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It's possible, but not likely. The way I see it working for a Windows client is having some program on the guest OS running at some insanely high priority which is somehow able to always allocate enough RAM on the guest OS side to compensate for the host OS using RAM.

But really, this is the same kind of problem that you would have trying to virtualize the hard disk. Even on the same OS, it takes a very specialized filesystem to handle two separate OSes writing to the same filesystem simultaneously -- useful for things like network attached storage.

You also have the standard problems of virtualization -- every OS assumes that a partition is a large, physical chunk of space. Same with RAM -- the smart ones (Linux) also attempt to use all of the RAM they can for buffers and caching, so that spare RAM is always used for something. But here, you'd want the guest OS to behave like a program, and surrender spare RAM back to the host OS.

I'm sure if Microsoft wanted to play nice, something could be done about this. But then, if Microsoft wanted to play nice, wouldn't they help out with Wine? I like wine -- virtualization is always guaranteed to be as slow or slower than dual-boot. Wine can actually run faster, depending on the application and how much you've tuned the host OS. For one thing, with virtualization or emulation, you're using a disk image, which either has to be allocated all at once, or gets fragmented as it expands. Like LVM, you now have a fragmented filesystem on top of a fragmented image(file) on another filesystem. Take all of the slowness you get from fragmentation, and double it, and you have an idea of what it's like.

What this really means is, virtualization is not a way to take one computer and make it into two computers, equally fast. It means you take one computer, and split it in half -- one half per OS. There are tricks you can do to make it better, but it'll never be quite as good as something like Wine. The trick is, either make Wine work, or actually get a second computer. I have a PowerPC Powerbook, because I got it before the Intel switch, and I'll never risk Windows on a laptop. My desktop dual-boots XP and a 64-bit Gentoo, so if I must run a secure Unix and a stubborn Windows app (that doesn't work on Wine) at the same time, I set down my Mac next to my PC. If I end up doing that a lot, I'll buy a KVM switch or use VNC; as it is, it's not a big deal.

And Wine is so much better than virtualization -- Wine can actually be faster than dual-boot, but virtualization will never be as fast as dual-boot. It's certainly no out-of-the-box, cureall solution like Parallels, but its incompatibility and bugginess is greatly exaggurated.

But if you must virtualize, I'd much rather use kqemu under Ubuntu. Free (as in beer), and 64-bit support now.

Civ4 reportedly works fine in Cedega. I personally dual boot, and use Windows for Civ 4, as I was never personally satisfied with Cedega, preferring Wine 90% of the time... But Dynomite has a Platinum rating with Wine, which means that it should work perfectly out of the box.

VMware doesn't support 3D hardware acceleration, what you need is Wine or Cedega, I don't know about the other game, but Civ4 is running perfectly fine on my Linux machine under Cedega, check this guide for details.

Before you try to run a game under Wine or Cedega, I suggest you check their respective databases at appdb.winehq.org and transgaming.org/gamesdb.

VMware doesn't support 3D hardware acceleration, what you need is Wine or Cedega, I don't know about the other game, but Civ4 is running perfectly fine on my Linux machine under Cedega, check this guide for details.

Before you try to run a game under Wine or Cedega, I suggest you check their respective databases at appdb.winehq.org and transgaming.org/gamesdb.

Not to start a flamewar but

You just did. It wouldn't hurt to do a little Google research, as most of the things you say are so untrue that I'd mod you -1 Flamebait/Astroturf if I had the points.

Does it even support winforms yet?

Yes.

.Net 2.0 is coming with VS.net 2005 and Mono has still not caught up with VS.net 2003.

Most of the 1.0 code is complete. 2.0 isn't complete, but what's implemented should work.

But cross platform it is not and its a MS technology just like win32 is, though you can have limited success with wine.

I'd hardly call 4210 applications "limited". Now, I have no clue how many of those work, or work well without tweaking, but between Wine and Cedega, I rarely run into legit apps that don't work. Of course, tools for pirating stuff like Daemon Tools causes problems...

But maybe try it before you knock it? Recent Wines are actually getting pretty damn good. It's amazing how often I'll just download some random free app off the Internet and have it work flawlessly.

More importantly, are you familiar with the history of Linux? Unix was as proprietary an OS as they come, yet they actually published APIs and stuck to them. The GNU people were essentially doing what the WineLib people are doing -- reimplementing the APIs. They weren't shooting for binary compatibility, but they wanted people to be able to take any Unix program and, with a minimum of tweaking, recompile it for the GNU system.

And really, you don't need 100% compatibility. Getting 99% compatibility probably means you get 99% of people able to switch to Linux, which means the 1% stuck on Windows are about as relevant as the 1% currently stuck on DOS.

Mono is even easier, because it was designed to be cross-platform. The actual, official Microsoft .NET code has been ported to Linux, so we know it can be done. And no sane opensource person is afraid of it because it's Microsoft's tech -- if it comes to that, we can always fork it. The fact that it was designed by an evil/incompetent corporation doesn't necessarily mean the tech was a bad idea. Think about it -- how relevant is the original AT&T Unix compared to Linux these days?

Just use Windows. If the server is cracked its the ISP's problem. Not yours if you outsource the server.

I wouldn't count on it. If the server is cracked, the "ISP" (hosting provider, most of them don't sell Internet access) certainly has a problem. But who's going to answer why you went with that provider?

I've had two versions of QuickBooks Pro. Presently, version 2004. I've tried on several occations to get Quickbooks to work under Wine. Along the way, I've heard of people having various levels of success, particularly if they first install it on Windows and then move the files over to the fake windows drive under WINE. However upon reviewing this thread on Slashdot, it dawned on me that there is another huge name in the accounting business. Peach Tree. So I went on over to the AppDB at winehq.com and looked up PeachTree. I was stunned to see only one person had filed a report about it. It looks like version 2005 works fairly well under WINE as reported here:http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId =3817

Now I know it isn't Open Source, but could we sway Peach Tree to make a Linux version using winelib. We can point to the recent port of GoogleEarth as a recent success story. Or maybe we could ask PeachTree to open up their code in exchange for publicity and a huge jump in market share.

There is GNUCash,

KMyMoney
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/index-home.html

As I said earlier, it's kind of both a good and a bad thing that ReactOS exists. It's definitely not going to help get very much Linux software available, which probably isn't a good thing for people like us. But the point I was trying to make is that creating an alternative operating system compatible with existing software would at least be a bit more practical in the long run, if not very ideal, because the existing software applications could continue to run (eventually) without problems, and there wouldn't be any licensing stuff to muck around with.

That said, I think that there's actually quite a bit of good ReactOS could do as well. Because it's an open-source effort, once it's finally at a stable release, it might be possible to, say, mix and match ReactOS code with Linux, possibly even adding "native" support for Windows software and drivers into Linux – something far lower-level, more integrated, and more capable than, say, Wine or NdisWrapper would be able to do.

And honestly, there are still a lot of things Linux/UNIX will always be able to do better than any Windows-ish system, and a lot of die-hards who would never use anything else. So for all we know, things may just continue the way they are today: The proprietary software companies will still be there, but for those who want a choice, a better system, or a cute penguin mascot, there are alternatives. Only time will tell.

Or beta.

Actually it can be done, i did it some time ago but the peculiar behaviour of the actual viewing portal and the toolbars made it pretty cumbersome, http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3254 had some tips.

Still, i'm very pleased that google have chosen to put the time and effort they have into their recent linux ports, this will be far more useful... ok, maybe just fun then, than picasa.

The fact is that Linux isn't there yet. Trust me, I tried for five years, and while I did see alot of improvement, the fact that I just can't buy a printer without checking some list speaks volumes.

I keep hearing this, and I can't help thinking that by the same general guidelines Windows isn't there yet; the fact that you have to romp through driver discs and various web sites just to get your hardware supported, then go through the same again for applications to actually be able to do something useful speaks volumes of its own. Deployment-wise Linux is already ahead, and usability-wise it's really a matter of training.

I wouldn't buy a printer blind even if I were a Windows user. As a Linux user "some list" enables me to vote with my wallet and choose a vendor who sees fit to provide me with service.

Would the '98 user be able to keep running his same version of Quicken (also likely outdated)?

Possibly not, but then again he might be able to use the same data with some other application. Speaking as a person with nil experience about accounting software, here.

World of Warcraft runs on Cedega.

Yes, that makes sense, from a hardware perspective. But keep in mind there can also be software emulation. I know Wikipedia isn't always the best place to find facts, but here is what they have to say (It should be noted that WINE is listed as an external link at the bottom). Hell, they even say themselves that it is an emulator.

according to the FAQ (http://picasa.google.com/linux/faq.html#24):

Q: Will more Google applications be ported to Linux under Wine?
If Picasa for Linux is successful, then other Google applications (and future versions of Picasa) may also be written to the Wine APIs so that they can easily run on both Windows and Linux. For more info on Wine, please visit http://winehq.org./

No, you don't. Wine runs "out of the box" without any additions from Microsoft.

They have their own versions of dll's and the like. It's an emulator rather than a virtual machine.

Unfortunately, WINE doesn't work very well with more obscure applications (for example, I tried running some poker s/w - no go). Though it does have quite an impressive list of things that *do* work - 4097 to date (see http://appdb.winehq.org/).

I suspect that they are one of the many developers out there who have been a victim of the Microsoft policy of obfuscation and changing API's to thwart anyone else but the chosen (and usually expensive) few.

Photoshop
Flash

The Wine project is looking for students!
http://wiki.winehq.org/SummerOfCode

Wine is a great opportunity to make a mark on the world.
Wine is already production quality -- I'm
posting this using Windows Firefox on Wine --
but many apps are just a few APIs away from running.
Join the Wine project now and help us light the world on fire :-)

http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2890

HL2 works with Wine just fine. I know, I've done it. The only downside is that it only supports the DX8 renderpath, so you miss out on some of the eyecandy.

"I keep Windows for testing sites in IE"

[billg@redmond ~/.wine/c/Program Files/Internet Explorer]$ wine iexplore.exe

Even after the problems I had compiling wine with 64 bit linux and installing IE 5, 5.5 and 6 (the installers use legacy 16 bit code which breaks under 64 bit *nix), I found it worth the effort. I can do all my browser compatability testing (MSIE, Firefox (windows), Firefox (linux) Konquorer (for KHTML as used in safari)) on one platform. For those of you running 32 bit linux, if you can't get IE running properly then it is time to turn in your geek card and buy an XP licence!

IE is not an excuse to keep windows.

Thanks to the Wine Developers Developers Developers at http://winehq.org/ for the great work!

It doesn't anymore, and the Wine guys said long ago that they will not waste their time playing catch up. But here's a little nugget from the latest newsletter; Microsoft mentioning Wine in their Genuine Advantage FAQs. :)

Having mentioned Wine, the OP might want to check out the Wine applications database to get more ideas.

Having mentioned Wine, the OP might want to check out the Wine applications database to get more ideas.

ok. ok. ok. But what if these report will increase the likelihood. Intel-Macs XP-Macs Everything is possible. I would prefer Apple to invest into WINE so that you will be able to run Windows applications on Macs. It is just a matter of time and money.

Under Linux, you can run IE6 under WINE, just see the application database to find information on how to set it up.

Hmmm...

http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2006-Ma rch/045571.html

"So there we have it - this appears to be the first release in which they simply started dropping APIs."

"And, therefore, the first time for which we can categorically state that Wine will be more compatible with Windows applications than Windows itself."

"Not to mention that they're handing a near-fatal blow to OpenGL support, too."

etc.

Emulation is hard. The Wine project has been started 13 years ago, and they still support only a handfull of applications.

From Winehq.com :
This is the Wine Application Database (AppDB). From here you get info on application compatibility with Wine.
...
There are 3717 applications currently in the database

I suppose that's what you call a handfull... Either you have very big hands or you just won clueless points for yourself.

As for the 13 years.... Wine IS here and thats why such a compatibility layer, if supported by Apple, would not be far away. But compatibility layers are only one form of emulation amongst others. These 13 years are an asset as is experience earned over time, not something deterrent.

As for Virtual machines it all depends on your situation. If you're a business longing for Mac productivity and ease of use and maintenance in your office but can't swith due to some pieces of software you don't necessarily want the performance and financial hit of adding a whole OS, a whole set of licences and a whole lot of configuration whoes to your system.

On the other hand, running SAP GUI or an accounting software in the same environment as your Mac office suite may appeal quite a bunch of persons.

thats not really true, maybe you need to prove what your saying? You make no sense saying not to trust them, then posting a link to them about... what?

or your saying winehq is just lying and you know better?

http://www.winehq.org/site/myths

...because Wine has *never* been an acronym for "Wine Is Not (an) Emulator".

It does in fact stand for WINdows Emulator.

Or at least until as recently as July 2003 it did...

"Wine (the Un*x Windows emulator)"

http://www.winehq.org/?issue=160

The "debunking myths" guy got it wrong. Let him consider himself debunked!

The only program I have found that satisfies your requirements (except the linux part) is PCB123 (PCB123.com)

It looks like someone is trying to get it to work under Wine:

http://www.winehq.org/hypermail/wine-bugs/2004/06/ 0125.html

Since this bug is so old maybe it has been fixed by now.

Of course the downside of PCB123 is that you don't get a Gerber file, you are required to use the PCB123 board fabrication services. I personally think they are pretty good so don't mind being tied to one vendor.

Don't most of these run on Linux under Wine/Codeweavers Crossover anyway? http://appdb.winehq.org/

Basically if you can run Wine on your computer then you can run Winelib. But the converse is not true. You can also build Winelib and Winelib applications on platforms not supported by Wine, typically platforms with a non i386 processor. But this is still pretty much uncharted territory. It would be more reasonable to target one of the more mundane i386-based platforms first.

I am sure 20 slashdot users will say STFU troll but doesn't Wine http://www.winehq.org/ run photoshop? I have been using wine a lot lately and most programs that I don't have windows versions for started really running well with current wine versions 9.5+. I have not tried photoshop in wine, but I would be really suprised if it did not run.

I know this is repeat info for most people, but for the newbies...

There's actually an online application database where people have submitted their experiences/successes in getting Windows apps to run under Wine. If you want to see how well Office 2k3 works under Wine, this'd be the first place to look. Conversely, if you have success running a given Windows app, be sure to submit your experiences. Feedback to the App DB not only helps other Wine users, but is helpful feedback for Wine developers on outstanding compatibility issues.

The URL is: http://appdb.winehq.org/

FYI - not all applications work properly under wine or Crossover - here are just a few examples direct from the WINE application database: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2023 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3688 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=757 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3678 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=725

FYI - not all applications work properly under wine or Crossover - here are just a few examples direct from the WINE application database: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2023 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3688 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=757 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3678 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=725

FYI - not all applications work properly under wine or Crossover - here are just a few examples direct from the WINE application database: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2023 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3688 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=757 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3678 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=725

FYI - not all applications work properly under wine or Crossover - here are just a few examples direct from the WINE application database: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2023 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3688 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=757 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3678 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=725

FYI - not all applications work properly under wine or Crossover - here are just a few examples direct from the WINE application database: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2023 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3688 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=757 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=3678 http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=725

Photoshop CS2 runs on Linux

A month ago, I would have said Continuum (formerly called Subspace)... a wonderful free (as in beer) massively multiplayer online game, the oldest running one in history. Fast paced, extremely addictive, excellent gameplay.

But some nice people hacked WINE and got it working (see also WineHQ Notes), something I've been waiting for for years.

I'm now thoroughly wasting all my time in this game again, without the guilty feeling of booting Windows for it! Screenshot

Are you running it in DirectX or OpenGL mode? It's goldlisted, so maybe you should file a bug report about it. Because if everyone starts buying it but it doesn't work properly, they'll be sorely disappointed with WINE.

Disclaimer: I have never looked at WINE code before... Is this the patch you mean? wine/dlls/gdi/metafile.c rev 1.11 to 1.12 The "Escape" function that calls after the new validation is defined in wine/dlls/gdi/driver.c (search for "Escape(", sorry the link isn't direct...). Before I waste too much time thinking about this and reading code, can you confirm that I'm looking at the right patch? Thanks...

Disclaimer: I have never looked at WINE code before... Is this the patch you mean? wine/dlls/gdi/metafile.c rev 1.11 to 1.12 The "Escape" function that calls after the new validation is defined in wine/dlls/gdi/driver.c (search for "Escape(", sorry the link isn't direct...). Before I waste too much time thinking about this and reading code, can you confirm that I'm looking at the right patch? Thanks...

The most recent time this was discussed by the wine developers is in this thread. At one time some Mono developers were linking wine to mono, but then they got upset about the changes in the Wine API for Linux programs (this was before the 0.9 release), and they decided to just do all WinForms-related stuff with native .NET code. AFAIK no one has tried to do anything in that direction since the 0.9 release.

Tried it. Looks like Wine can't quite handle it yet,
so I filed a bug report in Wine's bugzilla:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4258

The WINE libraries don't even include an equivalent of the DLL that causes the problem for Microsoft.

http://cvs.winehq.org/cvsweb/wine/dlls/gdi/

WTF are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure a more accurate expansion of WINE is: Wine Is Not a (CPU) Emulator. See the Wine FAQ. As you correctly point out, Wine emulates (implements?) the Windows API, using the native CPU to execute code.

Wine's Escape - SetAbort handler and it's called in EndPage. Looks like it could be vulnerable.

Wine's Escape - SetAbort handler and it's called in EndPage. Looks like it could be vulnerable.

Regular slashdot readers woule be aware that the 'red box' dream of rhapsody is to some degree being realised in the form of Darwine, itself based on wine

Don't hold your breath relying on Microsoft to be a good Mac community member and open sourcing this 'legacy' browser. If true IE compatibility is required then at least in theory it is possible to run the real thing under wine in OS X.

The advantage of this strategy is that by contributing to wine's completeness, other Windows applications will be runnable within OS X. :)

Sure you'll be running a Windows app, but you'll be able to browse all the IE-dependant intranet webapps your Windows XP colleagues use, from the sanctity of your Mac environment.

Bugs and issues with various applications run through WINE (as well as success rates/how-tos) can be found on their website. The link below is specific to Internet Explorer which currently seems borked, however it has run in the past.
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=469