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Glimmers From The 2.4 Horizon
Oestergaard writes: "We're finally going pre-2.4! Linus posted this on the LKML (Linux kernel mailing list): >>I just made a 2.3.51 release, and the next kernel will be the first of the
pre-2.4.x kernels. That does NOT mean that I'll apply a lot of last-minute
patches: it only means that I'll let 2.3.51 be out there over the weekend
to hear about any embarrassing problems so that we can start the pre-2.4
series without the truly stupid stuff. There's some NFSv3 and other stuff pending, but those who have pending
stuff should all know who they are, and for the rest it's just time to say
nice try, see you in 2.5.x. The pre-2.4.x series will probably go on for a while, but these are the 'bug fixes only' trees. These are also the 'I hope a lot of people test them' trees, because without testing we'll never get to the eventual goal, which is a good and stable 2.4.x in the reasonably near future. Thanks, Linus
How stable is the current devel tree? 2.3.41 was fine for me... but later kernels either failed to compile or crashed on boot. Are we going to see a long pre- cycle, or is it relatively debugged already?
Reiser? Why not Ext3? I do understand that Ext3 is not better then Ext2 with journal, but still...
BTW, did they move to DevFS? Or still the annoying major/minor thingy?
-- Hiroshima '45... Chernobyl '86... Windows '95...
Devfs is in, but still experimental IIRC.
Anyone have any pointers or web sites on getting these pre2.4 kernels up and running? I'm going to try to get it running in Slackware 7. Thankfully, I have VMWare up and running and registered...
---
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com." The purpose of that site was not known. -- MSNBC 10-26-1999 on MS crack
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
one word: xcruise. :P
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
I was just wondering where if the LKML is public
and if so where do you go to subscribe?
I know squat about the kernal, but I've always found
observing mailing lists to be one of the best ways to learn.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
From the looks of Linus's comments, it's only a move from the (currently very slushy) pretty-much-anything-goes-if-it-compiles-feature freeze to a (slightly more frozen) already-announced-but-not-yet-fully-included-feat
I don't believe ReiserFS is included (and neither are ext3 and jfs?), and if it was, as an AC pointed out below, it would be pretty hard to take a screenshot, a benchmark or a time to reboot comparison would be more accurate.
Anyone have any information on how this will integrate with Apache, and any news on a multi-threaded version?
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
NPS Internet Solutions, LLC
www.npsis.com
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
There are about 12-15 linux users at my high school out of a total body of I believe 1000. That's pretty good considering that there were only around half that last school year. I am looking forward to burning a few cds and spreadin them around so that everyone there can get kernel 2.4 asap. 2.4 looks to be a really big step forward because I know at least another guy who wants to try Linux on his laptop, but it is afraid that PCMCIA and stuff like that might not work.
Anyone anxious to take the 2.4 plunge, but wondering what has changed might want to take a look at http://lwn.net/1999/0819/a/wwol2_4.html . It somewhat dated -- August of 1999 (anyone know where to find one more recent?), but hopefully most of its content will still be valid.
--
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
I happened to notice that the latest sources from the creative opensource website for my SBLive! had a tree for 2.4 kernels now. I guess those guys are ramping up as well.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
(yes, I understand the word "irony". Do you understand the words "satire" and "humor"?
Any help around with this?
Hetz (Heunique)
2.3.51 didn't compile for me. make choked on the parport device (undefined reference to parport_pc_init_pci() ). Also, I didn't manage to compile in sound support: the io address, irq and dma aren't stored in .config anymore. Seems to me that 2.4.xx is still quite far off... :-)
OHH YEAH! I've been waiting for 2.4 for a while now!! I can't wait to see full USB support!!! :)
rbf aka pulsar
I remember reading where Linus had said if he was going to put any journalling file system in 2.4, it would be Reiser, simply because it's the only one that has had a lot of testing. SusE has been including it in their distributions, hence the testing.
--
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
In what way will devfs remove the need for the major/minor scheme? As far as I know, devfs only provides a major cleanup of the namespace bloat in /dev. Otherwise, drivers are still referenced by major and minor numbers through the vfs layer.
Poor fools. Windows is already at version 2000. Just more proof that this "Open Sores" crap will never make it in the real world. Come and use a real OS with a real version number sometime.
As far as I remember, getting 2.4 to run with say RH 6.1 is no problem what so ever. Just make dep ... and install with your favorite method. A few apps will be hit with quite substantial modifications of the layout in /proc but usually that will not prevent you from getting the system up and running.
Changing to 2.4 from 2.2 is much easier compared to the transition from 2.0 to 2.2.
If you want to try out devfs, read the docs and install devfsd.
If you do not know how to "get these pre2.4 kernels up and running" you should not be doing it. For those that say there needs to be as many people running these as possible, I say: if a person can't even figure out how to install the kernel, how much help are they going to be in isolating and helpfully reporting bugs?
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
Looking at past development versions I see:
(Ignore stupid typo or date calculations, I got this info from looking at the dates on kernels from kernel.org so I could be wrong)
1.1.13 - May 22 1994 (cant find a 1.1.0 so I'm guessing its about mid-april or there abouts)
1.1.95 - Mar 1 1995
time elapsed: ~11 months
1.3.0 --- Jun 11 1995
1.3.100 - May 9 1996
time elapsed: ~11 months
2.1.0 --- Sep 30 1996
2.1.132 - Dec 22 1998
time elapsed: ~27 months
2.3.0 -- May 11 1999
2.3.51 - Mar 10 2000
time elapsed: ~10 months
So we've run about the typical time elapsed between dev kernel versions but the current kernel version is half that of normal so it makes me wonder if we're ready yet.
.
Wanted: one clue, will accept good to mint condition.
I thought that was already done with oh-some-MS-supporting company (I can look up the name if somebody actualy cares), but not on open source basis :(.
:)). The way it'll help me because I will be able to propose more cost efficient business solutions to potential customers. If I can take their already bought MS transaction server and use it on business tier, put linux on presentation (Web) tier and connect them without much hassle (DCOM comes as a glue) that's what I LIKE. Options for this kind of close integration will be endless.
As far as experimental goes, you should have seen the IE (hooked with MS implementation of COM/DCOM services) on some-NIX boxes chewing up resources faster than 1k memory leak in 1-ms timer code (and that's a lot).
I wasn't experimenting with any of the 2.3.x series kernels (last time I fiddled there was with 2.1.x series), but if you take open source definition of experimental (remember experimental ELF binary support) it will work on this kernel and not on next, and work again on next and so on... But the main point is that it WILL WORK! AND I LOVE IT!
It might be on anyones checklist (I don't care about IT drones anyway, since I'm freelancer), but it'll do magic for ME AS A PROGRAMMER. Like (probably, I hope I'm wrong) most ppl. I make my day to day buck with MS products (let's face it: MS sells no matter what you say or do -- fortunately same goes for linux/GNU/...
As far as dependencies go, linux already has orbit which provides component services and things depend on it. The point is no things depend on it. MS might like it a lot, people around me like it a lot (personally I hate it a lot), but if you take away (D)COM from WinNT platform you basically can't even send 'A' to ASCII printer (Win95 comes off beter by being built on top of DOS and gives you option of doing "echo A > LPT1:" but that's where it ends. You might find it a bit tricky [but not impossible] to send FF that would eject the page). I can strip linux (ANY linux) to core and put it on almost any CPU gifted with reasonable amount of RAM.
Bottom line is that this will give my kind of comunity (day to day people that happen to live off computers) power of choice and this is what's all about! GNU is about choice, Linux is about choice, open source is about choice. I like having choices, options, brain food and http://www.userfriendly.org/! If 2.4.x kernel will give me that or any other choise to think about, I'll be first in line to grab it from nearest mirror!
To boldly invent more hot water.
I was under the impression that COM/DCOM was some sort of an object-oriented system for remote procedure calls (I guess if you're using objects that should be 'remote method calls'..)
CORBA and RPC don't need kernel support. (well, aside from requiring some sort of network layer, but the kernel doesn't have to know about them) What's special about COM that requires it to go in the kernel? Why not put an NFS server and an httpd in the kernel while you're at it..er, nevermind..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Does anyone know what the state of e2compr support in 2.4 will be? I read in Kernel Traffic that it's not ready for the official kernels, but that someone finally explained to the e2compr maintainer how to port it to the new buffer-cache system..but I haven't heard anything that indicates that such porting is actually occuring. I'm starting to think that I may have to decompress my whole hard drive to try this..which may be difficult given that I'm operating close to capacity ;-)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I don't know about ReiserFS and ext3 file systems, but jfs (if you're referring to IBM's jfs) is at such stage that it might appear in 2.5.x series, but probably not at the start of the cycle. Last time I checked the porting page, they were just able to read directories, no chances of even reading files in very-close-future.
It was even mentioned that jfs will cause some major changes deep in kernel and that will probably make it candidate for 2.7.x series more likely than 2.5.x.
To boldly invent more hot water.
I think there has been a lot more rapid development this time. More resources/developers/changes...
A) I could really care less. I use Windows for any 3D stuff.
B) The new kernel better not have nVidia support. OpenGL in the kernel would not be a good thing. (Or are you talking about the hardware independant DRI driver?)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
the mail's always coming in, and you gotta keep movin' it out... it's no wonder most of you people haven't gone in sane... or, have you all....
:P
well I actually am an appreciative linux user
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
It could be argued what is right and what is wrong way to do it. I (for nice example) used to be C/C++ freak programmer (I still prefer C for personal stuff, that I try to write cross platform) and hated all those VB/Delphi/Builder "babies". With time I was forced to use other programming environments and languages and I found out each and every one of them has distinct advantages and handicaps (you just don't get REAL caffeine by drinking de-caf, no matter if you're in NYC or in Calcuta).
... basically all MS. It's just the policy of customer to use MS only stuff. I can't go to the customer and say that all his systems are piece of crap, since I've been working with them for some 8 years now, I can't tell him to trash all his existing solutions so I can bring in one open source solution, I can't make a product that won't interoperate with existing software. That is privilege of MSs, IBMs, Suns and others.
... are just tools to achieve that. Nothing more. No bad PR. If MS doesn't want to comunicate with other solutions, it's their problem. Right now it's my problem as well... If DCOM/Linux takes off, it won't be my problem any more [I still like MS DevStudio though... No Linux viable counterpart yet :(].
At the moment I'm on project involving MS backends, MS tools, MS components,
What I learned is that nothing can be done by hitting your head against the wall. Yes, it might be rotten publicity, but are we employing PR people to take care of our "faces" (used in japanese sense of the word) or are we trying to do something for ourselves! -- Exclamation, not question mark.
I think we're trying to do something for ourselves. KDE has it's licencing quirks, but it's still popular. It obviously didn't die of bad publicity. Gnome has no licencing quirks and it's popular. What's the catch... I can have Corba, I can have DCOM, I can have my own protocols running around wild... The point is that user doesn't care what does it run on as long it runs well. COM, DCOM, Corba,
To boldly invent more hot water.
I think that those people running the dev kernels could enlighten us about a few things. (Those of use who don't use Linux or don't feel like DLing 12 megs of source and ripping out our current kernel.)
1) Is it an FASTER?
2) How is the stability? Since this is a pre release, it better be pretty stable. The 2.2.0pre series laster 10 kernels or so, so this is fairly close to release.
3) Any new features that would warrent upgrading (aside from the afformentioned speed/stability)
I also have another question. What kind of resource usage are we looking at in this kernel compared to the 2.2x series? I say this because I have yet to see a major OS vendor pull a Be and actually make an already memery efficiant systems use even less memory at the same time it added a bunch of features.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I've been sending off subscribe messages every day or two for the last 3 weeks and I STILL haven't gotten a respone back from vger. What's going on?
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Just talking DRI here. As of 2.3.4X only 3dfx and 3DLabs boards may use DRI. However the specs to implement DRI are available for Ati and possibly Matrox. DRI is necessary to give user space processes using Mesa or real OpenGL direct access to the video hardware. When you build a 2.3 kerrnel you'll see what I'm talking about. There's currently no support for Nvidia boards to use the DRI interface. Only Nvidia can enable this because of their hostility regarding open source hardware support. And they haven't been very timely with working Glx modules (try their latest? ugh!) or DRI.
I'd like to know what Nvidia boosters think about the route Nvidia has taken with regard to Linux and open source--are we happy campers? Do we love our closed spec, obfuscated source buddy Nvidia NOW ??? And how do you imagine you'll feel when 2.4.50 comes around enabling, say fast journalling and other goodies, but changes to the DRI interface break direct rendering for Nvidia hardware again? And no one but Nvidia can remedy the situation ? Well Be-fan you may go back to using Windows and be happy, but Windows has no place on my drives.
Maybe Nvidia based hw has no place in an Open Source system.
Are they going to integrate the code for the Netfilter modules into Linux 2.4 or do people need to download/compile/install separate Netfilter modules if they want to do some NAT'ing? Somewhere I read that the Netfilter team goal is to get it into 2.4 but the current version (0.1.18) doesn't even compile with kernel 2.3.51 source. I guess they have to hurry up if we want to have NAT support out-of-the-box for 2.4...
One of the things that was a big headache for a lot of people going from 2.0 to 2.2 was firewalls.
Well one of the changes that people don't appear to be aware of was that it was completely rewritten again.
But relax, the new stuff was designed to be something to be easy to develop stuff on top of. So 2.4's firewall code will transparently work both like 2.2 and like 2.0 did, and there are hooks to do virtually anything you want.
But still if you want to find out what changed, wander on over to the Netfilter page.
Cheers,
Ben
My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
If you don't care about Linux, and you don't know what XFree86 is, then what kind of nerd are you supposed to be? Tell us WHAT YOU would want to see on Slashdot. and if you don't want to hear stories on certain subjects, there are ways of moderating them down in the preferences, so stop whining. If you don't like it, go someplace else. yeesh
I believe that Slackware is now kept at ftp.freesoftware.com
It has all to do with all the Walnut Creek and the BSD merger stuff...
Johnny O
In the documentation on Corel's Linux website, they mention that "UDMA66 support" will not be available until the "2.4 kernel."
Does anyone know if this means Linux 2.4 will be the first version with built-in support for Ultra DMA66 hard drives and (hopefully) up to four IDE buses like on the ABIT BE-6/BP-6/BX-6 motherboards?
Crap, I think I accidentally moderated this up! I didn't mean to! Posting to remove it.
OpenBSD has had full USB support for a few months now...
And MS-Windows 98 has had it for over a year. What is your point? This is a Linux article, talking about features in current Linux development is on-topic. Starting "My OS is better then your OS" flamewars is not.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
This probably isn't good enough for Linus, but I've ran with Ext3 for a good four or more months without a hitch. Maybe one, but I blame it on a HD's last days. I replaced it and all is well since. For heavy duty testing, I'd say rpmfind.net would qualify, though I'm not sure how old the message is on the front page. If any of you know what you're doing, and wondered about ext3, I'd say give it a whirl, no more 15-minute fscks when the power to my apartment goes out. ;)
A) I don't use Be for 3d stuff because it doesn't have HW accelerated 3D for anything but 3dfx; Just like Linux.
B) I don't like using windows for 3D, but it has the only usable 3D modlers out there. (BTW the guy who designed the Blender interface was on crack.)
C) I love our closed spec obfuscated source buddy nVidia still. I'm a pretty happy camper. My card runs fast as hell, and I have no religious attachment to Linux/Be/etc.
D) I think you missed the subtlety abou the DRI thing. They only DRI compenent that goes in the kernel is the DRI kernel driver. That is accelerator non-specific. Thus it will work with any card, it is just a system for the DRI driver to communicate through the kernel. It is a symantical thing, no DRI support for a particular card acutally goes in the kernel, it is loaded by the X server which uses the hardware independant kernel driver to talk to the hardware. I really don't care if Linux has no place on your drive. If you aren't willing to use a GeForce just because it doesn't run on your precious Linux, thats your problem. Don't, however, blame nVidia for it. Their product kicks ass. Have you ever run 3D Studio on a GeForce? You'd think you were on an SGI! They will have accel. OpenGL on Linux soon. If you have some problem with it being closed source and propriotry, fine. But I'm just sitting here waiting for Redhat 7 and nVidia's super tweeked OpenGL support. (BTW nVidia's drivers won't use DRI.)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
> Windows is already at version 2000.
So what? I seem to remember reading somewhere about a 68000 version of Linux, which would be, like, 34 times cooler and more up-to-date.
But for really a unbeatable version number I don't see anybody anytime soon topping Google.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
Geez, sorry. I'm using someone else's weird trackball, and I thought I had clicked it down and had not. Combined with the fact that Slasdot was actually being responsive, I didn't have time to cancel when I saw that. Maybe +1 should not be default.
If a person cannot figure out how to read and assimiliate the abundance of information regarding the downloading, configuration, and installation of either the Stable or Development kernels, what I said above still applies. If they can figure out how to do that, then they know how to compile and install a development kernel, and consequently, what I originally said would not apply to them anyway.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
The LKML is very high volume - you might want to look at the archives first. Another *EXCELLENT* site is Kernel Traffic, http://kt.opensrc.org, where the main topics are summed up each week. Do yourself a favour and start over there.
*borkborkbork*
I do hope Linus accepts this last minute reiserfs addition. This is one component that would be of great benefit to Linux.
http://marc.theai msgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=95276159801406&w=2
List: linux-kernel
Subject: Re: Linux-2.3.51, and the pre-2.4 series..(can reiserfs get in?)
From: Hans Reiser
Date: 2000-03-10 20:59:05
We now have a working port of reiserfs for 2.3.49, and I am not sure whether you consider us pending. Can reiserfs get in? Putting us in as an experimental file system until we are accepted by the community as known stable is just fine.
Our 2.2 version seems to be accepted by the users on our reiserfs mailing list as stable.
We'll port it to the new 2.3.51 starting immediately, the 2.3.49 version will hit our webserver in a few hours.
Sorry we tweaked longer than we should have, and created inconvenience for you.
Hans
Please, no one take offense, not even (or perhaps especially, given the size of that gun) the American Far Right. ;-)
Please note that in the Real World (Patent Pending), both Chernobyl and, I suppose, (some of) Hiroshima/Nagasaki have my sympathy.
Who owns the patent to the Matrix, anyway?
He who fights and runs away,
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
screenshots of the latest kernel with half naked chicks in the background are at kernel.themes.org
i thought I had no sig?
kinda creepy how we're moving into 2.4 when our latest stable kernel is 2.2.14.
-ijx.
If you don't care about Linux, and you don't know what XFree86 is, then what kind of nerd are you supposed to be? Tell us WHAT YOU would want to see on Slashdot.
News on Star Trek.
Now if they can just get the crypto support working, I might upgrade. The last working kerneli patch was for 2.2.13.
Agreed. Encryption support should be in the base kernel, and it's a pain that it can't be because of politics/paranoia. I've upgraded anyway to fiddle around with USB and the improved firewall support.
Does anyone want to comment on doing the modifications to a new kernel themselves? In general, does it require detailed knowledge of the kernel or is it mostly a cut-and-paste operation?
(Yes, I realize that it depends on the kernel...I'm interested in knowing the general case.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
>If you don't care about Linux, and you don't know what XFree86 is,
>then what kind of nerd are you supposed to be? Tell us WHAT YOU would
>want to see on Slashdot.
> News on Star Trek.
The lastest news is that the Minbari has just declared a jihad against the Federation after Wesley Crusher somehow managed to appear on Mimbar...
2.4 approach
Like axeman before sunrise,
Glimmering faintly.
If I had any mod points I'd mod this up... whoever moded this comment down needs their head examined. COM and DCOM are one of few technologies to come out of MS that are actually quite good - even tho they take a bit of setting up.
>How in God's name can you take screenshots of a file system?
/dev/fb1
Make one in a linear framebuffer device:
/sbin/mke2fs -m0
dd if=/dev/fb1 of=/tmp/fb-image.raw
HTH,
Roger
Nope, that's not it. I even went so far as to check ALL the MX records for my ISP's domain and none of them are in ORBS. Any other ideas?
--
Linux MAPI Server!
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(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Do you have to load the soundcore module first in debian? Just a bit curious. Basically I added this to my /etc/conf.modules
alias sound soundcore
post-install sound insmod emu10k1
And my sound starts up fine. I would like to look at that script though cause right now I just load gmix when I start X and it restores settings just fine but it would be nice to have it done after the module is loaded.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
There is a reason Matrox, ati and 3dfx have taken the pledge to be open. They are either tiny in the case of Matrox, or dying in the case of ATI and 3Dfx. A market leader has no real incentive to support Linux until it becomes big. And when it does, they still won't need to open the source. Corperate users really don't have the time/resources to hack a graphics driver. Second, I'm pretty sure the nVida GL will not use DRI. They made a statement that DRI was not exactly appropriate for their graphics pipelines. Most likely, it wil just be a patch to the kernel. I don't play Quake that often. I do, however, have a problem with not using my hardware to its 100% just because some OSS guys want their precious, divinly inspired idea to succeed. Hey, there is nothing ethically ambigious about my point. I could care less if their wasn't a single Open Source driver on Linux. You may, and I have nothing against that. I just want my hardware to work, and work at 100%.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Regardless, the very process by which one would make the 2.3 kernel stable would produce a kernel for the 2.4 kernel tree, and consequently be a Stable kernel.
If all you want is USB support, there are patches to add USB support to the current Stable kernel, if you just look around for them.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
Does anyone know what kernel is likely to be in Red Hat 6.2? What about other upcoming distros? What Version of Xfree is likely to be included?
I do not want to get into a discussion of
Nabokov, mainly because it is not my field.
Nonetheless, Sirin's important works,
e.g. Mashen'ka, Invitation to Execution and
Luzhin's Defense were written in Russian.
True, he translated his own works into English,
but the original writings were in Russian and
from what I understand, bear an imprint of
Russian literary style even in translation.
Some writings, like Camera Obscura were rewritten
to a larger extent such that even its name
cannot be recognized in English translation,
("Laughter in the Dark"). Incidentally, Nabokov
also wrote in French.
Nabokov himself made the point I was trying to
make when he said: "Desperate Russian critics,
trying hard to find an Influence and to pigeonhole
my own novels, have once or twice linked me up
with Gogol, but when they looked again I had
untied the knots and the box was empty."
This is a specific case of denial of cumulative
progress in humanities. It doesn't make
humanities less valuable but it makes the
humanities side of "academia" and "scholarly
journals" pointless.
As for psychology, it's major goal as a science
is to be able to tell what a given person would
do if put in a particular situation, and to be
able to guide or direct a given person toward a
given set of responses. So far neither goal has
been achieved or even approached from a promising
direction. Freud for instance was quick to
acknoledge that his "models" were only useful
so long as we didn't have detailed understanding
of how brain works. In other words, they weren't
useful. And precisely because these people
didn't have an idea of how the brain worked on
a molecular level, they did not know what they
were talking about, by definition. This applies
to all people in the field, who do not study
brain structure. It is important to realize that
people who study human behavior, without studying
the chemistry and physics of it are basically
wasting time.
I think Skinner's opinion of a typical physics
paper might have been: "I don't get it". I would
trust that statement. However I resent the idea
that only professionals in the field can judge
the fields state of progress. Anyone who spends
several months seriously studying the field
should be able to express their own opinion
and expect it to be respected.
Finally, calling science a religion is not new.
During the French revolution, a bunch of psychos
governing the country, proclaimed Reason their
god. Any belief can be called religious.
I certainly beleive that the world we perceive can
be understood in terms of fundamental physical
laws, expressed in the language of mathematics.
This belief is not a dogma, but so far, there is
no counter-example.
Well, so long as there is no claim to
objectivity or impartiality, I guess
having editors would represent added value.
I hit Enter to go to the next line, and !#$!#ing IE thought I obviously meant to Submit.
/etc/conf.modules get wiped out when you do a update-modules (some package installations may do that, possibly the kerenel package; I don't know). Make all local changes in /etc/modutils/(whatever file is appropriate). It does what is equivalent to a run-parts in that directory, except it filters by architecture.
/etc/modutils/aliases: alias sound emu10k1 and in /etc/modules (this does not get update-modules-ized AFAIK): sound And you should be set.
Here:
1. All changes to
2. Depmod should handle all module dependancies, and when modprobe comes and loads the sound module, it'll see the dependancy, and automagically load the depended-on module first. Instead, in
3. See the other response to my comment for a real Debian package that does the same thing as my script.
Kenneth
PS - And I didn't mean to make it Score +1 either.
From actually doing what I have described in this subthread, I have found that it is probably best to use a post-install anyway, but for a different purpose. Here's some short excerpts of my conffiles:
/etc/modutils/emu10k1:
post-install /etc/init.d/sound start /etc/init.d/sound stop
pre-remove
/etc/modutils/aliases:
[snip]
alias sound emu10k1
alias char-major-14 emu10k1
In the above, /etc/init.d/sound is my little sound setting saver script. Replace as necessary for whatever script you use (but I do recommend some sort of script; it can get pretty annoying when you set your sound volumes just right, quit your mixer, and your sound module unloads a minute later and when you play some music it blasts your ears out).
I needed to alias char-major-14 (/dev/dsp* etc.) because kmod doesn't automatically modprobe sound. Or does it? Anyway, mpg123 says "can't open /dev/dsp*", so I had to do that.
Email me if you don't have an appropriate script and want one that some 14-year-old hacker [me] put together in 30 seconds.
You Dork!
I just want my hardware to work, and work at 100%.
How? Suppose kernel 2.4 appears tomorrow, how long before any updates required to the GF drivers are made? For each and every subsequent kernel update, would Nvidia bother fixing or optimising their driver? Will you be forced into choosing between the kernel you want or maximum graphics performance. If some of your other hardware requires an update for maximum performance.......... What about riva tnt support now? Will it be updated as the newest product is, or resigned to the scrapheap. Even if they open the source of a product when they consider it obsolete, a large amount of time would be required for the open source community to understand how the closed source developrs had worked, and how many hackers will be willing to plunge into a corporations source code for an "old" product? You can be sure that it will not be near as many as will attack the driver of the latest and greatest hardware.
You say you are happy with Nvidia's route, and wish to use your hardware 100%, but what about dvd acceleration, video output and inputs. When are Nvidia going to address these issues? Never! Someday a new piece of hardware will appear which they will develop a driver for to provide these functions, but you'll have to upgrade.
I hope you are a rich man, as you allegiance to a hardware manufacturer who is treating the open source movement with such disdain will see you spending vast amounts of money while you are frustrated by the choices closed from you by their lack of source distribution. In the meantime, those who can see beyond the surface and present case know that they will be best served by purchasing hardware which does not require propriety code. They will gain longterm stability, flexability and performance.
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source