company with a name like "creative" should be able to do better... i mean, if they called it the "Jesus Micro" people would get really upset.
is it just me?
That's a good point.
Does anyone know why they left out AM Radio?
Is it really that much more expensive to put it in?
is selling multiple colors of a product a nickable "Feature"? I think the last guy to consider color irrelevant in product marketing was *Henry Ford*...
;)
Gee, maybe they should apply for a business patent.
Claimed: A device or product, available in multiple colors, such that the customer might buy a white one, or possibly (!) a *blue* or *pink* one!
Sadly, someone's probably already filed it.
Does anybody know a serious reason why companies like Creative don't implement standard mass storage protocols in their MP3 players? This isn't even related to DRM, so it must be plain ignorance.
A friend of mine purchased a Creative MP3 player and was very upset that he had to install some special software to transfer files. Sometimes you want to transfer files from/to work, university, etc. and you don't want to install software there (or you don't even have the option).
Could anyone tell me why Slashdot has seemingly dozens of these ipod-killer stories every month, but has done just one front page item on podcasting?
The last few months have given birth to a brand new form of media, and the "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters" site is still just pimping products with years-old technology.
I'm here every day, and will continue to come every day but that doesn't mean I'm happy. Perhaps the ThinkGeek influence is stronger than I previously believed and Slashdot is slowly becoming a PCMagazine clone.
slashsearch.org - slashdot search. powered by google.
as sin.
I encode all my cd's as BIl's. I didn't like ogg, wma, mp3, aac, flac ect. So I wrote my own damn file format. I won't buy a player until it lets me load my own codac in. Whats the point of having a closed source player play an open sourced codac? If they were both open we wouldn't have this problem!
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
just one front page item on podcasting?
Because "podcasting" is just a rehash of internet streaming audio, which has been around for a decade? Finally Mac people have a few programs that can record streams and they think it's nirvana.
Da Blog
what an 'ipod-killer' is? Never heard that term before...
All these different portable players are great, but how do we deal with our libraries? My library is fully managed by iTunes, but is primarily MP3 (I don't import using AAC).
Yes, iTunes support for multi formats is rather... limited. Try something like Media Center - I've yet to find a format (audio or video) it can't manage. If your collection is fully tagged then transferring to another jukebox software should be relatively painless.
Da Blog
iPod was popular before the music store. It's iTunes itself. The killer app for organizing your music. Nobody does it better or simpler.
The fact that you think this is probably because you haven't tried Media Center.
Da Blog
Another iPod killer? It sure seems like so far the better term would be "iPod victim".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's really easy to have enough music to fill up even the larger ones. All it takes is a CD collection that is twenty years in the making, and a bunch of other random audio stuff you might want to hear (like lectures).
It's also not quite as expensive as you might think - sometimes whole CD's on iTunes might have 20+ songs but still go for $10. A number of compilations are like that.
Besides, is it so staggering when you computer the total cost of a large CD or record collection? Not at all!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Whether you like it or not, the iPod is firmly entrenched in society all over the world as _the_ digital audio player to have. Sure it is not the best deal, but people will still want it no matter what new features the competetors have. Imagine a kid whose friends wore a particular brand of shoes that were more expensive, and not necessarily of better quality or style than some other brands. Would this kid want to buy brand A, or some other brand that nobody had any recognition for?
What does this mean then? It means that no matter what the competetion (iRiver, Creative, Dell, et. al) creates, they will not dethrone the iPod from its leading position for a long time, unless they can somehow alter the collective mindset of several million people.
Call it a trend, fad, or whatever, but there is absolutely no chance that any of these "iPod killers" will kill the iPod (mini included) this holiday season.
OK, I just have to, because this annoying habit seems to be a very popular theme with modern hardware marketers. Quote from the article:
1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes. Available capacity will be less. Reported capacity will vary.
First.
1 GB =/= 1,000,000,000 bytes.
1 GB = 1024 MB
1 MB = 1024 KB
1 KB = 1024 bytes
1024*1024*1024 =/= 1,000,000,000
1024*1024*1024 = 1,073,741,824
Second, if advertised capacity is 5 GB, why will available capacity be less? 'This car? Yes, sir. 220MPH. Of course, available speed will be less.' ???
Third. Reported capacity will vary? Why? I thought we have SI system to establish -precise- measurement units. 'Yes, sir. Tank capacity of 50 galons. A bit less if you tank at Texaco pumps.
So what the bloody heck is the idea with all this 'will be less' 'may vary' etc?
You wanna buy a pound of gold? (1 lb = 2 oz) ?
'...computers in the future may have only 1000 vacuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons...' Popular Mechanics, 03/49'
Seems pretty damned ugly, to me. The buttons aren't nearly as intuitive as the iPod's, to boot. "No need to go running around in circles?" Pardon? At least I don't have to take my thumb off the iPod in order to scroll through things quickly. And "curved to fit?" Curved to fit what? Seems like they're stretching it a bit, there.
I'm viewing these "iPod-killers" as filling the same role that third parties do in America; to add new ideas so that the big players can pick them up for continued dominance. I just don't see the iPod going anywhere soon, given its dominance, intuitive interface, integration with one of the best MP3 players out there, and its "hip" factor.
Why was this comment rated as a troll? Seemed pretty much on the mark to me.
Another mp3 device another chance for the drinkers of Apples Koolaid to do a Carl Rove.
..." - Hey cool at least your letting us know up front you have partaken of the koolaid.
"its ugly" - No my friend your reactionary knee jerk is ugly, so is the consumer attitude spewed by the iPlod zealotry.
"it wont work with iTunes" - Since when does having to work with an AOL style service (You pay for what we tell you to do) come into play. If anything folks shouldbe happy not to be tied to a DRM stuffed albatros like iTunes.
"i am an ipod user and therefor
Wake up consumer sheeple, think differnt....for a change.
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Everybody needs a drink and needs to get laid. So quit stating the obvious.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
...since my Nomad IIc died, and I discovered that it only came with a 3 month warantee, and it had only been (lightly) used for under a year. I might try another cheapo brand, but that's it for Creative in my book. You'd hope that a solid state device might last a bit longer than a cassette walkman, but I still have a late 80's boodoo kahn that's going strong. I'd like an iPod, but I really can't justify the price.
>>...iPot user interface.
:-)
Don't forget to mention the recent upgrade from a phosphor/striking surface interface to a flint/scroll wheel. The new iPot is so intuitive, a child could use it.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
...the Mac OS is not a direct competitor with Windows, regardless of what people think. It is illegal to install it on 3rd party hardware. And it runs on different processor architecture.
So, competitor yes, but not like the Zen competes with the iPod.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Zen is only a religion if you interpret it that way. The Zen Micro is more like an Orthodox Micro.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
I think GP means "if there was anything to listen to on FM, THEN XM And Sirius wouldn't have a business plan". Just another way of saying "who gives a fuck if this thing has FM, there's nothing worth listening to on it"
Go hug some trees.
I did this with my simplyMepis desktop. It works!! It warks!!
But I have to use a USB. Does anyone know how to get gnomad2 to connect with the firewire? After modprobe ohci1394 I could see the Zen thing with the KDE GUI but gnomad2 could only find it with a USB connection.
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
This has probably been said before a lot before, but... THIS is a real iPod Killer. Under $20, too.
Go hug some trees.
You can be a geek who cares about the better product and buy and use an iPod with AAC as the iPod is a better product and AAC is the better standard (than MP3). And if you want lossless, the iPod ALSO supports ALE, which is either AAC Lossless Encoding or Apple Lossless Encoding.
The benefits of Ogg are patent encumbrance... and patent encumbrance.
If you care about low bitrates on portable devices, you might as well get the next bigger version of the iPod instead ^^
GPL Deconstructed
Thats the point. You might not need to do it very often, but when you do, for whatever reason, its simple. That is the point. Maybe it doens't matter to you, but it does to other people. Its sort of like me disparaging the usefullness of an airbag, because I've never needed one. Probely because I'm the best driver in the world, and so are all of my friends.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Don't take it personally. It's usually just enthusiasts who use this term and it's used across industries. Take, for instance, the 1990's Ferrari F40 which had a top speed of 200mph. Then when the Lamborghini Diablo was introduced months later, and had a top speed of 202mph, it was called "The F40 killer".
Need a Wiki? Check out DokuWiki
I also know a lot of people with mp3 players and absolutly no-one who buys music online. Might have something to do with being dutch.
I think that a good mp3 player needs just to work your OS. I got a creative zen and a iriver one but I must say that I now mostly use the iriver. It just appears as an extra drive under windows. What can be easier to manage.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
For everyone who is into Ogg and wants it to be included in a MP3 player I just want to ask a few questions.
Ogg is under continuous development where they go on a quality system and as they compress better and better the files of the same quality get smaller.
If this is true then if a player supported Ogg format would it need an upgrade to play an Ogg file created 2 years from now?
I'm just curious if this is true since I'm looking to rip my CDs but I'm not sure what to rip them to.
No hipster dufus would be caught dead with something that ugly. It's about how it looks, after all (snideness more than implied).
I'm sorry, but you have been docked one Karma Unit for using the phrase "seamless integration." I invoke the fair use clause of the Anti-Trite-Marketingbabble Law to protect myself from penalty for having quoted the Illegal Phrase.
It is permissible to use the Approved Word "SEMPRINI" as a placeholder for an Illegal Word or Phrase. Thank you for your attention.
So if you want OGG buy from a company that supports it in its current players.
For linux support try to find a player that is really just an usb storage device wich just happens to be able to read its own contents. Many of the smaller companies are not going to bother making their own. They just buy a usb storage solution and built their player around it. The more generic their chosen USB storage the more likely someone somewhere will have written a driver for it. Some rio models are supported probably because they were the first popular ones long before anyone at Apple had seen the light.
As for creative. Well I got their zen model and thought it was pretty good. Until I got my iriver to make up for the zens lower and lower battery life. Better sound, easier to get music on, worse button layout. Go figure.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Zen Xtra (and probably the Zen Mini too) requires a custom driver (Nomad Explorer) in order to access it and put audio and data on. Unfortunately, their program sucks: it is clunky, inconsistent and ugly. On top of that, it leaves a permanent "Nomad Explorer" icon in "My Computer" whether the device is plugged in or not.
This effectively makes the Zen Xtra useless for carrying data files around. Even if you go through the trouble of taking the driver CD with you, you will annoy the owners of the pc's you install it on by polluting their PC with annoying crap they don't need. This could've all been prevented by designing the Zen as a removable mass-storage USB device, with the audio tagging features on top of that or with an extra application.
When I emailed Creative about this, their reply was that "the Zen Xtra is not intended as a portable data storage device". Right. I guess someone forgot to tell them that the Zen IS a portable harddrive.
Who comes up with this crap? Having the Zen as a standard USB mass storage device is the only sane thing to do. If they hadn't crippled it, I would be plugging in the Zen into friend's and families' PCs, doing their marketing for them.
I have solved my music problems by buying a Nokia 6230 and an expanded MMC card for it. Sure its not as feature reach as dedicated MP3 players, but I *always* have it with me. I update the songs via bluetooth before I go somewhere and ave no troubles !
...
The best bit is that I dont miss my phone calls because I cant hear it ringing
Their are ways around it but there shouldn't have to be. Creative is really getting weird. Worst thing? For some reason my pc always played a vid of the creative logo while booting until I ripped the software apart. WTF is with them? Soundblaster used to be a decent card but the company behind them got marketing mad.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There's quite a few 'ipod killers' out already. It's just the mainstream person is too stupid to realise it and buys into apple's brainwashing schemes hook, line, and sinker. Christ, look at half the twits on this message board. I can just see them walking around like zombies with thier lobotomy scars, drooling and moaning while pointing at their ipods.
Is that you can rip out the DRM. I refuse to buy anything that has DRM such that if the company goes under I'm stuck.
For the zillionth time, Slashdotters: if you're worried about the DRM, burn an audio CD-R as a backup. iTunes lets you do this, and it's pretty generous about it, too.
This is basically the same as whining that your product key for Windows is written down on a piece of paper, so if the paper gets lost or burned or chewed apart by rabid wolves, you're screwed for life. Just make a second copy, you nitwit.
You just need to subscribe to a show or two (I use ipodder and enjoy Adam Curry's Daily Source Code). Then listen to a couple of shows while you are away from your computer (important--do this while commuting or walking or something).
Been doing this for years with Media Center's Media Scheduler. Got several hundred of my favourite shows preserved for posterity and occasional listening (Essential Mix, Breezeblock, Left Right and Centre, etc). Thanks very much but there's nothing new to see her, moving right along. By the way, I think I recorded my first stream (Real Audio) and transcoded it into low mp3 bitrate for listening on an mp3 player around 1998 or so. Welcome to the party!
Seeing that Media Center is codec agnostic and does video as well, it is nice to be able to timeshift video from the web as well. I can download shows or upload from the ReplayTV. Audio is easy and a problem solved years ago. Video is more challnging but it's sure nice to be able to check out last night's Daily Show while commuting.
Da Blog