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Linux Cell Phone/PDA
maxmutt writes: "PalmPalm Technology Inc. a Korean Company, has got a new "smart phone", the IMT-2000, that looks interesting." Runs Linux, and is both a cell phone and PDA. Plays MP3 and video, has bluetooth, and runs embedded Qt. And has net functionality. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.
One of these many "linux powered" PDA/Cell phone/mp3/dvd/electric toothbrush devices is actually produced... There's been a lot of vapor lately and the whole damn issue is getting too cloudy.
How long have we been hearing about the YOPY and the Agenda. Everyday there is some linux powered little device that has some nice bullet points on the companie's web page and look good at trade shows... but it's not in my pocket yet.
ah, yes.. but this has all three capabilities in one unit, without having to swap out springboard modules. granted, if you only want one or the other, and can live without the others, get a visor and live in the lap of software availability luxury..
but then, that's assuming there's no software for linux..
maybe Q3 isn't appropriate for an embedded linux celphone, but i could really dig MAME or any number of PIMs, notepad alternatives.. hey, an SSH client that could connect to my server remotely from my celphone would be keen to have, too...
hmm...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
> I vote for machine guns on the front of our
> vehicles!
Jeez, are you still stuck in Division 5? Don't you want lasers?
Chris Mattern
...where does the coffee come out of?
No Comment.
How much RAM/Flash RAM?
How fast is the Net connection?
Battery life/what does it use?
And the big one: what's it cost, both up front and monthly?
Anyone found answers?
Sorry, but I configured my voicemail to forward to /dev/null...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
You're making a dangerous assumption, if you ask me.. and that is that you'll have X available, you'll have Perl available, etc... For all you know this kernel is stripped down to the nubs for only *exactly* what they want to support...
;)
Hey.. that sounds a *lot* like the PalmOS now...
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
Or better... have a cron job to start the laundry every saturday at noon.
You just use the machine as a clothes hamper and every week they wash themselves. Perfect for bachelors.
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
Let's hope not, I've had two palms since birth and 3Com haven't sued me yet! ;-)
...cooks your toast, does your laundry, raises your kids...
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
It would be interesting to find out what happened to all the earlier stories that had the "it'll be interesting ..." comment affixed to them.
Probably nothing 9 out of 10 times.
If I could find PalmOS empulator for the Journada, I'd be set...
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
I smell vapor.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Hey, you never know what people will try to do.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
When I fly, I don't bother taking my laptop out (creating a scene and annoying those around me), but I'll have my Visor somewhere handy. Since cell phones can't be used at any point (except at the terminal) on a plane, why combine these technologies? It would be nice if there was a mechanism to turn off the cell searching/handoffs while leaving the PDA on. Although, even if the phone were off, I would rather not be the guy the old lady is looking at (and calling the flight attendants) because of his obvious disregard for the rules... even if I'm not breaking any!
"If you can keep your head while all those about you are losing theirs, then perhaps you have misunderstood the situation." -- The Long Run; Moran
Brian
Why no VA stock?
Sold it.
Just like I sold RHAT when it got nuts and bought it back when it dropped to it's current levels.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Prehaps a lawsuit? PlamPlam is a little too close to Plam. I could see 3com sueing. Heck, if I was 3com I would sue...
MarNuke
. . . there's a picture of the device here, and an interview with PalmPalm's CTO here.
Are you sure?
..dose this device allow software control of the audio stream, so that we can add good encryption. You can not trust the cell phone makers to add encryption which the NSA has not tampered with, so replacable software encryption is really the most importent feature (by far).
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
NightHawk
Tyranny =Gov. choosing how much power to give the People.
SO now I can write auto-targetting software on my PDA and link it wirelessly via Bluetooth to my bluetooth-enabled, Linux-running, MP3 synching machine guns to kill all those stupid people out there who are busy doing stupid things in there cars and killing people with there accidents. So where do I get one?
...and watching a movie all at the same time
I don't think the "Embedded QT" refered to QuickTime.
Pockel Linux is neat in the fact that it only relates to the kernel running it. Java based apps? I thought the reason to use linux was speed. now these guys want to slow it back down by using java. sheesh.
Why even waste time with linux? why didnt they just make a bootable JVM for the devices.. make it purely java.
Me? I think that java was a dumb idea to use for a pda, C is as easy to program and will run at least 9 times faster. (what? you gotta re-compile? OMG!!!!) Pda = small, tight, cleanly written apps that run fast... none of these things equate with java.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
An exhibition was opened after the completion of the development of world's first Embedded Linux smart phone. PalmPalm Technology Inc. had been engaged in a joint project with SK Telecom and Seoul National University since the beginning of this year on the development of [Linux-based CDMA/IMT-2000 smart phone]. In the upcoming exhibition, you will see SK Telecom's IMT-2000 smart phone loaded with ®Tynux, Embedded Linux operating system reengineered by PalmPalm Technology Inc.
The diverse and powerful functions of this IMT-2000 smart phone had been displayed at SK Telecom Central Research Unit in Bundang, on November 29th, in the presence of reporters covering the IT industry and other major related groups and individuals.
Besides having loaded Linux operating system, this smart phone (brand name; Palmi) that incorporates the functions of both cellular phone and PDA, also provides strong multimedia functionalities including animation, MP3, video communication, to name a few. In addition, with the help of its Bluetooth that enables high-speed wireless communication, playing network games among appliances is made possible.
Internet environment equivalent to that of desktops are also offered and its environment is especially optimal for wireless Internet appliances with its advanced resolution graphic system and low-power management functionalities.
Tynux, developed by PalmPalm Technology Inc. and released early this year, is an Embedded Linux operating system that strengthened the power & memory management as well as real time functionalities for multimedia data transactions. As such, SK Telecom's smart phone that has loaded this operating system may be the fist model to show that Linux can be the most optimized operating system for wireless Internet appliances.
While engaging in this joint development, PalmPalm Technology Inc. has also established strategic partnership with prominent application software companies worldwide. After integrating games (provided by Mdream, Korea), pen-recognition (provided by Diotek, Korea), Bluetooth (provided by Zeen, Korea), QT/Embedded (provided by Trolltech, Norway) and web browser (provided by Opera Software, Norway), PalmPalm Technology Inc. has performed performance & reliability tests before supplying the optimal programs in bundled forms.
Those related in the industry forecast that this announcement will provide an opportunity to prove that Embedded Linux is indeed the most adequate operating system for wireless Internet appliances, and will be a dividing line judging the potential success or failure of its becoming commercialized. Although there cannot be an absolute leader in the wireless Internet appliance market, the expectation of PalmPalm Technology Inc. becoming a forerunner in setting the standards in the market is something to look forward to.
[Appendix]
[Specification of IMT-2000 smart phone]:
Display and interfaces:
StrongARM SA1110 206MHz
4" TFT LCD display
Touch panel
Bluetooth interface
Camera
Voice codec for H.323
Serial and USB ports
[Software related to PDA features]:
Tynux(PalmPalm's embedded Linux) based on Linux Kernel 2.4.0
Trolltech's Qt/Embedded
Opera Web browser
H.323 protocol, VoIP
S/W MP3 player
Games
Pen Recognition
IMT2000 == "empty 2000" - sounds like a good vapor ware product to me.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Given that they beasties have an ir port, why hasn't someone gotten code out there to turn them into universal remotes? There's a technology developed by IBM called x-10 that replaces light switches and power outlets in your house. These units can then send messages over the house's electrical system. Further there's one unit that has an antenna and accompanying remote control. From there once you define signals and responses, you can control everything from said remote control. Then if folks pack their house with x-10 technology they can use their palm pilot (or whatever) to turn on the stereo, set it to NPR, turn on the lights to 50%, and start a pot of coffee -- and all before they get out of bed. IBM's patent on x-10 technology expired about three years ago, so it's getting pretty affordable these days.
I don't know the model number either, but at the moment there's a picture of a similar device on the IMT-2000 page of the SK Telecom company which is mentioned. Hmm... GSM, TDMA, Mobile Satellite Service... Probably not all in the same model.
Seriously. Does it matter? It's not like you can just bring up a shell and hack away. Imagine if, after years of using it, that it was announced that your current calculator of PDA actually ran a Linux kernel internally. Would it matter to you?
"networked"? Yeah, a couple of phrases in the press release suggest that the Linux-running processor does have access to the communication capabilities. Both phone and Bluetooth. So I agree it apparently has network access. Apparently it is not just a PDA glued to a phone, there are actual communication circuits available.
Currently, it's only available as a circuit board and CD for $3500. They aren't manufacturing it yet.
There does not appear to be an X server. They have licenced QT embedded, which writes directly to the display, and is closed source, and Opera, also closed source. They can run QT apps but not X apps. Since the graphics and GUI subsystems are closed source, you could compare this system with Mac OS X: open source kernel, closed source GUI. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy this puppy for the right price, but it does mean you shouldn't leap to unwarranted conclusions about what "Linux" means in the context of a product announcement like this.
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
Why simple machine guns, when you can use electricity? Lightning on demand and portable HERF guns can be found right here on slashdot... I'm personally trying to figure out how I can build that HERF to fit in my trunk to disable tailgators (or anyone that I can out accelerate, which is most cars on the road).
Known as graffiti or whatever is used on this thing for typing the wordy commands necessary to use Linux these days. Can just see the proliferation of shell scripts named a, aa, ab, ba, etc...
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both and deserve neither. - Thomas Jefferson
C is as easy to program and will run at least 9 times faster.
I'm not really a fan of Java for a number of reasons, but I laughed when I read this. Especially the part about how C is as easy to program.
Put down the (crack) pipe, think before you talk.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
He'd never get that on his subcompact without installing it in a turret and that'd put him WAY over his weight limit unless he upgraded the suspension and that'd cost to much so he'd downgrade the tires but then he'd need tireguards and that would lower his handling.... GOD I loved CarWars!
---
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
What's this about "Tynux" being a "re-engineered Linux developed by PalmPalm"? And you have to pay $2500 for the SDK, which includes a GCC based toolchain, Tynux kernel etc. licensed for educational and research use only (the SDK does include some development hardware, not just bits). But either Tynux is Linux (maybe a GPL violation if they're limiting redistribution) or it isn't (in which case why are they using the name Linux?). Or the SDK is some mixture of free and proprietary stuff that's hard to separate. Anyway, I'm not so happy, and I hope someone can check into this more carefully. Palm/3com have done well by making the development stuff open and these guys should do the same.
Suprized it took this long. Non-networked PDA's are only so much use.
With a name like 'Palmpalm', let's hope 'what comes of this' isn't a giant lawsuit.
El riesgo vive siempre!
So no, I can tell you that isn't as big as a lunchbox, doesn't look like a 50's style toaster, and, in fact, looks more functional than the Nokia Communicator, which up to this moment was my personal choice for best mobile phone ever. Very neat.
In fact this is half-way to what I've been predicting for moby phones for quite a while now. If it was me I would move the buttons off the front face (or better, virtualise them) in order to make more room for the display, and orient the dislay landscape rather rather than portrait, but... looks very usable. Not certain I believe in a colour display on a portable device, though -- eats too much battery.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
No need, man, it's been done.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
(Just wanted to see if I could make it to the first post!)
It looks like the Palm Pilot is quickly going to surpass Star Trek's data PADD-- all the functionality, without being dependent on the Enterprise's main computer core!
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"Every man, without exception, is full of it." -- Athanasius
It's pronounced parmparm, and it runs Rinux and has Bruetooth on it.
huh? please explain as to what in C is not easy.
NOTE: Microsoft Visual does not count. That is Obfuscated C, I'm talking ANSI C.
If you can program in perl or PHP then C is a cakewalk.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Besides having loaded Linux operating system, this smart phone (brand name; Palmi) that incorporates the functions of both cellular phone and PDA, also provides strong multimedia functionalities including animation, MP3, video communication, to name a few.
Mmhh, in view of the RIAA article earlier today, this baby is a fine definition of a portable crime tool. Video, MP3's, everything you could ever need...the only thing it needs is a CD-writer.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
The comments on whether linux is the "right" OS for a phone are made from a consumer's viewpoint. Maybe it was easier for the company that made the thing to get hold of linux or linux programmers than the palm OS. Maybe it was more fun for them to write. What I'm waiting for is a "Palm Pirate": hand-held device that will delete your files and sell your friends' contact information to the telemarketers. Arrh! Elaine (dimgraf@buoy.com)
I would really like for Embedded QT to take off in the handheld/linux space -- it's much better than using a toolkit on top of X windows...
________________________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Heh. That's exactly the point.
If your definition of easy is PHP and perl, then yes, C is more or less easy. I can't talk about PHP, but I would say that perl isn't very easy. Perl is easy to program in if you already know it, but the complex syntax makes it a pain.
C isn't easy for two very important reasons: pointers and manual memory allocation/deallocation.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Heh :) They should port Linux to my toaster, or maybe my washing machine... Maytag Linux OS (TM)... Hell, if all my appliances ran Linux, i could cluster them together and maybe make a kick ass seti@home machine or something... That will be the day... Yes sir, I would like the 10 processor Washer/Dryer set... I just outlived my quad processor set...
Sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind...
--
This is just stupid, with all those extra gadgets by the time you actually use it as a phone the battery will be dead.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
I vote for machine guns on the front of our vehicles!
--
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
My original comments subject line was: Hello >click<
Damn you!
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
After being /.'d
-p4
(c) All Rights Released.
has been /./.ed
"I've seen plays that were more exciting than this.
Honest to god... Plays!" Homer Simpson
Im sorry - but my money is clearly on the success of PocketLinux. What seems to be the best 'idea' is that we pair down Linux, build a GUI (why Xwindows? maybe XWindows is not 'appropriate' for Handhelds).
PocketLinux currently runs on Casio's E100, Compaq's iPaq & the VTech Helio. I think the 'real future' of pocket PC's, and if success for Linux will play out in this space is if a 'distro' is developed that is not to closely tied to one device - why not use Linux as the operating system to move the Handheld PC market away from the 'Apple' desktop idea to the 'IBM Clone' idea - where people install whatever (PocketLinux) OS on their current INSERT YOUR PDA HERE?
Have a look at all the PDA's that were @ Comdex 2000 - here at PDABuzz Look at all those beauty little PDAs, the question is are these obscure electronics companies from Asia going to build and 'market' a completely new OS for each of these devices? -OR- Would they be better off selling the device like a standard PC, with the attitude that users can find a OS to run on it. Wouldnt you rather buy a handheld for its hardware (the reason I bought the E100 10 months ago) or would you rather be forced to buy a OS/Hardware combo - where buying one may force you to compromise on the other.
Casio's E100 is a far better piece of hardware than anything fielded by Palm (even today - only advantage palm may have is size.. but its not that great an issue)
Palm's are small but their capabilities, speed, screens, audio(?) are less than optimal.
What I want is the PalmComputer market to move in the direction of the PC market - that way we can have our cake (hardware) and eat it too (PocketLinux).
What I would like to see: Both Palm and PocketPC get caught with their pants down (ala Apple in the 80s) while each of these "I have a wonder Palm PC but no 'marketing' or 'OS' to sell with it" (ala IBM Clone shops in the 80s) brings their product to market and aids Transvirtual in building PocketLinux. This basic change is bound to occur in the handheld space - Ill bet PocketLinux makes it happen...
Gorkman
humor for the clinically insane
great comedy company.
Hell yeah I love Linux Cell phones, whenever I want to do some useless crap on a piece a shit OS I just use my handy dandy cellhicular phone what got Linux on it. Hell Yeah!!!
"It's all right, it's ok. There's something to live for" - Uncle Bill
Will be another "Troll" from me about QT sucking. Well... maybe. It'd be nice to see GTK+ widgets in such a low-end system.... we'll see
Dave
Andamooka: Open support for open content.
You forgot Cuba in your Canada/Mexico/France thing.
Imperialism Canada
Altimiter, barometer, thermometer, gps, small geiger counter, heart rate monitor, infrared scanner, radar, and heck you got a tri-corder :)
I want shell, gcc, emacs on my PDA.
Relinquish
It's not that simple. To quote from trolltech.com, The open source version of Qt/Embedded will enable developers of free software to use Trolltech's embedded GUI application framework and windowing system under the terms of the GPL. Commercial customers will benefit from professional support and services and will not be restricted by the GPL licensing conditions.
These guys have a commercial licence for Qt/Embedded, it says so on their web site. So they are not restricted by the GPL licencing conditions, and I bet that means they don't distribute the source, which might be customized for their hardware.
Try to figure out the facts before opening your mouth.
Same to you, flame breath.
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
I read the "sodding article". Those pictures were not there when I read the "sodding article". But thank you for assuming I didn't read the "sodding article", and contributing with a condescending reply.
Anyone see how much it costs, or what it looks like? I didn't see anything on there site, but I could have missed it.
If the thing costs $2000, and is as big as a lunch box, and looks like a 50's style toaster, is it of any use?
While this company looks more legitimate than the airheads selling the "Delux DVD" mentioned a few articles back, with a name like "PalmPalm", how serious is this?
Oh well, I guess only time will tell.
Linux is a fine OS, guys.. But isn't using Linux for a cellular phone a bit like using a cannon to kill a flea? I mean, it's not like I can port Quake III for Linux to my PalmPalm cellphone.
And oh yes.. You can BET there's a lawsuit coming from THAT company name name.
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
With speech synth, it's a telemarketer's dream -- spam their email, and call them during supper!
"Plays MP3 and video, has bluetooth, and runs embedded Qt. And has net functionality."
damn.. does it slice, dice, mince, chop, and frappe' as well?
anyhoo, it sounds like the cel phone i've been waiting for. now i can get a niftee-tron celphone-o-matic with MP3, a linux interface and bluetooth that will ring really loud in the middle of a movie. or, better yet, i can tap tap tap on the little embedded Qt interface trying to find a phone number while i'm driving and kill a schoolbus full of kids!
no no no.. wait. i can play MP3s on the thing and look like the complete idiot in the commercials... with linux!
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
I can see it now...
"No, I didn't hang up, it was a core dump"
or
"Sorry, I would have called sooner, but I had to recompile my phone's kernel to support cigarette lighter adapters"
Martee
~~~~~~~~~~
Martee
Disclaimer: I haven't got a chance to read the article yet because of the /. effect.
But what I wonder is what license the Qt version will be? Will it be the Qt-semi-free-license or the GPL'd one. Either way some people are not going to like this.
Monkey sense
Seems like they are trying to bundle too much together in one device, so much that this thing would be realistic to use. Case in point: I use my mp3 player at the gym....its great because its tiny and can hold a substantial amount of music. I don't want to carry around a phone/pda/camera/mp3/coffee maker to the gym with me. Its small inconveniences like this that will kill the market for devices such as these.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
Even all concerns about the proprietary nature of Qt/Embedded aside, this simply doesn't make any business sense. At those prices, Palm would never have taken off and developed a market in small, useful applications.
You're right. IMT-2000 is the name of our (ITU) 3rd generation mobile project. See www.itu.int/imt/. It's a family of 3G systems and radio transmission technologies. The Asians are ahead of other countries in deploying 3G technology followed by the Europeans. NTT Docomo will deploy IMT-2000 W-CDMA systems in mid-2001.
It's nice to see so many people interested in Push Down Automata.
\forall code \in C, \frac{\Delta readability(code)}{\Delta t} < 0
Still, it seems to be a fairly interesting product. It would be interesting to see how reliable the Linux-based system is, given the complex list of supported features. Personally, I would be suspicious that the company is just cramming in features to make headlines without ironing out a lot of the details.
Don't get me wrong, I like MP3s, but I don't feel that I need them in a PDA.
So long as I can get a speaker to play some midi files (for alarms), I'm a happy camper.
If I'm going to be using my PDA, I'm most likely looking up data for work, what my schedule is, or (if it's got net access) looking up data at some website. The last thing I'll be doing is listening to music on it. That's why I have a CD player.
A mirror, please?
--
Unselfish actions pay back better
What's the difference between this and the countless other MP3 player/cellphone/PDA all-in-one gadgets, besides running Linux?