Slashdot Mirror
Palm Teases With Slim, Pretty New Models
stylewagon writes: "Yup, the 2 new Palm models were released today -- right on time. Palm's website has just been updated with all the info about them -- the new mono m500 and the colour m505. Both feature the new Palm Os4.0, expansion slots and (finally!) have a USB cradle (a la Handspring)" Well, they haven't actually been released -- the CNET article uses that old standby "unveiled" instead, but Palm says they'll be out mid- to late spring, in all their Secure Digital Expansion New Perfect World glory.
wheres my YOPY? :( They look so cute and promising... and altho the web site (yopy.com) has lots of graphics, i see nothing on actually BUYING it :((the site also seems incomplete/unfinished)
And you can run Linux/ARM on it, with XFree86. That plus a 1GB IBM Microdrive is a good thing.
Yeah, unless you need a PDA today. They're incredibly useful regardless of whether they have an upgrade path. I would still be happy with my two year old Palm III if it hadn't gotten busted.
--Matthew
I have a Palm Vx, and I can happily run it 1-2 weeks on a charge (varies depending on usage pattern). You don't _have_ to charge it every day, but it's easy to do, since the HotSync cradle charges the battery as well.
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
505 HTTP Version Not Supported
The server does not support, or refuses to support, the HTTP protocol version that was used in the request message. The server is indicating that it is unable or unwilling to complete the request using the same major version as the client, as described in section 3.1, other than with this error message. The response SHOULD contain an entity describing why that version is not supported and what other protocols are supported by that server.
The peripherals you list connect to the "new Universal Connector" (aka the hot sync port at the bottom), NOT to the card slot.
--
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Actually, there needs to be a "Read the fucking article" catergory.
The article covered his concerns quite well.
From the article:
Both units use the same 160 pixel-by-pixel screen that has been on earlier models rather than the more dense screen that will be part of Sony's new Clie. The Sony unit, which will be launched first in Japan, has a 320-pixel by 320-pixel color screen and is also the first Palm-based handheld that can play digital audio files.
> I have a palm V which I've had for maybe 18 months, as you say using and charging it every day.
I don't want to have to charge it every day.
How long will a full charge last you? A couple of days of use? If it reliably lasts a week of heavy use, then maybe it would be servicable for what I want. Still, I like the ability to roam with my palm, and not have to worry about where to plug it in at night. That is why I chose my IIIe over the V. AAA's last months, and can be purchased cheaply anywhere I'm likely to go. And for the case where I can't buy AAA's (say...camping), I can pack an extra pair in less room than a charger would take, and again I won't need a plug.
To me, the only downside of using AAA's is that it makes for a thicker Palm. I wish someone would up and define a new thin, flat battery standard so that I could still use alkaline's in something thinner than a AAA.
As for the new palms...I'm glad they are moving to USB, but I'm a bit suspicious of this new port. I would appreciate being able to view big ebooks on my palm, but I resist the move towards copy control. We'll see how open it turns out. They way things are going, I'm not terribly optimistic.
--Lenny
What's wrong with the Visor Edge? It is extreamly similar to the Palm V in size and weight (it does need the strap on expand-o-slot if you want to use a springbord though).
There's nothing about PalmOS v4.0 that inherently implies 160x160 only. A 320x320 device would work just fine with OS 4. The thing about screen doubling is that it's necessary to make sure old apps run correctly. New apps could be written to take explicit advantage of a bigger display.
Also, apps do not run off of SD unfortunately. They are copied to main memory, run, and then put back.
Of course they won't. This isn't new. Try running apps written for the III or V on older models.
The security changes are twofold.
1) They modified the debugging engine to respect the lock settings, so you can't get into debug mode from the password prompt when the device is locked, and debugging by soft resetting while holding down doesn't work in a lock mode either. If your device is locked, the only way to unlock is to enter the password or do a hard reset.
2) You can now enter your password on the screen where you want to see your private data to unlock for that programs duration.
There is no on-device encryption. Privacy is still done using a flag on the record.
Furthermore 2.5 stands to steal much of 3's thunder at a lower cost & with less disruption. Thus it's entirely poosible that 3G will be still-born. Indeed with a number of new LEO space-based technologies being developed it's entirely possble 3G may be completely leapfrogged.
Thus your question may be entirely moot. In any case it's at least less timely then would have been a few months ago when 3G was assumed to be the 'next big thing'.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The question will be, I suspect, how well Palm OS variants react to the competition that's going to arise from EPOC 6.0 and what the take-up will be of the OS in the new 3G devices. The mobile providers have invested so much in buying the new licenses that they have to make the applications work, so if Palm lags behind the EPOC folks, then it's the EPOC apps which are going to get the development money.
If they aren't providing an upgrade from 3.x devices, then I would hope that OS 4.0 apps are binary compatible with the old 3.x OS.
In general, applications developed against the 4.0 SDK can work on older Palm's - even palms as old as 2.0 - provided that the programmer does not use API calls that only exist in PalmOS 4.0.
Apps that I have developed run on any OS from 2.0 up. If I want to take advantage of newer API features, I use run-time OS version checks before using that feature, and either work around the missing feature in the older OS, or don't provide the functionality that requires the newer API.
This requires some discipline on the part of the programmer, and you will see applications that won't run on older versions of PalmOS, if those applications use 4.0 API calls. Of all of the OSes that I have programmed against, PalmOS actually seems to provide the best compatibility for newer software running on older devices.
So is there any way (expansion or otherwise) to get palms to play decent quality audio?
Believe with me, my saplings.
I thought about getting an OmniSky modem for my Vx. Then I thought, Maybe I can plug my Vx into my cell phone? And you know what? I can. For the price of a $60 cable, I can surf the web (via AvantGo, anyway) and send & recieve e-mail. And with SprintPCS, you pay $10 extra per month and get to use your "plan minutes" for data connections (which normally cost extra -- why? because they can :))
And even if I exceed my plan minutes, I expect I'd have to exceed 'em by a whole lot, every month, to make the $200 + $40/month attractive compared to $60 + $10/month.
Just my $0.02.
My
I've used a hard case (also available at Best Buy) as long as I've owned my Vx (since Jan 2000), and it's never turned on in my pocket.
My only gripe about the hard case is I have to take my Vx out of the case to use my nifty-neat new portable keyboard. I'm seriously considering cutting the bottom half off the back panel. I've also suggested to Palm that they market one "pre cut". We'll see.
My
Go to palmgear.com and search for web browser and you'll find one or two.
My
Yeah, copy control sucks, but it's a fact of life that companies developing media these days are gonna do it
TRG (now HandEra) has been offering a Palm device (TRG Pro) for over a year now that has a compact flash slot, 8MB of ram, and 2mb of flash ram. It is the same form factor as the Palm III, which while not as slim as the PalmV series is still very portable. TRG also typically has OS updates available and ready to be flashed even before palm.
TRG has also been leading the pack in terms of software that does the necessary swapping behind the scenes to make the compact flash expansion appear to be transparently available to palm applications.
Bill (happy owner)...
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
> The Palm expansion slot supports MMC and SD which includes SDIO cards. There isn't anything
> available yet, but is capable of everything the springboard slot is in a much smaller package.
Yeah, nice in theory. In practice, we don't even have 802.11b CF cards yet, which are much bulkier, let along SD form factor ones. No need to hold your breath there.
I disagree... when I bought my Psion 5, I tried out a series 3 at the same time. The keys on the series 3 keyboard were far too small, and it didn't feel like a proper keyboard.
.. not quite as fast as on an ordinary keyboard, but still fast enough. I couldn't do this on the series 3 or the siena that I tried.
On my series 5, I can touchtype
I haven't had the chance to play with a revo, but the whole device looks far too small to be much good for quick typing.
</$0.02>
I cannot see the worth of an IBM microdrive in a Palm - no Palm generates the amount of data that would require one of these, to be honest.
Wasn't there some guy named Gates who said something similar about RAM? 640 something ...
Steve M
Odds are, they're will be a connector which will convert a m500 connector into one compatable with your line of Palms, a company, not sure what they're called made such a connector for the m100.
---
--
Insert Witty Sig Here
I've been happy with StayOffHack, from http://www.rgps.com/. I've used it on both my Palm III and my Symbol SPT-1740. I ass/u/me it works okay on the Vx as well.
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Palm's website doesn't tell me the most important thing -- Have they improved the screen resolution yet? Since there's no mention of it I assume not. If they've gone to a double-res screen (360x360, like the Sony Clie) as well as color I'll almost certainly buy it! If not, well... It looks nice, by my old Palm III continues to serve me well enough.
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
That's not really true, the visor prism hasn't been out for two years, so you can't cut them up too much for only having 256 colour until now, they did get the 256 colour before Hanspring had any colour.
I do like the prices of those palm memory modules. (49.99 for 16 Megs!)
Get a hard case that doesn't touch the button.
so do I, its great, except that the tab key doesn't work (any ideas on that) and i'm afraid it's a tad fragile maybe.
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
thanks... I feel dumb now, but at least, in my defense, I got it without a manual (display item)
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
And when I bought it they said I'd get upgrades. I also have 8 megs on my palm, so they really should make it available!
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
Other people sort of posted replies about this, but no-one was explicit enough it seems - As far as I can tell SD is a totally different standard from SDMI. SD is just for cards with a certain amount of storage, rather like a compact-flash card. Now they might include an MP3 playing add-on that would support SDMI, but there's also no reason someone couldn't make a card to hold and play .ogg files as well.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Argh. I shoulda hit the preview button. Please mod this down. And if someone can help me get past the lameness filters I'll try to post it as plain text. Every time I try it rejects it because of "junk characters" or something.
I have 2 problems with it...
1. It looks to use a completely new connector on the edge, so I'd have to give up the 2 cradles, the travel kit, the folding keyboard (how cool) and the wireless modem.
2. I notice that the little cardslot in the top of the thing is a. Proprietary in the extreme, and b. Supports SDMI, to which I object because it works with the basic assumption that everyone using digital technology to store music, ebooks, etc. are thieves and are not to be trusted.
This is (in a way) Palm's answer to Sony w/ MemoryStick. But why should I (we) support yet another proprietary, crippled, (no doubt) tightly controlled, and more expensive memory technology?
Where the value of X-Mailer: is the true measure of a man...
The one thing that really bothers me about my Visor is that most of the expansion modules are ridiculously expensive. The Palm expansion modules look pretty cheap in comparison:
16 MB memory card - $50 for the Palm, $139 for the Visor
Dictionary - $40 for the Palm (including Thesaurus), $50 for the Visor
Some of the modules for the Visor were even more ridiculous. $259 for an MP3 player? Come on.
Am I the only one that thinks that Palm Pilot sound like a rude epithet?
There was a quick update they did when the IIIc came out that included some new functionality. Neat of them, but unlike any previous update, they decided that if you needed the 'features' you had to pay $20 for the new version.
Not exactly giving me an upgrade (or a reason to stick with Palm instead of going to a Jornada/iPaq running Linux... both of which I expect in the near future).
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
If you want a Palm PDA that can read mem-cards now, check out the one from TRG-Pro (basically a PalmIIx with a CF slot).
Personally, I'm going to probably wait until my Palm IIIx bites the dust and then move to an iPaq or Jornada running Linux (they are way sweet) so I can understand your feelings. I keep trying to justify it to myself now, but until they stabalize more (heck, my desktop can last 2-3 years without feeling outdated, and I still use my model from 5 years ago without too much problems) I don't see anything wrong with what works.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
What do you mean? Psion S5 and S5mx have been the only PDAs so far with a real working keyboard.
--
Midgard Project - Open Source CMS
Read the manual. To insert a tab, try the Fn + Tab combination. I whipped out the manual to figure that out :)
Yes, there's a color version of Sim City. Check it out here.
---- "It is never too late to give up our prejudices." --Henry David Thoreau(1817-1862)
The M500 compare more with the Visor Platinum or the upcoming Edge than the Deluxe. Yes, the M505 does basically everything the Prism does, but has a faster processor and is in a much smaller package.
The thing about the Edge is you need to add the sleeve for Springboard support, which makes the device quite bulky.
The Palm expansion slot supports MMC and SD which includes SDIO cards. There isn't anything available yet, but is capable of everything the springboard slot is in a much smaller package.
No, it's not the smaller M100 screen.
Plus a faster processor, expansion slot, and color screen all at the same cost.
I think that PalmOS 4 uses more than 2 MB of flash memory on the device, so the device has to include over 2MB of flash - say 4 MB, in order to use POS4. As all previous Palms only had 2MB flash for the OS, they are unable to take advantage of Palm OS4. I am sure that Palm will release a Palm OS 3.6 with necessary upgrades however.
Also, the Palm is not a computer. It is a PDA. If I bought a filofax(tm), then why would I expect to get extra filofax(tm) components for free? You pay for them. You bought a Palm that did X, you didn't buy a Palm that you thought might do Y in the future - that is a stupid policy!
As the linked website says - "Palm OS 4.0 is backwards compatible. Most of your applications will work as always. ".
:-)
Read links before blurting all over Slashdot
And for the guy with the Palm turning on problem in his pocket (ooh er missus!) the new Palm has mroe security features that might help this. Slightly.
So how do you feel about the new Clie and the new m500 and m505?
The new Palms have a 'standard' SD/MMC slot for which a tonne of devices will be made by a multitude of companies.
The Palm m50X has an improved calendar, and includes software to let you work on Excel worksheets, an image viewer and more security features. They also have a proper USB cradle at last.
Does anyone know the horsepower of the new Palms? Why can't Motorola just go and make a 66MHz DragonBall at 0.25u or something? That would make the Palm range even better.
Well for a standard well supported small form factor expansion system, it is a lot better than MemoryStick.
Face it, new forms of media that do not have the ability to protect content are not going to ever get popular these days. The capabilities of SD/MMC are vast, and if you don't want to use it, then don't use it! The format will succeed anyway, with or without your support. And the cards look cute.
2. USB connectivity is proprietary
Palm deserve a slap for that one. It will get reverse engineered at some point I am sure - why don't they just release the information to get greater support for the device?
1) Smartmedia cards are _slow_, and 3x as big as the SD-Card in the new Palm, although a little thinner. It is coming to the end of its lifespan now. Also only usable as a memory expansion.
2) CompactFlash cards are faster than Smartmedia, but the same size, and a lot fatter. That would affect the Palm m50x a lot, as these are meant to be slim devices.
3) You might as well use the same media between all of your devices, and use one that is well supported and that most users will buy anyway.
4) MemoryStick is a Sony proprietary technology. SD isn't.
5) There is no comparable libre technology, at least none that don't have some disadvantage or another.
6) Logical Conclusion: SD
SD provides a flexible expansion option. It isn't just storage, it can do digital cameras, modems, fingerprint scanners, games on ROM, wireless, etc. Pretty much like memorystick.
I cannot see the worth of an IBM microdrive in a Palm - no Palm generates the amount of data that would require one of these, to be honest. Store 1billion appointments. Great. In a Psion or a WinCE device, yes - but these are more like mini-laptops that PDAs.
It just can't compete with the existing Palm software library - thousands of applications to do practically anything you want.
Shame really - this looks like a reasonable machine. The processor is a little weak (66MHz MIPs is marginally better than a 33MHz Dragonball), the screen is 160x240, when 240x320 would be better, and the interface is clunky to say the least.
I hope it doesn't use some cut down version of X for its display either. That would blow seriously. A native display would be fine though.
Anyway, the current Palms are the last of the (very) old generation. The new generation (ARM CPU, etc) will be coming out next year. These will most likely have better screens in a format that users have demanded - probably 240x240, 240x320, 320x320 or 320x480 even. It will still be the old greyscale and colour screens though. From the low end m120 and m125, the m320 and m325,the m520 and m525, the m720 and m725 etc, will be the ARM based PalmOS 5 devices. These wil not cost more than the current Palms, due to cost reductions in having the new hardware instead of the legacy hardware. The top models will be able to emulate Dragonball Palms in near real time.
m110, m115, m510, m515 etc will be speed bumps and OS upgrades for the existing Palm line in around 6 months time, when Motorola get a faster Dragonball out (40MHz and 50MHz versions). These will sport 160x160 screens, or 320x320 doubled screens like the Sony Clie.
ALl the above is a pile of bollocks from the depths of my mind, but hey, it can't be that far wrong... Palm only uses a 160x160 screen now because that was practically the best you could have in 1995 when the first Palm devices came out.
All of the Palm devices are way overpriced for their hardware - however software is the key, and is what differentiates the Palm from the WinCEs and others.
However, new hardware from other companies is appearing. The Franklin eBookman looks pretty good for a PDA sizes device, and there is a larger device called the myebook.
eBookman: 240x200 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, 32-bit, custom OS, free development kit runs under Linux, USB connector to PC, MMC slot, slim, etc etc.
myebook: 480x400 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, etc.
All that is required is for a critical movement to get behind one of these devices, which both make the Palm look stupid. The eBookman looks like a sure fire hit. Twice as much screen estate as the Palm, about the same size, slim, good feature set, and DAMN CHEAP. Yes, $129 to $229.
They just don't have the same following as the Palm, however it is new, and things will change for the better. With 8 or 16MB of RAM, lots of flash for the OS, an OS with real OS features (separate 1GB address spaces for apps, etc), this should appeal to the geek in every one of you.
Arrgh, none of the new models have user-replaceable batteries.. I have a Palm Pro which is on it's last legs, and I'm really apprehensive about getting a new unit that doesn't take external batteries. Maybe I'll get a IIIxe while they're on sale (really cheap now). See, I bought my Pro in 1995, and I've used it daily since then. (It's a USRobotics one, too :). I can't count the batteries I've gone through. Palm recently discontinuted almost ALL of the accessories for the pro, and you can't get the upgrade cards anymore. What would happen if it had an internal battery? I can tell you what would happen, I'd be paying $100 for a device that's not worth giving a way, and I'd be forced to buy a new one.
Does anyone know if you can buy the internal batteries seperately for a stockpile? Yes, I know they're not user-replaceable, but neither are the capacitors in a TV - doesn't mean you can't do it :). Or have any third-party manufacturers taken up the case yet for the Palm V/Vx owners - I quick search of deja/googlenews indicates that there are a LOT of people waiting a long time to get batteries replaced, something inacceptable IMHO.
Other than that.. *drool*.
..don't panic
As always, Palm is playing on their strong points.The need to have a 200MHz cpu or 32 MB ram is less urgent.
N ewsDetail.asp"> ARM core </a> into their handheld cpus, so they can move past the 33MHz Dragonball, but that is evidently for the future. There is no mention of the CPU used in the M505.
I read that Palm is working with Motorola to get them to incorporate an <a href="http://www.electronicnews.com/news/5708-346
They mention a "long life" battery, but not how long the life is. That's an important convenience point. They do have it charge in the cradle, which helps a lot.
64K colors, good. MGI photosuite? Interesting. does this mean you can retouch photos on the go?
All in all, a great product, and the price is not too bad, although I'll have to stick with my IIIe for a while longer.
First off, the m505 looks quite nice, color display, and all, but there are a couple of reasons I just got a Visor Plantium rather than a Palm.
:). Its got 8MB of memory and all that. Overall a very nice PDA that I would buy in a second.
First let me say that I had a Palm IIIx (I broke the display badly on) and I liked it. PalmOS is, IMHO, much better than WinCE/PocketPC/whatever it will be tomorrow. I needed a replacement for my Palm, and started looking around.
I want a Personal Digital Assistant, not a handheld desktop as many CE devices try to be. The only CE device that really stands out is the iPaq.
I looked hard at the Palm Vx. Its sleek, looks good, and all that asthetic nonesense
I also looked at the Sony CLIE. Its a very nice little device also, but compared to Palm and Handspring's offerings, its a little too expensive for what it offers.
The Visor has the lure of the Springboard. A lot of people will argue that (1) Springboard modules are too expensive, (2) There aren't enough out there to justify the Visor over anything else, and (3) The OS isn't upgradable. The Platinum is about the size of the Palm III, is comparable to the Vx only with a little more horsepower (33Mhz Dragonball). The Visor Prism would be nice, but I just don't have a need for color right now.
The Platinum being almost identical to the Palm III* and Vx (physical dimensions aside, Im not picky there), there are only a few things that do stand out: (1) Springboard: I like the idea and I like a couple of the modules, (2) Datebook+: Anyone whos used it or seen it used would agree, it is a bit nicer than Datebook, (3) USB Cradle: Anyone whos had a Palm knows how slow serial is, (4) Faster Processor: It may not sound much to have a faster processor in a PDA, but it really makes a world of difference.
I chose a Visor Platinum because it seems to offer a bit more for me than the Palm III* and V*, even though the V* does have a better asthetic feel. I don't really mind not being able to upgrade the OS, especially since 4.0 doesn't seem to offer much more to me.
No flame war intended, just my US$0.02 on why I got a Plantium.
If they aren't providing an upgrade from 3.x devices, then I would hope that OS 4.0 apps are binary compatible with the old 3.x OS. If they arent... I'd seriously reconsider any future PalmOS based products.
treke
That's a good thing to know.
treke
I did read the link. The "Most of your applications will work as always." seems to imply that 4.0 will run 3.x and 2.x apps, not the other way around.
treke
You can sign an NDA and get the OS source, but if all you want is the datebook, Palm makes that source freely available as part of the SDK samples. If you download the Prc-Tools and get the SDK you'll get the source for datebook.
I'd be very happy if you could tell me where you got the OS4 ?
"We'll reach that bridge when we find it" - Suzy Romer, prime minister Netherlands Antilles '98-'99
If you are interested in the m500, you really
should take a look at the Franklin Ebookman at
www.franklin.com
a) its available today,
b) more memory
c) EB-911 is $170 cheaper
d) bigger screen
e) open platform
Disclaimer - I'm working on a few apps for the
ebookman, but then so can anybody, check their site.
Awesome! Tell me tell me tell me....you say there are several but you didn't say which ones....I want! OmniSky native browser (web clipping) sucks balls.....
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
I have to say, the heating up of the PDA wars is definitely getting interesting (Palm vs. Handspring vs. iPAQ), but I have to say the most intriguing part of this whole battle, to me, is the emergence (and advances) of wireless Interet access.
I currently have a Handspring Visor w/ OmniSky and am, for the most part, loving it. I think getting email and news while beyond the reach of my notebook/desktop is extremely cool.
BUT -- I saw the top-o-the-line iPAQ the other day w/ the wireless modem add-on, and, frankly, I'm impressed. First off, it's color & sleek (m505/Visor Prism matches it there), it's got a PCMCIA (or whatever they call it these days) expansion module, which means the wireless modem can also work on my laptop, and thirdly (and this is the most impressive part to me), it's got a FULL web browser built-in.
I've always been as anti-WinCE/Pocket-PC as one can get, but the fact that I browse full color, full-graphics, and full-text web pages (well, for the most part) on a palm-sized device is totally cool. I know this technology will improve, but PocketPC's definitley got the lead right now.
My question is how are these new Palms going to handle the whole net access question? I have high hopes -- there seems to be mention of the "Wireless Access Software", but that doesn't seem to be more than the 'ol IR-to-cellphone gig.
I'm waiting to see what kind of wireless modems are available for these devices, and what kind of web browsers will go along with them. If the modems are like the current Minstrels (i.e. tiny expansion slot but a modem that >doubles the overall size of the unit -- LAME), I'm going to have to keep waiting....:(
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
Before you buy one, take a look at one that's been left out in one of the stores - All the ones that I've seen are blown apart, have broken keys, snapped hinges.
If you think you might EVER drop your keyboard/bookbag, you might want to look at the GoType keyboards, which are larger, but MUCH sturdier.
I /strongly/ suggest that anybody who's thinking of buying one of these get on the Yahoo! Groups topics about them, esp. the development one. There are a LOT of 'Gotchas' about it.
Yeah, it's cheap, and it's nice-looking hardware, but know what you're getting into. I'm personally going to wait a few months to see if the bugs cook out.
Thank you, I meant to add that but my lunch break was running out. :P
On a side note, I'd really like to see more people supporting TRG if for no other reason than so that they can continue a line of handhelds that don't suffer from braindead marketing... like a few others out there do.
Umm... well, so far I don't see anything innovative about either of these. The only new features seem to be:
1. PalmOS 4.0 - Okay, I wouldn't mind playing with it maybe, but it looks to perform exactly the same as 3.x.x.
2. MultiMediaCard Expansion Card Slot - Yay, just what we need, more proprietary expansion ports! Palm made a mistake by not supporting an expansion slot in their ealier models but do they really have to screw consumers like this?
The one true PalmOS device, in my opinion, is the TRGpro. I own one and I have to say that for the price, it beats the pants off any monochome Palm or Visor to date. It's basically a PalmIIIx, except it's got an industry standard Compact Flash slot. You can plug in modems, serial cards, barcodes, anything! It uses the same memory cards (up to 1GB with the IBM Microdrive) as a lot of digital cameras.
I remember when Palm used to innovate.
The M505 is impressive. It's got *most* of the things Palm users have been asking for: color in a PalmV formfactor (YES!!! And with side-reflective TFT... YES!!!), backlit graffiti area, vibrating alarm, and expansion slot.
The lack of MP3 playback is disappointing, but not a big deal right now, IMHO. When dataplay disks come out next year, then MP3 playback on a handheld computer will be more important. Right now it's mostly a gimmick.
However, the lack of improved audio or a higher resolution screen is going to be a real turn-off to some people (including me). Don't get me wrong... It doesn't make me want to switch to WinCE (unless they rewrite that buggy, inefficient OS from the ground-up). But I dunno if I'm gonna shell out for an M505, even though it's a very reasonable price.
I'll probably hold out for a device with a higher resolution screen. The question is, what will come first?
1. A version of WinCE that doesn't suck (doubtful, knowing M$)
2. PalmOS 5 devices with higher resolution, improved audio, and MP3 playback
3. Color EPOC Palm devices with multimedia capabilities
or
4. The new Sharp Linux devices, which will reportedly be focused on Java for development.
Looks like the next 12 months will be very interesting... shall we start a pool?
I'll keep this V for as long as it lasts, but Hell will freeze over before I buy another Palm. My next PDA will be one of the Linux devices on the market.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
they included a jog dial on this nice thin form factor. I have a PalmPilot Personnal and would really like to upgrade. I am almost willing to get a Clie. The design is really cool, I think, but I want the thinness of the Palm m505, and I am alittle put off by the memory stick.
Why doesn't Palm or Handspring put in a jog dial?!?!? It makes the device so much more useful in my opinion.
"You like Chinese food." -Fortune Cookie
A lot of nice models of PalmOS running hardware about now; you can get cheap ones, ones with springboards, color ones, thin ones.
Of course as a Psion 5 user what I really want is a m505 sized box runnning Quartz with a built-in GSM phone.... or GPRS maybe.
Technology is cool isn't it.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
It's gawd-awful slow... Did /. manage to /. it?
Edith Keeler Must Die
Does anyone know whether the screens on the new m500 and m505 are the original, III/V-sized ones, or the smaller m100 type?
I certainly hope it's the former; I'm farsighted, and don't think I can handle a screen any smaller than it already is on my IIIx. :-)
I *just* bought a Vx last week, and even with these new ones, I'm not sorry I did. Couple reasons. 1. that SDMI slot looks evil. 2. USB connectivity is proprietary.
That is, Palm (unlike Handspring) won't release the specs on the USB protocol they are using in their USB cradles. This was an issue with the later models of the Vx, as they also have USB cradles.
In a nutshell: Currently, there is no way to connect a Palm-brand PalmOS device with a USB connector with Linux. Sucks.
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
How are MultiMedia Cards different from CompactFlash or PCMCIA cards?
Size, size, and size. MMCs are about the size of a postage stamp, and about as thick as a quarter. They rock.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Whining won't help. :-)
But must one realize, thats how they make their money! They make profit on the units, but not nearly as much as selling an aluminum case for 40$! A serial cable for 30$! A stylus for 20$.
Lastly, I don't care if it weighs 10 pounds, it has to be thinnnnnnn. Thin means it fits in a wallet case, thin means its not a burden to carry.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
2) Cardslot is SD (secure digital) and a bunch o' companies (Panasonic for one) use it. It can also read MMC (multimedia card), which you see around quite a bit too. The advantage over CompactFlash is that it draws less juice. Which is a good thing. Also they have a whole bunch of people who will probably quickly make their own versions of it. It shouldn't be too hard for Handspring Springboard vendors to rejigger their devices to work on the Palm hardware. Bigger install base. Unlike Sony, which has almost no developers of Memory STick add-ons, this might work. Sony is overpriced and hasn't sold well.
What I don't like about this is price ($450 for the color, only $50 than the new monochrome, like anyone wouldn't pay the difference) point .... I bought a IIIxe b/c it was 8mb (which the new ones continue to be) and $200.
I'd rather pay $200 every year than $400 every two. You get the good stuff quicker. Here's an article too.
What's interesting is how Handspring will respond -- new read/write Springboards? And soon supposedly Sony has a 320x320 Palm OS color Clie coming out.
Your right, the Palm Vx I own looks cool. I use it as my wallet, with one of those leather carrier things.
What I love about the Vx is the size and that I only have to charge it once in a while, like every two weeks or so.
I bought it for USING it not playing games.
--
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Damn, Palm just cant compete. The Visor Edge look better, will most likly be cheaper, and has a larger expansion slot, eg cell phone or Camera, looks palm only wants to accept mmc's so thats ram or rom, but no new functionality. I hope they make there money in licensing the OS, or they are going under.
in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in.
You're referring to "Mask Records", as opposed to hiding or showing them. The newest version of TealLock (been out for at LEAST six months) fully supports that. My Vx locks and masks private records at 4AM daily.
--
Then again, if Palm doesn't consider it to be worthwhile to create security upgrade for old PalmOS versions, we can always use our money for one of those Linux or *BSD based PDAs, when its time to buy new PDA. With those, you have little bit more options regarding updates and such...
P.S. Yes, I am aware of GNU Keyring for PalmOS project, but it won't protect calendar and todo entries that I have in standard PalmOS applications.
When are they going to up the resolution beyond the current paltry 160x160? I'd prefer 8-bit color on a 240x320 screen. Hold a Casio PocketPC in your hand and you'll see what a high res color screen in your hand is like. There's no going back.
First it was just little things, like the cheap plastic stylus in the other stylus holder. The other things, like the price of replacement cables etc...
Now finaly, they release 2 more models. As far as i can see, the only benifits are more colour, An unpopular, propietory expantion card. And a new OS, which isn't that much of an improvment on the old one.
I did get excited about the new OS, but then again. that isn't avalible for my Vx Even though I bought it becasue They said they will make upgrades for it, and it does have flashable ROM. What a waste. They could atleast just give us something, like the new notpad app, but no...
And they still stick with 160x160, which is just silly. It's begining to be a joke. All wince PDA's have more that this. And increaing the resultion is going to have that much of a power drain, esspecialy on a B&W model.
And, still, they havn't made the graffiti area part of the screen.
Sure, there are comatability issues with the above. But it isn't that hard to make something backward compatible.
If Palm really want to impress me, they'll make something the same thinkness of the Vx, add a smart media, or compactflash (if there's room) slot. and change the res to 320x440, so the screen part is 320x320, and the extra bit is for graffiti area.
And they'll add an option to have differnt alarm setting for each appointment. (Thats the only thing that I miss about wince, I want my wake up call to be much different to a reminder to feed the cat etc...)
And yes, it is still possable to add features to the Palm OS and still keep it simple and easy to use.
I have a IIIx that is swell and all but I need this m505 to live.
---
This
My company ordered 6 of the Visor Edge PDAs the day they were announced, two in each color. I played with one of them when they arrived, and I personally don't like them.
As a point of reference, I've owned a Visor Deluxe since the first month they were available in stores, so I've got some experience with them. I previously owned an original USR Pilot 500, so this isn't my first Palm OS PDA.
The hinge for the flip cover is plastic and feels flimsy. The sides of the case are plastic (it's basically two *thin* sheets of aluminum bolted to a plastic frame, with a *very thin* aluminum cover attached by a plastic hinge. Other than being thinner, it's no improvement over the existing Visors.
If you plan to use a springboard module of any kind, I highly recommend investing in a standard or deluxe Visor instead of the Edge model. The Edge with the springboard attachment feels bulkier, and won't lay flat on a table. Also, you can't use the flip cover with the springboard module installed.
I thought the idea behind a metal case was to make the PDA sturdier, but based only on my hands-on time (I haven't dropped one or anything) they feel flimsy compared to a non-Edge Visor.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
See my previous post here
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
But I guess Palm users are still stuck with the happy-crappy CDPD technology.
Not busting on Palm or Palm users, but I like having mobile broadband in the palm of my hand. Until Palm offers some sort of high speed connectivity and a real web browser, it won't be for me.
I have tried and tried to justify an upgrade, but my Palm III is still truckin' along with no end in sight.
My wife got a III shortly after I did, a couple of years ago. We both became Palm junkies. Her III bit the dust and she's carrying a Visor now. My III is still fine. Maybe all my idle talk about upgrades scared it into behaving.
When the time comes to upgrade I will seriously look at the Microsquish powered PDAs though... It would be nice to have a full color PDA that can read the CF memory cards from my digital camera.
Wow, the eBookman DOES look nice. And cheap. But it syncs to Windows only, according to the spec sheet. And even worse, it looks like it syncs to Outlook. I can't stand Outlook OR Outlook Express, and I don't want to use them as my contact manager.
Currently I am a PalmOS user, and I like the way that Palm has a lightweight Windows client for searching/adding organizer events & contacts. On the Mac side it is even better, since they use a rebranded version of Claris Organizer. But Outlook... . Invasive bloatware. Ack. And even though I use Windows most of the time, I have Macs too and generally refuse to buy stuff like PDAs unless it works with both platforms.
http://www.targus.com/keywd_search.asp?keywd=stowa way+portable
Granted, it's for the iPaq/Visor/HP, not the palm. But it's still cool.
Can't I get a PocketPC for the just about the same price as m505? The HP Jornada is $499 at HP's web site.
Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead running a WinCE device, but won't most of the casual consumers out there will compare prices only?
Maybe, but that's just yet another thing to carry around. I want a PDA, with a keyboard, that goes in my pocket and I can whip out and use whenever.
The current crop of WinCE+keyboard PDAs seem to be more "mini-laptops", with a 4:3 screen, so it no longer goes in your pocket.
*MoreGrumbles*
Why doesn't anyone make a decent PDA with a keyboard anymore? It seems style has been firmly placed in front of function.
The last good PDA w/ keyboard was the Psion 3c, they lost the plot with the Psion 5/Revo, and all WinCE handhelds I've seen with keyboards have sucked.
*Grumble*
Still no word on screen resolution... I assume if they aren't touting 320x320, that means they are still at 160x160. Of course, that is all PalmOS 4.0 can handle is 160x160, anything higher (e.g. Sony Clie) uses some sort of pixel doubling or something.
I emailed OmniSky last week to ask if they have support for the Palm505 yet. They said that they were not ready to announce any new support yet. But made it sound like they would. The link above lists Minstrel modems (the ones OmniSky uses) available in April 2001. So I assume shortly after the m505 hits shelves OmniSky will have full support. That gives users a full TCP/IP stack (afaik), modem for $199 with rebate, unlimited service for $39.95/month.
The new vibrating/silent/audible alarms being built in is a nice touch.
And it appears that applications will be able to be run directly off the SD Cards. That's a good thing too.
Personally, I would like to order one, they sound great... but I'm just unsure of the life of this thing. If Palm is going to release a 320x320 device with a StrongARM processor next year, I may just wait. But for now, I'm planning on buying one when they hit store shelves.
-- null
Here is a link to the MultiMediaCard Association. How are MultiMedia Cards different from CompactFlash or PCMCIA cards? Why are they necessary?
Here is the devils Question: How is the MultiMediaCard a tool of the content providers to implant a technology to subvert fair-use rights and user freedom / How does the choice of MultiMediaCards & Secure Digital tie in?
Sorry if I dont feel warm and fuzzy about Palm's adoption of a standard that will ultimately be the means to extend RIAA/MPAA/"Content Owners" rights while displacing my own as a private citizen... (Assumption of guilt built into technology required by collusive monopolies)
And Further - why would i want to spend my money to buy this device if it entails adopting a technology that provides me zero benefit... and 'them' the real benefit (see afore mentioned 'Citizen-Fucking-Method(TM)')
- OR - Am I being overly pessimistic about what 'Secure Digital' Could possibly mean...
The Palm OS 4.0 page says that your Palm can now lock automatically when you turn it off. It just amazes me that it took them this long to implement just one of the many great features of TealLock. I've been using TealLock for the last two and a half years and it has had that feature the whole time. Additionally, it can simply hide your "hidden" files automatically when you turn off your Palm - do you really need to lock your Palm each time you turn it off?
Also, TealLock lets you simply use a shortcut to hide and show records while in any application (and the same applies to locking/unlocking), so you don't have to go into Palm Prefs, goto Security, choose "Show Records," and then return to the app you were in.
It seems to me that Palm still has a ways to go before they implement this. I had been hoping that they would put this in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in. Palm should license the TealLock software, as it is clearly superior to any security software they produce.
If you want MP3 support I guess you need to go to Handspring. Which is fine by me.
sulli
RTFJ.
What are you talking about? The most popular "new form of media" to appear recently, and become popular, has to be CD-R - which doesn't involve copy protection. On the contrary copy protection is a formula for failure - e.g. Memory Stick. (Do you know anyone who uses it? I don't!)
sulli
RTFJ.
Yup - 4 hours too late.
*** I am the real stylewagon
Wow.. Whats the year again? Oh yeah, 2001 - That's the future isn't it? And palm is still sticking with the blocky 160x160 screen?!? *wow*.. I mean, my Amiga 500 worked great at the time, but its time to move on
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Vices - what I lack in originality, I make up for in volume.
Check out Agenda Computing's new pda, the Agenda VR3.
It has a 66Mhz MIPS chip and it runs on Linux VR.
--
Look cool...
Like a Titanium Powerbook?
Sorry, that's beside the issue I wanted to reply to =)
As per horrid gaming boxes; they have a faster processor, more memory, and higher resolution than a comparable (though cheaper) Gameboy Color.
Those things have been successful for 11 years now, so I don't think it's fair to say that a Visor or Palm makes a 'horrid' game box.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Actually, in comparison, the Edge is 0.1oz lighter than the m500 or m505, 0.06in thinner, but 0.2in taller, with the same memory and screen size (lacking only color)
Sorry for the horridly constructed sentence structure. Edge doesn't get Palm OS 4.0, but compensates with a non-sdmi expansion slot and hitting the same price point.
Anyway, I think you're right, people will pay some more for style and flair. Look at the Titanium Powerbook!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
you'll go blind!
Right, now I've got that off my chest. Heres what I want to say.
The m505 is possibly the greatest move palm have done so far. The Vx was (and still is) one of the best organisors they've released. Yes its horribly expensive but it looks good, has good specs (for a palm) and is light.
Handsprings attempt is very nice and all that but you lose the good looks and the lightness. Now we have a colour pda thats only 0.9 oz heaver than the Vx. Bargain!
When I fist got my Vx I avoided the IIIc because it was bulkier and looked horrible. Now if I was thinking of buying again, then i'd go straight for the m505. No question. Yes the handspring is cheaper, but as Palm have found out, people are happy to pay more for something that looks good and is light.
--
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
the palm OS is so advanced, the other PDAs better run! actually, i once created a better and more robust environment on my trusty vic-20. the palm OS is crap. it takes computing back to the eighties.
gol
Is it possible to boot something other than the base Epoc OS?
$1300 for a series 7 and $800ish for a Netbook?! A decent celeron or k6-2 laptop would be cheaper, faster, and you can load a better OS on it in addition. Unless you're smuggling it around in your ass the Netbook or Series 7 has few advantages.
Anyway, the Visor Edge is already out, and I'm sure the price will drop from the $399 its at now giving these new Palms some serious competition.
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Finally, good password protection (the current Vx system where you unlock a file and it stays unlocked when you switch the thing off is a joke - that's not security) and a better alarm.....oh, what's this I see - you need to pay $450 to upgrade before you can get these. nice move palm. great customer service and support.
-Nano.
I just bought a palm a year ago, only to find that I had got not the latest model, i.e palm 5. And now here there are more models coming in. I think it would be best to wait another couple of years when we'll be more clear on 3G and other recent developments to settle down on a relatively stable model (something like Win '95 which performs well enough for the common man)
There's always sufficient, but not always at the right place nor for the right folks.
hmmm...i really dislike the compatibility issues with all these different devices. i really am not in the mood to go and buy all kinds of proprietary garbage for an already expensive device. i personally think the standard Palm PIM functions are good enough. what would be cool though is a regular PCMCIA slot that would support the wireless ethernet cards that many universities support (like CMU). i think wireless is the key to handheld devices. the Palm VIIx is too large and expensive. also the service plans need to go down. this will come with time i suppose. other than that, the new palms look pretty cool...but like most people say, not that great an improvement over the Palm V series. i will probably upgrade but most people should be perfectly fine with the Vx, which has gone down in price.
.....I would love to get one if I had $450 laying around to spent on a PDA.
I purchased my Psion series 7 netbook a little over 7 months ago and no matter whereever I use it, I get geeks and non-geeks alike asking me "Wow - what the hell is that?". It does everything I need from a PDA and it's got a decent sized screen. It supports 1 x PCMCIA and 1 x CF+ socket ( I have to admit that I'm really trying not to purchase anything that supports secure stuff - apart from the PS2 memory card where I had no option!). It reads MS attachments pretty well (you can read excel / word / ppt), and the battery life is ridiculous. It runs perl for that 'on the fly' coding (should you ever wish to), and runs at 190Mhz. It ROCKS man. open invite for the slating of psion please ....
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three
It's not so gimmicky if your PocketPC has a high-speed network connection.
How is the Ricochet? What's the reception like, and how long do your batteries last?
palm 505 is section of the bible isn't it?
--Joey
Not until they ditch the stupid keyboard. Handwriting is the only way to go on a handheld.
Yea its cool and all that they come out with these neat little gadgets, don't get me wrong i love them. But how often do we use it, its just something that people can say "yea i have the new palm". I have the VII And i havent touched it in months....
SmoKe WeeD and Kill Sand Niggers!!!!!!!!! Peace
But I guess Palm discovered that forever computing in a market in which a typical device now costs $50 isn't such a good revenue model. So, they switched gears and are trying to compete with the niches filled by Newton or WindowsCE. But their platform wasn't designed for that, and it shows. Palms have a low resolution screen, no MMU, slow processor, and an operating system that is not particular convenient for writing custom applications. What you are paying for mostly with the m500/m505 isn't the hardware at all anymore, it's the "platform".
If you want to support Palm until they finally come out with something more powerful, or if you have a lot of money around, go ahead, buy their high end models. If I need to replace my Palm, at this point, it will be with the lowest end model (low-end Visor: $129, low-end m100: $149). It has more than enough power to keep my schedule and phone numbers. If I want something to run custom apps on, I want it to be more easily programmable than either the Palm or a WinCE machine, and that means having either Java or POSIX APIs with a MMU.
What an innovative product! Finally, Palm offers everything that its nearest competitor, Handspring, does, a usb cradle, 16-bit color screen, and expansion. It only took two years, too! So, the m505 does everything the HS Visor Prism does and the m500 does everything the deluxe does. Now we'll see if Palm can offer as many different modules as Handspring, and match their prices.
Face it. An important 'feature' of a PDA, or any high tech device you carry around with you for that matter, needs to *look* cool. Now granted you have the advantages of being able to carry a V in your shirt pocket... but it's also a very sweet looking little machine.
One issue with the m505. I really don't understand color on the Palm platform. It just doesn't make sense. They're horrid gaming boxes, the resolution is extremely low, there's no multimedia applications, and software - not even Palm's - takes advantage of that pallet. These are the kind of things that encourage one to buy a WinCE device, not a Palm.
Why bother.
Can you direct me to a site with utilities for making it more difficult to turn on? I've been searching high and low for a hack that makes you use a combination of the buttons to power on the device since it constantly activiates itself in my pocket. This is very annoying and I figured other V users have experienecd this same misery, and I don't feel like wasting money on the hard case.
Why bother.
It's a good thing they didn't call it the "m404". Hell, I have difficulty finding my existing Palm from time to time. :-)
Why bother.
The Palm platform is largely unchanged - except for additional memory - since its early days. New 'official' improvements to the OS should be available to everyone, right? Grr... damn marketing drones.
Why bother.