Slashdot Mirror
Costa Rica Offers Free Internet Access
Dan Dragohn writes: "This past Thursday, Costa Rican President Miguel Angel Rodriguez inaugurated a system of free e-mail (& Internet) access for his country's entire population of 3.5 million in a program he said would soon be extended throughout the rest of Central America."
People will pay for it through taxes, yes.
But the US spends about $300 billion per year on military, and Costa Rica spends nothing. That's $1000 per year more of your taxes going to killing innocent Serbians. Maybe this could be better spent too, eh? :)
bad idea because...
1. cut's out the indivual in TCP-IP service providers.
2. set's up a beuracracy that has no incentive to inovate.
Just look at dialup in the US, unless we pay extra for a "decent" (open to debate) connection (DSL/Cable/T1/T3) we are stuck with a connection of marginal quality that may approach 56K when the moon is in proper alignment with Al Gore. Why, the Telco's have no incentive to expand the networks since it is a local call that they make no money on.
Sadly, I think they will run into similar problems.
Best of luck to them...
TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
No it means what it says: I have never me a person from Arkansas or Appalachia. I live in California. My point is that the U.S. is a BIG country, and stereotyping is stupid.
Funny that you mention:
> "some of my best friends are
> Jews/blacks/Hispanics/Asians/..."
Because it is true for me. My best friend as a kid was Black. The Bass player in my band is Jewish, I am very close to him, his family, and several members of his Synagogue. And most of my neighbors are hispanic or Southeast-Asian.
I am not exactly sure what you thought I was trying to justify?
Contrary to some replies posted in comments:
1. Costa Rica is in Central America, NOT South America.
2. The literacy rate is 93%. It's not some backwoods, third-world country.
First of all relax. Just because I don't believe the same thing you do does not make me evol (well maybe it does ). I do believe in a grey area just not the same one you do.
I am not even going to justify your "aryan" remark. That has nothing to do with the topic and you were using it to start flame.
Is an ISP a BASIC service? If the pore man gets it for free but I pay for a private company, do I still have to pay the taxes for that service? You bet I do. Is that wright? Why is the pore man more important than me?
Relax man lets try to have an intelligent conversation with out being mean.
Will
"Acquire an economy"? They have an economy; it might not be as strong as more developed nations, but it's a lot better off than any other country in central America.
Hmmm... this is just typical for something the Costa Rican government would to to increase its international reputation. After having lived there for six years, the strategy the Costa Rican government follows becomes quite clear: Come up with some eye-poppingly modern, incredibly democratic concepts to show off to the world that Costa Rica should be considered one of the havens of true Democracy. Far from it. First of all, we first have to see the system work to beleive it. Or, as a Costa Rican might put it: "Entre el dicho y el hecho hay un largo trecho" (There's a long trench between saying and doing something). Second, I beleive Costa Rica has many other problems to focus on that are WAY more important than Internet access for everyone (bollocks, it would only be for the top 10% of the population anyway. I want to see Don Miguel Angel implementing Internet Access in Los Chiles, on the Costa Rican/Nicaraguan border, yeah right!). Some of these problems are crime, teenage pregnancies, underage prostitution, and most of all, political corruption. These are things never really made internationally public, because they would hurt CR's reputation. Strangely enough, this attitude is followed by most of Costa Rica's citizens. If you want to get a more sincere look at Costa Rica, read La Nacion, the country's biggest newspaper, which does sometimes display a critical attitude towards politics in Costa Rica. To conclude, do not beleive what Costa Rican politicians make you want to beleive. While CR is a huge improvement over other Central American countries, it is far from being a true first world country, both socially, politically and mentality-wise, and internet access for everyone can not make a change by itself. It has to be backed by lots of other social improvements in the country to work.
"Just when you thought life was a bitch, it has puppies."
this is the first real comment to the topic. it really makes me think, reading all these ignorant comments from us citizens on slashdot. now: posting just something without even having a clue what the thing is all about really makes me feel sad about the ignorance towards the rest of the world. the us are not the world. there is much more out there than your 52 states.
and there is one thing i really have to say in this context. for most international issues (and there are many since the internet is an international thing) people here should stop thinking only in thier (poor) northern-american categories.
having that said, let's return to the current issue:
costa rica really did some pathbreaking things in latin america. it is not an incident that this country is sometimes called 'switzerland of central america'. and there are points, where i prefer cr to switzerland. the most important of these things being the lack of an army. this step made the country save many $$$, which can be invested in the local development.
well, i have to admit that i have somehow missed the recent development in cr. anyway i will soon get up to date information from costa rican friends visiting me.
and then: one last word regarding privatization (of telecommunications). i think it is a benefit not to privatize too quickly. mainly because of one major problem: who will get the market? aol? any other northern(-american) company? many of them? or a local company?
you all know the answer, so do i!
neither do i
Probably the biggest reason that they've avoided the military and pseudo-military coups that have plagued the rest of Latin America since the Spaniards were thrown out is that they got rid of their military some time ago and are now constitutionally prohibited from having a military. They still have a pretty strong national police, but still... not the same. Interesting idea, and even more surprising that it works given that some of the nations around are not always stable or benevolent.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
And on people who have no money, and on their families. $1000 probably makes little or no difference to you, but to kids in a single parent family it can be the difference between misery and a reasonable life. A lot of people on slashdot seem to forget that such families exist.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Natural boundries. There's mountain and ocean on all sides, and it would have been difficult up until recently (with air technology) to be invaded. Luck, perhaps, but Costa Rica is a diamond in the rough.
The Good Reverend
OK, gotta reply to that.
One of the social work profs from my university (in the USA) was in Costa Rica and was in a meeting between CR gov't officials and US AID (Agency for International Development) staff.
The issue was squatters hogging certain landowner's land. US AID offered to pay to help CR "exterminate" (kill) them!
CR official's responce: "We can't do that - we're a democracy!"
OK, most other L.A. gov'ts *are* corrupt, but there are some exceptions. CR is among them.
True. The "correct" way for a government to do this without killing the market is to act as a consumer. I.e., not provide internet access themselves, but offer to pay $20/month to to anyone who buys internet access. That way there's still competition between ISPs and inefficient ones'll die out.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
I find this deeply disappointing.
I would best describe Costa Rica's economic/social system as something like the Netherlands. It has pockets of absolute freedom and pockets where the government controls everything. The country does have national health care and social security and a pretty good educational system. It has a tiny coast guard and essentially no militiary which is why it has been able to spend money on human services...bringing a fairly good standard of living for central america. The biggest industry is tourism (a new phenomena, about ten years old) then agriculture.
It's socialism is however at times rampant. Costa Ricans are for instance paid in 13th month cycles (meaning they get one month's worth of pay free yearly.) I have heard anecdotally that this has led to the ruining of the exchange rate of the Colon versus the dollar. (Since no one is actually working for the money.) Strangely enough, the National Assembly has an elected Libertarian...so go figure. As someone pointed out, Costa Rica regularly gets hundreds of millions of dollars from the US government, but my understanding is that this is used mostly to cover interest on debt payments. The national debt as a percentage of GDP is huge, a result of deficit spending to cover the country's social security system.
With respect to technology, Costa Rica is ahead of most 3rd world nations (and some say that Costa Rica is no longer a 3rd world nation, but something higher.) Intel makes the Celeron processor in a fabrication plant in Costa Rica, and that has brought in other high-tech industries, of which I can't name a single damn one, but anyway. I have no idea how high computer ownership is, but it is not uncommon for someone to own a computer in the capital city.
Costa Rica's main problem though won't be helped by this idea, in fact it will be hurt even more. The telephone and electric system is completely government run. The president has tried to privatize it, but labor unions and students went crazy preventing it. This is a shame because the telephone system is severely inadequate in many ways. There are stories of two year delays in getting telephone wiring to new homes...(although I have heard that this is now down to about six weeks on average.) Cellular phone companies , which saved some countries from their government run telephone systems, are also government run. This was not the case, until several years ago, when the government went on a socialist rampage and closed down the private cell phone companies. Not only was this enormously stupid, but it put a lot of people in danger, since there were many people in rural areas who only had cell phones because it was so difficult to get land lines installed.
There are *no* private ISP's in Costa Rica. If you want service, you get it from RACSA. And really, RACSA is just a division of ICE, the phenomenally backwards electric and telephone company. Funny enough, there are a bunch of cable companies in the main city hooking up coaxial everywhere...I hope some of it is in the form of fiber optic line. Looking at the RACSA homepage (racsa.co.cr) it seems that the cost right now of internet service is about $1/hr. Since RACSA is government owned anyway, the difference between making it free and charging may not be all that much as things go budget wise.
However, it does mean that the government is still going to be running their internet system, which is based on their lame telephone system. And on top of that, they will be drawing into the national treasury in order to do it. That means that the vast majority of Costa Ricans will be paying so that the minority can have internet service, who were able to afford it anyway.(No matter what anyone says, computer literacy may be high, but it's not that high.)
This is socialism at its worst. RACSA and ICE need to be privatized so that telecommunication costs can take a huge drop and internet service can become significantly more affordable and universal. That will have more of an effect than this plan.
Yea, sorry about that. I was trying to link to Stinkymeat but I couldn't remember the address offhand. But you can't dispute that the Stile project is a wonderful example of diversity on the Internet
Pete
The sole purpose of the Internet is to get porn and bomb making plans into the hands of children.
You are so completely ignorant! Costa Ricans are mainly descended from Spaniards. They are differ...oops... I almost forgot. You are an a-coward.
First, it's geographically difficult.
Second, because there isn't a hell of a lot to gain by invading it.
Third, because they have a defensive understanding with the United States.
And fourth, because their diplomatic neutrality meant the USSR/Cuba had no incentive to support a war there despite the US-Costa Rican understanding.
Steven E. Ehrbar
But you absolutely missed the point you were replying to!
The poster was talking about geographic equal access, as his road analogy makes clear. Private companies don't have the incentive to extend equal levels of access to everyone everywhere-- they will concentrate in the more populated and affluent areas.
In the case of phone service, for example, there have been countries where the government has bought private phone cos. because the companies wouldn't provide decent service to all of the country.
Here is the article on a Costa Rican Newspaper. http://www.prensalibre.co.cr/2000/6/1/fnac2.html I've always seen Costa Rica as a better country than mine, and I see that Free Internet for Costa Ricans is very good, lots of people have their families living in the US and need to communicate with them, free email/internet will help them a lot. Here in Honduras there is a company (http://www.tutopia.com)that just started to give free Internet To have a dedicated 128 K line here you have to pay 1200$/month. The only Telecommunication company owned by the government is called Hondutel, the good thing is that right now Hondutel is going to a privatization process (France Telecom, Telmex or Telefonica) might buy Hondutel.
It always amuses me when someone claims a recent cultural invention to be part of "human nature". Do you consider agriculture part of human nature, too?
Why can we not get along and RESPECT each other's cultures. The citizens of the United States have a different culture from Europeans. Let us not resort to a flame war over which economic system is better. Remember, love not hate.
This attitude conveniently glosses over the fact that the economic system of the US generates enormous wealth for a privileged few, and huge misery for billions.
Your demand for "respect" for the US culture and economy makes no sense if the US culture and economy systematically attacks and undermines those of most of the rest of the world.
Sorry to disapoint you, but it has been happening in a more developed country, just a bit up north, in Canada. There is a program in the province of Quebec that helps families get connected by paying most (if not all) the internet fees for one or two years (don't remember). They also pay a part of the computer. I hope the rest of Canada follows.
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
that Costa Rican users will be able to surf the internet free of charge over the next six months, through a pilot project in which municipal governments will regulate the time local users can spend on the system, based on demand in each locale.
really this is just great, you get everybody in Costa Rica using this service and everybody will be on for 10 seconds at a time. I mean does this count for people who have money to pay for internet acces? Are they regulated based on demand too?, even if they have the money to pay for internet access, it seems like a stupid plan to me. Get everybody using the internet sure. But don't mention the fact that you can only stay on for 30 seconds.
- "YOU NEED TO CHOSE LIFE AND THEN LIVE"
Merely taking a government agency and turning it into a private company doesn't help the situation. It actually makes it worse, because now they're a monopoly who can be blatantly self-interested with no restraint. At least a government agency ostensibly has oversight, ultimately by the voters (I know I know, big problems there but way beyond the scope of this note). A private monopoly has no oversight and zero incentive to provide a good product or service.
For privatization to be an improvement, effective competition has to be part of the picture. No matter where you fall on the government-vs.-free-market debate, almost anyone would agree that a private monopoly is worse than either a government agency or a competitive free market. Anyone pushing for privatization needs to remember that and to incorporate competition into any plan for privatization.
Nothing against the post above, just bringing up a point that's usually overlooked.
Developing nations, many of whom don't have consistant proper sanitation, transportation, telephone access, and a host of other problems are being handed universal internet access? Are their governments going to start voting for more bread and circuses next? I suppose they are only doing this because it would be relatively cheap and flashy as opposed to actually fixing their countries problems...
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
And also because neighboring countries have enough problems of their own to worry about, and are close to the USA.
Nicaragua may have been able to take it (or try to) under Somoza, but Somoza and the US officials were good buddies. Had he tried to take CR, I doubt the USA would be too pleased with him.
And during the 80s, the Nicaraguan Sandanistas had far too much to worry about in their own country without trying to take another.
Panama is/was also closely tied to the USA so they would also be "discouraged".
After spending most of my life living in Canada all I can say is that sociallized programs and government subsidized services stink. Yes the price is great but the quality is pitiful. It is a great idea to give Internet Access to the masses but in our Capitalistic World the incentive will not be enough to provide quality. For quality you need competition not a "monopoly".
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
NPS Internet Solutions, LLC
www.npsis.com
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
No, I believe Finland is, and Norway and Sweden and New Zealand are above the US. In per capita terms, that is; of course the US has the most internet users.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Er
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
These are all valid concerns. However most of them can be avoided if the government does not actually run an ISP itself. If it just offers to pay up to a certain amount of your ISP bill, this doesn't destroy the ISP market or give the government particularly good opportunities for censorship.
Of course, even if the government *does* run an ISP, it may be good on balance, if significantly many people get internet access who wouldn't have been able to afford it otherwise. You trust the government to run schools for this reason [I presume] so why not ISPs?
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
I personally feel that the rights of the individual are more important than the benefits of the group.
This is bad in three ways
1) Eliminates chose. The government is the worst monolopy of them all.
2) Allows for government control in the privat sector. If the government if providing it they can filter it who is to stop them? The government?
3) Kills private business This takes away my freedom. If I want to be an ISP it would be very difficult to do it in this system
NOTHING is free. In this system people pay for it weather they want it or not. Some people pay for it more than others. The people that have more pay more taxes. What if your ISP said to you " Well you make 80k so we are doing to charge you $60 a month for your service if you made 40k you would only have to pay $30"? It would probably make you mad.
Will
Or did you just stereotype the whole of south and central America as one homogenous starving cesspit that you don't want to know about because it isn't America, doesn't have a mall in every town, and doesn't pump out 25% of the world's polution despite having only 5% of the population?
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
Off-topic? Bullcrap
Some moderate smoking crack
This post is valid
You do make an interesting point about the desire for information being irrespective of wealth, though most people could have told you that anyway.
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
Do I see this happening in more developed Western nations? No, for the same reason that the DMCA and the UTICA bills were passed - the almighty bottom line. There is no way that America or any other country with a signifigantly developed economy would implement something of this scale. But then again do we really need "Internet Welfare"? I don't think so, but that's another story for another day.
Pete
The sole purpose of the Internet is to get porn and bomb making plans into the hands of children.
Perhaps "enslavement" in the physical sense sounds too paranoid, but I still think they exert a degree of control over our lives beyond what can be morally and ethically taken by any government that represents itself as "by the people, of the people, and for the people."
Stay up hacking each weekend. Sleep is for the week.
...Americans exhaust themselves at work, then have no energy for anything else. Ditto here in Canada. I hear it's the same way in Japan and Germany, and in all of the countries with the highest productivities.
Work makes you stupid, but leisure makes you weak. None of their "cultural and philosophical awareness" gets them longer lifespans, higher technology, or military significance. If you told me they had a higher percentage of scientific literacy, I might think they were on to something, but culture is idle amusement and philosophy is masturbation; a bit of either is acceptable, even beneficial, but when they start cutting into your working hours, it is decadence.
I know, we all enjoy mocking our homelands, but confusing strength and weakness too often makes your brain soft.
..but then again I'm from a semi-socialist country (Canada)..
"Today we become the first society in the world in which email is free and open to all," the Costa Rican president said in a speech at the headquarters of the state-run Costa Rican Postal Service, which together with the state-run Radiografica Costarricense (Racsa) will be implementing the program, dubbed Punto.com.
Um.. This sounds a bit like hype.. I don't know about the States, but up in the frozen north we can walk into a public library, or the occasional coffee shop and use any one of the 'free' web based mail services...
-
air and light and time and space
To add to the above post: what about hotmail? is that not free? Free internet access is already available in Australia through companies like freeonline.com.au and goconnect.com.au in Australia - well, at least, free in the sense that all it takes is a local phone call!
Punto.com? Run that through babelfish and it sounds suspiciously close to the name of this website. Methinks they are trying to confuse the readers of Slashdot and steal their business by infringing on their god given trademark rights. Just because it is in a different language is no excuse. It still means the same thing.
Roblimo, I think perhaps you had better notify Andover.net's squadron of lawyers so they can start composing nastygrams to send to these trademark pirates.
;-]
Ideology is for ideots.
I'm an american, and I've met people from Arkansas and the west Appalachian area and he's right!
Fact is, ignorance knows no bounries and permiates all walks of life and areas of pursuit. The real shame is, we didn't learn this earlier before we elected him president.
Twice!
___
Sure, the people have free internet access, but how many of these people have computers to begin with?
-- Dr. Eldarion --
People will be able to "...surf the internet free of charge over the next six months..." -- okay, but what happens after that? Who gets left holding the bag? Do I have to support it if I don't use it?
Also, "...municipal governments will regulate the time local users can spend on the system, based on demand in each locale...". It sure would suck to be kicked off while writing a message because demand is so high that you only get about two minutes a pop. Wonder how they're rating/measuring this?
Today's lesson: Sunblock. Shouldn't have left home without it. ( ~sizzle~ )
--
*kerchunk* *beep* "...Operator."
well, well, well this looks like a great way for them to control the countrys e-mail and internet access dosen't it..
are the telcos really going to give up on charging for telephone-use ? what are they going to live from when everybody is phoning over IP ? would be really great news though.
Internet access is so cheap now, it would cost pennies/person for the government to do something like this and it would probably pay for itself in economic benefit many times over, not to mention increase the average intelligence level of our society.
Two things...
1) Despite what we 24-hour net users and pundits might have us believe, net access lies a bit down there on Maslow's ol' heirarchy. This is a nice symbolic and attention-getting move but barely substantive when it comes to improving the standard of living.
2) So the government will provide these services free of charge. That also mean they can deny it at will if some future government sees fit, and the potential is tremendous for monitoring, censoring, and other supervisory actions. Even in a "free" society like the US, there is government abuse of its own systems and programs. It does and will continue to happen elsewhere. Even as this program is announced, "municipal governments will regulate the time local users can spend on the system". Highest bidder, anyone?
You know absolutly nothing about Costa Rica or Mexicans, or else you wouldn't say such garbage. What a bad statement, but then again, nothing is as bad as an Anonymous Coward.
The problems with this proposal is that it will suffer the same problems as any free good provided by the government.
Also, I wonder how much benefit raw internet access brings to people in a third world country. Anyone have any direct experience with this?
Why doesn't Costa Rica do something cool like a rebel outpost on the fringes of cyberspace?
-- Diana Hsieh
-- Diana Hsieh
GeekPress: The Weirder Side of Tech News
Administered by the Gov't and OWNED by the Gov't are different things. In a socialist society, the government would create the infrastructure needed for this system, which would be fairly expensive and lead to a larger government.
:-)
The likely solution in the U.S. would still be government control, as they have a (semi) workable system that extends across the country (which is the aim of the program) and can afford to operate at a loss because of other sources of income, namely funds extracted from the populace by the barrel of a gun. (Oops, sorry, was that opinion?) The difference would be that the government would contract the services out, paying private firms to provide the services for free the to populace.
Either that, or I need a refresher course in Comp. Gov't, which is also possible.
Mycroft-X
So...does this mean we should be looking out for more posts "en espanol" in the future? ~Matt
i guess it really comes down to how you define "Administered"
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
"The first step is education." - how ironic....
In Portugal every ISP has a free access fot those who don't care too much about speed or phone rates. There are at least 3 free providers (that I recall, probably more). None is from the government, all of them are from private groups competing in the communications market. None is ADD supported either.
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Guess what number three is.
hehe good point.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
ahh but private ownership could charge any fee they wanted to. Then you could have contracts with pricing plans (perhaps free nights and weekends, but expensive long distance travel) and it would become more of a circus than the cell phone market.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Yep - we all know Linus only created his kernel to get rich, selling copies of his binary-only OS...
Secondly: Why can we not get along and RESPECT each other's cultures. The citizens of the United States have a different culture from Europeans. Let us not resort to a flame war over which economic system is better. Remember, love not hate.
I agree - both systems have some merit, and neither is perfect.
Incidentally, anyone arguing in favour of govt. involvement should just look at British Telecom; having been privatised for 16 years now, we still have the same appalling prices and service, it still has 86% of the market. As a result, most people still pay for Net access by the minute - at up to 4p (about 6 cents) per minute. Unmetered access is supposed to be happening - by the end of this year, for about $30-40 per month. ADSL should cover 25% of the country by the end of the year, but costs $60/month. Wonderful.
A government monopoly may look like a good way to kick-start the service - but once it has served its purpose, it can take a very long time to dispose of.
More like agriculture, textiles, electronics, plastics, etc.
Wow, what a brilliant insight. You've obviously met all the people from Arkansas and Appalachia, so you're able to reaffirm a Costa Rican who's never been there's stereotype of a good chunk of the US.
What do you suppose the odds are that your average Arkansan or Appalachian makes enough money to buy his *own* internet access, and doesn't need his government to provide it for him?
the neighbouring countries? Given that the military in that part of the world is not above doing a coup, why do they hesitate to invade an army-less neighbour, now would they? Yes, I know, normally the government decides on who to wage war with, but after a coup the military is the government.
Say no to software patents.
If I take $50 / month away from you and then give you a 56kbps internet connection, did you just get a free internet connection ?
If not, than neither will the people in Costa Rica.
-Snoot
You cannot ask a question like, "What is it like in South America?" South America is not, despite what Ronal Reagan thought, one big country. Each country is different. Cuba (well, Latin America, anyway), for instance, has near-100% literacy but a horrible lack of basic supplies like medicine due to the U.S. embargo. Brazil, though, faces massive poverty and illiteracy. Each of the others has its own story.
Switch the . and the @ to email me.
They tried to get every citizen email a few years ago, until people reminded them that anyone could get on hotmail from a library or an internet cafe.
"The advance of technology is a problem for us"
-------------------------
"After Careful Consideration, Bush Recommends Oil Drilling" - The Onion
they can go to foodtv.com and see who's gonna be on the iron chef.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
They might not have as many computers per capita as in US/Canada, but I'd say the general education level in Costa Rica, and general Central/South America is quite good. Literacy rates (from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/count ry.html), smattering of countries: NORTH AMERICA US -- 97% Canada -- 97% Mexico -- 89% CENTRAL AMERICA Costa Rica -- 95% Honduras -- 73% Nicaragua -- 66% SOUTH AMERICA Brazil -- 83% Argentina -- 96% Colombia -- 91% Chile -- 95% Peru -- 89% Uruguay -- 97% CARIBBEAN Cuba -- 96% Haiti -- 45% I grew up in Brazil and Uruguay. Most Latin Americans take education seriously. You'll find the average person-on-the-street not only more literate, but more culturally and philosophically aware than your average American joe. In the U.S. we learn what we need to for work and turn to aimless isolating entertaining selfish pursuits after-hours. Latin Americans (like Europeans) are better prepared to function as members of society. Of course, that's not a goal for many here, YMMV.
...just look at British Telecom...
It's not as if BT has a UK wide monopoly across the whole of the UK anymore. People do have a choice of Telco's wherever they are in the UK. Unmetered access via. BT happened as off last Friday, too FYI.
BT's supposed monopoly seems to come down to the fact that people are too lazy to change, but still complain about the price/service etc.
Disclaimer: I work for BT, and am posting this from a BT computer, in a BT office. My views are my own, not those of my employer.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
While it's not entirely clear how much of the announcement is a serious attempt to provide email to all Costa Ricans, and how much is merely a public relations stunt, even a partial effort is better than none. Because computer technology can be expensive, internet accessibility is something difficult for poorer people to obtain. But as email and internet accessibility becomes more important in education, business, etc, this lack becomes more and more of a barrier to the poor in their struggle to improve their socioeconomic situation. A negative feedback cycle can result: as email and internet access becomes more and more important, the poor become less and less able to improve their socioeconomic status to pay for the equipment, education and services required to obtain said access. A centralized effort to provide accessibility to all can help overcome this negative feedback cycle and can help provide the means for the poorer members of society to better their situation.
How "inexistent" is the Costa-Rican army actually?
Do they have a strong police?
How do they battle drug traffickers, and foreign guerrillas?
(Amusing fact: at the end of "Jurassic Park", we see the Costa-Rican Air Force helicopters flying to destroy every rest of dinos from Isla Nubla. But there is not CR Air Force!)
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__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
I always love the "poor Cubans are dying due to the embargo caused by the evil US".
Europeans are putting up luxury hotels on Cuban beaches. Spaniards and Portugese are flocking to cheap Cuba for vacations. Cuban resorts will only accept foreign money, preferably American $ if they can get them. All accepted money HAS to be changed for Cuban money at government-run money changing institutions and possession of foreign money without permission is a crime.
Meanwhile, the Cuban government has control of all funds generated by Euro-tourism in Cuba. Fidel, (president for life, BTW) and his cronies have no shortage of medical supplies, food or sattelite TV from America.
Before you blame the US, look at the system in place in Cuba. Most people starve or suffer in this world not due to lack of intervention on the part of the US, but due to poor distribution systems and political corruption on the part of their own country.
Check the facts and quick spewing the rhetoric and propoganda. Truth hurts, buckwheat.
Also from the factbook this time for Australia,
Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 100%
male: 100%
female: 100% (1980 est.)
Click here to see it for yourself, I know this is not the case, so does this mean anything?
Also it's using 1980 data??
It's impressive that Costa Rica is going with this, since AFAIK they're the first latin-American nation to do this. Regardless of any other issues they might have implementing it, you gotta admit it's a pretty bold initiative.
So what other countries offer this sort of thing? I know Iceland national telecom has plans (if they haven't already) to offer free net to every citizen (all 278,000 of them - I admit to being an islenskaphile) and Finland has something along those lines too...anybody else?
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"I used to listen to Null Device before they sold out."
According to ABC Canada, 22% of adult Canadians have "serious problems dealing with printed materials" (some kind of phobia?). While this isn't the same as illiteracy, I guess they consider it functional illiteracy.
I never said it was great. I stated a fact of human nature.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
I think your point about ignorance of other cultures/countries is well taken. I have always had a very positive view of Costa Rica. And I know that CR is in Central not South America.
But then you wrote:
> Costa Ricans may not be MIT grads, but they're
> not from Arkansas or the Appalachian either!
> Not all Americans are as sharp as tacks:
> Remember that!
You lost me right there. There are certainly ignorant people in the U.S. But most people are not. I've lived in the U.S. for 28 years and I have never even met a person from Arkansas or Appalachia.
I guess my point is that stereotyping Americans is no better than stereotyping or being ignorant of Costa Ricans. I don't really understand why people find this necessary. If people are mistaken they should be corrected, but never insulted.
There are certainly plenty of opportunities to be critical of the U.S. and the actions of some of its citizens. But the U.S. is as diverse as any place in the world. I live on the same street with people of African, Asian, Latin American, and European decent.
I am as annoyed with people who live outside the U.S. stereotyping my country as people outside the U.S. are sick of being misunderstood. Your letter is certainly not the worst offender here on Slashdot. I chose to respond to you because you made a good point but felt it necessary to throw on an unneeded insult that did exactly the kind of thing that your comment was supposed to be correcting.
They might not have as many computers per capita as in US/Canada, but I'd say the general education level in Costa Rica, and general Central/South America is quite good.
Literacy rates (from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/count ry.html), smattering of countries:
I grew up in Brazil and Uruguay. Most Latin Americans take education seriously. You'll find the average person-on-the-street not only more literate, but more culturally and philosophically aware than your average American joe.
In the U.S. we learn what we need to for work and turn to aimless isolating entertaining selfish pursuits after-hours. Latin Americans (like Europeans) are better prepared to function as members of society. Of course, that's not a goal for many here, YMMV.
I'm an American living in Costa Rica and internet access is hardly free here. Bandwidth is much more expensive than in the USA. For example, I am paying $1,800/month for a dedicated 128K line. All connections here must go through the local government-owned telephone monopoly, which is in serious need of competition. Compared to the US, the service sucks. Bribery is the quickest way to get something done (and even that does not always work). Competent and reliable help is hard to find. I have been trying to get a T-1 for several months, but the telco continues to delay and give me excuses (the latest one being, "We're out of T-1 modems"). I used to think that dealing with USWest was a pain, but they're nothing compared to idiots who work for the phone company here. The plan for "free" internet access is simply to allow email at certain public facilities. Not a big deal. You can find better free access in the USA. Costa Rica tried to pass a bill to privatize the telco/internet company, but the unions complained and they ended up with a half-assed bill that no likes or understands. Privatizing the telecom stuff has been the goal of the current president (I met with him about a year ago to discuss it). Unfortunately, he has not been able to get the political support to accomplish it. The politicians here are no different and are just as short-sighted as the ones back home. Much of the population here has been brainwashed to see government as the solution to all their problems (even more so than the US). Many can't even imagine a telephone service that is privately operated. However, if they ever do see the light and open things up to competition in telecommunications, this country could become a true data haven.
Actually, in the U.S. it comes down to how you define 'is'. :-)
Mycroft-X
2 ISPs in Singapore offered freee Internet access since December 1999. It has bought about increased usage and further accelerated the IT savvyness of its people. In addition the whole country is Broadband ready with ready access to ADSL / Cable Modem. [JASON@CHAW]
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And the NSA would get all giddy just thinking about being able to route everyone's email through their big computers.
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
That can't be right. The level of literacy on Mexico is around 87%, and it's one of the lowes of the "big countries" on latin america. I'd expect Canada's to be higher.
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Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
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CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Somebody in Russia or China probably isn't a native English speaker, or able to read it fluently, but maybe they can do well enough to read a web page if it's interesting enough to justify the effort.
I doubt there will be one language for the net, but there will probably be more consensus eventually. The top two or three languages may dominate the rest disproportionately. Some dialect of Chinese may be the language of choice for the East, but Chinese is notoriously difficult to learn (but hey, X million Chinese can't be wrong).
Translation technology keeps getting better, but slowly...give it ten years or so...
(I focus on English because it's the most common language, spoken or webbed.)
Costa Rica has shown itself to be a pretty enlightened country, more so, can be argued, than the US, especially in environmental policies. Doesn't surprise me that much that they're the first nation to extend a national program of free access.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And you are a person to listen to? You must be from the other percentile, not of the 90%. I live in the heart of the Appalachians fella, and life here is simple and happy. You scold people that make fun of people that live elsewhere, and yet you do it too? You should concentrate of the beauty of CR since you know so much.
Linus made Linux for personal reasons before the reasons of others. That is how humans work. I should revise my previous statement to read that people always think of themselves before others, and this includes money a lot of the time.
I know that when I am working on free software I am doing it for personal reasons first (satisfaction from making software that others will use, sense of accomplishment, etc).
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
When your only method of getting Internet access is through your government, what expectation of online privacy could you have? Here in the USA we have been fighting to keep the government from passing laws to be able to monitor internet traffic. Having your government as your ISP sounds very big-brotherish to me.
El Presidente must be a basketball fan, as he's obviously seen a few too many NetZero ads during halftime this season.
------- Was it just a coincidence I got moderator points the first time I logged on to
Looks like a thinly veiled attempt to start a little flame-war on the tenets of socialism versus an american-style, progress before people, capitalist orgy.
/me wonders who else will take the young republican/libertarian's bait.
That being said, maybe you can also send a post off to all those miserable socialist countries so they can start cutting back on all those pesky welfare programs, and socialized medicine and such. It would be great for Europe if it makes their underclass bigger and raises there infant mortality rate to match the US! Maybe Costa Rica could then follow America's fine example with net access. I'm being serious! No really!!
Right now, Costa Rica has a smaller gap between the wealthy and the lower classes than most other Central American countries. So let's give their government at least a _tiny_ bit of credit. As opposed to libertarians such as your beloved David Friedman, which have yet to prove themselves in any sort of fashion.
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"blazing down the road, el camino" --Ween
How are they gonna give each person an individual username? They gotta be awkward, and probably be revealing lots of personal information (ie firstnamelastname+anything that identifies them in a different way)...
There are approximately 3,800,000 people living in Costa Rica after all...
-- "Tradition is the illusion of permanence."
Thats why I added (IIRC)
IIRC == If I Remember Correctly.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
It's not implemented yet, and I don't think it will be soon, but it helped increase internet's "popularity" (this happened at the same time that the guy from amazon was "man of the year" for some magazine). Right now there must be like 4 or 5 "free internet" companies now on the country, all private of course.
There was no article on any news source I could find (at least not in english).
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Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
Very interesting. Its a good idea: Free access to information. The problem that I see is the overall lack of computers in South America. Sure, rich families will have them, but most people will not. Still as the article says, terminals will be installed in public areas.
Again, though, how many people will use them? Here in Canada the level of literacy is (IIRC) about 80%. What is it like in South America? You cannot use the internet without a functional ability to read.
With the spread of this idea it gives all the more reason to donated your used systems to South American countries, its better than sending them to landfill. I know that there was an organization here in Canada that was sending used systems to Cuba (yes, its Central America...)
If "free" (donated) PC's begin to become common, I wonder what OS they will use? I sure hope its a free one. Competition would still be good too.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Now if they can just get food.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
I think the question is, do YOU need internet welfare? Some people do. Many companies and governments are recognizing the importance of Internet Accsess in regards to thier customers/citizens. A local broadcaster in town offers "free" internet accsess. Not the best going I admit, but for those who can't afford it, it's a godsend. As for countries being connected, if I remember correctly, Canada has something like %50 of it's population on-line, with internet accsess avaliable in all librairies, schools, and community centres (or soon to be) in the country, with our city, being a big place for telecom in the country, riding at almost 70% of the populice online, over 20% of that with broadband service. People are starting to get the message. Get on-line or don't survive. No country can afford to let Internet Access become the tool with which the classes are seperated. Information is power. That's why libraries were created. Think about it.
-In the event that you disagree with the previous comment, be advised that you are most likely right anyway.
As much as I would like to see completly free internet access, I am skeptical as to how "free" this will be. Two possibilities for evil (and money) would be 1) making this ad based 2) the government could start tracking (and possibly selling) users' transmissions.
As a Costa Rican, I'm amused by most (not all) of the replies associated with Costa rica obtaining free Internet/email. Many of which are prime examples of ignorance and a lack of knowledge towards other countries. Costa Rica (CR) is in Central America not South America. It's literacy rate is in the 90 percentile. Although some farmers still use animals to plow their land I don't think McDonalds, Dole or Chiqitta do. And last I checked, Intel and other chip firms have and are still building new chip facilities in CR to support the US market. A location which was chosen based on literacy rate, population income and tax breaks as usual. Back to the point of free Internet/email service for the masses. Is this good? Yes, but not many can take advantage of it. After all, you need a computer first. And not many of my Costa Rican comrades feel that computers are essential outside of work. Costa Rica encourages living stress free and spending time with your family. You might be broke, but you're a happy broke person. Is it paradise? Far from it, but the folks can teach people a thing or two about what's really important in life. Don't fall for any of this PR crap folks. It's just posturing by the president to look good in the eyes of his people as well as the US. Possibly to get additional US $$$ aid. Costa Ricans may not be MIT grads, but they're not from Arkansas or the Appalachian either! Not all Americans are as sharp as tacks: Remember that!
I think the interesting question with more countries coming online in greater ideas is going to be language.
Babelfish sucks, and I don't know of anything much better.
So people are going to need to be able to read pages in the language they were written. As I see it, this is either going to mean seeing the net split along language boundries(i.e. Russians will only go to Russian sites because that's all they can read, etc. - most sites, unlike Yahoo, can't have different versions for each language)....or, most people on the net switch to one language. Clearly, at this point, that language would be English. If China ever got a large % of their people online, they might be able to make a run for the top too.
But does anyone see any evidence of either of these two scenarios occuring? Have you or anyone you know learned English just to be able to use the internet?
I'll bet that even in the US, which has one of the highest percentages of computer ownership in the world, that the figure isn't above 50%. The "computer in every home" ideal isn't a reality yet, even in countries that are considered highly web-aware. I've never heard much about tech in Costa Rica. Can we expect even 0.5 million of those people to be able to use that free WWW access?
Before posting, I did a little research. Paraphrasing some CIA info: democratic republic, legal system based on Spanish civil law. Economy depends largely on tourism, agriculture, and electronics exports, "very good domestic telephone service". The US State Department considers Costa Rica to be "middle-income" and "developing". Nearest neighbors are Nicaragua and Panama. Sounds like the WWW access could help to stimulate growth in the tech sector.
That doesn't make the situation sound very bleak, but in a poorer country, offering free WWW access to those who are able to use it (ie computer owners) is akin to offering a free automobile to any person who has walked on the moon, unless there is an abundance of libraries and schools with public terminals. I'd like to hear from a citizen.
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I like to watch.
Well, at 12 bananas or so to power each email server, they should be able to provide service for most of the nation pretty easily.
What governmental system does C.R. operate under? Under a socialist system something like this would be interesting only in its technical aspects, as governmental services are to be expected (and a lack of them would surely lead to a revolt over high taxes).
What would be interesting is if it operates under a free-market capitalistic structure, as the U.S. ostensibly does. How viable do you think this would be, and would it be best administered on a national, state or municipal level? Or perhaps it would be best operated with a centralized structure, with primary control held in a central office, with certain powers delegated to state a local offices.
Thoughts?
Mycroft-X
I think this is a pretty smart move for Costa Rica; allowing everyone to have free internet access and e-mail is no doubt going to be a huge undertaking, but it is something that will probably benefit them in the long-run.
:)
The article gives brief details about providing free internet access to the citizens of Costa Rica who already have computers and setting up terminals in public buildings for those without, and I think this is an excellent move as far as benefitting the country in a long-term view. By allowing people to use the internet free-of-charge, there will no doubt be an increase in the number of people pursuing both hobbies and careers in computer fields simply because of the greater exposure.
Also, because Costa Rica has a relatively stable status quo compared to neighboring countries, it seems probable that this program will be fully implemented (no pesky political shake-ups or economic crises to mess with the timeline.)
Right now, most of Costa Rica's GDP comes from industries like coffee, bananas and textiles but I think that with a program like this being implemented the country will lean more toward an economy based on computers.
Besides, it's a lot prettier than the United State's computer industry hot-spots; they have tropical forests and monkeys and jaguars
GeekFlavor
.. dont seem to like having their faults pointed out to them. They become very defensive. Sometimes I wish they'd open their eyes/minds.
American arrogance is the belief that if an alien spacecraft lands somewhere other than the US, then the aliens must be lost.
Internet access right now is pretty expensive for the Ticos. My father is vacationing there right now. The only way to get email to me is via a friend, as my step-brother he is staying with has no way to afford the cost of using an ISP.
This is great news. Although with the Costa Rican government running it, we here in the USA are going to be the ones paying for it. The USA gives Costa Rica over $700 million a year to support their government, education, and medical systems.
I would like it better if it were implimented via the private sector.
two words, one tone: busy signal
sheesh? You didn't even mention slashdot's ties with the Illuminati.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
I'm from Costa Rica and it makes me proud to see it in a Slashdot story.
First of all, we don't have 1 computer. You can check out some stats here that compare it to other central american countries.
No, it's not communist.
Here's a map and here's some real info.
Education is not bad. As a matter of fact AIS (Acer Inforation Services) set up their base customer help lines in Costa Rica, so most of the calls people made to 1-800-ACERHELP (I don't remember the exact number) got routed to CR. This was because labor is cheap compared to the states and people are skilled.
In 1997 (I think) Intel build the latest Fab in Costa Rica, where a lot of the Pentium III people use here are produced.
However, getting back on track. Internet for everyone is not easy. Costa Rica's televcommunications infrastructure is still developing. They released Cable Modems around 6 months ago and the talk is starting about DSL. The drawback, however, is that net access is only from statelite links, and a poor country like Costa Rica can't afford big fat links from satelites it doesn't own, so net access outside Costa Rica is kinda slow.
The Telecomunications are also a matter of big discussion, since right now they are controled by the state. That means that there is only one telephone company and one ISP (Comertial) from which all individuals and businesses get their connections.
Getting email to everybody started with getting access to all schools, but that's a far away project.
I hope everything matures.
-Cureless-
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Reply . . . let's get it over with.
There once was President Miguel
Costa Ricans thought he was just swell
That is, 'til his plan
"Connect all in the land!"
The provider he chose: AOL
Our country has always tried to present to the world an image of us as the "ecologically perfect, hi-tech paradise", which we are not. Not yet in the tech field, anyway.
Then, they launched last week this crazy idea of everybody having access to e-mail. Since a few days back, you can go to any post-office, your local Municipalidad (kind of a City Hall), and some other government offices, and get five minutes in a computer to write e-mail.
But this could have some rather political significance down here. You see, both telecommunications and the postal service are run by government-controlled institutions (or even worst, they're in their own right monopolies). Internet Access is controlled by RACSA, the only ISP allowed here; and the postal service is controlled by CORREOS DE COSTA RICA.
The two institutions were commissioned by the President to carry out his plan of giving access to e-mail to every citizen. Both operate quite independently, but in the end, they're always governement firms. Since the President announced his e-mail idea, three different publicity efforts have shown up in local papers. RACSA has repeatedly announced that this is an example of their "hi-tec, cutting edge service" (pretty false, IMHO). CORREOS has been stating that this shows how they contribute to ou country's development. And the government has been telling everybody the rumors that finally found their way to Slashdot.
So, these three institutions are trying to get the most out of this situation. But none of us really know if their expectations will become real. Our government clearly doesn't have the resources it needs to create e-mail centers all around the country. As I write this, perhaps only a few of these centers really exist. And it may take decades before they appear in the farthest towns of our country. The Internet has only recently started to become popular among the people here; and RACSA executives probably want the people to have a nice opinion of them, because there are laws being discussed in our Congress which threaten their existence as a monopoly.
All of the above are simply my own opinions. Anyway, if you want to have a glimpse of paradise while you dwell on this world, come visit us. Here's what the local institutions and papers say about this:
CORREOS' page about this e-mail initiative.
What RACSA says about this.
La Nacion, in Spanish.
La Prensa Libre, also in Spanish
************************ Juan I. Del Valle juan@choriticos.net ************************
I'm not certain, and I don't know exactly what they plan on doing with this, but wouldn't offline browsing and email fit the description they have? It would reduce overhead for the state while increasing load on the citizen, maintaining a market for private ISPs as well. While offline email is a reasonable solution (as it was the last time I used Juno, about three years ago) web browsing would be a real pain.
Mycroft-X
Also, this would be a great way to implement some sort of a literacy program for the country's residents, and in the process, we might
1) discover some great writer out there whose imagination is just waiting for the power of writing
2) Find a great theoretical physicist who fundamentally changes the laws of physics and invents the matter/anti-matter teleporter, the replicator, fusion power and cars that run on clean H20.
3) Or someone who inspires anarchy and is just waiting for the right moment.
There's always two sides to everything...
0-D
/.'s 10 Millionth