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As someone who has a degree in botany and has worked in greenhouses that were maintained at 1500ppm. You should know that CO2 levels become dangerous at 5000 ppm, not 1200ppm.

Your degree in botany may speak to your ability to determine what effect CO2 has on plants, but it has no bearing on your ability to determine its effects on humans and other mammals. CO2 has negative health repercussions beginning at about 1000 ppm, which vary between individuals. Working environments with 1500 ppm CO2 can definitely be harmful to health. (They may also reduce plants' ability to absorb nitrogen, but that's a separate argument.)

So Wisconsin, where the plant actually is, was fine with it, to the point of cutting their taxes on revenue from the plant to encourage it to be built, but I guess since Illinois isn't going to see much revenue from it, they want to line up to stop it, instead?

(BTW, in case you wondered, like I did, Racine County ends about 6-8 miles from the Illinois border. The plant location itself is about 15 miles away.)

So still curious, I took a look at the WI site for air quality and Racine, as well as the County between it an Illinois, looks fine. Even if you go to the highest ozone level report, it's still maxing out at 47ppb. So it may have hit 70 at some point (Summer is usually worse), but it's probably not a frequent occurrence that it's up there. Certainly nothing to shut down a plant hiring 3k -13k workers over. I notice none of the articles attempt to quantify what, if any, difference the plant will make to ozone levels.

Foxconn is NOT just getting a tax cut. The state is paying cash to Foxconn. Most of that $3B is cash out of the state coffers that is paid to Foxconn.

You really need to stop just blindly replaying sensationalist news articles as factual. The actual bill provides refundable tax credits, primarily as follows: (1) 17% of the first $100k of each full-time employee's wages, up to an aggregate total of $1.5 billion; and (2) 15% of the company's capital expenditures, up to an aggregate total of $1.35 billion.

So any money from Wisconsin is (a) only offsetting a small percentage of Foxconn's expenditures in the state; and (b) only a cash payment to Foxconn to the extent Foxconn doesn't have any income taxes to offset.

Unless you're holding out on us and really have a crystal ball to know that Foxconn's income taxes will be near zero for the next 10 years, you have no basis for your statement.

So, they can get a credit equal to 17% of their payroll each year until it reaches a total of $1.5b. They can get a credit for 15% of their annual capital expenditures up to $1.35 billion. The remaining $.25b is a preexisting manufacturing credit.

They spend and hire as agreed, or get nothing. If they do as you say, they have to pay it all back.

They do have a minimum drinking age, however underage persons may be served when accompanied by parent/guardian of legal age.

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/125/I/07/1

I'm not convinced that state legislatures would be any better. Industries already control/influence state legislatures the same way they influence senators. E.g., here in WI "The serving of colored oleomargarine or margarine at a public eating place as a substitute for table butter is prohibited unless it is ordered by the customer." (source) State representitives didn't do that out of any moral convition; it happened because the dairly lobby is powerful. See also state legislatures being bought off by ISPs to put the kibosh on municipal broadband. Combine that with the fact that many state legislatures have lots of problems), and I don't see why repealing the 17th amendment would be in improvement.

(That said, I think there are a few too many elected offices. E.g. we shouldn't be electing judges. However, I think that electing senators is fine.)

Although many people don't think about lard in baked goods (other than maybe biscuits), it works quite well there. Oreos was made with lard until sometime in the '90s when the replaced it with -- wait for it -- partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. It looks like we've come full circle. (Yes, I know oreos aren't exactly the greatest baked good, but it can work elsewhere too.)

That said, you only listed tallow and lard. Don't forget about butter and rendered chicken fat (schmaltz), which is really good stuff (and is often a byproduct of cooking chicken).

On an unrelated note, Wisconsin is ahead of the curve on regulating trans fats courtesy of the butter lobby:

97.18 (4) The serving of colored oleomargarine or margarine at a public eating place as a substitute for table butter is prohibited unless it is ordered by the customer.
97.18 (5) The serving of oleomargarine or margarine to students, patients or inmates of any state institutions as a substitute for table butter is prohibited...

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.g...

Hell, it was illegal to sell margarine here for many years.

The law specifies areas where you have to yield to pedestrians. See for instance this explanation given by the Wisconsin authorities. A typical case that will not be prosecuted is when a driver kills a pedestrian that entered the road outside of any crossing or specific designation for pedestrians and without checking for incoming traffic.

Do you really think these idiot cyclists don't know what a red light means? They know; they just don't care. A license would not fix that. (Altho it may make the idiots easier to fine.)

It's not like drivers really know the laws relating to cyclists either, and there are some unexpected laws (example). That said, I'm fine with cyclists having to get a license -- as long as drivers have to pass a rigorous test of laws related to bikes...

I'm in Wisconsin. We don't all have 4x4 drive, tire chains are ILLEGAL

That comment is wrong, they are allowed for safety reasons. Studs are banned except for service vehicles http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb...

Section 347.45, Wisconsin Statutes, generally prohibits the use of studded tires, but provides exceptions for authorized emergency vehicles, school buses, vehicles used to deliver mail, and out-of-state vehicles passing through this state over a period of not more than 30 days. When allowed for those uses, the studs must not project more than one-eighth inch beyond the tread surface of the tire, and may be used on those specified vehicles only during November 15-April 1. Tire chains may be used on any vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid.

Sorry but tire chains ARE allowed in Wisconsin.

Straight from the Wisconsin code:

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.go...

b) Tire chains of reasonable proportions may be used on any vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid.

In Atlanta, it can get over 100 degrees (with 100% humidity) in the summer. Nothing closes; people go about their business. When that happens in Wisconsin, people die. I think you Wisconsin folks are pussies because you can't deal with the heat!

The difference is that, things you can effectively protest by physically being in a given space are effective for the reason that your presence blocks *other humans* from doing something. That is to say, there's an equality between what is being blocked and the means used to block it.

But in the case of pressing a refresh button: there is no human at the other end of the network whose work is blocked by you clicking refresh. Your protest is up against an automated process. When protesting by "occupying" a website, there is no longer a level of equality between the humans doing the protesting and the automated processes they're trying to obstruct. Using automated proceses for the protest levels the playing field.

See, I was wondering how they were going to draw a physical parallel to what they were doing that *WAS* a legal form of protest. The closest I could think of was a union mob blocking the entrance to a business, BUT that is illegal. You cannot legally protest by obstructing right of way (without a permit). Right of way also includes the entrance of a business to a road front in most states, for instance. So blocking where cars and trucks enter a property would be illegal. By blocking all/any IP traffic to a machine connected to the Internet wouldn't you be violating "virtual" rights of way and thereby be acting illegally in the same sense as the union mob?

Because:
- You have to get to a government office to obtain the free ID
- Many government offices have reduced hours, particularly in poor / rural areas (which have the largest concentrations of voters who would need IDs)
- The cost to obtain the documentation needed to get the free ID can be prohibitive (birth certificate, marriage license, passport, etc)

Let's pretend you are a married woman living near Sauk City, Wisconsin. Maybe you work 8-5 at a diner to help make ends meet. Want to get your free ID? No problem!
- Just show up between 8:15am-4:15pm on the 5th Wed of the month
- Bring a certified birth certificate (don't have one? It's only $20, and takes about a month via mail.)
- And bring a certified marriage license (because of your name change) Another $20, and one month to process via mail.

So yeah, not a burden on the poor at all.

Because:
- You have to get to a government office to obtain the free ID
- Many government offices have reduced hours, particularly in poor / rural areas (which have the largest concentrations of voters who would need IDs)
- The cost to obtain the documentation needed to get the free ID can be prohibitive (birth certificate, marriage license, passport, etc)

Let's pretend you are a married woman living near Sauk City, Wisconsin. Maybe you work 8-5 at a diner to help make ends meet. Want to get your free ID? No problem!
- Just show up between 8:15am-4:15pm on the 5th Wed of the month
- Bring a certified birth certificate (don't have one? It's only $20, and takes about a month via mail.)
- And bring a certified marriage license (because of your name change) Another $20, and one month to process via mail.

So yeah, not a burden on the poor at all.

Because:
- You have to get to a government office to obtain the free ID
- Many government offices have reduced hours, particularly in poor / rural areas (which have the largest concentrations of voters who would need IDs)
- The cost to obtain the documentation needed to get the free ID can be prohibitive (birth certificate, marriage license, passport, etc)

Let's pretend you are a married woman living near Sauk City, Wisconsin. Maybe you work 8-5 at a diner to help make ends meet. Want to get your free ID? No problem!
- Just show up between 8:15am-4:15pm on the 5th Wed of the month
- Bring a certified birth certificate (don't have one? It's only $20, and takes about a month via mail.)
- And bring a certified marriage license (because of your name change) Another $20, and one month to process via mail.

So yeah, not a burden on the poor at all.

Room temperature insulin is good for 28-30 days (source: Wisconsin department of Health Services).

The unit in question had a 300 unit reservior. Even assuming an abnormally low usage of 10 units per day that is only 30 days, and 25 or more units is very common. The 45 days number is pure garbage.

With regards to your question... the federal government does not mandate automobile insurance for drivers on the interstates. The federal government mandates compliance with state laws on the interstates, and not all states require automobile insurance (just proof of assets equal to state liability minimums, such as Wisconsin.)

Ah, you mean because of this?

Well, I have bad news for you. The laws changed last year. The current information provided by the state government reflects that. More details on page 4 of this PDF.

Those are hits 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of googling "wisconsin auto insurance laws" (without quotes).

Are you often caught arguing without the facts?

Not really. Are you? Mmmmhhhhmmmm....

Bullshit. With the exception of maybe the children of immigrants, illegal immigrants genreally do not qualify for any type of welfare, food stamps, or housing assistance. Regarding health care, studies have shown that illegal immigrants place a lower burden on our health care system than citizens of the same socioeconomic class. [reuters.com] Here is a second study [ama-assn.org] which came to the same conclusion. Here is a third [arizona.edu]. A fourth [healthaffairs.org].

You are the one being ignorant. I't obvious that illegal immigrants put less of a burden on our health care system. They don't want to risk deportation so they are less likely to go to a hospital or clinic when injured or sick. Simple logic dictates that if said illegal immigrants were not here in the first place their impact on our health care system would be zero. This would free up resources to help unemployed and underemployed Americans who cannot afford health care. It would also free up low paying (better than nothing) jobs for unemployed Americans.

I've never heard of a state giving illegals welfare-type benefits. I'd love a link to these programs in Wisconsin you speak of. Got one?

Sure. Look at Badger Care for health care. Check out this link has a pretty good description of available benefits.

That's how it works here in Wisconsin.

And for both of you who demand the statue instead of the explanation, here it is. (pdf, 400k)

Also, WI DOT page on drunk driving which starts off "Wisconsin has the highest rate of drunken driving in the nation."

I understand that if you're not from around here, you may not understand how culturally important alcoholism is to us, but that doesn't validate your lifestyle over mine.

There's no denying that many people on bikes break lots of rules (I keep "random schmuck on a bike" and "cyclist" distinct -- the former is the superset of the latter -- people who also ride bikes for recreation). As a cyclist who obeys most of them, it annoys me to no end, because they piss off drivers, making life harder for everyone.

That said, it doesn't make sense to hold cyclists to a higher standard than motorists. How many people come to a complete stop at a stop sign if there's no cross traffic? Do motorists follow all posted speed limits?

On a related note, what exactly do you expect cyclists to do in a 45mph zone? Go the same speed as the cars? At least in the states I've been in, there's no legal obligation to maintain a minimum speed on such roads. Unless it's a downhill, whatever speed the bike is going will be slow compared to that of the cars, so what does it matter that they're going at a leisurely pace?

Which gets to the real heart of the issue. Many of the things that cyclists do to irritate motorists aren't illegal or are the same illegal things that motorists do. Let's take your cyclist using the shoulder example. Here's some applicable WI law:

A motorist passing a bicyclist in the same lane is require to give the bicyclist at least 3 feet of clearance, and to maintain that clearance until safely past. [346.075] A bicyclist passing a stopped or moving vehicle is also required to give at least 3 feet of clearance when passing. [346.80(2)]

For some reason reason (anger, ignorance, convenience, whatever) most cars don't give 3 feet of clearance. The law says that people on bikes can pass stopped vehicles. Why do you expect them to give 3 feet of clearance in that situation when they were just denied it? How about they stay in the middle of the lane (as suggested by the state) and hold up traffic when the light turns green instead?

Again, I agree that many people on bikes are assholes and break many traffic laws. Their actions annoy me too. For what it's worth, I won't ride down the shoulder at a stopped light unless I have clearance (cyclists have plenty of torque at 0rpm, so can often match a car's acceleration in a green light situation, so it's possible to not hold up traffic while remaining in lane), I don't blow through stop signs (although I don't come to a complete stop unless I have to), and I obey all traffic lights (however, at least in WI, you're allowed to go through a red light under certain situations, since many will not register the presence of a bicycle and so will not turn green). I think those are fair compromises -- similar to the ones cars make all the time. Don't hold cyclists to a higher standard than the average driver on the road.

Great, another person who spouts off about something they do not comprehend...

Wisconsin as a STATE doesnt do emission testing, the federal emission standards are applied to regions, not entire states. And certain regions in the state of Wisconsin do indeed do emission testing.

See for Yourself

Hint: In most of those cities (and in Denver for sure, and apparently Wisconsin too), the sign with the Exit number on it is on the left side of the sign if it's a left-hand exit, and on the right side of the sign if it's a right-hand exit.

quote: 1 or 2 beers also won't put you anywhere near the .08 or .12 levels. Not even close. :quote

I'm calling bullshit on that one! An "average" 180lb human can consume only 2 beers in ONE hour before being over the 0.08 limit.

see: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/drunk driving/calculator.htm

http://dllr.state.md.us/labor/empm.html

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/publications/erd/pdf/ erd_9212_p.pdf

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/ChildLaborPamphlet2000. html#8

http://198.234.41.198/w3/webwh.nsf/Files/MLLPoster .pdf/$FILE/MLLPoster.pdf

I'm not going to go through all 50 states, but as far as I know there are not ANY states in the US that do not severely limit the number of hours a minor can work. Tell me this... What do you think a 15 year old girl is going to do when it is a crime for a legitimate employer to hire her, going to the police to report that her parents are fulfilling their legal requirements to support her will lead to her arrest, and she hasn't eaten for 3 days?

This doesn't even take into account that they need a special permit that often cannot be obtained.

It happens all too often in manure pits and silos. To sewer workers as well. Request for Assistance in Preventing Deaths of Farm Workers in Manure Pits, Sewer Gas

"I buy groceries once a week...I fill up the front seat and floorboard of my car easily..."

Groceries:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&it em=6783518401
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/S earch?storeId=10001&referredURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.a rgos.co.uk%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2FSea rch%3FstoreId%3D10001&referrer=FG13P&searchTerms=2 852706&params=P6813
http://www.kayslifestyle.co.uk/psnlnet/product.asp x?sid=FMNJA95VFXLQBRN080FB0RF3561EW9J8&brand=KaysL S&prod_id=211251

You'll notice these are all UK sites, we already have an extensive rail network. It's common for people to shop with these.

"cold snowy climate like MN would have problems with a system like this..."

The Taxi2000 system shouldn't be affected much, the running surfaces are enclosed in the track. The UK ATS Ultra system would be affected by heavy snow. Depends on the implementation.

"Would be VERY difficult to evacuate with this system in such small cars."

You say that, but people use automobiles which aren't much bigger. A single Taxi2000 track is designed to take 7,200 vehicles per hour, 21,000 people/hour. It's the equivalent of a 3 lane highway. The performance limiting step with PRT systems is actually the stations, it takes 20-30 seconds to chose a destination and get into the vehicle (180 vehicles/hour/bay).

"All your records you need...family pictures."

You're kidding right. You're the one holding up traffic on the highway with the sofa strapped to the roof of your car?

"Elderly people and their walker/wheelchairs..."

The taxi2000 system is designed to accomodate wheelchairs.

"How would one of these function as an ambulance with all the equipment they need? Firetrucks? Police?"

It wouldn't but I'd expect police stations and hospitals to have stations built in.

"and if you have all these roads and vehicles still...what do you need the new 'transit' system for"

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d1/verona/im ages/congestion.jpg
http://www.portcult.com/DRIVING-emfhell26.jpg
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/whoweare/img/traffic.jpg
http://www.dorsetcc.gov.uk/media/images/8/j/Ridgew ay2large.jpg
http://www.metrokc.gov/kcdot/news/photos/2002-2/09 3002corridor.jpg

Google has lots more.

I believe you are mistaken. A quick google on it turned up the following:

Wisconsin's gas tax goes into a transportation fund.

In 1997, we switched from general fund to an infrastructure fund (the Highway Trust Fund) for the federal gas tax

Indiana's gas tax is the primary fund source for local road work.

This is just a quick top-of-google sample-- I'll let you do the rest of the states.

Just remember, REAL AMERICANS HATE TURKEYS!!!

That's why REAL AMERICANS kill MILLIONS of turkeys every year by cruelly chopping off their heads, ripping out their entrails, pull all the feathers off the still twitching body, and quick freeze the resulting carcass for distribution to millions of REAL AMERICAN's homes so that each and every one of us can participate in disposing of the carcass.

Too bad we can't do that with all the deer around my neighborhood, but for some reason, most REAL AMERICANs think deer are cute, instead of viscious blood thirsty killers.

Why, did you know that in 2003, in Wisconsin alone, deers KILLED 13 americans, and wounded another 792 innocent REAL AMERICANS? ( Courtesey of the Wisonsin DOT)

Or the cyclist needs to learn how to obey the law and stop at the stop sign.

Granted, that is a state link, but I was under the impression it was a federal law, or at the very least a widely adopted state law. Bycicles are a legal vehicle of the road and as such they should follow the same rules that motorized street-legal vehicles do. Of course, you can't ride a bike in an area with a minimum speed higher than you can maintain, such as an Interstate Highway.

Two years ago, the Wisconsin Capitol Building completed a renovation project that has left the building absolutely beautiful. The dome is only a few feet shorter than the National Capitol in DC, and the building is infinitely more accessible. Tours run all the time, and in this weather, you can still get out to the observation decks for a view across the isthmus that makes up the downtown. State Street (the local college crawl) runs from the Capitol to the University, an easy walk. And if you're in town the right night, MADLug is meeting at the Steep and Brew on State.

Here's an indication I need my morning coffee. I am reading all of your posts with Moo this and Moo that, and I think to myself, aren't they supposed to be talking about .. Master Of Orion Then it dawned upon me what was going on. At first I was thinking cows...perhaps it's because I live in the dairy state

For example, Wisconsin's Do Not Call List affects out-of-state telemarketers, with exceptions for non-commercial, non-profit and a few other uses.

It appears that last month, with more than a month to go before the law took effect, more than one million Wisconsinites joined the No Call List. For a state with an adult population in the area of four million, that's pretty impressive. Apparently a great deal of the state hates the calls as much as I do. If you're in Wisconsin, join the crowd and get on the No Call List, it's the cool thing to do!

https://nocall.wisconsin.gov/web/includes/help/con sumerfaq.asp#howlong

https://nocall.wisconsin.gov/ will go into effect this new year. Hurry up to sign up tho, you must register before Dec. 1st. Otherwise you must wait until the next list is created in april!

cheers!

http://nocall.wisconsin.gov/

Not Effective until Jan 1