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Syllable - The Little OS with a Big Future?
Vanders writes "Tired of endless Windows security problems? Intrigued by Linux's power but discouraged by its complexity? Tempted by Mac OS but not thrilled with the hardware cost? In an OSNews article, Michael Saunders takes a look at Syllable, the OS that picked up where AtheOS left off over two years ago. Michael takes you through Syllable and shows you what we have been doing these past few years."
ooh you fail it!
If it can solve the problems Linux has on the desktop, namely incredibly poor software installation and ugly graphics, it might have a chance. It seems promising, but then again, so does Linux. I've been wishing Linux on to the desktop, but it just doesn't seem like it's happening.
Question: Is there any way to use Linux device drivers with this os? How hard would it be to "port" Syllable to Linux?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is their web site powered by Syllable? And can it withstand the /.?
the OS that picked up where AtheOS left off over two years ago
Finally!
I've been severely missing an Os that excells in lack of support, lack of compatibility and an unsurpassed vapor-are factor.
I'm in...
Looks like Syllable's site has been slashdotted. What a shame. As to the complexity of Linux issue. It appears to me that Syllable is a Linux based system using Gnome and it looks similar to Fedora in some ways. So I ask you, how can a Linux system be less complex than Linux?
I never used AtheOS, but I might install this on one of my older machines. (As in 200MHz as opposed to 750MHz) Apparently it'll work. :)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Athe-what?
Now *there* was a great OS. Small, lean, easy to use, ran great. I know there's an attempt at an opensource BeOS but it seems to be a long way away. I looked at Syllables website, atleast they have a livecd, I might as well try it, got nothing to lose. Until then i'll still keep my midnight candlelight vigil until BeOS comes back.
Interesting. When can I run iTunes on it??!
Can you run AtheOS and still believe in God?
... sorta sniffed at it when my aging BeBox arrived at its final unsupported destination, but ... I don't remember if this project had architecture-neutrality as a spec ... and i retired the BeBox and bought a powerbook instead, abandoning x86 forever (or at least as much as possible)...
still, a powerpc port of another new and interesting OS would be an interesting endeavour. anyone care to answer the question as to how portable syllable is?
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Syllable is getting more press than the other AtheOS fork Cosmoe.
blah blah blah....
drightler@technicalogic.com
It would be nice if they could repair the cyclic links on their website. On many links you get:
Found a cyclic link in http://www.syllable.org/index.php
Doesn't make it easier to read FAQs and general info.
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Answered by: Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda
Last Modified: 8/02/04
"Tempted by Mac OS but not thrilled with the hardware cost?"
Ugh, having the start menu at the top isn't really making it like MacOS, and it sure seems that's the only similar thing. It doesn't even integrate the application menus into the title bar. Another great part of MacOS is the fact it "just works." I doubt you get this with Syllable. Furthermore, the MacOS UI is a lot nicer.
Moreover, I doubt this OS will really take off with a "big future." BeOS/QNX/etc were a lot spiffier, and they didn't survive. I wish them the best of luck, however.
I would rather wait for Duke Nukem Forever OS... Version 2... SP1... a...
The article claimed that there were abundant Linux applications available on Freshmeat, but if you wrote an IRC client for Syllable, your version might have a chance of becoming the official one. Excuse me, but doesn't this make Linux look more appealing? I would have also liked to see information about what would be involved in developing applications for Syllable. Is there a well-documented API? What about support for multiple languages? (I tried to check the official site, but it seemed to be having trouble handling the traffic.)
Autopr0n is down while system moves house, you motherfucking moron.
What's lacking: Some features and subsystems not yet coded; limited range of apps; occasional stability issues.
Wow, just glad it's missing the little things that don't matter.
Linux O Muerte!
How do you pronounce that? And for that matter, how do you pronounce BeOS? Just wondering, in case I ever have to communicate with a live human about it.
I don't know if Syllable will be the ones to take advantage of it (or if anyone will), but I think that in the next few years there is a real opportunity for somebody to take over the PC operating system market. Microsoft has delayed Longhorn numerous times already, and it looks like the difference between WinXP and Longhorn will be as vast as the difference between Windows 3.11 and Win95. That added to the fact that many Windows users are already unsatisfied enough to be looking for something new.
Apple will not be the ones to usurp windows because their hardware is too expensive for most people. Linux or other BSDs won't be the ones to take over because they're too difficult for most people. Even the most user-friendly distros like Mandrake and Redhat, despite their continuing progress and great efforts, have some problems. Most fundamentally I think it's the fact that despite all of the friendly aspects, it's very difficult for a user of Linux to avoid ever using the command-line. I think the way OSX uses the command-line is much more appropriate -- if you want to use it and learn it, it's there and you can use all of its power, but realistically, no normal user will ever be FORCED to learn how to use it.
If Syllable manages to get some momentum, they might be able to do it. We'll see.
Apple could become a contender if they decided to take the leap towards porting OSX to the PC, or working to make their hardware cheaper. Neither of those look very likely though, but they're certainly possibilities, and things I would love to see happen.
It's not, at least not where it matters to the user! Consider:
/etc/conf.modules. In Syllable, just copy the driver into a directory.
Driver installation. In Linux, mess around compiling your kernel and/or modprobing modules and editing
User-interface: single toolkit and desktop, sane design. Consistency is the result.
Plus, there are other things. The initscripts are cleaner and shorter (one of the factors involved in the sub-10-second boots), the GUI subsystem is like X and a toolkit all-in-one, and others.
So install it, and you'll see that it's not as complex at all!
How is 64 Megs low memory usage?
Seems like a pretty good chunk of memory if you ask me for a less than complete OS.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
It appears to be dead but Eros is the OS I really want...not another Unix retread, gimme that capability-based security! With E! Somebody help these guys out! :)
Or is there only 2 different menu systems now?
There is the "Start" button which reveals the program listings and there is the CDE type dock system. Syllable seems to have the Start button. With all the different OS's there should be more than 2 menu mechanism's.
I actually liked Program Manager.
I guess everyone is trying to give the new users a break.
thanks.
The old saw about Macs being expensive is old and tired.
It is more accurate to say that you cannot buy a "cheap" mac. That is, the lowest price mac you can get is more expensive than the least expensive PC you can buy. But those two machines won't wind up being even close to either other in features or TCO. This is particularly the case with laptops.
He stated at the time that his aim was to have the hardware compatibility of linux, but get rid of X.
Those who do not understand X are condemned to reinvent it.
Poorly.
(Paraphrased from a Henry Spencer quote about Unix.)
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
it r t3h 5ux0r!
I've always thought AtheOS would be pronounced "AY thee oss" with the "thee" having hard TH like in Theology, not soft TH like in "the".
I've always pronounced BeOS as "BEE oss"
(If someone can show me a version that works for dead rat 7.1, I'll be impressed). Yeah, I know it's old already.
Eeeek.
"Syllable requires a processor that supports i586 (Pentium) instructions; this is a leftover from AtheOS; Kurt wrote some lines of i586 instructions in assembler. An installation uses up several hundred megabytes of hard disc. About 20 to 24mb of ram is needed to boot. So, a Pentium 60 with 24mb of ram and a small hard disc should be the minimum currently able to 'run' Syllable. A Pentium 166MMX with 64mb of ram and a 1gb hard drive can run Syllable quite comfortably."
I'm reminded of the good old days, when installing a driver was as simple as clicking on the driver's icon and dragging it into the System:Extensions folder. Alas, most modern operating systems aren't anywhere near as usable as MacOS was in 1989...
Nice to see some are at least starting to get a clue...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Until then i'll still keep my midnight candlelight vigil until BeOS comes back.
Like totally you totally need like an Amiga, man! Dude, holy crap, the Amiga with OS/2 Warp was like the greatest system ever and you could install it on like a NeXT and it was like so cool because like... uhhh... ummm... JUST TRUST ME, IT WAS THE GREATEST OS EVER!
Except of course for JoS. And Freedows, which begat the equally successful Alliance OS.
And don't forget Haiku OS, which nobody knows what it is or why anybody'd bother working on it -- it's another one of those JoS-style "announcement engineering" projects, where they've got 200 pages of elaborate plans and a really beautiful, artistic, state-of-the-art website... But no working code and nobody trying all that hard to write any. They're too busy appointing committees and making plans to make plans to debate their plan-making proceedures.
Rule of thumb: If a project has a website already but hasn't yet released a working alpha or prototype, it's unlikely ever to release anything at all. If the website is plain-vanilla HTML 1.0, maybe there's a slim chance, but if it's got CSS? Forget it. Just a bunch of losers playing with themselves.
There aren't many things too big for two or three programmers to whack together a halfassed prototype/proof-of-concept (or at least proof that you HAVE a concept) and get it running. You don't need a website for that, and you sure as fuck don't need graphic designers and a logo. I seem to recall hearing about some Finnish guy banging out a fubar'd first crack at a Unix-ish OS kernel all by himself some years ago... And THEN he asked for volunteers.
Be Inc. gets credit for at least releasing a usable operating system (I was quite fond of it, though I didn't use it much because no useful software ran on it), but they get a big fat Cock-in-the-Face Award(TM) for providing a "solution in search of a problem" and therefore failing utterly in the marketplace.
If you run Debian or a Debian based distro, and are tempted by portage, check out apt-build and kernel-package
Why do we keep trying to bridge this "gap" between Linux and windows? I mean really there is a gap there for a reason. I do not expect nor do I want every modern home user using the operating system that since its inception has been FGBG (For Geeks By Geeks).
There are other more geek-ish OSes, yes. However, linux is the mainstream one with the most support. There are a few reasons that the gap should stay the huge gap that it currently is.
If it became a mainstream operating system, maybe not even necessarily on the scale of M$ Windows, it would become even more prone to virus, trojan horse and other horrible attacks. I am not saying these things do not happen now. On the contrary there are vulnerabilities exploited all the time. However, most geeks know how to fix the holes pretty quickly and there are not enough linux machines to make a hardcore evil-doer write a virus for it. After all when was the last time you heard a nifty name on the news for a linux worm. I can name at least two dozen Windows worms/viruses.
For home users tech support is already enough of a pain in the butt. Dell and HP/Compaq must get millions of inane questions a day, and most those chimps they have working for them read from a book and probably could barely turn a PC on themselves. So I can see a conversation between tech support involving the install of a program. My mom has a hard enough time double clicking setup.exe.
Backwards compatibility is also a hold-back. I mean who wants to give up their present machine and lose with it all the other games and software which they came to love oh so much. WINE is good for a lot but there are still a lot of games that cannot keep up when in WINE. While there may be a lot of replacement programs available for users that isn't what they always want.
In the end Linux needs to just stay put. It isn't about catching the big evil M$. The fact is they will somehow manage to self-destruct themselves on their own. Leave Linux and any other "geek" OS alone. They should stay with the geeks and some of those lucky server admins.
I think Syllabus will prove to be another "fad", a fake "linux" of sorts that never quite made it. To be honest the OSes we have now are enough. If you want simple to use with a pretty powerful interface hidden away then use OS X. If you want a fairly stable, even if buggy, OS with lots of support and tons of software and ease of use (for the most part) use Windows XP (maybe 2K) all others are CRAP. If you want true power and don't mind the occasional frustration and want to seem cool around your geek buddies then use Linux, [fill in the blank]BSD, or maybe even that proprietary OS Solaris.
---
"The same thing we do every night Pinky; Try to take over the world!"
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
I noticed that the original post, which hadn't been moderated at all before, got marked down as "overrated." How does this work? I'd be less confused if it was off-topic or obvious flamebait, but it seemed to be pretty innocuous.
I've always liked AtheOS and Syllable. Syllable has a pretty active community of developers and is maturing at a pretty good pace.
To clear up a few misconceptions... The OS that was written in pure assmebly was, I think, SkyOS. AtheOS/Syllable is not based on Linux. It does not use KDE or KDE apps. The web browser does use the engine from the KDE web browser (can't think of it's name off hand). It's also not meant as a step between Linux in Windows, nor is it a BeOS clone. It's just Syllable.
Best of luck to the Syllable team though. Prove me wrong.
You means like OSX?
Its nice to see people trying to develop new OSes, but it looks like another UNIX clone. When is a truly new OS going to come out?
You might say that this is very "lurgciting" news...
www.clarke.ca
I tried AtheOS a few years ago, it WAS amazingly fast and pretty stable, not many apps but it worked. Good project, Linux started as a pet project and blossomed into a full blown competitor for Microshaft or sorts. Try syllable, I know I'm gonna try to download it sooner or later. -- Osi -- Militant Agnosticism -- Have you had your miniature condoms today?
Osi Osi Osi Osi Osi
Although I use OS X (my first mac was a year ago) and think it's great, I get the impression from the lifers that OS 9 and perhaps some of the earlier ones were more usable.
Wait, which one is ceren? I can't tell.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
I suppose you haven't seen the eMac or iBook, then. Yes, you can get a Dell for less, but are the bottom Dells as good? Will they hold up as well or last as long? Are the batteries as good?
This sounds like the Amiga DEVS: directory, where each driver was a *.device file, IIRC.
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
so far my experience with syllable has left a bitter taste in my mouth, not only did it lock up on startup, but left my machine hanging. (power button didnt even respond!)
of course maybe that was only a problem with the machine's hardware, or compatibility with it.. but still, even linux doesnt do that, nor does beOS or bsd or anything else I've tried..
I'd give it several more releases before trying it.
Well, speaking as a middle-term Mac user (I switched from PC's in 1995, which means that I have roughly the same amount of time using the "Classic" MacOS as I do using OS X) I'd say that OS X has finally caught up in terms of overall usability, but it's taken a while. I had to grit my teeth and make myself use everything below 10.2; I kept doing it since a) I knew I'd have to get used to it, and b) as an old DOS-head, I really did (and still do) appreciate having Unix so close to the surface. With 10.2, I'd say they achieved roughly the same level of usability as they had in the System 7 days; 10.3 is as good as OS 9 overall. Certainly there are things about the old MacOS I miss, even now, but the cool new stuff in OS X more than makes up for it, most of the time.
All things considered, what I really wish they'd done was produce an evolved version of the Classic interface with Unix running underneath, and added in the cool NEXT-derived stuff piece by piece. They had already proven they could this successfully, with A/UX, but I believe that was one of many things that got "Steved."
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
User-interface: single toolkit and desktop, sane design. Consistency is the result.
At least until someone ports GNOME or KDE over. Please, pass a law banning freedom or we will never get a free desktop suitable for the masses!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Bitch and moan, bitch and moan. You'd think tech geeks would step up to the plate and encourage the makers of Syllable to keep up the good work, just as a matter of course. But what do we get on good ol' Slashdot?
Whining, of course. Whining that Syllable doesn't work as well as Windows or Linux, despite the fact that it's an alpha (at a 0.5 release, no less) and that it's only been in development for two years. Whining that it doesn't do everything under the sun right now! And especially whining over the fact that some poor brain-dead schmuck who has the gall to call himself 'tech-savvy' might, at some point in the future, have another choice in the field of OS's. God forbid that this pseudo-nerd should be presented with the opportunity to use another OS; this moron is already troubled by the existence of Linux (although the ten or so MS operating systems that he's installed over the years doesn't seem to bother him), and refuses to even believe that a thing like BSD exists.
Crawl back into your holes, naysayers. You aren't geeks; you aren't even good enough to aspire to geekhood. You're just one of the sheep and I, for one, would rather my food didn't pretend to sentience.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Syllable looks a lot like the Amiga Workbench to me. They even use the "Prefs" terminology, the shell formatting is the same. Let me guess, it supports Rexx?
Damn this OS sucks =) it's harder to keep it alive then it is to crash it! It took about 15sec and then the whole system froze! It didn't work on my laptop and after 3 reboots on another machine I gave up! You have ALOT of work to do guys! You are talking about Windows security, sorry in this case I even think Windows beats your security ! Sorry guys, I even like Windows better then this OS :)
What if I don't like that toolkit or desktop?
my KDE-desktop is pretty damn consistent.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Hint: if you need something like InstallShield to install a program, you've screwed up already. A program should be installable by copying a single folder onto your harddrive, and uninstalled by simply deleting that folder. (I hear there's a project called ROX working on introducing sane, usable file system structure to Unix-alike systems.)
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
What if I don't like that toolkit or desktop?
Use something else. You know, like a lot of people don't like Windows so they use Linux?
my KDE-desktop is pretty damn consistent.
Apart from the GTK+ apps, and Firefox, and OO.o. Maybe it's just barable if you want to stay right on the bleeding edge of Linux and KDE, where every application you always run is always totally upto date, but for those of us who don't buy into the rabid Gentoy fanboism and who don't enjoy upgrading everything every month, consistency on Linux is a total fucking joke, a myth purpurtrated by fools and fanboys who don't understand the term and think that a semi-transparent XTerm over their anime wallpaper is the panacea of good design.
I don't use any GTK+ apps. Well, I do have GIMP installed, but I use it only rarely (in three months I have used it for grand total of 2 times for 5 minutes total). I do have OO.org and Firefox installed, but again, I don't use them that much. Firefox is just for sites that require flash (Konqueror is 64bits on this machine, and it doesn't work with 32bit flashplayer-plugin). OO.o is installed, but I haven't used it at all.
Why did you bring Gentoo in to the discussion?? What does having up-to-date software have to do with consistency between the apps?
And, like I said, my KDE-desktop is VERY consistent. I would say that it's MORE consistent than Windows is for example! Many apps in Windows use their own toolkit/look 'n feel. Hell, Office XP looks different than W2K does for example! on my desktop, 95% of the apps look and behave in similar way, and the remaining 5% aren't even used.
Do you want some cheese with that whine? IMO good design is something that lets the user do his job as smoothly as possible. If that transparent Xterm over an anime-wallpaper helps the user to gets his job done, who the hell are you telling him that "No, that is wrong! You shouldn't run your system like that!"?
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
From the BeOS website when once upon a blue moon it existed: Bee Oh Ess.
(I personally prefer Be OSS, but the company sold its source code instead)
I don't use any GTK+ apps..
..my KDE-desktop is VERY consistent
You then go on to mention a GTK+ app and several other non-Qt applications.
Oh yeah, my KDE desktop is perfectly consistent, but that's only half the picture and you know it. If you manage to turtously stick to KDE and Qt only, ever, then of course you'll have a wonderfully consistent desktop (Unless you have an old Qt 1.x or 2.x application you might want..whoops, did I just say that?) Welcome to the real world though, where you are the exeception to the rule by a very, very long way. Almost nobody runs only KDE and Qt applications only just so they can have a consistent desktop. Most of us have real work to get done.
I said that I have few such apps installed, but I don't really use them at all. If I don't use them, what does it matter what toolkit they use?
"half the picture"? In my case, KDE/Qt-apps satisfy my needs just fine, so they are all I run. And they are perfectly consistent.
I have tried non-Qt/KDE apps, and went back "turtously" to KDE/Qt. Like I said, they do what I want them to do, and that's good enough for me.
No, I don't have any Qt 1.x or 2.x apps. Those are old news.
I don't give a flying fuck about your or anyone elses desktop. I care about MY desktop, and my desktop is consistent. And if I can do it, why can't everyone else do it as well?
I don't use KDE-apps just so I could say "my desktop is consistent!". I use them because I like KDE, the apps do what I want and I'm comfortable using them. The consistency that comes with it is a mere side-effect.
So, you are saying that you can't get work done with KDE? uh, OK.....
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Not sure if parent should be flamebait - it wasn't said too nicely, but there's definitely a point in this. We should encourage the makers, it's still alpha, after all.
I've run a small part of the docs, especially the GUI apis. They are nice and simple C++ code...the whole system is nice, but since you are doing an operating system from scratch, why not put some innovations in there?
Here is a list of innovations I would put in:
1) full garbage collection, system wide. C++ is ok for programming, but it is even nicer if it is garbage collected. It would certainly attract more developers on the platform.
2) instead of doing a traditional file system, why not do a live object-oriented persistent distributed database system? it would attract even more developers to it. Applications are 90% I/O...if you could eliminate that, you would have a sure winner. And you would solve all the registry and persistent storage problems.
3) a new object-oriented programming language that is fully garbage collected, compiled on the fly, distributed over the network (the class installation and download would be transparent to the user), coupled with full garbage collection and persistence, would truly rock the O/S world. It would mean that we simply wrote the applications, without worrying too much about memory management, installation, updating, compiling etc.
I care about MY desktop, and my desktop is consistent. And if I can do it, why can't everyone else do it as well?
I'll say it again but slowly this time: because...you...are...an...exception.
So, you are saying that you can't get work done with KDE? uh, OK.....
KDE alone? Certainly can't! Should I use OO.o or *guffuw* the glorious crap pile that is KOffice? I wonder now..Firefox or Konquorer? Adobe Acrobat Reader or the KDE Postscript viewer that barely works? Gimp or..hey wait, there is nothing like the Gimp for KDE! Oh sorry, I forgot that there's KPaint (Ha! I crack me up!)
No, I don't have any Qt 1.x or 2.x apps. Those are old news.
Yeah, shame that isn't it? I have yet to find a decent replacement for the KDE 2.x KBiff that worked so well with KMail. Seems it got left behind with the long march to Qt 3.x Don't get me started on KView v's Kuickshow either. I know KView is a KDE 3.x application and thank god I managed to find a package and install it, but I know I'll be left without any sort of decent image viewer once we're all dragged kicking in screaming to KDE 4 and those Qt 3.x applications become "Old news". What fun!
Have fun with your consistent desktop. The rest of us will be hoping that Qt fixes their X clipboard support. Again.
This has almost nothing to do with the elegance or otherwise of the OS and almost everything to do with the user base. Linux distros have got bigger, technically more complex, and, I would suggest, simpler to use, partly because of better GUIs and so on, but, mainly, because more stuff just works. Windows is, well, Windows, but if you want to get the digital camera in your shopping basket to work with your computer, it's about as easy as it gets, because there's a driver for it. My RISC OS machine was astoundingly simple to use, but since it just can't do most of what I need to do in 2004 it counts as "complicated" wrt real-world tasks. On that basis, any new OS with zippo support from manufacturers and large software companies is likely to be complicated for Joe Public.
Virtually serving coffee
What makes me an exception? Because some AC on
Koffice is OK for creating documents, it's doc-compatibility is not perfect, however. If you need oo.org, you can have it KDE-ized just fine. it would then share the look 'n feel, the file-dialogs and the works. I fail to see the problem there.
I use Firefox in Windows and Konqueror in Linux. I have exactly zero problems when it comes to Konqueror and web-browsing. I could just as well use Firefox (I have it installed), but I choose to use Konqueror instead. Just because you prefer Firefox over Konqueror, does not mean that everyone else does as well.
I haven't even installed Acrobat Reader, yet I can read PDF's just fine. Amazing isn't it?
Gimp is one of the few apps with no equivalent in KDE. But it's not a problem for me since I don't need it that much. And you can't live with the fact that ONE app looks different from the others? Hell, there are apps in Windows that look different from the others!
Well, the Kbiff-website says: "KBiff has now been ported to KDE 2.0 and 3.0.", so it might work with even more recent versions. And if you want an app like that, go ahead and write one. Surely an uber-hacker such as yourself could do it in no time?
Who is this "us" you are talking about? Rest Linux/*BSD-users? What makes you qualified to speak for them? And FWIW: I haven't seen any problems with the clipboard.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
What makes me an exception? Because some AC on /. says so?
..if you want an app like that, go ahead and write one. Surely an uber-hacker such as yourself could do it in no time?
No because you do not run any non-KDE applications. The majority of Linux users run OO.o, Firefox and all sorts of non-KDE applications. You are 1% of a 2% market. You are an exception, wether you know a few friends who are also exceptions does not make you any less of an exception.
Koffice is OK for creating documents..
If your document extends to a little bit of bold text and a bullet list then I expect it is, but some of us need to get real work done and OO.o is the only application that can do it on Linux. KOffice is a toy compared to OO.o.
Just because you prefer Firefox over Konqueror, does not mean that everyone else does as well.
No it doesn't. The fact that the vast majority of users prefer Firefox over Konqueror means that the majority does. E X C E P T I O N.
I haven't even installed Acrobat Reader, yet I can read PDF's just fine. Amazing isn't it?
You can click on the table of contents links and get the right page? You can print the PDF's and have them appear as they were intended? You can navigate a 200 page PDF without screaming in pain? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. The KDE PDF/PS viewer is a joke almost as funny as KPaint.
Ahhh, the stupid attack of the idiot debator. I have plenty of other projects that I'm working on that I don't have the time to learn Qt, learn KDE, deal with the various stupidities of both and write an application. Especially not when I know that in a years time Qt 4 and KDE 4 will come marching around the corner, throwing backward compatability to the ground like it's dog dirt and my efforts will have been wasted because my application needs to be rewritten to use the New! Shiney! API's. Pass me the crack pipe I think I'm excited at the prospect!
What makes you qualified to speak for them?
If you know of any users who are thrilled by the utterly broken and boneheaded clipboard handling of Qt then please let me know about them, because I think they may require medical attention.
The problem with these comparisons is that Windows Pro (the equivalant OS) still costs $280 (cheapest I've ssen it). You can't take into consideration gray market OEM versions (I'm trying to make legal comparisons). You may be able to consider edu versions, but that's still an extra $200. All this makes that PC you built cost more along the lines of $680 - $780.
I'd love to build a PC, but it is cost prohibitive right now simply because of the OS (and linux just hasn't been the solution for me).
> Driver installation. In Linux, mess around /etc/conf.modules.
/lib/modules tree.
> compiling your kernel and/or modprobing
> modules and editing
> In Syllable, just copy the driver into a
> directory.
If you already have the binary module for your distro, you can copy it in the
About modules.conf (You are using RH6.2 or something similar if you have conf.modules!), autodetection is working better each time.
And I doubt Syllabe can magically solve any driver installation problem. I still have an ancient ISA NIC, no OS autodetect it, but at least I can set it manually in Linux and Windows 98 (No, XP doesn't support it).
> User-interface: single toolkit and desktop,
> sane design. Consistency is the result.
That doesn't stand up in the long term. If it ever become more used, Qt/GTK+,etc will pop up.
Even now it has apps ported from Linux, I doubt those are well integrated in the GUI.
> Plus, there are other things. The initscripts
> are cleaner and shorter (one of the factors
> involved in the sub-10-second boots), the GUI
> subsystem is like X and a toolkit all-in-one,
> and others.
Most Linuxes are bloated, I agree, that hurts performance.
Got Pike?
If you already have the binary module for your distro, you can copy it in the /lib/modules tree.
If it is the exact same version as your kernel, or compatable, and you have module versioning enabled, and your kernel contains the correct "core" modules already. Otherwise you're SOL.
And I doubt Syllabe can magically solve any driver installation problem. I still have an ancient ISA NIC, no OS autodetect it, but at least I can set it manually in Linux and Windows 98 (No, XP doesn't support it).
Same with Syllable if we're talking about ISA hardware. You'd have to configure it manually, but then it is an ISA device which by their very nature require manual configuration. PCI and USB devices are handled much better.
As for hardware detection, well in the five years I've been using Linux it's always been quite bad. Just the other day a Redhat 9 installation managed to munge the X configuration. Trying to run through First Boot with a garbled display was fun..
Syllable : It's an Operating System
The reason I truly believe why Linux never took off in the desktop market and perhaps never will is because there are way too many GUI libraries with way too many interdependencies among them. Back in 1970, console applications were simple. vi, emacs and gdb were all that was needed. Fast forward 30 years and you quickly realize that these ancient tools don't cut it anymore.
h tml
...
:)
If the people developing Syllable were serious, they would waste NO TIME and design a serious development system. Not screen scrapers like xxgdb, DDD or even KDevelop, but a powerful, and easy to use development environment that focuses on designing an application in the designer's language. Unlike current GPL tools that force the developer to figure out 10 other helper languages just to compile and distribute the project (and that's after you get all the right versions and their dependencies installed).
Overall, the IDE would need to draw new developers and keep them, not frustrate them. Something Linux has not done and must do in order to even approach competing with Microsoft on the desktop.
[Required for linux GUI app]
GTK+ --> GLIB --> Pango --> ATK --> X11 --> glibc
Oh, lets not forget "pkg-config"!
Needed to compile hello world
http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/sec-compiling.
[Required for windows GUI app]
MFC --> NOTHING (DLLs already on every system)
[Typical development tools needed on Linux]
vi, g++, gdb, automake, autoconf, perl,
[Typical Windows development tools]
Visual Studio
I rest my case
So what? You can do similar things in (g)vi(m) using abbreviations:(I used "eM" instead of "em", since it is less likely to appear in ordinary text.
Also, "<ESC>" means the escape character, which must be entered as "^V <ESC>" when defining the abbreviation.)
While entering text, type "eM{", and the cursor will be put in the right spot, between the braces.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
The BeBox was PPC, never x86. BeOS's x86 support came later - unless you mean you took some old x86 box and installed BeOS on it to make a BeBox-ish clone. Pop the hood and look at your chip(s). Or look here: http://www.bebox.nu/
:) It seems like there is still a community, though as with Amiga I find the most based in Europe.
And if it is running slow for you, I have to think you've bloated it somehow - though I probably have been using mine less that you have yours, and I also never upgraded to the last couple OS releases.
I've seen others out there still developing - some sourceforge projects and such, and if I ever got my butt in gear...
8-PP
We failed to buy nextstep because it had hardly any apps. It had hardly any apps because it didn't have the "Mac" name that symbolized "the same computer little Johnny uses at school."
As long as I have to wait for the OS to finish doing an activity, the system is insufficiently powered.
Some things will never be instantaneous. For instance, there is a speed of light barrier to browsing North American web sites from the Far East or vice versa.
Given some incentive though, I think the chaps at Trolltech could smooth out the wrinkles.
If you're like me and just curious about alternative OS's, here's an interesting one from the boonies of Italy: Hactar If he'd get some help, he might even port Noctis over to linux. (If ya asked real nice...) };-)
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
The thing about Macintoshes is this: being able to buy them from only one source (Apple Computer, of course) means monopolistic pricing, but it also means hardware and construction that meets a known standard. Makers of prefab Wintel systems often cut corners on parts and labour to effect the lower pricing; having a more capable video card means little if the mainboard, power supply, cooling, and other such critical items are failure-prone! In the computer I'm using, the mainboard had to be replaced twice; and the CPU fan once; and, oops, there were no inlet/outlet fans in the case, so I had to shell out for those too.
I think a fairer comparison would be between a Macintosh with a certain feature set and a custom-built computer for which you can green-light each part that goes in, not just for big numbers but for quality as well (like, say, turning down the Microsoft tax). Would the custom-built machine be more expensive than a prefab one? Almost certainly. Would it be more expensive than a Macintosh? That, of course, depends.