Slashdot Mirror

MGR provides each client window with: termcap-style terminal control functions, graphics primitives such as line and circle drawing; facilities for manipulating bitmaps, fonts, icons, and pop-up menus; commands to reshape and position windows; and a message passing facility enabling client programs to rendezvous and exchange messages. Client programs may ask to be informed when a change in the window system occurs, such as a reshaped window, a pushed mouse button, or a message sent from another client program. These changes are called events. MGR notifies a client program of an event by sending it an ASCII character string in a format specified by the client program. Existing applications can be integrated into the windowing environment without modification by having MGR imitate keystrokes in response to user defined menu selections or other events.

MGR currently runs on Linux, Sun 3/4 workstations with SunOS, Coherent, and BSD. Various older versions of MGR run on the Macintosh, Atari ST MiNT, Xenix, 386-Minix, DEC 3100, and the 3b1 Unix-pc. Many small, industrial, real-time systems under OS9 or Lynx in Europe use (another variant of) Mgr for their user interface. The programming interface is implemented in C and in ELisp, although supporting clients written in other languages is quite easy.

Running MGR requires much less in resources than X, or even gcc. It does not have the user-base, software repertory, or high-level libraries of X or MS-Windows, say, but it is quite elegant and approachable.

The above is taken from t he MGR HOWTO

see the Linux Weekly News' Security page for information on Linux security projects which are already under way:
Secure Linux Projects Bastille Linux
Khaos Linux Secure Linux
Security List Archives
Bugtraq Archive
Firewall Wizards Archive
ISN Archive

Distribution-specific links
Caldera Advisories
Debian Alerts
Red Hat Errata
SuSE Announcements

Miscellaneous Resources
CERT
CIAC
Comp Sec News Daily
Crypto-GRAM
Linux Security Audit Project
OpenSEC
Security Focus
SecurityPortal

installwatch

gnome rpm work station

I could list more....just go to www.freshmeat.net and search for rpm.

Guys, our only hope is to send Redhat mail about this nastiness. Right now, I can't read their site except using lynx, unless I use my hand-written proxy that strips out all the font changes and width stuff. I just sent webmaster@redhat.com mail explaining why I couldn't read their site. I also posted them at the admittedly Spartan but functional html design guidlines. I encourage you to do likewise, after your own fashion, of course.

I can't stand it anymore! Why the f*** do they use such a poor design as many others - my question is: all you people have 800x600 (or maybe 640x480) screen res ? I have seen this on many sites, the pages it's fixed size, no matter the screen res. This is BS! Want to see what make rant? Go to RedHat with a screen res of 1280x1024 and try the same thing with this site. Go slashdot ! 'nuf said.

If I look at www.redhat.com, the top story in their Slashdot box is "Be Inc. IPO launched"

When I click through to redhat's filtered version of slashdot, and compare it to slashdot, I see that there's another missing story also: "Red Hat Portal Picking up Steam"

I'm sure if you asked them about it, Redhat would tell you "our lawyer's made us do it", and I would *hope* that this filter is going to be dropped after the IPO... but still, things like this make me a little uneasy.

If I look at www.redhat.com, the top story in their Slashdot box is "Be Inc. IPO launched"

When I click through to redhat's filtered version of slashdot, and compare it to slashdot, I see that there's another missing story also: "Red Hat Portal Picking up Steam"

I'm sure if you asked them about it, Redhat would tell you "our lawyer's made us do it", and I would *hope* that this filter is going to be dropped after the IPO... but still, things like this make me a little uneasy.

It's kinda sad how short the XFree team is on developers when more or less 99.999% of Linux users use X and 100% of distributions package it. It could really use some more commercial support from RedHat and SUSE, though they have helped a little bit in the past (RHat donated NeoMagic code once...).

For information on becoming an XFree86 developer, please visit the XFree86 developer page.

Also, you non-programmers that use X can do your part by knowing that RedHat and other commercial Linux vendors have ears for their customers and showing concern for the frequency of XFree86 release cycles is a good way to let them know that support for X development is very important to the success of Linux.

Followup:

E*Offering doesn't seem to have any info on Redhat in their IPO Calendar. E*Offering does have some other interesting stuff though.

The Red Hat IPO press release does in fact say that E*Trade is one of the underwriters.

> Linux seems to be inherently less secure than
> xBSD because it contains more software from more
> sources. If you run BSD you get your packages
> from the BSD team, not from a third party
> developer.

I get all non-standard packages for the Redhat systems from redhat.com--I'm not sure what you mean by "third party developer". After all, the ports stuff in FreeBSD fetches source from third party sites...how is this different from what you mention above?

> Getting everything from one place makes it easy.
> In BSD, ls is ls - not part of the fileutils.
> Basically, BSD is packaged better than Linux is.

I don't necessarily agree, though I do understand your frustration at 'ls' being by itself. However, this is much more a GNU construct than anything; they are actually the ones who grouped all file utilities in a package called 'fileutils'. Plus, one can always do 'rpm -qf `which ls`' ...

As for your criticism of installing (and maintaining) Linux: I wholeheartedly disagree. Not that *BSD is worse than Linux (Redhat, specifically) but that you don't do Redhat justice. I just started installing our servers using the Redhat kickstart utility; I go from POSTing to a running server in about 7 minutes. The details:

• All services were fully configured, including closing all inetd ports (but leaving inetd running for amanda backups and telnet w/tcpd allowing only my IP address)
• I had a personal ID created on the system with password correctly set
• I intervened *ONE* time at approximately six minutes into the installation to specify network information.

I'd say that's pretty easy to install. Maintenance is rather easy with RPMs (including those I make myself), especially in doing things like keeping software versions identical across 2-15 servers.

That said, I'm in the middle of setting up a FreeBSD box for us to beat on for a while. My FreeBSD partition at home convinced me after a bit of FS benchmarking...heh...

• Linux.com
  
• Linux.org
  
• Red Hat Software
  
• Debian GNU/Linux
  
• Slackware Linux
  
  Thats all I can think of in the 10 seconds I took to write this. Hope it helps!
  

People buying Linux WILL buy RedHat over the $1.99 version, and I'll tell you why: RedHat's customers are major corporations, and they want the support that comes with paying $80. Sure, YOU can go download it for free, but as Linux gets adopted into the mainstream IT market, you can bet that IT managers will pay RedHat for the support. Sure, it's questionable whether RH will make its main bucks off of support, but it makes IT people happier to pay for it. So much the better for everyone.

And calling someone an oaf isn't exactly elevating the debate to the next level, now is it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, here, but isn't the support that comes with the purchase of an Official Red Hat copy just for install support? Granted, you can purchase additional support from Red Hat for extra ducats, just like you can for that other company. But if I'm not scanning blank sectors, the "support with the official version" is just for installation support.

Therefore, what is the benefit of purchasing more than one "official" copy of the RH distro? So you just buy one copy and REALLY get your money's worth out of the RH Install Support team. :)


And you are correct: Name-calling is not elevating the debate to the next level.

Geordon

Check out gnoghurt from RHAD at http://www.labs.redhat.com/gnoghurt and Video4Linux.

The utemper errata on RedHat's site fixes the problem where xterms wouldn't die on logout.
----------

But I agree that RedHat sites have too many broken links.

But I agree that RedHat sites have too many broken links.

But I agree that RedHat sites have too many broken links.

Dear Sir and other readers.

Thank you for voicing your problems with Red Hat Technical Support. We can only address those problems brought to our attention.

For other people reading this, and looking to either give positive or negative feedback on their support, please get the name of the Technician, the time you called, and send your input to sup-manager@redhat.com.

From this we can talk to the technicians involved and work on better methods for clearing up such problems.

Stephen Smoogen

Support Manager

Normally RedHat linux vs. brand X linux doesn't matter, however it seems that RedHat is taking steps to insure that doesn't work any more. It's very clearly visible in RHL6. Try compiling Apache w/ mod_ssl out of the box. NG. Can't find ndbm.h, obviously a bug right? Nope. "There are two flavors of ndbm.h that would like the honor of being called THE ndbm.h, so re-write the make file to use the one in db1 or db2." Checkout RedHat Bugzilla Bug number 2527. I don't know about you, but it looks to me like RedHat is trying to segment the market. I USED to be an avid RedHat fan, now I'm taking my distribution preference elsewhere...

No Lie. read the announcement from the desk of Bob Young. Inquire at Goldman Sachs or Etrade ot Thomas Wesiel Partners for prospectus. What do you think of the timing? MS trial resumes, war comes to end, Nasdaq recovers from slide. Did they time it right?...

This article describes ImageMagic both as an Imlib-equivalent and something that brings "improved graphical effects" to KDE. Imlib doesn't do anything I'd call graphical effects. It basically just frees you from having to deal with different file formats, visuals, colour depths, gamma values etc. and provides some basic functionality like scaling, flipping and right-angle rotation. See the Imlib tutorial for more info.
--

Here is a summary, type the following as root:

/usr/sbin/chkfontpath --add /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi

hope this helps. Thats a pretty cool java applet I gotta admit. Also for some of you who are having problems, it might be because of an old version of netscape (or IE I suppose) that doesn't yet support Java 1.1 applets. In that case you gotta waste some bandwidth downloading a newer version.

It is great that there is actually a choice, but even though I prefer GNOME for personal reasons KDE is the choice for anyone attempting to build complex and large applications. The strongest and most understated strength of KDE is that is built on top of the MICO implementation of CORBA . Which is by very far the most advanced free implementation out there, as compared to ORBit which is what GNOME uses. This makes the real difference, at least to me. CORBA is a very powerful tool and having a robust implementation really makes a big difference. Eventually GNOME will catch up but for now for serious development it has to be KDE.

They say the delay is because the movie is getting voice-over's in some european countries. Well, it is not getting any in my country. We have subtitling here in Sweden, and the original sound retained. Subtitling the whole movie wouldn't take more than a few days of work...
Well, now THIS gives me a reason to win the geekworld contest... Too bad I have no place to mirror the site where I have enough bandwidth.

--

I heard the price was going to go up, but, uh, jumping from a ~$39 boxed set to $300! Almost a 100% increase in price?!?!?!?!

I realize they are evolving from "email only" support to "phone" support now, but... Uh... Is the $40 box with the book, CD's w/source, and sticker gone? Maybe the page isn't fully updated yet? Am I over reacting?

Eeek. _IF_ this is true, it looks like I won't be buying "offical" for a long long time... $40 to toss to them to pay Raster and others to write GPL is something I can handle once a year or so, but $400 isn't.... Cheap Bytes, here I come... And, while I am there, I don't see a whole lot of reason not to just get Debain CD's insted... Or try something new...

Someone tell me I am wrong, please :-)

anyone know when I will actually be able to have X working on a tnt2?

I love my 2400x1600@32bpp virtual displays on my current TNT; the TNT2 promises to be even better!

anyone know when I will actually be able to have X working on a tnt2?

I love my 2400x1600@32bpp virtual displays on my current TNT; the TNT2 promises to be even better!

I don't know for sure but these guys might also be on the pay roll....

http://www.labs.redhat.com/who.shtml

1. Timely security updates don't always happen.

2. A history of upgrade problems. Every distribution has had upgrade difficulties at some point, of course, but it seems like RH has had more than its share.

3. Immature bug tracking. Red Hat did not have a public bug tracking system before bugzilla was released.

4. Lack of update tools. e.g.: no single, approved command to check for and install any "errata" patches over the internet.

It's not clear to me that automatically installing errata is a good thing. I make it a point to read the errata carefully to decide whether to install things.

Nevertheless, there are readily available tools that do exactly what you want. And if you don't like the various contributed programs, it can be done in three lines from the shell:

wget -m ftp://updates.redhat.com/5.2/alpha/
for p in *.rpm; do rpm -q `rpm -qp --queryformat '%{name}' $p` && pl="$pl $p"; done
rpm -U $pl

Mind the ticks and backticks. If you're not sufficiently familiar with RPM to do things like this, put it in a script and preface it with a '#!/bin/sh' line.

5. Frequently inaccessible ftp server, hard to locate list of mirrors.

6. $99 for a proprietary secure web server.

Skimming over the comments thus far, I didn't notice any about RHAD Labs, although a recent post did make mention of Rasterman.

I think it's extremely important to note that while Redhat not only packages its distribution under the GPL, it funds development of such software. We are all well aware that for Linux to become a viable system for out-of-the box use by novices, certain components absolutely need to be developed.

I don't intend to get invoved in everybody's holy war between Gnome, KDE, CDE and whatever else is out there, so I won't make any claims about Gnome's superiority. But it is out there, and is a big step in the direction of novice useability. Developers will also recognize Imlib as a sizeable contribution Redhat developers have made to the Linux community. The list goes on.

Of course, the money to fund full-time employees to write free software has to come from somewhere. And this is where the corporate presence comes in. It becomes difficult for us to distinguish between the corporate Redhat who sells user support as the added value (which is legitimately worth the cash paid for it) and the free Redhat who distributes its product the old-fashioned way.

Redhat as a distribution is another story entirely. Whether it complies to the FSSTD, has your favorite software pre-packaged, or whatever, is a completely subjective issue. But Redhat as a company is unquestionably non-destructive, and in fact helpful to the Linux community at large.

"Well, he don't know the meaning of dope when he's looking for a suit and tie rap that's cleaner than a bar of soap. And i'm the dirtiest thing in sight, matter of fact, break out the girls and let's have a mud fight."
Dan Rosen

Well, I'm a pretty happy Red Hat 5.2 user, but I've also installed and run Slackware (twice) and Debian (once) for at least a couple of months at a time. My impressions of Red Hat are as follows:

I got v4.2 from a book. At the time, I was a novice user. I'd been running Slackware 96 for a little while having recovered from a crashed Debian install (hardware, not software issue) and was getting frustrated with it. At the time, computers weren't a big issue to me. I just wanted a working, anything-but-Microsoft computer.

The installation was no easier to me than Slack or Debian had been, once I allowed for first-time jitters from that first Debian install and the fear I had of Slack's reputation. The advantage was a lack of compilation paranoia that had hounded me as a novice thanks to RPM's.

Not long after I installed 4.2, 5.0 hit the market. It had a working Gimp on CD, and I didn't have internet access at the time, so I got that. It was fine. It lasted me about a year.

When 5.1 came out, I bought it, because the net had come and gone in my home once again, and herein lies the tale:

Simply put, Red Hat 5.1 was a horrible thing to foist on customers. Take a quick peek at the errata page if you're curious. The worst part for me were the broken graphics libraries. There were also broken configuration tools, and a nonchalant warning to leave the graphical disk configurator alone because it was wrong. Cold comfort having had it scare me to death the first time I consulted it.

So, Red Hat 5.1 sucked.

About this time, Red Hat started supporting the GNOME push and announced they were against KDE in fairly definitive and ideological terms. They also stopped carrying CDE. To many users, I'm sure this seemed like a little midget Microsoft preparing for dominance of the Linux desktop, and, by extension, the corporate market for Linux.

So, so far we have:

• Dominant successful commercial distro.
• Shipping buggy product.
• Using their bully pulpit as the top commercial distro to "dis" a desktop in favor of the one they were supporting.
• Obvious interest in the business market.

In addition, and I am less qualified to speak to this because I've quite frankly forgotten Debian's setup and wouldn't remember Slackware well enough to have an opinion, I think Red Hat does some funky stuff with configuration files. I guess people go looking for things and don't find them where they're used to because Red Hat put 'em somewhere else. Like I said, I don't remember the others well enough to compare.

Last on my laundry list of things that seem to cause people to mistrust Red Hat would have to be their use of RPM as a package standard, and here I have to grit my teeth:

RPM isn't proprietary, despite claims to the contrary. It's true that RPM makes things easier on the novice, which is a "bad thing" to some among us. It's also true that there's an argument to be made for RPM allowing the person who compiles and packages an RPM to control the choices of the person installing the package later on down the road. I am assuming people who raise that last issue also complain about anything that doesn't involve compiling from source. I'd also point out that RPM supports source packages (SRPM's) that allow the end user as much control compiling a package as the original archive, because (as far as the one Red Hat produces) that's what they are in terms of the code they are carrying.

An additional complaint about RPM's, which I haven't seen for myself, is that some things are available only via RPM. I guess there are some commercial offerings where this would hold true, but I haven't seen them, and can't speak to that. Even if it is true, RPM is self-documenting. It's a simple matter to crack an RPM open for the files, figure out where they'd be placed, and put 'em there if it doesn't trample a pre-existing file. No need to even have an active RPM db on your system. Just RPM and cpio.

My own opinion on the matter is this:

They obviously learned from the disaster that was 5.1. They shipped a much better product with 5.2, and they "opened" the development process a lot more with Starbuck. I may even buy Red Hat 6.0, instead of going through Cheapbytes now that they've earned my trust back from the 5.1 fiasco.

They have also taken a conciliatory tack with the KDE project, based on maintaining that the root of their problem was ideological and acting accordingly by letting KDE back into their distro once the license issues with QT were resolved.

They aren't alone in wanting business to like them, either. Caldera is out there, and I think the Linux community at large is enjoying the slow and relentless process that is Linux overtaking and dominating in the "enterprise" world. That change has accelerated since last summer, when 5.1's crumminess and the spurning of KDE were such big issues.

I've also read the recent "Red Hat is the next Microsoft" press and have attributed that to bad journalism elsewhere. I will continue to maintain this:

We are all well aware that journalists don't confer "reality" in a sense that's meaningful to a rational person. Witness, for instance, Linux. Linux isn't "new," no matter who says it is. It existed and was in use long before the New York Times noticed it. Linux worked well before the people at ZDNet decided it did, once they had their noses rubbed in a few benchmarks.

In this case, once again, sayin' it don't make it so.

Conflict attracts attention, and reporting on conflict attracts readers. It also helps the nay-sayers get through another day of Linux bashing, because once you eliminate the mistruths told about performance, features, the presence of applications, ease of installation, and cost, you're left with tales about the underlying instability of the community that produces the product to begin with. And a good way to prove your point there is to highlight the flames and feuds (even though I don't think they're a sign of anything other than a community of people who care about something a lot) in hopes that you can prove Linux is doomed.

I also believe that the complaints about Red Hat's choices in terms of configuration file location and so on are pointless.

I am no expert. I can install several flavors of Linux, and I use it for everything I do with a computer (at home, because I'm not allowed to use it at work.) I'm not afraid of Linux, and I forebear when people talk about how "hard" it is. On the other hand, I doubt I'd be credited as a full-fledged geek by many here. Either way, Red Hat has bent to my will just fine. When I've disagreed with a choice in terms of a file's location or what have you, simple use of existing tools like 'ln' has allowed me to correct the issue to make myself more comfortable. In addition, when I couldn't find something where I thought it ought to be, it was just time to run 'find' and go get a glass of water or check my mail while I waited. At root, and speaking as a user who has written a tiny bit of Perl and had only five 'animal' books, six if you count the little Perl reference, Red Hat runs enough like the other two distros I've used as to make the differences meaningless.

Apologies for going on so long.

----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net

We *really* need a network manager for linux.
I heard rumors of HP Openview, but nothing
yet. RedHat and CA say they are going to
port Unicenter:


http://www.redhat.com/corp/p ress/current_associates.html


Does anyone know if this is going to be
on the commercial demo disk?


-- cary (busy today!)

In a nutshell, you must be 18 to win.

- Sam

I have a card with the bt848 chip on it and it does good for grabbing a frame or video up to 30fps. The bttv video4linux driver that are included with the kernels worked great when compiled and loaded as modules.

The three applications that I use most often that came with xawtv and work great. I run streamer from a cron job to capture an image every minute for the webcam on my homepage. xawtv runs under X, fbtv runs under SVGA through the kernel frame buffer, and both can run overlay, grab while displaying, or snapping images while you watch. The documentation with the source tarball is excellent.

Full motion high quality video at 30fps for 14 seconds yeilded me a whopping 46MB avi! streamer will also let you grab at a framerate of your choice if you wish to make interesting time elapsed movies, such as watching grass grow...

I did have some strange problems with my bt848 card at first, but they were traced to the card not being seated in the socket correctly. I would soon find out my bt848 works like a champ. :)

If anyone needs help I would be glad to help as I greatly enjoy this card. I got mine as a refurbished Panasonic color egg cam package for $75 (US). It has the usual video-in RCA type connector. For good reading about video in Linux, there is the video4linux mailing list.

Hopefully this will find both Rob and the other moderators.

The Moderator's Dilemma is that, as moderators, we are unable to discuss aspects of the moderation system without also violating the rules under which we are allowed to moderate. I've been thinking all evening of whether I want to post this under my own ID or as an AC, and I'm taking the Coward's way out for now, but I'm not happy about it.

The other two alternatives are for the moderators to post under their /. login (and lose their moderator status as we've seen), or for Rob to set up a private chat area for moderators to discuss issues. I really dislike the second suggestion -- it turns moderation into some sort of a star chamber. For the 75k - 407 of you who aren't moderators, realize that those of us who are don't know who the other mods are (other than Taco & Co.) either.

Of all the possible problems with the system (and I've been bumping up many of the posts pointing out issues as I find them), the most pernicious one is that a person aquires two moderator IDs and creates a cabal for themselves. A bot programmed to be reasonable and interesting might be able to pull this off. For an example of what bots can do, start here and follow the links.

It's not clear to me why Rob is insisting on moderator anonymity. This isn't a job I asked for, though it is somewhat interesting. I don't spend as much time on Slashdot as I had in the past, partly because of the AC issue, partly because there are alternate sites (LinuxToday, LWN, the revived RedHat, and SVLUG to name a few), and, well, I've got a real paying job.

There's also the fact that /. discussions are very short lived -- once off the front page, a day at most, they're effectively dead. It makes meaningful discussion very difficult. Despite the flameage, it is possible to carry on a real discussion for days or weeks in Usenet or mailing lists. This just isn't possible with the current /. setup, and contributes IMO to the fractured, opinionated, rash, nature of many posts here. It's not that there aren't pearls, it's just very hard to cultivate them.

I'm past the age where I'd score a lot of points bragging about my /. moderator status. Most of the people I know don't know what /. is. It's not going to impress my clients or my girlfriend, and Mom & Dad never understand all this computer junk anyway. If it's the threat of being mailbombed, well, my address has been posted here anyway, and if I wanted to disable its display, I could.

Why do I think moderators ought to be able to identify themselves?

1. Accountability. As a moderator, I'm making decisions that reflect how Slashdot appears. I think the fact that I am doing so should be public knowledge. Maybe not my phone and street address, but at least my /. login. Barring this, if I want to mention I am a moderator, I don't see why I shoud be barred from doing so. Frankly, the fact that I cannot do so makes me question the whole system.

2. Feedback. As moderators we get to see both sides of the system. FWIW, it's a set of radio buttons, (-)(0)(+)(++), and an article ID, next to each post. There's a 'Moderate' button at the bottom of the page. I'd like to be able to discuss what is good or bad about the system, and I don't particularly think this ought to be a private conversation between myself and Rob. I think that dropping Roy's status was inappropriate for what were some legitimate, well reasoned, and real issues with the moderation system. This is my protest vote, as a fellow moderator.

3. I can't quit. There's no 'I resign' button on the user accounts screen (where the basic "you're a moderator" info is). I suppose Rob would be able to deactivate me (there's a pleasent thought) if I sent an email request -- which would promptly get lost with the 500 other messages he gets daily.... I'm not criticising Rob, I'm just saying he gets a lot of mail. My other alternative is to say, "My user id is xxx and I'm a moderator", and hope that the Taco is feeling mean that day.

4. Living in fear. I've sent email to the wrong person, left my resume in the printer (or worse: copier <g>), had that girl sent the cutest reply back to me...and everyone else on the distribution list, shot my mouth (fingers) off in USENET and other fora. I've done a lot of things I've regretted. Cruising through this page, scoring and commenting, I've had to weigh very carefully what I've said for fear of losing my status. While it's possible to log out and post AC, you have to remember to do so, and as an AC, there is no credibility or authentication. I've already seen one challenge "how do we know you're a Moderator". It's a Catch-22. I really don't like living this way. It cramps my style.

With that off my chest, the system looks pretty good. I set prefs low (you can edit the threshhold value directly in the URL to some rediculous value). In this first forum, there are only 9 posts with negative values, the lowest is -2 (my threshhold is -10000). Searching for "(Score:-" will turn up all "underwater" posts. There are two possibly relevent posts which are thwacked, two gibberish posts, three '...sucks', and the rest are way off topic (taxes, skiing ??). It's working OK.

It would be nice to have a way of quickly reviewing negative posts. A 'max score' filter would do this. Several non-moderators have requested this as well. It would be a useful feature.

The highest ranked post has a score of 6. It's recommending an NNTP server. I've got my own arguments in favor of this as well. The second most favorably scored post calls into question the whole moderation concept. This is also healthy -- the system is not only tolerating criticism, it considers it important.

There's a real issue surrounding controversial posts. These would have low aggregate scores, but a large number of moderators. I would like to see a secondary moderation attribute on posts indicating the number of times a post has been moderated.

WRT losing threads under thwacked posts (I refer to positive scores as "bumps" and negatives as "thwacks" or "drops"), this tends to happen if you read in flat mode. If you are reading threaded, you'll tend to see threads beneath posts, and if you open threads in a new window (my MO), you'll get all posts at your default threshhold underneath.

I'm spending my points really quickly. Down to 2 left. All but one were bumps. I don't know if I ought to have more points to grant or if I should be more sparing in how I rate stuff, I'll have to see how this plays out and how quickly points refresh.

The concept behind moderation, and on the selecting of moderators, is good. It's a lot like Google. Though the definition is circular -- good sites are sites that good sites point to -- good posters are posters that good posters like -- it bootstraps well. I think it also avoids cliquishness. You just won't get one mindset. This is one of the better systems I've seen. It's not perfect but it's a damned good start. I think it's got everything in it it needs to be great.

The moderator guidelines are posted. (Rob: is this the same page Mods see -- I think it is but I can't check right now without logging in, which I can't do until I finish this post. Another Catch-22. Mods and Plebes should see the exact same guidelines -- the rules should be open).

Note among other things the math: there are four points granted per post (one point to each of 400 moderators per 100 posts). Your average article will see four votes cast if all points are spent. This is unlikely at best.

Signed, Anonymous Moderator :-(

Posted by hackerzarus:

ftp://phyppro1.phy.bnl. gov/pub/mirror/redhat-main/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu /pub/linux/redhat/redhat/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub /linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com/starbuck/
and of course, ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/starbuck/

Posted by hackerzarus:

ftp://phyppro1.phy.bnl. gov/pub/mirror/redhat-main/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu /pub/linux/redhat/redhat/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub /linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com/starbuck/
and of course, ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/starbuck/

This is a known problem. Check the RedHat Bugzilla bug report #201 for more information. Basicly, you need to upgrade util-linux.

1. RHCN verifies the e-mail address (as usual, by sending the password there)
2. You can see when the person signed up. If the person was a maintainer for a long time and maintains lots of useful packages, it gives some reasons to believe that [s]he is not just some kid trying to give you a trojaned software.

It was a nice thought. For people new here this is what Redhat.com used to look like.

- Sam Trenholme

I think the portal site is a good idea, and feel that a link to Slashdot, Freshmeat, and Userfriendly belong on the page, or belong on a page marked 'Linux community' or somesuch. I also liked the link to the Google Linux search engine. RedHat has some good ideas here, and just need to get it organized in a better manner.

- Sam Trenholme

Check out their knowledge base page... Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet? I used to be able to find the redhat mailing lists, to get helpful troubleshooting info... I'm still looking...

- Sam

Redhat Secure Server includes a RSA license for the Apache/SSL solution and it only costs $79.95 from Cheapbytes.

This alliance is now acknowledged by RedHat, in a press release.

Posted by skitzo:

Welp, I have this system which has Red Hat 5.1 installed, and the most upgrading I've done is to take the kernel up a step from 2.0.35 -> 2.0.36. What other shtuff do I gotta do to take it to 2.2? Is there a list of software I hafta download or is it just the RPMS from RH? Thanks...

1. libc5.x.xx Ignore the bit about (obsolete) libc5.
   As long as you have the latest glibc-2.0.x, you should be fine. glibc-2.1 will give you ptmx support, etc., but it may also break other things.
2. RedHat 5.2 RPMS
   Use a stock dist. and all of the updates from "ftp://updates.redhat.com/5.2/" for your architecture.
3. Routing
   With 2.1.??? and 2.2.x kernels, bringing up an interface automatically adds its routes. Comment out the following lines from '/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup':
   • 133: route add -net ${NETWORK} netmask ${NETMASK}
   • 135: route add -host ${IPADDR} ${DEVICE}
4. Broadcast for bootp/dhcp
   'bootpc' doesn't seem to work on my Multia's on a "down" interface. My workaround has been to build a kernel w/bootp support and not bring the interface down before using 'bootpc'.
5. Other Stuff
   There's a bunch. Can't think of it right now (construction workers just started up the jackhammer right outside my window). Please feel free to add. :)

As others have mentioned, use rpm --erase --nodeps to remove the 1.0.* gtk/gdk and imlib library packages installed with 5.2 (there are three).

One gotcha is that the new stuff requires a binary called libtoolize; grab the libtool SRPM and build/install it; I put it in /usr/local.

Then build and install new 1.1.* versions of the gtk/gdk and imlib libraries from the SRPMS; I install them in /usr/local. Add /usr/local/lib to your /etc/ld.so.conf file and re-run ldconfig.

Now you can build and install x11amp! Good luck.