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Saint Song Releases "Linux-Compatible" Mini PC
10 Yogurts writes: "Saint Song Corp. recently announced the release of the Cappuccino G1, successor to their acclaimed pocket PC, the Espresso. Although no longer a "pocket PC," due to the docking bay's features being integrated into the unit, the Cappuccino is a very small (and very, very cool) set-top box--and Saint Song is specifically touting "Linux compatibility." What does the Cappuccino have that the Espresso didn't? How about S-Video and RCA outs, Ethernet, swappable DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive, V.90 modem, 16-bit sound, IrDA support, more bus ports, and a new chipset (i810E), to name a few. Impress Watch (Japanese text) has several photos of the box, including two interior shots. Tsukomo, also in Japanese, has even more photos, and is selling the units for ¥84,800 (about US$720)." It looks like a sleek little device - and is cheaper then the iPaq I bought from the shady looking store in NYC. But does anyone have more detailed information? Please post below, if so.
Hard legally? Very.
They wern't compairing it to the nifty ARM based linux compatible handheld computer. They were compairing it to the Compaq Ipaq low profile desktop. (compaq lables a buch of stuff ipaq now)
My anonymous brother, though rude, is quite correct. The 144-pin SoDIMM (small-outline DIMM) is quite standard and has been since the days of EDO.
From the company site...
...
2 5w inhec00.htm
See What Bill Gates talked about Espresso PC in WinHEC
2000
"... This device is called an Espresso PC, and this is actually a full active PC. It has a socket 370
810-based motherboard, so it will support Celeron or Pentium IIs,
128-megabyte of RAM, a 12-gigabyte hard drive. You'll notice right here is the touch pad for the
PC. So this is a fully functional, very active PC. On this one edge you'll see the ports for mouse,
keyboard, video, audio on the side. And if you want to add USB here, and if you want to add
networking, there's a spot for docking port, networking, CD-ROM, DVD. So you have a
companion device. So we're seeing this explosion of not only features and functionality in the PC,
but the PC is being driven to different new and exciting form factors.
" said Bill Gates, WinHEC 2000, New Orleans, Apr. 25, 2000.
Detail of this speech:
http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/04-
For some of us (ok, maybe just me) the smaller the better. Right now I use old laptops as my servers to cut down on noise and space. I would like to buy a "slim-pc" like the ones made by Sony or HP, but the cost is pretty high and they're still bulkier than this little puppy.
Oh, and just to note, current laptops are too big for my tastes since I commute on a motorcycle and its a pain to try and safely wedge a Dell Latitude into my tail bag.
I'm sure that most people who only have 1-3 computers have no problem with tower cases, but for those of us that have 5+ boxes and only one spare bedroom to shove them into, these are exactly what we're looking for.
Well, a lot of milk and some cacao. Mostly it is a matter of taste what you prefer.
They've also priced themselves out of the market for all but enterprise customers. Sure, that's a great business strategy, and they're making more money than ever, but it still leaves a gap at the lower end of the market. A home user with an ADSL line isn't going to be able to afford a Cisco box. Nor will a small business.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
To me, the obvious use is as a router and/or firewall box. The manufacturers obviously disagree, because they've only supplied it with a single network port. With two network ports, I'm sure these machines would have a real niche market to sell to. As it is, I just can't see who's going to buy them...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I wish that were true. Here in the UK, if you get the USB ADSL option, you can only connect a single computer to it (unless BT are lying to me, which I wouldn't completely rule out...). Thus, I need to get the Ethernet option. I guess I could try and find a USB10baseT converter, and use that to plug into the ADSL box, but it's a lot more hassle than just finding something with 2 network ports. A Qube or Netwinder would be great, but both are waaaay overpriced for what I'm after.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Yeah I'm as limp as a soggy piece of bread, but I'm HAPPY, ok? And it's not like I had a sex life to begin with...
--
"How many six year olds does it take to design software?"
dinner: it's what's for beer
I don't see why this machine is being compared to an iPAQ.. This is a "set-top box" not a handheld. Don't make us all excited for a *NICE* Linux handheld when it isn't anything of the sort.
Itself could it part of the new trend these days the non-pc. Why have a real computer when you can "something better" an easy to use system that is easy to use and set up. This what is to come in the future.
And i believe i have a couple of clarifications to make - The espresso also has s-video out, it doesn't have rca, but it has an internal 16-bit soundcard. Saintsong where talking about "linux compabílity" on the espresso too - i havent tried it yet though. Mine is equipped with a dvd docking station, 128m and p3 700mhz, under windows it doesn't feel like a 700, it's actually rather slow but it's kinda cute laying there on my tv playing divx's connected to the wireless k/b and mouse ;) , sucks having to use usb ethernet though...
Get the Gateway Connected Home Audio Player thingie. I have one and it's absolutely wunnerful.
It looks like a sleek little device - and is cheaper then the iPaq I bought from the shady looking store in NYC.
Hey those guys aren't shady. It just low overhead. You can get some great deals as long as you know what you are buying. I've gotten discontinued laptops from them for well under $1000.
Caveat emptor.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Now, if you've got more bandwidth than G-d, sure, then you're going to want something better, but I daresay you'd not be trying to do it on the cheap, either. Just plunk down the five grand for a Watchguard Firebox and be done with it. (although some of you purists out there will want to wait until they come out with a Linux front end.... :)
-- ;-)
See, you not only have to be a good coder to create a system like Linux,
you have to be a sneaky bastard too
[Linus Torvalds in < 4rikft$7g5@linux.cs.Helsinki.FI > ]
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/espresso/espre sso-1.html
"there once was a big guy named lou
whose limericks would end at line two"
I couldn't see the milk frother attachement either? What is going on?
Shame it's missing some sort of digital audio output. How hard can it be?
The dell/rio/empeg home audio reciever box is similarly impaired, which is even less forgivable.
I'd like to know how much heat these puppies put out, and how many you could fit in to a 1U rack space. 1000 machines/rack, anyone? I'll bet the
power cube situation would be a *bear*.
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
The company that I work for has 8 or 10 of these on order already. I will be beating on one as soon as we get them in and I am willing to post the results here. We had good luck getting Linux to run on the Espresso, even though the USB enet took a bit of work to get running with the 2.2 kernel. Steve Fuller
----
Re: the heat buildup and reboot problems. Have you ever noticed that your car fan keeps on running after you shut off the car? That's because there's all that residual heat left in the engine block. Same thing happens with computers.
If you've got a small computer running at the limit of it's thermal capacity when then fan is on - if it's turned off the temperature can quickly rise if the fan isn't left running. Then the temperature is too warm and problems ensue. You don't see this problem on most machines because they either let the fan run for a little after it's shut off or they can deal with the excess heat (ie big boxen with their (relatively) massive fans and lots of space inside)
slashdot username - at - email.domain.name
I had a little compact system like one of these and I ended up scavanging it for parts. It was cool, I liked it, and it was portable (It was a monorail - like this only with a 10.4" flat panel on the frone and a floppy drive), but the power supply on the damn thing blew and they wanted to sell me one for over $200.
I know - anything that is optimized for weight or whatever is bound to have proprietary parts, but I'd like to see what chipset and some reputation from a company that sells something like this before I would think about buying one again.
oh yeah - and no PCMCIA slot?
+++ ATH0 +++
That's strange, I thought that SDRAM DIMM's were 168 pin, unless this unit uses the so-called "notebook" DIMMs.
- Mike
... it's a wearable computer! Ok, so it's a bit larger than most of those, but if the price is really ~ $720 (US), then prepare to be frankenborged. Most of it should be obvious: just find the apropriate data I/O devices, plug them in and place it in an apropriately ventilated bag. Only thing I didn't see was a portable power source (did I just miss it, being just barely awake?) Presumably the device has an internal transformer which takes a little space; open box, remove standard power unit, replace with portable fusion reactor. (What?! didn't get yours?)
If you've got the $5k for an M2 monitor, you've almost got a sweet wearable for a total of $6k. That doesn't look bad to me; but then neither does cannibalizing by laptop's monitor and making a computer out of one of those nice leather paper pad covers.
More and more I think the wearable computer market is so small because no one is really trying.
Caveat: I just woke up. A logic functions are presently reduced to mathematical ones.
Then it'll be great for lan parties. No fuss, and very portable.
"You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
Cisco makes small, set-top box routers. They own the market, for god sakes, they're worth more than Microsoft. Is some little Japanese company going to try and take market share from them? I think not.
Their "list price" is usually well above the MSRP, and if you haggle, they'll bring it down, "special for you", to a price just around MSRP. No sweet deal.
Best you come armed with an ad from a competitor or a national chain showing what street price really is for the item you want.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/images/L2 27262-B21.jpg
Now all you need is a portable TFT display, maybe one of those cheaper Samsung flat panels, just saw off the pedestal. Don't know if it needs a special video card tho.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
Man, I wish I had a Beowulf cluster of these.
--------- Beware the dragon, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Here's some information in English:t m
http://www.saintsong.com.tw/it/english/prod/cg1.h
Well, not the Cappucino one, but with the espresso, figure out how to wire in a lcd and small (wince devices had a small keyboard) and you have a full, portable, very functional Linux system. What would ya use it for? PORTABLE MP3's! Will it support VBR? YOU BETCHA! Will it support higher then 128 KBps? YUP! I wouldn't mind having one for on the bus. With a wireless internet connection would make it even better. It's also faster then the Xybernaut! :) Hey I wonder if you can order the Xybernaut wrist Keyboard, and wrist LCD and make it work with this espresso machine! :)
Gorkman
MP3 read/write
Cd and DVD player
Hook it on my Home Cinema
Only twist : digitize video input... And no way to dipatch a blinking 12:00.
Anyone interested ?
www.ibuypower.com sells these.. they are the authorized use reseller. look for the "Pocket EPC-2"
I encountered 2 problems with it-
1- It overheats. if you leave it turned on for a while, and then try to reboot, you're out of luck - you'll have to let it cool down for 15-20 minutes before you can power it up again. it just gets way too hot, and i don't see how the Espresso will be any different.
On a side note, can someone explain to me why it is that when it overheats it hangs on boot up? it seems strange that it works fine while running, but then at boot up it hangs - is it some bios check its doing?
2- size/shape is unwieldy. See the setup they have in the photo? where it's plugged into the computer? that's fine and all, but the cables are so thick compared to the pocketpc that you really need to brace the pocketpc down, or else it'll end up on the floor, like ours did. (though it is durable! a meter drop to the ground and it's still working!) And of course if you plan on bracing it down, keep in mind it needs lots of ventilation.
Otherwise, we haven't really found a use for it. sure it's small, but so is a laptop, and a laptop comes with a battery and pcmcia slots as well. I bet this thing would go nicely in your car as an mp3 player, but once summer comes around, it'll just overheat too much.
-f
-f
www.blackant.net
Ok, $700 for the Cappoccino, and $50,000 for my mini-satillite. Hmmm, just about $49,700 shy of what I need.
What this needs is a cheap "dumb" terminal that folds up like a laptop (keyboard and diplay). Then you'd have a travel machine (DVD,MP3,etc.). But -- I agree -- why not a laptop at that point. Someone should take something like this and glom it onto a cheap projector, then add a wireless keyboard. That would be a cool travel package -- watch 6'x4' DVD on your hotel wall.
boxen? You mean boxes?
boxen has a diffrent meaning;
Boxen Box"en (bo^ks"'n), a.
Made of boxwood; pertaining to, or resembling, the box
. (Buxus). R.
The faded hue of sapless boxen leaves. --Dryden.
---
Desperation is a stinky cologne
Does it implement HTCPCP ?
It's name would suggest yes but it doesn't seem to be apparent on the specs.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
I was wondering, why get one of these new fangled 'set top mini box PCs', when you could buy one of these old-fashioned 'normal PCs' at half the price?
If you go look at the pictures, you will realise this device is hardly larger than the CD drive!
Any "normal" PC is a large clunky beast in comparison. This thing looks smaller than a Dreamcast.
I just wanted one of these, and a titanium macintosh to link it up to.
But what's the point without a 400 bps network? Get back to the blueprints...
Has anyone noticed how much the packaging resembles Apple's Powerbook packaging? This unit reminds me of an IA/Cube/Laptop hybrid. AJ
I would want one of these for an in car mp3 server, it's the perfect size. I have thought about looking at 1u rackmounts to put in my trunk, but this thing could sit under my seat!. I gotta wonder tho, how resistant to bumps it is.. and heat (shut off)... It would also be great for using at the concert hall i work for. Small enough to get locked away and easily portable.
Consider yourself blessed if you are sneezed on by a dragon and only get wet, it could have been a fireball.
Because a normal PC is clumsy and has too many cables.
I would trade my normal PC for this computer any day, it is easily fast enough and it wont take any space om my writing desk.
I think PC's like this will be an important part of the future of desktop computing. But that is just my opinion.
Whats yours?
A bit more expensive than the Japanese price mentioned in the article... never heard of the vendor before...
They list the old model, too.
Of course, your comment is slightly invalid because StrongARMs are made by Intel!
You're right though - why anyone would use an x86 in one of these devices is beyond me. Surely ARM has that market sown up by now?
arnald
fyi, here's another new "tiny" linux-based set-top box from Asia. This one, called the canD contains a National Semiconductor MediaGX processor, with 8MB ROM and 16MB SDRAM memory. The unit provides 2 USB ports for connection of external peripherals such printers and digital cameras, and a 10/100 Mbit Ethernet port for connection to the Internet. Other external connections include stereo audio output, video out, and S-Video. It's internal embedded linux OS is XTinux from Coventive and it uses the AXIS NetFront browser.
I was wondering, why get one of these new fangled 'set top mini box PCs', when you could buy one of these old-fashioned 'normal PCs' at half the price? Both of them are Linux-compatible, which is surely the important part?
Does my bum look big in this?
Surely these things (as cool as they are) will be squeezed out by laptops ? I suppose the niche market is impromtue Halflife/Quake/Diablo Lan parties.
--
Jon - TheSpork
I would like to have something like this for LAN parties, but the GFX is not good enough. If they could make an improvement there, this would be an awesome machine for a LAN party, you could just plug it into a TV and rock. blade
http://www.ohlssonvox.com
I could imagine maybe it being somewhat portable with some good VR glasses maybe And can you get these without a proc or RAM? I can't be the only person with a spare CPU laying around.... and I was planning on using that celey 466 ina new linux box anyway.... -Caino Don't touch my .sig there!
One question: How does it handle heat disipation without a fan? Seems to me that touchpad's gonna get a little warm, isn't it?
ok looks cool, but the bottom line is - can u get anything useful done on it. With 810 chipset, battery life is to small to use it as a notebook/pocketpc, and it looks pretty bulky. Better off with a vaio
be aware that this is for the japanese market.
Cuteness here sells- whether or not it works or not is irrelevant. A small cute colourful pc will be extremely popular
i am from the deep south and i have friends in high places
I stopped by one of SaintSong's authorized dealers and picked up two Cappuccino units - I love em (the power light is BLUE!!)... Anyways, I was surprised to see the cost on each unit was almost $400 less than IBuyPower.com... If you got it from them - I feel sorry for ya, they are making WAY TOO MUCH on the units.