Slashdot Mirror
Domain: promode.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to promode.org.
Comments · 18
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Other open source FPS
When it comes to fun, and skills, there's mainly free addons built by the community for the community...
For Quake3 you can find CPM, or you can find the best fps of all, Warsow, which is full open-source, cross platform and is faster than everything you know.
If you're searching fun, and gameplay, warsow is definitely the game... (checkout the tricks tutorials, and all the movements ) .
Finally don't miss warsow movies
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Re:Get a jobThis is false. The problem is that they turn these events into a media circus, and focus more on the musical guests and uninformed opinions of big media celebraties than playing the actual game.
A few nights ago, a "Masters Cup" for Challenge Promode Arena, where the match was set up through GTV and a streaming shoutcast server, so for all intents and purposes it was like watching TV...and if I had relied on the announcer to switch the view for me then it WOULD have been like watching the match on TV. The announcer was knowledgable (except when he accidently called the plasma rifle the "Hyperblaster", but whatever), the game itself was fun to watch, and I defeniatly would have tuned in to watch the match on TV had it been on TV.
I beleive it IS possible to do it right, it's just that media outlets haven't hit it yet. And to be honest, I don't even know if they will even bother trying.
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So why is Quake 3 still the best after many years?
[quote]
When Quake 3 shipped, it faced similar critisism. Most people didn't have the video resources to play it and it sucked up more cpu cycles on the servers. How soon people forget
[/quote]
Very good point. When Quake 3 shipped, folks still saw Doom as the better game.
But then something happened.
Like the internet, and high speed connections.
Suddenly Quake 3 became a world-wide multiplaying phenomenon. It changed history, really.
So why is Quake 3 still the best after so many years?
I am really puzzled why iD did not recognize multiplayer as their new focus. Valve, for instance, bought up Counter Strike and made it a new success. Counter Strike continues to be a successful enterprise.
We are playing for the consistent physics in a multiplayer game. Graphics are way far in second place as a reason to play. Many Quake 3 players turn the graphics down to favor steady frame rates.
Why, after all this time and all this success, has there not appeared the next great multiplayer game?
Unreal Tournament, Painkiller, Doom 3, are not a step forward. If there were a better game than Quake 3, I would be playing it.
For the best Quake 3 modification, one that takes its physics and game play seriously, check out:
http://www.promode.org/
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Re:I just got it.
More to the point, the multiplayer aspect will be handled by Quake4, which will be based on the new Doom engine.
Until then, Quake3 scene is still alive, especially finely-tweaked competition mods such as CPMA. -
Info for aspiring mappers
I think that if you are looking for a very balanced mod, you should check out CPMA for Quake3. These guys have been tweaking the gameplay for absolutely years and the demos from the competitions are absolutely mindblowing as far as speed, tactics and pure skill are concerned. The downside is that it has a scarily steep learning curve.
Of particular interest for an aspiring mapper is their mapping forum where they playtest and discuss the latest maps. Some extremely talented mappers there, who aren't only interested in looks, but carefully consider every aspect of gameplay for a map. If you're interested in level design, you should certainly read through that forum and test the maps discussed there to get a feel for what is important and how to improve your mapping! -
Re:Wheaton's show on G4?
With enough luck I can get a headshot with a AWP in Counterstrike:
That's the whole reason why most hardcore gamers hate CounterStrike, and why it's such a bad example to use, and should not even be a candidate for professional gaming.
Of all the multiplayer online games, both team and individual, CounterStrike ranks amoung the most "luck" based, and least skill based. There's no need to understand trajectories or predict another player's movements, moving makes your aim worse, making skillful dodging and shooting at the same time worthless, and now they even penalize you for jumping.
Compared to a game like CPMA, for example, CounterStrike requires no (individual) skill at all. Not to diminish CS too much, it does require you to be able to know all the current version's bugs and how to exploit them (invulnerable legs while using the p90, anyone?), and there is an element of teamwork involved, but my point is, against even the best CS player, you can get lucky, and the random numbers can go out of their favor and into yours, and you get a lucky headshot and kill them, but against even a lower skilled CPMA player, you probably wouldn't even manage to deal damage to them, much less get a frag.
In the more skill requiring games, the gaps are massive, and most people will never reach the level the pro's are at.
A better example would be:
I'll never punt a 40 yard kick, run a 4 hour marathon, or ski for 30 km and shoot little black dots the size of nipples at 75m, but I can punt a ball 15 yards at the local park, jog around the block a few times, ski down the bunny slopes, and go to the shooting range every once and a while. -
CPMA
Try Challenge Pro Mode (CPMA), a mod for q3.
Just take a look at this demo (large avi)-> CPMA Example Video -
Done already...In the competitive community, Promode is the standard for Q3 nowadays, and it has had the QW-like physics in from the start (which was shortly after vannilla Q3). Check it out, thousands of demos of the top players from all over the world at Challenge-TV.
If you have Q3 and are looking for a good place to start, try the Promode demos from Daler (who is in France right now competing), krg (finland), or old-skool QW legend FienD. Warning though - watch one of these demos and your jaw may hit the floor, and you'll definitely be watching 10 more before you can stop.
And kudos to my Aussie bud Hoony, who has been sheperding this mod for 4 years now...
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actually
there already is a simulation of quakeworld physics
it's called CPMA (challenge promode arena)
and i used to play it a lot. it's pretty fun. it's not 100% faithful, but it's super fast with insane air control. -
Ever heard of Promode, for Quake3?
It has better-than-QW physics, complete with bunnyhopping, doublejumping, and MANY, MANY more tweaks and gameplay improvements.
By far the most skilled form of FPS gaming available to date. Quite a nice competitive community.
Promode for Q3. -
Fix the game, too
The best mod out there is promode for Quake3--fixes all the bugs and crap that was put in there to keep the newbies happy. The difference between promode and vanilla quake 3 (and UT) is like the difference between professional baseball and T-ball.
But don't take my word for it, try it yourself: Try it yourself -
Re:Promode
That's a very poorly designed website you indicated (unless one of their goals is to keep the atmosphere "professional" by excluding newbies). I've read it over for 5 minutes, and can't tell what's different between "Pro Mode" and regular Quake3.
The front page says nothing except release announcement (no changeslogs). The "Concept" page says "based on newbie-ness of Quake3, we considered much advice, and tuned-up pro-level gameplay". The "Newbie FAQ" says "Install it this way, then start playing or watching demos" (No thanks! Much too much time investment)
I suppose I could pull something together by reading viewpoints of the multiple "pundits" who contributed to their design (views which are neither unified, nor guaranteed to be consistent)
In short, it's the wrong way to advertise a game patch, and it doesn't provide accessible examples for Slashdot theorizing, either. -
Promode
I play a mod for Quake3 that is probably the fastest, craziest mind numbingly difficult first person shooter there is.
I've played it and other first person shooters for about 3 years and I can definately say it improves your spatial awareness and hand eye coordination.
People have also commented on my low reaction times and general ability to notice things.
The thing is, I reckon sports can improve these areas as well if not more effectively. Playing games doesn't exactly get you fit either so its important to do both. -
Feh.First off, for me: 'hardcore' gaming is fun. I can't just play a game without looking at how i could play it better. It's in my blood.
Second, people wouldn't whine as much about it if Carmack&Co. hadn't promoted the game as a 'hardcore deathmatch' game. Obviously the people who spend several months just learning how to do a single trick jump correctly (side note: Q3 trickjumps might become a part of the xgames) are going to be very few indeed. Quake 3 simply does not allow enough skill to be a valuable tournament-level game, though it is better than Counterstrike in that regard. Counterstrike is the T-ball of FPSs, though it is fun for 90% of the gamers out there. If you want a game that actually takes skill to play, however, look to the CPM mod for q3 or Quakeworld.-Elendale
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To bad Carmack improved the wrong things.
AKA "The turd is finally polished!"
Counterstrike has completely quad rocketed quake3 into submission. Don't believe me? Check gamespy.com's stats. I'll even save you the trouble....
Top 5 Games By Players
Half Life
25155
Quake 3: Arena
2353
If this isn't "Ma Mmma Ma Monster Kill" I'll buy you a copy of Unreal Touranment. How did an old creaky 3 year old engine (21 October 1998 release) have an order of magnitude of difference in popularity. Didn't Carmack get the curved surface alpha blended Wow-a-tron 9000 SIMD enhanced shaders right? Unfortunately he did at the cost of his core audience.
The CPL (Cyberathelete Professional League) has dropped Q3 support. Other major tourneys are considering following suit and there seems to be a lot of frustration with the limitations of VQ3 (Vanilla Quake 3) turning into an eleborate game of pong. He with the best aim wins 40K!
This is obviously an overstatement but isn't far from the truth. Read some of the pro tourney demo reviews (zero4, fatality, lakerman) and commentary on challenge-world.com (and affiliates). Search for the word "aim". All of the pro players recognize that big league Q3 is all about the crosshair. Obviously you need to hit your target but is that all deathmatch is about?
Q3 seems to be bunny hopping right into the "wrong place", errr... Actually it isn't, and thats some of the problem. You can't bunny hop, acceleration jump, double jump, do complex air manauvers, and perform weapon switch combos (rocket to shaft -> pin to wall) because these were obviously bugs and Carmack fixed them. Its a near wonder that rocket jumping isn't "fixed". Maybe it is in Wolfenstin MP Test, I'm not sure. Q3 is bad deathmatch. Why? Let me count the ways:
You can't control a map with 5 second item respawns, Depleting armor makes it armor heavy, you can't enhance your velocity, way too much weapon balence, the Grenade Launcher is timed poorly and is about as precise as throwing a dead tuna, the rockets are still too slow, etc, etc...
Wait a minute you're saying... If these are legitimate problems that hardcore quakers tend to agree on, and the Q3 source is open, and easily moddable- why don't I shut up and start coding?
Simple. Its already being done for and by hardcore quakers. Its called CPM Challenge Pro Mode it essentially rebreaks what Carmack has "fixed", and it makes a much more enjoyable (rewards dedication >> depth) deathmatch experience. It isn't nearly as fringe as you might think. If I was a betting man I'd give it 2to1 to overtake VQ3 in 2 years when all of the "I do it for the pretty colors" first person shooter llamas have moved on to the NBT.
Look at the featureset, here
See what hardcore quakers have said about it here and here
Vanilla Quake3 is finally "gold"? Great. I could care less. -
To bad Carmack improved the wrong things.
AKA "The turd is finally polished!"
Counterstrike has completely quad rocketed quake3 into submission. Don't believe me? Check gamespy.com's stats. I'll even save you the trouble....
Top 5 Games By Players
Half Life
25155
Quake 3: Arena
2353
If this isn't "Ma Mmma Ma Monster Kill" I'll buy you a copy of Unreal Touranment. How did an old creaky 3 year old engine (21 October 1998 release) have an order of magnitude of difference in popularity. Didn't Carmack get the curved surface alpha blended Wow-a-tron 9000 SIMD enhanced shaders right? Unfortunately he did at the cost of his core audience.
The CPL (Cyberathelete Professional League) has dropped Q3 support. Other major tourneys are considering following suit and there seems to be a lot of frustration with the limitations of VQ3 (Vanilla Quake 3) turning into an eleborate game of pong. He with the best aim wins 40K!
This is obviously an overstatement but isn't far from the truth. Read some of the pro tourney demo reviews (zero4, fatality, lakerman) and commentary on challenge-world.com (and affiliates). Search for the word "aim". All of the pro players recognize that big league Q3 is all about the crosshair. Obviously you need to hit your target but is that all deathmatch is about?
Q3 seems to be bunny hopping right into the "wrong place", errr... Actually it isn't, and thats some of the problem. You can't bunny hop, acceleration jump, double jump, do complex air manauvers, and perform weapon switch combos (rocket to shaft -> pin to wall) because these were obviously bugs and Carmack fixed them. Its a near wonder that rocket jumping isn't "fixed". Maybe it is in Wolfenstin MP Test, I'm not sure. Q3 is bad deathmatch. Why? Let me count the ways:
You can't control a map with 5 second item respawns, Depleting armor makes it armor heavy, you can't enhance your velocity, way too much weapon balence, the Grenade Launcher is timed poorly and is about as precise as throwing a dead tuna, the rockets are still too slow, etc, etc...
Wait a minute you're saying... If these are legitimate problems that hardcore quakers tend to agree on, and the Q3 source is open, and easily moddable- why don't I shut up and start coding?
Simple. Its already being done for and by hardcore quakers. Its called CPM Challenge Pro Mode it essentially rebreaks what Carmack has "fixed", and it makes a much more enjoyable (rewards dedication >> depth) deathmatch experience. It isn't nearly as fringe as you might think. If I was a betting man I'd give it 2to1 to overtake VQ3 in 2 years when all of the "I do it for the pretty colors" first person shooter llamas have moved on to the NBT.
Look at the featureset, here
See what hardcore quakers have said about it here and here
Vanilla Quake3 is finally "gold"? Great. I could care less. -
To bad Carmack improved the wrong things.
AKA "The turd is finally polished!"
Counterstrike has completely quad rocketed quake3 into submission. Don't believe me? Check gamespy.com's stats. I'll even save you the trouble....
Top 5 Games By Players
Half Life
25155
Quake 3: Arena
2353
If this isn't "Ma Mmma Ma Monster Kill" I'll buy you a copy of Unreal Touranment. How did an old creaky 3 year old engine (21 October 1998 release) have an order of magnitude of difference in popularity. Didn't Carmack get the curved surface alpha blended Wow-a-tron 9000 SIMD enhanced shaders right? Unfortunately he did at the cost of his core audience.
The CPL (Cyberathelete Professional League) has dropped Q3 support. Other major tourneys are considering following suit and there seems to be a lot of frustration with the limitations of VQ3 (Vanilla Quake 3) turning into an eleborate game of pong. He with the best aim wins 40K!
This is obviously an overstatement but isn't far from the truth. Read some of the pro tourney demo reviews (zero4, fatality, lakerman) and commentary on challenge-world.com (and affiliates). Search for the word "aim". All of the pro players recognize that big league Q3 is all about the crosshair. Obviously you need to hit your target but is that all deathmatch is about?
Q3 seems to be bunny hopping right into the "wrong place", errr... Actually it isn't, and thats some of the problem. You can't bunny hop, acceleration jump, double jump, do complex air manauvers, and perform weapon switch combos (rocket to shaft -> pin to wall) because these were obviously bugs and Carmack fixed them. Its a near wonder that rocket jumping isn't "fixed". Maybe it is in Wolfenstin MP Test, I'm not sure. Q3 is bad deathmatch. Why? Let me count the ways:
You can't control a map with 5 second item respawns, Depleting armor makes it armor heavy, you can't enhance your velocity, way too much weapon balence, the Grenade Launcher is timed poorly and is about as precise as throwing a dead tuna, the rockets are still too slow, etc, etc...
Wait a minute you're saying... If these are legitimate problems that hardcore quakers tend to agree on, and the Q3 source is open, and easily moddable- why don't I shut up and start coding?
Simple. Its already being done for and by hardcore quakers. Its called CPM Challenge Pro Mode it essentially rebreaks what Carmack has "fixed", and it makes a much more enjoyable (rewards dedication >> depth) deathmatch experience. It isn't nearly as fringe as you might think. If I was a betting man I'd give it 2to1 to overtake VQ3 in 2 years when all of the "I do it for the pretty colors" first person shooter llamas have moved on to the NBT.
Look at the featureset, here
See what hardcore quakers have said about it here and here
Vanilla Quake3 is finally "gold"? Great. I could care less. -
Re:Q1 - strategy, Q3 - ping (other comments)Technically, the q3 netcode is superior to qw's. Though technically the universe shouldn't exist... The next point release for q3 should give a hearty beef to HPB's out there, the Promode mod seems to (in some mystical magical way) run far smoother than normal q3
And yes, you are correct: qw==strategy q3==ping/aim. Again, check out Promode for an entirely different way of playing q3.-Elendale