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Xbox Losses Double, Xbox Shrinks
seldo writes "According to ITWorld, losses in the last quarter at Microsoft's Home and Entertainment segment have doubled. From the article: 'The segment, which also includes Microsoft's TV platform and PC games, posted a quarterly operating loss of US$348 million, compared with $180 million in the same period a year ago.'" An anonymous reader
points to similar coverage at news.com, pointing out that the company also reports "profits for Office, and one small note about an undisclosed presumably Japanese company that Microsoft if propping up. So, the big question on my mind is, who is Microsoft secretly holding above water, and why? The fact that they are presumably Japanese, seems to point towards an XBox partner. Could this explain the sudden flood of Sega exclusive games?" Another anonymous reader writes "Microsoft will be showing a smaller sized Xbox at E3 this May. In addition to the smaller size of the hardware, the Xbox Lite will also be integrated with Media2Go allowing Xbox users to download digital content such as music and movies. Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?"
They might have had a bigger market in Japan if it did!
On the one hand, Microsoft are losing money, yay! But on the other hand, if they're losing money they must be selling more and more units, boo!
Help, tell me what to think!!!
I wonder just exactly what the content and delivery methods for media to the xbox will be? Surely it will contain the DRM tools that Microsoft is so proud of. Will you just be able to download pre-approved things from xbox live connection, or will you be able to share on a home network?
Make the mod chips legal ..the linux users will buy the boxes by the hordes! :)
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Nice Engrish
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?
:)
It means that MS profits for next quarter will be higher from all the people flooding the market buying old XBoxes.
Obvious. The current mod chips are doomed, of course.
If Microsoft goes through the trouble of reconfiguring the case, then rejiggering the motherboard is trivial. Wouldn't be surprised if they put a bullet-proof kryptonite cover over the chips or soemthing.
The same thing it meant the last time a change was made to the xbox.
Time to make new mod chips.
Now what will I use to crack open coconuts?
It would have been much cheaper for Microsoft to bundle some of their own games, like Halo, with the Xbox. Instead they chose to bundle two games which Sega made exclusive to Xbox, and which didn't sell very well in their own right: Sega GT and Jet Set Radio Future.
My guess is that Microsoft did this to appease Sega and boost sales of their titles, in order to keep Sega making Xbox exclusives.
maybe i'm missing the point, maybe i'm old. but why are features like streaming video becoming more and more popular with consoles these days? am i the only person who use his game consoles for, well, games, and a pc for more 'useful' features?
Increase the size of your XBOX in 10 days with our Herbal XBOX Viagra!
Trolling is a art,
The only logical answer is Sega. There is no other developer out there that is giving the Xbox any kind of serious support in JPN. Xbox is only getting games from them that are on all three systems or nothing much at all. MS needs to figure something out with the JPN market if they hope to really fight in the Consoling gaming market. I don't see them getting any major head way though (but that doesn't upset me at all) due to these already tight partnerships: Nintendo has Capcom, Namco, Square, Sega (amusment vision) Sony has Square/Enix I know I am not listing all the JPN developers..but those are the big buys (for the most part)
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
...where does it say in the article that Xbox losses doubled?
In Japan, XBox IS a room and the controllers are garages.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
MS bought Rare in late Sept. for $375 million. I wonder how much of the $348 million reported as losses can be attributed to that acquisition.
Like them or not, MS is in the console business for the long haul whether they turn a profit within the next 3 years or not.
They've worked so hard, to play with the big boys. Eventually microsoft is going to have to realize, that people don't want to buy hype. They want to buy a GOOD VIDEO GAME SYSTEM
Don't make smaller hardware, make better games. You can only play so much Halo, before you get bored.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
You do realize that MS sells each one of these systems at a loss, so by following your approach, they will sell even more boxes at a loss, but none of these new customers will buy *any* games, meaning they'll end up with an even greater net loss?
They must be crazy not to do it!
MS has a history of going long-term with high-profile products, and it's paid off for them. This venture was no different, and losses were expected. Maybe if this story was posted say, 3-4 years down the road, it'd be newsworthy, since that's when MS is expected to BREAK-EVEN with the Xbox.
This sounds like editor & zealot bait - fanning the flames of hate. Woo-hoo, MS is losing money?
Woo-diddley-hoo, they knew it before we did. Get a grip.
i'm amazed that i survived - an airbag saved my life.
Just wait for spam e-mails advertising "Xbox Enlargement Pills". It'll be here soon, seriously.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Bill Gates shrugs it off as he burns hundred dollar bills while laughing in front of soup lines in downtown Seattle.
Current XBox hard drives are full size 3 1/2" IDE hard drives. The DVD Drive is a full 5 1/4" bay drive too. Both can be upgraded. Are they going to be replaced with more expensive notebook hard and dvd drives? If so, won't it drive costs up? Will the hard drives increase in capacity from the current 8, 10 or 20 GBs to make room for the music and movies?
So if MS keeps posting losses on the xbox like this, the real question is, which will happen first?
-Microsoft runs out of funds and has to close its doors.
-Our sun dies
Coming from a big PS/2 background and advocate, I was converted to the Xbox from my brother. For the same price of a PS/2, I got Dolby 5.1 in all games, network adapter, built-in hard drive, etc. The Xbox is very cool, and from what I've read, the #2 console. So despite the current losses, I think there is a lot Sony has to live up to in its next gen console to even catch up to what the Xbox now offers. And #2 ain't bad for a 15 month console life span!
I think Microsoft has to learn that they can't just make incremental additions to their hardware, or current customers will feel cheated. Although I don't personally own an X-Box, I know someone who does, and if Microsoft doesn't offer this Media2Go service to current X Box users, I know he'll be angry (What they're describing is actually pretty much what he wants, he has broadband, and wants to be able to get things like music and movies, but still pay for them, etc)
You do realize that MS sells each one of these systems at a loss
Contrary to popular belief, the console makers do not sell the consoles for less than their marginal cost of production and distribution. The "loss" lies mainly in the expenses of product development and promotion.
Will I retire or break 10K?
OK, M$ was NEVER going to profit from xbox sales without getting the cost of the box itself down to either lower their loss on each box, or maybe show a profit (don't know exactly which point they're at right now). What's curious is that even though their using "commodity" parts, it has taken them this long to get the thing shrunk. You would think that with all the resources of the various portable manufacturers, they'd be able to tap into a lot of talent when it comes to making smaller/more compact packages. Heck, it's not like the things bleeding edge hardware wise, cooling should not be an issue, and performance isn't (as far as needing to increase it), so why has it taken SOOOOOO long to come up with a smaller cheaper (for M$) xbox? This is a critical time for xbox, it has to wait the entire year before the next holiday rush. In the meantime Sony will be starting to get the PS3 marketing machine into gear, so this smaller xbox is going to have to pull it's own thru this tough period. If it makes it to xmas, M$ is either going to have to rev the hardware again (smaller and faster/better) or pray that next xmas's sales are spectacular, or xbox won't live too much beyond '04.
Can be found here
..can't be as cool as this. Anyone know anything about this render? Looks great too me, all wireless controlers, a port in the front for GBA games, USB... Not bad at all...
Help, tell me what to think!!!
It's Monday, so we like video games, so this is bad news. But it's February, so this is good news. But the day of the week is odd, so we're supposed to only bash Sony and Blizzard. But the day matches the 2-digit year, so we only especially make fun of Macintosh users. But it was posted AFTER lunch, so this is good news.
Got it?
Seems like it's more work to use the shift key anyways.
I bet you when the Xbox2025 comes out and is the last console on the market, MicrosoftAolTimeWarnerDisney will jack the price up to $2500. Which should just about offset the AOL losses...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Except that Rare is not Japanese...
Rare Ltd, a British game developer, was once half-owned by a Japanese company named Nintendo Co Ltd. Thus, even though it's not an acquisition of a Japanese company, it's still an acquisition from a Japanese company.
I've always wondered what Microsoft's acquisition of half of Rare will mean for Rare games on handheld systems. Will Microsoft publish Rare games on Game Boy platforms, following Microsoft's previous release of "Windows Entertainment Pack: The Puzzle Collection" on Game Boy Color? Or will Microsoft bring out its own handheld game system based on the Pocket PC platform, called the "Xboy"?
Will I retire or break 10K?
just like Iraq is using PS2 for their SCUDS
...but no PS2 has ever been or will ever be used for missiles. There was an export restriction put on the hardware (as with all computers of that class/speed, AFAIK) because of it's ability to crunch numbers, but any rumors of military applications are nothing more than sensationalism at it's finest.
Okay, I'll take what you say at face value about your position at Nintendo, and etc...
Everyone seems to be assuming that those losses can only be attributed to selling a ton of xboxes (at a loss.)
0 0. html
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2129749,
says differently.
Osha now expects Xbox-related revenue for Nvidia's fourth quarter, which ended 26 January, to total $40m on 800,000 units, down from previous estimates of $85m on 1.7 million units.
According to that, they shipped less than *half* of the number of xboxes they expected to ship in the 4th quarter.
isn't this supposed to be a joke right? why is it modded up as informative?
you gotta be kidding me...
agreed to share technology so they can combine chips and therefore minimise the insides as well as costs?
From what I recall one of the issues the XBox had was it was big and costly because the different companies refused to share info on their components. Whereas the PS2 was cheaper and smaller because they could combine manufacturing processes and reduce costs.
For the same price of a PS/2
The DVD-Video adapter for Xbox costs $30, but I guess the included broadband adapter offsets that. Still, the Xbox leaves dial-up users who live in areas where consumer-priced broadband Internet access is not available in the dark.
Will I retire or break 10K?
> Practically, the smaller profile allows GC to be used as a very compact embedded
> computer/processor unit in non-game applications.
Neat! We at Microsoft, on the other hand, have forty billion in the bank and a friendly government. So good luck with your Mario Party: Vice City and Scud Controllers. We'll make the money so you don't have to.
They may be losing money, but they have done want they wanted: become the number 2 console maker. Are they ever going to catch Sony? Probably not--but I'd bet for now they're happy beating Nintendo.
And for those of you who insist Nintendo is number 2 (it is in Japan certainly, but not overall) there have been lots of stories in the past few weeks about Nintendo sales. Here's one about Nintendo and EA. Basically, EA sees growth for the PS2 and XBOX, but not for Gamecube. Also from the article: "Shares in Nintendo have been battered by growing concerns about slack GameCube business worldwide."
And no, I'm not a PS2 or XBOX fanboy, so stop thinking I am. And no, I don't have a Gamecube, although if I could afford one I would for Metroid & Zelda alone.
-- Hobbits suck!
I thought you worked at Sega?
How's your Smell-o-vision project going?
Your educational background is pretty impressive too.
What about Super Marx Brothers?
(Thanks Klaruz.)
So how do you fit custom sound tracks onto those 8MB cards? Oh wait a second. ;)
Seriously though, a hard drive is a "Good Thing" and if the PS2 had made it standard, the games would take advantage of the increased flexibility. You can make the argument that there are few decent games for the XBox, but you can't argue that the hardware isn't the best among the current consels.
Xbox is the #3 system.
Sony Playstation: 50 million units
Nintendo GameCube: 16 million (or 10-12 million depending on who you believe)
Microsoft Xbox: 8-9 million
Microsoft is not doing so well. Microsoft says sales of Xbox are on track. Yet what did Microsoft project they would sell? 9 million to 11 million. How many did they sell? 8 million, and they hope to sell 1 million more by June 30. Therefore Microsoft might possibly meet the low end of their projections.
Sources...
CNet: PlayStation 2 shipments top 50 million
CNet: Microsoft says Xbox sales on track ("We expect to finish our fiscal year with just over 9 million units sold worldwide," Koch said.)
And finally, for the Microsoft shills that think Xbox will take the world by storm...
Suppliers dim Xbox sales picture
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
OK - so the new X-Box will have more/better security, perhaps with the key in SEVERAL tamper resistant chips, so no one grad student could possibly afford to crack them.
Think the funding for this will not be found? No, because Bill Gates has pissed off a lot of very rich people.
Larry Ellison of Oracle, for one, HATES him and Larry Ellison is a billionaire. There's many more.
Think the new X-Box will go uncracked? No way. Unless chips are coated with Unbelieveium, the toughest material in comics, a quiet team of well funded electrical engineers with electron microscopes etc WILL open the new x-box and print it's guts all over the internet.
Bill's Karma will catch up with him.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
Slashdot LOVES articles that cast the Xbox in a poor light.
Here's my take:
Let's just say they 'cut bait' and stop production on the Xbox. What happens?
My 8-10 games continue to function.
The 6-8 games I'd like but don't yet own get CHEAP. (we have an Atari 2600 and 80 odd carts that we bought for pennies on the dollar in garage sales)
My Xbox still makes a killer DVD player.
I dunno 'bout you, but I feel I got my money's worth. On a dollar per hour basis, it's been a pretty good purchase.
And yet, I doubt it's future is in jeopardy less than 4 months after announceing Xbox Live.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Insert foot in mouth, jackass.
With the latest version of Xbox Media Player 2.2 supporting Shoutcast and network shares with PC servers like Relax 0.71, what more will Media2Go offer?
Heck, on the latest CVS build of XBMP, you'll even be able to play Mode2 SVCDs from your bootleg CD-Rs!!
Viva la modchipping!
Some people living in the USA actually thinks all countries use some system to shorten the names to three capitalized letters.
"Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?"
Not much, they'll just come out with new chips that will work with the new systems, much like they do with sony continually coming out with new ps2 models.
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
Sega makes games for every company. PS2, GCN and XB all get games from Sega. If fact, Nintendo has the most Sega brand games. Withe the exception of their 2k sports games, their are more Sega games for Xbox than PS2.
None of their games are exclusive to any system (except maybe JSR and Sega GT 2002). At some point in time people equated "only out on console #1" to "exclusive to console #1". Super Monkey Ball could come out on PS2, but Sega doesn't want to make the game for that system. They like to put out different games for different systems. Sometimes they'll put one game out for GCN and XB, but not PS2 (See Phantasy Star Online). They do as they please. They are not contractually obliged to make SMB games only for Nintendo. JSR and GT 2002 maybe contractually exclusive to XB because they are pack-ins, but none of their other games are exclusive.
Message to Microsoft bashers everywhere: strike back at the evil empire! Every XBox you buy costs MS $199. Run Linux on it, use it as a footstool, but don't buy any games for it!
"Smart is sexy." -- D. Scully ("War of the Coprophages")
Shut up Samir- nobody wants to hear it.
Read jack phelps dot net
In AD 2101
....
Krieg war am Anfang.
Hauptmann: Was passieren?
Mechaniker: Irgendjemand aufrüsten uns die Bombe.
Betrieber: Wir kriegen Signal.
Hauptmann: Was!
Betrieber: Hauptschirm machen ein.
Hauptmann: Du bist's!!
Katzen: Wie geht es Ihnen meine Herren!!
Katzen: Alle Ihren Basis sind gehören zu uns.
Katzen: Ihr seid auf dem Weg nach Zerstörung.
Hauptmann: Was Sie sagen!!
Katzen: Sie haben keine Chance zu überleben machen Sie Ihre Zeit.
Katzen: HA HA HA HA
Hauptmann: Nehmen Sie auf jeden 'Zig' !!
Hauptmann: Sie wissen was Sie am machen.
Hauptmann: Bewegen Sie 'Zig'.
Hauptmann: Für grosse Gerechtigkeit.
Japan doesn't have Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles nor do they have the anti-ship version.
The Kongo class DDG has a VLS that is compatable with T-LAM but they do not have Tomahawks at this time.
"The Aegis foreign military sales (FMS) efforts began in 1984, resulting in the first Japanese FMS case in 1988. Three additional FMS ships were then authorized in 1990, 1991, and 1993. The USN furnished the Aegis AAW system and selected combat system elements, but the ship and the other remaining systems were built in Japan. Not all portions of the US Aegis system are installed on the Japanese ship. The Tomahawk system is not exported, and there is no equivalent Japanese-supplied function. Several other functions are also deleted in the Japanese ship."
How is MS expected to break-even if its quarterly operating loss doubled compared with the same period a year ago? f(t) can't get positive if f(t)<0 and f'(t)<0, that's why this is newsworthy.
I bought my fiancee's uncle and his family an XBox and a few games for xmas.
they love the thing... so they say.
I have yet to play one, but I have carried one around.
I on the other hand bought a used ps2 and play it pretty regularly - I suck at pretty much all the "normal" games and as a result play a lot of Tiger Woods golf which I'm good at (and I suspect everyone is if I am).
I'm not really sure I care which I use - the main reason I got the ps2 was so I could later get the game The Getaway as well as the GTA3 series - but now that reviews have panned the former and the latter are too hard/boring for me, I suppose it really doesn't matter (they are boring in the sense that I'm so bad at them that I lose interest quickly).
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Given their dearth of programmers, and the move to migrate IT type services to India, why don't we hear of any game programming shops there?
Still, MS generates $1 Billion in pure profit every month. They could absorb a money-losing Xbox division for 50 years if they wanted to.
Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?
Nothing to me. I don't own an Ecks-Box, and don't plan on it, since I already have two computers. Why would I want a stripped down PC I can't do anything to? Don't need Ecks-Box Live either; I've been playing games on the net for years already.
I gots me a ps2 & gamecube for consoling (no pun intended). And I only got the ps2 after they dropped the price way low, and only then cos it could also play DVDs. It gets more use as a DVD player (well, except for now, since they released Marvel vs Capcom 2...my thumb hurtz!!!).
I played Halo once. That's all it took to say, nope, not for me.
Spread the RC luvin'
The version 1.1 XBOX that started shipping in September of 2002 was hacked in about 1-2 weeks. This means that unless MSFT has really upped the ante with security, it will be more of a fun challenge to the MOD community, rather than a deterrent.
It's been 6 months since they've changed anything significant on the XBOX, so I'm sure the MOD community is waiting for a new challenge.
Or, better yet, buy $200 worth of food. Mmmm... pizza...
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Hmm. If indeed you are in Japan, what are you doing reading slashdot at 5:46 in the morning (or is it 4:46 am?).
And why the hell would defence teams want video game technology when they can get better imaging technology from contractors? And how would Iraq import PS2's?
I smell a troll...
Iraq isn't using a PlayStation, they're using an old IBM PS/2.
Iraqi technology at it's finest.
Is MS going to put in all those new features they want in the MS Home Media Network, meaning PVR anyone, media player over home network or XBox as a hub/router. Sony shrunk the PS1 and what did that really do. The XBox is big but making the same thing in a smaller package really is anything.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
All the other systems have Dolby 5.1 capability, it just depends on if the games support it.
I think my gamecube is a great system, but it doesn't support true 5.1 as there's no digital out on the console itself. The best you're going to do is Dolby Pro Logic II; it sounds impressive on a good sound system but it isn't 5.1. One also has to keep in mind that, with Pro Logic II being a newer encoding, not as many audio receivers can handle it.
I'll admit I'm a real audio novice, so feel free to correct me if I screwed up my information at all.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
Sega is a public traded company and as such they can not have a secret deal with Microsoft. At least in theory,... Enron, Cough Cough
Help fight continental drift.
Is that it gave us the Nvidia nForce and now, more importantly, nForce2 chipsets for AMD cpus. It's awesome.
Best bet is that they're attempting to outbleed their competetors. Once they have a lock on the market, they'll be able to raise the price -- like they have with the office suite market.
That having been said, I have no problems with buying an X-Box and modding it so that I can run something *useful* on it...
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
I guess somebody finally showed them a picure like this.
Hell they have sold 8 million units when essentially in competition with a system that had a year+ head start. Not to Mention Xbox figures to have a longer life than PSII and is in a great position to provide the higher value second tier system when PS3 hits the shelves and PSII game development falls off. Rough guess is at that point X-Box will be selling for 150 or less with a number of PC game ports hitting hard and heavy with alot of first efforts by primarily PC developers at the second teir game prices.
I think PSII is going to have a rough second tier life... I think they really goofed not having more memory or making it upgradable and the lack of an intialy integrated hard drive. Hard drive space is likely going to be very very necesarry in the console market before long and Xbox will be sitting pretty as a value system while it will cost to upgrade PSII and its system memory is fixed with less than Xbox.
Step two after PSIII hits the market they again hit the bleeding edge market late but this time with a system designed with all of their lessons learned ( IE better controller, smaller footprint ). They hope to break even but don't care if they take an ultimate loss again and take direct aim at whatever sony offers after the 3erd generation play station. The goal the next time around is to establish the system is worthy. Not to mention folks Xbox is not a garounteed loss yet, it may well break even or proove profitable in the long run.
Frankly I think MS could deal without penetrating the Japanese market so long as they can garner game design support for US titles or generate a stronger console content generation industry over here. My guess is they are after making the US market able to stand on its own feet in competition. at that point its anybodies game... however penetrating Japans very protective domestic market in an area with so much domestic pride is to me is a very very very difficult.
I am no Xbox fanboy.... my console system is a PSII and I love it... but it has its limitations and by all accounts it is a far more difficult system to develop for. X-box by contrast represents a set PC type of environment with similar development needs where you don't have to account for widely varying consumer hardware choices. This means given time and users the ease of porting PC titles will lead to more content from US game designers that have largely kept to the PC to date.
It will be interseting to see what Sony does to pre-emt these strengths.... a late market PSII with budget price ( no more than Xbox), upgraded memory, and with the hard drive/ network card included might deliver a real coup de grace to Xbox sales of any sort and put M$ at a severe disadvantage with Xbox V2 if they don't launch with PS3 in the battle for the next genration whether its worthy or not.
I hate M$ and little annoying things in their Xbox release like extra $$ on top of a too expensive release price to unlock DVD playback and an utter crap controller design seem to doom their venture. However, M$ is in it for the long haul and regardless of the people who back it I would love to see a stronger US console development market develop.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.
M$ can afford to lose millions, just to gain market share. If you want to hit them where they live; Demand Windows and Office at a bargain price. Look at the profits on those 2 products. Revenue 300% and 150% respectively. 40 Billion in the bank and looking for markets to buy. Shareholders should demand dividends!
The enormous racks of PS2 games pretty much make it certain that PS2 will be the leader in this generation forever.
Next generation will likely continue Sony's dominance, as they're already making the PS2 networkable, thus removing one of Xbox's innate advantages.
And it'll probably have enough extra power that you could use PS3 as a PVR, but that would imply that they include a tuner section, which isn't as likely as you'd think. Maybe as a USB2.0 peripheral...
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Embedded/pmp/defa ult.asp
Agreed.
Bill and his wife have donated tons of money to shelters/cancer treatment centers/fine arts, etc.
Agreed again.
You may hate his company, but he's donated a helluva lot of his loot.
*Screeeeeeech* *Bang*
What? Hold on. A helluva lot from my perspective, yes. A helluva lot from HIS perspective? Hardly. Look, I am not going to bash them for donating money to good causes, but let's be realistic - I have donated more, *percentage-wise*, than Bill Gates ever will. When you think about it, several million dollars is NOTHING to him. (oh, and his wife). I am happy that he has used some of his money for charity, but in all honesty he hasn't been very generous with it. And he did set up the foundation in his and his wife's name. Sure, he had the right to, but don't make him out to be a saint. He could have avoided the recognition if he wanted to, but I am sure he has a massive ego to feed.
Bill Gates is a successful businessman, pure and simple. He isn't a geek, he isn't a humanitarian. Just as people shouldn't make him out to be some kind of devil, he shouldn't be made into the opposite either.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
The link to the smaller xbox has been blocked. Some smart admins decided to block referer=slashdot.org. Solution: copy and paste the url into a browser.
http://www.funxbox.com/news.php?newsid=619
Its not what it is, its something else.
Note, before anyone flames me for that, I didn't buy an XBox nor would I simply for the principle of it. I don't like feeding MS's coffers. If anyone other than MS had made the XBox, I probably would have considered buying one. I just think it's fair to point out that it's a decent gaming system.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
It was out 3 days after the Xbox in the US, but 5-6 months *earlier* than the Xbox in Japan. That's where it got its lead from.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Let's see, IIRC, Microsoft has $40,000,000,000 in cash. If we call the "average" of the last 2 quarters a loss of about $200,000,000, that means Microsoft only has 50 years to turn this product around, or they're history.
They're probably quivering at my math right now.
adeu,
Mateu
"And we're happy here, but we live in fear, we've seen a lot of temples crumble..." - Concrete Blonde
Like in Nintendo patent 6,468,160
People ask me, But how do you make a profit? And my answer is the
same every time:
Volume.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Microsoft should stay out of the hardware business.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
If Sony makes the PS3 backwards compatable with the PS2 like the PS2 was to the PS1, M$ will end up with technically superior compeditor with a crud load of games from the beginning. On top of this M$ has to deal with the reputation for instability and security issues which it has aquired on the desktop.
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
Just not true:
"November marked the seventh consecutive month in which Xbox console sell-through outpaced that of Nintendo GameCube." GameZone.com
This was also confirmed by the author of "Opening the Xbox" Amazon who was interviewed on TechTV not too long ago who stated that total Xbox sales were significantly higher than the GC. BTW, the PS2 had an 18 month lead on Xbox and GC. A huge amount of time to build a game and player base.
Try supporting your "facts" next time.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
Since MS loses on each unit sold, wouldn't this imply an increase (possibly double) in sales?
The Gates Foundation has awarded over $5 BILLION in grants and has an endowment of $24 BILLION. Is that a lot of money to me and you? Hell yeah! Is that a lot of money to him? Damn right. It's not all his money personally, but still, a huge portion of it is.
To call him not generous or a humanitarian is either ignorant or mean spirited.
It's always sad to see a monopoly fail when it muscles it's way into a new market :)
I must say though SEGA has made some amazing games for the XBOX-- not enough to warrant a purchase from me.. I have a gamecube and a ps2(one that has a defective discdrive...disc read error blah)... The Gamecube has been insanely fun- more fun than most of my PS2 games... Metroid was tons of fun, and even though the games are pretty stylized and bright they are still great fun.
I don't think Microsoft will be able to stay afloat in the games industry personally- They are just getting started from their perspective- while companies like Sony and Nintendo are already working on releasing new consoles by 2005...
How long will it take for Microsoft to try and move into the handheld market?... Nintendo practically subsidizes their console business with handhelds until they can produce them cheap enough to stand on their own.
3 consoles-- and the market is already saturated...personally I hope microsoft fails- they produced an inferior product in many respects-- I'm am glad that the gaming public has enough taste to avoid the heap of plastic the XBOX is.
Which means they were hoping software sales could make them float it. Unfortunately, there aren't enough machines on the market to bother to make exclusive titles for. That's why you see games like Splinter Cell go "exclusive" for two months before it's on something else.
In Soviet Russia, nobody makes a profit!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Just think, think think ...
...
;-)
... only sony seam to be alive !
MS knows they will soon have to make a choice : either inject tons of bucks on the project and reduce their global profit,
or just cut the money flow and discontinue the xbox !
All is just a mather of time, MS has already failed on the game market (remember MSX ?) and doing the same mistake, will lead to the same end
By the way, Nintendo is in pretty bad position either
With sega, almost dead
-4R34'.
How come Sony and Nintendo didn't put a 10/100 ethernet controller onboard?
How come Sony and Nintendo don't support real Hi-Def? (They each do 480p, but the Xbox does 480p, 720p, and 1080i.)
How come Sony and Nintendo don't have a built-in hard drive?
Bigots aside, there's a lot to like about the Xbox.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Since they are losing money on the Xbox already, doesn't the fact that they lost more money last quarter mean that they are selling more Xbox consoles? Just a thought. -Breakfast well, for tonight we shall dine together in Hell.-
Reading www.aintitcoolgames.com this morning I was struck by one of the reviewers writing: "this is a great game, rent it over the weekend."
_ __ _
It's occured to me that blockbuster could kill the console market. Ok not kill but certainly effect the bottom line.
If you only make money from selling games and most games only last less then 20 hours, you can easily rent a game for a week and finish it off, even if it takes longer then 20 hours you can save the data on the (hard drive/memory card) and just rent it again.
It was one thing when you needed friends to borrow games from, but I don't even need friends anymore, just my handy blockbuster card.
_______________________________________________
Fight Entropy!!! Fight Entropy!!! Figth Etnropy! !
iFgth Etnrop!y ! giFth tErno!py ! giFt htrEno!p y! --- Well maybe
not...
hwo to sell an xbox or alot of them..
Tell Courtney Love that they are the new fashion and hip female sex toys..
She will stay up all night ot order all of them..then MS can sel more..:)
Don't Tread on OpenSource
The fact that they are presumably Japanese, seems to point towards an XBox partner.
Because all Japanese people do is play games?
are you surprised that MS has increased 'losses' (as defined to be favorable for tax purposes) in their media division (which saw the final scrapping of the PVR unit this quarter) - when they're getting ready to release a newly engineered and redesigned product?
m l
(for those of you not following along: redesign = R&D and all the supplies and manhours used for this task are counted as -losses- for tax purposes)
this is people trying to drum up some news from the game market. as the weekly world news (and cnn) show us: knee jerk reactions, no logic, and inflammatory headlines sell news.
like the news from a week ago about the poor supplier who wasn't getting any more orders from MS. was it because xbox was doing poorly? or because they got left behind when it was re-engineered, and they're sore - so they release a Press Release to exact a little PR revenge?
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-982911.ht
if i were only reactionary and gullible... news would be so much more interesting.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Of course! 180 doubled is 348! No wonder they're always double-posting stories--they must be using some smaller value of 2, so they can never tell when the number of stories with the same topic has actually reached 2.
That green slime had it coming.
I'm sorry, but this is more than $500 million MS has lost so far on Xbox, and that is big news no matter how you slice it. Does anyone honestly think MS got into this business in order to lose money? What would be the point? There are two possible reasons for MS to have gotten into the video game business, and only two:
1. To make profits. This is self explanatory.
2. To use the system to leverage their Windows business somehow, selling the system at a loss in order to eventually put some modified version of Media Center in your living room.
They're failing at #1, and as far a I know, #2 would be illegal - it's basically exactly what they were found guilty of in court already.
No company can continue to lose money at something forever. I'm sorry, but this is a publicly traded company and if I were holding MS shares there's not really anything MS could do at this point to convince me that getting into this business has been a good idea. Sony's profitable, Nintendo's profitable, MS is losing *large* amounts of money. What's wrong with this picture?
Almost lost in this story is that MS is now saying they're barely going to hit the low end of their sales forecasts. You think they expected to lose $384 million? They probably wouldn't have if they'd sold as many consoles as they'd hoped - this means less software sold, and fewer royalty payments. The fact is the Xbox is not doing well, however MS wants to spin it.
And regarding this Japanese company they're "propping up" - I would honestly doubt it's Sega, though it's possible. However, all of Sega's recently-released Xbox games were announced over a year ago (at the E3 prior to the Xbox's launch), and the only recent Xbox game I can recall being announced by Sega is Virtua Cop 3. That's honestly not a lot of support. More likely, the investment is in Tecmo - which has been devoting almost exclusive support to Xbox ever since its release, and which has two of the highest-profile titles ever released for the console - Dead or Alive 3 and Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball, not to mention the recently announced Dead or Alive: Code Cronus and the hinted-at Dead or Alive 4. All Xbox-exclusive. Sega, by contrast, hasn't released any million-sellers for Xbox, not even close, and hasn't announced much for the system lately.
At least it'll still make a good paper weight. =)
"Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?"
the new ones will have to be be less fattening.
Hemingway's blood does not flow in your veins.
People keep bringing up the $40 billion MS keeps in the bank thinking they can just throw it at blue sky projects at their leisure. Well MS just recently issued a dividend, and the pressure to keep doing that (and on a larger scale) is going to increase, especially if that tax cut gets passed. So it isn't just a free ride for the X-Box.
All I have to say is.... $200 worth of Bawls.
Only in slashdot are posts of solidarity modded at -1 Redundant, while posts of antagonism are modded as -1 Flamebait.
Aww shucks...
[Bows]
Heh.. I got modded as a troll or flamebait or something last time I posted something about him.
It should be modded up. It's hilarious!
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
...than to release a "new and improved" version of your product less than two years after the original is released.
Regardless of how well it's marketed. I've read about the Japanese consumer market: Foreign things tend to be shunned. In Japan, anything created outside the country is likely to fail. They buy "domestic" ("domestic" being relative, of course) and avoid anything non. The government even fosters this attitude... And can you blame them? The US is starting to try the same thing. "Buy America" and other such slogans. Our technology comes from Japan, and not the other way around. Sega, Nintendo, Playstation... Every console that has made it was *Japanese*. Coincidence? Hardly.
OMG, that was soooo funny, or should I say foooony. HA HA! My sides are splitting. This reminds me of the South Park episode when the Japanese are brainwashing the kids into those toys, Chimpokomon! HA HA!
"Me hava schmall penis, you have a vewy lawg penis. You shame me." HA HA!
"Nice Engrish" - HA HA! I've got to stop it, HA HA!
CROAK- I'm dead.
Microsoft planned on losing big on the first and second generation Xbox. They want to create a market dominince in this industry like they have everywhere else. They have a few billion to blow so they are doing this by selling a far superior system for a reasonable price. Have you looked at the hardware specs for this box? The hardware alone costs them twice what they are charging. It should be illegal. This is just another attempt to muscle their way into another market...
up up and away
I'm suprised the xBox lite isn't called iBox
Could anybody point me to where the News for Nerds. Stuff that matters is here?
You're talking about two different things, and you're both right.
Gamecube is ahead of X-Box worldwide.
X-Box is ahead of the GCN domestically.
When one wants to make the X-Box look good, they quote US sales. When one wants to make the GCN look good, they quote worldwide sales.
Mod the parent up. The "XBox is #3" crap is just not true. XBox is a good bit ahead of GameCube in terms of units sold through. It's sad considering the fantastic games out for GameCube, but the fact is the XBox has taken the very covetted spot of second place console (in a war where only #1 and #2 matter) and GameCube is starting to look a lot like the dreamcast :-(
paulb
just like Iraq is using PS2 for their SCUDS.
Nonsense. No PS2 is being used for SCUDS. PC Hardware is cheaper and much more powerful at that.
Basically what happened was that Sony released the PS2 in Japan and saw it being exported to Europe and the US in large quantities. Sony didn't like that because it wanted to control the release of the PS2 in other markets so it asked the Japanese government to stop it from happening. The Japanese government complied and said "would you also like your shoes cleaned, master?".
Mmmm.. Donuts
I recognized that some people think that since MS loses money on Xbox, and MS is losing much more money on XBOX now, that means MS XBOX sales are good (meaning more Xboxs are being sold at a loss). This is untrue.
& Ar t_ID=11492
Xbox is selling poorly.
"the company lowered its total Xbox sales forecast to 9 million to 11 million units by the end of June 2003. The company originally expected to ship that many units by the same point in 2002.", for comparison playstation2 has sold 50 million units.
http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.cfm?ID=17
Another bad sign is component manufactures like Focus (and likely Nvidia) are being told that they don't need to make more components for the Xbox (mentioned in above link).
Just because he's a savvy buisnessman as well as a philanthropist does not make him evil. Evil would be sheltering the majority of his funds offshore so that they benifit no one but himself (that is tax evasion). While he may have bankrupted the BC program, does it really matter? Because of his donation, the program almost certainly has more money now than it would have ever recieved otherwise.
Also, all of the large amounts of giving you ever hear about are also cases of conditional giving, the condition being that the giver recieve some sort of recognition for his or her giving, be it having their name mentioned in association with the gift, or having a building named after them. The only giving you can truely be uncritical of is Anonymous giving and in that case we wouldnt even be having this discussion.
Also, Bill Gates' gift of 100 million to fight AIDS in no way comes back to his pocket, so certainly you can't qualify all of his giving as evil, even by your twisted standards.
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
Here is an interesting article about Nvidia and their possible contributions to Xbox2/XboxNext(or whatever it's called).
NVidia cautious about Xbox 2
http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=2507
It basically says that Nvidia may not be to excited to be the supplier for the next Xbox's components because of poor Xbox sales and legal problems with MS.
You don't consider 1% of his net worth (>$500M) to be a lot of money? And much more is coming, it's just he can't sell MS stock at any faster rate.
The way that Sony made the PS2 backwards compatable with the PS1 was to put an entire PS1 inside the PS2. When the system starts up the disk is scanned and the PS2 circuitry determines if it is a PS1 or PS2 game. If it is a PS1 game it is handled by the PS1 hardware, if it is a PS2 game it is handled by the PS2 hardware. Therefore, if Sony uses the same mechanism to make the PS3 backwards compatable in the same method (no reason they shouldn't the PS2 isn't that expensive to make any more, and would cost less when put on a single chip) there would be no performance hit.
The other thing that has impressed me with the PS2 is that with fairly limited hardware (I think it is a 400Mhz Mips with 32 Megs of RAM) it can render a little less than half the polygons the Xbox can with much better (and more expensive) hardware (1Ghz processor (PIII?), 128 Megs of RAM, specially made NVidia graphics processor) which was released more than 2 years later (Xbox was behind Moore's law when compaired to PS2). If the above article is correct the PS3 would come out about three years after the XBox and from a comparison with the rendering power of the PS2 and Xboxen and Moore's Law should have better than 4 times the rendering power of the Xbox (and 10 times the rendering power of the PS2). That would be enough additional power to get game developers to develop exclusives for it. The measly x2 f the Xbox is not.
Shasput, I think I've started a flame war.
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
It would have been much cheaper for Microsoft to bundle some of their own games, like Halo, with the Xbox. Instead they chose to bundle two games which Sega made exclusive to Xbox, and which didn't sell very well in their own right: Sega GT and Jet Set Radio Future.
When you say cheaper, you are ignoring one cost to Microsoft - the lost sales of the popular games. The point of bundling is to give something that it is percieved to have some value, but at the same time not canabalize their own sales. Were Microsoft to give away something for free that most people would buy, they would lose the money on that. By giving away something less likely to be purchased, they keep those sales, while increasing sales of the Xbox because some people will buy anything if it comes with something free.
I have blog like everyone else
The money they loose on xbox they will make back from selling Windows XP to the dumb consumers, plus more money than they deserve.
Well, speaking of the Wall Street, they are emotional people. Today is this, tomorrow is that! Wow, the President said such and such economy is going to hell. Oh, mortgage rate is dropping, buy buy buy, sell, sell, sell. MS losing money in xbox is nothing new. Furthermore, we know that the more xbox unites are being sold, the more money MS loses. Right after Christmas, the 4th quarter of the last year, we can expect a big loss, since presumably more units were sold during the 4th quarter than previous quarters. I personally think that Wall Street is just reacting (emotionally) after Shuttle incident and viewing the MS's loss very negatively.
Modem technology is dead.
Then why is only dead technology available in many geographical areas? And why does dead technology have so many more subscribers than not-dead technology?
You cannot play modern games over a modem.
At first glance, that looked like a contradiction: "You cannot play modem games over a modem." But then I realized you had written "ModeRn".
Do chess, checkers, and hearts work over a modem? Yes. Does Warcraft 3 for the PC work on v.90? Yes; according to its system requirements, it even works on 28.8. Even the popular PC first-person shooters still work over 56K, though you get the most fair experience playing against other 56K users rather than against users lucky enough to have broadband move into their town.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It released at $300 and cost sony an estimated $450 per unit to manufacture.
Are you just assuming $450 is the case? As far as I know, most consoles are initially sold at a price that approximately breaks even with marginal cost.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If MS loses money on every XBox: Buy a dozen, and don't buy any games (obvious)
If MS doesn't makes small or no profitevery XBox: Every buy a dozen or more on a set day, say 15 Septmber 2003 (carefully chosen to be late Q3). In this event MS will ramp up production and advertising for Christmas as they become aware of the surge in sales and increased demand. Then oops they get stuck with a zillion XBox that nobody wants.
Add in all the money lost by people spending all their free time on code used by others for free and (their) profit and that's a much greater loss. If you think it's bad for MS to give this away, what can you say for yourself? You are operating in the RED by definition and always will.
Is it still heavy enough to hold down a small stack of papers?
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
Odd. Maybe I live in a demographic that doesn't reflect these statistics, or perhaps the statistics are wrong, but I've asked all of the retailers that I've been to which system sold more: the Gamecube, or the XBox and they've all said the same thing.. XBox.
Then they go on to say, "But of course, the PS2 is miles ahead for our sales than either of them", but that's a given.
Probably a bad time to enter into the gaming industry, dontcha think? Microsoft is mortal. But level heads knew that all along. No need for any more class action lawsuits.
So then it's got nothing to do with the fact that the US doesn't actually make consumer durables any more then?
... errr .... Japanese people don't buy American because they're inherently isolationist with regards their consumption habits?
Right, so Japanese people don't buy American
Get real. The government fosters this attitude? How? Special lasers coming from (Japanese made) TV sets?
Only in the US, buddy. Then again, the Super Nintendo flogged the pants off the Sega Master System everywhere except the US, too.
I realize that there is less aversion towards Xbox here than there is towards their PC software, since most people can respect the fact that it's a great console, but I saw some people voice concern about how "the Xbox isn't stopping at videogames, they plan on having Xbox 2 be a multimedia center that would give them control like in the PC industry, scary".
What do you think of the alternatives though? By that I mean Sony, who have openly stated they plan on doing the very things MS wants to do. Allow me to showcase their current product:
-Far weaker system that doesn't even include basic graphical features like anti-aliasing and proper textures
-It doesn't support any internal save slot, so you're forced to buy a memory card
-It had no hard drive, and the fact that the upcoming one is an add-on (historically, not a single add-on EVER was a success) means that the amount of developers who will make their games utilize its features is about the same as that of PC developers who port their games to Linux
-It has no network port, so for online play you're forced to buy it seperately
I can't help but feel that Sony is holding the gaming industry back, while Microsoft gives gamers more than they've ever received from any manufacturer. Whatever happened to supporting the best product?
I have fallen I cant get up !!!
Personally, I think both SegaGT and JSRF are great games that you can play for a long time -- so kids that got their xbox for christmas will be able to enjoy them for awhile.
(However, the music with GT is terrible.)
A lot of the well known classics for Ninendo were created by or heavily involved rare.... doesn't anyone else find it surprising they shifted to X-box.
I still remember that big Rare logo on starting up Donkey Kong Country on SNES, and a few other popular nintendo games.
Hmmm. It'll be interesting to see how Microsoft pulls this one off. Wonder if their logic is something like:
1. Sell XBox at a loss; lose $300+ million
2. ??
3. Profit!
...almost all of Microsoft's profits over the last 20 years have been the result of accounting irregularities.
Wall Street made that money appear. They can take it away quite quickly.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Judging by how popular Microsoft's XBox is with Slashdot people, I'd say Slashdot should be crying that the XBox is doing so poorly. However, judging by the Slashdot's antipathy toward's Microsoft, you'd think Slashdot should be cheering.
Huh? The Japanese *adore* foreign-made products. It's also that they're quite a bit pickier about the (perceived) quality. Look at the bunch of dokushin-kizoku driving BMW's, or all those girls with Louis-Vuitton bags. Both are indicative of perceived quality, and both are "foreign" goods to them. Let's see, culturally, it's still "cool" to be American. That's still foreign. I have been in this country for a few months, and I have *yet* to hear the gov't say "buy Japanese".
The reason Xbox isn't doing well isn't the foreign vs domestic bit, but the fact that the genre popular in Japan (RPGs, puzzles, etc) aren't there on the Xbox.
Xbox is the #3 console because most of the games are shit.
Good Riddance.. as if Micro$oft isnt polluting enough of the world already.. their Xbox is just a PC in a diffrent box with a chip that prevents their games from working on a PC thats 3 times faster so.. GOOD RIDDANCE.: GOOD BYE AND PS3 HERE I COME!! I/O
Yes, if you go to my journal, this is prettymuch what you'll find. I was kind of impressed with how it turned out, though, so here we go.
Okay, so Xbox losses doubled. The question is, does anyone care? Most people today get Xbox for one of two things: Halo or Xbox Live. It's not like people are saying "Why look, honey, another fine Microsoft product. We'll go pay a whole bunch for a brand new one!" And Halo is not receiving the near-divine praise it once was. Now it seems to be a precedent (and I have no objection to that, Microsoft does a good job of publishing trend-setters) that most other games compare themselves to (Ex: Tribes Aerial Assault). So they think releasing "Xbox Lite" will solve this problem. Yes, that makes sense, spend even more money to pump into a system that is attracting a smaller and smaller audience.
This seems like another famous Microsoft Act of Desperation (MAD). So maybe they need to step back and realize that maybe console gaming isn't their thing. It was released originally at a prime time, but the market for the PlayStation 2 was enormous, cutting down tremendously on possible sales. After all, someone spends $300 on a new PS2, it's not very likely that they'll spend the same amount on an Xbox while they're at it. So they need to pull out of console gaming for a while, and stick to what they're good at: successful publishing of PC Games. This is where they have my deepest respect. Sure, they make it seem like they're the ones making it, but you'll notice somewhere, maybe on the CD, maybe on the case, that some other company, usually one most people haven't heard of (Ex: Fasa Studios - MechWarrior Series, Gas Powered Games - Dungeon Siege, Ensemble Studios - Age of... Series) actually produced it.
EA and MS comprise about 90 percent of my PC games, which is impressive considering my gaming site requires me to have the 'latest and greatest' of the bunch. So stick with something you're good at, Microsoft. PC's are your specialty, and stay the hell out of console gaming. Remember, the Xbox is down, and nobody cares.
TLoM: Nerds + DDR + Rednecks for the win!
I had the same vision, only it went on a bit longer - and it turned out that version of the XBox was actually popular!
"If MS legalizes the mod chips then the Linux folk would completely abandon interest. "
No, there are always people who like to modify things. I'm happy to just buy Sega games, Tecmo games, and the odd non-Sega/Tecmo game (Splinter Cell, for example) for use on my Xbox. Legally, I have the right to do whatever I want with my Xbox, including using it as a toilet. I can put any chips I want into it, even PowerPC chips!
People don't want to modify their Xboxes because they legally restrained from that action, they want to modify them because it's a fairly compact (compared to a full tower PC) unit with all the important hardware for DTS/DD and HDTV in one unit.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
One of the downloadable perks for PSO on GameCube is getting a copy of NiGHTS you can download to your linked GBA. Then you can at least be one step closer to NiGHTS.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
At a really low bitrate. I don't know about your audio setup, but I can hear artifacting on the vocals to Soundgarden's Superunknown CD over the sounds of the engine. Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball will crash after every round with custom tracks turned on. The "feature" of custom tracks is useless to me (and probably many others) for these quality and stability reasons.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I bought my Xbox for Jet Set Radio Future. That game was enough for me to buy it. I've spent 30 hours on it in total. I may never play it again, but I sure got my warth from it.
:)
And that's not the only game I've played for a number of hours on my Xbox. Most of the ones I play a lot are Sega games, so I always buy Sega releases. Whenever I do the math, I'm paying around 50 or 60 cents Canadian per hour of enjoyment. I think only the public library comes close to that
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Yeah, I had the same vision, but without the action button.
In essence, a true Jobs-ified gaming platform for the morally elite.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
"But c'mon, the systme has been out this long and the good games are only now starting to really trickle in, and the best ones are cross-platform."
:)).
Every single system only gets so many great titles per year of its life. If you look at your 15 solid-gold SNES cartridges from back in the day, you fondly remember playing them. Do you remember the really shitty games no one even tries to sell anymore? How about how long it was between Mario games, or how amazing it was to get Metroid 3 years after the SNES came out?
Launch titles are a mixed bag, with most of them being rushed, sucking, or under-using the power of the system. There are enough great Sega and Tecmo titles to justify owning an Xbox. On the GameCube, there are enough great Nintendo, Sega, and other titles available to justify buying it. Same for the PS2: how many RPGs do you want? I bought Suikoden 3, Legaia 2, Wild Arms 3, etc. These are great games that are reasons to own a system. If you look at your library, and you see only games you'd rather not play or sell.. then you should be picking more carefully.
My GC library is around 17 games, my PS2 is 7, my Xbox is 7. With every console/portable I have, I'm sitting around 175 games. I do have crappy games, but years of experience have taught me how to quickly spot something I'll enjoy. And if you're in doubt, rent it -- or ask the people at the store (assuming it's EB, not Wal-mart
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
In my opinion, the Xbox hardware is better console than the PS2. I prefer the Xbox controllers for FPS-type games, I don't need memory cards, I have networking right out of the box. Many games that are on both, I buy on Xbox to a) save to HD, and b) use the (arguably) nicer controllers.
However, this is not an incentive to buy an xbox. It's an incentive to buy the games FOR xbox if you own both. Of the xbox-exclusives that I've bought (Halo, Gunvalkyrie, SplinterCell), only one of them was a must-have (Halo), and that was just for me. I don't think it's a must-have like Metroid Prime, Zelda: Wind Waker, FFX, or MGS2.
While getting games to come out FOR xbox is important from a revenue point of view, it's also important to make sure that some high-profile titles come out ONLY for xbox, to drive up the incentive to own an Xbox, and thus drive sales of the cross-platform games as well.
MS hasn't done so well on the xbox-exclusives front, but in buying Rare, Bungie, and (possibly...) Vivendi gaming division, they will get there. All it takes is money and balls, of which they have ample amounts.
M$ losses hundreds of millions in other areas, and offsetting it with billion of $ earned from Windows and Office... Will continue creeping into other markets ... Destroying competitors by burning out their cash reserves ... Until everything is controlled by them ... And dictate the market for that area ... Nothing new here, this is typical M$.
Point 1.. yes, you can beat a game in 20 hours. Rental periods are one week. If you add up a full time job, commute, and 20 hours for a video games, you're looking at around 65 hours or more for most people. That leaves about 10 hours for other kinds of entertainment. Do you want to make that trade off?
I'd rather spend 20 or 30$ for a game now, even if it sits, and enjoy it at my own pace. If I do get 20 or more hours out of the game, I'm looking at a fraction of a dollar per hour. Way cheaper than movies (rental or theatre); way, way, way cheaper than music (an hour of which costs the same as 2 hour movies!).
And if you do choose good games, they don't tend to depreciate as much as bad games. Final Fantasy 3 for the SNES? Great game. I can still sell a copy (if I had one) on eBay for a fair price.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I can't believe that people haven't been talking about the rumor posted up at Penny Arcade (it's from two posts or so ago -- look for it). It involves the next holiday sales idea from Microsoft:
Selling tiny new XBox's (complete w/ built-in network adapter) for $99.
And the catch is you sign a two year contract for XBox Live. That's $9.95 a month for Microsoft, guaranteed, from each person with a new form factor XBox. Oh, I'm sure you could still get the new Form Factor and not pay the fee for two years, but you know they will charge around $150-$175 for it. And the $75 difference is huge a low middle class home where that is a lot to spend on your kids, and that's bound to be appealing.
This way, even if they lose on hardware in the short run, their subscription service will make it even out in the long haul. The $99 XBoxes will finally not make Microsoft lose money (due to hardware depreciation, ie, lower prices) and their subscription service will fuel new games and keep people playing their XBoxes.
I hate to devil's advicate, but that's a pretty damn good marketing strategy, if only taken for its orginality alone.
Robert Asprin reference for anyone who doesn't get it.
De de da de da de da da
De de da de de da!
Let's see. $100 loss on each console. We only need to sell 3 million more units to put ourselves out of business! yay!
I don't claim to be a business guru, but come on, you are failing to understand some of the BASICS (and we're getting real basic here!) of business. How such ignorance get's +5'd is beyond me, even on /. (OK, I'm naive!). I'm being a bit redundant as others have posted to this affect, but I have two statements: A) Businesses take a loss (generally for many years) when investing in new ventures and B) if you want more details go to school (bus101 at your local community college should be fine, but many highschool business courses should suffice), go to the library, or use the Internet for something other than admitting your ignorance on /.
Sorry for getting a bit personal, but when you make loud accusations, expect to get called on your crap.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
First, what right do you have to determine how MUCH a person should donate and to what causes? How arrogant and judgemental!
Second, Bill has donated MORE (and we are not talking dollars, we are talking RELATIVE net worth) than any the Rockefellors, Carnegie, or any other rich person in history. All you had to do was read one of many articles published over the past few years regarding his philantropy.
So no, you probably have not donated more precentage wise, especially when considering that BillG can not donate investments - he donates LIQUID, and he has a lot less liquid then his net-worth. A lot of his investments return dividends directly into their foundation.
Get off your high horse.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
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WARNING:Slashdot karma not redeemable in the afterlife.
Exactly! Just like how the vast sales of the Super Nintendo helped the Nintendo 64 stave off the Playstation!
Uhh, oops... crap. Guess that argument fails.
Actually the PS2 being able to play old PS1 games was a smart marketing move and contributed greatly to it's success. I expect you'll see this trend continue. PS3 will be backwards compatible as will XBox2.
Game sales for X-Box related games (such as Splinter Cell) are extremely high, and Microsoft gets a cut of those sales, in licensing fees.
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
Just wanted to give you the right numbers for the two systems, since the only number you got right was PS2s 32MB of RAM.
PS2 has a 300MHz MIPS with 32MB of RAM yes. I don't think you can really compare that to the Xbox's CPU directly though, since we're looking at different architectures and design purposes.
As for the Xbox, it has 64MB of unified memory, and a 733MHz CPU which is like a P3 but without as much cache, making it more celeron-like.
is gonna rule them all...
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FunPic
Pimps Quest
Cutiequake
If they make the Xbox smaller, how will the mod chips fit inside!?
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Allow me to suggest the IBM global uplink network modem.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You don't have to "lug over the Xbox" because you can get memory cards that are even bigger than the PS2 ones. Goes to show how misinformed you are in your daily Slashdot trolling. Go back to playing your buggy FPS games that require a new $400 upgrade every 6 months.
Most of the teams that made the really good games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark have defected. The Devs of Timesplitters have a suprisingly large % of ex-Rare Devs. The makers of Unity, ex-Rare as well. Starfox adventures, while fun, was made by a company that resembles the old Rare only in name. Starfox also took 4 years to make, Rare likes to take their time and polish their games, will that quality survive now that are owned by MS? Be interesting to see. Also, most of the titles you named are owned by Nintendo only and are made by whichever developers Nintendo hand them onto, for example, Donkey Kong.
Since I bought my GameCube I have only been playing it, my XBox and PS2 largely are gathering dust, curse you Nintendo!
Also the game company Zoonami have a lot of ex-Rare employees.
Also, Bill Gates' gift of 100 million to fight AIDS in no way comes back to his pocket, so certainly you can't qualify all of his giving as evil, even by your twisted standards.
I tend to agree with you, but you have to realize that in a sick way, its just simply for PR reasons. Larger public support basis. In other words, more sales, and the money does come back to him. This is also for when he's taken to court for his growing monopoly, that people will say: Let him, he's giving it all to fight AIDS.
According to your specs; Commodore was on the right track, over 12 years ago, with their CDTV!
........ ....
Designed to look somewhat similar to a VCR- IR Controller- Ugradeable with Micro IR Keyboard and Hard Drive
It was initally positioned AWAY from computers in retail stores, but failed because:-
It was poorly marketed.
It was priced too high.
There was a lack of *Quality* Software, and
The general public didn't know WHAT it was!
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
It's also a brain damaged design - although I like PC games (imagine Quake without a mouse) I can't help but think that putting a HDD in one of these devices is asking for trouble. There will never be a PS2 virus, but it's only a matter of time before J. Random Hacker wakes up to the presence of XBoxes and proceeds to spread havoc. That's a lot of *identical* DDoS clients out there on broadband.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I think that the industry is wrong about this, because they are ignoring one key point (or maybe several). The key point is this: every year, the average computer IQ of the general population goes up. Granted, the curve is pretty flat, but word processing and then the ma-&-pa internet have made it so that people have learned a few skills, even some involving the keyboard. The dumb stereorack PC/console will almost inevitably seem clunky to people who have, for the most part, already done more complicated stuff elsewhere. So this marketing ploy is actually going to go against the general demographic trend, as people become more and more competent and more and more demanding.
If this kind of thing has any success, I think it will be in the home entertainment domain, for people who already have a computer, but want a machine that integrates into the stereo system and the TV, sort of a mega-Tivo.
Why make something without a keyboard when everyone knows that e-mail is the killer ap of the internet!
Congratulations! Now we are the Evil Empire
When they filed their year end statement, I distinctly got the impression that that XBox did well - at least they were bragging that the sales were better than expected. Now the say that it's loosing money. Is that misleading investors, or what? XBox is important to MS becuase the Office and OS buisnesses are mature and won't be able to sustain the company forever. This shows that the company is failing to grow into other segments.
US$348 million is 1/120th of their reported $40billion cashpile.
That's only 30 years at the current rate before their money runs out. Roll on 2033.
(Notwithstanding any other profits, losses, acts of God, parliament)
Interesting thought: Do you think Microsoft understand why people dislike their marketing tactics? Or do you think they think "Oh, they're just jealous"/"They just don't understand how it all works"?
Get your own free personal location tracker
W00t! Micro$h*t blows!
. ..
uh oh...
can't...stop...playing...halo...
must...resist
must...
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Do these numbers include returned, defective units?
At the very least, the PS2 number ("shipments") sounds like not.
May we never see th
Yes. I bought a Dreamcast a year after release when it looked like it was starting to go downhill. I got a good price on a nearly new system with Crazy Taxi.
I bought it because it was a system with some damn good games that I could suddenly see myself getting very cheap.
And I did.
Today I own 44 legal Dreamcast games, the majority of the ones I purchased where grabbed for comparative chump change.
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That I see as the worse case scenario for my 9 month old Xbox for which I currently own 4 games. If the worst comes to the very worst I'll pick up a mod chip once XBLive dies and use it with emulators as the "Everything before 2000" console.
$50 for a game when people are unemployed. Yeah -sure
Nintendo GameCube: 16 million (or 10-12 million depending on who you believe)
Microsoft Xbox: 8-9 million
Microsoft is not doing so well.
Given that:
- It is extrememly difficult to break into the console market
- Sony and Nintendo have had a MASSIVE head start on Microsoft
- Sony's PS2 has backwards capability to run PS1 games so helping its sales
Am I the only person that actually thinks that Microsoft have done pretty well with only "8-9 million"?Remember the Indrema? It didn't even sell in double figures. Sure the numbers MS have sold are a little off their business plan - but that doesn't mean they haven't done a bad job all things considering.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Massive head start? Xbox shipped before the GC. At least it did here.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Is clearly Tecmo, developer of the DOA series. I can't think of any other Japanese studio that fits the rule better than this.
They also donate to organisations who have 1 goal. Kill unborn children. How bad can you get? Really, Microsoft does donate to good organisations, but they donate to practically everyone, so there's really no point. Should have just come out with better products/ cheaper products.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Could this explain the sudden flood of Sega exclusive games?
Even if it is Sega, this isn't the reason. Sega has long had various R&D groups. AM2, AM3, Sonic Team, etc. They all underwent a name change/reorganization a few years ago. Anyway, Sega seems to be focusing certain games on certain hardware. Very few Sega games have been released recently that are multi-platform. Those X-Box only titles seem to be titles that benefit from the added graphical processing power that the X-Box has (Panzer Dragoon Orta and Shenmue 2 in particular). Other games have been Game Cube and PS2 exclusives (ie: Sonic Mega Collection and Super Monkeyball 1 & 2 on the Game Cube)
None. Don't ask a flawed question that already has the answer you want built-in. I am not telling him how much to donate. But don't sit around and suck his dick just because he donated some money.
Second, Bill has donated MORE (and we are not talking dollars, we are talking RELATIVE net worth) than any the Rockefellors, Carnegie, or any other rich person in history.
You don't get it. $500 million is NOTHING to him. 10% of what? A thousand times more than he will ever be able to spend? That is no sacrifice. What else is he going to do with it, other than donate it? Sure, he could just sit on it, but he wants to be remembered for donating it as well. He didn't call it the AIDS Research Foundation, he called it the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Yes, he built it, so he can call it whatever he wants - he CHOSE to name it after himself. That is pretty arrogant if you ask me.
All you had to do was read one of many articles published over the past few years regarding his philantropy.
This statement says a lot.
So no, you probably have not donated more precentage wise, especially when considering that BillG can not donate investments - he donates LIQUID, and he has a lot less liquid then his net-worth. A lot of his investments return dividends directly into their foundation.
The money is impressive, not the man. It is absolutely no sacrifice whatsoever for him to part with it. The amounts are absolutely impressive, but his "generousity" is not. Why is that insulting? You are stuck on the amounts of money, when it is probably unfathomable amounts to everyone reading this. What is impressive is when something truly comes from the heart, or is based on principle. It think there are two points here: he has donated a lot of money to very good causes, and THAT will do some good in the world. His act of giving it away is not impressive. They are two totally different things.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
If you are limited by your speed connection to the net?
Gimmick say me.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I don't want one ruling my entertainment experience after having ruined a lot of my computing one (until 4 years ago that is).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Investors just put up with that nonsense because MS share were sky high.
Come the IT downturn, recession, and MS showing can't diversify )they are selling far less of these critters that they expected).
I would not like to have MS stock if they don't succeed, and the investors will begin to ask the wisodm in relying on shares (which is basically a bettin system) in place of getting dividends to obtain a return on their investment...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
MS predicted they would sell 11 million Xboxes.
They corrected expectations to 9 million.
They will sell 8 million.
Spin that in favour of MS for our amusement.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And this is why I don't like the PS2's surround "setup" -- because there is none. Each game does its own thing. NHL 2002 and SSX Tricky use DTS (4.1 only..), SOCOM uses PL2 (5.0), most use stereo with maybe DD 5.1 cutscenes (Metal Gear).
Most of the PS1 stuff is prologic encoded (granted, it's probably all premixed). Why couldn't Sony have set down a standard for surround in the PS2?
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
yes, it was! And so was the 3D0!
Generally I think the concensus is that these devices were too early. It's probably also true that they were not quite right, e.g. both of these examples were too expensive, and missing unknown features that will the be the killer apps (which most visionaries seem to assume has something to do with recipies (but maybe games (or maybe PVR features (or maybe dimming the lights for you))).
The other thing is that, the industry could be wrong. Maybe one of these won't ever take over. Or maybe it won't be LIKE a VCR, it'll just BE a VCR... or a computer integrated into the TV itself (oh, quite likely actually). So the industry could be wrong. But watch them keep trying and keep trying, they seem fairly certain it's a matter of time and they know the "footprint" if not the specific functionality that will be the pervasive computing device.
It may even be the devices in the home just get smart independently, Apple is pursuing this a bit, but then, such a world still implies a role for the "hub", which in this case is still some general computing controller for the digital home.
-pyrrho
So what's your solution for gamers in geographical areas where the local cable company does not offer cable Internet access and the telephone company doesn't offer anything faster than ISDN but cheaper than T1?
Is chess a modern game?
OK, not chess, but it's still possible to invent a real-time computer game that's trivially simple to play over dial-up. Just design the play system so that twitches are less important than overall field tactics.
We're talking about games like Madden
22 men? It's possible to encode each's displacement, velocity, and acceleration in about 6 bytes (or less) and fit the whole game state in a single UDP packet. It just shows that good network coding practices, such as having the offensive line done via AI on both sides and dead-reckoning the positions of players, can make games with lots of moving objects still feel fast even over a slow connection.
Furthermore the fact that the system requirements say something is a joke.
My rule of thumb is to take the minimal requirements and double them. That's why I suggested 56K when the requirements stated 28.8.
find the "recommended hardware" instead
Even when taking into account the "recommended" section, the Warcraft III requirements didn't indicate anything greater than 28.8.
If you've actually done it and it works, say so.
Because my main box has a TNT2 and only 128 MB of RAM, and I'm in no financial position to buy more hardware, I have never played Warcraft III, but Warcraft II Battle.net Edition runs just fine over dial-up.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I didn't say "nothign foreign will sell," I said "nothign foreign will sell WELL." Obviously you have also not heard the phrase "foreign import duties." Look it up.
And how many homes have you walked into that featured an American-made television? Kitchen appliances? As for "buy Japanese", I was aiming more at foreign import duties. Both of us have valid points in this discussion, I acknowledge yours with vehemence: I like my PS2, because it's backwards-compatible with the PSX and so includes its vast library of puzzles and RPGS, my favorite genres.
"For the quarter the division posted a loss of $348 million on revenue of $1.28 billion, . It's now believed Microsoft may lose as much as $100 per Xbox console sold." Wasn't this illegal? I remember Atari (Jaguar) sued Sony (PlayStation) because Sony was supposedly selling below their cost... So what's the deal here? As for the "general computer", I'm getting the Shuttle XPC.
Well, just to back-up and clarify my point, the Japanese love *perceived* quality. One of the datapoints in the perception is size. Back in 1970's, when the likes of Sony and Mitsubishi began invading the American coast, the American-made tellies had large cabinetwork. The Japanese-built ones were smaller for the same screen size, leading to better adoption in the small confines of the Japanese houses.
:)
.eu manufacturers of consumer electronics, the Sony's and Mitsubishi's, occupying the second-tier in PQI get the top bidding here. Finally, the North American manufacturers and the Korean/Taiwanese manufacturers come into play. Nevermind that in the electronics component level, these companies are all using the same bloody components built by the lowest bidder.
Same things can be said about the washing machines and the like; the US-built ones that I'm used to (from Kenmore, GE, et. al) are pretty large. The ones in Japan are quite a bit smaller, with more "whizzy" features. Whether or not those features actually help in getting your clothes clean is a topic for another debate
American cars suffer from another dent in the perceived quality issue. They still have the stigma of "poor build quality" inherited from the 1960's or thereabouts. Nevermind that their beloved Toyota's and the like have parts built in Mexico (made-in-Mexico has even lower perceived quality here), but we won't go there.
I think my point is that each manufacturer has a "perceived quality index" attached to them. European companies tend to have the highest PQI (Bulgari, Louis Vuitton, and Rolex in fashion, BMW, Mercedes-Benz (oops, Daimler-Chrysler now), and to a lesser extent, Peugeot in cars). Since there are no major
You're perfectly correct, though, in one respect. The Japanese government did use protectionist tactics to keep American (and other foreign) goods out of the Japanese market. BMW and friends worked around by cultivating an air of exclusivity, while the Fords lost out by trying to compete on (artificial) prices.
Of course, we all know who the largest importer of PCs are, don't we? PC's are consumer electronics, and the bulk of the components within (motherboards and the like) are from the low-PQI areas like Taiwan and Korea. *Perceived* Quality Index is not an indication of real quality. *sigh*.
# just as a standard disclaimer, I *am* Japanese. A relative works for Sony, and my employer does business with Sony (and other Japanese companies), but my opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or my family.
Any time a company lays down minimum standards, people only do the minimum. If you set minimums for things like surround sound of a certain type and quality, then all games will have it. Simple, ne?
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Under the DMCA, mod chips are illegal because they undermine explicitly designed copy protection mechanisms, if you want to be technical.
There is also the issue of the EULA which is a binding contract between you and Microsoft when you purchase an Xbox. If it says you can't modify it, you can't! "Read this before opening or return it"
Risch's decision procedure for integration, not surprisingly,
uses a recursion on the number and type of the extensions from the
rational functions needed to represent the integrand. Although the
algorithm follows and critically depends upon the appropriate structure
of the input, as in the case of multivariate factorization, we cannot
claim that the algorithm is a natural one. In fact, the creator of
differential algebra, Ritt, committed suicide in the early 1950's,
largely, it is claimed, because few paid attention to his work. Probably
he would have received more attention had he obtained the algorithm as well.
-- Joel Moses, "Algorithms and Complexity", ed. J.F. Traub
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