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Bell Labs Creates Plastic Superconductor
hoffmanm8 writes "Extending AT&T's grasp on every convieable non-software tech thing, scientists @ Bell Labs have found a way to make a plastic superconductor. (NYTimes, requires free registration).
This could be pretty cool/scary unless, of course, the plastic superconductor is to the early 2000's as 'cold fusion' was to the late 20th Century."
And while you're at it "conceivable"
and now off to read the story...
Try http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/03/08/science/08SU PE.html. (Replace the `www' with `archive'. `Partners' doesn't work any more.)
Plastic solar cells already wrap around yacht booms (I know, I know, critical application, yadda yadda yadda, but if selling luxury items drives down the cost of useful stuff, so be it). Flexible electronics might mean a hat-brim display that survives being sat on, programmable jersey numbers for sportsmen, a TV that you unroll and hang on the wall/projector-screen-stand, and finally to useful stuff like truly wearable computers, rolled-up satellite in-a-can, stick-on intelligent medical monitors, electronics that survive vibration and impacts better (process control, remote sensing, satellites, even mobile 'phones that you can, enraged, safely hurl at the pavement...), ``sensi-peril'' windscreens (ie automatically darken just the spot around the oncoming headlights), and so on.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
In space, where solar panels don't deface the landscape, and don't require precious earthbound resources to make, and beam it down with microwaves (whose receiving antennae can be blended in to any of a number of other structures).
A pity that NASA's recent budget cuts just canned testing of the vehicles necessary to do this. Complain to your poltician if you care.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
/me slaps you around a bit with a wet trout.
Work is for people who lack the imagination to play.
What advantages, exactly, will plastic semiconductors have over our current system?
Poopdick.
it's my understanding that at&t built their own labs division again....
is this not the case?
Peter
i'll bite on this.
yes, the term plastic at its original definition certainly was an adjective, not a noun, but as in all things, meanings become overloaded or change as society changes.
i think it's safe to say that at this time in our culture in the *united states* (i make no claims to understand any other culture), plastic is both an adjective AND a noun, like it or not. (it's not like you'll ever change the masses on this one anyway)
just my 0.02.
Peter
maybe alan macdiarmid? he's at penn, in the chemistry department (and somehow connected with the lrsm, the building across the street from me) and he just won the nobel prize in chemistry for plastics that are conductors, or some such thing (i am not a chemist).
- pal
Which is it? Semiconductor or superconductor (can't be bothered getting an NYT login to check)?
Yep, when they were under AT&T control, Bell Labs haven't inovated a lot.
...)
(fiber optics, comms satellites, transistor, unix, c, cellular phone networks,
(and just a few nobel prizes)
#include "coucou.h"
Plastic is a desciption of a quality of a material, not a description of composition.
A material is plastic if it can undergo plastic deformation - ie, it doesn't bouce back to its original shape when bent/twisted (opposite of elastic deformation)
There is no proviso that a plastic be made from hydrocarbons - however, most hydrocarbon compounds tend to have good plastic properties.
Russ %-)
... and never, ever play leapfrog with a unicorn.
Bell Labs is part of Lucent
Actually we do have the means of making diesel fuel from a renewable resource. It's called Bio-Diesel, and it's created from the oil of soy crops. I don't have a link handy, but it's out there all over. In fact there is a van I think the drove clear across the US on nothing but the stuff.
One atom, supercooled, superconducting, cold fusion powered computers, coming to your inkjet printer today!
If they were under the size of a bucket, then you could say bye bye to your PC power supply and use water to power your PC (300W), Monitor (100W), and various expansion devices.
Of course, this ain't much use if a small reactor is bigger than a house.
Oh, and in traditional sarcastic Slashdot fashion, I'll believe it when I see it! :-)
I Am Not A Layperson, and I am not aware that anyone knows anything about how to construct a quantum mechanical computer.
Sounds more to me like a journalist who likes to spice up their writing with pseudoscience.
But, now that cancer is getting more and more curable, maybe quantum computing will become the new universal justification for grantwriting?
> Ceramics on the other hand, are made up of materials which make up 20% of the earth's crust...
With what shall we make the energy to melt the earths crust into ceramics? Surely not fossil fuels. Nukes? Wind?
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but since plastic polymers tend to follow a thread-like structure (which gives them the flexibility, strength, etc) instead of the more common crystalline formations of other known superconducting materials, wouldn't that lessen their usefulness at any temps colder than your suggestion of liquid nitrogen?
I would assume that a lot of the benefits from plastic would be negated by the temperatures necessary to superconduct... since the threaded polymer structure would be frozen past any point of flexibility as well as being structurally weaker then the crystalline alternatives in a rigid state. So, even if you can mold the material easier, once in superconducting environments you lose a large portion of the very reasons why you wanted plastic in the first place.
The other metal-like materials can still run at warmer temps, would be able to deal with a higher resistance to breakage/warping, and can also be molded into wires, albeit not as easily (which you stated and I agree on). That really only leaves cost factors...
I still don't see the point... unless they can significantly increase the temp at which plastic superconducts in some manner which I highly doubt given the very conducting-resistant nature of plastic itself!
Like I said, anything that can conduct electricity at some minute level could superconduct under optimal conditions. The hard part is finding stuff that will do so in conditions that neither negate the efficiency gains of superconducting (environment control too high etc) nor limit the usefulness & adaptability of the superconducting material itself.
So far, the other metal-like stuff is way ahead in those regards.
Do not taunt Happy-Fun Ball
Fossil fuels are the end result of the breakdown of biomass over time. Biomass meaning living stuff. Meaning as long as we have life on earth we will have a renewing supply of fossil fuels. The only limiting factor of this resource is the amount of.. uh.. processed(?) fuel... and the length of the processing.
:)
Just think of it as a really slow drive-thru. You know the burger's are coming out eventually but in the meantime you could starve to death if you ran out of rogue french fries on the floor.
Hmm.. That's gotta be the weirdest analogy for conservation I've ever seen. Yep, I am having a stupid day after all
Do not taunt Happy-Fun Ball
I knew I'd find a use for all of those Publix plastic grocery bags I've been hoarding in the pantry.
A few gallons of liquid hydrogen, and I'll have those grocery bags setup as a beowolf cluster rendering pictures of Natalie Portman, floating nude in a sea of hot grits in no time.
--- Generation X: The first generation to have SIG lines inferior to their parents... ---
Hello, the companies split years ago. AT&T gains no hold over anything due to this.
--Carl
You forgot: All your superconductors are belong to us.
:-)
News about the Kettle Open Source project: on my blog
border of course.
Shees!
News about the Kettle Open Source project: on my blog
I'm thinking that the advantage would be in the molding process. You draw into wire at 250 degrees Farenheit. You wrap it around the core at room temperature. Once you've gotten your 10-gazillion loops of the plastic stuff to make your nifty supermagnet, you drop it into the ice bath (read: liquid nitro) and it starts to superconduct. You can't do that with the ceramics.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
www10.nytimes.com/2001/03/08/science/08SUPE.html (just has a '10' in there)
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Nope read your physics book again. As the universe gets older entropy will increase the disorganization of the universe. Also, modern Physics seems to show that we are in an "Open Universe", or a "Flat Uninverse." In either case the Universe will keep expamding forever, give or take a few 100 trillion years. :)
When you spread a finite amount of energy over a expanding volume the energy density will decrease, or in other words, it will get colder.
A prime analogy is Slashdot itself. As a discussion increases in age the number of useless, uninformed, or ignorant posts such as yours increase to the point where a the whole thing in completely disorganized.
And BTW if you are indeed an Anonymous Coward then why bother signing your name "dufus?"
Later
Mick D.
Is this the end yet?...How 'bout now...how 'bout now...how 'bout now?
Oh go on, mod me up for a Ringworld reference!
-- What do you need?
-- Gnus. Lots of Gnus.
What happened to the company in texas that claimed cold fusion in 95. It seems they dropped off the face of the earth can anyone post what happened with them as I must have returned to my rock around that time and did not emerge until after the dust settled.
single atom transistors? Ohh....
a "mole" of molecules can weigh up to...Damn, I can't remember, and I can't find it either, I believe it's several tons, anybody know?
:)
Ramex® is an Ultrahigh Molecular Weight Polyethylene having a molecular weight range between 3 and 6 million.
So 6 million grams = 6.613867865546328 US Tons
So "several" was a good estimate
Of course, although 'Cold Fusion' did not seem to turn out to be any form of fusion, it is still a viable energy source, with small 'reactors' capable of creating 500 W of useful energy from water.
Now, the question is will we see the same thing with plastic superconductors? And even more important: What temperature do they have to be to superconduct?
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
I do remember one particular item featured on Beyond 2000's precursor show, 'Towards 2000'.
You may have seen them around - small disc thingies made of plastic with lots of tiny holes in them. Store music on them, and read it off with a laser. All very fancy. I think Phillips had something to do with it.
Here's the next utility killer app:
Hollow fiberoptic strands using dielectric mirrors to transmit light without loss in the strand cavity, wrapped in superconducting plastic to transmit electricity without loss.
Nope, but jupiter might have some metallic hydrogen
Ummm... last I checked you had to go to Jupiter to get liquid hydrogen. Has this changed recently?
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
...which just so happens to be LIQUID. It also has lots more nonmetallic liquid hydrogen.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Bell Labs is owned by Lucent, not AT&T. You can by the coffee stain in the upper-right corner of their webpage.
>This could be pretty cool/scary unless, of >course, the plastic superconductor is to the >early 2000's as 'cold fusion' was to the late >20th Century." Oh great!!!! Another weak plot for a Val Kilmer movie!(i.e. The Saint) Correct me if I'm wrong but that's about all that happened, scary or otherwise, with cold fusion in the 20th century.
Insert something witty and technical here or was that technically witty...I forget sometimes.
A plastic superconductor is cool, yes, but 'scary?' I can see how something like infinitely scalable quantum computers might be a little scary, simply because of the potentially mind-boggling computing power and the fundamental changes that would follow. A plastic superconductor -- a different twist on an existing technology -- doesn't baffle me with possibilities. All I can see are the cool potentials, like flexible superconductive cabling, or the cost of manufacturing superconductors being low enough to offset their maintenance (i.e., keeping 'em cold).
uh, nobody is thriving right now...doesn't mean lucent isn't doing better than Bell would be if it was still AT&T right now.
Ça plane pour moi, moi moi moi moi !
Uhuhuuuuh !
Liquid HELIUM.
Any spoon would be too big.
Enough already...must we "Imagine a Beowulf cluster" of every damn new technology that apears in Slashdot?
Right - AT&T's lab is called, creatively, "AT&T Labs". Lucent's lab is "Bell Labs" Dave
Given that plastic semiconductors are already in use, the answer to your question is, "yes".
If you mean plastic superconductors, the answer to your question is still, "yes".
Quantum computers?
Yes.
How about space elevators?!
Given the big bag of cheesies that I just polished off and the party-sized SunChips® that I'm currently eyeing, I probably won't live long enough to see space elevators. But if we have any five-year-olds reading /., they might.
-deane
Gooroos Software: plugging you in to Maya
-deane
I don't know what the advantage to a plastic semiconductor is, would someone explain?
"Cornflakes are not the innocent critters they seem"- Sterling Morrison
Did anyone ever see that Australian tv show Beyond 2000? So many wonderful inventions they showed. How many of those are you using today?
Slashdot is just like Beyond 2000. Will any of us ever see plastic semiconductors in use? Quantum computers? How about space elevators?!
You may now return to reality.
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
If my memory is correct, someone even got a Nobel Prize for doing this several years ago..
Will code a sig generator for food
BTW You probably don't want to see this either. And we's USers, not USians.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
No, you just get funny looks, which translate to thoughts in the observers head "memo: probably shouldn't invite this person ever again."
If you go into detail on the proper use of LEGO as an adjective, rather than plural noun, you get concerned looks, which translate to thoughts of "memo: Never, ever, under any circumstances invite this person to a party ever again."
OTOH, If you utter such clever contrivances as, "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of overclocked superconductor Legos doing THIS" and then having a seizure, you are virtually guaranteed admiring looks of approval and a spot on the "A" list.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I would actually think that "Any operating system sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from BeOS" would be more appropriate. Linux is, sadly, the last thing I think of when I think "advanced" or "magic." I mean, its inspiration was Minix, and frankly, other than (a lot of) hardware drivers and some added necessary POSIX system calls, it hasn't really advanced much beyond that. The only real plus for Linux is that it is open source. Now, a completely modular, modern day operating system like BeOS, open sourced, with plenty of drivers and software... Mmmmm.
"Watch these suckers jump when I get Administrator."
In any event, here is a decent beginner's explanation of quantum computing. It can easily be read in less time than Timeline, although arguably less entertaining, if you're into sword-fighting.
"Watch these suckers jump when I get Administrator."
I didnt create these, but if you don't have a login for the New York Times site, use these: l: slashdot2001 p: slashdot2001 i believe l/p "slashdot2000" also works. Hope this helps.
Naw, not really. Consider:
Super Man
aka The Man of Steel. An alien humanoid who wore blue and red and kicked the bejeezus out of the bad guys.
Semi Man
aka Optimus Prime. Made of steel. An alien robot who wore blue and red and kicked the bejeezus out of the bad guys.
Today's sig brought to you by http://www.swankypimp.com
I seem to remember something like this being posted before...let me think...ahh yes http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/31/035323 4&mode=thread
Hey thanks a lot, I don't feel so dumb now, and thats generally a good thing!! :)
While polymers are often hard to work with, we are gaining a lot of knowledge on the workability of the molecular structure of polymers and synthetics. Therefore, this expands our possibilites. The size of polymer molecules are enourmous when compared to those of others, in fact, polymer molecules are the largest known to man.
Example: A Mole is a collection of 600,000 billion billion molecules. In Salt, this comes to about 18 grams. In Polyetheylene, however, (used for milk jugs, etc,...) a "mole" of molecules can weigh up to...Damn, I can't remember, and I can't find it either, I believe it's several tons, anybody know? It's far, far more, and that's the point I'm trying to make.
Anyway, I'm getting offtopic. Due to the workability of polymers, it only makes sense to use them in every way possible. Their inherent size gives us many options.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am) but aren't plastics akin to big tangles of threads, whereas normal superconductors have forms that are crystalline? Wouldn't freezing a plastic put incredible stress on the chemical bonds, and eventually cause the whole whatever-the-superconductors-are-used-in thing to fall apart?
I think...
Uh, ALL YOUR CHEMISTRY ARE BELONG TO US!
There, now I HAVE TO get modded up.
Yep, you can buy it at many Tankstellen here in Germany.
--
Every bloody emperor has his hand up history's skirt [Peter Hammill/VdGG]
It depends on how you define "geek factor." The point is clearly not this particular material - which, as the article stresses, is not a superior superconductor. The point is pushing the qualities of superconductivity into a whole new realm of materials, particularly one that has not been thought to be open to it. Most superconductors and superconductor research is not at the application phase. It is about learning the secrets of electrical conductivity with an eye towards eventually applying them. This is an important milestone, but the fruits will probably not appear for another decade or so.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Which is odd, as plastic doesn't conduct electricity in my experience.
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
The actual term "cold fusion" refers to a process that has yet to be provable in Einstien's original theory. The idea is producing large amounts of energy, from the merging of atoms, at radiation variant that is within limit of biological toleration. This is, in that form, impossible.
Now, what exists in our fun little world is TOMAHOK, a fusion chamber that produces large amounts of energy, but only some of which can be converted. It barely makes surpasses the "break even point," that is the point at which more energy was produced than was required to produce and maintain the reaction. Right now, the project has reached a stage where it can power a whole city block of residential housing for about eight months.
It's not cold fusion, but it is fusion, and it leaves no nasty reminants that have to be stored a mile beneath some mountain...in a desert...far away from me...yet, ironically close to Las Vegas...guess no one will notice a giant green luminescent monster there...since there's already eighty of them....
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
RE: What's in name
/. users:
.sig.
TOKAMAK is the name of the project; I'll ask that you understand that I haven't heard much of it in the last year or so, and around midnightish, it all sort of blends together
RE: Nuclear Remination
It's not bombarded by high energy neutrons; that is how one begins a FISSION reaction. There have only been to chambers in the projects history, and the original was damaged during maintainance, making it unsafe for reuse. One could say, even if what you claimed were true, that the same is true for the U 236 fission reaction used in most current nuclear plants, who's chambers ALSO continue to be reused, except, as I pointed out in the continuation of the comment, "that do not need to be stored a mile underground...," there is no byproduct that needs to be carefully stored, such Po 216
RE: A note to other
I often do not make myself as clear as possible and am bound to make mistakes, but I am not one to spread on the bs, so, if you catch something, or I get marked a troll, feel free to ask for clarification, or enjoy my
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Don't you just hate it when you reply to the wrong article and not notice until after you see the whole page it's been posted too?
The question is, do I copy and move in hopes of balancing out my offtopic karma deduction, or hope for TMAO (then, a miracle occurs, a replacement for ICBS, it can be shown, though, if you jump too far, people will just say it stands for I see b.s.)
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Yes, you are wrong.
A) Not all superconductors are of a crystalline structure, in fact, crystal-like and crystal-based superconductores are the minority.
B) C=C, whether single, doubled or tripled, shared or humologous, bonds would not be put under any stress. Since all electron fields would collaps, as polar molecules, such as water or crystals, would not be directly formative
C) If the contraction rate is properly controlled, it wouldn't effect the overall unit or the conducting material
D) If the contraction rate were uncontrolled in anything, yeah, bonds and molecular groupings would begin to seperate, thus makinc C, D and your latter cause of concern moot.
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Not having a beowulf cluster to complete the calculation for me, I do believe the number has the number for in it if calculated into ounces...followed briefly by the number eight....then, there's a lot of zeros....after that, you can convert that into whatever the schmeck makes you happy.
Can we go shopping now?
Who's up for volleyball?
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Which, I may be, since I mis-appropriated a reply on a similar article, but has not Berkly AND MIT already started in the world of quantum computing? Has this not already been THREE slashdot articles? Granted, this may not be something that I use on my desktop computer in the next century, but I'm hopeful.
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
For my self, I am very familiar with the interactions of the universe on the quantum level, but Crichton's "Timeline" is the only book I have read that even makes a hint to it in the world of pulp fiction*.
I did enjoy the novel, and also enjoy sword fighting, though, the book was given to me because of the beginning. Now, if I recall, does not fortune remind us of Arthure Clark's famous quote, "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."**
*It's not just a movie; it's also the category of the most heavily bought fiction--those just published yesterday legal thrillers and...well, actually, that's about 90% of the pulp I actually see people with, but, typically, anything published by someone who's only been writing for twenty years, or is still alive, and writes remarkably often, like Stephen King, is considered pulp.
**I apoligize if I get the quote wrong. If you prefer..."Any operating system sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from Linux."
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Now go back to sleep
Having to tell people affiliations is a full time bznez*
*produced out of sheer boredom
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
referring to timothy's post, how is this "SCARY?"
yep AT&T only kept a small part of the original Bell Labs, strangely enough its called AT&T labs. It is specific to communication tech these days.
This is a Sig, there are many like it but this one is mine! I wish I had more than 120 chars... whats a char?
With the extensive probing into quantum machinery**, the question is, "How soon will it be that processors create their own dimension to perform advanced mathematical calculations. The question is, "When will be using planck's width to record data rather than Fe-Si combinates?" The question is, "Will the term 'wireless' come to mean that a small quantum bridge is created by the computer to read the data on another computer atoms?" Or, one of my friend's favourite questions: Will a molecule count as a network? You can keep your one atom transistors, I'm waiting for the chance to upgrade to a 2 1 H isotope!***
*No replies on the one-sided Fox special, please
**This has actually been around for a few years already, and has been mentioned on slashdot a few times, as well as making it to Michael Crichton's "Timeline", as a background to the ideas conveyed in the story.
***Don't tell me not to hold my breath, that, too, is another AnonCow-esk comment
**Disclaimer: Opinions cited by me are not necessarily my opinions. Facts cited by me are not necessarily facts.
Before marking that post as 'Insightful', 'Interesting', or in any way modding anything up, I invite you to first visit The trollta lk si d. This is where all the trolls hang out and post links to their work. If you see a post linked from trollta l k, do not mod it up!
I remember sony claiming to have found an inexpensive method of manufacture for plastic drive platters (inexpensive due to lack of need for metal polishing). Although it was said to be fairly low density, and speed (due to plastic becoming "floppy" when rotated at higher speeds) the low cost warranted its existence....but have we seen these on the market? No. I doubt this will catch on...people are willing to pay up for metal.
Didn't Bell Labs go with Lucent after the spin-off?
Fusion, in one form or another may be the next source of clean energy. They've already perfected the process enough to get out of the system as much energy as they put in in Japan. It might not be ready on an industrial scale yet, but its on its way. I see no reason to discount something as important a a new superconductor so quickly (as the story implies) before it has had its chance to flourish. At any rate, its not a waste.
While a comment farther down describes ceramics as 'making up x% of the world's surface' the fact is that the particular ceramics that are showing promise for high temperature superconductors are not at all common - they're expensive and difficult to draw into wires. Plastic superconductors might have promise (solving the wire and the cost issue), but only if the temperature can be increased - at least to the temp of liquid nitrogen. The interesting part of this is that it does represent superconduction in carbon based molecules. Not sure if that has been seen before.
Bell Labs (now Lucent) show that breaking up a monopoly won't destroy innovation as Steve Ballmer will try to tell you. If anything, Bell Labs is more productive today than it was thirty years ago, when it was still trying to figure out how to rig statistics to show why it was economically unfeasible for consumers to own their own telephones. If you break a company up into little bits as AT&T was (and as Microsoft should be), then the innovative bits will thrive.
No, you have misremembered. Hydrogen liquefies at roughly 30K at 1 atmosphere, and liquid hydrogen is used as a rocket fuel (the shuttle external tank is mostlyu full of liquid hydrogen, for instance).
If you want to liquefy hydrogen at room temperature then you do need rather extreme pressures, such as those found in Jupiter. In fact, Jupiter is big enouygh (probably) to squeeze hydrogen into a liquid metallic state, which is really interesting. A liquid of protons in a sea of electrons.
Oddly enough, some fossil fuel reserves (to the confusion of the geologists involved) do actually self-replenish, existing reserves useable for plastics (coal/oil shale etc) are truly staggering anyway, and finally, you can make coal in the lab in less than half an hour from agricultural byproducts, so doing it industrially at reasonable cost can soon be made viable if need be.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
A few people are saying "What's this good for? Why do we need this?"
Very few things are discovered on purpose - think the Light Bulb versus Becquerel and atomic energy. If they had discovered some neato trick that would let you turn old tupperware into a PC, people would say "Why aren't we researching more?"
So don't complain about the lack of use in research projects. The farther a scientist reaches to find an answer, the more likely he'll discover something that we *will* be able to use.
Well, to be nitpicky, the ideal superconductor would also remain superconducting up to above the temperatures of a jet engine. Possibly switchably (though that might be a bit dangerous). And would support high current densities (i.e., resistant to having superconductivity surpressed by magnetic fields ... though in that case how do you switch it without literally breaking the circuit).
... I want my desires to avoid polutants). etc.
O, and it would also be cheap, easy to make, reasonably stable, but not environmentally persistant, indigestible to bacteria while in solid form. Soluable in, o, say anhydrous ethyl ether (not benzene
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
One problem with all of these articles from the NYTimes (other than having to register, GRRRR) is that they don't always seem to know what they are talking about in the Engineering fields (of course the Washington Post is no better if not worse).
They seems to imply that the superconducting effect is created by applying a field effect to the polymer chain. Then right after that they instead imply that it is just forming a FET (type of transistor). Not much clarity.
If they did form a superconductor through field effect (created a superconducting channel in the FET) then the possibilities are interesting. The temprature may rise faster than rare earths and conventionals, but unless the effect is self forming when current is applied its application may be limited. Also, as in all FETs the carrying of current may pinch off the circuit causing a very low critical current (ordrs of magnitude lower than other types of superconductors).
I'll wait and see what Science News has to say about it next week.
--Ben
I understood Moores law* as applying to conventional silicon-based transistor circuits, not to other technologies like quantum computers. If thats the case then Moore's "law" has held up pretty well so far.
* Yes I know its not a law in the conventional scientific sense.
We can manufacture oil from any combination of things containing carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. It's just not worth the expense because the stuff is just sitting around waiting to be pumped out of the ground.
Most of that expense is energy. If the "fossil" fuels run out (some scientists believe that it was formed with the Earth, and there is such a vast supply that it is practically infinite, as the rock supply is), we'll switch to nuclear energy, whether fission or fusion, which will be so much cheaper and more plentiful that such expenses will be affordable (current fission is too expensive primarily because it is constantly held back for political reasons).
IOW, the faster we run out of oil the better, if you ask me.
At any rate, none of the current electronics technology will be relevant after a few decades, so only short-term pricing matters. You don't need to guess at supplies of raw materials a hundred years from now.
---
So this steel wire I'm holding is plastic? I can bend it, and it stays bent. Smells like plastic deformation to me.
Yes. Steel wire is plastic when bent past its critical point. Glad to see you're catching on :-) It is elastic when the deforming force is small.
Or perhaps you don't realize that most people use the term "plastic" to mean "polymer".
Thats exactly what I do realise, and what I was trying to impress upon the madding throng. Most people use the term plastic incorrectly, by using "plastic" to refer to a large group of hydrocarbon based long chain polymer solids commonly found in drink bottles, etc. It doesn't. The term "Plastic" is a property, not a material; an adjective, not a noun.
People who use the term "plastic" don't mean "polymer" either. The term "polymer" doesn't mean what you seem to think it does; a polymer is a ANY material which forms long repetitive chains of identical molecular groups. Again, Hydrocarbons tend to form nice polymers, but they are by no means the ONLY molecules that form polymers.
Drink bottles, etc, are made of a hydrocarbon based polymer which have the property of being plastic; however, this is a _VERY_ small subset of the materials which are 1) plastic, 2) polymers, or 3) both.
The NY Times article doesn't go into enough detail about the composition of Polythiophene to make any specific comments about its molecular composition; but the fact that it is a plastic polymer does not require that it is in any way related to the "plastic" in a drink bottle, nor that it will require hydrocarbons and crude oil to create said "plastic superconductor".
BTW, do linguistic semantics give you a woody? I'm just wondering.
Yes. They do. The English language is a beautiful thing, and there are so many enormously precise ways of expressing exactly what you mean. It seems a waste to restrict yourself to the lowest common denominator of grunts and bellows.
Russ %-)
... and never, ever play leapfrog with a unicorn.
Batlogg's group is amazing. A few months ago they demonstrated the first crystalline organic laser and first crystalline (not plastic) organic superconductor. As it says in the article, people have been trying to do this stuff for 20-30 years.
They've also made efficient solar cells, very good (comparable to Si) field-effect transistors. They've achieved more in this field (organic conductors) in the last year or so than all other researchers in the field have done in the last five (and there's been a lot of very good work in the last few years).
So this steel wire I'm holding is plastic? I can bend it, and it stays bent. Smells like plastic deformation to me.
Or perhaps you don't realize that most people use the term "plastic" to mean "polymer".
BTW, do linguistic semantics give you a woody? I'm just wondering.
-Ryan
And when again did researchers at Bell Labs achieve Cold Fusion? Oh, I see, you're just confusing reality with too many pulp Sci Fi novels.
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
No, no, no. If you read the article, you'd realize they've created a plastic train conductor. It's all part of ATT's plan to duplicate the fanciful world of the Beatles "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds".
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It is superconductor, not semiconductor. Plastic semiconductors are already here
It may be that plastic is easier to make than some ceramic materials, but plastic is made from fossil fuels, which are a limited resource. Ceramics on the other hand, are made up of materials which make up 20% of the earth's crust...
"Just in time for X-mas, My First semiconductor play set, only from Fisher Pri.....
________
Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
Bell Labs got divested to Lucent when AT&T spun them off. So unless there is some portion of Bell Labs I don't know about (conceivable) Lucent would be the company responsible here.
As well, there are smaller companies such as Cambridge Display Technologies (who just got a large, but undisclosed, investment last year) in the UK, and Universal Display Corporation in Princeton, NJ that are doing some very good work as well.
I didn't mention these things in my original post as it seemed too much like namedropping. But remember, you asked.
"Twenty-five signatures turns the most frightful stupidity into an opinion" -Kirkegaard
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
As it stands, lead is almost certainly a better choice of superconductor, since both require liquid helium coolant and the plastic is probably more expensive. The point, however is that this opens the door to a new kind of superconductor. the first metallic superconductor was mercury at roughly 1K, we eventually got up to wierd (and expansive) alloys that superconduct at about 30K (liquid hydrogen coolant could be used).
The first ceramic superconductors worked only at 30 or 40 K, but we quickly got up to over 100K. Unfortunately, they're murder to form into wires, or anything else useful.
Now this group has opened the door, we can expect many more superconducting polymers. The ideal result would be one that is easy to make and form, and can carry high currents or operate in high magnetic fields and liquid nitrogen temperatures.
Even if that is not achieved this new class of superconductors might have interesting or useful properties.
At 4 degrees above absolute zero, and the "higher" temp metals having a head-start in refinement/research etc, what do you see as compelling reasons to use plastic? Cost of material? flexibility? The temp difference is fairly significant and I'm just not seeing the point other the geek-factor.
I mean, given the way superconducting works, at some point you can make almost any material capable of passing electrical energy...
I must be having a stupid day.
Do not taunt Happy-Fun Ball
Think about this way. In few trillion years 4 degrees above absolute zero will be well above room temperature and all our dreams will be answered. :)
Is this the end yet?...How 'bout now...how 'bout now...how 'bout now?
Lego set #10892
Maglev train set, 6 figures, 12 feet of superconducting tracks. $4,999.99. Some assembly required.
(I'll take two, please.)
Bell Labs went with Lucent Technologies when it spun off from AT&T in 1996.
Personally, I think I'll live to see Moore's Law get sent to /dev/null with things like "Man will not fly" and "Man will never walk on the moon"*.
With the extensive probing into quantum machinery**, the question is, "How soon will it be that processors create their own dimension to perform advanced mathematical calculations. The question is, "When will be using planck's width to record data rather than Fe-Si combinates?" The question is, "Will the term 'wireless' come to mean that a small quantum bridge is created by the computer to read the data on another computer atoms?"
Or, one of my friend's favourite questions: Will a molecule count as a network?
You can keep your one atom transistors, I'm waiting for the chance to upgrade to a 2 1 H isotope!***
*No replies on the one-sided Fox special, please
**This has actually been around for a few years already, and has been mentioned on slashdot a few times, as well as making it to Michael Crichton's "Timeline", as a background to the ideas conveyed in the story.
***Don't tell me not to hold my breath, that, too, is another AnonCow-esk comment
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
Editor, please fix the title on this article.
At the moment, it "Bell Labs Creates Plastic
Semiconductor". However, both the Slashdot
article and (more significantly) the NYTimes
article refer to plastic superconductors.
It should be something along the lines of:
"Bell Labs Creates Plastic Superconductor"
http://channel.nytimes.com/2001/03/08/science/08SU PE.html
now of course, Lucent has a website, with the press release here. The page with photos of the team can be found here on the bell labs site.
As Usual, the story was first reported in NATURE (NOTE - free registration gives some access, paid registration gives more)
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
The capabilities of conjugated polymers are expanding at a great rate, perhaps because of the backing that R&D is now getting from some VERY large companies. This is especially true since the founders of the field received the recent Nobel Prize in Chemistry (I'll admit to being biased as one of them is my boss).
The promise of these materials is more that of lighter and cheaper than anything else at this point. That may change in the near future though. It's not that they are better materials that those that are in use now, but rather the fact that they are perhaps a bit easier and cheaper to process, relatively inexpensive to make, and perhaps more suited to particular applications. For example, there are groups working on making emissive displays out of semiconducting polymers. If you can make them on a plastic substrate rather than glass, you have a display that you don't have to worry about breaking when you drop your laptop/handheld/cellphone. Now, if we can make one that is easier to see in the sunlight and gives you longer battery life, those are pluses as well.
As far as the superconductors go, we were sure it would happen someday as one of the primary excitations of these materials is what is called a bipolaron. It's basically a Cooper Pair in a conjugated polymer (Cooper Pairs being that thing that makes ceramic superconductors do their thing). The primary problem was getting the polymers to order, or line up, properly. So now it's been done. Yes, it's at a very cold temperature, but all of the first traditional superconductors were down there pretty far too.
By the way, remember that guy who figured out how to make the laser? He didn't know what to do with it at first either. It didn't take too long before it gave people ideas...
"Twenty-five signatures turns the most frightful stupidity into an opinion" -Kirkegaard