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"For the quarter the division posted a loss of $348 million on revenue of $1.28 billion, . It's now believed Microsoft may lose as much as $100 per Xbox console sold." Wasn't this illegal? I remember Atari (Jaguar) sued Sony (PlayStation) because Sony was supposedly selling below their cost... So what's the deal here? As for the "general computer", I'm getting the Shuttle XPC.

check out www.shuttleonline.com and check out the SN41G2 model. You can have a PVR/Computer/HTPC all in one nice little box for under $1,000. The reason most people use HTPC's is for high definition projectors. For instance, I have a 61" Sony projection tv that can take in a RGBHV signal. I can set my screen resolution to 1920X1080i and view my dvd/games/whatever at the 1080i high definition spec. Also will come in handy when HDTV signals come in.

Check it out.
J.

They didn't even use a rack mount solution, they used regular Shuttle XPC SS51G Mini-PCs.

I thought Shuttle's Mini-PCs were cool before, but this really resets the scale... Now where is the HOWTO for this thing? ;)

They didn't even use a rack mount solution, they used regular Shuttle XPC SS51G Mini-PCs

I thought Shuttles Mini-PCs were cool before but this really resets the scale... Now where is the HOWTO for this thing? ;)

It appears to be based on this from Shuttle. They changed the color scheme though. :-)

I was torn between building another dual-CPU box (currently on twin 533Mhz Celerons with an ABit BP6 board), or going the small form-factor route. Now I can do both.

More at Shuttle's site.

Cheers,
Ian

The shuttle mini-pc's are a better option because their performance is in-line with a typical pc. The biggest advantage with the newest pentium base shuttle, is that they have an AGP port so it makes it a viable option for LAN party folks, since they can stick a radeon 9700 in there.

With a 50% increase in clock speed, overclocking was well worth it. Even when I spent almost as much on my cooling solution as I did on the processor ($55 for former, $65 for latter). It let me build a system I was happy with for 2+ years at an unbeatable price.

Later, I went to a 800MHz Celeron. Just as I was considering pushing it to a 1.8GHz Celeron through an upgradeware upgrade, a fellow LANner managed to snap two capacitors off my motherboard and fry the whole box. (Don't ask how - and no, he's not going to pony up).

I just didn't see the point in upgrading my box except with processor b/c I was maxed with 1GB of RAM and the box performed (almost) flawlessly. Need ATA-133, pop in a card. Yeah, I only had AGP 2x, but I held my own fraggin' with a low-end GeForce2. If it hadn't been for the accident, I wouldn't have upgraded.

Now I'm the proud owner of a Shuttle SS51G-based system. With a DVD-burner, a smokin' WD 120GB drive, and a GeForce4 Ti 4600 w/VIVO. I wanted to wait for the Athlon/nForce2 based systems to come out in October, but I had a dead box and couldn't really wait. Being an old-school overclocker, I decided to see how far the CPU would go:

I started with a stock 2.4GHz rev B Pentium 4 and cranked it up to 2.52GHz. Went a tad higher, but had to clear CMOS and start over. When I benchmarked the system at different speeds, there was negligible difference. Why make the extra heat? Bah.

My system absolutely smokes. I'm extremely happy and if current trends continue, I won't feel the need to replace this box for another 3-4 years. And the size is perfect for toting to LAN parties. Now I just need a sweet LCD monitor without tracies....

They could sell it even cheaper if they used this tiny case. Why aren't they?

I wonder how LOUD this thing is...

I have a shuttle sv24 and it's really loud. I started peeking and poking inside, and it turns out it's the internal power supply that makes all the noise.

I wonder how loud the other shuttle models are...

I've been waiting for the NV30, but the time to buy a computer is when you need it. For the record, I'm getting a Shuttle SS51. I've been impressed with the little boxes younger brother and have over about fifteen at work now. Disconnect drive cables, undo two thumbscrews, slide drive out. I wish there were an AMD nForce2-based version out right now. <wah>

Like the parent post says (most funny, deserves a mod up):

Any self-respecting geek knows full well that whatever tech product you end up buying, no matter how well researched, no matter how "latest and greatest," will be instantaneously transformed into the lamest piece of outdated old fashioned stone knife and bearskin technology that even your grandfather wouldn't be caught dead using -- the *moment* you pay for it.

I've been waiting for the NV30, but the time to buy a computer is when you need it. For the record, I'm getting a Shuttle SS51. I've been impressed with the little boxes younger brother and have over about fifteen at work now. Disconnect drive cables, undo two thumbscrews, slide drive out. I wish there were an AMD nForce2-based version out right now. <wah>

Like the parent post says (most funny, deserves a mod up):

Any self-respecting geek knows full well that whatever tech product you end up buying, no matter how well researched, no matter how "latest and greatest," will be instantaneously transformed into the lamest piece of outdated old fashioned stone knife and bearskin technology that even your grandfather wouldn't be caught dead using -- the *moment* you pay for it.

I think if they increased the form factor slightly so as to incoporate one agp slot, then they'd really have something. Stick in the latest Nvidia or ATI graphics card and you've got a full fledged PC. Or maybe I'm just talking about those Shuttle mini form factor PC's, though I think the Cappuccino with an AGP slot would still be smaller. Might have to stick in an extra fan though...

The current best fast machine with lots of expandability and a not-outrageous price seems to the be the Shuttle SS40. It's a pretty sexy and silent little box, with firewire to boot. pricewatch suggests this barebones box will run you about $US 350. According to Storage Review, the Seagate Cuda IV is the quietest drive on the market, but the Western Digital JB series are only a bit louder, and their 8mb buffer makes them hella fast. Throw in the fastest Duron or Athlon XP you can get your hands on and some CAS2 DDR, and off you go.

Or you can just go to Smalldog and get the fastest Powerbook G4 you can afford, which serves as a pretty darn good desktop replacement, especially the new one with a 17" LCD attached via the DVI connector (-:.

I think that will determine your search more than absolute size. Afterall, you could get a webserver the size of a matchbox, but it'd be pretty lousy as a user workstation... If you want really dense servers, check into the "blade" fad. If you want really tiny user workstations, look into Shuttle's line of small and quiet most-everything-is-integrated barebones PCs (they've got pci slots for that extra nic or whatever). And of course there are all kinds of tiny single board computers for industrial applications.

Product specs are available too at http://www.shuttleonline.com/spec.php3?model=ss40.

Product specs are available too at http://www.shuttleonline.com/spec.php3?model=ss40.

Here it is:

http://www.shuttleonline.com/

Shuttle also has plans for a SS40 model, which is very similar to the SS50, except for supporting AMD processors instead of the Pentium 4. It also uses the SiS chipset (745), which is very similar to the 645 Pentium-4 chipset (same GF2MX-level integrated graphics), and is even better than the surprising 735 chipset.

Check out Shuttle's SS40 system. Basically the same I/O layout but takes AMD XP and Duron processors up to 2 GHz.

SS40 Socket A

Don't know what I can do about dual nics and $9.95 price tag. Ask for something else, maybe I can get that done too.

SS40 Socket A

Don't know what I can do about dual nics and $9.95 price tag. Ask for something else, maybe I can get that done too.

shutleonline

You can. The SS40 answers your question.

The SV24 isn't getting smaller. It's getting bigger. Shuttle is going to introduce updated versions of their minibox called the SS40 and SS50. The cases will be slightly bigger by about 1-2 cm per side. The SS40 will support socket A (for AMD chips) and the SS50 will support socket 478 for Intel P4's. The boards will have 2 PCI slots instead of the SV24's one. It'll have a SiS chipset on the mobo, DDR RAM support, improved graphics, 5.1 channel audio, LAN, USB, FW, and S-Video.

The SV24 isn't getting smaller. It's getting bigger. Shuttle is going to introduce updated versions of their minibox called the SS40 and SS50. The cases will be slightly bigger by about 1-2 cm per side. The SS40 will support socket A (for AMD chips) and the SS50 will support socket 478 for Intel P4's. The boards will have 2 PCI slots instead of the SV24's one. It'll have a SiS chipset on the mobo, DDR RAM support, improved graphics, 5.1 channel audio, LAN, USB, FW, and S-Video.

(Specs here)

This thing has PS/2, video, audio, 2 USB, 2 firewire, an expantion slot (PCI), takes up to a 1100MHz S370 CPU, and a gig of ram.

Contrast this to the mobo from the story, which has an integrated CPU (yuck!, plus it's a Cyrix based, double-yuck!) and no firewire.

I'm using the FV-24 for a project of mine and am VERY happy with it. Plus, it was only about 150USD retail, and it's already out there, available.

err... here's a better link:
http://www.shuttleonline.com/sv24.htm

I didn't find them as quiet as other reviewers have - the fan noise is definitely noticeable, but not terribly loud. Like Tom's Hardware, I really wished they'd gone with a GeForce2-based integrated video card solution. You could slap in a PCI version if you want to sacrifice your single slot and disable the integrated video. DVI-out instead of VGA would have been even sweeter, so I could mate this with an LCD monitor for a sweet little LAN party box that I can carry in one load (without breaking my back). But it's hard to complain with VGA out and front-mounted USB/mike/audio. It also looks pretty cool and is surprisingly light.

I didn't have an opportunity to snag one for Linux or FreeBSD, so I don't know how well my favorite *nix distros run on them, but I can't wait to find out. I'm fully satisfied with them in our office environment - you can put a couple of them under your desk without splitting open your knee on the case. I highly recommend them.

• Shuttle FV24 motherboard Flex ATX form factor, sound, video, network built on.
  
• VIA C3 processors. Not as fast as some other processors, but you can use a passive heatsink instead of needing a CPU fan to cool it down ( less moving parts to break, and less noise).
  
• Alpha U60-V25C passive heatsink.
  
• Disk on module. I couldn't get the Shuttle machines to netbook from their build-in ethernet, so I added a disk on module to store the boot code (for Etherboot). The disk on modules plug directly into the IDE slot on the motherboard and are recognized as IDE drives.
  
• A small case. I cant find the one I used, but there are several Micro-ATX or Flex-ATX cases out there.
  

I picked up the shuttle FV24 and and one of these. The board fits perfectly. I attached a 2.5in HDD inside lid with Velcro and laid some foam packing uder the Mobo for insulation then broke out the Dremel. There isn't any room to utilize the lone PCI slot (though a TV in card would be cool) and I'm still looking for a good power supply solution but this will rock when it's done.

Take a look at this barebones toaster sized machine for $250 available for purchase from here.

It comes with mobo, and power supply, on board ether, s3 savage4 agp (even tv out), audio (only 2 channel), usb, firewire, plus one pci slot. I personally put a wintv card in it so I can use it as a tv, and a dvd drive to play dvd, but you could easily put in a dolby 5.1 card instead of the wintv card.

I put a 1 ghz celery in it, but as it stands it's rather noisy, casefan + cpu fan + psu fan + hd. But if you get a via c3 it should be able to run without a cpu fan.

It also should be possible to also hack out the small, noisy case fan that it has now and put in larger, and quieter case fan. Dremmel tool is probably required for this one, or a very nimble hand with tin snips. :)

Another thing you might to do quiet it up a bit is search for silent drives, I think seagate either makes or is going to make a quiet ide drive. There's also sleaves you can get for ide drives to quiet them, but that might require your only 5.25 bay, which means you'd then need a usb or firewire dvd drive.

Mine's more of a do it yourselfer but it has pretty much standard hardware, and should have enough horsepower to do pretty much anything that you'd want to do with it, sans FPS games, because of the slow 3d video. 2d is fine though.

sv24=$250 via c3~$70? hd=$100-150, dvd drive=$60? You pretty much have a machine after that, and any thing else is optional.

Do you already have all this equipment, or are you planning to kit out the room after you move in?

If you plan ahead, you ought to be able to set up with all the gear you need, without using too much power/making too much heat.

Start with one big Linux server. Equip it with a ridiculous amount of RAID storage: how about 3 or 4 80 GB drives in a RAID 5 configuration; that's 160 GB or 240 GB right there. Use a 2-processor SMP Socket A motherboard, and a couple of Athlon MP chips. (When the .13 micron version of the Athlon MP comes out, you can get a speed boost and a heat reduction in one go, so I'd get the cheapest Athlon MP chips available.) With that amount of CPU horsepower you can do Linux software RAID for free (just make sure each IDE drive has its own controller, i.e. only one drive per cable) and still have lots of power left over for running server software.

Now I assume you want some number of other computers for various purposes. At a minimum you want one firewall. If you want a server exposed to the net you really want two firewalls, with the net server behind one and your really big Linux server behind both firewalls (and the second one should be really locked down!). For these extra computers, you ought to look at using the Shuttle SV24, with a VIA C3 chip. The SV24 has little expansion capability, so it only has a little power supply, so it only makes a little heat. The C3 dissipates about as much power as a night light ( 7 Watts) typical and 11 Watts max according to the Via web site. You don't even need a fan on the heatsink: a simple passive heatsink is enough for a C3! For firewall use, put an extra net card in the single PCI slot on the SV24.

Because Linux can boot off a floppy (try that with Windows XP Professional Server sometime) you can set up the SV24 boxes with just a floppy and a whole lot of memory. If you can get a net boot working with the built-in 100 Mbps Ethernet, you don't even need the floppy.

Of course your personal workstation/gaming boxes can run hot with fast CPUs and fast 3D graphics cards and such, but those probably won't be in the server room!

Unless you are planning to invest in a render farm or Beowulf cluster, you should be able to get everything you need running, and it shouldn't get too hot.

steveha

I recenlty bought an SV24. ( $250 from MWave ) A very small barebones PC that's a little larger than a toaster, but kinda noisy. (hopefully I can fix that with maybe a via c3 cpu with no cpu fan and maybe hacking in a quieter case fan) Put Debian linux on it (needs new xfree86 savage driver, or linux locks up hard upon start of x, sound works fine, I used alsa), stuffed in a TV tuner card, 1gz celeron, and dvd drive, loaded roomjuice on it (mentioned above) and some mp3s and voila, a nice little home entertainment PC. Complied mplayer on it, it plays dvd's, avi's, divx movies, mpgs, vcds, etc. Use xawtv to watch tv. (actually I use wmtv for wmaker, mplayers new tv junk wouldn't work :( ) I still have my vcr doing the channel tuning/recording though. Maybe that'll change someday when I have time to figure out a good way make it record like a vcr. Still have to get my remote that came with my tv tuner card working as well. Just haven't had the time yet. I'm currently using a 17" monitor as my viewing device, as it is bigger than my old 13" tv. :) But the SV24 has vga, svideo, and composite out, so you can use whatever. The machine also has 4 usb ports, 2 firewire (well it's technically not called that, heh), serial, paralell, I skipped the installing a floppy drive, who needs em anymore? :) Anyway it's an interesting project, my next thing I guess is to make everything better integrated somehow, so every thing can be controlled via a mouse or other pointing device somehow, and easy enough for my mom to figure out. It's almost there using "gentoo" off of freshmeat. But it would be nice to have a custom program.

Sorry a lot of the above is lot of disconnected information/thoughts, but it's hard to compose a decent post in a 60x10 box that /. gives me, I know, I should just compose everything in vim first, so sue me. :) Why don't people use big text area boxes anyway? The small ones I always annoy me, maybe if you could resize them with mozilla. That would be nice. :)

Perhaps its just that geeks prefer to hack things apart more than hacking them together?

http://www.shuttleonline.com/sv24.htm

I disagree, the new shuttle "PC Cube" Model SV24 is probably the best cabinet for the mame emulator. It is small, light and very quiet. It also has a TV out and network port as well as USB AND Firewire.
Granted it doesn't have a normal gameport, but with USB you can get just about any controller for it, or just get a HotRod controller that uses the keyboard port.
At $250 USD it is hard to find anything better, especially since it has an Aluminum Case.

I haven't got any pictures together yet but I've just squeezed a Celeron@1.1GHz (OCed of course) into a Sun SparcStation LX box.

I used an excellent motherboard from shuttle (the 7"x7.5" FV24) which includes almost everything onboard (from audio to network via firewire. Everything), so the build was easy.

I got the idea from a similar project I saw over at this place but because the FV24 is so tiny I managed to get everything, including a 1U psu, in the standard LX box.

It looks very odd indeed with my massive monitor perched on top... Retro modding is the way forward :)