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Another Free Operating System: NewOS
JigSaw writes: "Is the world ready for yet another Operating System? Travis Geiselbrecht, an ex-BeOS kernel engineer, seems to think so. (He is actually the one who wrote the Linux ext2 filesystem add-on for BeOS). He recently put up on his web site his personal Operating System, NewOS, with full source code. The OS was written from scratch and it is very modern and powerful as you can see from its feature set. It currently runs on x86 and... Sega Dreamcast but he is planning ports for Alpha, SGI and Sun Blade machines in the near future."
Looks like the license is based on the BSD. At least Stallman won't be coming around wanting to rename it GNU/NewOS. I'd hate to see version 2.0: New GNU/NewOS. And so on and so on...
t.
Funny. In the eyes of some still, Linux is not a "real OS." And never will be.
Some in Microsoft surely hold this opinion. And this was an opinion definitely held in the past, even by those fairly knowledgeable in the computer field.
Are you now devolving this to this low standard of blasting an effort before you've even loaded the product? That simply because it's new and that others, totally independent of this effort, have failed, that this project will?
Heck, where on earth on any part of the pages did he say, "We want to rule the world via this OS?" Unlike another OS that does (MS) and another OS humorously states its intentions as such (Linux), this guy seems to have just put this up for fun.
He's not even looking for money. He put up a page on a project of his. Someone posted it on /..
GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND. People don't always use the dominant OS, or the one furthest along in development. They use the one that best fits their needs, whether that be by interest, technical merit, or shear joy in working on it.
Look at Linux. Look at OpenBSD. etc. etc. If people choose to put time into an OS, that's their business. Not yours. Linus did, and I'd guess that his "Best of luck to him" OS probably runs on your freakin machines.
On a side note, the Dreamcast uses the very cheap RealTek RTL8139 10/100 Ethernet chip, which is also in many low-end PC PCI network adapters (like mine).
Despite what many people seem to think, an OS is not an inherently complex thing.
c:\> THAT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE OS.
No, you are completely wrong in saying that pussy=fitta in Swedish. In fact, the Swedish word for pussy is "mikrosoft" which is very similar to the name of the well-known company "Microsoft".
TravOS!!!
Ah, finally some Open Source Desktop system with some friendlyness for lamers. Linux/FreeBSD/etc is a good OS for servers and for workstation use by geeks, but *not* for normal users. I also think that's actually the reason the Linux Desktop market is collapsing.
/stable/ Open Source BeOS clone could get a large share of the desktop market.
AtheOS was a good initiative and I really think a good
Aren't they dead yet?
Why port to Sega Dreamcast? Why run linux on a Sparc? Why do this? Why do that?
I'm sick and tired of questions like these. For the love of God, can't someone do something for fun? Obviously, this guy has fun doing it or he wouldn't. So why not port your personal operating system to a Dreamcast?
Heck, my pc came with its own OS already. Why did I dump it in favor of Debian? Because I like Linux and I don't like Windows. Linux is fun.
"Anytime I see a booyah! in source code I know it's quality."
:-)
To conform to mil-spec, that line would have to be changed to "hooah!"...
Let's try not to let fact interfere with our speculation here, OK?
yes, it's just it's polite southern manners that are causing it to wait until the confederacy has its turn . . .
hawk
>in no way competing against linux/*bsd/hurd/etc.
hawk
It gets worse. Microsoft would proclaim that they invented the BLT years before anybody else did but forgot to tell anybody. They would then lobby the government to have sandwich-hacking tools declared illegal. Suddenly anyone in possession of a butter knife is guilty until proven innocent. Microsoft then bundles a donut inside every BLT, claiming that this increases consumer choice because every consumer likes to eat donuts. Customers found removing the donut from their sandwich are cut-off from future BLT supplies because they have "ruined the Microsoft BLT experience".
The DVD CCA then wraps their own sandwich (a ham and baloney) in cling wrap and announces that this is an anti sandwich hacking device. They then take out a patent on cling wrap, claim that anybody opening the cling wrap to eat the sandwich is doing so to steal the intellectual property of the sandwich, and have cling wrap circumvention devices (such as fingers) outlawed with the government's blessing. Instead you need to hire the services of a DVD CCA employed Cling Wrap Removal Expert whenever you want to unwrap the sandwich. Naive customers who unwrap their own sandwich are sued by the DVD CCA. The customer claims that they did so only to eat the sandwich but the judge slaps the customer silly anyway.
Maybe we should all be glad that sandwiches have heaps of prior art.
I think it's more likely that the toolsets are simply better now. 30 years ago if you wanted to build an OS, first you wrote the cross-assembler, then the boot strap, then the drivers, then the kernel, then the libraries, and then if you had any more steam left you wrote something useful like a text editor.
These days - mostly thanks to GNU - you get a cross-assembler and compiler for free. There are plenty of libraries already written (GNU and BSD at least). In the case of AtheOS you get most of the difficult device drivers via the BIOS. And once you're done, if you wrote a POSIX alike OS, you can fully populate user space in a day with some quick compilations.
And keep in mind that computers today compile 10000 lines of code faster than you can fart. 30 years ago you punched paper tape and waited for a week while the compiler chugged.
And the documentation! You can buy excellent books discussing in excruciating detail the exact workings of an OS. 30 years ago you probably had to invent half the concepts yourself!
It's simply so much easier to write an OS - in fact any software - these days.
The basics that he has now, while amazing, are pretty much still basic. 32bit OS's have been done to death - there is a lot of reference material...many books on OS design, 386 architechure, etc...
Now...the Win32 API is HUGE. There are so many minor compatability things between this and that revision (WindowOpen, WindowOpenEx). And while the function calls are documented (though sometimes not well) it's figuring out what is done behind the scenes that is taking time.
The one thing that annoys me most is the lack of uniform look and feel among applications. All the different toolkits and incompatible desktop environments are a product of this. There is no way that you can say "give me a button" or "add an alias/shadow/shortcut/link to this application" and make it work as you wanted. You can't specify that all applications should behave the Gnome way in your user account, or the KDE way for another user.
X is built for remote displaying: run the apps on one computer, see the results on another. This is a smart feature, but again solved in a bad way. Every pixel changed is transmitted, instead of high-level commands like "draw button with text 'blah' and dimensions 80, 35 at 3, 3".
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
If you want to do something for the open source community right now, the last thing you would want to do is write another OS. Linux, and all other open source OS:es, lacks a good graphical user environment. Notice "good", which rules out X immediately. A completely new, OOUI environment with standard libs for widgets would help out incredibly much. It would remove most of the arcane design choices that were taken with X.
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
You know this is a damned funny idea.
-- The Theorem Theorem: "If if, then then."
The hell it does! I'm a native speaker of Hindi so I ought to know.
rmathew.com
...right =) CIPA is the "Children's Inline Protection Act" - proposed to protect our children from the perils of Inline Skates, which, as everone knows, can cause severe, lasting trauma in children, considered worse, even, than pr0n by some prominent physicians and psychologists that I will conveniently fail to mention by name. We must make sure it passes, so that we can protect the children from being scarred for life. We must outlaw the use of Inline Skates in public places, such as libraries, and schools! We must prevent the unauthorized sale of Inline Skates to those under the age of 30, by severely punishing those evil, EVIL storeowners who push their wares on our unsuspecting, innocent children!
;P by me, for poor humor and sarcasm.
This post has been rated
Isin't newOS the default folder name Microsoft Operating System Creator uses for a new project?
...something as familiar and well-defined as an OS...
MSDOS, QNX, BeOS, Windows 2000, Linux kernel, Redhat Linux distro, Kallisti OS and many others are all described by their creators as an "OS". They all offer very different 'levels of service' and facilities to their client processes.
It's not well-defined.
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
In Standard C, getc() returns either a character value, c, as (int)(unsigned char)c, or EOF. So in Standard C you would write something like this instead:
#include <stdio.h> /* implicit cast to char */ /* implicit cast to int */
int main()
{
int i;
char c;
while ((i = getc()) != EOF)
{
c = (unsigned char)i;
pr intf("%c", c);
}
return 0;
}
> Amiga (it's dead, face it!)
So what better use for it than playing around with his OS?
His page says "Also, I seemed to have collected a bunch of old non-x86 machines that need something running on them. I figure, "Hey, why dont I just port my OS over?" The rest is history."
--
rant
No. It just crashed VMWare for me.
Hey, I thought this comment was funny.
Please mod it up.
-Kevin
Could this be the next bandwagon? Anyone's Jon Katz detector buzzing yet?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
That's really not the point of this OS. NewOS is simply the author's own attempt at writing an OS for personal education and fun. NewOS is in no way competing against linux/*bsd/hurd/etc.
;-)
I'm guessing that the author of NewOS is learning great deals of new skills, and maybe someday he'll come up with something revolutionary to share with the world. And he's got the right philosophy: release the code!
I wish I was skilled enough to write my own OS!
-Vic
Isn't it funny how many developers can write their own unix-like-OS, yet a whole team of developers haven't yet fully implement the windows 32 bit libraries of top of linux?
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
No, the machine as such only has a booter and some basic tools (memory pack management, play CD) - the "real" OS ships on the game/GD-ROM/whatever, most often this is Sega's OS, sometimes it's Windows CE - and smetimes it's apparently NetBSD or NewOS. :-)
My computer is handling 22 processes right now. That can be a lot for just one computer..
> ps ax | wc -l
92
22 processes a lot? You what?
--
Delphis
Delphis
And that's too bad, because it means while there is lots of OS which are currently written very few are usefull..
For me an OS is an interface between applications and the hardware.
Having applications for a new OS is easy: implement POSIX.
But at the lower level, there is no standard for the device drivers, so usually these new OS works on very few hardware..
GGI seems quite dead, that is too bad..
If this person can create a new OS kernel that is faster than BSD, Solaris, Linux, Windows, etc, and can replace lets say the Linux kernel .. then he has a big chance at success. The fact is that if you can create a new kernel like what the hurd is doing and to have it work as a drop in replacement into lets say the Linux kernel then he can have success. Ideally if he had a micro kernel that could actually run some of linux drivers with little modification he could go somewhere.
I doubt it, I think Linux is having enough trouble surviving and I think that the effort of the hurd, atheos, beos, and him could be better spent in improving an existing system, like Linux, (one of the BSD's), or any other Open Source OS.
just my opinion though.
good luck guy..............
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
And pussy means "cat" in English!
The guy's homepage makes it sound like this is
his effort to explore OS design not to design
yet another OS for mass consumption, which may
be why he is not looking for help.
Do remember that a lot of those links are dead. Not too surprising, but since the commentary on the OS isn't marked with a date one has no idea of how recently a "quite active" project actually was at all active.
That said, most of them are active, and it's a good source of information on where to get system code.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Is Open Source getting too scattered? No. That's the point of it. Consider the hill-climbing problem. If you want to avoid a local maximum, what you do is start your hill-climber at several different points. Lots of climbers is better than a few smart ones. Each one just heads up-hill, and then when it reaches a point where every direction is down-hill, it says "I'm at the top."
To find the highest point you can reach, you survey the climbers, and choose the highest. If you don't think that he's at the top, you take all of the lower ones (that have finished climbing) and randomly redistribute them.
This can be fine tuned, but that's the idea. And that' open source development. Lots of developers starting in lots of different places, and heading uphill. (Well, you can see that it's really a bit more complex, but that's one valid abstraction of the process.)
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I have two 64-bit desktops - SGI & Sun. Second hand SGI & Sun boxes are pretty cheap these days.
The Dreamcast, though, runs on the *32-BIT* Hitachi SH-4.
SQL Error
Anybody tried this out under VMware yet?
Can this simple computer multitask? My computer is handling 22 processes right now. That can be a lot for just one computer..
cpeterso
NewOS vs GNU/NewOS
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
The mantra of the myopic...
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
>Other than that, your question is legitimate.
Shame your answer wasn't.
I believe the poster was looking for a "IANAL..." response, not grammar correction. But as long as we're in an analysing mood:
Oh, open source sandwiches definitely make sense!
If there's a roach in a proprietary Microsoft BLT, you won't know about it until you've swallowed it and contracted some horrible disease. With open source sandwiches, you can send your changes back to the developer.
Of course, you could just reverse-engineer your sandwich and look to see if there's a bug in it, but that's not legal persuant to the DMCA.
darius
darius
Fred Brooks' book, "The Mythical Man-Month", notes this is actually fairly common. But it's two to three times harder, he says, to make a prototype into a product, and two to three times harder than that to make it a system component.
The extra effort comes from testing, making sure it works under the weird cases that the developer knows to avoid, testing, adding interface code to make it usable to others, testing, adding features that people besides the developer want, testing, conforming to existing standards, and testing.
Now, studies have shown that some programmers can be an order of magnitude more productive than others. And making a usable OS, however limited, is a heck of an accomplishment. But it's not quite as amazing as it first appears.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
ummm... booyah? You mean this?
Booyah For a Crowd
Or do you mean the word that in certain Nguni languages (e.g. Zulu) means "Come here?"
:)
P.S. Don't ask me how the Zulu word is spelt, but I'm sure it's not like that.
-- Wodin
*cartman voice*
Sega Dreamcast!
---------
---------
Get back to me when my brain starts working.
no, not on every gd... only some dreamcast games use windows ce. soul calibur for example uses the katana devkit, which is 100% sega libraries and no wince code anywhere at all.
Gimme a break-- need attention, eh?
Bleah. 'nuff said.
:wq
Basic CPU design is actually a lot easier than c-like compilers. I re-implemented, from scratch, an 8-bit design presented in a comp-arch class in about 6 hours of development. Another 2 and I had it pipelined and the simulations were running at about 4x the original design spec. Welcome to the world of modern HDL's. My estimated transistor count wasn't much larger than the original either, although it was large enough that if I were actually in the original designers shoes I would have had to do some serious work to trim it down.
There is - it is called VCD.
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
But you can patent them, the way Smuckers did.
Best Slashdot Co
And Jobs begat Gassee who begat Geiselbrecht who begat...
MacOS, NeXT, BeOS, NewOS...
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
That reference to the dreamcast network driver sticks out like a sore thumb. It doesn't run on an SH4, but it has drivers for the DC's NIC? Why?
--
Of course, if this approach was taken we might not have Linux right now!
Custom MIPS 4300i running at 93.75MHz (rounding off.) Don't ask me why I know this.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Ha ha. I always loved how WinCE without caps was a very accurate term for the facial expression you get when using it. Something that seems to have gotten past the MS marketing dept.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Tsk, tsk tsk. Is Rasterman the only geek with some asthetic sense? Names DO matter. UNIX, for example, is a very cool name. It makes you feel good to run a UNIX machine. However, the new gen of OSS programmers is ignoring the good-naming heritage of their UNIX ancestors. Linux just sounds nasty, GNOME sounds GIMPy (oh god, bad pun), XFce sounds gross, and all the G's and K's in GNOME and KDE apps creates a very childish resemblance to all the 64's at the end of Nintendo games. On the other hand, KDE is pretty good, ORBit is plausible, aRts is really nice sounding and fitting, and X is just plain cool.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Lexus, yech. If I bought a car that expensive, it would only be with a Jag license plate. It's not marketing, but style. I don't agree with style over substance, or substance over style. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you make the hype, you better have the goods to back it up. If you have to goods, don't forget the hype to show it off. In the end, to each his own. There is no rule that says that nerds are not allowed to have any artistic sense.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
My point exactly - of course it should have been called OTROFVMS - "Old technology ripped off from VMS" :-) but when you get too close to Redmond the reality distortion field kicks in ....
if it takes off 10 years from now you'll be sorry ....
...does anyone have a link or reference to this?
"Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
And you get to replace WinCE with a free Open OS
A Skoda is for life, not for casual humour.
As Steve Maguire said in "Writing Solid Code," programmers need to be aware of the interfaces they are working with. getc returns an int, not a char! It is a poorly designed function interface that you should be aware of.
:)
For the record, the definition is int getc(FILE *stream);
Maybe the booyah was a bit premature.
--
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
They were CISC, and RISC outran them.
They were caught in the AI Winter downdraft.
LispOS was harder to port than Un*x.
Mass parenthephobia.
They were The Right Thing (see section 2.1) and were killed off by the New Jerseyites.
Choose any or all of the above.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
In those good ol' days we all hand-coded our own OS - the difference between those good ol' days and NewOS is the degree of compleksity, networking and the hero: Linus.
I am also currently working on my own hobby Open Source OS, and have considered a job at Be after I graduate, doing kernel level stuff. The thing I was concerned about was Be reacting to my involvement in an Open Source project where I might feel compelled to implement similar solutions to the BeOS kernel, and thus leak Be's trade secrets. I am sure this would be a serious issue for someone in my position, but I wonder, as an ex-employee, whether the author of this OS has received any heat from his former employer.
120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
I don't find this to terribly new. There are literally hundreds of OS projects like this one, at various stages of completion. Read alt.os.development sometime, there are plenty of brilliant people toiling away on their hobby operating systems. Recently the developer (or someone pushing it) posted a link to this OS on the newsgroup, but the page was in Italian or Portugese. Needless to say, good way to frustrate a bunch of OS developers!
For some info on developing your own OS check out:
http://www.execpc.com/~geezer/os/
Is just one of the regulars (well not too regular these days) on the newsgroup. The "Triple Fault Club" is kind of funny actually. Everyone's OS has flummoxed many a frustrated x86 processor at some point! From his site I learned some of the ropes. Also check out some of the sites on the webring. Many OSes, varying from toys to useable systems.
BTW, people on the newsgroup generally sneer at any OS named ____OS or ___ix. There are so many ChrisOS, and DaveOS, and Winix and Finix and Pukenix, etc...
But of course there is MacOS and Linux...
120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
Q "Can't people be more descriptive of a product or technology than just calling it "New"?" /Q
Names really aren't important (ie slashdot), except to marketing folks. Product matters. I haven't looked at NewOS in a while, time to look again.
My personal feeling is that anyone who can code an OS, should. That doesn't mean we should all use it, or even that the author should. But they should publish it, just for the sake of prior art.
Thanks for making my point. UNIX names are the best example of names not mattering. Xthis. Xthat... yeah good... cool.
You ~feel~ cool because you run Unix? You probably ~feel~ cool because you drive a Lexuz. That's called marketing. It does not make the product popular beyond the first three quarters of it's introduction. Cool is a product with value and staying power, feeling cool is the job of a lite beer.
and cat means append to in *nix
MIPS (whose supporting that anymore?)
haha, this is so funny because i think you're actually serious. there are shitloads of companies suporting the MIPS processor and it's extrememly popular in the embedded market. there are a hel of a lot of devices that you probably use on a daily basis that use a MIPS processor, not to mention all the Cisco equipment this message passes through to get to you.
for a group that's supposedly in tune with technology it suprises me how many of the slashbots are so unbelieveably igornant. if it's not a PC it doesn't matter i guess. hah.
- j
Oh, eloquently put, AC. I stand speechless before your refined erudition. I'm glad my desire for intellectual commentary on my thoughts did not go unanswered.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If it is a "collective unconscious" thing though, that's going to blow a personal hypothesis of mine out of the water; that being that the collective unconscious (if it even exists) is primarily a genetic race memory thing. The explosion of knowledge that we're seeing in this field would tend to point to other factors.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
As was noted by someone, he doesn't seem to ask for help either, so I think that sums it up quite well.
Still, this is nice but I'm not sure it's stuff that matters© that much. Oh well...
"Naughty, naughty, naughty, you filthy old soomka !"
Call me off topic, but the first thought I got was, "Booya" is one of Zell's limit breaks in Final Fantasy 8. Isn't that obscure or what? =)
Rather than have one secure, stable, feature-ridden tool, I would prefer a toolbox full of sharp, consise and dangerous tools anyday. Just because I carry a Swiss Army knife doesn't mean I want to build a house with one.
Anything is possible given time and money.
No, there's a version of WinCE on every game cd (gd? what do you call the media for a "gd-rom"?). Anyway, I don't own a dreamcast, this is just one of those things I've read a coupla times along the way.
er.. if he's done a "c-like" language before it's not really that hard. He would just be redoing something that he's done before. he probably could make a simple c-like language in a few days.
Like this guy who wrote this OS had done it before, just from looking at the code he really did seem to know what he was doing, there wasn't a lot of fucking around and rough edges, hed done it before and is able to take a fresh start very quickly.
anyway, just my 2c.
-Jon
this is my sig.
Just make sure to send your changes back before consuming the sandwich, for the love of god. If you thought merging your code into CVS was messy...
Yup. In polish. I worked with a couple of poles in the Netherlands, and they used to absolutely crack up at dessert time, when they were offered an ice cream called "Chipolata." Apparently something to do with discharge. They always declined politely, as they snickered.
Well, Hindu is definitely NOT a language, Hindi is more close to the target. And with my meagre language of Hindi (I'm from the same country, India but speak Bengali) there is no such word. I may be wrong, but I think I'm not.
cheers.
Wonder about the file system implementation though, how much is it based on BeFS? Hope it won't engendered a legal dispute..
michel
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
High UID kids these days -- no respect for their history. ;-)
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
--
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
- Atari
- Dreamcast
- Amiga (it's dead, face it!)
- MIPS (whose supporting that anymore?)
At least there's no PowerPC port. That would be a bad omen for Apple!By the way, this isn't troll...I'm just stating an obvious anachronism.
Ryan Finley
Ryan Finley
SurveyMonkey.com -- Create your own professional surveys
From the web site:
NewOS is NOT a desktop replacement, Windows killer, or even useful. It may later grow into something that someone may use to get things done, but it probably wont.
That's enlightening now...
Donate free food to the hungry at The Hunger site.
True enough,
I believe in this thought: If what the parent of this posts parent did not make you think back to when you have went over a similar endeavor (writing/studying OS and Compilre design) and you dont find it at the VERY least rewarding to say, I wrote an OS and drivers for it.. Then You should reconsider your career.
Jeremy
or at least an install FAQ. how can slashdot infuriate and frustrate so, to post a fun new OS which can't be installed?
The REAL sam_at_caveman_dot_org is user ID 13833.
I thought Hindu was a religion, not a language?
Thats a good point, but that does make the Dreamcast port doubly interesting - with a standardised set of hardware, there is a far far smaller requirement to spend your days toiling over device drivers, so we might be able to get this up and running.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Its just a guess (I don't know the author), but if I wanted to port my new operating system that I'd built as a hobby on my PC to another platform, then the one over there by the TV that I already own, rather than going out and spending a bunch of cash on buying a mac, SPARC, whatever machine. The Dreamcast is turning out to be quite a fun little box for homegrown development - take a look at some of the sites where things like emulation and even a sourceport of Quake have been performed.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
The page says he will port it to the Atari Falcon, which means it will probably run on my TT too. Question is: will it be better than TOS and MiNT? ;)
And poke her, with the soft cushions!!!
Uh, it's grammar.
There happens to be no such language called hindu. If it is hindi which is being referred to, I don't think that "Newoess" means one who makes false promises. In fact "Newoess" does not mean anything.
Very exciting hearing about all the porting being done to Dreamcast. We're right around the corner from having a solid GUI interface to this architecture. Then, with a little more work, we can move exciting games like Tux Racer to Dreamcast *nix. Who knows? Maybe it will be a good gaming platform too...
Doh... wait...
======================================
======================================
Writers get in shape by pumping irony.
Particularly one whose optimizer is any good.
Maybe you could get the syntactic analyzer generated in two days with a lot of caffeine, no sleep, and lex/yacc. That still leaves semantic analysis (more than two days; take it from someone who's been there) and code generation. Writing a working code generator from scratch in two days would be a miracle; writing a highly optimizing one from scratch would be flat out impossible.
For the love of God, you CAN'T open source a good sandwich!
Why not ? if you can open source a soft drink ?
Well... at least this is shorter than the previous versions. What I want to know is what this has to do with something that isn't even Unix.
/Brian
I thought it was to allow children to be directly interposed into an execution context for performance reasons rather than putting them through normal procedure calls?
/Brian
Uh... can you expect much out of a community whose favorite database is called MySQL :-)
/Brian
Why not? The Dreamcast is cheap and very well documented. It's a de facto open system.
/Brian
NewOS's name is funny. In Hindu, "New Oh Ess" or "Newoess" means "one who makes false promises."
Sort of funny. Like how CIPA (Children's Online Protection Act) means "pussy" in Swedish.
------------
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Tonight on Fox: Deadliest Executions Part XVII
The Amiga is not dead. It's just sleeping for a while.
The Amiga shall rise again!
OHHHHHHHHH Someone has an OS than runs nothing and does nothing. BUT it has all the buzzwords and none of the limitations of current OSes. BIG DEAL. ANYONE can write an OS that does nothing. Geez, you people get excited about anything.
This is a pet peeve of mine. Can't people be more descriptive of a product or technology than just calling it "New"? For instance, on a documentary about robotics they said that the current methodology for robotics, the one that calls for robots to learn on their own, is called "The New Robotics". That's its name. What the hell are they going to call it a hundred years from now? When you name something "New", are you telling the world that it won't be around a year from now? After all, it won't be new anymore in a year. Think of the Modernist art movement. It is a hundred years old now. Is it modern anymore? NO! It's OLD! It has a stupid name that doesn't accurately describe it!
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
Curious, this guy makes no mention of wanting any developer help. This reminds me of the guy making AtheOS. I am absolutely amazed at the ability for one developer to whip up something so quickly - within months. The coding talent and drive to create these small OSes is incredible. Considering much smaller applications easily have dozens of developers, the idea of creating an OS from scratch with multiprocessor and multithreading support is unbelievable. Perhaps they used some code or ideas from other open source kernels, but hey, that's what open source is all about.
Even if neither of these OSes take off, I admire their drive to focus this well as a solo developer.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Well, you could burn a boot CD, witch would contain all the neccisary files to "run" the system, and then you will indeed be running that OS (although a system without connectivity is hardly a system at all). Keep in mind that you can fit 650 to 700 MB on a CD-R, which is more than enough room to contain your kernel, X, apps, etc.
Or, if you want a more usefull system, you could tell the boot CD to access a NFS on your LAN via the DC's ethernet adapter.
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#nohup cat
Eh, another OS. Too many, if you ask me!
:-)
On the other hand...
It is absolutely great that they can even do this. Clearly it takes so much to make an OS work, and even more so to work well. It's really inspirational to "younger" developers interested in programming.
I once tried to write an OS for my PPC machine, based on a system called OpenOS and another, PowerOS.
Bombed horribly - it sucked.
The Idea: someone create a VERY simple OS... and let people build onto it. Not an open-source effort. But rather, they could "roll their own OS,' in essense, by following a tutorial, and see how it's done. I would feel SO proud to say, "I finally got threading written into my OS...."
So NewOS is my Hero of the Day.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Whats so difficult with using version numbers? NewOS v1.3, NewOS v1.4, etc...
But then again plan 9 never got very mainstream. Although it probably has a lot more to do with it being more of a research project than people not wanting to be early adopters and waiting for plan 10.
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
First, the Dreamcast is NOT obsolete. Hello! I STILL don't have a 64bit desktop! Do I need one? Of course not. But it would be cool. I run linux on my home computer because it's free and fun. I run minix on my 286 laptop because I can. I reboot windows at work because I have to. What you morons are missing is that OS's are fucking dead! Average Joe Creditcard does not give a rats ass what OS his box runs. All he wants is streaming porn, email, and well, thats about fucking it. This big ass box with cooling fans all a whir next to my feet is soon to be a relic. The average business/home user can accomplish all their computing needs with a dreamcast. Internet? yep. MP3? yep. Awesome lookin games? yep. (that work out of the box I might add.) DVD? not quite... But why the hell isn't there a vhs quality cd-rom movie medium? I mean, there is a damn market for it. Email? yep. Porn? yep. office apps? wouldn't be too big of a problem. To those of you who whine about good people not working on linux, are you retarded or something? I mean people work on linux cause they want to. This guy does newos cause he felt like it. Microsoft did windows to enhance shareholder approval of their value-added quality initiatives to rake in big fat sacks of cash. I'm more worried about brilliant coders being paid truckloads to implement "Planned Obsolesence". Shouldn't you?
Shift happens. Fire it up.
I think you are mistaking the Collective Unconscious with the unconscious effect that an archetype can have on a group. The Collective Unconscious is not a shared thought but a primordial vestige from the symbolic age of humans. The effect of an archetype on a group can really be seen in the Germans projection of the Wotan father figure upon Hitler. It is interesting to note that Hitler, like Wotan in Richard Wagner's Der Ring Des Niebelungen (Part IV Gotterdammerung), was the wounded ruler who ultimately lost his power. This same wounded ruler can be seen in Parzival, the grail legend/fisher king, although in this case the wounded ruler was healed.
The concepts of the Collective Unconscious and the Archetypes are very difficult to fully grasp. As further reading, I suggest you read "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" and the "Masks of God" series by Joseph Campbell. This will give you a better understanding of the foundation upon which the concept of the Collective Unconscious is postulated. You may also want to read the entire Collective Works but be forewarned that it takes up approximately 2 feet of horizontal shelf space and it will probably take a year to work your way through it.
Frylock: That's not a toy!
Master Shake: You say that about everything you own. You should own toys. They're fun.
This is not a good sign.
I'm doomed
;-)
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
*sigh* Another day, another partitiion on my hard drive.... what's that, now 5?
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
I have found that most people with only one system partition are those that are most surprised when they lose all their data due to a random disk formatting, they tend to be secretaries, businessmen, and those who find multiple partitions confusing.
:-)
Humorless sig goes here.
I sincerely hope you are joking or being sarcastic. Andrew Tanenbaum, Linus Torvalds, Kurt (the atheos guy whose last name I forgot), and many others have done _exactly_ that. Well, maybe not Linus, but still.
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All the "basics" to get you started on your own operating system.
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Garett
For the love of God, can't someone do something for fun?
Why do would someone do something for fun?
Yes! You're so right: my multi-partition strategy on my machines has saved my *ss numerous times. (Especially since backing up is not my strongest point). :-) I heared they have mountpoints in 2000 now too, so, perhaps even registry hacking is not needed anymore...
Actually, the people whom you talk about (secretaries, etc...) probably use a certain Remond OS. I can tell you that, when well deployed, it is not confusing for them. Consider this: theý know "My Documents" which should be where they store important data. So alter the registry and make it point to another partition. Done!
Okay, actually it's a tad more difficult with 2000 or NT4, but then, since they prolly are in a network you should use roaming profiles.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
astraljung wince is just an os you can use to develop for the dc you dont even need to use an os when developing for it i'm making a music player for the dc with absolutely no os just hardware libraries. the os just just provided on the cd.
yep, not many operating systems out there...
Bill Gates was asked to write MS-DOS for the IBM personal computers. Isn't that also about a 20 year timeframe? If it aint broke, don't try to fix it. If it is broke, replace it with NT.
However, and I know this has been brought up before, is the open source community sporeading itself too thin? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be several flavors of operating systems, but I think some of these folks should try focusing their energies on one project. One secure, stable, fully-featured product is more desirable than 20 that do different things fine and other things horribly.
You're missing the point. The coolest thing you can possibly do in geekworld is to write your own OS. This guy is just having FUN! He doesn't want to concentrate on the OS you want him to concentrate on. He wants to be creative and come up with his own thing.
"And like that
Please, save us all a headache now.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
hmm. looks like "High-performance TCP/IP stack" is a planned feature. i wonder if it does any sort of networking right now?
--saint----
Okay, I'm all for Open Source and sharing of ideas and all that, but this has gone too far. For the love of God, you CAN'T open source a good sandwich!
Where does it all stop? Why? WHYYYYYY?!?!?!
(sorry)
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
My vote would be "Noose" as in hangman's. That way you'd avoid a confusing conversation like this one:
Newbie: I just installed NewOS today!
L33t: You mean the new kernal release?
Newbie: NewOS. I installed NewOS.
L33t: Yes but which new OS? Windows XP? Win2k? OS X?
Newbie: NewOS.
L33t: You keep saying that but won't tell me.
Newbie: I am telling you. I installed NewOS.
L33t: Linux might seem like it's new but it's been around.
Newbie: No, NewOS!
L33t: Well at least we agree on one thing.
what we need is DivXCD ;-)
..Barny
Well there are so many closed and open source Operating systems arround what one to use?
Use one that you are comftable with. Dont just learn *nix because its cool. Do it because you want to do something useful with it. Learn to code? Learn unix because you want to not just to follow the others.
There are many quaility operating systems each one has there advantages and disadvantages.
Personally I use FreeBSD and windows on my desktop machines and also admin solaris and linux servers as well.
They all have advantages and disadvantages. Remeber use what you are comftable with.
On a plus note Unix is defently worth learning if you want to learn more about computing, how they function, etc...And is very useful if you want to do something that can be used in many places, for example if you create a script, it may be useful to others. Where as with windows there is a very small requirement to "script" or program at all.
This is just my ramblings...enjoy!
It is not *too* dificult to create your own opperating system. Many colleges even have a course (usually in a masters program) where you have to create your own OS. The diference between Linux and any other number of fledgling opperating systems is that Linus never stopped developement for it after he got it to work. He ported some gnu stuff to it and the ball just kept rolling. It will be interesting to see if any of these new fledgling OS's "keep the ball rolling".
I miss the Karma Whores.
Are you suggesting that open source OS's can't survive with competition? Poor little open source Linux saying, "Why can't you just leave me alone! Isn't it' hard enough for me to deal with Windoze and Solaris?" You've got to be kidding. I thought the Open Source movement was about individuals writing better software that thrives because it's better software.
- Sig this!
with all the real OS's we have, and all the failed head starts (atheos, gnu/hurd) this one is bound to be it!
don't get me wrong though... I think it's cool. Best of luck to him(them?)!
samrolken
Why a port to Sega Dreamcast? Doesn't it have its own OS already, in ROM or something?
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so i says to mable, i says
Uh.. not according to the comments here:
** Copyright 2001, Travis Geiselbrecht. All rights reserved.
** Distributed under the terms of the NewOS License.
*/
Now I've been poking around his Perforce repository, but can't find a copy if this "NewOS" License anywhere.
Ryan T. Sammartino
Ryan T. Sammartino
"Ancora imparo"
you know, one thing i'd like to do, when i'm retired and i have a cabin with a hammock overlooking the gulf of thailand, when it's too early for mai tais and too late for naked volleyball, is to sit down with a good laptop and start to develop a really cool OS.
ok, that's something we'd all like to do (possibly with the exception of developing the cool OS), but i'm thinking of something that is different to stuff that already exists; something that is a natural way for computers to work. i'm thinking of an OS where there is no compiler, something more like forth going on. something where, if you wanted, you could click right down to the basics. don't tell me that linux does just that, because it's still going through a compiler and that black box thing separates me from the workings of the OS just like windows or mac (or whatever) apis.
oops, cocktails with client then posting, bad mistake!
i don't quite get your point. are you saying bsd has a positive outlook or not?
:-p
My IP is 192.168.1.100 Hack it if you want.
Despite what many people seem to think, an OS is not an inherently complex thing.
As far as I can see, there are only two extremely difficult (read: time-consuming, tedious) things to do re something as familiar and well-defined as an OS: comply fully with someone else's standard, and tune an entirely original design (not borrowing the main character from a familiar system).
Making a unix-like OS is not much harder than making a compiler for a c-like language (I dunno about you, but I could do the latter in a couple of days). But then supplying every library routine and going and checking that you comply with the POSIX standard on every point would take forever (alone, that is).
The win32 thing is a hundred times harder than that, because it's a huge, poorly designed, inaccurately specified, buggy interface. It's painful enough to even use that the vast majority of windows programmers hide it behind some other tool. Recreating it perfectly, without access to the source, is an exercise in futility, far harder than making it in the first place.
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Great, another OS! I just can't get enough of 'em, I love all OS'! Go on!
To all those who say "no, you're stupid, instead of writing your own OS you should improve Linux" - Sorry guys, not everyone thinks Linux is the best OS ever. Some people want a modern OS (unix is 20 yrs old, you call that modern?), and if they don't have one, they'll write one. Period.
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how long it will be before the "NewOS is dying trolls" come out of the woodwork :)
This
Imagine: system interfaces described in IDL, seamless CORBA forwarding... That would be fun.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
I'm sold!
Microsoft out the window!
Linux out the window!
C'mon new OS... save me taht 75 bucks!
Isin't newOS the default folder name Microsoft Operating System Creator uses for a new project?
No, that would be "MyOS".
(Giveaway)
So, I've actually been running my own OS for MANY years now (it feels like it's been forever, actually).
Though I do say so myself, it seems to work quite well, once you get used to it.
In fact, I'd say that just about everybody must have had exposure to it in one form or another, at some stage in their lives.
I'd even suspect that most people have (in their own way) tried to take advantage of it, at least once, and maybe even several times.
I guess you'd all like to know what I've called it?
For reasons that seemed relevant at the time....
It's called
K OS
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
some shots wouldn't hurt 8)
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"I believe in karma. That means I can do bad things to people and assume they deserve it" - Dogbert
I see you caught someone this time. OK, I concede - if you have that kind of mind, then this should be counted as a victory for you...
43rd Law of Computing:
What does Linux do that UNIX System V doesn't?
Well, um, oh, er, be GPL'ed, not cost anything, have far more rapid bugfixes, not tie you down to any one company...nothing, really. I guess we'll just have to sit back and admire it's superiority... sorry Linus, you've jsut been beaten.
43rd Law of Computing:
By far one of the greatest things about open source is that anyone has the opportunity to go out and build whatever they want. This adds to the mix and to the overall quality of the products. However, and I know this has been brought up before, is the open source community sporeading itself too thin? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be several flavors of operating systems, but I think some of these folks should try focusing their energies on one project. One secure, stable, fully-featured product is more desirable than 20 that do different things fine and other things horribly. I'm not looking to get blasted with why having many different OSs do different things is good, because I know that. I'm just raising a question that seems to have faded from the open source community's mind.
----------What the Chiquita banana?
There's a course at my school (University of Waterloo - CS452 - the lab is the one that used to have the "All hope abandon, all ye who enter here" sign and the train in the noose in the window) and probably many others where you write an OS from scratch as a project. The code is written on a Solaris box and cross-compiled for Intel x86. The assignments involve building processes and multitasking, IPC (servers), various drivers (keyboard, serial, graphics), kernel/user services, etc., and it's a good idea to build a decent debugger. The final project involves controlling electric trains, through a pretty crappy interface (polling), and trying to make an interesting application that's robust enough to get around the train controller problems (and deal with things like evil TAs picking up trains and moving them). And of course students can add other features too, such as threading and pretty graphics.
You do get some help, such as a tftp based image loader (so no boot sector coding to worry about) and the loader puts the system into pmode before it calls the start routine, but then you're pretty much on your own with the Intel docs and some hardware spec sheets. It's only a regular four-month course (although the lab is pretty much never empty at any hour of the day or night during that time).
The most time consuming part of writing a "real" OS is standards compliance, as someone's already said, and writing all the drivers for all the different types of hardware out there (it's a lot easier when you know you have only one graphics card to worry about!) But it's not as if writing an OS was such a rare thing.
(Greets to all reading that have survived trains....)