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WordPerfect Office 2000 - Now Shipping
Corel has announced that Corel WordPerfectOffice 2000 for Linux is now shipping. You can find all the details about what each version includes at the URL above. Here is a link with a review of Wordperfect 2000 for Linux. Oh, they also include in the package this little cute bean-filled penguin. I read the review and I'm not sure if this shipping date isn't a bit too early though.
I don't want it. Anything commercial that's based on QT is not for me. They should have chosen GTK. That's my 2.
What I've been trying to find out forever (even contacted Corel by email, but got no reply) is whether Corel Office actually includes an email client! I've been waiting for an outlook-like "all in one contact/calender/email program" and although there are projects like evolution in the works, they still seem to be a way off. This is what Corel writes about its CorelCentral program:
... but no mention of email! Anyone out there know whether it does *good* email?
Personal Information Management
- Plan your daily schedule, write reminders, organize reference information and manage corporate contacts.
- Get to meetings on time-your appointment reminders can be equipped with sound alarms.
- PalmPilot[tm] Synchronization lets you synchronize the Calendar, Event and Task Lists, Address Book and Memo applications.
Sounds great
It appears from the screenshots that like all prior versions of WP for unix and linux, this one uses the ugly (and clumsy) motif interface. Sorry, but the people at Corel still just don't get it. After having used the Amiga, Os2's Presentation Manager, various incarnations of Windows 3.x and 9x and more modern gui toolkits for unix and linux like kde with qt and gtk apps, I would NEVER use an application that uses the clunky, monumentally ugly motif interface unless no other tools were available to get the job done. Neither would any other user who has tried anything else. While I have been forced to use Netscape 4.x (a motif app) with Linux for some time, I don't like to use it, but use the much simpler and more attractive kfm for most ordinary internet tasks (it can't do a few things Netscape can do, but can do most) with Linux or even IE5 with Windows. Word Perfect 5.x for DOS was a great product. Since then, everything Word Perfect has done has been a failed attempt to compete with MS Word in adding more bloat and features with little or no sense of overall design or respect for the native systems being ported to. The unix/linux port has always been a poor imitation of an imitation of MS Word for Microsoft Windows. The OS2 and Amiga ports promised much but were abandoned early despite loud protests from Amiga and OS2 users. The failure of Word Perfect to support Amiga and Os2 contributed as much as anything to the decline of these systems (I used both). Folks, Corel is just trying to cash in on the Linux craze in that same way it has tried to recover from its loses to Microsoft Word and Microsoft Office with token releases for other systems. Don't support Corel/Word Perfect by purchasing its products for Linux. Instead, support open source efforts like Kde and Gnome and Abi which are making a sincere effort to meet the needs of Linux users and which are being developed by people who actually use linux. Let Corel/Word Perfect continue to lose market share to Microsoft Word and let it die. Good riddance!
You can use the Internet install to get the CAB files, and install locally from those.
Microsoft also sells IE5 on CD-ROM. Not one file, but one directory.
I went to corel's site. There is no mention of office 2000 in shipment. Furthermore, I am a beta tester of the office 2K suite. I haven't even received the release canidate yet!!!
Lotus Approach has been end-of-lifed. You aren't doing anyone any favors by recommending it.
(Too bad, because it has a fan base. Pretty much every third party 'desktop database' program has stopped selling, except Filemaker.)
I hadn't heard that. NBL (not bloody likely), but 'twould be nice if Lotus would release the code under an acceptable Open Source license so that we coders could make it fly in Linux, xBSD's, etc. don't you think?
WPO2k works FINE in XFree4 It works FINE with XFree4's TrueType.
These so-called "usability" tests were made by either M$-Owned labs (And THAT makes for an objective review), or magazines that have always favored M$ programs over anything else. As for having an "ugly" interface - When was the last time you have seen the WP interface?!? WP5.1?!? The interface is hands-down the easiest word-processor that I've ever used.
Well, excuse me mister WP-lover. I wasn't saying anything about the usability tests you had assumed I was talking about, I was talking about my personal experiance of WordPerfect. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm parroting some company line. And again, same with the interface.
It's zealots like you who can't stand to hear an honest criticism which prevent Linux from having top-class applications.
Well isn't that great
Well crackhead, If you actually READ my post, I didn't say "don't buy linux software" I was just commenting on how gay it is, that all these new "late in the game" Linux companies are touting a cute little Pengiun with their logs to let you know how l33t and kewl they are. If they go out of their way to show a cute little pinguin in the ad, I won't buy the product.
What are you talking about? If you are cheap you run Windows like all those pirates. You don't think scriptie kids actually buy anything do you? Lets me honest 99% of Microsoft users are stealing some software. The other 1% work for Microsoft.
Me too. Hell just port over the old OS/2 stuff. It's still better then anything from Uncle Bill.
not to mention footnotes! It just doesn's work in MS Word!
I found this comment interesting. "When Corel Corporation successfully ported their WordPerfect 8 to Linux, the general public began to take notice of this scrappy little operating system from Finland" Wow, I'm glad Corel was here to open the world up to Linux. LOL Pat yourself on the back some more Corel. If anything, Linux may save Corel's ass. And lastly, I don't know a lot of a lot of frustrated Linux users complaining about their favorite windows programs not running on Linux. we've been using Wine long before Corel was here to introduce us to Linux :P I personally won't buy any linux product that touts a penguin as their logo. lame
Um.... Were you aware that Corel 2000/WIN *HAS* VBA? (Not sure about the Linux version - probably some licensing issue with M$ will say no.) And, the Windows/Linux version also has its *OWN* scripting language as well- for the entire suite. Has for years. VBA's 'big' thing going for it is the 'VB' kick that some Win32 programmers seem to think is the wave of the future. And Paradox links to Sybase / Oracle quite nicely.
Table editing, for example, has always driven me batty in MS-Word, WordPerfect isn't totally perfect there either, but better than MS-Word. Multicolumn layouts, maddening in MS-Word (no matter how I try to drag them around, they never space out the way I want), also better in WordPerfect. Multilevel bulleted lists, absoluetely horrific in MS-Word, works the way I would expect things to work in WordPerfect. I actually often do mulicolumn layouts with multilevel bulleted lists. Tables: nope. Columns: yep. Bulleted lists: nope. WordPerfect is better with columns. Word is better at tables and bullted lists, however there is a learning curve. It is not initially intuitive, but once learned, it is a very useful tool. For my money, even if I had to use Windows at home, I'd pick WordPerfect over MS-Word, and I personally hated WordPerfect prior to WordPerfect 6. I've used both 6 and 8 and been quite happy with them Odd, I think most people liked WP5.1 and started to dislike it when they poorly attempted the GUI. WP5.1 was incredibly useful and fast (although there was a nasty learning curve with all the ctrl-alt-shift-Fx crap). Personally, I will be very happy to see WPO2K turn out great for Linux. MS sent me a nice, free copy of O2K and it is the thing that really keeps me out of linux. I think (hope) that this will get a lot more people into linux more than they are. If you're like me, you have to do documents and spreadsheets, and you can't just send someone a damn .xml file. As cool as XML is, I need to be able to save as .xls. (And don't mention StarOffice - that windowmanager in a window thing drives me nuts).
There were lots, and lots of bugs reported in Beta 2. Even assuming that Corel fixed all bugs in beta 2, who knows how many more were unfound, because the beta testers couldn't test what's shipping?
That's not counting bugs reported after WPO2k was released to manufacturing.
Wow. It runs IE5 now, even a little?
I should try to debug the installer, and send them some notes about it, I think it still dies on something stupid and network-related.
(Is IE5 always an internet install? Where can I find IE5, by itself, totally in one file that extracts and installs onto a hard drive?)
WP2000 /sindows is also a big suite; it weighs in at 262 MB- The thing to remember is that the 500MB is plenty of Clipart, Fonts, Sound Effects, textures, etc. In fact, I seem to remember a M$ product that has an entire CD's worth of such things. Does that make M$ office 2000 a 1 GB suite?!? No- just the fonts, etc you can add can add a lot. It's not 'program' bloat- it's just an abundance of font/clipart libraries. Which aren't needed at ALL to run the suite.
Until then: StarOffice gets my vote. It, unlike WP, does not discriminate based on the OS, or version of OS, that you prefer to run.
CorelDRAW shouldn't be compared to Photoshop. CorelDRAW is a vector-based drawing application comparable to Illustrator. (By the way, check out Xara at http://www.xara.com . Xara is much better and super faster than either CorelDraw or Illustrator!)
Corel PhotoPaint is comparable to Photoshop. Both are bitmap, pixel-based image editing and manipulating apps. And both can be compared to the Gimp.
I happen to think that PhotoPaint is way more powerful and versatile than the Gimp, and way more easier to use than the Gimp and Photoshop.
I'm looking forward to seeing Corel apps on Linux!
Your understanding is wrong. It's an actual Windows EXE, not using winelib. (I hear they still have plans to use winelib in the future, but for the moment, it's not.)
and I don't know if I agree with your comments.
Beta 1 was really, really buggy and unstable. Beta 2 was much, much better.
There were still bugs in Beta 2 -- but most of the bugs I found were relatively small. There were some big things (as of beta 2 PDF creation didn't work, as far as I could tell) but all in all it worked very well.
Further, as of beta 2 it was also pretty FAST. I was really impressed with the speed of it... it'll blow you away, especially if you've been using Star Office.
I would have preferred they release another beta first... I think that would have made a lot more sense. However, it's entirely possible they "fixed everything". I'm sure there will still be bugs, but...
I dunno, I was pretty impressed with beta 2.
Add Corel Draw and you have a seriously effective system for offices
Except for the fact it's COREL!!!
corel should crawl under a porch and die
USB code has been backported into 2.2.14 kernels for Mandrake 7 and for SuSE 6.3, and is available with limited functionality and no guarantees. Then again, 2.4.x is just around the corner...
I love Linux and I worship Linus, but I still couldn't use Linux it as my desktop. The reason, as you know, is the lack of application programs. WordPerfect 2000 will completely change this. I am 100% sure the first version for Linux will NOT be perfect. But the most important order of busniess is to get it out of the door. I am not crazy enough to believe that I will be able to move everything to Linux overnight--this will take some time. What I want/expect from the first version of WordPerfect2000 for Linux is something that will showcase the traditional rich features of WordPerfect but I don't expect it to be perfect. In the meantime, I will be more fully prepared and getting ready, while Corel is finetuning its Linux suite, for the coming of a true Linux desktop. BTW, which is a better office suite, Microsoft Office or WordPerfect? I am a small business owner, and cannot afford to use something that is not absolutely the best (because I have to service my own computing needs). We switched to MS Office at one time, because "everyone else seems to be doing that." Within six months, we had to switch back to WordPerfect, not only that WordPerfect is so much better (for example, the reveal code), but also because of some of the major concerns over using MS Office (macro virus, unclean deletion, etc.) Kudos for Corel! Pretty soon, we have to change the slogan to: Corel: The Mother of all Desktops!
it also comes with 2000 bowls of hot grits. you can pour them down 2000 different pairs of pants, or you can pour all 2000 down one pair of pants. thank you.
I don't understand why people complain about WP 2000. Here is a viable alternative to Microsoft Office. I've used the WordPerfect 9 in WP 2000 and in many ways I've found it to be much more user-friendly, feature-rich, superior than MS Word. Its interface is more intuitive than StarOffice. Actually, Corel adds innovative features not found in MS Word and later copied by Word.
Some nice features I like :
- XML, SGML editing capabilities. Built-in and extended support for Docbook and other XML/SGML documents.
- Reveal codes : Unique feature found in all versions of WP. It's always nice to go under hood to edit the document. Geeks should like this feature.
- Write to PDF format. Built-in support for PDF.
- Real-time preview of fonts. Embedded fonts for document portability.
- Easier table editing, easier multi lists and bullets than Word.
You must be using your ass for your head, cuz as long as you gots an intel-comp. proc. then it will work on all of the recen linux distros, if you don't have that then why are you whining?
The free version apparently doesn't let you add fonts, so I can't use any of the umpteen megabytes of fonts that are served up by xfs (including TrueType fonts). Has this been rectified in WP9?
As anyone who’s ever tried to convert WP documents to any other format knows, it needs a whole slew of special fonts to handle extended characters.
I hope the release is more stable than the beta? If so, this is GOOD NEWS, if not....
Corel will lose their unpaid support when Debian collapses.
Without Debian, Corel will be left exposed as a non-RPM distribution.
Corel will have to port their private KDE extensions or be left behind.
WordPerfect will face competition from KOffice.
...but the problem is that even though the two betas were quite slick, they only did two betas instead of three and no RC1 cycles. IOW and IMO, they did not test it as much as they should and I, amongst others kept telling them "too soon, too soon, you still need to work on it!".
Oh, well, I truly hope that there's no stupid hidden uglies that only wait for a public release to come out in the open. I hope nothing upgly will happen with this release, because it could/will do a lot of dammage not only to Corel but also to Linux's image...
Corel and others see Linux as a MARKET. They are selling product in that market (like Loki, etc.). RedHat, VA, and others are doing likewise. Don't blast these for trying to make a profit (and for contributing technology back to the community).
We do need open source alternatives (good example with Nutscrape). We do have some in the works like the Gnome and KDE desktop apps., but PHB's need the same program as on windows and need a name that is recognized.
Support Corel. Don't blast them with retoric. We need MORE applications, not just free ones. For the base to expand, for us programmers to get paid to hack on Linux, for Linux to be accepted by the PHB's, we NEED COMMERCIAL (read non-open source) SOFTWARE!
My 2 cents....
Easy, simple steps -- yes, even you could do it:-
1. Moderate DOWN all posts questioning or saying negative things about Open Source, no matter how reasonable or accurate they may be.
2. Moderate UP all pro Open Source posts, no matter how stupid or inaccurate.
3. Moderate UP all posts from people saying nice things about VA Linux/Andover/Malda.
4. Watch VA/Andover/Slashdot stock $$$$ rise
and have a really good laugh at all those suckers who let them get away with it.
See: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000317/pa_weinste_1.ht ml
Also send mail to: msgoldman@wksg.com
I'm sorry, but it does. Okay, the feature set seems to be somewhat expanded in this version, but unfortunately the program just seems to fail in the usability stakes with every single release. And it looks nasty as well. If this is the application that is supposed to make people choose Linux over Windows then it looks like we'll all be happily running Windows for ever and using Office, which is still by far the best office suite available.
What is it with Corel trying to jump on the Linux bandwagon? If they carry on like the are currently then all they will ever acheive is losing money and making Linux look like a product designed by 16-year olds in BASIC. First off, they release Corel "Linux", a distro supposedly for simpletons but which crashes every fifteen seconds. Wow, those newbies are going to be well impressed by that aren't they? And now this. Personally I think it's all very nice of them to try, but they're not doing anything for Linux and I wish they'd go back to writing Windows applications, where at least their software would be just as bed as all the rest.
We must have people using Linux products to increase the use of Linux.
You know how people are, they get comfortable with software (word) and they don't want to change. Unless they are offered something much much better.
The last two posts are wrong.. WP 8 and WP 2000 are two seperate things... WP 8 was a TRUE port.. using motif and everything. WP 2000 for linux is mostly a recompile of there windows code but on linux using the Wine libs (and no, not a direct recompile either..).. (I dont know the name of the binary,.. hell it could still have a .exe but it WILL execute,. run 'file' on the binary.) The Wine libs DO however, emulate the win32 (and a few other parts of windows) API.. Meaning WP 2000 is more of a hybrid... but if fact, they CAN link native linux object files into the program.. (actually arent they doing this for there printing stuff?).. (that.. and the winelib IS linux lib..)
report tonight is going to suck (predictions based on track record only, I have no insider knowledge) and they need something to keep investors from jumping ship like fleas from a dead dog. Hopefully the buggy release won't hurt corels long term future with WP on Linux.
please...this is slashdot...mention of kde or koffice, though occasionally permitted, must carry disparagements...otherwise, folks might even get the idea that they could mention how dated rh has become compared to mandrake, or how dumb it is for rh to continue using gnome as its default desktop...remember, dollars are involved...your comments (or mine) could be censored if found dangerous to newly treasured portfolios...
-Phiz
"GNU/Linux" -- this can only mean that you are a pansy-faggot.
100 % agreed I was browsing lotus web site in search for a good office suite on linux, with the lasted news concerning IBM`s commitement to linux I hoped to find something interesting here.. I'm presently using WP8 but it is so UGLY and it handles so BADLY the .doc format that I may switch to Abiword, which is equivalent to wordpad on linux, but with a decents GUI widgets.. Anyway, Lotus rules and I want it on LINUX. (got it Mr. Lotus ?)
+ somone needs to package them (handling part) and that's the most expensive part.
Will MS let Corel use VBA on Linux? NOT!
I thought Tux already had a gas problem!
beware the Turd-Minion Army, good people! Take your garlic with you if you travel. Do not leave home unarmed! They're loose today--hounding every thread with their false cries of "oh i was so hoping X would not be a failure, but alas it is and MS is the winner, winner take all..." Some call themselves Rambone, Some call themslves Be-Fan, some call themsleves TummyX--Beware--their name is Legion!
d'oh-ith! i just looked at the first link, didnt even see the 2nd one :P
"There is no spoon"-Neo, The Matrix
"SPOOOOOOOOON!"-The Tick, The Tick
i know its shallow but id like to see screenshots...did they make it a KDE app or did they just waste their time and make it totally inoperable (as far as drag n drop etc) with anything. i mean they even made a replacement to KFM in kde for their corel linux, but who knows, maybe they just did another mow-teefy-looking (my same general gripe about netscape on linux, doesnt cut-copy-paste with anything else (except using the damn middle-click) and it has NO drag n drop support, plus that damn ugly mow-teef look)
"There is no spoon"-Neo, The Matrix
"SPOOOOOOOOON!"-The Tick, The Tick
Corel draw is like illustrator where as corel photo paint is a cheap immitation and not as nice as photoshop
..........sig...........
i'd put it along the lines of Gimp
The review was based on Beta 1. There were lots of bugs fixed between beta 1 and beta 2 (beta 1 was flatout unusable on some testers systems).
Beta 2 also had a bunch of bugs, and testers haven't seen what's going to be shipped, so who knows what the quality will be.
I currently use StarOffice without any major problems, though I can't stand the all in one app, probably because I'm just not used to it from so many years of the other office packages.
Anyway, back to the point, the more choice we have for office suites the better chance we have of gettign a very robust and easy to use program as now they compete to get us to use it which is always good for us.
I bought it and am satisfied. Now my wife and kids can generate a nice looking document without rebooting to windows.
Anyine else buy it?
It is my understanding that it uses the Wine libraries, not the wine emulator itself. So if this is true, it is not a windows .exe, it is a native Linux executable.
Talk about share^H^H^H^H^Hcrippleware!!
I read the review, but the link just went down; might have been slashdotted :)
If they wanted 100% Microsoft Office compatibility, they'd never release. It's a miracle that they have Access working at all; it has the most proprietary format of all the MS Office apps.
I hope they can make the majority of this work, though. It's very convenient to query databases and have the results pop up in a spreadsheet. In fact, if they can make the ODBC query part stable, I'd be ready to switch.
On the subject of bloat: Nearly 500 meg for an office suite? Spare me the pain of installing that on every PC in my office! I'd rather set up an Office "server" and run it remotely using X or Tarantella. How does the size of this suite compare to Office 2000?
I believe that the internet installer is the only one available from MS. However, you can get IEAK (IE Admin. Kit) "free" (as in beer, of course) - lets you create your own internet-based installer (aimed at ISPs), single-directory installation (for LANs) or a CD-ROM based installation. AFAIK, there is no "single-file" installer available for IE5.
________________________
Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
OK, if you REALLY read the review before posting this, then why didn't you notice that the review was done of a BETA (That means NOT the final release version, since you don't seem to be aware of the meaning of that word.) copy of WPO.
The Adventures of Beaver and Butthead
Beavis^H^Her: Gee, Wally, does that mean that they would actually have bugs in their beta?
Butthead: Uh-huh-huh-huh... You dumbass.
Now the corel offically is releasing WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux this going to open a new arena for Linux companies now. Hopefully corel will be smart and allow it to run on any linux distribution I hate to do reinstall just to install something else. This will help keep linux foot in the door as a desktop replacement for companies and even for people at home now you sell linux computers to people who have limited needs for thier computers with no fear of them having problems finding a Good office software packages they need. This is not the last we will see of this kind of thing. This will be fun to see how this plays out
http://theotherside.com/dvd/
I'm kind of surprised that this doesn't seem to have impacted their stock, not even a little bit. I guess people are waiting on their earnings, expected today. The best press release Corel could hope for at this point would be 'Cowpland Vaporises' or 'Cowpland falls off of a cliff' or something of that nature......
> Or even cooler, the installation program could scan your Windows partition, see what apps you have
> on your Start Menu, and set them up to run from Wine.
The GNOME panel has options to automagically include KDE and AnotherLevel menus. How much effort would it be to add Windows Start menus?
The only real problem is that the Windows shortcuts are in some unintelligle binary format, and rest-assured Microsoft won't just give the specs away...
Ten dollars to ship a CD-ROM? I hope it comes with a printed manual, or something.
Are they perhaps doing something silly, like shipping them all from Canada? I don't know if Corel even has an office in the US, it seems like everything in North America goes out of the Ottawa office. Either that, or they're just trying to make a couple of bucks off of shipping...
Photos of bits of the past hiding in the present: afiler.com
For all the good points of the software Corel owns that used to be Borland (Paradox, Quattro Pro), Lotus' products were better. In consumer-grade database software, for example, I still use and recommend Approach over MS Access, and most people would agree that 1-2-3 is a top-tier spreadsheet. Freelance Graphics might not have had all the connectivity bells and whistles of PowerPoint, but then, I don't usually try to integrate presentations with other Office apps anyway, because the memory footprint has usually meant that the overall presentation would have run too damn slow.
Trouble is, so far the Lotus consumer apps are still tied to the one set of OS's I absolutely will not continue with, that is, Microsoft's. If Lotus wants any more of my money, they'd better get something going on the Linux side of the fence.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Hell I find GIMP the easiest to use. Especially the devel stuff out right now. I've run every build that has come out. I love the tear-away menus. The only think gimp needs I think is Pantone support but I have a feeling that will never happen except via third party plugin. There are some licensing issues or what not around that I think.
It's funny. There's a guy here at work who was starting to use photoshop and I was actually able to help him with a couple of things once I located the menu options. I started out with gimp so I'm not a photoshop kind of guy.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
I think (If im not mistaken) that Corel Draw is a vector based graphics app similar to Illustrator more than to photoshop.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Actually, buying this and Corel Linux (non-deluxe) costs US$159, since the high-end version of Corel Office includes Corel Linux. :-)
Illegitimi non carborundum
I believe Corel had maintained publicly for some time that the first iteration of their suite would depend on Wine, so as to be quicker to market. They would have to be even dumber than Commodore to not create a native Linux version for the next iteration. If for no other reason, native code will be so much faster and more stable.
It's a first step, and the free uber alles zealots can just use the KOffice suite. Choice is good.
Illegitimi non carborundum
If you don't want to pay $14.95 for the CD, just look for a magazine with it on the Coverdisc - like PC world Feb 2000...
Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
Yeah, He could have also used a spell check, or at least got someone else to proof read. I don't think his bio covers up for the fact that like the product reviewed, the review itself seems a little rushed and disjointed.
Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
Same here, I'm simply waiting for WP2000 and Corel DRAW/PhotoPAINT and my life is complete.
If you'd bothered to read this review before posting, you'd see they have screenshots.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
I used to work for corel's tech support department, and this doesn't surprise me at all. When WP2K for windows was released it had so many bugs it was basically unusable for anything but basic wordprocessing. There were features advertised on the box that weren't even in the damn program! The first 2 service packs added up to about 100 megs, and replaced a large chunk of the suite.
I used to be a big fan of corel. I still think they have the best interface and features of any of the big name wordprocessors, but I gave up on them after WP2K and started using word (when in windows of course). Say what you will about microsoft, at least they released office 2000 in a somewhat usable state.
If I were you guys I'd give the linux version of WP a couple of service packs before buying it (or just use something else entirely - waiting for koffice my self).
kms1
Expect to see an all-in-one distro from them soon, corel linux with the office suite included. It seems to me that it would be very consumer oriented - as long as they can undercut MS, which I'm sure they can, they could bust into the home/small business market quite handily.
See you, space cowboy...
Is Corel even going to release a version of WP9 free for educational and non-commercial use in support of the community?
;)
What community is that, I wonder? The shareware community? The WaReZ community? When did our "community" become a bunch of people who only wanted gratis software despite everything else the OS is supposed to stand for?
Quite frankly, Corel Office has nothing to do with the community. They are a company trying to sell freedom-subtracted software to desperate GNU/Linux users.
Yes, you heard me: desperate. Why do you think Corel is developing for GNU/Linux? Looking for another market? No. They know that with our new fragile user-base that they *can* cause our users to depend on their office suite. Unfortunately for them, they will have to do a lot of marketing to defeat our philosophy of Free Software*. Or am I wrong?
Remember a few years ago when we had "The Desktop Wars" ? KDE, at the time, depended on a propietary software library to function at all. Then GNU launched its own desktop project, GNOME, that depended only on Free Software. Now that Qt has relaxed its license, the desktop wars have come to an end.
What this means is that our community values freedom over conveniance. KDE costed nothing then and costs nothing now. GNOME can be purchased from Helix Code. But because of our community both are almost completely Free Software.
Corel has created an OS based of GNU/Linux to run their propietary software. There are a few obvious holes in the GNU/Linux OS. One is Netscape. It is slow, it is buggy, and it has poor support for standards. And there is nothing anyone can do about it because it is propietary. Corel is creating an Office Suite that is propietary. But fear not, it will be seen as another obvious hole in the OS. Corel Office will eventually be replaced.
Yes I am raving evangelist. But I see a thin line in the dirt that too many don't see. Cross that line and we may never find our way back. Once propietary software becomes common we have already given up our freedom. And we have then transformed our OS into something it is not.
* Free Software means Free as in Freedom, has nothing to do with price. For you newbies
Actually you can create a foo.h file that includes everything you need, and parse it with gcc -E -dD foo.h > foo.ph. This outputs the preprocessed code with all the definitions, so when you include it in every file you need, the preprocessor has to do a lot less work.
Many of the incremental linking benefits may be obtained with shared libraries, as described in this article from Dr. Dobbs Journal.
:-)
Of course, I don't know how this would require changes in the Corel's codebase, and probably Wine had to be used anyway, so... but, as you see, these are not real issues with new projects.
Just my 0.03 Euro (damned inflation
As one of the beta testers one of the most dissapointing part of WP2K was that is runs under Wine. Linux has more than enough momentum that it should not have to revert to emulation for major apps. My experiences with it on average user machines (K6 300 to PII 300), are slow and a general feeling that it's out of place.
I was really looking forward to this, but after seeing it I am very disappointed, and probably won't bother to buy it...
$159 for both? Now I definately like that number. That's less than a Win2k Pro license (which I got today for testing under VMWare 2.0)!
:)
I checked out pricing for MS products today. That's even less than MS Select Pricing for Win2K/O2K if you're a business with under 400 people. Plus, unlike the combination of O2K and Win2K, these WILL work together. We ran the two together here, and although they DID work, it just wasn't well. Why wait for a service pack real soon now, when you can get the real thing now?
By the way, I did run Excel and Word 2000 documents in StarOffice 5.1 and WP Beta. Worked flawlessly. Didn't run through Presentations though.
>Are there any mainstream distributions that
>include Wine ready-to-run?
I'm using Mandrake 6.1 right now and it came with Wine inluded...
I use WP2K for Windows and it seems to work great for me - although HTML conversion sucks, at least it doesn't crash as Word often did when I opened HTML...I'm not sure what features on the box you're talking about, but I don't know of anything I can't do...then again, it's possible that I have a CD of the patched version. However, it seems to me that anyone who works tech support will always see a product as being buggy, because they are exposed to every single bug.
Although I *despise* the operating system, one thing that makes the Microsoft Office suite powerful is the VBA scripting glue. Excel is powerful as it has the ability to link in external c/c++ functions.
(...when it works as claimed, and when backwards compatibility isn't broken..)
In any case, it would be _awesome_ if there was a *real* scripting language for the Corel suite, such as python, (not the VBA crap) as well as the ability to link in foreign functions from C. Then, the suite would offer stability, there would be a great deal of synergy between the separate apps (especially paradox/ qpro). It is important to have the ability to bring in info from external databases (like sybase/oracle), or from your own custom defined functions.
For a programmer in a business environment, (trading floor), customization, and linking into external databases/ legacy systems is what its all about.
One point which seems to have been overlooked is that WordPerfect Office 2000's dependency on WINE make it pretty much stuck on the x86 platform. I would really like to be able to run this with LinuxPPC or RedHat/sparc. I wish that corel would have opted for a native port.
With a $150+ price tag I'll will have to wait. Too bad, I was really anticipating this product
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
IIRC Corel licensed VBA from from M$ last year, probably not be totally shunned from the business sector that M$ helds hostage.
However the merger with Inprise/Borland will give the combined company ability to also integrate the Delphi/Kylix scripting capabilities with Corel's Office for Linux and _that_ should make Corel's Office (for Linux or 'doze) a lot more attractive to enterprises.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
VBA's 'big' thing going for it is the 'VB' kick that some Win32 programmers seem to think is the wave of the future.
Not to mention the cool macro virus support.
sig: sauer
If they follow suit, Corel will be releasing SP1 in about 4 weeks after inital release. I've worked with a lot of Corel products (superior to any any office clone, including M$ Office itself IMHO) and found that although well designed, bugs exist. Corel seems to be more concerned about getting a product out, and fixing the bugs later. This makes a shodier product out of the box, but if you wait a month or so after the initial release SP1 will be available, which will fix the major bugs and make a great Office clone. I still prefer it over M$ Office any day. Corel actually attempts to fix the current bugs, not just "fix them in the next release". All things considered, I'll be proud to run this fine office suite on my system.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
IMHO they are beginning to take Linux even more serious then they did when releasing WP 8. WP 8 was very functional and it was a very good move to release it for free. I wonder how many people actually downloaded and/or bought WP 8 for Linux.
But I guess they feel the market is big enough to release a commercial release only (unfortunatly I'm not 100% sure here due to the /. effect) which shows to me that the Linux market is indeed growing and becoming a major player.
Linux not ready for the desktop? I still agree on that point but movements like this are sure pushing it in the right direction.
If you had bothered to read the press release, you would have found out that Corel Linux, Download Edition is being bundled with Office. Also, the Standard/Deluxe versions of Corel Linux come with Corel WordPerfect 8, Download Edition.
This is as it should be, at least from a marketing perspective. Buy the OS and get a real word processor. Buy the Office Suite and get an OS to run it. If you want the high caliber OS <i>and</i> the high caliber office suite, then buy them both.
Buy them both? Why would I do that? I'll just buy Windows...and Office...oh, I get it now.
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
While I have to confess to not being a fan of Word Perfect (I prefer Lotus Word Pro or Star Office), this is incredibly significant.
Someone's already said that if Corel Draw were to be added to this it would be a serious package for a Linux based office. I think it is as it stands.
Yes, in Star Office and ApplixWare Linux already has two integrated office suites, but irrespective of how good/bad/etc you may consider these packages, neither has quite the mainstream commercial significance as Corel.
With certain Lotus software already being ported to Linux, could it only be a matter of time before the only one of the 'Big Three' office suites missing is MS Office? I hope so, SmartSuite on Linux would go down very well in my book.
--
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
You also have to figure in the labor they pay some to pack it, the labor they have to pay some to give it to the ups guy. Also it cost money to process your order. The cost of the packageing. Plus the Credit Card company gets 3% of the total transaction. I say $10 is about what the shipping and HANDLING cost. You have to remeber all the little costs or you will go broke fast.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
In the article, the reviewer mentions that WP2000 has a 467MB Memory footprint. I think he means disk space :)
I wish that journalists would at least take the time to proofread their articles...sheesh.
I'm actually very cruious to hear some comments from some of the BETA testers out there. They are the ones that have been running it, and have a the best feel for WordPerfect Office 2000 for linux. I'm curious how they feel it turned out? Is there really a problem with it running under winelib (if I'm wrong please correct me), and basically do they feel that it is worth it to buy? Don't get me wrong I'm all for companys porting their products to linux but I mean if a program port is crummy to begin with and there is something else better out there (not that I've seen much better StarOffice has a HORRIBLE interface emulating a Windows Desktop, and Abiword isn't even in the same class as desktop publishing suites. I'm sorry a college student needs something like that, something reliable and compatible with everything else) then I'm going to go with the better program despite cost. Soooo if someone that has the beta could write up their feelings on the review and post them (and perhaps a couple screenshots that we can actually see something of the interface from?) I for one would be greatful, and it would help me in a decision to purchase it.
No, you're not alone. IMHO, the best word processor ever is TeX -- I can type papers quickly in a old 486 notebook, and still get unbeatable quality when printing them.
TeX, the GIMP, xv and octave make my "office" package. Ill never install StarOffice, MS Office or whatever in my computer.
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...Microsoft (tm) Office for Linux. Just wait.
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That comes back to one thing that I find somewhat inconsistent of OSS software- the programs they release as 'beta' are usually fully-functional, and nearly bug-free. Only a few bugs need ironing out.
Whereas Commercial software Betas are EXACTLY that- they ARE riddled with bugs, inconsistencies, performance problems, etc. Why do you think that the Beta testing is usually a fairly "closed" deal- with only select people testing? I certainly don't expect to go to the store and buy a "BETA" version of any other program. The Beta releases are released to find & squash bugs- not show off the program for reviewers.
And, OSS programmers use good judgement in waiting until the software is fairly bug-free before releasing it. A lot of newbie OSS zealots (who don't seem to realize that 1.) The 'beta' software they get is like a final 'beta' for commercial software, and 2.) Open Source software isn't necessarily released to the public until the programmers feel it's almost to the release point anyway. I can't count all the complaints I've seen from people who want some project they've heard of "NOW" even though it isn't finished, nor functional, etc. They want to 'test' it- when they really don't know what REAL software testing is. They're used to these nearly-fully-functional beta releases you see from GNOME, GIMP, etc.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Now Corel tries to make it in the Linux space with a disto full of closed source additions and every possible peice of open source software that is not free (liberty). What a parasite approach so far. (No, I don't think their involvment in whine should excuse all of this.)
I was on part of the beta test and I do believe its being shipped too early. The beta testers only recieved up to Beta 2. Considering XFree86 4.0 was released only recently I wonder if anyone bothered to test WPO2K again it. And considering 2.4 kernel is going to be released in the near future I can only imagine some of the problems that will be encountered. Overall I think its a good product I would have liked to seen it go through at least one more beta test. One thing I hate is the Fonttastic font server that ships with WPO2K. Espically now that XFree86 4.0 comes with its own TrueType font server there is no need to ship a seperate font server just for the fonts corel ships.
Remember, 99 out of 100 computer users don't know what half the functions in MS Paint are.
kwsNI
Add Corel Draw and you have a seriously effective system for offices...
Kudos to Corel
...Upgrade now to Schrodingers Dog...
Smartsuite and Corel Draw are the only apps I keep a WIn9X machine around - personally. I've got 5 years of work in WordPro and 123 format and I don't fancy converting every file piece by piece!
I liked WP8 for Linux but I didn't think it was a "killer" app - it was nice, but didn't really fire me up (personal opinion) - plus with no Lotus import filters I was stuck.
I think before long Lotus will have to look at their market share in the WIN market and do something to make a real difference.
When parent company IBM is falling over backwards for Linux surely Lotus (who have ported Domino) cannot be far behind with Smartsuite.
Perhaps that could be a good campaign to start - Smartsuite Millenium for Linux. Again, I don't mind paying for software if it helps further the Linux cause.
...Upgrade now to Schrodingers Dog...
Use Cheapbytes or LSL or one of the other discount places if you want to save a couple $$. They should have it available soon. If you need a manual I'll cost extra, though I don't see the need.
Cheapbytes, btw, sells RedHat 6.1 for $1.99 + $5 shipping (U.S.). Most other CDs, or multi-packs, cost $5-$14 + $5-$23 shipping.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
What about a generic gzipped tarball? I haven't found .deb support in Slackware and .rpm just doesn't work when you don't use it to install everything.
Beta 2 was sent to testers on Feb 23, I really wonder just how many of the bugs were fixed between then and this "final" release. Guess we'll be waiting for some patches or a service pack.
I've always liked the Motif interface to Applix, and the news of a GTK-based, overhauled version (possibly 5.0) coming soon is very welcome.
Yeah, something's a tad wrong when the only affordable way for me to use an office suite on my workstation (SGI), is to fire up Applixware on a linux box and DISPLAY it over.
I haven't played with Star Office too much, is there a way to "break it apart"? I don't care much for its 'desktop' and that start button.
Speaking as a beta-tester, this product is nowhere near ready to ship. Basic summary is that it's just WP2K for WinNT compiled against WINE.
Yep, that's right. Those of you who've used WINE know what that means.
If I were doing quality control for Corel, I would have done at least 2 more beta rounds. I've currently got 20 open bug reports with them that haven't been fixed, for example, and the regression between beta rounds has been atrocious (files which opened in Beta 1 would crash Beta 2, for example).
I guess the person who wrote the review meant hard disk space usage. A memory footprint of >400 MB would blow away most machines, especially the one the tester used (with 96 MB of RAM), swapping them to death :)
I doubt Corel ported it themselves. Much more likely is that they just used the usb backport by Vojtech Pavlik:
usb backport to 2.2Another useful URL:
Linux USB projectWhen I downloaded the free version of WP8 for Linux earlier this year (last year? damn time moves fast), I noticed that WordPerfect used their own font directory and 'fonts.dir' system for the application. The free version apparently doesn't let you add fonts, so I can't use any of the umpteen megabytes of fonts that are served up by xfs (including TrueType fonts). Has this been rectified in WP9?
Is Corel even going to release a version of WP9 free for educational and non-commercial use in support of the community?
Is there a trial version of the Corel Office for Linux? I an not a free-software zealot and I wouldn't mind paying for Corel Office. If it's a good product that is. But I cannot justify spending even a penny for something that just barely runs. And that's why I want a trial version.
Corel WP8 for Linux was a complete joke. I could not believe they were actually trying to sell the thing. Corel Linux is also a joke. I used it for about 2 days and that was enough for me. Once again, I could not believe somebody would actually pay money for this garbage. And now, several posters have said that the long-awaited Corel Office for Linux is nothing more than the win32 version linked against WINE with little or no testing done. So, is there a trial version? I want to see for myself. Also, please reply with your experience using Corel Office. (But don't bother to reply if you've never used it before).
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Sounds like Wine is getting to the point where it could be ready for end-users. At least, ready for end-users who need to run a particular application and don't mind if it breaks occasionally.
Dosemu was at this stage for a long while before 1.0 came out, and distributions like RedHat included it. Are there any mainstream distributions that include Wine ready-to-run? Ideally, a Windows application would just appear on the programs menu like any other. You could run it using the binfmt_misc kernel module to start wine automatically.
Or even cooler, the installation program could scan your Windows partition, see what apps you have on your Start Menu, and set them up to run from Wine.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I totally agree with you. I love LyX, LaTeX, GIMP, XV, ImageMagick, NEdit, etc. I prefer to make my presentations in png and html, I don't use spreadsheets much, if I did, I'd use Gnumeric, and gnome-pim is as good or better as any, the KDE versions are equally excellent.
However, there comes times when one must open, edit and save MS files, like Word and Powerpoint. So one must have something that can do conversions.
Take it from me, as I've tried everything on all platforms. Applixware on FreeBSD is absolutely the fastest, most stable, most excellent office suite available. It amazingly seems to use no memory when you fire it up. Anyone who thinks StarOffice is fast and stable has way more money for hardware than anyone I know, everyone I've talked to who've used WP8 for Linux thinks that the font rendering is so shitty as to render it useless at times.
I personally anticipate the release of KDE2 and KOffice. These are going to rock the office software world for sure. Then, the GNOME guys will just make it all look prettier and that's what I'll use. Until then, it's FreeBSD on my laptop, and Linux on my workstation (paradoxically) because I like to use VMware and run Dreamweaver, and VMware just sucks on FreeBSD.
Don't believe the hype. FreeBSD kicks ass on the desktop. Everything acts and feels much snappier and more stable than linux. And with softupdates to the filesystem, you get the next best thing to journaled filesystems. When you run a lot of desktop software, the occasional X freezes are inevitable, so it's nice to have the security of an uncorruptable filesystem.
My recommendations: 1) if you need a lot of software you used to use on Windows, or you need the best multimedia on Unix/ latest greatest hardware driver, then go with Linux. 2) If you are a vet and know exactly what software you use and can use them well AND these are solid Unix apps, like GIMP, XV, ImageMagic, TeX, LaTeX, xpdf, gv, etc., etc., then try FreeBSD and Applix (for compat w/ the MS world out there). You will not only not be disappointed, you will be amazed, and the 4.0-STABLE is an awesome upgrade.
My system: Dell Inspiron 3000, P200, 144M RAM, 3G HDD. WindowMaker + GNOME; Netscape, XFMail, GnuPG, GIMP, EEyes, NEdit. To the amazement of my Windows friends, I usually have 30 apps open at once and never have a hiccup. Load avg, is 0.15, 0.14, 0.10, uptime 30 days (for my laptop), and of 144M of RAM, I have 644K free. I love this system.
Don't get me wrong, I use Linux daily (debian being my choice as it's the most BSDish) (OpenBSD for firewalls), I run it for VMware and FrameMaker, and because my sound hardware works best in Linux. I like my MP3s. Other than those, I feel I must anticipate the inevitable improvements (i.e., catchups) Linux must make against the BSDs in terms of stability and security. However, FreeBSD could learn a lot from debian's ease in upgradability. No /usr/ports and /usr/src is not comparably simple. Upgrading your whole system, user apps, system apps and all with one command is a Big Plus(TM). Upgrading it with no breaks is even bigger.
Nate's dream world of UNIX: FreeBSD-strength with a dpkg and apt-get --like package management system + a world of the Universal Source Package such that it would be truly trivial to port an app or driver from one *NIX/Linux to another. I actually believe such a day will come. And we will call it Debian GNU/HURD.
While I don't think WordPerfect Office does e-mail, Magellan does most of the things you describe. It's still in development, but it's going to be very cool :)
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Just search for "corel office linux" and you can preorder the puppy. Get in line today!
www.cdw.com
I would no more install WordPerfect on my Linux box than I would Microsoft Office 2000. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I just don't understand the fascination people have with tools that don't work and/or aren't flexible. Do one thing and do it well.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
This release is not only a good product, but it has features integrated that give it a lower price point than the features MS Office2K + Adobe Acrobat for Windows + Crystal Reports provide.
Right now, they are shipping a word processor and tools that allow export to PDF, a database with reporting capabilities that allow export to word processing documents, web pages, and PDF through an intermediate step, as well as pretty complete Office 2000 compatibility.
The cost of this when you add up Office 2000 Professional, Crystal Reports, and Adobe Acrobat for Windows will run you $1000 per user if you don't have discounts. Throw in a Windows 98 license, and it goes up to $1100, or a Win2K Pro license, which makes it roughly $1300.
Buying this and Corel Linux Deluxe costs about $450. A machine to run this on decently (Pentium II/300 or better) that is a major corporate brand can be found for $600 through the large mailorder resellers. For about the same cost as just the software for a MS system, you can buy a decent business system that won't crash as easily.
This is a good deal. It can read those nasty Office document formats, and it has a more complete spreadsheet (I have hit the 256 column limit in Excel before with a client). I'm going to recommend these fully loaded Corel Linux boxes to people who don't have $1000 to spend on just software. Most people use their computers for applications such as this, so that's not a bad idea.
They aren't shipping the Beta!
Obviously, the fact they're shipping indicatates they have resolved all (within reason) the bugs identified in the beta releases.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Customers can also purchase a CD-ROM of Corel LINUX OS download version with the latest enhancements from Corel Customer Service for US $4.95 + $10 shipping and handling by calling 1-800-772-6735.
Ten dollars to ship a CD-ROM? I hope it comes with a printed manual, or something.
Also, it looks like the review link has been /.ed already. Does anybody hae a mirror?
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
Did you ever try to program in Qt and in gtk?
Most people who used both will agree with me that Qt is easier to handle and maintain.
Besides, they didn't use Qt, they used (yuck!) wine. I'd prefer both Qt and gtk over that...
(Nothing against the wine project, but the API it's emulating sucks.)
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
they ported the USB support to 2.2.14, I'm running it.
they ported the USB support to 2.2.14, I'm running it.
Oh geez...   Now your gonna make me go download the sources and compile me a kernel for my Mandrake (kernel 2.2.13-4mdk).
Straying offtopic but how well does it work?   I have support for it on my NetBSD already (although haven't tried it yet) but I also have 2 machines at home with USB ports dying to be used.
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
I recall Corel indicating that they would probably ship this with their newer boxed versions of CorelLinux and it's interesting that they pushed this out the door so quickly (hopefully it ain't buggy), but I'm curious as to their press release claim of "USB support", having indicated that WP2000 would come with their OS running the 2.2.14 kernel.
Wasn't USB support (at least from the last I've read) enabled in or at least "somewhat working" in the 2.3.x+ kernel branch??   Are they doing some kind of wild kluge here or what?   Maybe I'm wrong and there is something that can be enabled in the newer 2.2.x....
Just curious.
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
After playing with the latest builds of WINE over the weekend, I'm not surprised Corel was able to ship so quickly. Now, with an install of WINE with access to a real Windows system directory and a Truetype font server, I not only got Excel 97 working pretty decently(!), but I also got IE 5 to load a few pages. Properly. WIth DHTML working.
These are interesting times. Native apps are always best, but it's clear x86 Linux is heading to a place where you'll soon also be able to run most Windows software cleanly. Not a Terrible Thing for desktop penetration.
I suspect Corel WP Office 2000 doesn't suck, or at least doesn't suck any more than StarOffice 5.1a does. Corel can't market its way out of a paper bag, though. At least they pushed the WINE project ahead nicely.
The first version of WPO at least is a specially modified Windows .EXE that runs on a modified WINE (the WINE mods eliminate windoze drive letters and make the widgets look like KDE/Qt). They had planned to make it a WineLib application, but g++ has some problems with large C++ apps (you've heard them before - no precompiled headers, no incremental linking) that made going the .EXE+WINE route much more painless.
(if there's other reasons that Gav or Zygo or any other Corel/Macadamian dudes want to correct me on, feel free.)