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Then, why not go for the Batmobile?

(Sorry, couldn't resist :)
In reference to: In The Beginning Was The Command Line

          -dZ.

Mod parent up! And add Haiku and Zeta to the list. Or maybe Palm would be willing to license BeOS R5.

Does anyone suppose yellowTAB's Zeta will support the new Macs?

Triple Booting fun!

I installed Zeta (http://www.yellowtab.com/ the project that continues the old BeOS, and it has to be the simplest install I've ever done. After the initial prompts about language, regional settings and partition location, I didn't have to touch the installer again until the very end when it asks me if I want to install the boot loader. This is much preferable to Windows where it asks you the regional settings questions halfway through the install, thereby interrupting the process.

After the install, the PC restarts and after the quickest OS load I think I've ever seen, I'm up and running. My biggest complaint: there's no support for the i845 onboard video. I was surprised since it's such a popular chipset, but at least Zeta immediately pops up a message telling you its running in software mode and providing a very helpful "more information" link. But, that brings me to the next point I want to make: new hardware installation was a breeze. I slapped in an old TNT2 or Geforce or something (I honestly don't remember what it is, other than Nvidia), turned the PC on, and was using the new hardware immediately after the OS boot. There was none of the usual "Windows has found new hardware! What should Windows do now!?" type stuff. It. Just. Worked.

The downside from a newbie perspective: the NIC is disabled by default. Also, after I enabled the NIC, I never could get it to behave properly with DHCP. I had the same issue with my 3Com works-in-every-OS-since-Windows-95 10/100 card. So, I did have to configure my NIC manually, but at least their tool for this is much better than using ifconfig.

All in all, aside from the NIC configuration, I would have to claim that installing Zeta was much, much easier than any other OS I've installed. It's been a while since I've used BeOS, but IIRC installing software was extremely easy on it as well, although the base install comes with most everything a new computer user would need. Too bad there's not a native OpenOffice port, and the OS comes with Abiword instead. But, since Zeta does come with the GCC tools, I plan to find out how well OpenOffice compiles on the OS.

Don't forget about BeOS. AFAIK it'll run on a Pentium with 16 MB of RAM although Firefox probably wouldn't work. On slightly better hardware you can even watch fullscreen XviD video. The best thing is that BeOS's GUI is freakishly fast. On my machine (3 GHz P4) it's at least twice as fast as Linux or Windows, so I'd bet the difference would be even more apparent on older machines.

If you want a modern BeOS, go buy Zeta. Yes, it's closed source, but they *have* the BeOS sources. But their product and keep BeOS alive, or get a lot of friends to have a whip-round & buy YellowTab itself instead!

If you want a modern BeOS, go buy Zeta. Yes, it's closed source, but they *have* the BeOS sources. But their product and keep BeOS alive, or get a lot of friends to have a whip-round & buy YellowTab itself instead!

Sorry for interrupting your scheduled broadcast . . . we will return
to your regular program shortly.

The source code for Q3Arena has just been released under GPL. I'm
willilng to be part of the team looking into porting this to
BeOS/Haiku/Zeta (well, I've only got Zeta installed, but
nevertheless), since I've got some experience with OpenGL. Anyone who
*seriously* wants to participate in getting this beast building under
the BeOS family (sorry, no offers to beta test yet), drop me a private
line and I'll see about setting up a freelists mailing list for this
project. We need to give Rudolf something other than Q2 to test his
drivers with, since running the same old timedemo must be driving him
nuts.

I can be reached at:
solaja FUNNY_MONKEY_SIGN gmail FULLSTOP com

We now return you to your scheduled program...

They sure don't shout it from the rooftops, but this support request thread makes it sound like the BONE version of an app should be used in Zeta. There are other references to be found, too.

From the looks of their web page, they're quite aware of this and are marketing it as such. To quote from the yellowTAB "Company" web page :

yellowTAB doesn't intend to compete with Microsoft but offers an alternative for those wanting to run a second operating system.

I definitely agree that if they want to become anything other than a niche player, they have some serious work to do. Really, though, I think that's not the goal- if Be, Inc. and NeXT, Inc. couldn't take on Microsoft, and Apple's just starting to claw their way back to the market share they once had... maybe that's not the fight yellowTAB is looking to take on, at least not this decade.

Really, though, there's nothing wrong with being a _successful_ niche player. Aside from the fact that you're going to remain a fairly small company, of course.

ed2k://|file|Zeta%20Deluxe%20Edition%20Neo%20Multi lingual-Lcdiso.bin|821642976|6E846FE341358CE0077EF 6A468A73E18|/
ed2k://|file|Zeta.Deluxe.Edition.Ne o.MULTILINGUAL- LCDiSO.cue|173|5175F3B9D6FEDE4D0537EE4EA9963EDB|/
ed2k://|file|Zeta.Deluxe.Edition.Neo.MULTILINGUAL - LCDiSO.nfo|11224|D1E4C8C015F29CD170CC93F4DBFF821C| /

Posting them in html fucks up the links. These are for Zeta Neo Deluxe edition. This is an interim release between the beta and final version. Here is the press release. I haven't seen 1.0 anywhere, yet. I suppose it could be on some obscure torrent site, but I haven't seen it. I haven't tested this yet, so I don't know how stable it is or what apps it comes with.

Hmmm, after just checking again right now, I found something claiming to be Zeta 1.0.

ed2k://|file|%20ZETA%201.0%20Deluxe%20Edition.is o| 867840000|3C76575A50C142AA24255E0759B6ACF8|/

It's 820+ MB (I think it is sold on a DVD). I'm starting to download it now...

btw, I thought that BeOS was sold to Palm. How come it's Zeta now?

>ZETA is ideal for use with a digital camera: just connect the camera to get started.
http://www.yellowtab.com/products/graphics/

lol that sounds like almost all cameras are supported. look:
http://www.yellowtab.com/support/hardware/list.php ?category=45

ok there is something called mass-storage, but the hardware support sucks anyway.

>ZETA is ideal for use with a digital camera: just connect the camera to get started.
http://www.yellowtab.com/products/graphics/

lol that sounds like almost all cameras are supported. look:
http://www.yellowtab.com/support/hardware/list.php ?category=45

ok there is something called mass-storage, but the hardware support sucks anyway.

They appear to be wanting to open source it eventually, but can't due to using the original BeOS code - which they wish to eventually replace and open source (as stated at: http://www.yellowtab.com/support/faqs/show.php?id= 5)

Although this doesn't actually show willingness to Open Source it.

Will be apps.

There is a limited application set, the development of which is rather difficult in nature. If you read their forums, many of the users that have supported Zeta during its slow development binter and banter back and forth about what they want, and what they are getting.

Linux users get the same way, perhaps not as vehemont as Zeta followers do, but they do.

The problem is going to be finding developers that are willing to develop in that envoirnment. I believe that C++ is the only language for which you can use to develop in Zeta. The lack of language variety is going to make getting developers difficult, and a rather centric group of developers will build the OS, giving it a rathe r lop-sided or narrow build.

At the current time however, their forums are being /.'ed -- http://www.yellowtab.com/phorum/ .

It looks nice, it may work beautifully, but the limited application set sort of deters me from wanting to use it.

There were reports that the source code [...] was leaked onto the Internet at one time. Not that I'm suggesting that they used such source code,

Yes, you are, in a so-far successful attempt to rack up positive moderations from people who can't be bothered to read yellowTAB's statement.

but their lack of a clear statement has lead to much doubt as to the legality of their software

Their very clear statement, linked above, says:

I heard that ZETA is using some illegal code. Is this true?
No. yellowTAB does not use illegal or leaked software.

"lack of a clear statement" leading to "much doubt as to the legality of their software"? Go back under your bridge.

(If I'm feeding the troll a little snack, it's the gullible moderators who've served it a full-course meal of positive moderations.)

While they would never comment on it

If this thing is actually based on BeOS then by looking at the support for Xircom PCMCIA cards I'd say it was an early version 5.0 source:

PCMCIA Communication Cards

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see a single 32-bit CardBus adapater in there.

go zeta!

me work good!

The supported hardware list seems to indicate that at least one common laptop maker may not be supported very well (supported inspiron 3200, partially supported LS L400, no other details). Hopefully as they get bigger, they'll be able to devote time and resources needed to get running on some of the newer laptops coming out ...

After all these years of computer development, there is only one commercial PC operating system around (please note the word 'commercial').

Almost. I've just read that YellowTab (server is down ATM) has just sent their Zeta OS (formerly known as Be OS) to the press and that retailers will receive the packages in about two weeks... so there is a competitor. But I wouldn't hold my breath until it can rival Windows in number of copies sold ;-)

And then there's eComStation, formerly known as OS/2, the "would have been better if marketing would have done a better job" brother of WinNT.

You're talking about Be Inc.

IMHO, they really got a lot of the engineering right with BeOS that other operating systems (Windows, MacOS) are getting to only now. The doom of Be wasn't just that the internet appliance thing was a distraction, but also that BeOS was either too early, because its features weren't needed yet, or too late, because the OS wars had already concluded.

For those of you that would like a history lesson, Palm ended up buying Be for around $11M and then, on behalf of Be, suing Microsoft and getting around a $22M settlement a few years later.

Where's BeOS today? Here: http://yellowtab.com/

R.I.P.

All of these have achieved some commercial success and are popular, well supported, operating systems. Something tells me you need to stop running Windows and come out into the real world.

Someone speaks the truth! Now, can we get on with life? And if you want to make a serious dent in MS Windows, let's develop a better OS targeted directly for the desktop user. That is if someone hasn't beaten us too it.

One thing I love about open source operating systems...

Too bad Zeta isn't open source.

Check out the groovy help desk. Nico- and Twiggy-bots are lounging on orange and pink beanbag chairs off to the right.

*brrrrrring*
dude: "Dude! so what's up with your operating system?"
caller: "I don't think I like it very much."
dude: "Duuuuude."

Directly from yellowTAB
Hardware requirements

Minimal Requirements:
* Pentium 200MHz (or Cyrix, Athlon, Via...)
* 32 MB RAM
* 600 MB Hard Disk Space
* 8 MB Video Memory
* bootable CD-ROM Drive
* Mouse, Keyboard, 14" Color Monitor

Recommended Hardware:

* Intel Pentium III 1 GHz (Celeron, AMD Athlon Duron/XP)
* 256 MB RAM
* 4 GB Hard Disk Space
* 32 MB Video Memory
* Soundcard
* CD/DVD Drive
* Mouse, Keyboard, 17" Color Monitor
Check our hardware compatability list to see if Zeta will run on your machine.

Directly from yellowTAB
Hardware requirements

Minimal Requirements:
* Pentium 200MHz (or Cyrix, Athlon, Via...)
* 32 MB RAM
* 600 MB Hard Disk Space
* 8 MB Video Memory
* bootable CD-ROM Drive
* Mouse, Keyboard, 14" Color Monitor

Recommended Hardware:

* Intel Pentium III 1 GHz (Celeron, AMD Athlon Duron/XP)
* 256 MB RAM
* 4 GB Hard Disk Space
* 32 MB Video Memory
* Soundcard
* CD/DVD Drive
* Mouse, Keyboard, 17" Color Monitor
Check our hardware compatability list to see if Zeta will run on your machine.

In short, I think we'll see a BeOS come-back long before an Amiga come-back.

Well this looks at least as nice as Amiga OS4, has far more software available for it (the GoBe Productive suite runs fine for instance), and runs on standard PC Hardware. So yes, the BeOS come-back is already ahead of the Amiga come-back.

Jedidiah.

That pulling the power plug from the wall trick was one of the things the BeOS developers would do at conferences and demos to demonstrate the robustness of the BFS journaled filesystem created by Dominic Giampaolo, who now works at Apple. It was one of the first true journaled filesystems, certainly the first available in a desktop operating system. They would unplug the machine in the middle of heavy read-write activity and show how it came right back up just as fast as when it booted clean. This was around 8 years ago, I believe, so it was a pretty big deal. A few years later Linux finally got ReiserFS, Ext3, XFS and a couple other journaling filesystems. MacOS X got journaling in version 10.2.3, if I remember right. Supposedly NTFS has been journaled for a while now, but I don't know the details on that.

The rest of the computing world has finally almost caught up to long-dead BeOS in terms of robustness and speed. I still haven't seen anything boot nearly as fast as BeOS though. If your needs are simple it's still a bitchin' OS. The original BeOS is dead but you can still find the Free BeOS 5 Personal Edition download if you look around, or you can buy an updated commercial version from these guys who bought the IP from Be, Inc. before they folded up shop. The free version was kind of cool, it was a 45MB download that expanded into a 500MB drive "image" and let you boot up BeOS from Windows. Pretty neat way to test drive a new operating system. Too bad it never stood a chance in the market against uno-hoo.

Here's a link to that free version.
Scroll down a bit for the "Windows" version. Be aware that it probably won't run on newer computers with anything more advanced than a P-III. The patches for newer processors have been integrated into the commercial version, I'm sure.

Ah, BeOS, we hardly knew ye.

OK, so what if, say, BeOS was ported to x86? And updated? And was later going to be available as open source software? Any interest?

Finally!

I've been severely missing an Os that excells in lack of support, lack of compatibility and an unsurpassed vapor-are factor.

Looks like you haven't been using BeOS or Zeta.

And it makes sense. Aesthetically, Mac would appeal to a person with certain priorities. Where Windows is clunky (and sometimes powerful) Mac is sleek and somewhat efficient. Anyone whos ever seen an interview with Steve Jobs knows what kind of person the Mac has been designed for. The PC was for everybody else.

Personally I'd like to have my cake and eat it too, but where Linux adds power its still trades consistency of design. Next I guess I'll be trying out YellowTab (BeOs varient) on my test machine. KDE is creepying consistently towards the level of configurability and consistency I'd like to see (but its still quite a ways from that goal).

There are workarounds for installing Be's final v5.0.3 on later AMD systems, but I gave up trying when the DE installed so easily. One of these days I'll figure it out....

Zeta installed fine on the same box (sep partition), but I am having stability issues. There are supposedly 3 service packs since my version RC1, but I haven't been able to log in to download them.

actually be threw yellowtab and "official bone" right before palm bought them. A little zeta history.

<snippet>
Before Be, Inc. sold its assets to Palm, Inc., we managed to close a deal allowing us to distribute the PE version and had started negotiations over the future of the Pro version. Koch Media was ready to reissue the copies of the Pro Version that they hadn't managed to resell, to make it a part of a new distribution first called BeOS NG (New Generation), now renamed to "Zeta".
</snippet>

I do love my dusty BeBox too!!! I miss watching the dual LED towers pulse as it easily played multiple looping videos, played a music file, and the many other tricks that it did simultaneously. I'm hoping to get yellowtab.com's Zeta installed on my SuperMicro X5DAE with dual XEON 2.2GHz soon.

and since Be lives on, it will probably be awhile before netcraft confirms it. At least Yellowtab, is releasing something whereas amiga hasn't released anything tangible (although they say they have) since os v4.

The downside would be that not 'everyone' can use a PC, the way they can today, since MS Windows is by far the most newbie-friendly operating system availible for PC.

Did you get around to playing the BeOS? Now that was a user friendly operating system, and it was available for PC. Easily comparable in ease of use to Macintosh, and realistically better than Windows. Of course, it never had quite the same level of hardware support and applications available to compare to Windows - but then if there wasn't any Windows, all of a sudden that wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately (mostly due to aggressive leveraging of monopoly upon OEMs forcing manufacturers to never provide PCs with BeOS preinstalled) BeOS is now effectively dead. There are some efforts to resurrect it, but if you actually want to give the real thing a go, some interesting licensing games ended up with YellowTab managing to sell what amounts to BeOS 6 as Zeta. Check it out, it is actually very impressive.

Jedidiah.

Yellow Tab has a version of BeOS called "Zeta".

I think the story is that they could licence everything but the name. There's an awesome preview up on Zeta Journal.

And there are also the two open clones in the works: Blue-Eyed OS (by building BeOS-workalike bits on top of Linux) and OpenBeOS (a from-the-ground-up reimplementation of BeOS)..

One word: BeOS.

Yellow Tab Faq

> 1) Didn't Palm buy BeOS?

Yes, don't expect to see Palm-Be For Desktops thou. Palm bought Be for the excellent engineers the code was a by product. Bits might make it into PalmX.

> 2) Was BeOS closed source or was it open sourced?

BeOS is closed source. However a few other versions have no appeared tring to remake BeOS.
At lest two closed source (Max, and YellowTAB)
At lest two open source, OpenBeOS, based on a brand spanky new kernal, and redeveloped from scrach. And BlueEyedOS, based on Linux.

> 3) Who owns the rights to BeOS PE?

Palm, but before Palm bought Be, Be did a deal with Max to alow it to redistrube it, and did a deal with YellowTAB to not only redistrubute it, but also modified versions of Dano (the next version of offical Be Inc BeOS).

> 4) Who develops these new drivers and the kernel???

Max, YellowTAB (but only for there distributions) and normal developers for gerneric R5 drivers.
Then Linux devs for BlueEyedOS
and OpenBeOS Developers for OBOS.

> 6) What about openbeos? Where do they fit into the BeOS picture??

It will take some time before OBEOS gets a usable version, so the Max & YellowTAB are here to fill the gap untill OBEOS takes off. I'm sure I've seen posts by both YellowTAB and the MAX people that they would like to be come OBEOS distrubuters when this happens.

Then Be, Palm, or Yellowtab (the developers of Zeta, which is essentially BeOS 6) can sue them if they want to. I don't see that happening and I doubt it will.

Those organizations can speak for themselves and don't need your help.

Slashdot is a news site by the way, not a BSA site.

BeOS is spectacular for your old boxes laying around if you want to try something new. It books on my AMD/300 with 64 MB of RAM in under 15 seconds.

YellowTAB is creating the next incarnation of BeOS code named Zeta, which essentially R6. It should upgrade driver support for the newest hardware releases. Unfortunately a free edition looks doubtful.

Apple did some damage too, by not releasing the specs needed to run on G3 PowerMacs so Be had to leave the PowerMac market and focus on the WINTEL market.

The BeBox was a glorious invention, the Geekport is a great expansion port.

The main problem is where are the apps? Microsoft donimated the market so much that few developers even considered developing for BeOS. Most games are still developed for Windows, so the GameHeads need their box to run Windows.

Another problem was driver support, much like OS/2 driver support, most hardware makers didn't want to support it. So you had to pick your hardware carefully.

Be.com is for sale, and beincorporated.com no longer sells BeOS. Palm bought it.

OpenBeOS is in the works to make an Open Sourced BeOS.

YellowTab has Zeta, based on BeOS which can still be bought.

BeOS 5 Personal Edition is still available as a download from BeBits

• 'spreadsheet'
  
  YellowTab has a screenshot showing they are improving the AbiWord office package here. There is a donation page to help port OpenOffice to BeOS. Last but not least, GoBe at one time announced they would port GP 3.0 to BeOS, providing they had enough sales of the windows side. Sadly, this did not work out as intended. That's another topic for discussion. ;)
• 'instant messaging'
  
  The venerable and solid repository of BeOS applications' BeBits has these entries for instant messaging applications:
  
  • msn
  • icq
  • aol
  
  There are more, but I chose to show three examples of chat protocals.
  
• 'surf the web'
  
  Both Mozilla and FireBird have been ported to BeOS for quite some time now. In fact, just 2 days ago there was a new build directly from the cvs server for BeOS of Mozilla. I believe the current direction is towards FireBird, since it's just the browser, but that's a good thing. ;) I won't mention Opera, as the jury is out until Zeta comes out
• '3D Games'
  
  You've got that one, I will admit. but it's not so hot either on any OS other than Microsoft's, so it's a poor example for debate.

• 'spreadsheet'
  
  YellowTab has a screenshot showing they are improving the AbiWord office package here. There is a donation page to help port OpenOffice to BeOS. Last but not least, GoBe at one time announced they would port GP 3.0 to BeOS, providing they had enough sales of the windows side. Sadly, this did not work out as intended. That's another topic for discussion. ;)
• 'instant messaging'
  
  The venerable and solid repository of BeOS applications' BeBits has these entries for instant messaging applications:
  
  • msn
  • icq
  • aol
  
  There are more, but I chose to show three examples of chat protocals.
  
• 'surf the web'
  
  Both Mozilla and FireBird have been ported to BeOS for quite some time now. In fact, just 2 days ago there was a new build directly from the cvs server for BeOS of Mozilla. I believe the current direction is towards FireBird, since it's just the browser, but that's a good thing. ;) I won't mention Opera, as the jury is out until Zeta comes out
• '3D Games'
  
  You've got that one, I will admit. but it's not so hot either on any OS other than Microsoft's, so it's a poor example for debate.

Take a gander at what's coming down the road:

OpenBeOS

and

Zeta

All it takes is continual development, just like with linux, and there -will- be a future for anyone who fell in love with BeOS in the first place.

It's not so much the OS itself, but as to what it represents. The Be Way, the ideals and concepts it has offered up, among it's ease of use and elegant design choices.

I am very saddened to see such a poor outcome for this legal case. However, I see this as another nail in the coffin for Microsoft. Their day is coming, and I will be happy to show people seeking alternatives just how nice a company Microsoft is by adding this outcome to the (already) growing lists of grievances against the company from Redmond.

If you feel up to the challenge of programming for a splendidly thought out API, please visit the OpenBeOS website and offer your assistance. Even if it's just one small application, one line of code, or just a diversion from what you normally do, it will help.

We can make something if we all help each other. Isn't that a nice thought?

yellowtab.com.