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The End of PalmOS?

SLT writes "According to Engadget, PalmSource was purchased by Access, a Japanese cell phone software company known for their NetFront browser. What does this mean for the future of Palm?" More coverage at LinuxDevices and Reuters. From the Reuters article: "Japanese software developer Access Co. said on Friday it would make U.S. software developer PalmSource Inc. wholly owned in a 34.4 billion yen ($311.3 million) cash deal to strengthen its development of software for handheld devices. Access will pay cash to shareholders of PalmSource, which will be later absorbed by Access' U.S. unit Apollo Merger Sub Inc., Access said in a statement."

178 comments

  1. Witty 3com by stecoop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most consumers thought 3Com was stupid for spinning off such a profitable business. What I recall is that it sold for 300 times earnings and a bunch of investing consultants warned of such a pricey model for such a small niche product. End result is usually the same with PE ratio being to high. The OS isn't really that important, they should make it free to run anywhere and try selling the hardware; yeah exactly opposite of what has been said by some big OS makers.

    1. Re:Witty 3com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Without Palm, the handheld-market would be much better off.

      Compare a Palm to a Sharp Zaurus, and you will be disgusted to even touch the Palm again.

    2. Re:Witty 3com by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      I have.

      I prefer the Palm. Just because you can SSH into your Zaurus doesn't mean that it's good.

      The hardware platform is certainly interesting, and the fact that it runs Linux is cool, but Linux DEFINITELY isn't ready for the PDA yet.

      Palm OS was designed for a PDA. Linux wasn't. Therefore, Linux needs a LOT of work to scale to that specific use, and do it well.

      Yes, Palm OS has it's limitations that Linux doesn't have. However, many of those limitations have either been removed in Palm OS 5.4, or will be removed in Palm OS 6.

    3. Re:Witty 3com by VJ42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've got a Palm, I think PalmOS is great, it's got a clean and simple GUI that my 4 yr old cousin understands, and there are milions of freeware applications out there that run on it, everything from a colouring in program(for said cousin) to various media players that allow me to use my Palm as an mp3 player.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    4. Re:Witty 3com by IANAAC · · Score: 0
      The hardware platform is certainly interesting, and the fact that it runs Linux is cool, but Linux DEFINITELY isn't ready for the PDA yet.

      That would be your opinion.

      Maybe you should take a look at what is selling in Asia, not just for the PDA market but for the smartphone market.

      Linux has been ready for the PDA for quite a while.

    5. Re:Witty 3com by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a Zaurus. It spends most of its time sat in its 'shoe' and has been relegated really to an MP3 player. The Zaurus' feature is also its curse. It runs Linux and I've yet to find Linux software that is actually finished. I should not have to use a shell to use bluetooth.

    6. Re:Witty 3com by kisrael · · Score: 1

      I haven't used any Zaurus or Linux-derived PDA so I can't say, but I remember it took Microsoft YEARS to cope with the issue of scaling a "real" OS and UI down rather than building something small from the ground up, ala Palm.

      (Of course, Linux isn't as tied to One UI in the way Windows is, which allows for more freedom, but less leverage as well)

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    7. Re:Witty 3com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      That would be your opinion.

      See here at point two. Thank you.

    8. Re:Witty 3com by Eric+Smith · · Score: 2, Informative
      Compare a Palm to a Sharp Zaurus, and you will be disgusted to even touch the Palm again.
      I have a Zaurus and several Palms. As a Linux user/programmer, I do have a lot of fun with the Zaurus. But the usability of the Zaurus as a PDA is terrible, mostly because Qtopia is incredibly buggy and the UI is poorly designed.

      PalmOS is not as powerful, but it is much more robust and has a much better UI.

    9. Re:Witty 3com by bevenhall · · Score: 1

      WGASA.

  2. Th End of PalmOS? by Karma_fucker_sucker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hardly. It'll just be in more devices. And the Palm handheld will just morf. OTOH, I think we may see $20 organizers or cheaper given away with other products. Kind of the way MP3 players are being given away these days.

    --
    Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
    1. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      I sure hope Access can make PalmOS worthwhile to use again. A few years ago, Palm was king, but pocket pc's have adopted everything palms have done and made them better. I for one am skeptical of their abilities, however, Netfront still reports itself as Netscape 4 to webpages.

    2. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by hcdejong · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If they're going to focus development on PalmOS-for-mobile-phones, they may very well end up with an OS that isn't well-suited for palmtops.

      No more HWR, for example, and no user-accessible expansion (because the phone company will insist you move all data in and out of the device via their network instead of USB/a memory stick, so they can keep on making you pay through the nose).

    3. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by tzanger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is there a PPC device that lasts longer than about 8hrs on battery? My Tungsten E works a full week and a half with daily use (look at what's to do, look up contact numbers, scribble a note kind of work).

      That's why I'm not leaving the platform. It's easy to work with, it works very well and the battery life is pretty damn good.

    4. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Hast · · Score: 1

      I think that for many things the basic PalmOS is good at has now been replaced with mobile phones. And I don't mean smart phones but normal feature phones.

      My phone handles contact and appointments. For notes I can use dictaphone or type in short messages with T9.

      The battery time isn't as good if I want to use it to phone with as well. OTOH I have chargers available at most places so I seldom have a problem of running out of battery.

      Oh, and my phone (SonyEricsson T630) is about a quarter of the size of a Palm device.

    5. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by BewireNomali · · Score: 1, Informative

      I go several days with my IPAQ when the wireless and bluetooth functions are turned off.

      my tungsten c was a similar miser when it came to power consumption, but the IPAQ has greater overall functionality.

      --
      un burrito me trampeó.
    6. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Monkelectric · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Do you own a palm device?

      I have had a palm since the *ORIGINAL* US Robotics Pilot 1000. Palm OS has outlived its usefullness. My current device is a treo 650, which I *LOVE* except that it locks up CONSTANTLY. And all the little OS mod programs you have to run to actually make the thing usefull, conflict with each other and act weird.

      Second of all, the programming model is HORRIBLE. Developers are still writing code for the dragonball processor and expected to write "Armlets" which are little snipets of code that run directly on the ARM processor bypassing the 68k emulation stuff.

      Palm OS needs to die and be replaced by an OS with memory protection and a fairly customizable OS. Palm OS was designed to run on 8mhz processors, and it did that quite nicely, but its time has ocme and gone.

      The only reason palm hasn't died completely is that the windows devices aren't any better (I've owned a few of those as well).

      We're in the home stretch in the year 2005 here, I don't have my flying car, i don't have my rocket backpack, and my robot maid has gone missing. But I think its not too much to ask for a PDA that doesn't eat shit all the time and has a usable interface.

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    7. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      (All of this posted by a user of a Sony PEG-SJ22 with Palm OS 4.1 and a Dragonball...)

      I agree that the stuff with Palm OS 5's architecture is Bad(tm).

      However, at least the "decent OS" is coming soon - Palm OS 6 has been with device manufacturers for a while, and is just waiting on someone to put it in a device.

      It appears to use a vastly improved Palm OS interface, on (essentially) a BeOS kernel. Of course, there'll still be the Palm OS 5 emulation, and within that, the Dragonball emulation, but touching any of that will be HIGHLY discouraged on Palm OS 6, unless you're targetting Palm OS 5. (which, unfortunately, will be a good idea - POS6 appears to be targetted towards high-end devices)

    8. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by afabbro · · Score: 1

      I have a Treo 650 and work with many other people who do as well. No one complains about lock-ups. All of us are quite happy. I think your experience is atypical, based on what I've experienced and what I've seen...of course, if you're running lots of "little OS mod programs", that might be the cause.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    9. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Tx · · Score: 1

      I for one am skeptical of their abilities, however, Netfront still reports itself as Netscape 4 to webpages.

      No it doesn't, NetFront's default user-agent string is "Mozilla/4.08 (PDA; Windows CE/1.0.0) NetFront/3.1". If the "Mozilla/4.08" bit is confusing you, look at what IE6 gives - yes, is starts with "Mozilla/4.0" too. Moreover it has a user agent selector in the options, so you can set it up to report as whatever browser you want.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    10. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      It's not like anybody was making palmtops or PDAs with the latest stuff PalmSource was writing anyway. It's been years, and there are still zero PalmOS 6 devices available. Hell, rumor has been that Palm is more likely to switch to Windows than Cobalt. Sony isn't making Palm devices anymore, Tapwave went bankrupt... Who are PalmSource's customers?

      It seems this changes nothing.

    11. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      Then I was mistaken. I just know a webpage I went to claimed "Netscape 4 doesn't work, please upgrade."

    12. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      Then there are those of us who like having a file browser.

    13. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Monkelectric · · Score: 1

      Well, I would agree os mods are bad, but in this case I was having lockups before them. THe program that gives me the most trouble is VeriChat. I would accept an occasional lockup in verichat if it didnt hose the entire phone as well. A lockup where you have to reset your pda is one thing. A lockup which causes you not to get phone calls anymore, is VERY bad (specially since I have it in my pocket and don't know it locked up).

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    14. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, so what's wrong with the Pande Group??? Nothing on your blog...

    15. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Trillan · · Score: 1

      Don't hold your breath for Palm OS 6.

    16. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by Trillan · · Score: 1

      Here's your three steps to happiness, then.

      If a program crashes your Palm:
      1. Don't use it.
      2. In fact, delete it from your Palm so that it has no opportunity to crash durring notifications or other launch codes.
      3. Optionally, bitch out the company that made the software for charging you for something that doesn't work.
      4. There is no step 4, except being happy that regaining a useful Palm was that simple.

    17. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Ah, I really do need to put an entry in, don't I?

      I guess I'll dredge up my posts from the Tech Report forums...

    18. Re:Th End of PalmOS? by KDan · · Score: 1

      Actually it seems that the mobile phone companies are at last moving away from this. I'm speaking specifically of Sony Ericsson. Their latest W800 is rocking in terms of that type of interoperability. It uses a memory stick, you can copy files directly on-off that, they finally realised that "can only use special DRM'ed mp3s as a ringtone" is NOT a feature any user wants, so you can use whatever you want as your ringtone.

      If they keep going in this direction (and, alongside with it, keep having a good phone with rock-solid featureS) I'll keep buying Sony Ericsson...

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
  3. Don't they own Be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    So maybe they'll release the BeOS source code! Probably just wishful thinking..

    1. Re:Don't they own Be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now BeOS gets to be even more like Amiga; it's IP passed from one company to another, each more obscure and poorly funded than the last, each utterly failing to do anything with the assests they've secured for outrageous amounts. They've got two different companies claiming ownership of the OS, too!

      It's all too earily familiar.

  4. Treo 670 / asian language devices? by bre_dnd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's a very puzzling development for me.

    There's been speculation that the Treo 670 will not be running PalmOS anymore -- how does that fit in with this?

    There are a few Korean, Japanese and Chinese producers of PalmOS devices, especially smartphones. The pen interface is more suitable for iconographic languages so it would make sense to keep a presence there. Where will this go from here?

    1. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been saying for some time that I believed the PPC on treo was a complete rumor. But I have to say in light of this change it's quite possible it will now happen.

    2. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Great, now Microsoft will completely take over the PDA market, dooming any possibility of anyone making a PDA that will interface properly with my Mac.

    3. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by minus_273 · · Score: 1

      last i checked, korean used an alphabet and rarely used Chinese characters. I dont think it is as prominent as Kanji is in Japanese.

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    4. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by faedle · · Score: 1

      Funny. I had an iPaq that interfaced just fine with my Mac.

      "Third Party Software."

    5. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Korean only uses Chinese historically, they phased it out maybe 50 years ago. Anyway here in China (and in Japan too from what I understand) plenty of people use roman-character keypads or keyboards to enter chinese-language data on their cell phones and organizers, it's very common, anyway PIMs don't recognize characters (or at least, mine doesn't).

    6. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Missing Sync is easily the worst application on my Powerbook.

      I use a Treo 650, and Missing Sync provides daily excitement and drama. I don't want excitement and drama, ever.

      What the hell is an error 16394? Their support folks sure don't know...

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by yogkarma · · Score: 1

      death gives new birth. Before death one should donate few organs, we all call it open source. Yogi :)

    8. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1
      last i checked, korean used an alphabet and rarely used Chinese characters. I dont think it is as prominent as Kanji is in Japanese.

      The Korean phonetic alphabet is "hangul." Korean ideographic writing is "hanja."

      Hanja is not, by any means, "rarely used" unless you would say that capital letters and punctuation in English are "rarely used."

      In South Korea, Hanja is found in signs, newspapers, and other common public venues. It is quite often used for specialized vocabularies (martial arts is one I can personally vouch for, but there certainly are others.) Hanja is used for personal names as well.

      In North Korea, as one might expect from a dictatorship, a hard line has been drawn and the citizens are not allowed to use hanja; hangul is "it." However, North Korea is not definitive here — South Korea has far more interaction with the world, for one thing, and is unlikely to ever be as hardline about this as North Korea has been. They value their history, for one thing. They educate better, for another.

      There is no way, at this point in time, one could do without hanja and make do with hangul in South Korea unless one wanted to be regarded as an illiterate. I'm talking about current use; if you want to consider historical use, then it just gets deeper; the vocabulary gets broader, the usage gets more involved.

      While hanja characters, in many cases, mean the same thing (or similar) to what they mean when they are used in other asian languages (Japanese, Chinese, etc. — the character for "rice" means "rice" in all three languages), the pronunciation of the character is almost always "other." Makes it a little easier to navigate asian menus, though. "Point and Pick." ;-)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    9. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woo. Don't excuse. Nobody said Korean language is inferior yet.
        Original poster just stated Korean used Chinese language 50 years ago
      until they made up something different.

        Let me tell you that saying "Hangul is totally different from North
      Korean's one" is a propaganda bullsh*t South Korean did long long time ago.
        And look at the dictionary or professional journals in South Korea, they often
      face the situations that they CANNOT write down things without footnoting
      Chinese letters.

    10. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by MrYotsuya · · Score: 1

      Hanja is not, by any means, "rarely used" unless you would say that capital letters and punctuation in English are "rarely used."

      You're new to Slashdot, aren't you?

    11. Re:Treo 670 / asian language devices? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Korean is not an iconographic language (unless you absolutely want it to be). Writing Japanese, is mostly not a problem either, at least on phones the simple keypad is already enough. Chinese, I don't know about.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  5. According to the Trolls by packeteer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Netcraft confirms it... PalmOS is dead.

    --
    unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    1. Re:According to the Trolls by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 4, Interesting
    2. Re:According to the Trolls by se7en11 · · Score: 1
      I've been looking for something like this for a while! This is a sweet idea. sourceforge didn't have the files however.

      Where can one download this? - Thanks!

  6. Who is Access? by ReformedExCon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, if you've ever used cHTML, they are the ones who came up with it. Back in the early days of featurephones, NTT Docomo sent out a call for browser software, and Access was the only game in Tokyotown. Unfortunately, they didn't really support all of HTML, only a subset. But that subset was handled well and allowed the browser to display pages on the small cellphone screen without forcing the user to scroll horizontally.

    So Access, riding Docomo's coattails, became the premier web browser company for cellphones in Japan. It's like how Gary Kildall was approached by IBM to sell his CP/M system, only in this case Access was able to capitalize on their position instead of losing out to a second-rate compiler company.

    Now with PalmSource in their possession, they are strategically aligned to provide browser software, mail software, scheduling software, and a host of other useful PDA-like features in their cellphone software suite. Add to that that with greater cellphone power is bound to come greater demand for more feature-filled "smartphones" and they're in a great place with a ready-for-delivery PDA suite.

    --
    Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
    1. Re:Who is Access? by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Access have later struggled to catch up with the likes of Opera in actually supporting normal web pages. Creating a subset of the internet on the internet itself seems silly, and indeed, it turned out that people wanted to access real sites, not just cHTML or WAP sites.

      I guess they decided to give up fighting with outdated technology against Opera, and instead went to diversify their software offerings to survive the onslaught of better mobile browsers.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  7. Why "The End of PalmOS"? by anno1602 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Okay, so PalmSource, was acquired by Access, a company that is roughly in the same market as PalmSource (mobile devices) while not doing the same thing (OS vs. browser). It sounds like PalmSource would complement Access' offerings nicely, and actually, that is what Access is stating as its reason for the acquisition: PalmSource's OS and linux expertise. How do you get from there to the statement that Access will scrap PalmOS?

    1. Re:Why "The End of PalmOS"? by FidelCatsro · · Score: 4, Informative

      I believe the logic is as follows.
      1: find a piece of news
      2: Start thinking piece of news is perhaps not that interesting
      3: Put sensationalist spin on it in an effort to drive up readership
      4: reap the rewards of bad journalism

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  8. How does this kill PalmOS? by amichalo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Um, what kind of company would spend $311 million to buy PalmOS, then STOP SELLING THE TECHNOLOGY? Sure, they may eventually integrate the parts of PalmOS they like into "Access OS" or whatever they sell, but they are certainly not going to just exit the market that PalmOS serves.

    When Maytag bought Whirlpool last month, it didn't mean they were ditching their product line. /. can be so reactionary.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    1. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Wordsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What kind of a company would spend millions on BeOs, and then stop selling the technology?

    2. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      I know what this means. It's proof that Google has done some evil and is the final stepping stone for Linux on the Desktop.

      The editors should be more careful.

      Mod me troll, but I know you're sick of it all too.

    3. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by jpostel · · Score: 1

      Exactly my thought. We thought BeOS would live on in smartphones, but it's ghost languishes as Cobalt.

      --
      Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
    4. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, just to clarify for posterity Whirlpool is trying to buy Maytag (not the other way around) and the merger has not yet been completed.

    5. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by port3389 · · Score: 1

      Palm bought BeOS and then stopped selling it.

    6. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      BeOS was bought for chump change, Silicon Valley-wise. $11M, IIRC, after how many hundreds of millions were invested in it? Golden parachute for Gasse, and that's about it.

    7. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      One that subsequently gets bought out itself?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by egghat · · Score: 1

      Normally none. But BeOS had a miniscule market share in a market Palm didn't have the slightest interest in (OS for PCs). So they ditched it, but used the developers and technology from Be to built a small multimedia capable OS for handheld devices (Ok, they failed miserably (at least at selling), but at the time the decision wasn't completely brain damaged).

      I doubt that access will be that stupid and guess they will learn from the mistakes PalmSource made. They will continue to make Palm an application environment (tahn an OS) for their browser, for contact management, etc. pp. and use Linux as an OS underneath. Application development for mobile devices is their core business so this fits quite well.

      Bye egghat.

      --
      -- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
    9. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 1

      Um, what kind of company would spend $311 million to buy PalmOS, then STOP SELLING THE TECHNOLOGY?

      Uh, I hate to burst your bubble, but that happens all the time in this industry. Just ask anyone who ever worked for Aureal.

      --

      News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

    10. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by biglig2 · · Score: 1

      One that already has an OS, and wants to buy a big box of talented OS developers to work on it.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    11. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by ilkahn · · Score: 1
      When Maytag bought Whirlpool last month, it didn't mean they were ditching their product line. /. can be so reactionary.
      Whirlpool bought Maytag.
    12. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by nuOpus · · Score: 1

      God I hope that is the truth. My wife, who is not a computer woman prefers Linux over Windows because of its stability and sheer less BS you get in NUMEROUS places in the Windows OS.

      Lots of people who take a stance against Linux do so because they lose the "superior" mentality when using Windows. You know Windows and feel good because you may have mastered it ... but in another OS you lose that grip, makes you feel powerless.

      In the case of my wife, who has started with Linux, she feels quite opposite ... preferring Linux over Windows.

      Mod me troll, but I know you're sick of it all too.

    13. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      Hmm? I use Linux where Linux is due, and Windows where Windows is due. My little sister's computer is running Linux because it's free and she loves the Gimp (she's an amateur photographer). The internet sharing router box? Runs Linux. My computer? Runs Windows - cedega and ATI drivers are simply not up to par for my gaming standards. Also, better music production software on Windows. My post had everything to do about slashdot being overly reactionary: everything google does is constituted as "evil" (as opposed to thier corporate policy) and everything released for/about Linux means it will triumph on the desktop. Simply not true. PS - I don't lose that grip with linux at all. I love Linux and often use Cygwin instead of cmd.

    14. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by mblase · · Score: 1

      What kind of a company would spend millions on BeOs, and then stop selling the technology?

      A company that realizes nobody's buying that technology anyway.

    15. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by diamondsw · · Score: 1

      What kind of a company would spend millions on BeOs, and then stop selling the technology?

      Palm makes money.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
    16. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by cpeterso · · Score: 1



      Sony.

    17. Re:How does this kill PalmOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A certain company in Redmond bought many of the word processors back in the 16-bit days - certainly not to improve them, not even to improve upon them, but simply to shut them down.

      Admittedly this seems unlikely given the price tag, but the possibility exists.

  9. Did Palm release a BeAI/Palm? by mlk · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ?Did Palm release a BeAI/Palm?

    --
    Wow, I should not post when knackered.
    1. Re:Did Palm release a BeAI/Palm? by mlk · · Score: 1

      Why flamebait? (bye bye karma)

      --
      Wow, I should not post when knackered.
  10. the end is neigh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    it's just my .02, but...

    The end may be a bit of hyperbole, although PalmSource has made some historical blunders which contributed to its demise (and I love thier devices, and have had them since the very beginning):

    1.) Basically did not update the core OS between 1997 and 2004. Version 5.x is bascially 3.x with color and a network stack shimmed in. A lot changed over those seven years, and the OS did not evolve as well as it could have. They rested on thier laurels, much like Apple did during the Scully era at Apple, releasing new models every 8 months but not really improving the core operation.

    2.) They released the big new version (6.0.) in late 2003, and no devices were ever released with it. This was a huge mistake, and points to poor partnerships (ISV and others) and planning. No other company in history has released an PDA OS that was never implemented on a retail device.

    3.) They released version 6.1 late last year, and again, nearly a year later, there are no devices running it. Again, big problem.

    Too bad the mutual admiration society that exists in Palm senior mangement was blind to their basic business folly.

    1. Re:the end is neigh... by NatasRevol · · Score: 2, Funny

      The end is a horse???

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:the end is neigh... by bhtooefr · · Score: 2, Informative

      1.) Basically did not update the core OS between 1997 and 2004. Version 5.x is bascially 3.x with color and a network stack shimmed in. A lot changed over those seven years, and the OS did not evolve as well as it could have. They rested on thier laurels, much like Apple did during the Scully era at Apple, releasing new models every 8 months but not really improving the core operation.

      Hmm? Version 2.1 (read: early 1997) had the network stack shimmed in, and 3.5 had color, IIRC.

      Version 5.x's big leap over 4.x is the fact that 4.x- is for Dragonball, 5.x+ is for ARM. Now, yes, it's the same basic OS...

      2.) They released the big new version (6.0.) in late 2003, and no devices were ever released with it. This was a huge mistake, and points to poor partnerships (ISV and others) and planning. No other company in history has released an PDA OS that was never implemented on a retail device.

      3.) They released version 6.1 late last year, and again, nearly a year later, there are no devices running it. Again, big problem.


      Note that 6.1 is 6.0 with better smartphone code. So, you could VERY well see a Tungsten running 6.0, and a Treo running 6.1.

      As for no devices being released running it, how much could PalmSource do, at the times when they weren't merged with Palm or PalmOne? (As I understand it, Palm/PalmOne kept buying and selling them...)

    3. Re:the end is neigh... by MS-06FZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, show some respect. Those were Mr. Ed's dying words...

      --
      ---GEC
      I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
    4. Re:the end is neigh... by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      Yeah, our AC is a horse's end.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    5. Re:the end is neigh... by ryanov · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is didn't PalmSource and PalmOne become Palm again just recently? How can they sell a part of a complete company?

    6. Re:the end is neigh... by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      Too bad that I have no mod points to bring your post up... But I would be glad if someone gave an explanation.

      Maybe Palm sold them the OS itself, not the company? [though this doesn't match the info from the article]

    7. Re:the end is neigh... by NuShrike · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What happened recently is that PalmSource owned the PALM brand and sold it 'back' to PalmOne, so it can rename itself Palm again. The original Palm had split into two companies with one focusing on the hardware, and the other focusing on the OS with the ability to sell PalmOS to anybody, respectively.

      Some have said this was one expensive buyback of a name originally owned, but I'm guessing it was to throw money at PalmSource where the stock has been eroding to nothing since the split.

      So after still two companies of Palm (aka PalmOne formerly known as Palm) and PalmSource, and now only just Palm except they don't own their OS anymore.

      Hindsight now I think the split was extremely pointless and expensive, and not keeping the original founders around to keep the innovation up even more stupid.

      Considering Access's history of 'great' changes and innovation, I have even less confidence they will be able to do anything with the OS except embed their browser more deeply and try to sell that unchanged for a few years.

  11. windows analogy by minus_273 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    remember a time when it was only Palm and they were on top. what happened? well, even though they were really entrenched, they didn't develop their OS infact, in many ways it is very similar to what it was like 10 years ago. Now compare that to the current state of the upstart newcomer, windwos CE.

    This is an interesting outcome. It shows that regardless of how intrencehd you are, you can be killed off by a better product. I wonder if longhorn will be an example of this.

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  12. They have an excellent PR opportunity. by CyricZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They have a near perfect marketing opportunity right now. Indeed, it would be fantastic for them to release the source code to BeOS. Doing so could very well make Access a "household name" in the open source world. And considering the massive size of the OSS community these days, that can translate to vastly increased sales and recommendations.

    I for one would be very inclined to financially support the company that provided us with the source code to BeOS, especially if under the BSD or MIT/X license.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:They have an excellent PR opportunity. by derteufel · · Score: 2, Insightful


      People seem to forget that there are parts of the BeOS source code that can not be released legally. At least not as is. It would take quite an effort to secure the agreements with other companies and/or re write the relevent portions from scratch.

    2. Re:They have an excellent PR opportunity. by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      Do you know what they do if they run into code they cannot release? They don't release it! Let the open source community rewrite such portions.

      But alas, the code was apparently licensed to yellowTab by Be, Inc., before they folded. So at least most of it can be redistributed in some fashion.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    3. Re:They have an excellent PR opportunity. by derteufel · · Score: 1


      Sure, that's a nice plan but it costs time (time==money) to determine what can and can not be released. I wish it could be done but it's not as simple as posting a tar ball to an ftp server.

      As for YellowTab, their legal rights to the BeOS source code has never been made clear.

  13. newest Treo running windows mobile.. by adamgeek · · Score: 1

    I cannot say either way if this is accurate, but the few people i know who "nerd out" constantly over the newest and greatest pda/phone stuff.. all agree the various spyshots of the new treo running Win are authentic.

    I have seen a few of these shots, and they look authentic to me, but since i'm not the ub-erphone-nerd (just a casual Treo600 user ;) I can't say with certainty.

    Engaget (linked from TFA) has another FA that says it's real tho.. here.

    1. Re:newest Treo running windows mobile.. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      So what? I've seen an iPaq running Symbian OS. Doesn't mean that HP are ditching Windows for Symbian OS, just that one of the software engineers at Symbian fancied doing a hack. It only took a couple of days.

    2. Re:newest Treo running windows mobile.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      A coworker asked Microsoft about the rumors. Microsoft confirmed them. Whether Microsoft was telling the truth or not remains to be seen, but it's looking pretty likely. I'm not at all happy about this... I much prefer Palm OS.

    3. Re:newest Treo running windows mobile.. by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      All I ever wanted was a python api to read/write the various data files after a sync.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  14. Dell Axim w/ Windows M 2k3 by RingDev · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I just picked up a dell Axim x3i with Windows Mobile 2k3 and I love it. Haven't had a problem with it yet, and I'll be starting a .Net CF project for it in the next few weeks.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:Dell Axim w/ Windows M 2k3 by Shakes268 · · Score: 1

      Blasphemer! You should know better than to post this ;) Actually those are very nice and the CF is a nice set up for a developer. Afraid most will respond saying you should just install linux on it but look where we are.

    2. Re:Dell Axim w/ Windows M 2k3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just bought an x50v and used to own a palm. I miss my palm. Have to admit that whilst my axim is great hardware, it's running a piece of shit OS. WM 2k3 is the most lame-brain, unintuitive and error prone OS I've had to handle since the last MS OS, which I was forced to use. Unfortunately, it was i who chose to buy this.

      Been looking for a JVM to run on it, but do not seem to be able to find one. Any idea why?

      As for linux:

      http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/DellAximX3

      Too-da-loo

    3. Re:Dell Axim w/ Windows M 2k3 by RingDev · · Score: 1

      Actually, I've had no problems with my Windows Mobile system. Everything has seemed pretty easy to find, and easy to use. Syncs up no problem. Haven't crashed it yet.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  15. Hysteria by Shakes268 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh Noez! We'll all have to switch to Pocket PC! @_@ In the meantime, the sky is falling guys.

  16. Well, now they own BeOS... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...how much do they want for it? I'm sure that a lot of people would be willing to pay for BeOS to be open sourced. I would pay $200 for the BeOS code to be released under a BSD license. How many more people do they need to pay the same amount before it becomes worth their while, financially speaking? I doubt they actually wanted BeOS when they bought PalmSource, after all.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    1. Re:Well, now they own BeOS... by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Palm was asking $2 million, IIRC for the BeOS source code. Surely, there are 9,999 other Slashdot readers here that could chip in! Hell, if Access would be willing to release it under the GPL, I'd throw in $200 as well. Might as well keep the code as open as possible.

    2. Re:Well, now they own BeOS... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Dear Friend,

      With due respect I like to disclose a mutual transaction to you. I am Dr Ateeq Rahman Khan, the Manager International Diplomatic Source Code Services.We have consignment of the BeOS source code valued US$2,000,000.00 Two Million United State Dollars in our custody, given to us as a side effect of a business transaction with Palm Inc. Now in our computer system it records that beneficiary of the source code is dead on Air Crash early June 2003.Until date we have not receive any signal from his relation for claiming of the Source Code. Now I want your assistance to move out this Source Code to GPL for free use. As the manager of our company I would take all measures to make sure the consignment successfully moved into the GPL. Immediately I receive your positive response then I will update you on the procedures for success of this our trustee transaction. I would appreciate you keep it utmost secret because of my position.

      Expecting your reply via email address:

      rahmankhan_kh@yahoo.co.in

      Best Regards,

      Dr Ateeq Rahman Khan

    3. Re:Well, now they own BeOS... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you could start a pledge on PledgeBank.

      http://www.pledgebank.com/

      "I will contribute $200 towards purchasing the rights to the BeOS source if 9,999 others will do likewise."

    4. Re:Well, now they own BeOS... by Lproven · · Score: 1

      I suspect 10K people is around the total number of people who ever bought BeOS - and you'd have a /really/ hard time finding that many donors now.

      OTOH, someone like Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu could buy it out of petty cash...

      --
      Liam P. ~ "Intelligence is a lethal mutation." (me)
    5. Re:Well, now they own BeOS... by Lproven · · Score: 1

      If you want a modern BeOS, go buy Zeta. Yes, it's closed source, but they *have* the BeOS sources. But their product and keep BeOS alive, or get a lot of friends to have a whip-round & buy YellowTab itself instead!

      --
      Liam P. ~ "Intelligence is a lethal mutation." (me)
  17. It's the end of everything Zonk. by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    For christ's sake where did /. find Zonk and will they please get rid of him? I have worked in the media and in news reporting and NEVER would this moron be tolerated in even the lowliest jobs.

    Each and every day the guy posts "The End of..." someone or some company. EVERY DAY!

    There is much more to news than the end of this or that, or the obligitory post about one console, then another, then the other all in one day even if nothing new is said about the second two. Just tell the big story. You don't post 12 news articles about other topics just to make sure you tell every side, it is lunacy.

    Seriously something needs to be done. Zonk needs to be given his pink-slip and /. needs to get back to NEWS! I have never watched a big site implode so quickly and at the hands of one or two people in my life. A true shame.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    1. Re:It's the end of everything Zonk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this the end of rAiNsT0rm's readership of Slashdot?

  18. Palm and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    As a palm user this has left a bad feeling in my stomach.


    Does this herald a new age of Palm becoming another licencee of Windows Mobile Technology? Check out this link http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=80 02


    Any of my fellow /.ers like to predict the future for Palm?


  19. Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by fishdan · · Score: 5, Informative
    *disclosure -- I was laid off from Palm in 2002*

    It's really too bad. Palm was a great company, with the right group of people -- actually alot of disaffected Apple folks, who had left when Jobs was pushed out. Plus the original brain trust of Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky. Those 2 recognized that Palm could not really be the nimble company they would need to be to survive if they were tied down to 3Com. They asked permission to take the company solo, and were denied by the 3Com brass -- so they started Handspring.

    Then (IMHO) really just to spite Jeff and Donna, 3Com did indeed spin off Palm. The problem was with Jeff and Donna gone, leadership was missing. 3Com installed Carl Yankowski, and man who had run giant companies before, but never a nimble tech company. Carl didn't know how to run a company of 500 employees, but he did not how to run a company of 10000, so his goal was to get to 10000 as quickly as possible.

    This meant massive hirings and acquisitions. Palm had had a damn fine IPO (Yankowski knew how to do that too) so they had alot of cash on hand. And they started hiring like crazy. And when I say like crazy, I mean they put no thought at all into who got the positions, merely that they filled them. This was 1999/2000 pre-bubble-burst, when anyone with half a brain in silicon valley was already working. As a result, Palm was "forced" to hire people with only a quarter of a brain. Bythat I mean managers who thought they could function as engineers, and people who knew how to play the company game.

    Intense corporate infighting began betweeen divisions. When one division looked like it was gaining "power" other divisions would sabotage them. The "managers" that Palm had been able to hire were only interested in making sure that their group looked better than any other group. As a result, incredibly promising ideas, such as 100% VCal/vcard complaince got killed. Palm was going to host a free public database with vcard/vcal entries, so when you updated your info in your palm, it would spread to everyone else when they synced (I know it's *sortof* been done -- but not well by anyone, and certainly the data is not publicly accessible via soap). Palm's internet strategy was completely sabotaged by "executives" who weren't part of the internet group, and really didn't undertand anything about it.

    Then the hardware disaster. One of the new Palm's was scheduled for release, and was in the final round of testing. Handspring released their new device and it was Shiny. The Palm marketing team, without really consulting with engineering announced WHILE THE DEVICE WAS STILL IN TESTING that the new Palm would be out next month. Sales of current Palms stopped cold while everyone waited for the new device. And then a showstopping bug was found. The vibrate alarm in the new device was too powerful, and after x number of alarms it shook loose something in y number of devices. So the new device was delayed. And all that time, very few Palms were being sold, because everyone was waiting for the new device. 3 months with no sales is a bad thing.

    In a last ditfch effort to calm the infighting, Palm spun off the software division into Palmsource, but it was too little too late. The heart and back of a great little company had been broken.

    I'm glad to see Palm still alive, and I'm actually glad to see this sale, I kept my equity this long, at least now I'm forced to get rid of it.

    I believe the company has shrunk back down to a small enough size that they've attritioned off the morons acquired at the turn of the century -- unfortunately they lost alot of really good engineering talent too. Palm was more than a hardware company at one point -- now they are just a hardware company. And I don't believe a hardware company can be globally competetive if it's based in the U.S.

    --
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
    1. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you, I always wondered about the stupidity.

    2. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Posting as an AC because I've already moderated..
      I worked at Palm+PalmSource until 2004, and the parent is dead on, with one unfortunate exception:

      I believe the company has shrunk back down to a small enough size that they've attritioned off the morons acquired at the turn of the century

      Unfortunately, some of the Be, Inc. engineering team are still there. Those folks never had any experience shipping a successful product, and got bogged down building an intellectually interesting product that no one wanted. Their preoccupation with vindicating BeOS's utter failure only served to make it fail yet again (witness the number of retail sales of Palm OS 6 -- zero).

      It's a sad story that's repeated often in Silicon Valley: a bunch of really smart people working hard building the wrong things.

    3. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by Watts+Martin · · Score: 1

      From version 3 to 4.5, BeOS's sales were growing pretty substantially (in terms of percentage quarter-over-quarter) and they were amassing interest from commercial developers far out of proportion to their market share. There are apparently still shipping products from Teac and Roland that use embedded BeOS systems at their core, and the BeOS-only radio automation system, TuneTracker, is evidently selling well enough to keep being actively developed. (It shipped bundled with BeOS PE for a long time, and now ships with Zeta, BeOS's successor.) It's a mischaracterization to say that "no one wanted" BeOS--a lot of people wanted it.

      Be, Inc. was not done in by their technology, they were done in by their management, who from all appearances were seeking ONE BIG THING that would give them world domination. First it was going to be being bundled with all the non-Apple Mac clones. When those were axed, the quick port to Intel, and an attempt to get bundled with one of the top five PC makers, with little concern for their existing developers. When that didn't work, a frantic move into internet appliances--and, again, no concern for existing developers. Jean Louis-Gassee was famously quoted as saying a difference between Be and Apple was that Be didn't shit on their developers, but in fact they did, repeatedly.

      I'm aware I wasn't there and you were, but I find it difficult to believe that ex-Be engineers there are ultimately responsible for PalmSource's inability to market their way out of a paper bag. Marketing is the responsibility of, well, the marketing department.

    4. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From version 3 to 4.5, BeOS's sales were growing pretty substantially

      Gassee's team at Apple constantly ripped-off Amiga (ARexx? AppleScript. GfxBase? QuickDrawGX. PlainTalk, etc..) until he became so drunk with the idea, that as he was being shown the door, he actually used his own checkbook to creat his own Amiga-like operating system (BeOS). His attitude towards BeOS developers was an attempt to manufacturer a cult (which is what the Amiga had devolved to after the technologists left the market in 1990).

      You know Amiga died because the long-time CEO of Commodore (a holoucast survivor who watched his family killed) was canned for challenging the authority of the short-time Chairman of the Board. (Think 1980s "power play".) Out of sheer spite, that canned CEO used his own personal checkbook to do-in/out-do Commodore. That fired CEO bought the name "Atari" from Warner Bros for $45K, hired an Indian (as suggested in "Miracle Man Month") and, knowing he did not have and could not produce the magic "chips" that made the Amiga an Amiga (Dale Luck's amazing Agnus, Copper, etc..) in less than 4 years, went ahead and created a brain-dead Amiga-killer (the AtariST) which he marketed below the break-even point on the Amiga to an unsuspecting public. But what this bastard failed to realize was that the name Atari was and will always be associated with "games". He made the naive think that he was selling an Amiga for less money than Commodore could, but in the end, all he succeeded in doing was dragging the name of the Amiga (produced by Commodore BUSINESS Machines) down to the level of an "Atari game" --thereby eliminating any possibility that the machine might be reviewed by BUSINESS users or financially backed BUSINESS software producers (read: Microsoft and the Mac ISVs). I doubt that the ex-Commodore CEO planned this --he had spent so many decades at Commodore and is foreign and aggressive, it is much more likely that he simply did not understand how the Baby Boom Generation in Corporate America truly viewed the name "Atari". In the end, neither AtariST nor Amiga were viable computer "brands".

      At least someone was in a position to "profit" from this disaster --your PalmSource daemon. But while that opportunistic little bastard still had control of Engineering at Apple and was busy copying the technology being lost in the current-vs-former CEO war at Commodore, Steve Jobs, also a long-time CEO who was ousted in a power-struggle with his Chairman, was off really innovating.... creating a platform for rapidly building computer models (simulations) of real-world processes. When the whole copy-the-Amiga deal ran out of steam and Apple's shareholder's cleaned house, they arranged for Steve and his NeXT technology to come back.

      Too bad that never happened for the ex-CEO of Commodore. If they had brought Jack back, the Amiga would have risen like a shining star and oblitterated all competitors, especially Microsoft. But Jack was old and turned his company over to his sons who, well...whatever happened to Atari and who really cares?

      BeOS, a sick Amiga-like idea, would crash into Palm and as Gasse joined PalmSource's board and drifted into Linux territory he raised the question with the hardware company as to why mess around with PalmOS/BeOS/Cobalt at all. At least it is a swift death. Amiga has been dug up, reinterpreted and changed hands so many time that whenever I see a post here on /. about it, it reminds me of the scene in Mad Maxx where all of the lost post-nuked kids talk about being taken away to "Tomorrowmorrow land" and use words like "Vi-vi-deoooo"...not really understanding what they are saying or why they are saying it.

      Rest in peace BeOS/PalmOS/Cobalt/Amiga/AtariST. Your pain is over. (Queue "Trance Atlantic Flight" by Utah Saints) The whole mess could have been avoided if Jobs and the ex-Commodore CEO had joined forces to do a leveraged buy out of Commodore to "get the [Amiga] chips". Think mass-produced $500 NeXT cubes --in 1990.

    5. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by kabz · · Score: 1

      I owned one of the first Amiga 1000s in the UK.

      It couldn't succeed as a straight business machine because it couldn't even display a decent page of 80 column text, without giving the user a migraine. Interlacing ??? wtf??!??!

      It *was* a kick-ass games machine though.

      RIP.

      --
      -- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
    6. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by smallstepforman · · Score: 1

      Fred fish, is that you?

      --
      Revolution = Evolution
    7. Re:Sad end to a Sad story - One developer's view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's a mischaracterization to say that "no one wanted" BeOS--a lot of people wanted it.

      Actually, what I meant was that no one wanted Palm OS 6 -- the bastard offspring of the Be engineering team. And by "no one", I mean "none of PalmSource's customers", which is not retail customers like you and me, but device manufacturers.

      If you want to call BeOS itself a success, I won't argue with you, but it sure doesn't look very successful to me.

      Be, Inc. was not done in by their technology, they were done in by their management

      Well, we got plenty of their management, too.

      I find it difficult to believe that ex-Be engineers there are ultimately responsible for PalmSource's inability to market their way out of a paper bag. Marketing is the responsibility of, well, the marketing department.

      Ah, you'd think so, but at PalmSource the product development was driven by engineering, because 1) the marketing folks weren't technical (and they never stuck around long anyway), and 2) the Be folks were good at making convincing arguments about why Palm OS needed to be completely rewritten several times, and non-technical CEO types, not knowing any better, would eat that stuff up.

  20. Thank god by Dr.+Sp0ng · · Score: 3, Insightful

    PalmOS hasn't evolved in a meaningful way since it was launched. It still has no memory protection or multitasking, and the interface looks like something out of 1994. It either needs to be updated to modern computing standards, or die, and it looks like they're choosing die. Good riddance.

    I've been a Palm user since the Palm III first came out, but I recently bought my first Windows Mobile device (a Dell Axim x50v), and I love it - I finally have a PDA capable of running modern applications on a (reasonably) modern OS.

    1. Re:Thank god by Hast · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is pretty much my experience as well. I got a Sony Clie UX50 (clamshell Palm with real qwerty keyboard) last summer. I was quite surprised to find that the Palm software culture was something of Win32 shareware "give me money!" on steroids.

      On paper the device was really good. It can play MP3s and video (re-encoded naturally). It has built in WiFi (11b) and Bluetooth. And, as I stated, a real keyboard.

      Problem is that the MP3 player was broken, in accordance to Palm standards (We don't need no steenkin' file system!) it couldn't handle folders. The movie player requires that files are in the magic folder with magic filenames. (The same is true for PSP btw, probably due to some power moran over at Sony.)

      You could install some programs on it, but as I mentioned above everyone required payment for their crappy utilities. The FTP client I tried cost $15 and couldn't handle folders.

      That's about when I gave up and realised that in order to get a working system I'd need to put a loooot of money into it.

      It works fine as a WiFi WWW browser. And with fine I mean "As long as you don't need anything advanced". I would love to flash it with a basic Linux distro so I could actually put programs that worked on it instead.

      Palm should have ditched their crappy OS many years ago and concentrated on GUI stuff. With Linux/BSD under the hood they may still have mattered today.

    2. Re:Thank god by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not PalmOS doesn't go evolve, but the fans told her everything in PalmOS 1.0 is already more than enough.

      thanks fans, next time please supports a nice product to keep evolve rather than keep saying everything existing is enough.

      consumer product is a form of desire, never can be fulfilled.

    3. Re:Thank god by arth1 · · Score: 1
      I got a Sony Clie UX50 (clamshell Palm with real qwerty keyboard) last summer.
      [chop]
      It can play MP3s and video (re-encoded naturally).

      It doesn't have to be re-encoded, if it's MPEG-1.
      Just rename the file to \MSSONY\MOML0001\MOV00001.MPG and it will play without conversion.

      The FTP client I tried cost $15 and couldn't handle folders.

      While the built-in Netfront wouldn't cost you anything and does handle folders.

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    4. Re:Thank god by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, I won't touch a piece of hardware powered by a proprietary Microsoft piece of shit product with a 1000 foot pole.

    5. Re:Thank god by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      The movie player requires that files are in the magic folder with magic filenames ... You could install some programs on it, but as I mentioned above everyone required payment for their crappy utilities.

      For video playback that's open source and plays just about anything, you might give TCPMP a try ...

      There's no real solution for free mp3 playback, but Aeroplayer will play OGG files for free, and handles folders fine.

    6. Re:Thank god by Hast · · Score: 1

      I haven't checked this thread in a while so I recon you won't see this. But someone might come to my aid.

      I just picked out the old machine and loaded it up again.

      First off, I have pretty much 0 movies in MPEG format. And I can't say I have had any in the last 3-4 years. So that it can play those directly is pretty moot. But it's not that much of a bother to transcode (I do it for my PSP all the time).

      However at least in my Clie I have Netfront version 3.0 in it which does not handle ftp. In fact it can't even load the Slashdot main page without running out of memory.

      In summary it's a POS like most other apps I've found on Palm devices. For Christs sake my bloody mobile phone (not even a smart phone) can load Slashdot. Why the hell can't a palmtop do it?

      If anyone has a good tip on an alternative (working) browser for a Palm I'd love to get tips.

      As it stands now I have to reiterate that PalmOS dying is about bloody time. It should have been scrapped years ago.

  21. NO, Acces has NOT bought Palm Source ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    It plans to buy it.
    Heise.de (Sorry, german):
    Access will pro Aktie 18,50 US-Dollar an die PalmSource-Aktionäre zahlen -- relativ viel, wenn man bedenkt, dass die Aktie momentan nur noch für 10 US-Dollar gehandelt wird. Die gesamte Ablösesumme beträgt 324 Millionen US-Dollar. Zu dem Deal müssen allerdings noch Aktionäre und die Vorstände beider Unternehmen ihre Zustimmung geben.

    Translation: Acces offers/plans to offer 18,50 Us $ per Share - relatively much, considering the Share gets 10$ on the stockmarket. The whole deal would cost 352'000'000 Us$. The Shareholders and the boards of both companies have still to accept the deal.
  22. BeOS and Palm... by HerculesMO · · Score: 1

    I remember Palm bought out the remainder of BeOS and what was to be used in their devices, the BeIA software.

    I'm still hoping to see some "Be" technology in these devices. For its time, it kicked some serious ass and even now, I'm damned impressed with it.

    --
    The price is always right if someone else is paying.
  23. Here you go by Tune · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now here is something Slashcode can help with. From the UnZonk-HOWTO:

    From /. main page click "Preferences" (top left), then click the "Homepage" tab. You'll end up somewehere like here. At right hand side you see a list of authors. Uncheck the bottom one (called "Zonk"). Then scroll down and press "Save".

    That's it: you've fired Zonk from your personal /. page!

    Glad to have been of assistance.

    1. Re:Here you go by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      I'm well aware of how to do this, but that doesn't come close to touching on the real problem. There can't be anyone on /. who ENJOY Zonk's postings. Either they are dupes, slashvertisement, or just inane or outright unfactual postings... how can any website that accepts PAYMENT for quicker access to this crap not take a stance on this?

      All that needs to be done is reign him in and school him in some basics and he could be OK, I'm not asking for his head on a platter (although I would accept it, and relish in drinking his warm blood)... seriously this is out of hand and needs to be fixed.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    2. Re:Here you go by gabebear · · Score: 1

      This is a good way to send a message to the slashdot mangement. If no one even looks at his postings eventually he'll be fired. I just took Zonk off my acceptable authors.

    3. Re:Here you go by Tune · · Score: 1

      >There can't be anyone on /. who ENJOY Zonk's postings.

      Hey, it's just your opinion; you shouldn't try to force that onto others.

      >All that needs to be done is reign him in and school him in some basics and he could be OK.

      I completely agree there. Zonk incidentally has posted one or two interesting stories, which is why I haven't blocked him from my homepage altogether... But teaching him some basics - and while they're at it give all "editors" an update - seems like a great idea! I mean: one or two dupes a day is just a poor sign that they don't eat their own stuff.

  24. Definitely not by tvf · · Score: 5, Informative

    As I stated in my blog "traditional" Palm OS development is being done by Palm (then palmOne). PalmSource is focused on Palm OS on Linux and providing an API to improve navigation of Palm OS-based applications on non-touchscreen phones. Recent management moves had them ripe for a takeover. Access has some pretty sharp minds, which is what PalmSource is in deperate need.

  25. Like MacOS Classic - OS X? by mcbridematt · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before we start rumors of Palm moving to Windows Mobile, remind yourself of the Apple migration from Classic to OS X.

    Would Palm risk loosing customers trained in PalmOS with loads of applications to keep and migrate to Windows Mobile/CE?

    I doubt it.

    There was a post on some palm news blog recently (Palm Addict afaik) where Palm was trying to recruit Linux guys. Logically they would be going for the Palm Linux port, but who knows, does POSE come to mind? Loads of apps still run on OS 4 and even the original OS 3! (and maybe OS 3.3 since that was free)

    PalmSource press release: http://www.palmsource.com/press/2005/090905_access .html.

    1. Re:Like MacOS Classic - OS X? by cpeterso · · Score: 1


      PalmSource is the software company porting PalmOS to Linux. Palm (aka palmOne) is the hardware company rumored to be switching from PalmOS to Windows CE. They are not the same company.

    2. Re:Like MacOS Classic - OS X? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  26. Hardly surprising. by Z00L00K · · Score: 2, Informative

    Palm OS is OK for small solutions, but unfortunately the development has accelerated away from it. Today it's better to use Linux or Windows CE (or whatever M$ calls it today).

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  27. Maybe Linux? by gregarican · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had read somewhere that the PalmOS might move to a Linux base. That would be great since I'm currently working on some Linux-based Qt GUI projects that run on the Sharp Zaurus. If I could port these over to a Tungsten so much the better for getting my sales force to adopt it!

    1. Re:Maybe Linux? by Orrin+Bloquy · · Score: 3, Informative

      This canard again. PalmSource was looking at a Linux *kernel*, but the OS and the API would remain the same to your apps. PalmOS has changed kernels three times in its history without any noticeable change to apps.

      The PS rep in a thread went on to say "these devices will *not* run Linux apps."

      The chief reason they went this direction was because they foresaw PalmOS being embedded in a wide variety of phones and Linux is already proven in the embedded market. They don't have the time it took to collaborate with Qualcomm or develop the Treo.

      --
      "Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on /. and I must look smart."
    2. Re:Maybe Linux? by hattig · · Score: 1

      Considering the above post that the core OS was not really advanced over the past few years, only the interface, that makes a lot of sense to me.

  28. dang. by kisrael · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Palm had such a nice OS. It was such a friendly, crisp, easy interface...so much better than the attempts to scale shoehorn in the Windows desktop that WinCE was pursuing.

    I still love my Sony Clie...320x320 screen, good battery life, nice UI. (On the other hand...the 4k memo limit and even smaller clipboard ALWAYS seemed gratuitous to me.)

    Personally I thought the writing was on the wall once they had to switch to Graffiti 2...I've only dabbled with it, but for people accustomed to Graffiti (an idea it took me a while to warm to) it's jarring. And tht Xerox "unistrokes patent" lawsuit was SUCH CRAP...Graffiti is so much better than those stupid squiggles that didn't even look like any human alphabet.

    Feh. Hopefully when its time to upgrade I can find some kind of Palm work alike. And hopefully whatever I switch to can import Palm data; I love that I have my schedule going back to 1997 riding around on my hip, not to mention assorted memos, contacts, and todos...

    --
    SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    1. Re:dang. by Arimus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The UI might have been nice but trying to write any useful apps on the Palm is a nightmare. No proper threading, no file system, stupid heap size limit, non-standard C libraries (Okay, M$ doesn't use standard libraries either but it doesn't make it impossible to use standard libraries).

      Poor 3rd party support is going to be one of the things which will listed on the death certificate as probable cause of death alongside people wanting the same os on a PDA as their desktop.

      Goodbye Palm, you had your day....

      --
      --- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
    2. Re:dang. by kisrael · · Score: 2

      (Quoting reversed for rhetorical purposes)

      Poor 3rd party support is going to be one of the things which will listed on the death certificate as probable cause of death alongside people wanting the same os on a PDA as their desktop.

      Really? For the late 90s, early 2000s the Palm seemed to have a pretty substantial and substative library of 3rd party software...in fact I thought I remember hearing a lot of envy from the WinCE / Pocket PC camps.

      I don't think people "want" the same OS on their desktop as their PDA...though they may well want the same apps. Outlook integration was probably a big selling point (though I still prefer PalmOS UI for that) along with Office support, which office drones appreciate.

      God, I remember WinCE promtoting their "no need to press a button" synching with the desktop, and how flaky and unreliable and "throw the cradle across the room"ish it was for my coworker. Sometimes you just want to synch NOW, and not wait for the file changes to be discovered....

      The UI might have been nice but trying to write any useful apps on the Palm is a nightmare. No proper threading, no file system, stupid heap size limit, non-standard C libraries (Okay, M$ doesn't use standard libraries either but it doesn't make it impossible to use standard libraries).

      Again, I think a lot of these were appropriate for the design specifications of the Palm...a highly functional, low-power consuming device. It was co-operative multitasking, ala Win 3.1, right? Not so great for multimedia in the background, but otherwise not that bad.

      And the file system thing...I thought Palm's standards for instant app switching beat WinCE's "now loading" and seemingly arbitrary division of memory into "like RAM" "like disk" .

      I admit it was a bit challenging, and my homebrew efforts never got anywhere, though I did make some cool little apps in this language called PocketC...it was a ton of fun coding and compiling and running all on the Palm itself.

      I think Palm suffered from a lot of factors...being good enough so early (along with only incremental UI improvements) reduced the incentive to update, since the oldest hardware had no performance issues it all came down to form factor and screen quality as spurs to upgrade. Other devices like cellphones started meeting some people's needs for PDA as well...

      Is PocketPC selling like hotcakes either? I think Palm is suffering the fate of the standalone PDA more than really succumbing to direct competitors.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
  29. Re:im a loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no, just stalk her until she gives in.

  30. Or as RMS would say... by jdfox · · Score: 1

    ...they're moving to Linux, not GNU/Linux.

  31. the future is the cell phone not PDA by clustercrasher · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Before you get worked up about the CE threat. Ask yourself how many carry and phone and a PDA. If you had to choose one which would it be?

    As devices get smaller, the PDA functions will migrate to the phone so look to phone manufacturers to set the trends.

    1. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by I_M_Noman · · Score: 1
      Ask yourself how many carry and phone and a PDA. If you had to choose one which would it be?
      Easy -- PDA. Does more, and easier on my aging eyes. And I never have to worry about losing signal on my Tungsten.
    2. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Before you get worked up about the CE threat. Ask yourself how many carry and phone and a PDA. If you had to choose one which would it be?

      I carry both. I have a Symbian based Smartphone, and a PalmOS based PDA. My PDA is far faster at doing PDA-ish stuff (PIM and games), than my phone. My phone has a very nice web browser (Opera), but it's piddling 146MHz CPU means that on some pages, it's fully loaded. And that plays havoc with battery life (the CPU being pegged at 100% utilization will easily drain most batteries. Think of it - most smartphones, etc. will not be able to last a full day if by some reason the CPU gets pegged at 100% utilization. Those impressive battery life numbers come from the CPU being idle most of the time. Unfortunately, complex web pages, java ads (!), etc end up tying the CPU and if you don't close it, well, the phone gets mighty warm and you'll find you can't make it rhough an 8 hour day.

      My PDA, while running faster, keeps a great battery life (though it's dying), and a much snappier response time - I click, it pops up, no waiting. If only it had Opera...

      Oh, and given this, if my phone dies, I'd like to be able to still access my PIM...

    3. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Why choose? I have a Treo 650.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    4. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by clustercrasher · · Score: 1

      Good points, I'm sure a product will come out that can do it. Perhaps they will need a separate small battery to drive the PIM side that could power on instantly like the palm. The phone people haven't figured this out but it is only a matter of time.

    5. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by clustercrasher · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree. My subject line should have said cellphones will get PDA functions.

    6. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by Moofie · · Score: 1

      As long as they don't all get tiny screens, and I don't ever, ever have to deal with T9, that will be great.

      I thought I'd hate the keyboard on the Treo, but it's almost completely without suck.

      Almost.

      Having said that, for me the killer feature is compatibility with the raft of third-party Palm apps I use on a daily basis. I don't care whose name is on the device as long as that stuff all works.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by Bent+Mind · · Score: 1

      I know I'll be in the minority here, but I'll take the PDA over a cell phone. My Clie has a beautiful display, built-in full keyboard, and WiFi networking. Why would I switch to a device that you need a magnifying glass to use, limited keypad, and slower, less secure bluetooth?

      Of course, I realized I'm also biased against cell phones. I don't own or want one. If you really need to get a hold of me, e-mail me and I'll check my PDA.

      --
      Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
    8. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by caddisfly · · Score: 1

      ...I would rather it read "PDA's will get cell phone functions"

      without all the info and other stuff that my Treo does, the cell phone part is a fairly throw-away device to me. It is the PDA that is the smarts, not that totally unreliable, low quality-ain't-no-coverage- piece of goo called a cell phone.

    9. Re:the future is the cell phone not PDA by clustercrasher · · Score: 1

      That may be true, but the market starts with 13 year olds buying cell phones. That is where the money is so until they can convince pre-teens to buy PDAs is will be brain damaged cell phones slowly getting PDA functions. Does anyone have the PDA vs cell phone units sold?

  32. Goodbye Palm by jonr · · Score: 1

    You have been such a geeks friend through the years. I guess my Palm Tungsten E will be my last Palm. GPRS/EDGE connections are coming down in price, and affordable for mortal people like us. I'm betting on Symbian, it has some neat features.

  33. This should help speed the transition to Linux by gearmonger · · Score: 1
    As most who keep tabs on this stuff know, PalmSource has been working on moving Palm OS away from a proprietary kernel to a Linux kernel (and mostly Linux drivers as well) ever since they acquired China MobileSoft.

    This acquisition of PalmSource by Access should help keep that transition going. But, I expect it to be somewhat disruptive and add some time to their roll-out schedule. That's not good, especially when everybody and their mother (except Microsoft) is jumping on the Mobile Linux bandwagon.

    PalmSource had a chance for Palm OS to be the clear frontrunner for mobile/handheld Linux. Now it looks like they risk being an also-ran. Too bad. :-(

  34. Yes, this is the end by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As the owner of a Treo 650, let me say, when I purchased the device, I pretty much knew that Palm OS was dead:

    - PalmSource has halted development on Garnet (the version of Palm OS that the Treo runs)
    - Palm's Treo 670 will probably run Windows Mobile

    That said, I don't really care:
    - My previous device, the Danger Hiptop2 / T-Mobile Sidekick II, was far less expandable and far less usable than my Treo is *today*, even assuming that Palm development ceases tomorrow
    - I already have an SSH client, IRC client, web browser (two of them, actually), email client (with IMAP sync and IDLE support, even when the phone is off), MP3 player, Bejewled 2, and a lot more.

    It does far more than the Sidekick ever could do or ever will do. As nice as the Sidekick is, it, like many smartphones, is a closed platform. I can't add features that aren't already there. With the Treo I can.

    That said, Windows Mobile is a much better platform in many regards. The UI isn't as good, but it can multitask, has a real filesystem, has more web browser choices, and doesn't have stupid heap size limitations.

    1. Re:Yes, this is the end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slightly OT:

      I've been looking at the Treo recently. Could you list the software and cost that you use for the following, since you mentioned them: ssh, email client with the features you specified, irc client.

      Was wondering what it would actually cost to get a Treo to the point you describe, which is what I'm aiming for.

      Thanks for any feedback

  35. Palm has been dying for a long time by poopie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I maintain that Palm has never really done a good job at much of anything and that their pinnacle was the release of the Palm V.

    Microsoft's inability to compete with a mobile OS that worked well on low-spec hardware, and the WinCE hardware vendors' inability to make good portable hardware really was the factor that kept Palm alive so long.

    Palm's ability to release new versions with differerent amounts of ram or different case colors can hardly be considered as innovative.

    Palm's inabliity to bundle wireless sooner is inexcusable.

    Palm's purchase (back) of Handspring for the Treo 600 just proved they didn't have a good new product. ... and then they found out that all Treos have a shielding problem that cause them to start buzzing!

    The fact that Palm has never released a real successor to the Tungsten T|3 is painful to all longtime faithful Palm power users.

    The PalmOS6 fiasco... It must have been even worse than I could imagine because even Palm didn't want it.

    The LifeDrive. Never has a machine with a 416mhz cpu seemed so slow! Hey, let's make all I/O go through a hard drive and let's not include an effective disk cache! I'm sure people won't mind waiting 3 minutes to reset, and I'm sure our power users won't mind STARING AT A FRIGGING BLANK SCREEN FOR 40 SECONDS WHILE THEY TRY TO SWITCH APPS! It makes me feel like an idiot for having purchased your product every time I switch apps.

    Palm, I was your best advocate, and I don't know how you could have disappointed me more.

    Let's hope that someone else can succeed where you failed.

  36. Hear my tale of woe by dmccarty · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Way back in the day I used to be an independent Palm developer. I didn't do it full time or anything, but it brought in a little money here and there.

    I took some of my proceeds and decided to invest in the hand that fed me, so to speak. I bought 200 shares each of Palm (PALM) and Handspring (HAND). Shortly after I bought, Palm decided to do a reverse 20:1 split to bolster their share price and buy Handspring. My 200 Palm shares became just 10, and after they bought Handspring that left me with 15 Palm shares and a fractional share in cash, which I was paid about $10 for.

    Palm then split to PalmOne (PLSO) and PalmSource (PSRC) and my 23 PALM shares turned into 8 PLMO shares. Again, I received some fractional share payout. Today I hold exactly 8 shares of Palm, Inc (again PALM) that I won't sell because I don't want to take the $15 or $20 eTrade comission hit.

    I'm only satisfied in the fact that I knew going into this that it was a risky investment and only played with money that I didn't mind losing. If there's a moral to this story, maybe it's that Palm may yet stage a comeback, but this is not a good company to invest in.

    --
    Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
    1. Re:Hear my tale of woe by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Hah.
      I did some toying around with PocketC but never got into real coding.

      But I remember thinking ... ooh! Palm is being spun off...they have a GREAT product....I should buy! For once my geekish knoweldge about what rocks can pay off in cash!

      Kind of glad I never followed up on that impulse, even though it was just laziness stopping me, thanks for the reassurance.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
  37. Re:The End of PalmOS? by salimma · · Score: 1
    No more HWR, for example, and no user-accessible expansion (because the phone company will insist you move all data in and out of the device via their network instead of USB/a memory stick, so they can keep on making you pay through the nose).

    Hand-writing recognition, perhaps - if a next release of the OS changes APIs, and the driver needs porting, the cost might not justify doing it.

    But as far as phone companies locking things down, these are normally done as a firmware modification - some Motorola phones with dumbed-down Bluetooth (no OBEX, only contact synchronization) could be brought back to full functionality by hex-editing one byte in the code!

    Given the burgeoning market for smartphones, crippling the OS instead of just the specific phones makes no sense.

    --
    Michel
    Fedora Project Contribut
  38. Let me be the 1st to say... by joshsnow · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...quick OPEN SOURCE BEoS!! Wait..this isn't OsNews.com, is it?

  39. Good by Tidal+Flame · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Good, maybe they'll finally change it now. Palm OS is becoming incredibly outdated, even as they add new features. I don't have much time to rant on about it, but I will say that the lack of a user-accessible filesystem is ridiculous. No, drive mode doesn't count.

    PalmOS's database/object model (wherein everything has to be either a database or an object) was an excellent idea back when PDAs had
    I'd really like to write more about this, but I've got to go to work. Anyway, hopefully this means they'll modernize PalmOS a bit.

    1. Re:Good by Tidal+Flame · · Score: 1

      Please disregard this comment, Slashdot managed to cut all of my argument out of it somehow.

    2. Re:Good by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      PalmOS was a great start: all data in structured DBs, all OS entities are objects. But they oversimplified the data layer, making a DB attached basically only to a single app. Which made the OS "appcentric", rather than datacentric. Sure, their little applets were (mostly) lean, so they started up immediately and were easy to master, evading the main problems of appcentric desktops. But negligible IPC, even at the data layer, prevented making simple applets work together for manageable complex behaviors. And people get stuck in applets, without even proper multitasking.

      PalmOS was a great utility for normal people, because it was simple, task-focused, stable and reliable. But they should have promoted DB objects as the crux of the biscuit. Put my data to the forefront, with any number of simple, targeted apps brought to bear on dealing with it, communicating with each other behind the scenes, as I deal directly with the data in a UI. Sometimes a filesystem view is useful to users, familiar as it is from desktops both real and virtual. A filesystem process to visualize and store/process data is just another useful app better off working in the background, presenting the data itself to us, rather than the app itself.

      The last big move in PalmOS was the announcement that it's becoming a presentation layer to China Mobilesoft's Linux for Palm HW. Which opens tremendous possiblities for addressing all of those problems I mentioned (and many others). The big unanswered question is "whither Palm/Linux?" (and, AFAICT, unasked). I hope Access prioritizes that rearchitecture, oriented as an OS primarily operating as a local cache of personal info, with trusted operations to connect to mobile Internet entities. That would be a triumphant Japan/US/China(/Finland) gizmo, which finally makes personal management/telecom so simple that it practically disappears. Leaving only users' smiles in the afterglow.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  40. alot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sure it wasn't alittle? Maybe you're right. Maybe it was alot.

  41. Re:Palm deserved it by UncleSocks · · Score: 1
    I concur. I've developed software for Palm OS and was amazed with how primitive the OS stayed for so long. To this day my Treo won't let a webpage load in the background while I read my mail. No real threading!

    Adding features like threading should have been done years ago and it could have been done without making a heavy OS.

    Microsoft is evil, but the current crop of WinCE devices have really advanced. Very nice.

  42. Disappointing lack of interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I can't believe the lack of interest this piece of news has caused on Slashdot. I thought this piece of news would have generated at least 300+ comments by now with those lamenting the possible implications this news has for Palm Inc. (a possible future Windows Mobile Licencee for its hardware).

    It just goes to show how far Palm's market share has fallen and how many of Slashdots readers PDA's run Windows mobile! Come on this is Slashdot!!

    I had thought that PalmSource was going to be bought back by Palm, and that new OS development was going to be built upon Linux [tail wagging excitedly], but now I'm left wondering as to what this hardware manufacture will do next.

    Maybe this is good thing for PDA/Cellphone market. Maybe with money and talent Access can produce an OS that will whip Symbian and MS into second and third place in the race for market share, and slashdotters will enjoy another area of computing where M$ doesn't have dominance.

  43. oh well.. by Danzigism · · Score: 0
    i'm glad i haven't bought a palm yet haha.. i'm definitely curious to see what they will be doing with the Be software they bought so long ago..

    the hard thing will be to utilize the power management of the Be-Like OS.. I don't know how well the Be kernel handles things like that.. the battery power could last a long time, or it could last a short time.. Remember the Zaurus?? you can get a good 30 minutes of battery power if you use the back-light along with a compact flash wifi card.. hardly worth it in my opinion..

    basically, i'm sure Palm went through quite a bit of development with their operating system just to get a good power scheme going on.. after all, the OS was designed specifically for handheld devices.. Linux is great because of how universal it is, but wether or not it can handle power well, is another question completely.. I simply compare BeOS with Linux simply because there hasn't been much power development as of current.. so hopefully we'll see some innovations made to the BePalmOS.. hell, they might not even go that route.. the Be software could of been thrown away months ago for all we know..

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  44. RIP Palm by hkb · · Score: 1

    Palm was relevant years ago, and they're still okay for basic PIM functionality. But without multitasking and other modern features, they've long since dinosaured. I don't blame anyone but Palm.

    And of course us early-adopters are still pissed at Palm for failing.

    Ironically, yesterday I just got an Axim and swapped it out with my Palm. Despite some minor annoyances, the OS is polished and multitasks extremely well. It has Wi-Fi, modern browsers, instant messenging galore, VNC, RDP, and does 640x480. After adding Missing Sync for OS X into the equation, I have a perfect syncing solution.

    --
    /* Moderating all non-anonymous trolls up since 2004 */
    1. Re:RIP Palm by kisrael · · Score: 1

      I'm an early adopter, and it's still my favorite for the PIM stuff.

      Were you able to transfer your old Palm data into the PIM of the Axim?

      Also, how are the formfactors with that?

      My Sony CLie is great formfactor wise...unlike Palm they realized it's better to be a little thicker than wide...much easier to hold than the Tungsten.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    2. Re:RIP Palm by hkb · · Score: 1

      Were you able to transfer your old Palm data into the PIM of the Axim?

      Yes. Towards the end of my Palm days, I was using iSync to sync things. Upon my Axim purchase, I also bought Missing Sync and fired that up and it synced everything (Address Book, iCal) to the Axim.

      The Missing Sync software has been great so far, and integrates with iPhoto and iTunes as well, although I don't have much of a need for that functionality. Well that's not true, I'm going to like having pr0^H^H^Hfamily photos synced to my Axim. Anyways, Missing Sync makes syncing as easy as iSync or Hotsync. It's nothing like Activesync, which is a good thing.

      I'm extremely impressed with the Axim so far. The wi-fi configuration in WM2003SE is absolutely horrible, but I think I'm finally on the same crack-adled wavelength as the guy who wrote that piece of software.

      Using the Axim in 640x480 landscape mode makes apps like web browsing, ssh, email, and remote desktop/vnc really shine. It's amazing.

      --
      /* Moderating all non-anonymous trolls up since 2004 */
  45. NetFront sucks. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

    So PalmOS is doomed to suck as much as their NetFront browser?

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  46. Getting work done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PalmOS reminds me of amber unix dumb terminals.
    You might not get a lot of features and looks old but you can really get work done.

    1. Re:Getting work done by carsamba · · Score: 1

      I agree. I do have desktop and a laptop computers, with real keyboards and large displays and mice and wacom tablet wireless etc. I also carry around a Palm T|T which is more than enough for PIM, some e-books, e-mail (through BT), and some games for occasional time wasting. It is all I need. A lot of /. contributers may need to develop web servers on their PDAs, but still many people don't. I have used the brick called Zaurus. Linux is a lovely platform, but way too much cruft and legacy for a speedy, easy to use PDA experience. We speak of shoehorning Window$ into handhelds, but to some extent Linux is also being shoehorned into the same. Many more keypresses and more time to jot down the same phone number or small memo. If I need some software for anything, it is available somewhere, a lot of it free (a nice small fast timecode calculator for example, as I do 3d graphics and occasional compositing). The new mobile OSes are going the same way M$ Office. Bigger Better More Features etc, when all I really need is some text editing and formatting now and then. It is all about simplicity, ease of use and fast response.

  47. Yeah. Die Palm Die! by Technomancer · · Score: 1

    Palm OS was good for little organizer called Pilot. It totally sucks for multimedia device called Zodiac. I have used Windows CE 2.11 and 3.0 Pocket PCs (Casio Cassiopeias), Zaurus SL-5500 and Tapwave Zodiac. Zodiac hardware is very cool and sleek, but the OS was just killing it. Palm OS deserves to be die. Did I mention the programming model? For ARM based Palm devices? With stupid armlets, and endianess conversion? This is insane!
    Die Palm Die!

  48. Re:According to the Trolls (httpd.prc) by i2878 · · Score: 1

    this references an older version, but might help (and it did work on my IIIxe a couple years back):
    http://www.citi.umich.edu/u/rees/pilot/

    --
    legal. fun. profitable. pick two.
  49. Re:RIP Palm - a brief summary of my palm devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Palm used to be great devices.

    I've had 5 palms and I've liked them less and less

    Palm V - great device, excellent monochrome screen, long battery-life (16hours), superior pim
    I'm amazed how much I managed to put into its tiny 2MB memory.

    Clie Peg S300 - 8MB and memorystick, but blurry screen. Battery-life not so long as Palm V.
    A cheap plastic device that didn't last long.

    Clie NR70V - great 320x480 screen, but fragile clamshell design. broke in less than a year.
    Battery approx 10hours, very slow in highres-mode
    66MHz MC68EZ060

    T3 - Superior design, a bit heavy , fast but
    terrible battery-life 4hours of typing and it was dead, max 2hours video with lowest intensity.
    Despite the battery it is a great device. The digitizer broke after one year. I can still use it but there is about 1cm error when I point. But it is the last device capable of running grafitti1.
    This is a great device watching video on, but
    I need to have the charger close.

    LifeDrive - Ha, the HD startuptime is killing its use as a PIM device. Many times I've started it up and when the app is ready I've forgot what I was going to do. I regret I didnt buy a T5 or even a PocketPC device. And it crashes a lot. A soft reset takes 3minutes and a Hard reset 15!!!!!.
    On T3 it takes ~10sec. And everytime the readheads on the HD is moving, you get noise if you listen to MP3. The screen is wonderful, but all the divX movies I've tried jags heavily although they run smoothly on T3.

    Palm seem to put all their money into treos nowadays. The Lifedrive should surely need a prom upgrade to fix most of the crashes.

    Hopefulyl their nex linux devices will be great, and I'll be fooled to buy yet another device :-)

  50. Palm OS will live on. by mtibbitts · · Score: 1

    This is a peer to peer sized transaction, so I don't expect this purchase to be a buy-and-bury move. I expect that Access will come out with a business as usual announcement quickly. Martin Tibbitts

  51. PalmOS is NOT dead ....... Yet...... by 8127972 · · Score: 1

    According to this link, ""The existing deployments of Palm OS, including Palm OS Garnet, will continuously be supported. The purpose of the agreement is to maximize the synergy between the two companies. We really don't expect any changes in the relationships that we have with licensees."

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
  52. As a fellow Palm Developer by recharged95 · · Score: 1

    Might I say it was a good ride from 1999 fellas.

    PalmOS just doesn't make sense anymore with the proliferation of devices with unique behaviors. Unlike the PC industry, which consolidated on a set of H/W upheld by standards, the mobile device industry got out of hand with proprietary IP and features. And Palm hacked in these features leading to PocketPC quality, hence lower customer rating due to snafus resulting.

    Java/J2ME was a holy grail, but it was too late. Fortunately, inside track (and from talk with Sales Engineers) has it that PalmOne will resurrect Java soon. Looks like very soon after this news.

    Let just look back and savior the fact that PalmOS had its day. And that it should be a model for future OSes since it was way more rock solid than PocketPC and even Linux for mobile devices.

    As for me, another 'well learn't language into the heap'. Out of all the APIs, I found Palm (along with Java) as one of the best thought out 'languages'.

    1. Re:As a fellow Palm Developer by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1
      Out of all the APIs, I found Palm (along with Java) as one of the best thought out 'languages'.
      Eh? I wrote a game for the old 160x160 Palms. I wanted to port ot to PalmOS 5 so it could make use of the 480x320 screen if present. Running on a different resolution screen should require few lines of code being modified, especially when my code used mostly 'vector' graphics. Not so. I had to write code to handle DIA events (I spent hours trying to find the docs) and separate code to handle similar events on Sony devices that had their own flavor of the OS. I spent ages poring over headers trying to make it work. I couldn't actually find the docs I wanted. The example code I needed seemed to link to a lib file I didn't have in the SDK. I can't remember the problems. Eventually I gave up. PalmOS is hopelessly broken with layer after layer of patches for each new feature that appeared in each new device - as if each time the OS was extended nobody had a clue that it might actually be extended again in the future. I find it easier to do raw X11 or Win32 than use PalmOS.

      I won't even mention armlets.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  53. Great News by Aron+S-T · · Score: 1

    As ususal, Zonk's headlines are totally misleading (when will we get to moderate the editors?) This is not the end of PalmOS. This is just the beginning. It's the end of Palm. Here's why:

    When I recently heard that the next generation Treo was rumored to be running Windows Mobile I nearly had a heart attack. I have been using Palm OS since the days of the Palm III, my first Palm device. In the interim I have switched desktop platforms numerous times (Mac, Windows, IceWM, Gnome, KDE, Gnome, Mac OS X). But I have stuck with PalmOS through thick and thin. I love it for two reasons - the perfectly simple UI which exactly matches the nature of the platform and graffiti. Heck, I can write quicker in graffiti then with a pen. (It pissed the hell out of me that Treo's don't come with grafffiti).

    Palm, otoh, is a sucky company. Except for the T3, most of their products since the days of the Palm V have sucked wind. I bought Handspring and bought Clie's and only bought another Palm (the T3) because i had no alternative. Plus, Palm has developed a "fuck you" attitude towards its customers. I bought a used T3 off their site about a year ago, only to discover Palm is the ONLY hardware vendor I know that provide NO warrenty (not the usual 90 days) on refurbished products they themselves sell.

    This story confirms several things: the next generation Treo will contain Windows. PalmOS sold itself because it had lost its one remaining paying customer - Palm. The results will be fantastic. I haven't bought a Treo, because the platform is feature poor, both in terms of hardware and software. Access will sell this new Linux/Palm OS hybrid to tons of cell-phone manufacturors around the world who will be offering many new and innovative alternatives products to PalmOS lovers like me (and finally reinvigorate the platform by making it stable, secure, multi-processing and network ready with its Linux base). I wouldn't be surprised if Sony came back with with a Access OS based cell phone product.

    Meanwhile, only someone brain-dead would buy a Windows Mobile based product from Palm (heck if I was in the market for that platform, there are plenty of vendors with higher quality products and better customer support and service). Which will mean Palm will go into a tailspin and suffer the ignomius death it deserves.

    The emperor is dead! Long live the emperor!