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Red Hat Releases Starbuck
An anonymous reader was the first to let us know that
ftp.redhat.com has
something new- Starbuck, aka Red Hat 5.9, aka Pre 6.0.
Hopefully this thing will be on the mirrors.
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I like....but I want more ;)
Is this distro 2.2 based? 2.2.3?
2.2.3
magnetx.org
Seems they have KDE stacked in there. Interesting...
// Simon
So what will happen to the mandrake and bero linux distributions? They hardly have anything "extra" to offer now.
Guess their merger doesn't have any effect now either, eh?
I think I would stick with 5.2. It's been around for a while and most of the issues are known. You don't want your company being one of the beta testers, do you? Just get 5.2 and upgrade the kernel/misc tools and apply any errata/bugfixes that have been posted.
--
Jason Eric Pierce
Agreed. Do not, repeat, do not go for the Latest-And-Greatest Redhat release. Take the tried and true 5.2, and an upgrade to 6 can come if it seems to be needed.
if they distribute QT, their distro is not
GPL anymore.
Sak
I can see what version of the kernel-pcmcia rpm
is onthe package lists, but what version of David Hinds actual pcmcia package is in the rpm?
www.linuxmall.com shows Mandrake 5.2 (RH 5.2 w/ KDE) as their #2 best seller behind RH 5.2 itself.
.... but get the 2.2.3 kernel if you're running SMP boxen.. and I dunno bout you guys but I had zero problems running Apache 1.3.4 off a vanilla 5.2 box upgraded to 2.2.x.. It was only later that I bothered to upgrade the RPMs recommended by RH for kernel 2.2.x..
Do not fear the source, Luke.. Use the source..
All I can say is RedHat? Frak! By your command.
If they include QT the distro is not GPL anymore.
Sak
And when those are done, we can start with all the movies that 'borrowed' the special effects from the 'Battlestar' release.
An unstable tree for Redhat would make a lot of sense.
You screwed your system. You should never EVER compile your own packages. You must use RPM instead - that's what it's there for! You have ruined the integrety of your RedHat system and an upgrade will be impossible. You will have to format your C drive and start from scratch. I know because my mom told me.
You may have underestimated the number of us who live and work in RTP... I know of at least several dozen, probably a couple of hundred /.ers at Duke alone...
Do keys (home, end, etc) work at the command line yet? I mean, come on, it's gonna be version 6.0 and do they still not have a reasonable keymap?
I tried SuSE and one thing I liked was that all keys worked everywhere. Sure, you can fix RedHat to work, but SuSE obviously pays attention to detail. I like that.
rpm works fine from the command line- in fact, probably better than from X. So no worries on that count- though if they go to an X-based install, which is rumored for 6.0, you might have issues there.
as far as S.u.s.e and YAST, no matter what else you can say about RedHat, they GPL EVERYTHING. I'm not one of those GPL bigots, but it makes me more comfortable that RPM is a standard that cannot suddently be yanked out from under my feet.
Ghostscript versions are only released under the GPL after
a year of introduction. Redhat would have to pay for it to include
it in the distribution.
.debs are great- and have that no X criteria you are looking for. As mentioned above, it's GPL'd too...
read topic ;)
I think it's cool of Redhat that they decided to ship KDE.
It could be that the market forced them into it but I'm glad
to see that they are not as pigheaded as I feared they were.
I hope that Redhat will now use it's resources to do the things that
need to be done for the good of all, and not try to steer the
natural evolution of Free Software projects.
It comes with a nice "pick your desktop" tool too
It's not GPL at all as it also has netscape 4.0.[78]
By compiling w/Pentium Optimizations, you only gain a few percentage points speedup, and then only in portions of the kernel that are written in C. People should concentrate more on optimizing the code, than relying upon compiler optimizations. The real visible gain in speed with Pentium optimizations will only be 2-3%, which will likely not be noticed by the majority of users out there.
Gimme that gnumeric!
4.08 is the browser only version.
4.5 is the bloated communicator version, with lots of other functions not related to downloading and rendering websites.
C-a, C-e work just fine. ;-)
Umm, what does "got rooted" mean exactly? :)
Please forgive this newbie if the answer is totally obvious...
Means you got cracked and they gave themselves a root account. Probably done by a script kiddie with a rootshell toy.
If only slink would have been available when I bought my Alpha. But it has never seen a RPM after the installation process.
"Real men compile from source, Luke."
When they have a shadow password scheme that's any good, and they include journaled file systems and logical volume manager, then it will be a revolution.
they could offer 5.50 -- but only if they don't ship RHLinux with proprietary components -- which most of us probably dont use.
It's a matter of opinion what's reasonable, and
what "works"
you want them to work like a dos application,
because that's what you're used to, or that's
what you think most people are used to.
A little off topic but...after changing the default run level I was able to get XDM to start correctly, except for the fact that X server starts in 8 bit color. Do you know how to have the x server start up in another color depth by default?
Last poster was completely wrong. 4.08 includes Communicator as well.
The real problem is (a) Communicator 4.5 crashes on mailto: and any sort of Java, (not to mention other security holes) and (b) Communicator 4.51 is only available for libc5 so far.
Well, maybe next time Star Division will write to the public API :)
:)
But never fear, you can probably use it just fine by installing glibc2.0 binaries somewhere, and just write a script to set LD_PRELOAD_PATH before you start StarOffice.
Reminds me of soffice 4 and libc 5.4
You do realise that Gnumeric can't print, and is terribly slow.
Excel97 runs quicker running under wine -- and can export to useful file formats.
Staroffice has a coffee-break feature that is automatically enabled at startup (i.e. ou get a 5-minute coffee-break whilst it loads) -- but does export as some useful format.
I don't know about KSpreadSheet, SIAG sucks etc.
I compile all my RPMs from source :)
if you can't use a mouse for anything, isn't YAST an X program? (or am I ignorant)
...and eat it too?
http://www.vmware.com/
Have your M$ and Linux too.
ftp://ftp.kddlabs.co.jp/.10/Linux/RedHat/dist/star buck/ f tp/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat.com/
I know because my mom told me.
That's not what your mom told me...
Toughest rebels live in the heart of darkness -- imagine there must be a few inside microsoft -- think about that.
I read on kde.org that RedHat is paying two people to help
port KDE to QT2.0. You can all draw your own conclusions
about this, but it seems like a good thing to me.
Has anyone actually managed to get on to ftp.redhat.com and see if it even exists??
I'm downloading 5.9 as I type from a mirror.
KDM works perfectly. If you can't get it working, maybe just read
more manuals and howtos and don't post nonsense about the things you don't understand.
The next release after Starbuck will be named,
of course, "Frappuccino."
whihc one have it cuase im not see any
What is this "C Drive" of which you speak? It sounds strange and wonderful. Are you from another planet?
I'm rather hoping for "Belldany" myself...
Just to let you know, the ultra support is mostly there, but not quite yet. The kernel-2.2.3-5.sparc64.rpm isn't good for booting,
and the install disks can't insert modules.
the C drive is an ancient artifact leftover form the age of the 'Mightily Sucky Defective Operating system". But such things are best forgotten.
eh....pkgtool anyone?
reminded me of kurt vonnegut's _jailbird_...
It's 2.2.3. yummy!
None of the mirrors have it listed. wtfo had it for a while, but they are down now.
Any live mirrors????
umich has the Starbucks source rpms but not
the plain rpms at least as of mid afternoon.
Brookhaven National Labs has the rpms.
i really doubt that the overwhelming majority of computer users give a shit about any of that, but:
:)
(1) what's wrong with shadow passwords (that is, what's worse about Red Hat's than anyone else's)?
You can even enable different crypting (MD5) or long passwords if you want via PAM.
(2) ext2 is under development... journalling and 64-bit files for 32-bit platforms are on their way
(3) a LVM already exists for Linux, check the kernel archives for the URL (it's somewhere in Europe
April 15th.
they hould use Lord of the Rings for a source of names...
Nah, prolly Adama... :)
I just got my shiny new play toy laptop!
:)
Mitsubishi Amity. Not bad for $500 (brand new)
And I am dying to try a brand spanking new Redhat
on it.
Download has already started over the office T-1.
Hope I get it before you guys kill the server or
its bandwidth and time out my connection.
Stay away from it or else....
Redhat's upgrades work amazingly well. Just be sure to do:
find / -name "*rpmsave" -o -name "*rpmorig"
immediately after the upgrade. It also wouldn't hurt to run your integrity checker of choice right before and right after the upgrade and look at the diffs. If you've changed permissions, the upgrade will tend to put them back to the defaults.
It generally takes about an hour to sort the little stuff like that out. I've never had it destroy any configuration; it just puts it in an rpmsave or rpmorig file.
ftp.kddlabs.co.jp/.10/Linux/RedHat/dist/starbuck/
also has it. Though it's in Japan, it's still fast, and I never got a 'user anonymous access denied' message...
The Starbuck family is planning intellectual property action against the coffee company: we are offended that our distinguished family name is being used as a synonym for bad coffee and rapacious yuppiedom. At least without giving us a cut :-)
Jon Meltzer, son of Nancy Starbuck
50 user anon access at ftp.runswithscsissors.com:/pub/RedHat/
;-)
(in full out directory format and in one large ole gobbing tar.gz file)
Play nice
The i386 version, at least.
ftp.cs.fiu.edu/pub/mirrors/starbuck
- =^o.o^=
Damn right, Buffy ROCKS!!!
Try this:
ftp.debian.org/pub/debian/dists/slink/
This link will fix all of the bugs in your Red Hat Kiddies....
You won't believe the increase in stability and overall quality!!!
:-)
Hey everyone, I just installed a good chunk of the rpms from 5.9, and everything seems to work ok but my cable modem. It still picks up the card, just the DHCP always times out. As I didn't install a new dhcpcd I'm not sure what else would have affected this. I didn't change my kernel, so that is ruled out. Anyone else having the same problem?
Figured out what was wrong, thought i'd post in case anyone else runs into the same thing. 5.9 wants to use pump as a dhcp daemon, and at least on my setup it doesn't work correctly. To fix it I used netcfg to disable my cable modem at boot, so that it wouldn't try to run pump, then added "dhcpcd" to my /etc/rc.local. Works great now. Sorry for wasting anyone's time..
Unless xfree pulls a fast one, (literaly) 4.0 is way distant. My guess would be about a year to 8 month at best.
There is now a seperate floppy image to do any network install. Its called bootnet.img instead of boot.net. You will only need this one floppy, not another supplemental disk.
RH 5.2 installed the crappy fvwm95, with the menus filled with garbage applications. Plus it's 386 optimized!
:)
Mandrake/Bero's whole purpose is to provide a version of RH that preinstalls and integrates KDE, and comes with a useful set of applications preinstalled. It's meant to be useable right out of the box. And, as you say, since the Bero merger they're going to make it Pentium optimized too.
Given RedHat's GNOME ties, I can't see them ever providing the KDE preinstall/integration and app. support that Mandrake do.
If you want to use Linux as a desktop OS, then Mandrake is a killer disribution!
Wow, a BattleStar Ponderosa (think: Lorne Green) theme to product code names!
Next we'll be seeing "Adama", "Imperious Leader", and "Daggit" releases.
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
I think it's more likely that it's a reference to Battlestar Galactica.
.sig is blasphemous to the Talking Heads! :)
And, your
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
BG was not bad to begin with--it was kind of cutting edge for its day. They lost me with the "Battlestar Galactica Meets C.Hi.P.S" episode.
slashdot broke my sig
Is it me, or is the network install disk broken? It worked for my late february install of rawhide, but I recently tried upgrading, and now it won't connect to anything...
Anyone had any luck with this?
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
-A
Netscape 4.51 does not run so happily until you put libc5.4 into its LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Otherwise if you try to run it against the libc5.3 library that comes stock with Red Hat you will get semi-random JavaScript crashes. This is similar to the problems you had running the old version of StarOffice under Red Hat.
/usr/bin that set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to put the Netscape home directory first in the library search path then call the binary. I also had to do this with the rvplayer to make it work correctly (i.e., set it up with a LD_LIBRARY_PATH). The RPM on the real.com site did not do it for me, and the .tar.gz was linked against libc5.4.
Actually, I plunked libc5.4 into its home directory, and put a script named 'netscape' in
With that hack, 4.51 has been fairly stable (though it still occasionally leaks memory from the text input widget -- but far less than it used to). But obviously this is not something that Red Hat can do on a released version. Besides, according to several news sources 4.51 still has JavaScript security bugs that were fixed in 4.08. (But 4.08 still leaks memory bad in the text widget, sigh).
-- Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Or at least put stuff you don't write specs for under /usr/local.
It's not that hard, and well worth the trouble.
(Yes, I _know_ you were being sarcastic)...
Posted by Asmodean_:
Anyone know if Starbuck is glibc 2.1 based? Last time i tried upgrading to 2.1 I ended up reinstalling.
Redhat is not a very good distro in terms of what they give, personally I always liked Slackware, but then again I've gotten into the habit of pretty much compiling everything from scratch anyway, so any distro will do for me.
Posted by Just Another Perl Hacker from:
So... does that mean the NEXT release will be
called "Ishmael"??
Posted by hackerzarus:
/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/starbuck/ /linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com/starbuck/
ftp://phyppro1.phy.bnl. gov/pub/mirror/redhat-main/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub
and of course, ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/starbuck/
Posted by hackerzarus:
/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/starbuck/ /linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com/starbuck/
ftp://phyppro1.phy.bnl. gov/pub/mirror/redhat-main/starbuck/
ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub
and of course, ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/starbuck/
Posted by deskjock:
I was doing evaluations of Java Charting Applets for work -- With NS 4.5 it crashed 18 of 20 tries...on totally different applets. NS 4.51 actually worked on 18 of 20....Imagine that.
Posted by aalain:
Finally, I say goodbye to the need to create custom install-disks to be able to recognize an Ultra2.
It's been a pain, but I have been running RH5.2 with 2.2.3. The upgrade from 5.1 with 2.1.x was painful, as I had to create a custom upgrade disk...
Now, if only OpenSound releases drivers for the latest sound cards...droool....
--Alain
wtfo.com has everything today, but it is SLOW
I wish ftp.cs.buffalo.edu would get it - they're VERY fast for me. (Same backbone)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I've found ONE Starbuck mirror
ftp.wtfo.com - SLOW.
I've found many mirrors w/o starbuck:
ftp.cdrom.com
ftp.unet.brandeis.edu
ftp.cs.buffalo.edu (Personal favorite mirror)
ftp.cc.gatech.edu
ftp.ilstu.edu
ftp.eecs.umich.edu
metalab.unc.edu
ftp.tux.org
ftp.codemeta.com
In short, EVERY mirror I've tried. wtfo.com is a fluke.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
From the mirrors, it's dead. Very dead. MAKE SURE you have a good copy of it before you try to install! (Installation will not show an error.)
:(
I was an idiot and backed up the wrong home directory on my system before doing a reinstall. (Didn't upgrade because I wanted to repartition.)
I lost my mail filters, forgot how to recreate them, AND I lost all of my mail!
Didn't help that I tried a RawHide a few days ago. BAD IDEA!
Seems a bit glitchy to me, especially the default E theme. (The menu is obscenely tiny)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Gee, why would anyone want to abandon SCO?
It's so much fun working on a machine that can't even compile "hello 1.000 world" out of the box.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
Every line of code written at RedHat is released under the GPL. Hard to be a monster when you don't clench your grubby fingers around some IP rights. RedHat is also a nice bunch of people.
By the way, I run Debian now. I still respect RedHat and I think it's the right distribution for a great many people. They are NOT Microsoft -- my suspicion is that the screwiness of certain parts of the filesystem is due to well-intentioned attempts at standardization, and that's the only stupid nit I really have to pick with RH.
Adobe, Sun, IBM, Apple, HP, Compaq, and Cygnus all make a great deal more from their "freed" code than RedHat ever will; to call them "monsters" is disingenuous.
Back under the bridge, you!
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
Adobe hasn't ever freed any code AFAIK.
Sorry about that.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
I've downloaded a bunch of stuff recently via the RPM database link they have on the front page. Unlike using the mirrors, it has a handy front end with alphabetic sort, etc.
Of course, now that'll be slashdotted and I'll never be able to download from Red Hat again...
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Otherwise, they are always very up-to-date and more importantly, fast!
I've never seen Cheapbytes selling the "rawhide" version... I assume that's what this is or will become.
Sounds good to me! That's the best TV show on right now.
So what? Netscape 4.51 runs quite happily on a stock Redhat 5.2 installation. Those legacy libraries are there for a reason, namely apps that insist on using libc5.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
They have had an unstable tree for quite a while..... Did somebody somehow miss the press releases on RawHide?
sigs are a waste of space
RedHat is using ProFTPD for their ftp server. I realize why and I have been using it for a long time as well, it is just a better, faster, more configurable server. They obviously think so, that is why their ftp site runs it. Why isn't it in their distribution. I even emailed them with this question but got no reply.....
That means no StarOffice. Shit. I know it's StarDivisions fault (not Red Hat's) - but when are they going to come up with a patch?
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Why not 5.50 - the bugs in 5.10 are really irritating (in ps2pdf and when trying to create nUP printouts).
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
I _really_ hate this - how do you fix itÂ
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Naaa, the next version should be Boomer, but they'll probably call it Buffy....
Who is Seg Fault, and what is he doing with Kernel Space?
If you want GNU/Linux distribution based solely on quality then use Debian! Red Hat are too interested in pushing out another version out the door to roll in more cash!!!
:-)
My experience of Red Hat has been that it SUX - plain and simple!
Anyone in Australia who's used the Red Hat Pocket Book will understand what I'm saying here
They would be best to just ftp release 5.9 and do massive bug tracking, then _just_ bugfix for 6.0 without putting in new stuff... to speed up 6.0's release, and insure it is more stable, IMHO.
for those who wanna see what is in there.
kdm, gdm, wdm, and all the xdm replacements are way alpha! I haven't got any of them to work at all. They all seem to work ok for normal GUI login, but none of them have a working chooser, so there is not much point in using them on a LAN.
Your probably missing this line in your XF86Config file:
DefaultColorDepth 32
RPM directories are empty... If they started a mirror, they didn't finish it.
A cool looking login thing like login.app, kdm, gdm, etc... Can be found at ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/genec/
Believe me, I understand it. It doesn't work. I have tried it, I have read the docs. Unless it's changed in the last 2 weeks, it is not finished.
KDM works for general logins, and that's all. XDM is a tool to allow more than just general logins from localhost, it has a chooser implemntation, allows remote logins, and allows you to choose a remote host to login to also. KDM doesn't even include a chooser, and when you use -query or -indirect it cause X to respawn to the point where it could potentially distroy a monitor!
I don't think you realize what xdm is, and what it does, and what kdm is missing. And your flame is was un-nessessary, considering you haven't looked at the man pages and how-to's yourself, becuase it's clear it's missing chooser.
As a matter of fact KDM actually "invents" a chooser "2.2 Different window managers with kdm (chooser)" which is NOTHING to do with the actual xdm chooser! chooser allows a user to choose the SYSTEM to login to, not the window manager to be used. So, this was something where kde even went out of bounds with conventional X standards on.
For a single un-networked system, KDM is fine I guess, but for LAN management of multiple systems, KDE isn't there yet, sorry.
However, the real problem is RedHat's continued neglect of DDD. Now it works with lesstif, there's simply no excuse not to include it. Yes, I know it's available on the powertools CD, but when every other conceivable development tool is shipped on the main CD, omitting a decent graphical debugger is criminal.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
That's a negative at sunsite and at cdrom.com.
anyone else have any better luck?
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Then we'll get Loren Greene, and then we can start on the Bonanza names.
RH 6.2:Hoss, RH 6.5:Hop Sing
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
KDE, GNOME, Windowmaker 0.51.2, 2.2.3 kernel,
XFree86 3.3.3.1
oh yes.
Mesa *would* be great.
Er, actually, 4.08 is available in both Communicator (web-mail-news) and Navigator (web-only) versions. I haven't yet seen a Navigator version of 4.5.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Clearly, this is a Battlestar Galactica reference and not a tribute to the Microsoft of coffee pushers. See, the last release was "Apollo", and he was Starbuck's buddy on the Battlestar...
Not so much a sig as a lack of one.
Starbucks is great coffee for those of us who
don't like the regular stuff. I can just taste the iced vanilla frapuccino right now...
I believe it's in there in anticipation of the new license. If the new Qt isn't out and working with the stable KDE release when we are ready to ship, I *believe* we will have to remove KDE.
Basically, if there is a stable KDE release that works with a QPL released Qt, then we'll probably ship it. Otherwise, we'll have to pull it.
I should probably verify all this before posting, but I'm pretty sure this is the state of things right now.
--Donnie
"Ahab" is at least as possible as "Adama."
You won't regret it.
^A, ^E, ^P, ^N, ^K, ^F, ^B
alt-B, alt-F
shift-PGUP
shift-PGDN
That's a total of 11 commands, hardly a chore, and you will be flying around the CLI like a wizard with just those (no need to move your hands around to hit "home" or "del" keys).
And you learn emacs to boot :-)
Really, it's a shell thing isn't it? Why not have bash add a "PC Keyboard" key binding set, like it does for vi and emacs?
support gun control: take guns from cops
They send it to the mailing list, pretty funny message too, it's probably on linuxtoday.com, go read it... /Seva
Seems reasonably up to date; kernel 2.2.3, xfree 3.3.3.1 etc. May be worth me updating to get a "clean" linux 2 installation. I've been busily upgrading stuff (kernel, X, gnome) breaking RPM dependencies all over the shop. Telling RPM "I know better than you do" is a real PITA.
--
This could also be a reference to Moby Dick, or to a certain coffee shop. Just what we need, another Starbucks !@#$#@E@#.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Now if I could only just ever log into ftp.redhat.com
I noticed the same thing, but never fear - there is a source RPM of initscripts-3.96-4.
Otherwise, all I can say is kick-ass! new GNOME, new KDE, new e, new Windowmaker, 2.2.3 kernel... I'm going to be setting up my new machine in a week or two, and I know what distro's going on it :-)
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
- Yes, all versions of netscape crash on mailto's.
- 4.5 (and 4.08) are available in both libc5 and glibc versions. Officially the glibc version is unsupported, but it's there.
- The libc5 version crashes if you look at it funny. Like, try loading freshmeat with it!
- The glibc version crashes almost never.
- Both are available as either a navigator-only or a full communicator package
- 4.5 (even glibc) still leaks memory from the text widget, 'tis true. Don't try to write a long email in a web-based mailer!
What my question was is, why the hell doesn't redhat have 4.5? And while they're at it, why don't they throw us a bone and include the glibc unsupported (but functional) one?!It's good to see GNOME and KDE together at last though :)
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
pcmcia-cs-3.0.9
Named after a coffee shop? I think not. I just assumed that it was named after the character from Battlestar Galactica.
I'm practically blind. I can't stand using a mouse for anything but what is absolutely required to get things done. Any release of any Linux distribution won't be on my systems if X is required for anything rudimentary. This includes package management.
Also, the only Linux distro that has ever been clear-cut with regard to PPP for me is Slackware. I have a dynamic-IP connection to Concentric.net, and several local machines on a "domainless" network that uses the 172.17.X.X range for local addresses only. When I try to configure Red Hat for this environment, I always seem to have problems.
When I find solutions for those two issues, I might switch from Slackware to something. At this point, it would probably be S.u.s.e because of YAST.
--------------Rev. C.C.Chips---------------- For the real truth, visit
I have been to the umich site the wtfo.com site the german site and the japanese site. All of them have starbuck dirs but lack anything in the RPMS directory under i386/RedHat/
Anyone find a full mirror site or is this gonna be like the release of 5.2, closed dirs all over the place ?
You need to install 5.9 so I can rewt you!
There are two major products to come out of Berkeley: UNIX and LSD.
We do not believe this to be a coincidence.
Of course it's not a coincidence! Both were produced under contract to the Defense Department.
Mesa, any sort of vrml, netscape 4.5, lyx, grace, ... I'm sure I can think of some more. I'm sure some of these will appear when there is support for decent hardware 3D.
Davo -- Free speech, free software, AND free beer.
..if you're looking for starbuck and can't find it anywhere..
152.2.175.120
/pub/starbuck
Jeff
I've moved my site from my main machine to my new FTP server - the new IP is 152.2.167.46
(anonymous)
this only happenes with red-hat.
Slackware or Debian and SuSE all compile fine and will allow you to compile everything well, Red-hat has been broken cince 4.1 and will continue to be that way.. If you wanna be a newbie use redhat if you want to be a power user use something else.
Dont get me wrong, RedHat has a place, just like windows95 has a place. I just wish that redhat would have stayed with the standards instead of doing their own thing and making a distrib that wont compile 50% of the software out there. Backwards compatability is a good thing, and you dont really need to use the latest alpha libs.. wait till they are production releases and ignore the idiot programmers that publish software that requires bleeding edge libs.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Oh you forgot that the standard network and ppp stuff under red-hat is so stinking cryptic that you need to delete crap out of the rc.d dir's for a week to get it clean. redHat is so reliant on X for config it's not funny, but it's not designed for power users, it's designed for a desktop replacement in a computer-moron (Read NT Certified) environment.. I have yet to meet a MSCE that can use a OS that isnt point and click, so red-hat was designed to dumb down linux so MSCE's can understand it. It has it's place, it's a great product for it's place and It will do great as a workstation product. All my workstations use it, and all software is compiled on the servers (slackware of course!) to avoid the RED-HAT non reverse compatability problem
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It would be fine if they followed a standard like slackware, debian and SuSe does...
If 3/4 of the major distribs do it one way than doing it different is non compliant.
I prefer to have skills that are transportable instead of being release specific... kinda like MS... noone else does it the way MS does, and redhat wants to do the same, otherwise the network admin guide would work under REDHAT
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You mean follow Debian's example (ok... maybe not the time-frame on slink...). Debian always has the unstable tree as a "release", it just isn't publicized as much.
--
Building everything by hand is great if you have to time to do it, however, it does take a lot of time that could be better used on code.
That said, I hope RedHat gets their act together and gets back on the quality train. While they aren't the only distribution, they do tend to be the most visible (and the one that gets picked on), so for them to lax in quality is really a hit for everyone.
--
i've found it's generally more than 2-3%. Also, it can speed up more than just the kernel. I know my copy of snes9x that I compiled w/ -O9 -mcpu=pentiumpro -march=pentiumpro had sigificant speed improvements, about 20fps. (I went from about 35fps to 55fps, that's a nice speed increase).
-matt
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com /starbuck
Was KDE out of redhat becuase it Qt wasn't open source, or becuase it was incompatible with the GPL?
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
It does not crash on "any sort of Java". I'm using it right now. It does crash, but it's certainly usable, and lots of java stuff works fine. It crashes less than Windoze does.
Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity
...Nothing interesting here. Just move along...
Anyone know if this will be offered on CD either by Redhat or someplace like cheapbytes?- ---------------
------------------------------------
Jamin Philip Gray
jgray@writeme.com
http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
Celebrate the finer things in life
Put this in your ~/.inputrc and restart bash:
$if term=xterm
"\C-?": delete-char # xterm delete
"\e[\C-@": beginning-of-line # xterm home
"\e[e": end-of-line # xterm end
$else
"\e[3~": delete-char # linux delete
"\e[1~": beginning-of-line # linux home
"\e[4~": end-of-line # linux end
$endif
Nothing more to say.
You must admit redhat is quite popular,
This one is defenetly a killer.
GNOME, KDE, Linux 2.2.3, glibc 2.1...
This is revolution, baby,
not just bugfixes (planned for 6.0, heheh)
Hopefully,
A nice X installer will do everything for you.
and, a question,
what about upgrades from 5.2?
I never upgraded a RedHat Linux,
and I do have many of the packages listed
(but I compiled them myself)
Will the upgrade fuck it?
should I just copy all my stuff and make a nice clean one?
and another question,
I have a PC with unsuppored videocard,
will it be possible to use fbcon X without tweaking? I tweaked my PC enough and it just refuses to work properly.
---
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
It's because of the QPL,
the reason that they didnt put it in 5.2 is lisencing problems.
But since TrollTech/Qt is now QPL'd it gives redhat an excuse to put KDE in it.
and ofcourse,
sales is important too.
(though I do not understand why putting kde when gnome is done and autoinstalled by default)
---
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
Well, about XF86Setup,
it's just not friendly enough,
and I rather edit the X config file myself.
but I do like that stuff work out of the box,
recompiling kernel/editing manualy is not fun.
ezLinux is:
1. beta.
2. CLOSED SOURCE (not the kernel, but you get my point)
3. IS NOT AVAILIBLE FOR FREE DOWNLOAD
4. CANNOT BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED
5. uses kde (i like gnome, do i have a choice - no)
6. a copy of M$ Wind-ooz (registry???)
7. many other bad things.
It's the non-linux.
unfortunatly, since I'm not familiar with any other frienly installers,
I cannot recommend a better linux for my friends.
Thats why I hope redhat will have GUI installer,
and even more, that debian will have one.
I have not updated everything,
but i do like to be cutting edge (I have the new kernel, cvs gnome)
I'm scared that the rpm's will have problems.
I had such problems before (with gtk)
rpm wont overwrite current libraries,
and some rpm dependent on the library will not install,
some will install but won't work properly.
I think I'll keep this machine running 5.2 (argh)
and save my newer machine for 6.0
---
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
were going to see the boys at Redhat labs go. sorry kde is policatly licesned wrong but were still going to go ahead and kill the other Distros cause we cant get off our ass and get GNOME working...
btw anonymous female if your reading this then you should know your like my dram girl and stuff
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
Let's leave Cylon to the Microsoft distro... Chris
Chris
So Buddha walks into a pizza parlor and says: "Hey, make me one with everything."
I'd love to see this kind of attitude succeed in a corporate IT environment *not*
"well, sir, I know you told me to install AIX 4.2 weeks ago...but that's a lame idea, so I'm doing it MY way"
heh
"All that glitters is not gold"
"Patch" in StarDivisionese = "another 70M download"
-tak
Redhat folks are sendind it out... LSL said about 2 wks.
The thing is, using the Aladdin License definition of "proprietary", Netscape is proprietary (and I believe Netscape 5.0 will also be, considering the mail stuff is still closed due to some weird issues). We DO use Netscape.
All of You ! Stop trying connecting into RedHat ! ;-p
Let me in instead...
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
Does anyone know if you get GNOME by default
rather than that wretched Win95-alike thing
of 5.2 ?
Since the last one was Apollo?
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?
Watch 6.0 be Boomer or Adama or something.
Blech. Signatures.
Well, this is exactly the type of thing
RH needs to hear before they make it the official 6.0 release. Tell 'em "YOU FORGOT THIS! DUH!" and they may just go, "oh YEAH! What were we thinking?" And put it in there.
Who knows, there may be a legit reason it's not there.
Put DOOM Back in! Put DOOM Back in! *snicker*
Blech. Signatures.
I know it's not a mirror, per se, but if anyone is looking for the glibc 2.1 RPMs you can get them here:
http://www.27.org/linux/redhat/glibc2.1/
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Is it just me or does this sound a lot like Starbucks the coffeshop. Do you think they could get sued for copyright infringment. I mean both companies deal with Java. Plus what reference could they have been making, what other Starbucks is there.
"It also has nothing to do w/ coffee. :) " :)!
Well, like I said before it they both serve
"Java"
check http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.html
everyone of those mirrors I've checked has it.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.html
Every one of those I've checked has mirrors of Starbuck.
Just for informational sake for all the people who actually think they could EVER get into ftp.redhat.com. That site is so slow and so busy its not even funny.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I'm in there right now, and these are the big things I see right now. I am gonna reply to this message with a directory listing of the RPMS so that it's not on the main page
see subject.
Haha. Kinda silly, dontcha think? That the whole rest of the website doesn't mention it at all. But there it is, right on the main page in the little Slashdot segment.
Didn't read any classics in high school, eh? Starbuck is the first mate in the novel "Moby Dick", written long before the coffee chain popped up everywhere. I think Starbucks the coffee company might have a hard time if they wanted to get annoyed at RH over this.
Beef Linux 1.666 will be released next week with my own "custom" set of drivers.
--
Beef
"Raging Moderate" of the
I've been on the look-out for gnome-1.03 stuff since the sources came out a few days. No joy there. I'm sure many people out there, while they might not be willing to upgrade everything in the universe, would be interested in upgrading their Gnome stuff, on the off chance that all the bugs got fixed.
Hmm...guess I better throw in a smiley here for the humor-impaired.
King Babar
Babar
oh great... right after I got the Board to consider upgrading from SCO to 5.2 now I gotta go back and sell them on this??????
Ok Ok Ok I'll stop whining..... for now
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
Oh Yeah..... I totally agree with that, My first comment was more of a tongue in cheek attitude towards it.. However if 6.0 is vaguely as stable as 5.2 was, It may be well worth my effort to weigh new advances and features to begin a test server on..... hmmmm maybe I can talk them into letting me run a QuakeII server off one of our PowerEdge's for testing purposes......
Just Kidding AGAIN
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
Well, I can't speak to the installation procedure on RH 5.2, but for future releases Mandrake has been mumbling about X-based installation. Plus a default easy KDE setup. But I agree that Mandrake no longer has much of an edge, however, Bero has the key feature that it is Pentium optimized. Why the hell should we all be running code compiled for a 386? Is anyone actually going to be dumb enough to try and run GNOME on a 386?
--JZ
Seems they have KDE stacked in there. Interesting...
heh. Yeah, I guess they are giving the ppl what they want or something. It's good to distribute your desktop along with the other desktop. At least that fosters some co-operation.
--- hoping one day they will both merge into one..
Lowmag.net
And did they have to draw associations with that chain of putrid coffee shops by calling it "Starbuck"? At least they could have called it "Pippin" or "Queequeg". :D
Oh, okay, I didn't know the last release was Apollo, so my first thought was Starbuck from Moby Dick, after whom the B.G. character was presumably named.
And while I still definitely prefer Debian as a distro, I do think Battlestar Galactica is a better source of names than "Toy Story" (Slink, Hamm, Potato...) Maybe Redhat will do a Cylon or Daggit release at some point in the future. :D
Cool stuff I saw in this release:
Let me know when it's tested & ready for prime time.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
QT's QPL license is Open Source, stop beating this dead horse, you're making a mess.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
This assumes that the final version of Starbuck/Redhat 6 includes Qt 2.0, which is the version that uses the QPL license.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Since NIS+ is supported by glibc2.1, I wonder if setting up a RH6.0 using NIS+ will be supported/enabled/simple to configure...
In the rpms listing, QT and KDE are there...
I admit it, I had RH 5.1 and got rooted. At least twice. Got 5.2 now and use ipchains, no probs since.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Do the X servers or the X font servers have the truetype/freetype/whathaveyou support rolled in?
Ryan
Since this is a pre-6.0 release, I wouldn't think a CD of this would be available. This is also dependent on their release schedule for 6.0...
If nothing else, try linuxmall in a couple of weeks, they might have something available.
Anyone have an idea when xfree86 4 will be around? is this an option for RH 6? Or still in the distant horizon?
I can't get it to work with expert mode. It autoprobes for my PCI-devices no matter what I try.
The install program on my disk is built Mar 13 1999 15:23:45
My real problem is that my HP Kayak freezes when it loads the module for the internal PCnet/PCI ethernet card.
Has anybody booted this disk in expert mode?
And did they have to draw associations with that chain of putrid coffee shops by calling it "Starbuck"?
It made me think of Battlestar Galactica, that putrid excuse for a science fiction show.
I can see it now, RedHat Linux 6.0 (Baracus release), it's helluva tough!!! I pity da foo' who runs Windows!
I love it when a plan comes together, ha ha ha!
-- A wealthy eccentric who marches to the beat of a different drum. But you may call me "Noodle Noggin."
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Mebbe that's why they added the /. box to their page -- saves them the trouble of updating their own news. :)
-------
Losing your faith is a lot like losing your virginity
you don't realise how irritating it was 'til it'
Given that Starbucks took their name from a Melville novel (Moby Dick), this is highly unlikely. It also has nothing to do w/ coffee. :)
I am a user, it doesn't matter what distro at all. I prefer rh for its simplicity, but slack is just as good. With this nice new pre-release of rh, with XFree 3.3, and kernel 2.2, and other new stuff people seem to like, how long are we expected to wait for (what ?true? linux users say is the best) slack to get its ass in gear. Quite frankley, I'm dissapointed in the slack developers, its libc5, it seems to refuse to ship with packaging system (for the newbies) and so forth. It would be nice if slack (and other distros for that matter) could agree to ship with dpkg or rpm, (or whatever).
I'm also sick of hearing people whine about how RedHat sucks cause it uses rpms, and how everyone should 'Use the Source Luke.' I ask you, what Linux distro doesnt use a standard (for it) packaging system? Slackware is the only one that comes to mind.
Linux is Linux. Its as simple as that. Slack, rh, debian, caldera, suse, stampede, turbo, IT DOES NOT MATTER!
Just downloaded and tried to install starbuck for i386. All said and done, initscripts is missing. I have verified this on at least two mirrors. Did this one slip through the cracks?
Note, you can only startup single user mode without it.
"Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with any Microsoft Product."
I've noticed two things after upgrading tonight:
/usr/bin ../sbin/sendmail newaliases
:)
1) the sendmail package is slightly broken, the newaliases link is invalid. Simply do this to fix:
cd
rm newaliases
ln -s
2) The imap package seems to be really broken. I couldn't get ipop3d to authorize any of my logins (it kept saying bad login). I simply grabbed the old imap-4.4-2.i386.rpm off my RH5.2 CD and downgraded. Everything worked fine from there...
rpm -e imap
rpm -ihv imap-4.4-2.i386.rpm
On a positive note- this new release is really quite kickass. The new install program is a godsend (being able to actually SEE what a package is all about before installing is really helpful). I've not tried out any of the new Gnome/e/KDE stuff since I don't have a monitor for my box and never use X anyway... I like the new "[OK]" stuff for the rc.* files
I have had great luck with XF86Setup, maybe it should be used as default instead of Xconfigurator...BTW, has any of you used EIT's EasyLinux? Seems to have a good, easy, graphical X configuration program.
:) But it is not problematic. Just watch the .log after installing - I skipped it once, and all of my security configuration became shit, because my config files were renamed .rpmsave (or something like that) and were replaced by stock configuration files! :-/
About upgrading from another RedHat version, it usually goes smoothly - If you updated everything, there may not be a great deal of stuff to do
Has anyone else had the problem, of not being prompted for an FTP install??? It only seems to allow me to install from HD or CDROM. hmmmmm... WrongWay
I saw a demo of RH-5.8.4 and it included KDE. I knew this because kdm was running as an alternative for xdm. I don't know if this is in place for 5.9, but it's there if not the default.
Do you think the install will autodetect cd-burners?
Peace.
Didn't you know better than to go to Starbuck's before today?
You in Raleigh, tough guy?
Peace.
I didn't know that. The machine I saw was a stand alone at a Red Hat promotion thingy. It was definitely running kdm, some .99 version of gnome and enlightenment-0.xx. Maybe kdm is less alpha than gdm?
I just use "startx" for my linux-machine here, and all the ultras use xdm. So I've never played with any of these. What's wdm, by the way?
Peace.
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redh at/ only has 5.2
Peace.
not only is this an odd numbered Red Hat release (go on, admit you had RH 5.1 installed and you got rooted!), which is a Bad Thing (historically), but it is also named after the shittiest coffee shop. i know - i'm drinking a cup of Starbuck's Yukon blend crap right now. i should have done what i always do and gone to Cup-O-Joe's, but noooo, i was in a "hurry" today and paid $1.62 for steaming urine from Starbucks. the sad thing is that i knew better, i was sceptical about the Yukon blend too, but i did it anyway.
so wait for 6.0, and brew your own Jamaican Blue Mountain damnit!
-- ken williams
yeah, i knew better the first time i went to Starbucks, and i usually go to COJ's, but i was in a hurry and Starbucks is unfortunately right on the way to work.
yes, i'm in Raleigh, NC too, btw.
you?
-- ken williams
next time you come up to Raleigh/RTP, feel free to contact me for complimentary *real* coffee from Cup-O-Joe's. they do everything right there, and even have a cybercafe full of RH boxes loaded with Afterstep. :-)
Cup-O-Joe's web site (with coffee menu and network details)
http://www.cspot.com/
-- ken williams
cyphersnow busted my cover ;), so i might as well invite anybody who comes to Raleigh NC or RTP to contact me for free coffee from the infamous Cup-O-Joes.
:-)
oh well, i've probably just done the equiv. of declaring bankruptcy by inviting you all here for free coffee, but it'll be worth it to meet slashdot regulars.
-- ken williams
that's a darn good point, and it apparently flew right over my head with the last post. now i'd like to see a thorough demographical analysis of the /. population.
;(
btw, UNC (home of MetaLab/SunSite) doesn't help with their 99% Windows based university network though.
-- ken williams
install RH 5.1 (or any version really), keep all of the default ports and settings, and go to #linux on IRC and ask for help on securing your box. you'll get rooted in no time.
in fact, when i want a free external security audit, i usually do exactly what i described above, but i of course make sure to lock the box down first. just sit back and watch the script kiddies thwap on yer firewall with their exploit scripts, over and over.....
-- ken williams
I set up RedHat (5.2) last weekend on a box configured on two LAN subnets (two NIC's, it routes across the subnets, which are 10.0.3.x and 10.0.4.x) and at the same time to do dial-up to an ISP (dynamic IP), and do IP masquerading for the boxes on the LANs. No X. Box didn't even have a mouse. All for under 200 MB, and that included the Linux source code and c++ development stuff :)
How is redhat reliant on X for config? I set up a Linux box last weekend as a router across two LANs AND as a dial-up ppp box with IP masqeurading, without X and without a mouse. I never had to touch rc.d (What the hell are you trying to do in rc.d, have you never heard of the "setup" program in RedHat?); and ALL configuration could be done in text mode. All setup programs (linuxconf, setup, netconf etc) work in textmode. You can even force linuxconf to use text mode when you're IN X (linuxconf --text).
Perhaps you should first learn how to do various things in RedHat --- complaining that something can't be done, simply because YOU don't know how to do it (after all it IS very different to Slackware), amounts to spreading FUD.
I used to much prefer Slackware; when I first moved to RedHat I couldn't stand it, everything seemed so cryptic and I didn't know how to get anything done. NOW THAT I'VE ACTUALLY LEARNT HOW, though, I prefer RedHat.
It's ok beef. Some of us got the joke.
Agreed, wish there was some way to get autoconf to do a "make install-rpm" or something so that we could keep rpm in a happy state.
I haven't found any mirrors that have 5.9 yet. can anyone point me to one?c om/starbuck had it, but is down :(
ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.
Arg..
Actually, I think the absence of a package manager is one of the strong points of Slackware. Don't get me wrong, of course I use pkgtool and the likes, but anything looking even remotely like the windblows registry makes me nauseous. And there are other reasons, too, for which I went back to good'ol'Slack after giving RedHat a ride...
well at least on 2 mirrors it was but its fine from the redhat ftp site. aight?
ftp://ftp.themes.org/pub/redhat/starbuck/
They've included QT 1.44. AFAIK, this is not under the new QPL, but the same license as before. Only QT2.0+ will be under the new license. A lot of people want KDE on the distro, and now that it's finally got the good press that it deserves, redhat couldn't not put KDE into the distro. The politics at redhat make me sick sometimes. OK, so they want to push the GNOME, but it shouldn't be at the expense of another - currently better - system. (No flames please, I'm not that serious) If redhat had excluded KDE, I wouldn't have bought it.
Anyone had any luck finding mirrors with redhat 5.9?
to "Thank god! You guys are AWESOME!". Needless to say, the truth is
in there somewhere. We've gotten a lot of very constructive thoughts
from www.redhat.com, sure redhat is ok, but i don't like anyone (or anything) that has this attitude. redhat used to be good, redhat 4.2 and such, now its a monster that wants money money money (sharing similar traits to that of microsoft).
did they expect us to treat them with any respect?
he who has the fastest cart always has the best lie.