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Crusoe To Power Microsoft-Based Tablet PC
buzzini writes: "Bloomberg is reporting that Microsoft's upcoming Tablet PC will be powered by the Crusoe chip. An announcement is expected tomorrow during a BillG speech at WinHEC." According to the article, "the development versions of the Tablet PCs will likely follow a hardware outline given at Comdex. Aside from the Transmeta chips, they will likely include 128MB of RAM, a 10GB hard drive, a docking cradle, a USB (universal serial bus) keyboard and mouse, along with built-in local-area networking based on the 802.11." Wireless webpads will rock -- hope they're here before 2000! OK, before the new millenium. Well, errr ...
Bill and Linus working on the same end-result project? Cats and dogs living together. "C'mon Martha, time to get to the bomb shelter."
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
unless they use this always-on LAN to invade privacy, report piracy, etc.
sulli
RTFJ.
Where are the flying pigs?
--
Je t'aime Stéphanie
The Tablet PC is NOT a Palm or WinCE device. Microsoft has demo'ed these units at several of its conferences, and they are a full-fledged PC running Windows 2000 or XP, with a touch-screen LCD. Basically, imagine breaking the screen off your notebook, turning it over to lay flat and upwards, making it touchscreen, and then as thin as a paper notebook and you'd have the Tablet PC. The large benefit Microsoft hopes to gain from this deal is in terms of power consumption and lowered heat output.
.NET strategy: Suppose you want to edit a document on your Tablet PC while you are in New York, but the document is still on your home PC? No problem... the Tablet PC can dial out through whatever Internet access you have, connect to your home PC, and download the document, all without any user intervention. The possibilities are endless, since it is a full PC after all. One might even be able to get Linux running on it, only sans the neato software.
The software for these devices is also very interesting. You can handwrite notes, and the software can spell-check, in handwriting! Also, you can doodle pictures, which are then automatically converted to images, which can them be resized and placed elsewhere. If you happen to be reading a book, you can drag the text down to create blank space in order to write your own personal notes. When you walk into your home (assuming you have wireless access on your PC as well), your documents and settings are syncronized with your desktop PC automatically; no having to put the Tablet in a cradle and manually run a program. It all just 'happens.' This is also part of the
-------
-- russ
"You want people to think logically? ACK! Turn in your UID, you traitor!"
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
i wonder what intel has to say about this..
Haven't the folks at microsoft learned anything from Gateway/3com/epods?? People aren't ready for or just plain don't want these connected 'net appliances yet. Just ask virgin, who had to fold their webplayer service, or 3com, who just dumped kerbango and audrey(audrey didn't even last 6 mo's). Or ask Gateway, whose Transmeta-powered AOL pad isn't selling either. Or ask epods, if you can find them since they folded. I'm not saying give up, but the "build it and they will come" mentality is obviously flawed. Maybe the subscription services sold with the devices is what did them in, maybe just bad marketing or design, but some real research and forethought needs to go into this before someone tries again. just my .02 tho'
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
This was the design the Newton R&D group at Apple was trying to go for when they first started out. It fizzled due to the fact that it would have cost $8000 at the time. We've come a long way since then.
Why is it that a pen is considered to be more natural than a keyboard for typing (a typewriter)? I mean, even writing itself is not something natural in the animal kingdom. We came up with the idea of writing with a stick in some sand, with some paint on the cave walls and now with a keyboard on a computer screen. How can we possibly claim that one way us more natural than another to do an unnatural task?
And forget the writing. Information should be entered into a computer directly with a thought. Evaluating the thought context is what they should concentrate on.
You can't handle the truth.
I'm glad to see the Crusoe finally getting used in some devices. It's been available for months now, and this is the first major product I've seen it in. A web tablet or other sub-laptop device will work just perfectly with the Crusoe processor.
The Crusoe isn't nearly powerful enough to suffice for most notebook users, as users are looking for a device that can handle professional applications like MS Office and StarOffice, and most users will also be playing limited games. The Crusoe simply is not powerful enough to meet the processing demands of the latest games and business software, but it should be ideally suited to a web tablet device, that will be used primarailly for web surfing and light text editing.
Cheers to Microsoft for pioneering the Tablet PC, and choosing Transmeta to power the device.
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
No, I didn't make that up.
Presuming that MS doesn't put any particularly incompatible hardware on the board, I'd expect someone to have a Linux port done in short order... an inasmuch as I don't much care to pay for a copy of Windows I'll not be using, that might be a cost I'm willing to accommodate to have one of these things.
I saw a Sony crusoe-based notebook today and boy, is it sweet! Let's just hope that M$ doesn't tie these into windows - the first thing i'll be doing is formatting the internal storage!
I certainly hope Microshaft doesn't tax the hell out of pricing on these bad boys. With hope, their intentions will be to get every dumb schmoe in America owning one. Then the price will be cheap, and I can buy one. :)
Justin W. Williams
This is scary ... its like ... mater and anti-mater ... .... Im scared
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
The spec sounds reasonable, the components exist to have small current requirements, and a long battery life.
No need to wonder which o/s will be running on this baby.. I don't care - I will still want one.
- This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.
What is this I see?
The brethren of Slashdot joining together to praise Microsoft?
The end is nigh.
"It has that big 'ooh, ah' factor, but people want something they're familiar with, which is the keyboard," Promisel said. Huh? I've been using pens and pencils since I was 5, and crayons since before I can remember! As long as the handwriting software is decent (ie I can actually write letters instead of weird glyphs that I have to memorize), this would rule.
Hi, I just wanted to make a short non violent comment on your post about the Crusoe To Power Microsoft-Based... article on slashdot. You stated that Linux (or other free OSen) should be the only option available to consumers... I'm afraid I don't agree, and I don't think that this falls into the thought pattern of the OS world. If OS operating systems were the only option then they would have a monopoly, OS is about freedom and choice, not about forcing someone to use a particular idea, product or even thought pattern. My $.02
"A will is the minimum requirement for jumping out of an airplane, but a parachute is recommended."
Transmeta's official Crusoe web site
ZDNet > Reviews > Hardware > Crusoe
Apparently the chip delivers as you would expect any chip to, but it runs cooler. That alone is advantageous in several ways. I'm never the first to jump on the bandwagon, but I'm not the last either. I hope this thing really takes off...
Jezz, when was the last time you went to Frys or Circuit City? The smallest laptop on display with that lame half screen that you use a virtual desktop on, that's a Crusoe processor inside. I know this simply because there's 200 signs pointing at it saying "look, an actual product from Transmeta, buy me, buy me!" which no one does as soon as they try it because of that lame screen.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Microsoft is a blatant monopoly; that has been proven in a court of law (the Supreme Court, no less!)
Um no. Only Judge Jackson found that Microsoft is a monopoly. Judge Jackosn is a District Court Judge (the lowest Federal Court).
And yet, Transmeta is aiding Microsoft in their quest to dominate the planet
Maybe Transmeta is a small company that sees a great opportunity to sell their chips to the LARGEST software ocmpany in the world? If they didnt persue this opportunity, they would be sued by every single one of their shareholders.. dont forget, they are in the business to make money!
I Luv Cow-culators!
Linus may expect to get a pink slip any day now... Stranger things have happened.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
It used to be that everybody was Microsoft's friend, back when MS was an OS-and-tools company. It didn't matter that they controlled the OS, because everybody was making money with the growth of the PC. Then MS moved into the applications area, and suddenly, companies like Lotus and Corel (and Netscape!) were history.
All along, the PC manufacturers were happy with MS's domination, because it made life easy and profitable to them. Why bother installing other OS's or applications, as long as they could keep moving boxes?
I wonder how Michael Dell feels now, with MS poking its tentacles in his direction?
hehe... karmma to spare. Do your worst.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Want an inexpensive Windows CE-based web browser, email client, MP3 player, voice memo recorder, rudimentary games machine, and home automation X10 controller that will also create and edit Microsoft Word and Excel files with handwriting recognition and 16-bit color in a package that resembles a space-age Etch-a-Sketch? Get an ePods, hack it and for $199,00 it's all yours.
[Insert the usual disclaimer here]
ZdNet is reporting that Transmeta "will assist Microsoft with tweaks to the Tablet PC's Windows XP operating system." So we could have Linus actually developing Windows XP.
Best Slashdot Co
QBE makes a tablet computer now - Genus. While it isn't wireless out of the box I'm running mine with a wireless card and it works great. They have a new model - Vivo that will be wireless.
These things aren't cheap, but they are pretty neat. Don't know about linux on it yet, but maybe in the future.
PDA's didn't make a dime for anyone until the Palm. Of corse I already have a nice 802.11 laptop, so I'm not going to buy this unless it is dirt cheep and can run my OS of choice.
Just because nobody else has made that market niche pay off doesn't mean MS can't. It also doesn't mean they can.
I hate to break this to you, but there are lots and lots of places that do go for WinNT or 2000 on servers. Maybe they are insane. Maybe NT/2000 really is better for their task (probably because MS has kept the protocol closed). Maybe both.
Because learning institutuions are so slow at implementing programs to teach grade-schoolers to type (not to mention the over 50 crow who never had the chance), the default mode of written language will remain the pen and paper. What this device will do is lower the learning curve allowing the clueless to use the same skills they are learning in school to access the web/word processor.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Remember Go, Eo, General Magic, Grid, Windows for Pens / Winpad, Compaq Concerto, and various WinCE flavors? All crashed and burned. I don't see why this will be any different.
sulli
RTFJ.
This isn't Yet Another Internet Appliance. TabletPC comes as advertised: a full-fledged PC, running Windows XP, not Linux/BeIA/Java with a dumbed-down, captive UI. It will make strong use of "ink" as an input device, but underneath, it's a notebook. The keyboard and mouse are just dockable devices. Wireless networking will come in some combination of wireless Ethernet and Bluetooth, depending of the OEMs' designs.
I absolutely love the idea. It bridges the gap between PDAs and notebooks far better than sub-notebooks like Toshiba Libretto or Sony Vaio C1.
We're not scare-mongering/This is really happening - Radiohead
This sig intentionally left blank.
Yes, you're absolutely right, history has shown that when it comes to making money, Microsoft have no clue. Erm, wait a minute...
Of course you are aware that the Sony PCG-C1VN, which was the first, IIRC, Crusoe product, comes with Windows Me pre-installed.
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
At the CeBit in Hannover on Saturday I was able to hold and play with a ProGear webpad from Frontpath. It features a 400MHz Crusoe and a about 10" touchscreen display. It runs Transmeta's Midori Linux. In the demo version they were running Netscape (only), the X Server let you rotate the view in all directions, and it supports a (not yet finished) handwriting support (and of course on-screen keyboard). In the completed version it will support other applications (i.e. probably be a full Linux system). It was linked up with a WaveLan card and the overall performance was impressive. (From what I heard a touchscreen that big is a pretty tricky thing to implement.) This might be a nice alternative to a MS WebPad, especially for people who like to play with such things - it features almost all the things this MS WebPad will have, and it comes with Linux ;-)
;-)
On the other hand, the people there from Frontpath said that at the moment they are concentrating more on B2B deals - many businesses want to use it for things like taking inverntory, medial purposes, etc. Whether or not this will catch on with the general public remains to be seen... but with all the places that have wavelans set up, it might soon be possible to surf anywhere, anytime
They are both pathetic girly-men compared to Larry "The Enforcer" Ellison.
Bill Gates could personally take a cold hard cash loss of a billion dollars and it wouldn't affect his life style one iota. I'm sure that hes not too worried about Chapter 11.
Besides -- even if it is running Windows Table Edition -- using one of these things would be pretty cool... (Me in my Crocodile Dundee voice to Palm user: "PDA? That's not a PDA! THIS is a PDA!")
Word game?
. . .
to install Windows XP. I guess you could attach a USB floppy drive to save.
karma is for the weak >)
Somebody flunked their high school citizenship course...
Let's see if I can't walk you through this: Above the highest state courts (such as the Florida Supreme Court or the Maryland Court of Appeals) is the lowest federal court, called the U. S. District Court. This is where Microsoft has been found guilty of violating anti-trust laws.
So, they appealed the finding, and they are now appearing in the next step of the ladder, the U. S. Court of Appeals. Only after they're done here and need to appeal again does the case appear before the U. S. Supreme Court (maybe).
As for the input method: it's all a matter of training. This weekend I had the occasion of trying a pen as input device (my uncle is an artist and well, you know Mac + Pen-Input is his thing). Honestly: he had to explain it to me how to use it (the pad is the monitor...), I still wanted to use it as a mouse. For me it was very difficult....I still did the movements I was used from using a mouse which is clearly not the idea.
Oh, and to end in beauty with a quote (contradicting yours, sorry):
"For millions of years mankind lived just like animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk. -- Pink Floyd / Division Bell / Keep Talking
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
2000? We going retro these days?
Seriously though, what's the pricing on these tablets going to be? I have a feeling it's going to be caught in a nasty place between palm-tops and laptops.
Oh and let's not forget battery life.
-- "Sucks to your ass-mar"
Pen computers running Windows are used primarily in vertical markets such as utilities, insurance, health care, transportation, government, and sales force automation. Unbeknownst to the general public, there are dozens of different pen computers available from companies such as Telxon, Symbol Technologies, Fujitsu PC, Fujitsu-ICL, MicroSlate, WalkAbout, Xplore, Melard, Panasonic, Intermec , Itronix (now including Husky), and others. Pen computers come as tablets, clamshells, and slates in many different sizes, configurations, and degrees of ruggedness.
Check out the link for lotsa info and lotsa links.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Okay, perhaps this is off-topic, but I wonder if this would allow me to scribble a flow-chart free-hand and it will convert it into a Visio document??? I would be sold on that in a heartbeat. I can imagine sitting in a meetng scribbling the flow for an app and then sending off the chart to other developers without having to go back to my desk to make the chart from my pathetic notes...
I also see a future for this type of thing in the medical field as long as the security is not by M$FT...
um...just so you know....Open source is an Ideology and not a buissness model. therefore if everything was open source you could not have a monoploy.
-shut up
Step 1 - The XBox. This is a box that will sit in your house, connect up to your internet connection (broadband) and aslo have the side benifit of running games and DVDs. It Will act as the "Computer furnace" for the rest of the devices (coming soon)
Step 2 - The Webpad. You have these screens (Of various sizes and color depth, just watch you'll see all sizes dorn to a cheap 160X160 B/W model) that connect up wirelessly to your information furnace (Step 1) and give you neat-o keen connectivity from anywhere within range.
Step 3 - Terminal Services. As the limitations of the webpad become apparent, Microsoft starts to roll out the ability to use your "Information Furnace" as a Terminal Server. You have all the applications on all your webpads updated at once. No fuss no muss. This is accepted because of:
Step 4 - Application Subscription. The cost for this will be ongoing because the new software will be subscription based. You won't even need to administer your furnace, because the subscription includes monthly maintenance of your furnace. Of course, with persistant internet connectivity, they will always have complete access over all the Microsoft computers on your home network.
This is how Microsoft will get complete control of the home computer arena. They don't tell you to bend all the way over all at once. First, you lean a little, then a little more. Pretty soon you are completely bent over and you don't even know it.
Of course, I could be wrong.
-Joe
This is news? I heard of it months ago.
It's great to have a Tablet PC but what's the point when 90% of the population doesn't have wireless internet access? I live in Canada and very few companies offer wireless internet access around here.
Tablet was the name of the winning entry, and it pretty much predicted all of the technology that Microsoft (and Apple, in their failed Newton pad project) were going to use: thin LCDs, wireless networking, lithium power sources, etc.
Read the winning team's report at http://www3.shore.net/~kht/text/cacm/cacm.htm. It's pretty neat, considering it was written over a decade ago.
The article states that Microsoft is just producing the OS and bundled software. They are building some hardware units but they are just prototypes for hardware companies such as Compaq to follow. Same idea as the PocketPC. If its a flop at worst they are out the cost of porting Windows. If successfully, they can try to sell each TabletPC user TabletExcel, TabletWord, TabletOutlook, TabletXXX......
The Tablet PC press release is here. Images of the Tablet PC from the press release are:
Tablet Prototype
Bert Keely holding Tablet for size
"Above the highest state courts (such as the Florida Supreme Court or the Maryland Court of Appeals) is the lowest federal court, called the U. S. District Court."
Looks like someone else flunked their high school citizenship course.
The Distrcit courts are not "higher" than the State courts. They are merely different forums. In certain circumstances (depending upon the matter of the case) you appeal directly from the State Supreme Court to the US Supreme Court (e.g., Bush v Gore). Depending upon the matter, will decide where the appeal goes.
Just imagine Linus Torvalds presenting this Tablet together with Bill Gates on a press conference...
... err ... it just would be _so_ wrong (and funny!) :)
It
I sit arround the house and surf on my Sony Vaio and 802.11b. I would much rather have something that was a bit more social, a raised laptop screen is kind of anti-social. I don't think I would use the thing for a really text intensive editing session but I would use it to read CNN and the Times and possibly Slashdot.
I have tried the Palm grafiti and it sucks baddly. A large part of the reason though is the puny processor is very slow. I suspect that the need to raise the stylus after each letter is to slow down the input rate to a level the processor can manage.
I have extensively used the CrossPad devices for taking notes. If I had something that would capture my handwritten notes electronically and allow me to go back later and correct the odd mistake I would be quite happy.
According to C|Net While Microsoft is choosing to build its own demonstration systems, the Redmond, Wash.-based software company will leave it up to PC makers to build final versions of the Tablet PC.
So there should not be a channel conflict here. Dell can make the devices if they want to. The reason why Dell is not going to make X-boxes by the way is that games console hardware does not make money for anyone. Sega and Sony make money charging exhorbitant prices for the games to make up for the loss on each console.
The key point is that Microsoft's backing is likely to be enough to create the expectation of critical mass. These things will certainly be built and arrive in the stores fow X-Mas. It is not a sure thing that folk will buy them but very likely that they will.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Yeah, right. Microsoft is going to take technology from Transmeta in order to get Winbloat XP running better on laptops. That is the only reason they are partnering. They do it all the time. Transmeta will get some $$ but Microsoft will end up owning the API's and techniques. They did it to Sybase (SQL), they did it with SpyGlass (Mosaic), they did it to Stac (disk compressor)......
Microsoft is such a powerfull company because they leverage their monopoly power to eliminate competition. IMHO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
The anti-MS clique is quickly becoming a embarrassment.
People come to read Slashdot becuse of the depth of knowledge contained in the contributions.
But look at the recent posts on the "CNET Review WindowsXP". Nearly all the initial contributions were wrong on the important facts. Pure knee-jerk reactions.
For a community that prides itself on its' wealth of knowledgable contributers, this is not a good thing.
Face it folks, Windows2000 is stable as hell...so that argument does'nt fly anymore.
It's time to get over it and move on.
Microsoft has been lobbying against the GPL for one simple reason. Their Trademarked(tm) Strategy(tm) For(tm) Dealing(tm) With(tm) Rivals(tm) doesn't work on GPL'ed work. Microsoft has obviously decided go a step further - if they can't E&E(tm) Linux then they're going to have to take their plan to the next level: They're going to Embrace And Extend Linus Torvalds himself.
Mark my words - over the next few weeks, you'll see Steve Ballmer give Linus a pat on the back at a conference, then it'll be a handshake, pretty soon Bill Himself will welcome Linus to his house with a friendly hug, and then whammo! it'll be Linus on the new Microsoft MS-Rack, being extended so far he'll never be compatible with a keyboard again, much less GCC or the latest kernel.
There's only one thing to do: Linus has to GPL himself. He has to belong to the community. We should be free to take Linus and make any changes we want, as long as those changes are given back to the world, so we can all benefit from each other's Linus innovations. Otherwise, Microsoft might be able to take Linus and make their own, proprietary MS-Linus that isn't compatible with other Linuses, and leverage their market share to make their MS-Linus the standard, stifling other Linuses and preventing innovative new developments and applications of Linus.
We'll have to remember, though, that it won't be "Linus Torvalds" anymore. Strictly speaking, he should now be referred to as "GNU-Linus".
--
Mike Hoye
This may be an historic first. When has there ever before been an article written about Transmeta that failed to mention Linus? One writer, at least, thinks that the whole world has gotten it finally.
After using first a Palm III and then a Vx for a couple of years now, I came in last week to find a new Jornada on my desk. I was instantly excited and went to work setting it up....
What a horribly mangled interface. There's no easy way to switch between applications without quitting back to the main menu and getting a list of all the applications. There's no way to just close the app you're working with, you again have to go out to the main menu and pull up a list of running programs.
Many of the applications written for the "Pocket PC" or WinCE platforms don't deal well with the screen shape and dimensions.... sometimes you're running an app, but you can't pull up the keyboard, and since there's no area set aside for the "scribbling," you're screwed unless you can access the menu to pull it up.
Basically, the PocketPC isn't 1/100th as elegant as the Palm, and I'm completely frustrated every time I pick the thing up. They're basically trying to cram the Windows95 interface into a 2"x3" screen, and it's just not possible, or even worthwhile to try.
Yes, I realize that they're talking about using XP on these tablets, but if they can't get WinCE right in 6 years, my hopes aren't very high.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Sounds strangely like a flat iMac. Besides the interesting fact that Microsoft is now in bed with the father of it's #1 enemy, we can't look past the fact that MS still has never come up with an idea of it's own.
Here we have a cheap, simple, attractive machine that comes AFTER Apple introduced a... cheap, simple, attractive machine (with a CRT).
And we wait...
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================
Microsoft is not the answer, Microsoft is the question. The answer is "no".
> Umm, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Linux should be the ONLY option available. If Linux, not Windows were the standard, all the nerds would be gushing over this "Bill" guy up at Microsoft who's company has this alternative to the evil Linux monopoly !
Wow, sounds like a laptop with the screen facing up and you can use a pen like you can on PDAs. wooooo. Give them points for reusing old technology. I'm not saying these won't be cool, just that its about as innovative as adding a color screen to a PDA, its more along the lines of "well, duh." This sounds like it will be just like a PDA only bigger. Why not just mix it in with eletronic ink? That would make it thinner, use less power, add more contrast, and would probably be a lot cooler then these things.
"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one."
You want a wireless web pad? Buy one now. Buy an Epods. The EPods is a real live web pad, with all the functionality required of such a device: web browsing, simple data entry, and wireless capability (just shove a 802.11 PCMCIA card into it). And they don't cost an arm and a leg.
The kicker is that the epods runs on a low power MIPS chip, with great battery life, and uses flash memory for storage, so there is no harddrive. It is tough as nails and absolutely silent. Did I mention the battery life (8 hours)? Don't wait another year for a noisy, hot, short-lived "Tablet PC" from Brother Bill, get one now.
... and it'll take you about 20 seconds to get used to the Trackpoint device's virtual-resolution feature.
In short, RTFM before flaming the PCG-C1VN. It's easily the coolest toy I've run across in the last 5 or 6 years. If it helps, don't think of it as a PC with a small screen -- think of it as a PDA with a huge screen.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
It also hasn't shown particularly that they have a clue anywhere except a certain monopolistic operating system. Also a few closely associated applications where they illegally leveraged the operating system to gain market share e.g. wordprocessors (allegedly), web browsers (as found by a court)...
Nothing kills quicker than believing your own press.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"I decided late last year to invest in a Casio Fiva MPC-501 (see Casio's web site) and I love the form-factor. It's a Cyrix-based platform so it runs Win98SE and the usual Office apps without a hitch. Only problems I've had are: * that the Win98 UI relies so heavily on right-mouse-button clicks/drags, something that is difficult with the pen input. Also, you can't "hover" your mouse without clicking (although some serious coding could use the hardware buttons as clicks and the pen as only positioning.) * input methods are poor (much worse than WinCE), handwriting recognition shouldn't be the only option for input (given that I want to program on it while on the road.) It seems that more vendors are coming out with tablet formfactors (and hybred desktop tablets, this seems to be a waxing/waning cycle, IBM and Compaq made x86 tablet computers in '94, for example.) All I can do is *hope* MS would offer the Tablet PC O/S to the existing user base... (Haven't tried Linux yet, not having found much in the way of web sites discussing Linux on an x86 tablet...people are way too busy porting to PocketPC form factors right now. Pointers would be appreciated.)
Right, so I think what our friend is trying to say is that the "Ideology" that you speak of, can't/wouldn't support a boycott of anybody. The OS community would be thrilled if Bill Gates and Steve Allen would sign on. We would welcome the resources with open arms. Of course we would never turn or back on them, but still....
TEN
Wuggers wrote: "Why would anyone need so much processing power in a web tablet? Let's be reasonable about what these devices can be conventiently used for: comfortable data retrieval (great form factor, no wires, very nice), and unobtrustive data entry (the electronic legal pad). People aren't going to be cruching numbers on them, writing novels, etc. Why a 10Gb harddrive?! A full desktop OS!? This is insanity!"
... whay the heck *shouldn't* someone be able / happy to write a novel on a web pad? Anything with a USB port can take a keyboard, and a webpad with one of the new USB happy hacker boards sounds better to me than the usual laptop.
... why limit when the limits aren't inherently good? A big hard drive? Cool! Maybe I'll use it as an in-field dumping station for digital pictures or even video. Why the heck not?! :) Add a small USB camera, it's my portable videoconference system.
Eh?
Not that a less-endowed web pad would not also be cool (the Epod is a cool one), but I dunno
But whatever it ends up being used for, you sound anxious to limit its options -- why?! A webpad might end up being the guts of a wearable, a remote data station, a giant remote control, home automation doodad, e-book, portable knowledge base, whatever. It's like "640kb ought to be enough for anybody"
And re: "a full desktop OS" being insanity, well, it depends what constitutes "full" and "desktop" -- certainly I'd like the OS to be appropriate to the device, but in a device with a moderately powerful x86, memory, and a nice screen, why cripple it with a weak OS? There are small Linux distros all over, and 128MB isn't too slouchy. Not huge (anymore) but not bad, and plenty to play with.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Whoever lopped points off of this needs to be clobbered.
This rates at right about Score: 3, Funny.
Someone lacks a sense of humor.
Hey, we all know how Microsoft makes more money off its own stock than it does selling product, right? (The bit where they pay employees by stock options, get to write that off their taxes, and the tax refund is worth more than sales of Office?)
Well, hey, it's looking to become a bear market -- so Microsoft is doing the obvious: they're *GONNA SHORT THEIR OWN STOCK!**
Brilliant, eh? Make megabucks by driving their own share prices down.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
- Killed off competition
- Solidified Windows and NT as the office and residential OS of choice.
Now, Microsoft is attempting to use that same "vertical" strategy in the internet, by trying to make the internet microsoft-only. Win2k is a great operating system and in many ways I believe it is far superior to linux. However, it has a fatal flaw: It only works with 100% microsoft environment. Networking is not OS sensitive, and my personal belief is that in the long term the dominant players in networking enabled devices (appliances, pcs, servers, pdas, whatever) will be those that support the broadest number of industry protocols and cross-platform standards.Someone you trust is one of us.
I want one NOW. WHERE is it? I want to run linux on it.
Tablet PC's is the same old waporware in new clothing.
Damn, A software company has a perfect right to bundle software together.
__________________
Just a guy with an opinion
Maybe NT/2000 really is better for their task (probably because MS has kept the protocol closed)
First of all, what the hell are you referring to with "protocol"? What protocol? Kerberos? win32? What utter nonsense. Not only do you not say what you mean, but even if you did there's no way it could make sense. Having a closed protocol will not help your product be better for a specific task. It will in fact make it worse, less compatabile, less reliable, and less secure. Microsoft has a monopoly so they can use protocols to leverage their market share into other markets like servers and pdas. It's really a shame that people are starting to feel sorry for microsoft and (especially on slashdot) rooting for them as some sort of underdog. What happened to the pioneering spirit? Down with microsoft! -they used to say... sigh. Maybe the youngin's growing up today don't care. Maybe they forgot what digital Freedom really means. Maybe their first OS experience was win95 (most likely if you're younger than 18).... sigh. I will still fight for personal liberty. Call me a myopic old-timer.. whatever. I still know what it's like to be free.
I have to wonder if this is in response to that move. They didn't annouce any release date so this could be yet another Micros~1 FUD tactic.
These tablet PC's appear to have excellent market potential if done properly. I've been waiting for something like this for years to replace ALL my remaining uses for paper. But the problem is.. MS is going to be writing the OS and functionality software and therefore GNU/BSD people are going to be missing out. I say we start now and have equivalent GNU/BSD software ready for when the tablet PC's ship. In fact, how about BETTER software.. that runs faster and does more than WinXP.
And think of the cool things we could do with such devices.. like design a cryptographically secure p2p networking system so you could say.. play games or files/music/etc. with your buddies during class or lunchbreak. Or how about speech recognition / synthesis? Or a head-mounted display? Here's another idea: "e-book" software that is truly well designed and uses no proprietary formats or copy control mechanisms. Imagine if while writing a report, you could just highlight a selection and it would automatically be quoted and properly referenced. Imagine where we could go with electronic books in general if there were no copy controls. (You know the MS version will have them) Universities and students could easily write and openly "publish" many of their textbooks. Development of materials could be shared and the "many eyes" approach would ensure far greater accuracy than having one or two authors and a handful of people submitting corrections. There are a lot of potentials here, but the point is, we need FREE SOFTWARE to turn this technology into something truly wonderful.
There's already pen-based software available for linux (including, in-progress, some grafitti-like stuff), and anyhow -- being that these things will have keyboards, existing software should do just fine. Booting really is a question, though -- projects like this are more than slightly liable to use cheap components which sacrifice compatibility.
I feel blessed! A classic 'I don't care whether its illegal or not, it's right(!) darn it(!) to do X' statement. Haven't seen one of them in a few weeks now!
Atleast one court has already so decided it was illegal. Not MY logic I'm afraid. Perhaps the law is wrong. Still in a democracy we only really have the law; and as you demonstrate so well, ethics do vary.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"It had some applicability back when, but nowadays X has a tendency to just work on most computers without really requiring any fidling at all. And for every anecdote about someone's X setup not working on linux out of the box, I'll give you one about it not working on windows.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Sure, a pen is more "traditional", but it sure isn't efficient! Give me keyboards! Give me speach recognition (although I have privacy concerns with that... try writing your resume at the office that way!), give me thought-readers (uh-oh, how'd Meg Ryan's breasts end up in my presentation?)
MadCow. kevin@removeThis.cazabon.com
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
The TabletPC is not trying to imply that using a pen is more natural. It's just more convenient. You can write a lot of stuff with one hand -- one hand holding the tablet, and one hand holding the pen, while walking around.
I'm sure down the road you will see these tablets using voice recognition, freeing one hand (at least).
And eventually, you won't hold the tablet at all, you'll wear it, and the interface will appear as though it's floating in, translucently, before you, but only when you want to see it.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
"And like that
Given this apparent 'snub' from what is historically their largest business partner, perhaps Intel will make an extra effort to push the StrongARM-derived XScale architecture.
This architecture is particularly suitable for web appliances - indeed the majority of the world's web appliances and set top boxes currently use ARM technology. So maybe Intel will pull the carpet from under Microsoft's feet on this one, by making the XScale the dominant web appliance architecture.
It will certainly be interesting to see which product has the greater ability to set the standard for a fast-growing market; Microsoft's software, or the low-power chips of Intel/ARM? Not that this choice is mutually exclusive of course (WinCE runs on ARM after all) - but this is certainly a major crack in an old partnership.
Good news for Transmeta, of course - all this development makes the Crusoe seem a little less commercially vaporous...
arnald
Hmmm.. combining the Slashdot community's favorite "I hate it just because" and "I love it just because" subjects into one device.
I picture a lot of people out there thinking "Does... not... compute..."
How will the mental hospitals cope with the influx?
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
I have one. OK, so it's my school's but I get to play with it. It runs a 486 33MHz, has a BW 640x480 (I think, don't remember) screen, Li ion battery, decently ok handwriting recog (similar to palm, but the glyphs are closer to normal and recognize somewhat worse. It runs DOS and windows for pen computing 1.0 (win3.11), has some networking stuff I never fixed, an 80MB 2.5" IDE disk, an external floppy, 4MB of memory (expandable to 12 if we knew where to get the card), a PCMCIA slot, and external kbd if desired, standard serial/parralel/ps2 ports, and a little thing to hold the pen. Pretty neat, never went to Linux because we didn't want to figure out the touch screen. They're several years old, we got them from Duke. Oh yeah, and they drop to 25MHz on battery power. Sound familiar? And battery life is at least the 1 1/2 hour class period.
I wasn't specific because it was a general point. It could be their Kerb5 extension. It could be Office2000 file formats (which I think of as protocols). Having their protocol closed makes their program no better at implementing it, but it makes all other programs worse because they have to work off of guesses and experiments. Their protocols are also (likely) to be worse then openly developed ones.
Where did you see me feeling sorry for them? Or rooting for them? I only said they might not fail. I didn't say if I wanted them to fail or not. I doubt this box makes a big difference, the Xbox is probably much more important to them. WindowsXP is way more important then either. I want all three to fail. However my desire for them to fail doesn't change their chances of failure.
I can want the webpad to fail, but that doesn't mean it will. If the only reason someone else says it will fail is all others in the niche have failed, I think it is a damn good idea to point out the flaw in that argument, even if I want the same thing they do.
I may want the Xbox to fail, but I have to admit that there seems to be a lot of people who are talking like they will buy it.
I may want WindowsXP to fail, but I have to admit it doesn't sound like they have screwed it up badly enough to lose out (they would be screwed if someone else had a "decent" offering that could run all the Win98 crud).
Nice to be mistaken for a snot-nosed kid. I assure you, I remember pre-microsoft. Or at least before they had an OS (they were cranking out BASIC interpreters for 8biters when I started).
M$ will port to anything that runs the x86 instruction set. Anything else is, iffy...
They have certainly never been able to port their OS to any other platform.
To those who say that M$ has never implemented an OS on the x86 either, I say "yeah, ain' dat da troof!"
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You can look at this information as you will, but we now are in the bed of the enemy. We have lost and M$ is our king. Linux in whatever form is headed for obscurity. Transmeta was our bastion for revolution, now it is the knife cutting our throats. We are now, officially screwed.. OUT
...and then once the code is handed over to Alan Cox (a known member of the freemasons), all of the members will unite in the super secret base in Black Mesa Labs in New Mexico and fly to mars and live in the face that they carved there and be reunited with their leader, Jimmy Hoffa.
conspiracy theories, they're great
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"Counting in octal is just likst counting in decimal--if you don't use your thumbs."
Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
MS have a pcode compiler, transmeta have a processor for running x86 as pseudo code on a processor core.
Maybe they'll do a Transmeta chip that runs native C#/.NET pseudo ops.
Just like there are native Java ops processors.
It's like a real life episode of CatDog; Well if Linus can't code on the project, maybe they'll let him help keep the Microsoft people from saying some of the really stupid stuff that keeps everybody at slashdot rolling on the floor!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Believe it or not, most companies expect their business parters to also do business with their competitors. Only idiots (e.g. Linux zealots) see everything in black and white.
...if you even want to use these things in the first place. Hey, you can just write on paper too! ;)
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind